Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SFRT - Frenchy on November 21, 2006, 03:10:44 PM
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NBC linky (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15820639/?GT1=8717)
No U.S. models on list of safest vehicles
Insurers required electronic stability control to be considered
DETROIT - Imported models took all 13 spots on the U.S. insurance industry’s list of safest vehicles this year, due mainly to a new requirement that all cars and sport utilities on the list have systems to keep them stable in an emergency.
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety isn’t bashful about its reasons for pushing electronic stability control, saying that its studies show up to 10,000 fatal crashes per year could be prevented if every vehicle had the safety feature.
“The research is so compelling that electronic stability control could help prevent many crashes from happening in the first place,” institute spokesman Russ Rader said.
Winners for the 2007 model year included the Audi A6 in the large car category; the Audi A-4, Saab 9-3 and Subaru Legacy (with optional stability control) for midsize cars; the Hyundai Entourage and Kia Sedona minivans; the Mercedes M-class and Volvo XC90 luxury sport utility vehicles; the Acura RDX, Honda Pilot and Subaru B9 Tribeca midsize SUVs; and the Honda CR-V and Subaru Forester small SUVs.
All 13 vehicles are tops in protecting people in front, side and rear crash tests based on institute tests during the year. Pickup trucks were not included because the institute has not yet tested their side crashworthiness.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has proposed requiring electronic stability control on all new vehicles by the 2012 model year, but institute President Adrian Lund said that’s not soon enough.
“We think that they are too slow,” Lund said. “Automakers will probably have it as standard equipment by the time the federal standards actually take full effect.”
Domestic manufacturers had no models on the list of safest vehicles because they haven’t moved quickly enough to add stability control to their models, Lund said in a telephone interview.
For instance, Ford Motor Co. would have had three cars — the Ford Freestyle crossover and the Mercury Montego and Ford 500 sedans — make the list if they had stability control, the institute said. The 500 and the Montego earned top safety picks last year.
Ford spokesman Jim Cain said all three vehicles will get stability control for the 2008 model year, with versions equipped with the safety feature on sale sometime next year. The company has not determined whether the feature will be standard or optional, he said.
“We’re moving in the same direction as the institute,” he said.
Ford has said previously that it would put stability control on its entire lineup by the end of 2009.
General Motors Corp. said nearly two years ago that it would make the technology standard in all vehicles by 2010, including all SUVs and some full-size pickups in the 2007 model year.
Toyota has said stability control would be a standard feature across all its models by 2009.
DaimlerChrysler AG said it will have the technology on 54 percent of its vehicles this model year and will meet the federal government’s timetable for the rest.
All 2007 SUVs, pickups and minivans produced by Honda Motor Co. carry the technology, while Hyundai Motor Co. said it is standard equipment on 70 percent of its 2007 vehicles.
Several other vehicles, including nine Toyota Motor Corp. models, would have made the list if they had stability control, the institute said.
No small cars made this year’s list. The Honda Civic, which won last year, was knocked off due to lack of stability control on most models. The one version that has the feature doesn’t have head restraints for rear crash protection, the institute said.
SUVs were eligible to win for the first time this year because the institute conducted side-impact tests on many models.
The institute said the overall awards will help people quickly compare vehicles without having to review results from multiple tests.
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my car has driver stability control, it's a older design but it works very well.
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Originally posted by john9001
my car has driver stability control, it's a older design but it works very well.
LMAO!!!! :rofl :rofl
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:lol
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This testing was limited and has no bearing on true safety. That being said, this means nothing negative to the American car market, however it does mean that the testing facility is of little or no value to anyone in the market for a vehicle based on true safety.
They may as well limit themselves to cars made in Yugoslavia because they have a set of toenail clippers in the ashtray, long tonails can deplete braking capacity... therefore any vehicle without clippers will not be tested. :rolleyes:
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if a sharp metal spike came out of your steering column during an accident instead of an airbag people would drive much more carefully and hence we would have fewer accidents.
coincidentally i would like to put a sharp metal spike in the foreheads of most of the people I see in traffic.:t
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And on the gooood news...
In its newly released 2006 Annual Car Reliability Survey, Consumer Reports discovered that the Fusion and Milan actually scored higher in predicted reliability than the Honda Accord V6 and Toyota Camry V6. The Zephyr also did well in the upscale cars category, scoring slightly behind the Lexus ES350. Other domestic models did well too, including the Buick Lucerne and Cadillac DTS, both of which were above average in predicted reliability.
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/10/domestic-models-gain-major-ground-in-consumer-reports/
Ford should not go celebrating around with this good news. They should continue making reliable cars with consistency so that they'll gain back their customers.
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Originally posted by 1K3
And on the gooood news...
