Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Mister Fork on November 17, 2006, 03:04:53 PM
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I tried to land a Zeke last night with a damaged left gear from a combat collision. WWII SOP would of called for a gear up hook down landing. Since I was HOPING to land that way I was frustrated I HAD to land with damaged gear - right wheel came down only with hook.
What would of been a tail-first then belly-down landing with the hook grabbing - ended up being a landing on the right wheel, then dropping onto the left wing, and cartwheeling off to the left side of the carrier. Weeeeee
Can we please allow hooks down without gear?
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What happens is you lower gear, lower hook, then raise gear? does the hook stay down?
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
I tried to land a Zeke last night with a damaged left gear from a combat collision. WWII SOP would of called for a gear up hook down landing. Since I was HOPING to land that way I was frustrated I HAD to land with damaged gear - right wheel came down only with hook.
What would of been a tail-first then belly-down landing with the hook grabbing - ended up being a landing on the right wheel, then dropping onto the left wing, and cartwheeling off to the left side of the carrier. Weeeeee
Can we please allow hooks down without gear?
Any particular reason you didn't just leave the gear up? I find it
extremely difficult to believe you can't stop a zeke on a gear up CV landing.
I mean it's not like you were going to rearm that particular bird anyway.
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Gear, whats that?
Never use it to land.
Much more fun wheels up into a hanger on a vulched field and watching guys auger behind you.
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It should be an option if thats how it was done. Like others here I dont use gear or especially hooks after being catapulted backwards off the carrier once too often.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Gear, whats that?
Never use it to land.
Much more fun wheels up into a hanger on a vulched field and watching guys auger behind you.
you stop faster too :D :D :D
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Is the hook tied to the gear now?
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Were supposed to land?
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why not just belly land without the hook?
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I hate to do a 'me too' but, sorry, a gear up landing is nearly as short as a hook landing...
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On at least some planes (such as the F4U), you had to lower the gear before lowering the hook.
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Hooks are for girly men! I can get jug stopped before the last wire, back up, rearm, and take off agin
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Is the hook tied to the gear now?
Yes
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For you gametards, not landing is a non issue.
For us historical/realism nutters, the real maccoy is the deal. Having to land gear up - sure, if my right tip of the wing wasn't missing. Was hard enough just to keep it level. I was hoping to use the tailhook in case I fudged the landing (which I did) - tailhook never got a chance to catch. Throw in a moving carrier, enemy aircraft swarming around, and you have yourself a handful just to land.
I'm just surprised that HTC merged landing gear to the tailhook. To me, it's like merging the flaps to landing gear.
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Originally posted by TW9
why not just belly land without the hook?
I think the suggestion of belly landing without hook is sound; it is exactly what I thought of after reading the original post
Maybe the point to Mister Fork's concern is with historical accuracy rather than a solution that works within the dynamics of the game, since he mentioned the military operating procedure.
EDIT:
Mister Fork's post above this one did not exist at the time I wrote my response. So my suggested assumption about historical accuracy being his concern seems valid. Although there is some irony in his words, as his gear was damaged as the result of a collision, part of the game collision model which is far from realistic - (understood or otherwise.)
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
For us historical/realism nutters, the real maccoy is the deal.
I'm just surprised that HTC merged landing gear to the tailhook. To me, it's like merging the flaps to landing gear.
Here's how it is now, which is more realistic (at least for sure with regard to the F4U): you must lower gear, then you must lower the hook. What is changed isn't than the hook is automatic. What has changed is that you can no longer lower the hook without lowering the gear first. This is how it was in the F4U -- it is more realism, not less.
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Landing gear is overrated i never use it, whether im landing on a carrier,runway,ocean, or land. i foundt it easier and faster to just belly slide your plane on landing. if you want to rearm though i would hope you put your gear down.
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Originally posted by Brooke
Here's how it is now, which is more realistic (at least for sure with regard to the F4U): you must lower gear, then you must lower the hook. What is changed isn't than the hook is automatic. What has changed is that you can no longer lower the hook without lowering the gear first. This is how it was in the F4U -- it is more realism, not less.
