Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: wrongwayric on November 28, 2006, 03:52:43 AM
-
Part of the flaw to the new update as i see it is the "eny "restriction in the early areanas. When you supposedly have "historicallly" correct, some debate there, aircraft flying against each other. You limit what planes we can up, then you put another limit and restriction on us because of the number of players? wtf is that? There have been times when 1 knit on, 3 bish, and 9 rook. Now suddenly rook can only up 1, maybe 2 planes?
Hordes have been a problem in the past, but what is a horde? Is a horde a squad who has a mission and plan? I think not! Is a horde a select group of players that log on all at once just to see who can get the most vultches after he and his buddies log on and cap a base with no intention of capture? Yea!!!
If i was going to put a stop to horde's, vultching, i would put a time limit on how long you have to capture a field after initial attack. After limit, full field up's, you have to start all over.
-
I don't like ENY at low roster totals either - which the way it is during my timezone's peak. Roster numbers and ENY limit fluctuate madly. There's not enough people on the map for one country to really dominate another - just a smattering of furballs and half-arsed base-taking.
-
Is it vulching or vulthching?
-
Originally posted by duh
Is it vulching or vulthching?
I'm not sure that there should be a 'ch' in it at all, if it's derived from 'vulture'. Conumdrum!
-
Originally posted by wrongwayric
There have been times when 1 knit on, 3 bish, and 9 rook. Now suddenly rook can only up 1, maybe 2 planes?
.
if you were one of the 9 rooks, then its totaly your fault. ENY is not meant to limit what people can fly, its supposed to force you to balance numbers. If you fail to balance the numbers and insist on flying with the 9, you pay the price in ENY restriction.
its really very simple.
-
So if he changed to Nits to avoid the penalty, and another 15 nits logged on 15 minutes later, is it still that simple?
-
RTGorkle, yes basically it is, because it would then be up to the 15 knights who logged on to help balance sides again.
Side balance is everyones problem, until everyone learns to do it its going to be a pain in the posterior. Its really not that hard, people who flew regularly in the AvA arena do it all the time. And unlike the AvA, here it doesn't even make you change your ride.
-
Originally posted by Ghosth
RTGorkle, yes basically it is, because it would then be up to the 15 knights who logged on to help balance sides again.
Side balance is everyones problem, until everyone learns to do it its going to be a pain in the posterior. Its really not that hard, people who flew regularly in the AvA arena do it all the time. And unlike the AvA, here it doesn't even make you change your ride.
The difference, though, is that in AvA there is no time limit on side switching. In the MAs you get one switch, basically. At low number times this means that people entering the arena really have to be careful where they go, I would think.
- oldman
-
Originally posted by Ghosth
Side balance is everyones problem, until everyone learns to do it its going to be a pain in the posterior. Its really not that hard, people who flew regularly in the AvA arena do it all the time. And unlike the AvA, here it doesn't even make you change your ride.
Fair enuff. I'm well and truly one of those that's not proactive at side-balancing.... yet. I prefer to fly with my squad and they'd be a diffucult bunch to pick up and move to a different country. If we did manage it we'd sometimes be moving a whole quarter of the Rook roster. Might have to move myself and shoot some of my squaddies down. Always value in that.
Also, anyone know how I can get rid of the stinking "RT" on the front of my Forum handle?
-
Originally posted by Oldman731
The difference, though, is that in AvA there is no time limit on side switching. In the MAs you get one switch, basically. At low number times this means that people entering the arena really have to be careful where they go, I would think.
- oldman
fair point oldman, unfortunately the time limit was put in place mainly because of the petty minded childlike players who would switch sides to find a CV, to bust up an NOE mission, to gain perk points from thw inning team.
ALL the restrictions about ENY and moving sides were FORCED upon HTC by the immaturity of the players.
AvA is a whole different arena, and generaly full of mature fair minded players who dont care about a 'war' or if they are winning it.
Gorkle ya gotta make a new BB account or plead with skuzzy.
