Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Yarbles on November 28, 2006, 04:10:47 AM
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Is the quickest way to turn, roll on your side and pull back on the stick until you are about to black out? Do you need or benefit from using the rudder at any point in this manouver?
I have settled on the Spit 16 and notice that other Spits are drawn to it along with the occasional Hurricane and want to have turning fights or bounce it while perhaps along with everthing else it is feared by P51's until they realise what a crap pilot I am. I still think though thst an inexperienced Newbie makes a contribution to the team as in a large battle I distract and draw the enemies attention sometimes having up to four at a time on my tail. But what I want to ask is what do newbies do that piss off more experienced players so I can avoid it?
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Not too many folks like the HO (Head On) shot. There are a few reasons to do it but they are easy to spot.
1. Outnumbered by enough that you are not expecting to last the next few seconds.
2. Trying to shoot down bombers or a goon (C-47).
3. Sometimes base defence, but that is pretty much falls under number 1 above.
4. (kind of) If you are a base taking kind of person and a fighter is up heading toward your goon, but some will frown apon this.
5. If I messed up either in setting up a rope or following a rope and I see him firing at me first, but this is a tricky one. You shouldn't let him get a nice lined up shot on you. Usually this is from an accident by me or the other pilot and they are usually short range, usually less than 600m.
Really just have fun, remember EVERYONE was a n00b at one point. But you will find you learn quite a bit more if you go for the fight rather than HOing.
I am sure lots of folks will drop their two pennies in here also.
Though somtimes after dodging a few HO's by the same person its kind of fun to get that tight angle shot that pops them. :)
Missed your first question....ummm not usually unless you are in a slow plane that likes to turn on a dime and give you change, like a Hurri Mk1 or a A6M. Usually its not a bad idea to make sure you are getting some altitude while you are turning. I've never been much for the textbook of dogfighting manuvers, though I am sure some live by it. Best bet would be to find a trainer in the training arena and work on some basic moves.
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Originally posted by zorstorer
Not too many folks like the HO (Head On) shot. There are a few reasons to do it but they are easy to spot.
1. Missed your first question....ummm not usually unless you are in a slow plane that likes to turn on a dime and give you change, like a Hurri Mk1 or a A6M. Usually its not a bad idea to make sure you are getting some altitude while you are turning. I've never been much for the textbook of dogfighting manuvers, though I am sure some live by it. Best bet would be to find a trainer in the training arena and work on some basic moves.
Do you need to use the Rudder in a climbing turn though? the reason I keep banging on about this is because I have only got the keyboard to control the rudder and its not very sensitive? You also said something about rope?
I also noticed I am just ahead of you in the alphabet and I reckon very slightly less obscure:aok
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Mec, you left out the most important reason for not HOing..... 99% of the time it costs you position and angles. :)
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Using full rudder and aileron to roll will get you on your side quicker. The down side is that it will make the spit16 unstable and may drop you on the ground mighty quick. And it burns off energy quickly too.
Like zorstorer pointed out, very few planes can out-turn a spit. And those that can out-turn you are also slower than the spit and can easily be extended from. The only exception to this is other spits with better pilots, although I will say I've run into p-38 pilots (and one p-47d pilot :aok dadrabit) that have made me sweat a dogfight.
Don't try to chase p-51's or la-7's unless they've burned off energy turning. The chances you'll see that are slim. Those pilots will usually just swoop in from a high alt and shoot everything in their path, then climb again (boom and zoom, or bnz) or HO you. While you're in a spit, I would advise you to never chase a plane "up". Most planes that climb in a dogfight will usually have a better climb rate and more power than your spit. You will loose engery and stall. He will have enough energy to turn and shoot you as you fall. That is called "rope-a-dope" or a rope.
I would stop into the training arena every now and again to see if there's a trainer that can help you with your BCM and ACM. If you're flying in one of the combat arenas, then latch onto a veteran and wing for him. Very few people will turn down a wingman. Just make sure it's an aircraft you can keep up with.
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Originally posted by Yarbles
Is the quickest way to turn, roll on your side and pull back on the stick until you are about to black out?
