Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Flayed1 on November 19, 2006, 02:18:09 PM
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Ok first off the HQ takes quite a while to get to with enough ord to kill it, at high enough alt to not get your butt shot off by 163's. Then after you kill it the NME can resup it wayyyyy to fast so it was almost pointless to hit in the first place but I was having thoughts with these small maps of making a Pre HQ bombing mission to kill troops all around the HQ making it harder to resup it... This though would requier over double the time of a normal HQ raid but we could do it with some dedicated guys....
Now we have LOTS of troops all over the bases (NOTE: I like all the new barracks) and it would now be next to impossible to kill all troops on every base without a 60 plane bomber mission of old MA biblical proportions... Boy those were fun :)
Flying hither and yon trying to get them all while being chased all over the map by 163's and such.
HQ needs to be fixed in some way.... At the very least it should take many more sup runs than it currently does to fix it...
Last night we took up about 6 flights or so of 17's to Nits HQ at 25K (We all know how long this takes) bombed it, killed 3 163's and 1 LA7, landed and a couple minuits later HQ was back up...
HQ is a fun target to hit but the way it is now it is just kinda dissapointing when take the time to do a good mission for nothing.
Just a request.. Thank you. :)
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Originally posted by Flayed1
HQ needs to be fixed in some way.... At the very least it should take many more sup runs than it currently does to fix it...
Last night we took up about 6 flights or so of 17's to Nits HQ at 25K (We all know how long this takes) bombed it, killed 3 163's and 1 LA7, landed and a couple minuits later HQ was back up...
HQ is a fun target to hit but the way it is now it is just kinda dissapointing when take the time to do a good mission for nothing.
Just a request.. Thank you. :)
I'm sorry but I just got to respond...
You organized a mission, flew to the target, encountered the NME, shot down some them, suffered some losses, and still were able to RTB. Sounds like a fun mission. Seriously. No sarcasm here. It seems that you were able to accomplish everything the game is about...interacting with other players on the opposing team, reaching a target/goal, etc.
However, you seem disappointed that you couldn't deprive the NME of dar. That somehow they did not suffer enough. Dar is what enables fights (especially dot dar). HiTech has stated as much in some other thread which I don't have the time to look for.
Not trying to bash you or start another typical "furballer vs toolshedder" flame war, but I just don't understand how a mission which involves some good fighting/flying/shooting/bombing is "nothing" just b/c the NME is not deprived of dar for an hour.
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But the entire point of the bomb run was to disable dar.... I don't fly my bombers to fight fighters, that is not what bombers are for, bombers are for blasting the NME strat to dust in order to deprive them of said strat.
HQ is one of the biggest bomber targets in game, I would assume that is why we have 163's by them to defend them.. Hiting the HQ gives your side a HUGE tactical advantage if you are trying to win the war but as it is that advantage only lasts for what, 10 miniuts? Not enough time to do squat war wise..
If we take the time to do a run like this, to acomplish a goal (other than shooting at the targets with wings) it seems only fair that it should take the NME a similar amout of time to undo the damage we spent all that time to inflict. I'm not after the old way the HQ was, that was way to far on the other end of things. It sould be repairable but I think it should take a bit longer than it does now. The way it is, it's just kinda a pointless target siting by a 163 base.
I agree that this should not get into the Furballer vs strat player arguement but that it seems is the way you are looking at it. You seem to think that flying on a long mission and shooting at a few planes should be enough to keep us happy and while this is a bit of fun it is not enough for those of us that like a bit more depth to the game.
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HQ is one of the biggest bomber targets in game, I would assume that is why we have 163's by them to defend them.. Hiting the HQ gives your side a HUGE tactical advantage if you are trying to win the war but as it is that advantage only lasts for what, 10 miniuts? Not enough time to do squat war wise..
Doesn't wacking the "C"ities first, and then wacking HQ, cause dar to be down longer than 10 minutes ?
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The whole point to an HQ run is to take it down so the raiders can land and use the advantage to try to take some territory while it's down. These same players are not the ones who are likely to take it down and auger/bail/ditch so they can re-up right away.
Whether the City is down or not doesn't matter if troops are available nearby. Each C-47 carries 15 minutes worth of supplies so it's supposed to takes 12 Goon runs to resupply. Toss in strat resupply (up to 15 minute rebuild) every 10 minutes to arrive at the down time.