-
In the MAs you get one switch, basically.
That's 1 switch per hour ... for me, 1 hour in an arena is a blink of the eye.
-
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
if you were one of the 9 rooks, then its totaly your fault. ENY is not meant to limit what people can fly, its supposed to force you to balance numbers. If you fail to balance the numbers and insist on flying with the 9, you pay the price in ENY restriction.
its really very simple.
The problem with this is the early and midwar arenas are struggling with numbers already. They should do everything they can to encourage folks to go there and with critical mass the balance will sort itself out. You can't reasonably expect folks to switch sides hour by hour to balance out the arena. Those inclined in such direction will do so either way while other will just quit and go to one of the late war arenas with the numbers.
You don't need eny restrictions with low numbers when you have perk point bonus to encourage the same thing. A carrot is much more effective than a stick when you don't have authority.
-
fair point, i just think WE ALL brought these restrictions on ourself, HiTech doesnt get some perverse pleasure out of limiting our fun, he is forced to take action because some players are limiting other players fun if nothing is done.
-
were all rooks on the same Squad? Obviously they had no problem with the eny as no one changed sides to even up teams. Why worry about their eny.
-
I think the arena should place a person on the low team as they log in and therefore automatically balance the sides. If a person then wanted to jump, they would bare the burden of eny. It would be only their fault, as the arena automatically tries to prevent eny from being enacted! Oh, and since Im talking about stuff, hurri2c's should be perked in EW, and only one bomber per pilot (no more formations of three piloted by one person). :aok
-
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
fair point, i just think WE ALL brought these restrictions on ourself.
The problem in self blame is there is no collective self to blame. When social enginering one has to consider human nature. The perk point bonus will encourage folks to switch sides if they have any propensity to do so. The gang bangers will go for the higher numbers anyway and folks like me, who would perfer to fly in the early and midwar arenas won't do so nearly as much since they rarely have critical mass. Every carrot should be used to bring folks in to these arenas lest they languish like the ava arena.
-
Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
You don't need eny restrictions with low numbers when you have perk point bonus to encourage the same thing. A carrot is much more effective than a stick when you don't have authority.
With all due respect, carrot doesn't do anything, or there'd be no ENY restriction in the first place.
-
Originally posted by RTGorkle
Also, anyone know how I can get rid of the stinking "RT" on the front of my Forum handle?
Put an air freshener next to it, then it wouldn't stink.
I believe an email to support @ hitechcreations dot com would be required there.
-
I agree that in the low numbered EW and MW arenas, the ENY balancer can cause some problems. Take last night in EW - there were around 25 nits and 25 rooks on and they were primarily concetrated and having a great fight in the A1/A43 area, but because there were only 9 bish, the ENY would not let either the rooks or the nits take any plane greater than 10. So in this case, some players from both rook and nit would have to switch and be unable to participate in the good fight because the arena needs balance.
Because of the low numbers and large amount of bases in the EW and MW arenas, I don't think we really need to worry about "balancing" as anyone looking for a good fight will do that on their own. If the don't, they will get pretty bored as there will not be anyone to fight!
With the advent to these new arenas, I used to automatically switch to the lowest numbered side when I logged in. However, many times that would mean that I would not be able to find any fights as they would be going on between the two countries with the most numbers. Now, I log in, look to see where the fight is and then switch to the lowest numbered side that is in the fight.
So please remove the ENY limiter unless there are over 100 players in the arena!
-
I personally donn't have a problem with eny in late war, just the early and mid war, those are the ones that are useless with the current small selection of planes.
Wow, donn't get me started on the country switching!:O I think that's one of the most aggravating things here! I'm surprised no one has figured out the way to use the numbers against the successful country/field capture leader yet. :) I do know how to use it against them, but unfortunately can never get the amount of people to join me that would screw the leader. Personally i think if you switch countries, your there for 30 days, no exceptions. That would stop a lot of the spies and cv thiefs in the game.
