Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: EagleDNY on November 25, 2006, 01:22:23 PM

Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: EagleDNY on November 25, 2006, 01:22:23 PM
Here's a thought...

I was trying to think of a real reason that I shouldn't just ditch or bail and then re-up the same ride.  For me, the 5-10 minutes trip home isn't really worth the extra perkies I'm going to get, especially since I got all the perkies I need anyway.  Heck when the ENY is high, I can't even spend 'em when I want to.

Rank isn't worth much other than for CV control, and I won't even bother mentioning all the various dweebish ways there are to inflate your rank anyway.

That said, I think the game would benefit from having a real reason to bring the rides home again.  So I'll give you one - the MECHANICS BONUS.  

You're fresh from flight school, and you show up on a field and they give you a stock, factory fresh .  Now your maintenance chief knows that those slugs in the factory couldn't find their buttocks with both hands, so he starts working to bring your aircraft up to snuff.  He'll start tuning the engine for better fuel consumption & more power, greasing up your guns just right so that you can get maximum rate of fire, maybe adding those shackles for those underwing guns you wanted, or tuning up your control cables a bit for that bit of extra snap you were looking for, or turning up the hydraulic pressure so you can pull out of that dive a bit easier.

Tweaks wouldn't have to be all that much to make it worthwhile to bring a ride home.

Sample List:
Engine Tune #1: -5% fuel consumption
Engine Tune #2: +5% engine power
Gun Tune: guns go from stock ROF to maximum ROF on each weapon
Controls Tune: +5% on control surfaces (??)
Armor Kits: add extra armor to critical items like oil / fuel tanks (??)
Ordnance Kits: optional gun packages or special ordnance loadings available (pylon guns, rocket mountings, special bombs).

You get the idea.  It gives a pilot a real incentive to bring his ride home.  The more sorties he completes with his ride, the more work gets done on it, so he ends up with a more customized ride.

Caveat 1: No work gets done unless you make a successful (ie. score perkies) sortie.  You can also make the case that you must land kills to get work done on your ride.

Caveat 2: Lose the ride, lose the bonus.  Crash, get shot down or bail out, and it's gone.  Your replacement ride arrived from the factory today, Sir - doesn't look as nice as your old one, and the seat isn't nearly as comfy...


EagleDNY
$.02
"Imaginative Solutions to Common Problems"
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: croduh on November 25, 2006, 01:35:28 PM
HTC said this will happen in CT.
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: EagleDNY on November 25, 2006, 01:46:02 PM
I'd say we need it in the arenas as well.
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: Billy Joe Bob on November 25, 2006, 02:27:04 PM
I dont even pay for MA but I think this idea is pretty good. :aok
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: Tilt on November 25, 2006, 02:36:40 PM
Why not be able to buy a "tune up" with perks........... that way earning perks has value........
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: Krusty on November 25, 2006, 03:07:33 PM
Why not? Because that unevens the playing field. When 2 virtual pilots compete in 2 identical P51Ds the outcome should be up to the pilot skill, NOT the fact that 2 identical planes flew with a large performance disparity.

The planes have limits for a reason. They all have the same limits. If you want a plane that's FASTER fly a different plane. If you want one that's more nimble you fly a different plane. You don't aks HTC to "make my plane faster!! OOh, no! Make mine turn better!!".
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: Bronk on November 25, 2006, 03:12:19 PM
SARCASM ALERT

 zOMG 11!!!!1!!!!!111!!! I want frikkin lazer beams and forcefield power ups.
You get em by flying though 2 bomber hangers inverted within 30 seconds .

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:  


Bronk
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: hubsonfire on November 25, 2006, 03:14:13 PM
This would only reward timidity, and that makes for crappy gameplay. If you need an incentive to land, make one up. If you don't care, just bail.
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: Traveler on November 25, 2006, 04:04:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Why not? Because that unevens the playing field. When 2 virtual pilots compete in 2 identical P51Ds the outcome should be up to the pilot skill, NOT the fact that 2 identical planes flew with a large performance disparity.

The planes have limits for a reason. They all have the same limits. If you want a plane that's FASTER fly a different plane. If you want one that's more nimble you fly a different plane. You don't aks HTC to "make my plane faster!! OOh, no! Make mine turn better!!".


and the speed of their internet connection and processor.
Title: Re: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: Traveler on November 25, 2006, 04:09:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by EagleDNY
Here's a thought...

I was trying to think of a real reason that I shouldn't just ditch or bail and then re-up the same ride.  For me, the 5-10 minutes trip home isn't really worth the extra perkies I'm going to get, especially since I got all the perkies I need anyway.  Heck when the ENY is high, I can't even spend 'em when I want to.