Depending only on the strat, if the City is dead it takes up to 6 hours for the HQ to rebuild but when will that happen.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
HQ is one of the biggest bomber targets in game, I would assume that is why we have 163's by them to defend them.. Hiting the HQ gives your side a HUGE tactical advantage if you are trying to win the war but as it is that advantage only lasts for what, 10 miniuts? Not enough time to do squat war wise..
Doesn't wacking the "C"ities first, and then wacking HQ, cause dar to be down longer than 10 minutes ?
Well yeah, but now wtih the increased ack and barracks at fields its even easier to resupply it, as chances are the fields aren't porked.
I think this is the gist of the original post.
Would also hope the HT looks at barracks downtime now. If there is at least double the amount of barracks on a field, once porked they should stay down for a reciprocal time.
It should also take more to resupply fields also.
Recent patch has turned out to be a double edged sword -
For a country in the bucket it is now a lot harder if not impossible for them to stop the steamroll.
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If I remember correctly, there is only so much C-47s with field supplies can do ... the rest is by resupply train which in turn is supplied by the cities.
So, if the cities are obliterated and THEN HQ is demolished, dar can be down for quite some time.
If the cities are all 100% and HQ is taken down, between C-47 resupply and train resupply ... yes ... dar will be back up before you can land.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
If I remember correctly, there is only so much C-47s with field supplies can do ... the rest is by resupply train which in turn is supplied by the cities.
I haven't seen that but it would explain some things. Where can we find this information?
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Well yeah, but now wtih the increased ack and barracks at fields its even easier to resupply it, as chances are the fields aren't porked.
Like I said above, the C-47 resupply is not the major link to getting HQ back up ... it can only reduce the down time to a certain extent and then all supplies after that are for naught ... resupply trains are the major resupply for HQ.
The real "strat" key here is taking cities out first and then drop HQ.
Recent patch has turned out to be a double edged sword -
For a country in the bucket it is now a lot harder if not impossible for them to stop the steamroll.
Not from where I was sitting last night. In the MW, the Bish were in the bucket and Rooks took a mainland base right next to HQ and wacked the crap out of it and then tried to take another nearby base.
It was the recent changes that gave the Bish the opportunity to get out of the "bucket" by repelling the attack and then provide an offensive opportunity to get the mainland back.
I love these new changes.
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Your right C-47 / M3 aren't the major resupplier, but around 8 loads brings an HQ straight back up.
Few weeks back Rooks mounted a huge attack on our HQ, we had M3's waiting by the time they hit. Less than 5 mins later HQ was back up.
As I said Slap it's a double edged sword, it didn't help the Rooks today, it made things worse.
All our fields apart from 1 or 2 were fully up all along the Rook front.
Don't get me wrong Slap, changes aren't bad, but needed to be done in conjunction with a lot of others on the overall strat system.
Considering we waited 5+ months for this patch, I was expecting a lot more, and some of the bugs it has introduced are just ridiculous.
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Your right C-47 / M3 aren't the major resupplier, but around 8 loads brings an HQ straight back up.
Not if the cities are destroyed first ... again ... thats the key ... wacking HQ without first taking out the cities is a waste of time ... like Flayed said.
Flayed should have had another wing that coordinated an attack on cities with the correct timing of his wing destroying HQ, then it would have been worth it.
As I said Slap it's a double edged sword, it didn't help the Rooks today, it made things worse.
All our fields apart from 1 or 2 were fully up all along the Rook front.
Not trying to be difficult here Kev ... but I just don't understand your point ... I am old ya know.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Your right C-47 / M3 aren't the major resupplier, but around 8 loads brings an HQ straight back up.
Not if the cities are destroyed first ... again ... thats the key ... wacking HQ without first taking out the cities is a waste of time ... like Flayed said.
Flayed should have had another wing that coordinated an attack on cities with the correct timing of his wing destroying HQ, then it would have been worth it.
As I said Slap it's a double edged sword, it didn't help the Rooks today, it made things worse.
All our fields apart from 1 or 2 were fully up all along the Rook front.
Not trying to be difficult here Kev ... but I just don't understand your point ... I am old ya know.
Lol OK I'll spell it out.
Because of the fact all the bases we needed to use to attack were fully up it was a lot easier to reset the Rooks today.
Prior they probably would have been porked.
Good for us yup, not so good for the Rooks.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Lol OK I'll spell it out.
Because of the fact all the bases we needed to use to attack were fully up it was a lot easier to reset the Rooks today.
Prior they probably would have been porked.
Good for us yup, not so good for the Rooks.
:rolleyes: ... DOH !!! ... yes ... the sword is double-edged ... but that makes it more dangerous and intriguely challenging.