No, you are thinking in 2 dimentions. The quickest way to turn (so long as you have the speed) is to pull back on the stick, and pull a 1/2 loop up, or bank slightly and pull a 180 degree climbing turn. But what I want to ask is what do newbies do that piss off more experienced players so I can avoid it?
Continuing to shoot at planes after others have shot their wing or tail off does not make friends. They have fatally disabled the plane, but it is possible to steal credit if someone does enough damage to the wreck as it is falling.
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Originally posted by Yarbles
Is the quickest way to turn, roll on your side and pull back on the stick until you are about to black out? Do you need or benefit from using the rudder at any point in this manouver?
I have settled on the Spit 16 and notice that other Spits are drawn to it along with the occasional Hurricane and want to have turning fights or bounce it while perhaps along with everthing else it is feared by P51's until they realise what a crap pilot I am. I still think though thst an inexperienced Newbie makes a contribution to the team as in a large battle I distract and draw the enemies attention sometimes having up to four at a time on my tail. But what I want to ask is what do newbies do that piss off more experienced players so I can avoid it?
Yarbles, yes, theoretically you need rudder to turn. Theoretically because you need it to turn *coordinated* - that means your plane neither skids nor slips (flys "sideways").
You can check that by watching the ball (thats the slip indicator (http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/cptinst2.html)). When it is in center position, your plane is neither skidding nor slipping, your fuselage line and flight path are the same.
Now, watching the ball during a left turn, youll see that it will move left, to the inside of the turn slightly (adverse yaw).... to counter that, youd need to "step on the ball", ie apply a little left rudder to counter that. In Aces High, this is modelled. It requires very fine rudder input (pedals!) - i dont think you can do it with keyboard. But thats not really neccessary anyway - in a dogfight you usually have other things to worry about then turning coordinated, besides skid/slip might even be a good thing (bleed of speed, throw off aim).
Nevertheless, the rudder is a very important control in a fight. It can be used to enhance roll rate (helps your plane roll when applied in same direction as aileron), deliberate sideslipping (speed, aim), can be used to correct your own aim (think of trying to shoot someone in a turn - your nose is a little too high....). You also need it to takeoff (counter torque effects), land (crosswinds, speed) and to taxi while on the ground.
This article (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_001a.html) contains lots more detailed info on rudder. Warning though, slight headache disclaimer :).
Using keyboard control for rudder is not going to be very accurate nor efficient. It probably hurts a lot more then it does good. I recommend that if you plan on subscribing to the game, you get yourself a Joystick with twisty or rocker rudder control. A good beginners stick will cost you about 20-30 USD and make your life 250% easier (for example Saitek 290 from Walmart).
As for being new and pissing off experienced players..... "being new" is good. Weve all been new at one point. Enjoy the game, have fun and strive to get better. Keep asking questions and learn... then youll get better quick.
"piss off experienced players" - well, thats a tad more difficult. Everyone has a different view on how this game should be played and whats acceptable and what not. For example to some a HO is a dweeb, no-skill lame thing to do, to others its a valid and historical tactic. This also throws up the next question, what IS a HO.... Coming in from 3.5k out, straight nosing for the enemy, guns blazing all the way is certainly the kind of HO that falls under no-skill. When coming nose to nose in a close quarter dogfight... shooting now valid? Anyways, i dont want to turn this into (another) Ho or not to HO thread :).
I guess flying straight and level, throttled back so the opponent can catch up is the best way to avoid pissing off anybody :D.
Just play your game and listen to what people say around you. Pay others the same respect youd like to get and youll get along fine. Just you asking this question tells me youll do allright :).
One more thing to remember, dont take anything thrown at you too serious. Flying Spit16 and being new, youre likely to hear a "get some skills Spit dweeb" at one point or another..... thats usually just frustration speaking. "Trash talk" is also part of the game for some. Your choice if you want to partake or not. I prefer to fight with planes and talk with bullets though.
The "quickest" way to turn is not to turn at all, but to go up into half a loop :).
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Originally posted by Schatzi
I guess flying straight and level, throttled back so the opponent can catch up is the best way to avoid pissing off anybody :D.
