Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Chairboy on November 20, 2006, 11:40:36 AM
-
I read about something pretty crummy today:
http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/epilepsyusa/beloungea.cfm
This person has epilepsy and was tasered, arrested, and commited to a psychiatric institution because of a seizure he had. He had a medic-alert bracelet that described his condition, but that wasn't read. I'm most troubled by the fact that it took 3 weeks for him to be released. These guys have it pretty tough, I had no idea that this could happen.
-
I thought this thread was going to be about Howard Dean....:confused:
-
strong words from a guy who lives inside 50nm from the One Flew Over the Cuckoo Nest hospital :noid :noid :furious :furious
-
This article is complete rhetoric. The officers who responded are not trained doctors, or Jedi masters with the ability to look at someone acting nutty and just "know" wtf is wrong...
All they know is a citizen reported suspecious activity, upon arrival they were swung at by an unresponsive & disoriented person. They dont know hes a nice unarmed guy with Epilepsy having a seizure, he could be a violent gorp, or on drugs. When some guy is not responding AND starts flailing his arms around... what are the officers supposed to do?
I'd have tazed him too without blinking an eye.
Also I have seen medic alert bracelets that people have worn for so long, the paint, or ink, on the raised letters fades and is hard to read. There's no standard for these, pharmacies sell cheap ones off the shelf... but there are also high quality ones that never fade, we dont know which he had.
There's also a chance his bracelet was booked in with his property, non sworn (civilian) jailers are infamous for that, either way they need to verify his medical condition beyond what a $3 bracelet says, drug addicts wear them thinking it will protect them from arrest (ghetto myth)
"Mr. Beloungea was unresponsive to police direction, the bag he was carrying was kicked by police from his hand, and when he flailed his arms involuntarily, he was tasered, sending 50,000 volts of electricity through his body (risking serious injury or death); hit with a police baton; threatened at gunpoint; and handcuffed behind his back. (The handcuffing itself is dangerous for persons experiencing a seizure, as it can lead to further seizure-related agitation and struggling, possibly causing asphyxiation or even cardiac arrest.)"
lol..this dramatic paragraph says he was arrested in typical fashon for someone who "flails" at the po-lice... yawn.
-
Y'ever see that episode of COPs where this one guy is not pulling over even though he has like six cruisers with lights on and sirens blaring following him. Its a slow speed chase, like 5 mph....finally the guy bumps into something and comes to a stop. Within seconds there are like 15 occifers pulling the poor SOB out of the smashed in drivers side corner window and the COPs are commencing to doing a massive pig piling the poor guy. Kicking and beating the snot out of this guy and he isnt even struggling back. He is unconscious suffering from diabetic shock. THe funny part is when one of the cops is attempting to cuff the guy and finds a medic alert bracelett stating he is a diabetic. Man, those cops were a funny bunch to watch as they got up dusted themselves off and commenced to looking about as innocent as a grandma in the front pew on church day.
-
Everybody, not just cops, needs to be educated about Epilepsy. I once saw 50 + college students standing in a ring around a seizing epileptic - watching him die - because he didn't have an airway.
-
police are only human. humans F-up alot.
-
We had a guy at work that was prone to gran maul (not sure of spelling) seizures.
All he told us to do if he started having one was walking away and let him go through it.
-
Originally posted by Gunthr
Everybody, not just cops, needs to be educated about Epilepsy. I once saw 50 + college students standing in a ring around a seizing epileptic - watching him die - because he didn't have an airway.
We had training on Epilepsy, diabetics, down syndrome, paranoid schizophrenia, alternative lifestyles, ASL training, prosthetics, depression... you fuggn name it, everything under the sun we got a lectured and tested on. At the end of the day its a person wearing the color of authority making a judgement call.. and nobody gets it right 100% no matter how many lectures.
Epilepsy is one of those medical conditions the dirt bag community, junkies, hypes, crackheads, have perverted for their own leverage. They think wearing a bracelet, feigning a seizure or claiming to have Epilepsy will keep them from getting arrested... and sometimes it works. The street people know which arrests cause the most hassle & paperwork, epilepsy is one of them. They cant be booked into GP, must be seen by an MD, then booked into one facility known as the "13th floor" at County USC. Its a giant PITA for some agencies.
-
I don't think there's any way to avoid being arrested in 100% of the cases because stuff happens. I'm really more flummoxed by the 3 weeks it took to process him out.
The arrest is bad enough, the 3 week detention in a criminal psychiatric institution is just apalling.
-
Originally posted by Gunthr
Everybody, not just cops, needs to be educated about Epilepsy. I once saw 50 + college students standing in a ring around a seizing epileptic - watching him die - because he didn't have an airway.
Best thing you can do for someone who has a seizure, is to let it run its course (but call 911, it's a requirement that they get seen by a neurologist). If he didn't have an airway, there was nothing any non-EMT or medic could have done, anyway.