Thanks for spelling it out ... :D
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Originally posted by Flayed1
Hiting the HQ gives your side a HUGE tactical advantage if you are trying to win the war but as it is that advantage only lasts for what, 10 miniuts? Not enough time to do squat war wise..
I agree that this should not get into the Furballer vs strat player arguement but that it seems is the way you are looking at it. You seem to think that flying on a long mission and shooting at a few planes should be enough to keep us happy and while this is a bit of fun it is not enough for those of us that like a bit more depth to the game.
Hitting a single building and wiping out a country's entire dar is one of the 'gamiest' aspects in AH2. Central commands are deep underground and virtually immune to such a strike. But I realize that this is a game, and not a real war.
In our game, hits on HQ are usually only achieved when one side is already at a disadvantage (numbers imbalance, or small territory). When dar goes out, players start logging, or going to other arenas. So yes, there is a tactical advantage, but also, the numerical advantage is just further exacerbated.
In all honesty, if you had a switch which would turn off the NMEs dar, would you use it? I wouldn't. It seriously is one of those things I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy (or chess piece).
Universal loss of dar destroys game play (for all types, I believe) and is unrealistic.
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You get a few guys over HQ, and you manage to get enough ord on the thing, and radar goes down. The bad guys get a few guys over HQ, and they manage to get enough supplies on the thing, and radar comes back up. I guess I'm not seeing the problem.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
If I remember correctly, there is only so much C-47s with field supplies can do ... the rest is by resupply train which in turn is supplied by the cities.
So, if the cities are obliterated and THEN HQ is demolished, dar can be down for quite some time.
If the cities are all 100% and HQ is taken down, between C-47 resupply and train resupply ... yes ... dar will be back up before you can land.
Sorry but you are incorrect.
If I remember correctly, there is only so much C-47s with field supplies can do
If HQ is hit and the City is flat HQ will stay down longer than usual providing it's NOT resupplied. However, each box of sups takes 15 min of the 2 hour regain time. 8 boxes and dars up. No boxes and dar stays down until the trains do their thing. Sups brings dar up without the use of trains.
The point is there are many more barracks to be destroyed if you want to take the RESUPPLY OPTION AWAY.
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edit: came here too late lol
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=192122
HQ should be like it was in the old days... damage in 1/4 steps. but it should be a harder target.
the issue kev pointed out is basicaly the same as the fuel arguement back in 2003/04. If your side was getting bashed up silly by a side.... you stalled the front by killing fuel (in 2003/04) or by killing troops (now).
but now, theres tons of troop barracks, and they are spread so thin. plus the ack is really hard (ack is at a good level now, that isnt really the issue)
hitech did TWO things. they upped AAA (a good thing) which made it harder to pork... but we also have over quadrupled the amount of barracks, again harder to pork. a double wammy and means you cannot stop the horde taking your bases if you are stuck in a rut.
I agree with maybe having more barracks on the base, but they shouldnt be so randomly spread out. something like those CT screenshots would be cool:
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/superfly/afield1.jpg)
2 or 3 clumps of barracks, but LOTS of them. making it hard for a single fighter to kill them all.
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That is the point I was trying to make LYNX thank you for clearing that up..
Our bomb run was on the country that had the most territory and it was a long flight.. But after we bombed HQ it only takes 8 guys in a lil goon mission about 8 to 10 minuits to get the HQ back up befor the bomber guys can even land.
Yes kamilyun I have seen the same thing also when one country is geting pounded but in this case we hit the other big country, Rooks were already getting pounded so we figured hiting nits was the better way to go. Oh and arena #'s were even at this point also. Nits even had a base a sector away from HQ with dar up that would have shown us coming, so if they couldn't yank themselvs away from trying to roll rooks to deal with us well thats their problem, they had warning.
In a situation like this where we wern't ganging on the underdog and hiting an = opponant it is just frustrating to have all the time we spent just getting to the target mean nothing or next to it.
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Flayed1,
Simple solution for you, take down the Knights HQ. We are too stupid to organize a goon resupply mission to bring it back up quickly!!!!!! :)
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Originally posted by LYNX
Sorry but you are incorrect.
If I remember correctly, there is only so much C-47s with field supplies can do
If HQ is hit and the City is flat HQ will stay down longer than usual providing it's NOT resupplied. However, each box of sups takes 15 min of the 2 hour regain time. 8 boxes and dars up. No boxes and dar stays down until the trains do their thing. Sups brings dar up without the use of trains.
The point is there are many more barracks to be destroyed if you want to take the RESUPPLY OPTION AWAY.
