Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: aqhawasi on November 20, 2006, 08:21:10 PM
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I am not sure if this should go to the Wishlist section, or stay here; however, I just wanted to provide some of my thoughts on how to make this game more enjoyable for the new players, and what I think about the new patch.
I've noticed an influx of new players, and the reason I've noticed is because a) Find some guy flying in a straight line, get on his six, he wont move, shoot him down. Repeat 4 times. b) Find the same guy, or similar, tries to evade, but since he/she cant fly, goes into an uncontrollable spin, dies. c) Starts shooting once i start shooting him, even when I am on his six o'clock. d) Starts shooting at me from 1500 yds out. e) combinations.
I would very much like this new people to succeed, but I think that to start off, the flight model would be a bit too much for them. AW3 used to have a separate arena, sort of like the training Arena, but with "relaxed" flight model settings. The idea was that new people could go there to get some of the basics going, and then progress from there. It definitely helped me out a lot, and was able to move to "Full Realism" within a matter of short weeks. Also, unlike our TA, this arena was essentially a normal map, with combat situations going all around, so not only did it give new people a chance to get comfortable, you could also do so while shooting at real enemies. Going to the TA to learn, when nobody else is flying is not very enticing. Anyway, my point is, if HT wants to keep the new people playing this game longer and becoming long term loyal players, perhaps having a separate arena for them where they can engage in combat with people of similar skills (not full realism) until they are ready can go a long way. I know it did for me with AW3.
Finally, regarding the new patch, I am surprised the graphics tax my system so much. I have an NVidia 7900GTX, 256MB video RAM, 3GB system RAM, dual core AMD Athlon 4200, and had to drop back to 512 in order to eliminate some of the stuttering. That said, dont think I've lost much visually. I do like the new ack. I think it is more realistic and encourages more team work and coordination. Vulching has definitely decreased, which is a huge plus. At least gives you a chance to get off the runway.
I wasnt around for very long before the MA became several arenas; however, I think it was a good idea. Provides choice for some who would rather fly the older planes without thinking about 4 Las and 6 Nikis bouncing on your stuka/P40/... at one time. Also provides a place for those who would enjoy smaller overall numbers, and still provides a place for those who like to fight in or against hordes, such as in at least one of the LW arenas. The only thing I am not a big fan of, at least not yet, is that big square land-only map thingie.
Anyway, HT, if you read this, hope you provide those new users with a home where they can get some quick wins and not quit due to mere frustration of being bounced by a horde of more experience players at any time. I think it could help retention (not even sure if you have retention problems, but hey). On the new stuff, great job. Really enjoy the game, wish the new graphs werent so taxing.
Regards,
peru
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The problem with a "Relaxed Realism" arena is that a SIGNIFICANT number of players would go there only to take advantage of the EZ mode settings to horde, vulch and cherrypick the newbies, and remove them from the regular arenas.
Then again, maybe that's NOT such a bad idea...
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Yes; however, I found that people flying the relaxed realism arena will be motivated enough to go and fly against the more experienced people and put their skills to the test. Most newbies will not want to stay in that arena for long. Everyone wants to play in the major leagues, no matter what they say. Would you stay in the CFL if you could move to the NFL?
Regarding the people who would go to the relaxed realism arena to pick on people, I guess you cant really stop that. AW3 had some sort of system and/or check to stop this, but I think it was mostly honor based. Perhaps if your kills, etc. dont count towards your "official" score, it would deter most people from going there to vulch and cherry pick. Seems like score drives the vulching, HOing, cherry picking crowd, but I wont go there since this post is not about that.
Peru
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u have to understand that the acm skill level has diminished significantly over the past few years, mostly due to group play when engaging a con, most fights you will be jumped by more than one or you will be with a pack doing the same, a relaxed realism will only further seperate the widening gap of talent. imo
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Yes and No. You will always get those players who are only desperate for kills, and can only do so while flying an ubber plane, with lots of friendlies around, and only a few enemies around so that their SA only goes as far as finding the next target they will be chasing with 5 other Las. Then, you will also get those players who truly want to learn and master the art of flying one of these planes. It would be good, for the whole of us, to retain those people. The reality is, when you join the game, you are fired up, and you want to get on to the thick of it. Shoot at something straight off the bat. That is true with every new game, toy, car, woman, etc. Then, as the initial excitement fades away, you want to get to know the finer details. An area where you could go do this, would be fantastic. The TA is not exactly enticing, as you can only follow a friendly or your shadow for so long before it becomes boring. It would be nice to engage in combat. So, even if it is still full realism, an arena where you could go and avoid people who are just hungry for kills to pad their scores, and/or take bases, would be nice. you can do the whole lot, but things wouldnt register in your score. Its like playing friendlies on international football (soccer for you americans). At the moment, only the Early War arena almost achieves this goal. Just a thought for consideration.