Rank isn't worth much other than for CV control, and I won't even bother mentioning all the various dweebish ways there are to inflate your rank anyway.

That said, I think the game would benefit from having a real reason to bring the rides home again.  So I'll give you one - the MECHANICS BONUS.  

You're fresh from flight school, and you show up on a field and they give you a stock, factory fresh .  Now your maintenance chief knows that those slugs in the factory couldn't find their buttocks with both hands, so he starts working to bring your aircraft up to snuff.  He'll start tuning the engine for better fuel consumption & more power, greasing up your guns just right so that you can get maximum rate of fire, maybe adding those shackles for those underwing guns you wanted, or tuning up your control cables a bit for that bit of extra snap you were looking for, or turning up the hydraulic pressure so you can pull out of that dive a bit easier.

Tweaks wouldn't have to be all that much to make it worthwhile to bring a ride home.

Sample List:
Engine Tune #1: -5% fuel consumption
Engine Tune #2: +5% engine power
Gun Tune: guns go from stock ROF to maximum ROF on each weapon
Controls Tune: +5% on control surfaces (??)
Armor Kits: add extra armor to critical items like oil / fuel tanks (??)
Ordnance Kits: optional gun packages or special ordnance loadings available (pylon guns, rocket mountings, special bombs).

You get the idea.  It gives a pilot a real incentive to bring his ride home.  The more sorties he completes with his ride, the more work gets done on it, so he ends up with a more customized ride.

Caveat 1: No work gets done unless you make a successful (ie. score perkies) sortie.  You can also make the case that you must land kills to get work done on your ride.

Caveat 2: Lose the ride, lose the bonus.  Crash, get shot down or bail out, and it's gone.  Your replacement ride arrived from the factory today, Sir - doesn't look as nice as your old one, and the seat isn't nearly as comfy...


EagleDNY
$.02
"Imaginative Solutions to Common Problems"


Good suggestion, however, furballers will never stand for it.  But I'd like to see the perk system changed so that if you disco, crash, you don't get any perks, if you land anywhere on any friendly field you get credit.
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: Tilt on November 25, 2006, 05:42:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Why not? Because that unevens the playing field. When 2 virtual pilots compete in 2 identical P51Ds the outcome should be up to the pilot skill, NOT the fact that 2 identical planes flew with a large performance disparity.



Fuel loads, pylon drag.......the field is uneven and even a "tune up" should never produce a "LARGE" performance disparity............ may be just 20/30 extra revs at mil power.
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: Overlag on November 25, 2006, 06:10:58 PM
i think this is all to do with "gaming the game".

so many people now dont care about bringing home there plane, and just bail after they drop there bombs or take hits.

i ALWAYS try and bring it home...... im trying to play realisticaly. but so many are from the "instant action" crowd that constantly moan about 10miles being too far to fly for action etc etc etc.

well play counterstrike or something.
Title: Re: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: SuperDud on November 25, 2006, 06:21:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by EagleDNY
I was trying to think of a real reason that I shouldn't just ditch or bail and then re-up the same ride.  


There is no reason, it's a game. Games are suppose to be fun, not tedious and frustrating. If you guys want to fly to live, that's cool. But some of us don't really care if our pixels make it back to the virtual runway or not.
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: SuperDud on November 25, 2006, 06:22:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
i think this is all to do with "gaming the game".

so many people now dont care about bringing home there plane, and just bail after they drop there bombs or take hits.

i ALWAYS try and bring it home...... im trying to play realisticaly. but so many are from the "instant action" crowd that constantly moan about 10miles being too far to fly for action etc etc etc.

well play counterstrike or something.


OR you could join the airforce!@!@:O
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: Overlag on November 25, 2006, 07:00:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SuperDud
OR you could join the airforce!@!@:O


you will be old enough to join soon, im too old to join now :p
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: SuperDud on November 25, 2006, 07:18:29 PM
I just turned 13! In 3 more years I can drive a car WOOOWOOOOOO!!!:cool:
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: Kweassa on November 26, 2006, 11:36:30 AM
I can fling pieces with a fork and call that my way of "play chess".

 Apparently, this thread shows how much the meaning of "aerial combat" has been so utterly destroyed by some people that the basic concepts and incentives towards combat flying are almost non-existant.

 All the more the reason to bring the MA into structure, so that people who keep to WW2 aerial combat principles and doctrines as faithfully as possible are rewarded, and the dweebs who ignore it go punished.
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: Jester on November 26, 2006, 01:33:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag

i ALWAYS try and bring it home...... im trying to play realisticaly. but so many are from the "instant action" crowd that constantly moan about 10miles being too far to fly for action etc etc etc.

well play counterstrike or something.