You are right ... but there is something that we were missing or forgot.
HT did make a change awhile back ...
(1) With radar 100% down 8 goons will always fix it regardless of city status.
(2) Partially damaged HQ will repair only with trains, the speed of which depends on city status.
So a partially damaged HQ is key ... if combined with the destruction of the cities, radar will be down for awhile.
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wow... this strat stuff is so complex and realistic I will never understand it.
Perhaps we could have a magic spell thingie to protect or kill all the radar for an entire country? It would like put a spell on the radar..
Or maybe we don't need to kill or protect dar but only need one princess to cast a spell of invisibility on our warriors so that they can kill the outhouses of the elves in the other countries by sneaking in amoungst them invisibly......once all the elves are constipated our king will rule over the land and.....
The whole mess is reset to start all over. again... and.... again.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
wow... this strat stuff is so complex and realistic I will never understand it.
:rofl
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Yes Lazs we know we know it is to complex of a subject for you.. You better just go back to flying your fighter in lil circles. ;)
Slap a partially damaged HQ will have no ill effect at all other than the HQ is softer for a bit in the event of another bomb run...
HQ used to go part way down and you would lose parts of dar operation and you could not repair it.. This was stupid and exploited way to often.. I think HQ should always be resuplyable but it should just take more to fix it than currently.
I would like to see the incremental damage come back for HQ but only if it was made fixable after damage.
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dunderegg.. I did figure out who the princess was tho.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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HT, could you please look at fixing the way planes die. I shot down a plane last night and it just blew up. Can't you fix it to where the explosion lasts longer and I hear screams of "help me" and stuff! And make it to where the guy I shot down can't up a plane for at least 15 minutes after he towers! As it is right now, he can just up another plane and keep fighting! :aok :D :noid
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Originally posted by SkyRock
HT, could you please look at fixing the way planes die. I shot down a plane last night and it just blew up. Can't you fix it to where the explosion lasts longer and I hear screams of "help me" and stuff! And make it to where the guy I shot down can't up a plane for at least 15 minutes after he towers! As it is right now, he can just up another plane and keep fighting! :aok :D :noid
Yeah! As it is right now, we can't kill everything, and what we can kill doesn't suffer nearly enough!
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Ohhh look the thread griefers are up in force... and ohhh look Lazs is back to name calling..... again. Lazs I heard you were an older guy, for an older guy you do a lot of childish thing. :lol
Why don't you go Hijack some other thread unless you have somehting intellegent to post.. But we all know you don't :)
Dosn't really matter my point has been made and HT will probably scan through this thread and if he agrees something will be changed at some future date, if he dosn't it will remain how it is.....
to all who were actually consructive to the thread I'm done. :)
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I think that what I posted was very relevant to the thread and got my point across well. I am sorry that you can't see it.
I did like the one about the guys not suffering enough when we shoot em down.. why aren't you angry about that one?
I would go further tho... there should be a shock sent through the mouse of every player flying with one when we shoot down a suicide fluff clump.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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See my "Improving Gameplay " thread in the Wishlist forum for my opinion.
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Originally posted by Flayed1
That is the point I was trying to make LYNX thank you for clearing that up..
Our bomb run was on the country that had the most territory and it was a long flight.. But after we bombed HQ it only takes 8 guys in a lil goon mission about 8 to 10 minuits to get the HQ back up befor the bomber guys can even land.
Yes kamilyun I have seen the same thing also when one country is geting pounded but in this case we hit the other big country, Rooks were already getting pounded so we figured hiting nits was the better way to go. Oh and arena #'s were even at this point also. Nits even had a base a sector away from HQ with dar up that would have shown us coming, so if they couldn't yank themselvs away from trying to roll rooks to deal with us well thats their problem, they had warning.
In a situation like this where we wern't ganging on the underdog and hiting an = opponant it is just frustrating to have all the time we spent just getting to the target mean nothing or next to it.
i saw this mission upping from i think it was A11 off rook mainland... i at first thought it was a horde ib to the P14 area that we was rather active in. so i created a mission to up from CV, to hunt and kill you lot. However 3 people joined (me, and 2 squad mates). So we went around hunting and killing the CV, but while doing all this i totally missed the fact that the large darbar DIDNT get to the P14 area... simply because we was doing SBD or TBM missions. As soon as someone mentioned it we uped from a61, but by then it was waaaaaaay too late. But we had fun, and thats all that matters.
While it was our HQ, i really cannot understand WHY it can be fixed faster than it took you guys to turn around and head to home.... its just stupid.