People with epilipsy must be seizure free for at least 2 years before being allowed to drive again, in some states
-
I've heard that the whole "stop them from swallowing their tongue!" thing is a dangerous urban legend, just as an FYI for anyone who might not have gotten the bulletin.
-
I once saw 50 + college students standing in a ring around a seizing epileptic - watching him die - because he didn't have an airway.
That sounds like typical college student to me. Helping someone who is dieing, is not "what we want to do". I think a police officer would have reacted a little different. And no, probably wouldn't have tased him either. But then again, there are many times when someone needs some serious help and the group, sheep mentality, everyone just stands there and watches without doing anything.
Out of curiosity, has anyone who is not an officer ever posted in this forum somthing that an officer did that was good? There is always a lot of negativity and bashing, but what about the good things?
-
Originally posted by M36
Out of curiosity, has anyone who is not an officer ever posted in this forum somthing that an officer did that was good? There is always a lot of negativity and bashing, but what about the good things?
well offhand i can think of three times i wasn't arrested for possession of wacky weed. :lol
-
Originally posted by M36
Out of curiosity, has anyone who is not an officer ever posted in this forum somthing that an officer did that was good? There is always a lot of negativity and bashing, but what about the good things?
At least they're not screaming for stricter definitions of police brutality and pushing for a higher rate of conviction on cops who've overstepped their boundaries in the line of duty.
A plain-clothes cop in Delaware once helped me push my Tahoe to the side of the road after its engine died. It was very nice of him, especially in the dead of winter. Other than that, my only run-ins with police have involved traffic tickets, and as much as know fines are necessary, I can't say it made me feel all warm in fuzzy inside to get them.
-
When I was in college in Hawaii I saw a homeless man fall into a seizure while crossing a street. He was thrashing his head on the pavement and scraping it up and bleeding. I stuffed my coat under his bloodied head to keep it from getting worse; it helped. I’d hope that someone would do that for me or a loved one if we were in that situation.
-
If he didn't have an airway, there was nothing any non-EMT or medic could have done, anyway.
All anybody had to do was tilt the poor guy's head back. He went from cyanotic to pink once that was done. Anyone could have done it.
-
Originally posted by Gunthr
All anybody had to do was tilt the poor guy's head back. He went from cyanotic to pink once that was done. Anyone could have done it.
You can't force his head back or his jaw open during the seizure. You have to stay clear and wait for the erratic and violent movements to stop. Don't try to block his flailing arms or legs neither, both of you can be injured by trying so.
-
You can't force his head back or his jaw open during the seizure. You have to stay clear and wait for the erratic and violent movements to stop. Don't try to block his flailing arms or legs neither, both of you can be injured by trying so. -DeSelys
You need to monitor the airway during seizures. If there is an airway present, you don't have to do anything - providing the immediate environment is safe. If there is no airway, you need to help the victim right away. It is as easy as tilting the head back.
EMERGENCY FIRST-AID TREATMENT
* Protect the person from injury. Clear the area of furniture or other objects that may cause injury from falls during the seizure.
* Do not attempt to force a hard object (such as a spoon, or a tongue depressor, etc.) between the teeth. You can cause more damage than you can prevent by doing this!
* Do not attempt to restrain or hold the person down during the seizure.
* Protect the person from inhaling vomit or mucus. Turn the person to the side if vomiting occurs. Keep the person on his or her side while sleeping after the seizure is over.
* If the person having a seizure turns blue or stops breathing, try to position the head to prevent the tongue from obstructing the airway. Breathing usually starts on its own once the seizure is over.
* CPR or mouth-to-mouth breathing is rarely needed after seizures and cannot be performed during the seizure.
* Repeated or prolonged seizures without regaining consciousness or returning to normal behavior between them (status epilepticus) may cause severe lack of oxygen in the body. This an emergency situation requiring immediate professional assistance!
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000695.htm
-
Originally posted by Gunthr
...
* Do not attempt to force a hard object (such as a spoon, or a tongue depressor, etc.) between the teeth. You can cause more damage than you can prevent by doing this!
* Do not attempt to restrain or hold the person down during the seizure.
* Protect the person from inhaling vomit or mucus. Turn the person to the side if vomiting occurs. Keep the person on his or her side while sleeping after the seizure is over. +++
* If the person having a seizure turns blue or stops breathing, try to position the head to prevent the tongue from obstructing the airway. Breathing usually starts on its own once the seizure is over. +++
* CPR or mouth-to-mouth breathing is rarely needed after seizures and cannot be performed during the seizure.
...
+++ This is nicely said but in most cases you just CAN'T do anything during the grand mal except making room around the person (who is on the ground trashing and flailing...). You have to wait for the seizures to stop.
