Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: B@tfinkV on November 28, 2006, 01:15:14 PM
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ok, for the first time since i started playing aceshigh nearly 4 years ago....i actualy got pissed off about something today.
Flying an F4U-1C around a sleepy sector looking for good one on ones.
found a higher 190, and after a good struggle i managed to bust his engine, and let him float down to ditch.
hurray, good fight.
now whats this? a co-alt F4u coming towards me, oh good another fight. This lone hog and I were the only thing up in the whole sector, i figured must be another hopefull looking for a 1 on 1.
there is nothing else in the aky, and we are flying right towards each other even before icon range.
as we close, 6k, 5k, 4k, 3k, im thinking 'who is it?' 'do i go short or long, do i have the E to rope him or do i choose to cut some power and get in behind?'. 2k.......1.5k......1.0k ok here we go, is he after a ho? no dont think so......800 yrds......woot! another C-hog this will be a good one.....600yrds....he aint shooting, here comes the merge.......400yrds....good luck to you, i can see the pilot angle slightly away so as to merge without ho, i think, i hope......200yrds.....cut power get ready for merge....100yrds....he's still not shooting......50yrds .... the enemy digs his rudder as hard as he can and shoots me right in the face, tearing me to shreds......
now this wasnt a newb who didnt know better, this was someone who has been playing longer than me by a few years.
he KNEW i was avoiding that HO shot, and choose to take his at the last possible minute because he obviously has no confidence in his own fighting tactics other than vulching and ho'ing. yes he vulches alot also, usually in an la7 or spit16 that runs when anyone gets into the air.
to make matters worse, when i call him out for it on ch200 a couple more long term players laugh at his responses " dont fly at me if you dont want to get ho'ed"
these chumps encourage the lamer and make him think its all good.
its not all good, its lame as hell, and you know who you are.
the reason people never learn is because of you retarded 'vets' who firstly think its ok to HO, and then secondly encourage those that do HO to laugh at the more sporting people who will merge cold 99% of the time.
i dont care anymore, but i did get pretty annoyed at the time, which only made the idiots who encouraged the ho'er to laugh at me some more.
in a furball or multiple con engagement its less of a problem, you know its going to happen....
...but to have a long term player of the game fly at me from 6k and then take a ho shot with his 4X20mm cannons at the last minute when he KNEW that i wasnt going to shoot.......thats just cheap lame and pathetic and testement to why this game sucks donkey balls at times.
rant over.
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Preaching to the choir.
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not even preaching, i dont expect anyone to change, and i DO expect to be flamed.
surfice to say ive lost any virtual respect i had for about 4 or 5 long term players, today.
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Lots of guys say they don't HO but do when no one is looking.
But I would say that i've had more instances now where folks aren't HO'ing on the merge nearly as much as it was happening previously.
I still get clobbered on occasion, sometimes cause I misjudge the time to duck, but more often then not it's just one of those cannon birds getting the one hit as I try and slide out of the way and boom down I go.
I still get a new plane so it's all good in the end.
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WTG Hub!!
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it wasnt hub, I know that hub enjoys a good fight, win or lose.
i got a new plane too and i have been ho'ed 10,000 times before..
its just friggen pathetic when you are the only two planes in the sector, and you fake a cold merge untill the last possible second.
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WTG Jaxxo?
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Bat, perhaps they're trying to rile you up, as you have tried to do to others in the past?
This is the pot shrieking about the kettle being black, and that is what's pointless.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
This is the pot shrieking about the kettle being black
LOL Lev gonna kick your arse for that.
I'm telling on you.
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you should not get mad at him.... this possibly was the best of his abilities. Long term play hardly makes one a pro. Many learn very little. He evidently learned he has an uncanny ability to HO with everything else secondary. Seeing he was probably outclassed since his ride was not eons more uber he took his best way out.
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you got pawned, but what is really funny is you went looking for a 1 v 1 in a uber c-hog :D
i Ho because the noobs keep turning their nose at me and wont give me a nice 6 shot and if i get a chance i ram them, it really upsets them.:D
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Funny... blaming the other one in a 2-player HO for you not squeezing your own trigger :D
If you dont want to get shot in a HO, dont fly towards the other planes nose, or go to DA and set up a duel with rules.... "only shooting heroically from behind is allowed" :p
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if in ma regardless of the situation if u gave me a shot at the merge i would have taken it ;) .. u probably pulled a tad too soon trying to get an advantage on the next pass but he caught ya..
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ya i thought that was about as thought provoking as you guys would be.
there is a big difference between swinging your nose round and finding someone coming head on shooting you, and flying level at each other from beyond icon range and 'faking' the cold merge untill last second.