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/10/domestic-models-gain-major-ground-in-consumer-reports/
Ford should not go celebrating around with this good news. They should continue making reliable cars with consistency so that they'll gain back their customers.
Maybe I miss something, when did Ford celebrate? They've used and potatod everything from Volvo and implemented it into Ford products. NOW, they are looking to sell all brands of the "Premier Automotive Group" in Irvine, Ca.
Ford will be LUCKY to exist (without being merged or bought out) within the next 5-10 years. They too many exec's that offer little more than redundancy and they can't even get THAT to work.
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The US automakers should dump the unions. If they do this, they can produce a higher quality car (safer, more powerful, better) for less money then any import.
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Originally posted by john9001
my car has driver stability control, it's a older design but it works very well.
Thanks for the laugh!!
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I figure that you are better off simply learning how to drive so that you don't wreck cars.
lazs
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<>
"predicted reliability "? what is that? we think this car will be reliable?
:D
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FORD: Fix Or Replace Daily
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
FORD: Fix Or Replace Daily
FORD: First On Race Day
Also, it is "Fix or REPAIR Daily"
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I think Ford is not as bad as Benz's today. Their C and E class models are lemons!
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It's also Found On Road Dead.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
FORD: First On Race Day
Also, it is "Fix or REPAIR Daily"
I changed it, fix and repair are redundant.
I guess the techs at ford missed that :D
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
It's also Found On Road Dead.:rolleyes:
I like:D
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I never really gave safety a priority in my vehicle purchase. I used common sense really, the smaller the car the less likely one would survive. After my accident last September I have a higher priority on it. But not has high as "fun factor" and "piss beet1e off with poor gas mileage" factor. Those 2 = fun!!!
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g308/txflood77598/david_woodersonSMALL.jpg)
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You know why Chevy has the slogan "Like a rock?"
Once they stop rolling, they never go again
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Best I've heard about F.O.R.D. is from a ford wrench.
Spelled backward it is:
Driver
Returns
On
Foot
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Just another example of an industry being told how to perform its function by insurance companies. They tell doctors how to treat patients, manufacturers how to build their products, etc., etc. They'll be telling you how to have sex in 10 years, mark my words...
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US cars = crap.
Sticking with my 1998 Honda. :)
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your 98 honda was built in Ohio.
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Pretty soon the big 3 will have more pensioners than customers....unless they start making some decent cars people want to own.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I figure that you are better off simply learning how to drive so that you don't wreck cars.
lazs
Indeed. I taught my kids how to drive in poor conditions by letting them practice skid control in a snow-covered parking lot. Stability Control is for the worst-case driver who has no clue how to drive their vehicle out of trouble....
The first thing road testers look for when testing modern cars is the ESP off switch. It's like flying AH2 with stall limiter on....
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by LePaul
Pretty soon the big 3 will have more pensioners than customers....unless they start making some decent cars people want to own.
chrysler and cadilac seem to be doing pretty good with the c-rap set...
jeeps are still tops for offroading...
ford fleet sells huge amounts of 4x4 F-150s to the oild industry...
and ive seen more american made minivans around construction sites than foreign made trucks.
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I bet that if the stability control thingy was standard on all american cars but not foreign cars then the thread would be very different. :D
Stabilty control is even for those who are not "worst-case drivers". You make it sound like a nanny system that makes poor drivers. The rather old age group that lives in the oclub with their deteriorating reflexes and bodily functions ( yeah yeah.. you are all fighter pilots with 20/20 everything and so on) should embrace it. ;)
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Widewing,
I disagree strongly about your statement that stability control is for worst-case drivers. I was taught to drive by a CHP pursuit driver, learned skid control using the snowy parking lot method just like you say, race my firebird in SCCA autocross competition, and I STILL had my butt saved by my firebird's traction control. I was driving at night, and it was snowing very lightly. The snow was very dry and the wind was blowing it off the road, so conditions were not all that bad really. Then I hit a patch of ice and the car immediately started to spin.
The traction control immediately kicked in. The gas pedal bump kicked my foot off the gas, retarded the ignition, and the TCS and ABS systems applied the brakes to individual wheels as necessary to get the car straightened out again. It was over in less than a second. There is NO WAY I could have reacted that quickly and I'm convinced that I would have spun and wrecked if the TCS system hadn't saved my butt that night.
Before you go thinking "that wouldn't have happened to me 'cause I'm a better driver", I was in my mid-20s, was a young F-15 fighter pilot fresh out of training that enhances spatial orientation, reflexes and hand-eye coordination, had been racing that car for a while, and I had arguably better reflexes and coordination than around 99% of the population. It wouldn't have made a difference. It happened too fast. Any speed over 20 mph would have had the same results, but traffic was averaging about 55 at the time and the 50 mph I was going seemed rather slow for the predominant conditions.