-
ENY sucks bad when you're the one being pwn'd by it. When it's the other country getting pwn'd and having to fly D3A's, it's music to my ears. Batfink is exactly right, this facet of the game was forced on HT. Look at slapshot's siggy, HT himself spells it out....
HiTech : And please do not tell me AH is war, because it is not, it is a War game. And games are ment to be fun and fair. While war is not ment to be either fair or fun.
I complain constantly on 200 in the MW because the rooks always have at least a 2 to 1 numbers advantage. Of course, I can only speak for the times I log on. But consistenly rooks have numbers. When I bring up the fact that some of them could switch to even it out and help to reduce their ENY punnishment, I usually end up getting a good text beating from the "We're the 1337'est country!, We pwn all Bish and nit. We r teh best eva!" crowd. I have been told in the MW, as Bish are down to three fields and are outnumbered 4 to 1, that it's better when the Bish are down. Of course, this is the same tool that will auger as soon as he gets icon on you.
Anyway, my point is that HTC didn't design this game to be war, as so many of the MW rooks have tried to make as an excuse for their milkrunning, non-fighting tactics. They create this wonderful addiction to be somewhat fair and entertaining for everyone. As it has been said by a very wise man, quote:
Originally Posted by Hubsonfire
If people won't play the game without a huge numerical imbalance in their favor, and will instead log off, I say, "good". Better odds for everyone else.
We need ENY more than we ever have. If anything HT needs to drop the Barbie's Horse Adventure limits, and make it punitive.
my $.02
-
For all you ENY whiners.
As a "I fly for just one side chess piece loyal dweeb." let me give ya some advise.
MAN UP AND GROW A PAIR !
I made my choice now I live with it. I don't do it for king ,country, and glory. I do it because thats what my squad does and I like flying with them. No amount of eny will keep me from flying with my squad and having fun .
If your squad doesn't allow side jumping and you can't have fun with them.
The best solution for you might be bail from the squad.
Either:
Find one you have more fun flying with regardless of conditions.
OR
Find one that jumps sides or doesn't care what side you for.
OR
Lone wolf it a bit.
Eny is there for a good reason .
Whatever side of it I happen to be on I'm still glad it's there.
Bronk
-
When side ratio gets too one sided, offer a free 262 to people who switch :-)
-
Originally posted by wrongwayric
Wow, donn't get me started on the country switching!:O I think that's one of the most aggravating things here! I'm surprised no one has figured out the way to use the numbers against the successful country/field capture leader yet. :) I do know how to use it against them, but unfortunately can never get the amount of people to join me that would screw the leader. Personally i think if you switch countries, your there for 30 days, no exceptions. That would stop a lot of the spies and cv thiefs in the game.
When I was in a squad, I would stay with one country for the sole purpose of flying with squadies. However, I have never had any loyalty to an assigned chess piece and my only concern is finding a good fight - I could care less about base capture and CV's, etc - but that is just my opinion and of course is my right. I would wager that many of the people that switch countries often feel the same way. In fact, I would submit that those that you are complaining about (spies and CV thiefs) are the ones who care the most about their assigned chess piece and do not switch often at all. So just because someone switches countries to the lower numbered sides does not mean they are evil as you would imply...
-
Whats so bad about flying an older ride in a hoard anyway. Gotta use team work when ya'all up in a Hurri 1. :D
-
Some play the game to fulfill the actual parameters that it was designed for, which is to overcome and conquer bases, and eventually the country, thus winning the war/game.
By jumping sides, and no effort to capture or kill anything in the game, you are the furballer/horde people that are the ones i complain about. You have no serious interest in the overall game play, just want to log kills.
I enjoy seeing my kill's go up and my stats getting better also, but i play to capture and overcome the map, not just to up with no purpose in mind and no end goal other than my stats.
1 dimensional thinking, log kills.
3 dimensional thinking, base capture, win war/game, check stats.
I guess this is a debate that could go on forever, as we both pay to play as we like.