IF you are so clueless that ho'ing is your best attack, then have the bollocks to start shooting from 800yrds and give them the chance to shoot back or avoid. I could have easily shot him back if he hadnt 'played dead' till the last possible second.
i love a fight when we both have a shot, we both thinking, 'uh oh, am i about to get ho'ed' and then we both merge cold and start a fight. that is the top end of enjoyment in this game
" hey, we both coulda ho'ed, but by god im gunna outfly you first beotch!!1 And if i cant, i'll ask for you to teach me what i did wrong"
but then, its more fun to laugh at someone like me for my 'whine' rather than be brave enough to stand up and say what you think no matter what people will reply.
i shouldnt expect anything else, the vast majority of humans in general are thoughtless morons with nothing but self interest at heart. pretty much the same in this community.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
not even preaching, i dont expect anyone to change, and i DO expect to be flamed.
surfice to say ive lost any virtual respect i had for about 4 or 5 long term players, today.
Bat, my list grows everyday.
Yesterday afternoon, after being around A5 in a Tony. I encounter 5-6 enemy dots at 12k with myself being the only Rook around and at 7k. They refused to fight and only climbed higher. I then rtb'd and offered a free vulch to a Knight at the field, he didn't take me up on it.
I then went to the center island hoping to beat the bushes for a lousy fight. I roll a Spit 8, and see a Spit 9, "Great! now someone wants to fight". I get on his 6 rather easily and the brain said "this is too easy", lo and behold a Niki is 2.5k on my 6. I turn towards the Niki as I'm no longer concerned with the Spit. I dodge a HO by the Niki, then the Spit "tries" to blindside me. I've now had enough and rtb. Mind you the ONLY planes up over TT were Bish 24's, the Niki, Spit and myself.
Now I hear on hear on 200. "Karaya I know yer better than that." To which I reply "I didn't see you calling off the Niki?" "Now yer mad because you got 0 points for a proxy kill (I hit a tree) and I didn't fall for your rope." "I didn't even see the Niki." "To see ME, he saw the Niki, and furthermore, they both dove after me."
Long story short, Liars have now made up the majority of the Arenas. They lie to save face rather than be truthful and say "Yeah, I was hoping you'd take the bait since I cannot fight 1 vs 1." Wondering why lying now has become the standard in the Arenas. Kind of pathetic if you ask me.
<> Bat
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:cool:
:aok
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Bat, dont you really see why people are amused? Your whine is nothing more than another "everyone should play like I do" post.
Honestly... "Faking a cold merge"??? ... at MA? :D
I bet you are a great stick, but you'll have much more fun if you wont expect anything from the various kinds of players at MA. Everyone has their own fun.
Best of luck for yor future merges :aok
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Another thing, I've now noticed folks using "Tactics derived from Last Friday's Dogfights Episode", are now pawning it off as Gospel, and "I already knew that."
Sad.
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Did you film this Batty? I am not questioning what you claim. I would just be interested to see how it looked on both ends.
Dave
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I haven't been hoed for months.I never go for a straight hth as i always expect being hoed.Maybe the best solution is just to avoid head to head, no matter who you fight against?
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thank you karaya, you've always been proud to state your opinion even when you kow it wont be agreed with.
nomak, sadly no, i didnt film. maybe the player in question did and would like to post showing exactly why he thoughtit was a fair move to do. if he has a point that i can see i would gladly relent and appologise.
and yes, blauk, i do have alot of fights with people that 'cold merge'
its not so bad you should try it.
i'm nothing more than an average fighter in this game, but i hold a few things dear to me.
having the balls to fight past the HO is one thing i respect alot.
good luck on my future merges?
screw that im flying 190s and tempests from now on and HO'ing everyone. :D
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
screw that im flying 190s and tempests from now on and HO'ing everyone. :D
Thats pretty hard if your enemy decides not to HO you back, u know ;)
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Bat:
I'm no ace, but I'm wondering how he got that shot if you did a good lead turn (vertical or horizontal)?
When I see someone minimizing separation (ie coming right at me) I generally never let them that close before starting the immel variation. The guys who want to HO pull hard for a lead shot that just ISNT gonig to happen, and when I come over the top they've blown so much E that they're easier meat than even their now demonstrably low skill levels would predict.
Good players respond to the lead turn with their own maneuvers, and generally shoot me down within 60-90 seconds....but that's another story.
Anyway, in my limited experience I cant remember offering a HO opportunity except when i madea mistake.
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Originally posted by duh
I haven't been hoed for months.I never go for a straight hth as i always expect being hoed.Maybe the best solution is just to avoid head to head, no matter who you fight against?
There are certain planes that I just expect a head-on from: Hurri IIC, 110G, the FWs, the Nik, and the Cannon Corsair. (Oddly, Typhoon pilots don't seem to do it as much as I'd expect.)
I've often said that I see nothing paticularly wrong with head-on attacks, but I appreciate Batfink's distress when he thought he was going to get a serious fight and instead got a sucker punch. I guess you just make a mental black mark next to the opponent's name.