I drove another 8 hours that night, and didn't encounter another icy patch of road, so my point is that the stability control is there to help out in unexpected situations just as much as it is to save incompetent drivers.
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Given the horsepower at the rear wheels and the solid rear axle our f-body's have, I am very glad that ASR is standard on our cars. There are times, such as eagl just explained, where no matter how much Shumacher or Earnhardt-like mad skillz can't save your *** when you get into trouble. I learned that the hard way with my '65 GTO. Yes, it pays to be a driver that stays ontop of things. Some things just can't be anticipated.
After 2 months with the Z, eagl, I can't believe the difference over my '96 despite the engine difference. In terms of fit, finish, ergonomics, and HVAC design changes, it's almost night and day.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g308/txflood77598/david_woodersonSMALL.jpg)
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If conditions are bad I slow down. If I have to go 15 mph I will. I watch young women go by me in the first hard rain of the season in crap boxes at 90 mph with tires bout as wide as my forearm. I am not sure what automatic device will stop hydroplaning.
We grew up with cars that didn't stop or handle and the tires would blow no matter how new. When you were going 70 or 80 you were VERY alert.
I doubt many here knows what it is like to blow a rear tire in a 57 chevy at 90 mph or have the brake pedal go to the floor or have a wheel lift while the car plows around a corner.
Probly the best safety device they could install would be to induce a shake in the wheel at 70.
I used the traction control in the lincoln once so far in backing out of a snow covered parking place. I hate the frigging snow. My 5.0 mustang with a 5 sp was a ***** in the snow. I slowed down. people were crashing all over the place. Why the hell didn't they slow down?
nelson... I am gonna have to get a lot older before I can't beat you in any type of vehicle contest.
lazs
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Im sure you can beat me in any kind of car contest as i dont care about it, but that has nothing to do with the issue at all.
Regards
Admiral Nelson
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but nelson... you said that old people with poor reflexes should welcome it.
I say that young people who have no experiance are a lot worse off and that no amount of safety devices short of removing the engine will help em.
reflexes are great but if you don't have a clue that something is about to happen or you have a phone stuck in your ear or the stereo full bore... you might as well be a 90 year old with cataracts and no hearing.
lazs
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Originally posted by eagl
Widewing,
I disagree strongly about your statement that stability control is for worst-case drivers.
(snipped)
I drove another 8 hours that night, and didn't encounter another icy patch of road, so my point is that the stability control is there to help out in unexpected situations just as much as it is to save incompetent drivers.
Fair enough. The term worst-case was a bad choice of wording. Clearly, ESP can benefit most people who find themselves in situations for which they are unprepared. Re-thinking my post, I find myself in agreement that most drivers will benefit from Stability Control, just as they have from ABS.
To me, driving is something you do very well or you do it poorly. 99% of drivers you encounter every day drive poorly, but most have convinced themselves that they have good skills. Then they run into a situation where their skills are tested and they flunk. Confidence is a dangerous thing in the absence of serious training. Here in America, we don't train our drivers to do anything but pass the minimal skills road test, and that is reflected in the carnage on our roads. This reality only supports your statement. If it can keep the hooples from rear-ending me at a stoplight... Then it's all good.
I began driving in 1969, in a 1965 Corvair. I've owned Alfas, MGs, a Porsche, several Jeeps (CJ-3 and CJ-5), a 300ZX, a T-Type Regal, a WRX, my current hotrodded Suzuki SX and a much smiled-on Shelby GLHS. To that add several sedans, hatchbacks and SUVs as well as. I have about 600,000 miles of driving and another 70,000 or so on motorcycles (BSA, Suzuki, Yamaha and Triumph). I have somehow managed to avoid having a single road accident. When I think back to some of the crazy things I did on the road and off, I can only wonder how I lived so long.
Like you I was involved in autocross, solo events and attended the Skip Barber school at Lime Rock. Car control skills can only be learned by driving at the limit in a safe environment. Most drivers find the limit only after they have crossed it.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by lazs2
but nelson... you said that old people with poor reflexes should welcome it.
I say that young people who have no experiance are a lot worse off and that no amount of safety devices short of removing the engine will help em.
reflexes are great but if you don't have a clue that something is about to happen or you have a phone stuck in your ear or the stereo full bore... you might as well be a 90 year old with cataracts and no hearing.
lazs
Yes they would benefit even more than the young frisky folks with decent reflexes. As eagle sais tho.. it does not matter if you are 20 and a fighterpilot or old and cranky like .....
People who belive they are good divers are ususally among the worst as they over estimate their skills so hopefully as many of them as possible have some sort of electronics to help them on their way.
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ABS will not make your car stop faster, it means you will be in complete control of your car when it slams into the other car.
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Originally posted by john9001
ABS will not make your car stop faster, it means you will be in complete control of your car when it slams into the other car.
:rofl
shamus