Are you sure about that? I ask because I just examined the hydraulic schematic for the F4U and noticed that the tail hook operates via a separate hydraulic cylinder, independent of the landing gear hydraulic circuit. I saw no limit switch or isolator/slide valve that would disable the tail hook when the gear were up. As far as I can tell from the schematic, the pilot could operate the tail hook by simply moving the tail hook control lever to the down position.
Does anyone have the Pilot's Manual handy?
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Brooke
Here's how it is now, which is more realistic (at least for sure with regard to the F4U): you must lower gear, then you must lower the hook. What is changed isn't than the hook is automatic. What has changed is that you can no longer lower the hook without lowering the gear first. This is how it was in the F4U -- it is more realism, not less.
Do you have a reference for this, Brooke? Not saying it isn't true, but it would certainly be unusual. Hook extension could have been tied to tailwheel extension or doors, but main gear would be unusual.
Added: Oops, sorry, Widewing. Must have been posting same time.
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Widewing I just looked in my copy of Whistling Death.
It has 2 labeled pics of the cpit layout. There is a separate switch for the hook that is on the opposite side from the gear switch.
Bronk
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I recently got the pilot's manual for the F4U and the training videos (from zenoswarbirdvideos.com). They are very nifty! Zeno's has the manual and training videos for most US WWII aircraft. Here's the info from the manual:
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/f4uGearOperation.jpg)
I have no idea if arresting gear is operated this same way for other aircraft. I might soon know for the F6F (thanks also to Zeno's).
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Interesting find Brooke. It seems that part of the SOP is to have the gear down before lowering the hook. Seems like then my complaint is a moot point.
But I'm curious if it's the same for other carrier aircraft...
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Another interesting thing from that page of the manual is that the F4U has auto-retracting flaps when airspeed gets too high for the current setting. (Just noticed that passage.)
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
Interesting find Brooke. It seems that part of the SOP is to have the gear down before lowering the hook. Seems like then my complaint is a moot point.
But I'm curious if it's the same for other carrier aircraft...
Also from Zeno's, I should have the F6F, the TBM, and the SBD soon. I'll check how their arresting gear works as well and post here.
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Originally posted by Brooke
I recently got the pilot's manual for the F4U and the training videos (from zenoswarbirdvideos.com). They are very nifty! Zeno's has the manual and training videos for most US WWII aircraft. Here's the info from the manual:
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/f4uGearOperation.jpg)
I have no idea if arresting gear is operated this same way for other aircraft. I might soon know for the F6F (thanks also to Zeno's).
That explains why I couldn't find anything in the hydraulic schematic, it's a simple mechanical interlock.
Looking at the tail wheel design, I can see why they lock out the tail hook. If you over-ride the interlock, the tail hook cylinder will push the hook right through the tail wheel doors. Grumman used a "stinger" type hook than is extended, rather than was pushed down.
The F4U must have been the only USN aircraft of any vintage that tied tail hook position to gear position. Standard sequence has always been, "hook down, gear down, flaps down.
Thanks for looking up the answer.
My regards,
Widewing
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I like the zeno's stuff..always have received good quality from them.
There's also http://www.eflightmanuals.com
and http://www.rareaviation.com
Rare aviation has downloadable manuals and parts list. The only thing I would recommend is checking the size of the download before you buy it to make sure it's a good quality scan. I downloaded 4 things from them and one was at a kinda crappy resolution. I emailed them about it and never heard anything back about my inquiry on a remedy.
and on an off topic note - is anyone interested in trading manuals?
I've got several in digital format, but am always interested in sharing resources.
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Some Naval Fighters had fixed tailwheels. Others had independent hooks. The point being is that not all airplanes require the gear to be down for the hook to be down.
I think it needs to go back to independent operation on airplanes that historically had that capability...
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I checked the pilot's manual for the F6F, TBM, and SBD. On those (unlike the F4U), it does seem that the tail hook could be lowered before the gear, like Widewing talked about. At least for those planes, when discussing the hook, the manual doesn't say anything about gear needing to be down first.
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
ended up being a landing on the right wheel, then dropping onto the left wing, and cartwheeling off to the left side of the carrier. Weeeeee
:lol :rofl