It's "rock em sock em robots" V.S. "risk"!:lol
-
Some play the game to fulfill the actual parameters that it was designed for, which is to overcome and conquer bases, and eventually the country, thus winning the war/game.
This is a false assumption.
The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat. Conquering bases is just a means to promote combat and hence fun. But by no means is it more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up.
HiTech
-
Originally posted by hubsonfire
With all due respect, carrot doesn't do anything, or there'd be no ENY restriction in the first place.
You are transposing a response to one situation on another. My point is that you need enough people to make ENY have a point. With too few in the arena mere queing theory makes it a excercise in frustration. This is why I'm advocating doing whatever possible to increase the numbers in the EW and MW arenas by not inflicting pain on those few present. You don't want people just going somewhere else because they are pissed about eny limiter that flips back and forth when a few people come and go every few mins. You need critical mass to make it viable and the APPLE (Arrogance Produces Profit Losing Enterprise) approach will do little to build that mass.
-
Originally posted by hitech
This is a false assumption.
The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat. Conquering bases is just a means to promote combat and hence fun. But by no means is it more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up.
HiTech
Now that's a Sig if I ever saw one!
-
Rabbit, if you can find a way to lure people into an arena while retaining 1:3:9 odds with no penalties, restrictions, or balancing mechanisms, you're a pretty smart guy.
Whether it's 1:3:9 or 100:300:900, the low numbered side is getting the shaft. I don't see any benefit in trying to screw them over more, or the high numbers side any less. There is no reason whatsoever to rationalize lopsided country populations, no matter how large or small.
-
You basically have 2 games going on at once. This in and of itself creates the problems most of us complain of. You have people who want nothing more than to furball/mix it up as you call it, fine. But you have people who want to play the game as a "risk" base game, which captures lead to the eventual completion of the game.
Until you figure out how to split the 2 from the same arena, 1 will always interfere with the other. This creates easy kills for the kill/stat flier, and nothing but headaches and bad blood for the "risk" type player. The kill/strat player has no mission and nothing to lose by attacking. He defends no base, attacks no base for no other purpose than to furball/vultch. Great life there, nothin to lose.
Were does the fun for all factor kick in when your being shot down by someone who has no mission in the game?
I drive 100 miles to work every day, that is my mission, to get to work, what if i go out and get hit head on by a kid just running around for the fun of it because he had nothing better to do? Who won the game there?
-
I drive 100 miles to work every day, that is my mission, to get to work, what if i go out and get hit head on by a kid just running around for the fun of it because he had nothing better to do? Who won the game there?
I believe neither won in your case, but it does in no way say your "mission" is better because you are driving 100 miles, vs the person who's mission is just to enjoy his car and the outdoors. Nor should you have to build 2 separate road systems for the 2 different reasons for driving. And really would it make any difference to you if you were hit by someone also on a work mission? Outcome is identical.
He defends no base, attacks no base for no other purpose than to furball/vultch
And it makes no difference what his reasons are. If he is uping from a base and killing people, he is having an influence on the fight and field defense. If he is killing people at a field, he is influencing a base attack.
And as to 2 different games/play styles. There are a lot more than just 2.
-
Originally posted by Ghosth
RTGorkle, yes basically it is, because it would then be up to the 15 knights who logged on to help balance sides again.
Side balance is everyones problem, until everyone learns to do it its going to be a pain in the posterior. Its really not that hard, people who flew regularly in the AvA arena do it all the time. And unlike the AvA, here it doesn't even make you change your ride.
Amen Ghost!
-
Originally posted by Oldman731
The difference, though, is that in AvA there is no time limit on side switching. In the MAs you get one switch, basically. At low number times this means that people entering the arena really have to be careful where they go, I would think.
- oldman
The limit in the EWA, MWA and LWA's is a whole 1 hour. Not tough at all, either switch or deal with the consequences. I have never liked "chesspiece loyalty". When I started in NAZGUL, we'd switch on any given night. I then went to CAF and tried to get the squad to switch for ONE NIGHT and wing with The Flying Circus, "chesspiece loyalty" nixed it. Now, my 3 squaddies switch to help out balancing. A shame others are selfish, but it comes around eventually to bite em.