By the way, the new patch fixed my graphics issues. I am back to 1024 with no problems. Full everything. Downloaded the custom sound packs, and I am definitely enjoying the game... especially those times when I encounter decent pilots for one on ones. How about bringing back FT? :)
Peru
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A "Liberal" approach to AH is not the answer. Making things easier for people does not make them learn better. Recent history is rife with examples of this. New players will do one or more the the following
1. Invest the time and effort to become a better virtual pilot.
2. Find a form of game play that rewards them with a modicum of success, be it bombing, flying with a squad, GVing, etc. and become good at that.
3. Find the path of least resistance, always taking the easy way out. Never actually improving in anything.
No, the best thing we can do for new players is make it as hard as it should be. When they ask for help, offer it.
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Good Cod ya'll
RR what's it good for?
Absolutely nothing...
Uh_huh
RR! It ain't nothing but a communitygreifer
RR! Friend only to the underachiever
RR! It's an enemy to all simkind
The thought of RR blows my mind
Ahhh. Nothing like a good ole RR vs FR fight :)
Woot!
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There is a RR arena its called the training arena. Easy fly model option with stall limiter and reduced damage from ammo. PLUS trainers on hand to help you most of the time.
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Originally posted by aqhawasi
Yes; however, I found that people flying the relaxed realism arena will be motivated enough to go and fly against the more experienced people and put their skills to the test. Most newbies will not want to stay in that arena for long. Everyone wants to play in the major leagues, no matter what they say. Would you stay in the CFL if you could move to the NFL?
Peru
Actually as someone who played AW for over a decade I can tell you that is incorrect. The vast majority will play the easier version. AW-FR typically maxed out at 150 people or less. All of the RR arenas combined had more than 1500 on a given night (there were up to ten of them on gamestorm with individual populations 300+. The human compulsion to indulge in the often humbling experience of competeing against the best is far out-weighed by the human compulsion to take the easier path of least resistance and ego gratification.
Zazen
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Playing putt putt is not ego enhancing.... in my book :lol
I have noticed many in the main arenas asking very basic, simple questions. Questions like "how do I raise my gear". Many want instant gratification in this microwave everything world. I don't see any way around it.
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Well as a noob on his two week trial I can say there is a hell of a lot to learn. I wouldn't want to fly in some noob arena as I don't think it would be much fun.
IMO you learn faster by getting your butt kicked however it is a bit annoying to fly for 5-10 mins to the fight only to get downed as soon as you get there. :furious
I think something that would help us noobs with landing gear issues :rofl and the other noobish stuff, was if there was a printable key function sheet.
I mean how the hell is a noob supposed to remember how to drop fuel tanks or do this and that while he's getting shot down every time he gets in the air? Most PC games have always come with a printed card that you could keep in easy accesses to figure out how to do something.
IMO that would help out a lot just to have something so simple.
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Key Commands
http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/keycmds.html
HiTech
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ok that was fast.. guess you were bored..
j/k thanks
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Originally posted by crockett
IMO you learn faster by getting your butt kicked however it is a bit annoying to fly for 5-10 mins to the fight only to get downed as soon as you get there. :furious
Good for you, Crockett.
- oldman
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Originally posted by hitech
Key Commands
http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/keycmds.html
HiTech
I always found this useful
Hammers AH Quick Ref (http://www.netaces.org/ahsetup/ah2quickref.pdf)
Link to Hammers Main Page (http://www.netaces.org)
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I remember AW RR as Zazen described it. Once in the kiddy pool, no one wanted to leave.
Without all the effects enabled, players in the RR arena could not properly learn ACM. With no black outs, they mostly tried to out turn everyone at 12Gs.
Once they went through one learning curve to get good, they didn't want to do it all over again. To fly in the FR arena, they had to unlearn and start again. I think the RR arena proved to not be a stepping stone, but a trap. I am glad this was pointed out to me before I started. I followed the advice and went right to the deep end, and I am glad I did :)
This game is all about player skill. We all fly the same set of aircraft. AH has off line play, and a Training Arena. New players can even use the stall limiter for a time. These are all stepping stones.