LOL
One more thing to remember, dont take anything thrown at you too serious. Flying Spit16 and being new, youre likely to hear a "get some skills Spit dweeb" at one point or another..... thats usually just frustration speaking. "Trash talk" is also part of the game for some. Your choice if you want to partake or not. I prefer to fight with planes and talk with bullets though.
I am English and dont know what a "Dweeb" is luckily. I would be more concerned if someone called me a W-nker, which I dont think is a profanity in the US as I have heard it on the Simpsons. It means an inddividual who speaks or acts in a way that suggests they have delusions about their own status or abilities. This sort of behaviour usually leads to them being figuratively "shot down in flames" or in the case of AH literally. So know problems there except I have noticed some use of the radio as a personal PA system, does that eventually give you the right to shoot at someone on your own side for the common good?
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Originally posted by Yarbles
So know problems there except I have noticed some use of the radio as a personal PA system, does that eventually give you the right to shoot at someone on your own side for the common good?
LoL, i wish :D.
Unfortunatly KS is always on in the MAs. But if someone gets overly abusive/personal, take a screenshot (CTRL S) or film it - film also records voice! - (ALT R) and email it in to Skuzzy/HTC. They take care of it. Another thing you can use (additionally) is the report chat/voice function (right click name on roster to select report).
Dweeb (http://dict.die.net/dweeb/) :)
PS: Look me up in the Main Arenas if you want a wing or in the TA for some training anytime.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
LoL, i wish :D.
Dweeb (http://dict.die.net/dweeb/) :)
PS: Look me up in the Main Arenas if you want a wing or in the TA for some training anytime.
When you on the Arena again, dont expect much chat yet I haven't got a microphone and dont know how to do text either but I,ll hang around on your wing trying not to look stupid and maybe learn Schatzi check 6.
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I cant give you a mic, but i can help you with the "dont know how to chat" part:
http://www.netaces.org/ahradio/radio.html#title
Also, you can use dot commands (named because of the period they start with) to check if someone is online:
.f GameID
.p GameID
Open your chat box with / key, then type .f schatzi and hit ENTER. The Hub will tell you if im online and in which arena if yes. To send a message to me while im in a different arena, use the pager. / to open chat again, then .p schatzi Hello Schatzi, want to wing some? ENTER.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
I cant give you a mic, but i can help you with the "dont know how to chat" part:
http://www.netaces.org/ahradio/radio.html#title
Also, you can use dot commands (named because of the period they start with) to check if someone is online:
.f GameID
.p GameID
Open your chat box with / key, then type .f schatzi and hit ENTER. The Hub will tell you if im online and in which arena if yes. To send a message to me while im in a different arena, use the pager. / to open chat again, then .p schatzi Hello Schatzi, want to wing some? ENTER.
Ill try all this and get a mic, what does a wing man do? historically they fly a little way back and above and spend allot of time lookingbehind I think. Isit the same in AH.
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Fastest way to reverse your angle of heading by 180 degrees (U turn) is NOT BY TURNING LEFT OR RIGHT!!!!
Fastest way to reverse heading by 180 degrees is by doing a Immelman.
Not only is it faster but it also conserves energy.
Flat turn is one of the most energy in effective manouverse you can do.
Tex
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Originally posted by Yarbles
Ill try all this and get a mic, what does a wing man do? historically they fly a little way back and above and spend allot of time lookingbehind I think. Isit the same in AH.
Winging can mean a lot of things. From loose "flying together" to strict wingman tactics (with assigned leader).
To me it generally means upping together at a base, usually same/similar planes. Then heading to the intercept/fight together. It means working together to defeat the enemy... watching and clearing each others six, dragging an opponent for your wing, etc etc - basically: communicating.
Is Yarbles your ingame name too?
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Originally posted by Schatzi
Winging can mean a lot of things. From loose "flying together" to strict wingman tactics (with assigned leader).
To me it generally means upping together at a base, usually same/similar planes. Then heading to the intercept/fight together. It means working together to defeat the enemy... watching and clearing each others six, dragging an opponent for your wing, etc etc - basically: communicating.
Is Yarbles your ingame name too?
Yes it is, and I have a mic now but will have to get it working some how from around 21.00 GMT so if I can get anything working I will look for you out there. Will probably have a go around 18.00 as well but without the mic but happy to have a go at finding you from then on.