If one cannot stand to be "Away from their friends for one hour", you should see a shrink because there's something you should be treating.
-
if you are worried about side balance, and dont wana switch sides, switch SERVERS.
whenever i come on to a server and knits have extra players i go else where. I also try to drag my squad and others with me.
-
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Rabbit, if you can find a way to lure people into an arena while retaining 1:3:9 odds with no penalties, restrictions, or balancing mechanisms, you're a pretty smart guy.
Whether it's 1:3:9 or 100:300:900, the low numbered side is getting the shaft. I don't see any benefit in trying to screw them over more, or the high numbers side any less. There is no reason whatsoever to rationalize lopsided country populations, no matter how large or small.
What I am saying is that the dynamics are different when you have 13 people in the arena vs 1300. Even one or two guys logging off will affect the entire dynamic when there is only 20 in total. That dynamic resolves itself with scale and balancing acts using carrots (perk bonus) and sticks (ENY limiter) become more effective. When there is under 150 or so in a respective arena you would be best served by getting those numbers higher and then worry about slapping them around and having less there. Even in a small arena less than 100 or so is pretty imbalanced no matter what because you lack critical mass. Without critical mass you have a bunch hitting one place and just a few defenders while another group outnumbers others elsewhere. Ever notice that it takes so many before there are actually even numbers spread throughout? Thats my opinion.
-
Originally posted by wrongwayric
Some play the game to fulfill the actual parameters that it was designed for, which is to overcome and conquer bases, and eventually the country, thus winning the war/game.
By jumping sides, and no effort to capture or kill anything in the game, you are the furballer/horde people that are the ones i complain about. You have no serious interest in the overall game play, just want to log kills.
I enjoy seeing my kill's go up and my stats getting better also, but i play to capture and overcome the map, not just to up with no purpose in mind and no end goal other than my stats.
1 dimensional thinking, log kills.
3 dimensional thinking, base capture, win war/game, check stats.
I guess this is a debate that could go on forever, as we both pay to play as we like.
It's "rock em sock em robots" V.S. "risk"!:lol
Just because one likes to dogfight (or furball as you call it), does not mean one is a 1 dimensional thinker. You also appear to think that because you like to capture bases and track your stats you are the only one who has a "mission" (as referenced in your other post after this one).
Now, let me assure you that if you are engaged in a furball or dogfight, you'll never get better, or even survive if your thinking 1 dimensionally as you claim. You need to be thinking about where you are in relation to goodguys/badguys/bases/ack, etc, what your opponent will do next (and possibly after that), as well as how you are going to counter it and gain advantage. As for a "mission", my personal mission in AH is to up, fight, learn and get better, and land. If I don't do all of these, then my "mission" has failed. Now, this certainly sounds more "Risk" (yes I used to play this game frequently) like as opposed to "Rock-em/Sock-em Robots.
The real point here is that we are fortunate to have an excellent, affordable, fun game in which many different individual goals can be realized. Don't hate on others because their goals are different than yours.
-
Originally posted by Overlag
if you are worried about side balance, and dont wana switch sides, switch SERVERS.
whenever i come on to a server and knits have extra players i go else where. I also try to drag my squad and others with me.
This is what I do too.
Hate to say it, but I've given up on having balanced arenas altogether. If its 2 big countires and one getting swarmed, I've stopped even trying to help the low side. I'll look for a nice fight or a fun capture (ie not undefended); if I cant find one, I just leave the arena and go somewhere else.
It doesnt help the arena, and it doesnt help the game at all, but that's the hand we've been dealt. I'm playing to have fun, not to enable social justice....even if the society is a game.
I dont see how to do anything else until either there are enough willing to balance things on our own, or until HT changes the system to enforce balancing better somehow or other.
