Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Simaril on November 23, 2006, 09:44:23 AM
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HT --
Lately we've been discussing the strategic system in detail, and personally I'm hoping that drumming up interest in its effects may help bridge the apparent gap between the Air-to-Air guys and the Win the War guys. There are a few areas left unclear or incomplete in the help files, and getting details would help the strategically minded put the strat into their regular gameplay.
So a few questions.
1. Do resupply convoys affect town buildings' down time? It appears that the 15 minutes we actually see is the mathematical outcome of the 45 minute default, reduced by one delivery of the every 10 minute automatic supply system; is that impression correct?
2. What are the strat damage-vs-supply delivery thresholds? Help files state that when the source is damaged 50%, only one of the 6 car supply delivery carries actual supplies. Could you tell us what levels are needed to make each successive car empty?
2a. Also, am I correct in assuming that each of the 6 cars reduces down time by 5 minutes? (30 minutes per train, divided by 6 cars)
3. Does damaging the lead truck, barge, or engine stop movement for the ones that follow?
4. Does destroying a bridge on the road or track stop the delivery of strat supplies?
5. Does the "every ten minutes" timer for supply convoys run regardless of player actions, or does it start counting from the destruction of a convoy ? (As we see when carriers are killed.)
Thanks!
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Great questions!
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Simaril-
I would think that most of what the issue really is, concerning the rift between different types of play, concerns town captures. Or more precisely, the means of which it is done. The way our strat system works, whereas to capture territory one must merely destroy all of the buildings in town, and simply put 10 men into the maproom, is kinda outmoded with as many people as are playing this game. If we could change it to a more realistic model, say, You have to advance a front line, or protect your infantry/mechanized columns advance or retreat, you could bring in a strat system that really has some flesh and substance.
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Simaril I think I can answer a couple of those, but I could be wrong so don't make any bets on what I say.
3. Does damaging the lead truck, barge, or engine stop movement for the ones that follow? I know it does for the Train. :)
4. Does destroying a bridge on the road or track stop the delivery of strat supplies?I am 90% sure we can't destroy the over passes/bridges in any of the MA maps. I have never seen one destroyed and never heard of anyone talk about destroying one. In the Special Events terrains we have had bridges that can be destroyed, but I don't recall any convoy or trains that go over them.
5. Does the "every ten minutes" timer for supply convoys run regardless of player actions, or does it start counting from the destruction of a convoy ? Dux or one of the terrain guys can correct me if I am wrong, but the supply runs every 10 minutes irregardless of what happens to the convoy. They also make it to the target every 10 minutes no matter how long the road or train track is. A few years ago when that was a new option for the terrain builders some made some tracks/roads that were VERY long. 6, 8, 10 times longer than the MA tracks. Consequently the trucks and trains were moving hundreds of miles an hour (faster than some AC) to reach their destination in 10 minutes. :eek: Gave us all a good laugh when we realized our mistake. Now the speed of the truck convoys and trains are slightly adjusted by the length of the road/track.
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Also it looks like the barracks are now only staying down a short time compaired to what they used to be and have seen a post from someone saying something about this... If so have any of the other strat objects on the field had their down times changed? If not I think I would like to see them shortened also. It made hiting the grunt training and city worth something last night although I was having a bit of difficulty getting guys to understand how things worked. :)
Guy says we need to go and pork base so and so to save this other base but I look at the strat and troop training is at 100%. So if the barracks down time is set at 15 minuits porking the base is not going to help much untill we nail that factory and possibly the city.
If all field strat downtime is shortened this suddenly flip flops the entire strat game and bombing runs become much more important (YAY) :aok
The 1 thing I did see was while all of the other factories were being hit to some degree or other, the fuel factory was still at 100%. As it stands now it has next to no stratigic value.. Could ya at least let us take it down to 50% so field defence is still possible and maybe some limmited short range attacks but would make long range offencive manuvers next to impossible from that base untill gas is resuped.
Oh 1 last thing... For the first time I've ever seen while bish were trying to take a base some guys blew the crap out of an incomig convoy and not just for the fun of it lol....
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Simaril-
I would think that most of what the issue really is, concerning the rift between different types of play, concerns town captures. Or more precisely, the means of which it is done. The way our strat system works, whereas to capture territory one must merely destroy all of the buildings in town, and simply put 10 men into the maproom, is kinda outmoded with as many people as are playing this game. If we could change it to a more realistic model, say, You have to advance a front line, or protect your infantry/mechanized columns advance or retreat, you could bring in a strat system that really has some flesh and substance.
A fancier strat system would add depth to the capture game, no doubt. But I dont think its fair to ask for more when very few take advantage of the elements we have already.
About taking bases....well, that is ALWAYS going to be gamey, because this is a weapons system simulator, not a war game. And, while SAYING "protect a column" sounds good -- guarding things is fairly boring, which is why so few bother to do a real carrier CAP. I dont see the capture mechanism as a problem at all, honestly.