I am with Overlag on this one.............

IMHO, AH has really moved away from the "WW2 Combat Sim" it was started as. The "Furballers" have pretty much taken over.  Maybe when CT comes out it will bring it back into something resembeling a WW2 combat flight sim.

!
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: EagleDNY on November 26, 2006, 02:46:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Why not? Because that unevens the playing field. When 2 virtual pilots compete in 2 identical P51Ds the outcome should be up to the pilot skill, NOT the fact that 2 identical planes flew with a large performance disparity.

The planes have limits for a reason. They all have the same limits. If you want a plane that's FASTER fly a different plane. If you want one that's more nimble you fly a different plane. You don't aks HTC to "make my plane faster!! OOh, no! Make mine turn better!!".


Yes, the planes do have limits for a reason - its called the aircraft design.  What this would be designed to simulate were the natural variations between individual aircraft of the same type.  These variations were real, and occurred for a number of reasons - the factory in which the aircraft was made, availability of parts, operational considerations, etc.

I'll give you an example - pop open a Jane's and look up the Me-109G14.  Depending upon when & where it was made, these "identitical" aircraft had 6 different DB605 engine variants, utililizing 2 different power-boosting units, and a variety of ordnance packages including a weirdo 96 x 2Kg bomblets package.  Put 2 of these side by side, and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference from the outside, but I guarantee you they would perform differently.

Another example: the P38 - throughout the long development of the P38 there were a great number of engine changes, flaps & controls changes, and changes in armament.  The P-38H is essentially a P-38G with a pair of Allison F17s which had another 100hp.  Depending upon when you got your P-38J, you might or might not have the electrically operated dive flaps and the aileron boost system that was developed.  You can find pictures of P-38Ls with both the 10-rocket and the 14-rocket racks on their wings.

I don't see these as 'large performance disparities", and I don't think they make the playing field any more uneven than naturally occurs in combat when  someone comes in with a superior aircraft, energy state, or position.  If 2 identically skilled pilots come up against each other, the guy that has been taking care of his ride has a slight edge over the guy that didn't.  

IMHO I'd like to see the game developed more as a sim than as a furballing XBox, and I think giving pilots the ability to customize and tune their aircraft would help move it that way.  This doesn't stop anybody from upping their La-7, furballing, bail, rinse, and repeat.  What it might also do is provide incentive for people to customize and master a single ride, which might improve some basic skills along the way.  

EagleDNY
$.02
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: EagleDNY on November 26, 2006, 02:55:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Tilt
Why not be able to buy a "tune up" with perks........... that way earning perks has value........


Maybe - but there are so many lame ways to get perks.  I'm starting to warm to the idea up the thread that you should have to land it to get perks - crash, or get shot down should be 0 perks.  Maybe a bit of perks if you bail or ditch in friendly territory, and nothing if you get captured.

EagleDNY
$.02
Title: Re: Re: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: EagleDNY on November 26, 2006, 03:07:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SuperDud
There is no reason, it's a game. Games are suppose to be fun, not tedious and frustrating. If you guys want to fly to live, that's cool. But some of us don't really care if our pixels make it back to the virtual runway or not.


So it wouldn't make any difference to you - you can up, furball, bail and repeat to your heart's content.  Have fun - thats what it is all about.  I just think that there are some folks who would enjoy seeing some additional goals and natural variations added to the game.    

Tedious and frustrating for some is actually mental exercise for others... maybe I want to find out just how difficult it is to land a P38 on one engine, or see if my shot-up F4U can make it back to the carrier deck in one piece.  If that isn't for you, don't let my curiosity stop you from just bailing & upping again.  

EagleDNY
$.02
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: Overlag on November 26, 2006, 06:38:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
I can fling pieces with a fork and call that my way of "play chess".

 Apparently, this thread shows how much the meaning of "aerial combat" has been so utterly destroyed by some people that the basic concepts and incentives towards combat flying are almost non-existant.

 All the more the reason to bring the MA into structure, so that people who keep to WW2 aerial combat principles and doctrines as faithfully as possible are rewarded, and the dweebs who ignore it go punished.


exactly. AH back in 2002 didnt really suffer from this. however every day i fly i see people bail or crash from perfectly good planes, just to be able to get into a new one faster.

its really sad how many kids "game the game" lately.

also back in 2002 i was probably the youngest in my squad of 10 active players. now im probably the oldest on my country at some points. what has gone wrong?
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: hubsonfire on November 26, 2006, 08:01:49 PM
Return to its roots as a simulation? You mean, when we were flying spitfires against mustangs, and nikis against zekes? You mean when our bombs dropped exactly where the crosshair was? You mean when we could fly from startup to an enemy field without ever touching the controls? You mean when gun positions didn't shake, and planes could land on the water? You mean when we could rearm and refuel in 30 seconds with the engine running and guns firing? You mean when our only engine management was throttle and RPMs?