-
Originally posted by Simaril
Hate to say it, but I've given up on having balanced arenas altogether.
same here.
the number 1 issue now, is if a side isnt having fun they goto another server.. making the server (and the server THEY goto unbalanced).
this then leads to making it a race to reset.
some say people are leaving servers because they are getting reset, but its often not the case, you might have 3 even sides all having fun, then slowly side B starts to quit and goto server B. which leads to them loosing ground making more leave. its a vicious circle.
mean while in server B, side B has double the numbers and and side A and C arnt having fun so side A and C start to leave this server to join server A... so now we have
A B C
A: 120:40:120 (B quitting to go B)
B: 40:120:40 (A and C quitting to go A)
utterly silly and still nothing is done about it.
-
Originally posted by Simaril
This is what I do too.
Hate to say it, but I've given up on having balanced arenas altogether. If its 2 big countires and one getting swarmed, I've stopped even trying to help the low side. I'll look for a nice fight or a fun capture (ie not undefended); if I cant find one, I just leave the arena and go somewhere else.
It doesnt help the arena, and it doesnt help the game at all, but that's the hand we've been dealt. I'm playing to have fun, not to enable social justice....even if the society is a game.
I dont see how to do anything else until either there are enough willing to balance things on our own, or until HT changes the system to enforce balancing better somehow or other.
Same here Simaril. I fail to see where its my obligation for the same. I think the "you get put on the side with the lowest numbers in the EW and MW arenas" is a great idea until they reach a critical mass on thier own. You can always switch from there if you want but most won't and that will do far more for balance than ENY or perk bonuses.
-
Did no one see thats 2 post's by HiTech, and No spelling Mistakes. Come on. wheres the real HiTech :)
-
he's probably using Firefox with the built in spell checker.
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by hitech
I believe neither won in your case, but it does in no way say your "mission" is better because you are driving 100 miles, vs the person who's mission is just to enjoy his car and the outdoors. Nor should you have to build 2 separate road systems for the 2 different reasons for driving. And really would it make any difference to you if you were hit by someone also on a work mission? Outcome is identical.
And it makes no difference what his reasons are. If he is uping from a base and killing people, he is having an influence on the fight and field defense. If he is killing people at a field, he is influencing a base attack.
And as to 2 different games/play styles. There are a lot more than just 2.
-
UH let's see, we have secondary roads and primary roads. A primary road is an interstate which was desiged for the transportation of goods and military hardware, at least that was the original design, not for holiday travelers and joy riders. Secondary roads were actually left in place and it was thought that people would use them for that purpose, to take a holiday, sight see, or just to get out and enjoy there ride.
Unfortunately businessmen and women found that by using the interstate they could get to work faster, which was ok, but then the holiday traveler found he could zip to his picked vaction spot faster, still ok, then came the joyrider/killer.
This individual be he drunk or just out for a quick thrill ride made the overall interstate a killing field. He may just zip on at one ramp cut across 3/4 lanes, go 1/4 mile, zip across 3/4 lanes and exit. He doesn't have a mission or purpose and doesn't care who he kills, after all he's just doing his thing. Just out driving his ride, getting a thrill on.
He doesn't care that you will fail in your mission, your family is seriously injured or, god forbid, killed! Remember, he's just doing his thing.
I guess the best thing to do in the game is get rid of the country/base capture, field killing should be impossible. Why have all that if you just want a bunch of us flying around killing each other? Oh ya, might as well disband all the squads to, what the heck no need for co operation, as there is no goal.
We have a dueling arena, why donn't the killers go there? We have a special event arena, why donn't they go there?
-
wrongwayric, what name do you fly under? I want to check something.
(never understood people posting on the bbs and not giving the name they fly under)
-
im pretty sure he flies under 'wrngway' or some other variation of that abreviation. not really his fault that we have 8 letter limit for ingame names.
-
That is possibly the worst analogy ever. I'm trying to see what traffic fatalities and cartoon airplane games have in common, and all I can come up with is that idiots are usually the root of the problem.
Maybe it's a good analogy after all...