Gunner
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Originally posted by GunnerCAF
I remember AW RR as Zazen described it. Once in the kiddy pool, no one wanted to leave.
Without all the effects enabled, players in the RR arena could not properly learn ACM. With no black outs, they mostly tried to out turn everyone at 12Gs.
Once they went through one learning curve to get good, they didn't want to do it all over again. To fly in the FR arena, they had to unlearn and start again. I think the RR arena proved to not be a stepping stone, but a trap. I am glad this was pointed out to me before I started. I followed the advice and went right to the deep end, and I am glad I did :)
This game is all about player skill. We all fly the same set of aircraft. AH has off line play, and a Training Arena. New players can even use the stall limiter for a time. These are all stepping stones.
Gunner
that about sums it up, but back then for the newcomers who did step into the FR, they had to deal with Boozr, Dragn, Rapier, Fool, Fencer, DD, NB, Zues, WrW, Mute, STICK, Badz, Snowman, Merch and others and all of them "ALWAYS" offered a helping hand!!!
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I have alot of experience in past flight sims , online and offline.
I have a super duper computer and big moniter that runs AH , no sweat.
After flying for an hour every evening for 2 weeks , I am begining to get the hang of it , but even still, I have found the actual air combat part of the game very difficult.
This is a good thing, a REAL challange !!!
However , I do believe there should be a new players arena , available only to those whom have logged under a certain amount of hours/kills/crashes.
It would serve to feed the addiction early , and may have negative cosequences later , but it would help very early on in the learning.
I would certainly prefer a 3 week allowance for new players such as myself.
I feel now that I am getting a handle on things. Oh good , I dont have to work tomorrow , I will be playing all night!
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There must be a way that some of the vets on here can get to work with the various newbs? I think what happens is that newbs see what's going on around them and follow examples from other people.
What happens then is that you have 5-6 of them in lgays or 16's chasing 1 con and firing from 1.5k out or dying after a failed HO attempt.
Maybe reversing the perk system would help? i.e. limit the plane set till they have at least learned even the most basic of ACM/SA or what ever.
A spit 5 was (and still is) a great crate to learn in and die in. It's a shame really, there's much experience and lots of vets that could pass on good, constructive knowledge in a few mins, if they could only get matched up with each other.
What about a newb winging somebody for 30 mins to an hour?
I'm just trying to think of things that would help the community in the long run guys.
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here's my perspective, being relatively new myself...
saw the commercial, hit me like a ton of bricks "WTF... I love WW2 planes, why have I not played a game like this before." downloaded the game, played offline for a week or so and then started my free 2 weeks. I, like many noobs, wanted action and I wanted it now. I did spend a day or two in the TA, but I guess I didn't read the MOTD or something, 'cause I didn't realize we were supposed to ask before shooting in that arena. Anyhoo, I wasn't getting enough action in the TA so I jumped into the MA (old MA, before the split) Of course, I died A LOT. The next month I died A LOT. The next month I still died a lot, but a little less than the previous month. This continued, with me getting better in small increments, learning "the hard way" so to speak. For me, considering my motivations to play this game and the time I had available, this was/is my preferred method of learning. Sure, I'd probably be better now if I had spent my first 2 months in the TA, but I wouldn't have had as much "fun" in the process.
So, that said, the improvement I'd make to make the noob experience better for both the noob and the rest of the AH community is this: training squads. A squad, led by a trainer(s), that flys together in the MA. The one thing I was looking for in a squad was personnel with training experience who would take a noob under their wing and conduct on the job training in the MA. Heck, I'd still like to join such a squad. If someone asks a noob question on 200, he could be sent an invite to the training squad. Of course, people would eventually people would graduate and move on to other squads, but they could possibly also stay on as a junior trainer if needed.
Thoughts?
.
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Originally posted by GunnerCAF
I remember AW RR as Zazen described it. Once in the kiddy pool, no one wanted to leave.
Without all the effects enabled, players in the RR arena could not properly learn ACM. With no black outs, they mostly tried to out turn everyone at 12Gs.
Once they went through one learning curve to get good, they didn't want to do it all over again. To fly in the FR arena, they had to unlearn and start again. I think the RR arena proved to not be a stepping stone, but a trap. I am glad this was pointed out to me before I started. I followed the advice and went right to the deep end, and I am glad I did :)
This game is all about player skill. We all fly the same set of aircraft. AH has off line play, and a Training Arena. New players can even use the stall limiter for a time. These are all stepping stones.