Only trained people will be able to spot the onset of a grand mal and force something between the teeth BEFORE the seizure starts.
-
In every case in which a seizure victim is not breathing, an attempt must be made to give them an airway.
Most often a very simple repositioning of the head is all that is necessary.
-
Are you first-aid trained, Gunthr? There is no 'very simple' repositioning of the head during a grand mal seizure because of the violent jerking motions.
The best way is to wait that it ends (normal end of the seizure or victim passing out by lack of oxygen) and then immediatly check airways and provide air and CPR if needed.
-
If the patient appears to be not breathing, repositioning of the head is fine and should be done. Its not the perfect solution but it is the proper thing to do. If they are having full body seizures, there is a risk of getting injured so use common sense. Something else to keep in mind is why are they seizing? Is it a condition or is it from an injury? If the patient fell and had suffered a head injury there is also the risk of a c-spine injury. Keep that in mind before trying to move the person.
Standard procedure is to remove items from around the patient to prevent them from injuring themselves and wait for fire/ems or first responders to arrive. Doing things like what eskimo stated are good common sense. That goes along way in situations like that.
FYI, no one should force anything in a seizure patients mouth. Before or during the seizure. No one wants a mouth full of broken teeth.
-
I'm trained, deSelys.
-
Originally posted by Gunthr
I'm trained, deSelys.
Color me curious. How on earth do you simply tilt the head back on a person going through a seizure? (I have never witnessed a seizure, but aren't head and neck movements common?)
-
Originally posted by majic
Color me curious. How on earth do you simply tilt the head back on a person going through a seizure? (I have never witnessed a seizure, but aren't head and neck movements common?)
Tilting the head back is not going to be effective 100% of the time in a seizure patient obviously. But if you can, do it if its needed. Or the best you can get done.
-
Perfect is the enemy of good enough. He's saying that if you _can_ open an airway where one is closed and you can do it without breaking their teeth, go for it.
-
With a generalized tonic-clonic seizure (the most common type) the patient usually stops breathing during the tonic (first) phase of the seizure because of the sustained tonic contractions of all muscles, including the chest and diaphragm. They don't need CPR and they don't need anything placed in their mouth. It's anatomically impossible for a patient to "swallow their tongue." Breathing typically resumes after the seizure.
For people with epilepsy (the most common cause of seizures) you don't need to call 911 unless the seizure has not stopped within 5 minutes. People with epilepsy don't need to go to the hospital after every seizure
-
Originally posted by myelo
For people with epilepsy (the most common cause of seizures) you don't need to call 911 unless the seizure has not stopped within 5 minutes. People with epilepsy don't need to go to the hospital after every seizure
With bystanders, how would they know for sure?
-
Originally posted by myelo
People with epilepsy don't need to go to the hospital after every seizure
In Minnesota, yes, they do.
-
Apparently not epilepsy but similar convulsions from head injury my son and I saw years ago at a Virginia Beach skate park. A young skateboarder was doing some routine stuff when he fell smack on his head.
He was out for a little bit, and then while friends were trying to help him, started screaming and flailing and throwing the darndest fit you've ever seen. Utterly out of control. About eight guys finally subdued him just in time for the ambulance.
Scary and sad. Dunno what happened to him. He seemed so athletic before the fall and so powerful when he regained consciousness that presumably he recovered.
-
Originally posted by Halo
He was out for a little bit, and then while friends were trying to help him, started screaming and flailing and throwing the darndest fit you've ever seen.
Ive seen them growl, scream ,and bite after suffering a good blow to the head. Thank God for sedatives.:D
-
Originally posted by john9001
well offhand i can think of three times i wasn't arrested for possession of wacky weed. :lol
I can tell you about the Sherriffs officer I used to get wacky weed from ;)
Now there was a man with a racket
-
Originally posted by myelo
With a generalized tonic-clonic seizure (the most common type) the patient usually stops breathing during the tonic (first) phase of the seizure because of the sustained tonic contractions of all muscles, including the chest and diaphragm. They don't need CPR and they don't need anything placed in their mouth. It's anatomically impossible for a patient to "swallow their tongue." Breathing typically resumes after the seizure.
For people with epilepsy (the most common cause of seizures) you don't need to call 911 unless the seizure has not stopped within 5 minutes. People with epilepsy don't need to go to the hospital after every seizure
Damn. I've been keeping a sledgehammer for people like this in my truck.
-
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I can tell you about the Sherriffs officer I used to get wacky weed from ;)
Now there was a man with a racket
Had a room mate in Chicago that used to get his from Chicagos finest ;)
Was odd to see the cruiser pull up in front of the appartment.
-
Originally posted by myelo
People with epilepsy don't need to go to the hospital after every seizure
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
In Minnesota, yes, they do.
You're either misinformed or misunderstood what I said.