- oldman
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The best fights are those that require you to push yourself and your virtual ride to the limits....
I just whish all of them could be like that....
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"the enemy digs his rudder as hard as he can and shoots me right in the face, tearing me to shreds......"
I hate to say it but, pretty cool tactic. He faked you into a "no HO" so you did not bother with more separation. Did he counter his rudder with opposite airelons for a side slip?
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Another thing, I've now noticed folks using "Tactics derived from Last Friday's Dogfights Episode", are now pawning it off as Gospel, and "I already knew that."
Sad.
theres a big difference from a p40 hoing a paper jap plane to this situation.. though i'd like to see the film too.. i just dont see why they'd wait till D50 to fire.. u had to of givin em something to shoot during the merge.. well thats just my theory anyways :D ..
I normally wouldnt shoot but many times when ive merged with something they'd mistakenly pull up almost right infront of me and give me a full belly target and i end up shooting their tail off. or if they try to dve under me i'll roll over and shoot the canopy.. either way fair shots imo considering the ma enviroment..
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well well well, whaddaya know. i did film it.
http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/niceHO.ahf
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Originally posted by TW9
theres a big difference from a p40 hoing a paper jap plane to this situation.. though i'd like to see the film too.. i just dont see why they'd wait till D50 to fire.. u had to of givin em something to shoot during the merge.. well thats just my theory anyways :D ..
I normally wouldnt shoot but many times when ive merged with something they'd mistakenly pull up almost right infront of me and give me a full belly target and i end up shooting their tail off. or if they try to dve under me i'll roll over and shoot the canopy.. either way fair shots imo considering the ma enviroment..
I understand and agree, my point is this game has gone from "Fighting" to "Playstation Mentality". Why fight when you can either (http://www.smiley-channel.de/grafiken/smiley/camping/smiley-channel.de_camping001.gif)
or (http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/v185/MemoryLane/bolt.gif)
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
there is a big difference between swinging your nose round and finding someone coming head on shooting you, and flying level at each other from beyond icon range and 'faking' the cold merge untill last second.
i dunno that rudder kick at the last second and getting hits on target - sounds pretty pro to me...
kinda like a faking punt for a touchdown for the win if ya ask me....:rofl
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Skill is the learned ability to bring around predetermined results with the maximum efficiency and minimum effort
Pretty much sums it up. :)
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what you describe bat has happened to me before and they always come up with lame excuses like "it takes 2 to HO" i have played for about 10 months and i learned to not ho after 3 months. and im sure people like skyrock,airsys,wmlute ,widewing, and even you bat can see how well i learned to actually fight.
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sonic you are far beyond the 'virtual skill' level of most, i know ou shot me down alot in a spit5.
well, i have linked the film a couple posts up.
what do you all think?
http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/niceHO.ahf
personaly i view that as 100% HO with no regard for having a good fight.
what you all have to understand about me is, should he have reversed and beaten the snot out of me on the next turn, i woulda shouted SALUTE good kill.
its not about losing the fight, losing perks, or virtual ego.
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That was sad and it WAS a HO.
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i must have been viewing something different cause all i seen was him shooting ur tail off.. not even close..
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OK, who is the bad guy? I cant see the film at work. Please????
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sucks bat.
only thing i would be concerned with 2 f4u1cs in a merge would be a HO.
if you didnt move (enough) and he gambled and got lucky maybe next time he wont get so lucky and you can show him how to fight proper.
havent watched the film but i can picture it as its happened to me before but these threads need names.....
Bruv
~S~
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
well well well, whaddaya know. i did film it.
http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/niceHO.ahf
I watched the film from both your "perspectives". I did not see the rudder kick you described. It was difficult to make out when watching the film from "your" plane. But when I watched it from "the other plane's front", it appeared that you dove underneath and were beginning a rolling climb and pulled up right in front of his guns giving a snap cross shot of your fuselage. He took the shot and took off your plane's tail section.
However, the one issue I see when watching the film: After you began the climb, you pulled in front of his nose. He banged off a few rounds in the snapshot that appeared to miss and you were then clear of his gunsight and front end. Yet, the computer started scoring hits and knocked off your tail after it appeared your were safely clear. There were clearly tracer rounds firing off underneath you after you passed. On the film the snap shot clearly appeared late.
I summation, I did not see the blatant HO, but I also did not see how the snapshot scored hits that sent your tail away from the rest of the plane. So, from your perspective, I can see where you thought he had performed a cheap rudder kick on a skilless shot.
I don't know either of you and have no dog in this fight, but I thought I might, as an outsider, offer an unbiased perspective. Take it for what it is worth and with a grain of salt.
:aok
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Anyone who hos is just proving they are out of skill. All the rest are just blowing smoke out yer aholes.