Gunner
Yup, just like I had to unlearn all that stuff I learned flying other sims before I came here. Like being able to drop flaps @ 300Mph in a zeke to achieve those uber turn rates.
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I would say, that anyone who is serious about this game/sim and especially if you are serious about flying fighters should invest in the following.
Fighter Combat: Tactics and Maneuvering by Robert L. Shaw (http://www.amazon.com/Fighter-Combat-Maneuvering-Robert-Shaw/dp/0870210599)
This book is the best info you will ever get ragarding flying fighter aircraft of any era.
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
that about sums it up, but back then for the newcomers who did step into the FR, they had to deal with Boozr, Dragn, Rapier, Fool, Fencer, DD, NB, Zues, WrW, Mute, STICK, Badz, Snowman, Merch and others and all of them "ALWAYS" offered a helping hand!!!
As one of the guys who made transition from "Ace of Aces" in RR to "kick me I'm a target drone" in FR I learned more in a day in FR then in my year or so in RR. Actually as a general rule they actually avoided ganging you (no clue how they qued up for the kick the noob conga line) and if you stuck with it over time you learned. And when you finally caught one of them in an over confident "triple emmil with the double reverse tailslide" you got some serious ego stroking vs some snide jackoscar comment. Then all of a sudden one day the 2nd guy doesnt stay out and you no longer get the "grab as much alt as you want"....and you realize your now firmly entrenched at the bottom rung of the food chain but your now "one of us". Then a bit later you see guys flying over you while your in a 1 on 2 and get the comment ( I'm not wating my time coming down unless you leave me one). Then you get the "hehe i'm swooping down and I'm gonna cherry em both" {which is not aimed at picking the percieved "baby seals" but at harassing you as a "known" player}[in many of the old guard squads "picking" from squadies was great ongoing fun] and being treated as an "auxillery member" was a compliment...
finally if you got really good (or were on a roll) guys would up looking for you....
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Originally posted by aqhawasi
a) Find some guy flying in a straight line, get on his six, he wont move, shoot him down. Repeat 4 times. b) Find the same guy, or similar, tries to evade, but since he/she cant fly, goes into an uncontrollable spin, dies. c) Starts shooting once i start shooting him, even when I am on his six o'clock. d) Starts shooting at me from 1500 yds out. e) combinations.
OH GREAT!.... now they are gonna read this and know what not to do.
There goes my hope of getting a kill :mad:
:D
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Originally posted by miraj
However , I do believe there should be a new players arena , available only to those whom have logged under a certain amount of hours/kills/crashes.
I think it would be way cool to have some "skill based" arenas, where you could play against people at more or less your level of experience. No idea how you would implement it, but it would be fun.
Then we could get rid of ack, dano, widewing and whoever else it is that know what they are doing and keep SHOOTING MY ARSE DOWN.
:lol j/king
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bsaddict, most squads ARE training/helping their new members. And if they arent but you need the help, then maybe they are not the right squad for you at the moment.
I love teaching. But some days, i just want to log on and shoot/get shot. Im pretty sure you wont find a player that will just go and "baby sit" newbies in the MA all the time.
When i shoot a flying-straight-and-level noob or the pony-full-ord-to-turnfight-my-Hurr-off-the-runway noob i usually tune them private and offer help (might need to let them know to use / key to chat on help channel 6). If they dont want the help, ill rack up kills. But most gladly accept any assistance offered.
Something else id like to add: not all players WANT to learn. Some just want to know the "button that takes them off and shoots the bad guy". To those that make a little effort (ie actually *ask* and listen to the answer) loads of learning tools and stepping stones are readily available. Provided by HTC, the Trainers Corps and a lot of helpful longtime players.
miraj, if you need help with the "air combat" part of things: http://trainers.hitechcreations.com - the page also contains a request form for scheduling training.
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No more arenas :mad:
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Doesn't anyone play for the challenge anymore?
Sheeeesh. RR was fun when you were new. But FR was where it was at.
One actually had to learn some ACM there. SA was about the same in both RR and FR but RR was flying on a rail with no penalties.
Now...if yaz wanna be a good virtual Pilot take the time to learn.
We all got shot down many times when we were new....happened to everyone in any arena. But RR???? Sheeeesh ya gotta be kidding?
If ya want RR play FA....ya get a free toaster when ya sign up and a poster of Farrah Fawcett.....RR sheeeeeeeeeesh.