AH was never a sim.
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: Saxman on November 26, 2006, 10:23:07 PM
Wait wait, when did we get engine management more detailed than throttle and RPM?
Title: I support EagleDNY
Post by: aqhawasi on November 27, 2006, 06:40:43 AM
If you want to game the game, that is fine.  However, what is wrong with rewarding those who accomplish some of the more "tedious" goals of the game.  Rewarding those who up hoping to accomplish their "mission" and making it back home, in one piece or not.  EagleDNY never said that anyone should be penalised.  Nobody is penalised.  Everyone starts on the same level field; however, those who are willing to do the extra credit should get that extra credit.

I, for one, dont like it when I see someone come in with a formation of bombers, a jabo, (fil in the blank), I try and intercept, just to see them bail and/or crash after dropping their bombs/rockets... even if I get the proxy kills... I feel cheated.  Like unsporstmanship conduct.  Not saying they should be penalised, guess it is their prerrogative, but I dont see why they should be rewarded with perk points either.

While the details of this may need some tweaking, I am 120% supportive of the principle.
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: Rikitic on November 27, 2006, 07:57:10 AM
I've always thought, no land-no perks. After all you just lost a valuable asset.

Of course most dont care but thats thier loss. Just opened the flamer door.This will be worth some laughs.
Title: Re: Re: Re: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: macleod01 on November 27, 2006, 08:43:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by EagleDNY

... maybe I want to find out just how difficult it is to land a P38 on one engine, or see if my shot-up F4U can make it back to the carrier deck in one piece.  


Ask Major Biggles. I remember one day in the TA he was testing all of these things. I cant remember his exact results, but a lot ended in a big boom. That was when Lacerate said 'Whenever biggles Laughs, There's an explosion'. So true
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: badhorse on November 29, 2006, 07:00:53 AM
I like the idea but there are folks who would still "game" it.  Take off and land at the same field over and over until the they hit the sortie count they need.
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: skycaptn on November 29, 2006, 07:58:59 AM
If you force players to RTB in order to land kills and earn perkies.. there should be some limitation on other players re-upping in an LA-7 to chase down that player at 450mph on the deck to avoid him landing those kills as payback.

Face it no matter what it will fubar the current system.
Why limit how pplz fly more than its been limited already?
Maybe i dont like ppl flying planes that take more than 2 20mm hits from my zero!!
OMFG!!! HTC NURF THE HURRICANE MKII!!!! ONE TOOK 5 HITS!!!!!
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cry

Get over it.. the system works how it is.
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: EagleDNY on November 29, 2006, 09:03:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by badhorse
I like the idea but there are folks who would still "game" it.  Take off and land at the same field over and over until the they hit the sortie count they need.


Easily fixed if the sortie doesn't count unless it earns perkies.  Will you get lamers who go milk run a city for perkies and land 5 times, probably.  Will their fancy tuned ride last since they didn't develop the skills necessary to keep it alive in actual ACM - probably not.

EagleDNY
$.02
Title: A real reason to bring a ride home...
Post by: EagleDNY on November 29, 2006, 09:18:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by skycaptn
If you force players to RTB in order to land kills and earn perkies.. there should be some limitation on other players re-upping in an LA-7 to chase down that player at 450mph on the deck to avoid him landing those kills as payback.

Face it no matter what it will fubar the current system.
Why limit how pplz fly more than its been limited already?
Maybe i dont like ppl flying planes that take more than 2 20mm hits from my zero!!
OMFG!!! HTC NURF THE HURRICANE MKII!!!! ONE TOOK 5 HITS!!!!!
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cry

Get over it.. the system works how it is.


What I'm wishing for is a system that works better.  Does "Up, Furball, Bail" work?  Yeah, but it is a pretty lame situation.  Suicide jabos and bailing bombers might always be with us, but we can give folks an incentive not to do it.  

I wouldn't worry much about someone you shot down trying to up and chase you down.  A) they probably can't catch you since you have alt and a head start, and B) if they do catch you and you shoot them down again, you get the bonus of knowing that you TOTALLY PWNED THEM.

Also - IMHO - the game isn't lessened much by having the XBox Furball limited to stock no perkie rides.  Most of them are flying La-Las and Spixteens anyway, and don't need perkies in the first place.

EagleDNY
$.02