Daddog:
Thanks for the input, DD
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Originally posted by Simaril
A fancier strat system would add depth to the capture game, no doubt. But I dont think its fair to ask for more when very few take advantage of the elements we have already.
About taking bases....well, that is ALWAYS going to be gamey, because this is a weapons system simulator, not a war game. And, while SAYING "protect a column" sounds good -- guarding things is fairly boring, which is why so few bother to do a real carrier CAP. I dont see the capture mechanism as a problem at all, honestly.
Daddog:
Thanks for the input, DD
The thing with our strat system is, it doesn't have much of an impact for the amount of effort required. It is still far easier to simply overwhelm a field, continuing this cycle to you reach the zone control, then acquire the strats simply through the zone mechanic, or, what I see much more often (partly due to the lack of zone setups, I suppose), is that the field is taken, and the strat factories are then attacked simply because they're handy defenseless targets (assuming the choo choo doesn't find you :noid ), or to pad attack and bombing scores.
Now, if the strats were tied to capture, then I would think a more robust system could be rationalized. Anyway, that's how I see things, and whether or not things would actually play out like that... remains an unknown.
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Originally posted by Simaril
2. What are the strat damage-vs-supply delivery thresholds? Help files state that when the source is damaged 50%, only one of the 6 car supply delivery carries actual supplies. Could you tell us what levels are needed to make each successive car empty?
i think thats just an example..... 50% down, only 50% of cars have supplys.
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Simaril: Start with this help page.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/map.html#targets
It tells you what can and can not be supplied with people or Trucks/trains/barges.
If you take out a car on train or barge, then all behind the one you took out do not count. With a convoy taking one out does not effect the others.
Your assumption on how taking part of a convoy out is correct.
You can not destroy bridges that the trains and convoys use.
Also I noticed
Guns
Radar
Ammo
fuel
Barracks
Are really set at 3 hours base down time, not 2.
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Originally posted by hitech
If you take out a car on train or barge, then all behind the one you took out do not count.
This means that if you take out the lead car on a train or barge that none of the supplies from that train or barge will make it to the destination.
Correct?
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Originally posted by Overlag
i think thats just an example..... 50% down, only 50% of cars have supplys.
Recheck the math, overlag -- take the city 50% down, and only 1 out of 6 cars are full (16%).
That's a pretty steep curve.
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Originally posted by hitech
Simaril: Start with this help page.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/map.html#targets
It tells you what can and can not be supplied with people or Trucks/trains/barges.
If you take out a car on train or barge, then all behind the one you took out do not count. With a convoy taking one out does not effect the others.
Your assumption on how taking part of a convoy out is correct.
You can not destroy bridges that the trains and convoys use.
Also I noticed
Guns
Radar
Ammo
fuel
Barracks
Are really set at 3 hours base down time, not 2.
Thanks HT.
Unfortunately that table is a bit unclear -- and for example I've had it used as "proof" that the town buildings aren't affected by the convoys (since the resupply column is marked "N/A") It almost seems the headings should be changed to "Supply Source," "Player Supplies Effective," and "Convoy Supplies Effective."
Is the help file correct in saying that 50% city damage makes only 1 out of 6 cars active (16%)? Or is it a more linear match with the percent of city damaged?
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I used to play a more strategic game - but frankly one's efforts do not 'appear' to help in tangible way. The % City/Ammo/Training figures do drop nicely aftr a bombing run but it's difficult to see any positive results of one's efforts. I know it does work - it's just difficult to appreciate it.
Several times I've heard players laugh at those trying to play a more strategic game - they were of the strong opinion that it was a waste of time - and it's difficult to prove otherwise.
I've now switched to hitting the towns hard just prior to an assault and forgetting the strategic play altogether.
Then again from HTC's point of view I can see it's going to be darned difficult to easily arrange for a more simple or elegant system which doesn't eat up too many development and/or server resources.
Maybe a strat player should earn perk points for each supply convoy he knobbled? That would help - it doesn't seem too difficult to implement either.
I think the ability to destroy supply bridges might add a really useful aspect to the game - a half-way house between strategic and tactical play. That would be a really nice realistic mission objective - kill a vital bridge.
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I'd like to see air fields placed next to factories instead of having them way out in the boonies. That way we could protect them (or not).
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Originally posted by Flayed1
have any of the other strat objects on the field had their down times changed?
Last night I rolled a panzer into a town and started dropping the ack. Once done with that I started to work on the buildings. Before I could use all the ammo I had, the ack stated to come back up. Ack should stay down a little longer.
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Originally posted by KTM520guy
Last night I rolled a panzer into a town and started dropping the ack. Once done with that I started to work on the buildings. Before I could use all the ammo I had, the ack stated to come back up. Ack should stay down a little longer.
its 15minutes down time as standard..... if the factory is at 100%.
thats why if you are on a offencive war a GROUP of you should be making sure that the AAA factory is never over 50%....
if its a defencive war you are doing, kill the troops and ord factories.
(the city should never be over 50% ;))