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Hi Yarbles,
i am German and i have a hard time to understand english, for the case that i did not understand correct what you intended to explain please forgive me.
Now, if i did see that correctly there are about 3 or 4 questions in your initial post, which will put this thread verry lengthy and complicated, since most posts will adress parts of some questions and others will refer to replys further away without makeing it evident which question is targeted or which reply. It is probably easier and more rewarding if you focus on one theme.
The fastest way to turn around is, as others have noted, to pull up on the stick and do a halve loop close to blackout. What i did not read anywhere is that if you cut throttle you will turn around eaven faster in some cases but loose a lot of energy.
Others already hinted it, i will try to make it more clear, turning around fast wont win you the battle in a lot of cases, so while it is good to know you will have to learn more about merging/energy/angle/trading AND also being able to apply it in the heat of the combat. I for example know some of it but get slaughterd the whole day long because i can not apply it and have a hard turn learning since i dont fly enough.
While using the rudder will help you in some cases I think you can get far by flying the spit16 more or less without it, but it really helps to dodge the enemy (got to see him first though). Roll rate with the spit16 is plenty, so I think it is not necessary to use the rudder there. But you need it in stabilizing low speeds, aiming, dodging, slowing down etc.
Trying to shoot down the enemy as fast as you can during the turn fight is not a bad plan. But if you pull for a shot, miss it and then loose your position you will loose. What i am trying to say is that trying to shoot from any position is NOT working, since you miss 90% and then get shot down because of bad position.
Trying to get a killing shot in bouncing a furball, unweary pilot or a bomber is a good plan, but when your in a fight and always try to pull for a shot youll loose. You need to get a feeling where the line between "pressing for a kill" and "forcing a shot with no chance" is.
There is also a way to fight and engage where you always FORCE a HO attack, if you time your engagement and turns that you always get straight on HO passes on the enemy. That will give you some frustration since the enemy will shoot there often. Then you think evryone HOs you but in fact your flying forces a direct HO merge of the other pilot.
When an enemy con is desperately trying to fight 3 of your friends and you come in to bounce him, that will generate some evil blood since the enemy is probably unhappy with the situation and the friendlies are also unhappy because you got the kill without taking the risk.
Also killing an already disabled plane will not make you friends, shoulder shooting is not nice if you dont give a warning and diving between a friendly and an enemy, so that the friendly kills himself with his gun fire, is a bad idea. If you overtake someone who is already shooting it is nice to give him a warning so he doesnt killshoot himself.
Dont worry to much about the complains you get from the enemy... often when someone gets shot down he is unhappy with that situation and will vent his anger, no matter if your kill was perfectly ok or an unfair, cherry picking, HO, hording vulch.
Most times it is, anyway no one will read up until here, good to think a second about what you DID that caused the complain, think how you would have felt in the other guys situation. Having perfectly saddled on your kill and dieing to killshooter after 10 minuts of fight because someone dives into the killing shot i think that guy was not nice. But getting should down with 6 kills while getting coffee will sure make me angry, but its probably a fair kill nevertheless.
ciao schutt
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Originally posted by Schatzi
Winging can mean a lot of things. From loose "flying together" to strict wingman tactics (with assigned leader).
To me it generally means upping together at a base, usually same/similar planes. Then heading to the intercept/fight together. It means working together to defeat the enemy... watching and clearing each others six, dragging an opponent for your wing, etc etc - basically: communicating.
Is Yarbles your ingame name too?
That is a pretty nice description, i want to add there that if one of the wingmans calls for a RTB or repositioning the other one either comes with him or clearly states when he needs help to come free OR thinks hes lost and the requesting pilot should try to rtb alone. Also if one of the wingies dies the winging in AH2 is usually over for me (unless otherwise agreed upon in for example a training situation), because it takes to long to wait for the other guy to RTB. Also requesting the pilot that got killed to reup and come back is not always helpfull due to diffrent fuel states and the time needed. When he WANTS to do that it is surely nice, but I dont expect it.
When a squad says "squad night all fly as pairs and praktice winging" or you agree with someone to wing for the evening thats something diffrent.