Ohh I like to hear the whines - Translation "I ho cause I gots no skillz or ballz and am afraid to die in real fight"
The Ohhh it takes two to ho - Translation "I usually don't get into fights 1 v 1 and if its 2 v 1 I am on the 2 side." This mentality has never been a lone fighter in a 4 v 1 pulling angles for 5 mins while all the other guys can do is ho. And they have never cold merged in their life.
:rolleyes:
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In the MAs, flying directly at the other guy's shooty end, and assuming the other guy isn't going to shoot you, simply because you don't want him to, is stupid.
Do we all pretty much agree on that?
And Quah is right. I have never DAed, I've never merged cold, I've never outmaneuvered anything, or won any kind of fight in any kind of odds. I too just fly around and shoot people in the face because they haven't got enough SA or cartoon brains to get out of my way. I may not have huge swollen cartoon balls, but at least I'm not ****ing stupid, and I'm happier that way.
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I never (rarely) head right at a guy just for that reason. I will HO if...the guy is in a fast plane and just wants to pick, and offers no fight. Yeah..then I'll go out of my way to give him a faceful of double aught.
Theres people in here who enjoy finding a "sleepy sector" ( i like that term) and just doing some one on one or even 2 on 1. Then theres the guys who rely on horsepower to do the fighting for them. Then theres the guys who just pick till the cows come home. Lastly theres the guys who never really fight except HO and vulch.
They know their abilities in the game, and do what they can to get a kill. It doesnt bother them a bit. Best thing to do is just bite yer lip, and go back and find him and kill him.
Remember the ancient Klingon proverb...revenge is a dish best served cold.
I used to think that meant to be cruel and cold hearted while conducting the revenge, but later figured out it meant to cool off, and take the time to find the best revenge on him you can.
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Originally posted by BugsBunny
OK, who is the bad guy? I cant see the film at work. Please????
akelfy, i would call it a HO
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It does take 2 to HO , don't set yourself up for it if you don't want it to happen. Other than that , this post is a pointless whine , go to the dueling arena if you want a fair fight.
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Nope ... don't consider it an HO ... only cause you didn't have a guns solution and without that ... it's simply a high angle deflection shot.
Now ... from what I can see you assumed, and for the life of me I can't understand it, that both of you were going to do a DA cold merge.
Also, you merged way too close setting yourself up for such a move, especially in the MA. In the MA, I give myself plenty of separation which does not allow someone to pull that move.
I hate to say it Bat but you set yourself up for it ... especially due to the fact that you had no clue as to who was in the other plane. Had you 2 talked over 200 prior to the fight, then I could see the anger ... but not under these circumstances.
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It seems that AH is becoming more of a first person shooter and less about Air Combat Maneuvering.
The HO is the biggest turnoff in this game. Air Warrior had the right idea in dealing with the HO and made it more about maneuver than about lots of cannon.
I now fly less and Osti more. I would be curious to know what percentage of the Arena is flying cannon equipped birds. I would venture that it is on average 75%.
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I too have no respect for someone who head fakes like he's not going to HO but instead go for a conventional merge then pulls for a HO at the last second. To me that indicates a person who doesn't really want to fight, but not only that, is so insecure about the HO crapshoot he doesn't want to pre-emptively telegraph his intention to HO for fear of reciprocation from someone who may have better aim/luck... So, in a way, he is worse than the pure Ho-rat.
My personal philosophy is this. I enjoy fights I love to fight but if I have no other viable option I will HO. There are occasions where the correct move is to HO. An example would be on a rope where the great climbing turny plane has just enough E left to nose up and spray in your direction as you are coming over the top for a shot. In that situation you have gravity assist on your side and he has gravity fighting him causing his nose to bounce all over. In that situation you almost always want to take that HO rather than blowing some more E relative to him to try for a more favorable attack position. Another situation where HO'ing is the right move is if you're engaged with a lightly armed plane like the fm2 or p51b who is determined to sacrafice E/angles for the HO and you are in a heavy cannon plane with little or no opportunity to manuever for a rear quarter shot. I'll almost always olidge that type.
Generally speaking, someone who has other viable options, especially in a co-alt/co-e same plane encounter, but still HO's, is devoid of imagination, totally inept, or stupid, or some combination of those three. Why would anyone gamble 50/50 when they could fight unless they believe their chance of winning an even fight is less than 50/50, which is a self-admission they suck. By taking the HO in those situations, they guarentee they will always suck and never improve...
Zazen
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Originally posted by john9001
you got pawned
i Ho because the noobs keep turning their nose at me and wont give me a nice 6 shot and if i get a chance i ram them, it really upsets them.:D
your a lamer no skill! Don't post in this thread! You are outclassed to say the least!
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Originally posted by NCLawman
I watched the film from both your "perspectives". I did not see the rudder kick you described. It was difficult to make out when watching the film from "your" plane. But when I watched it from "the other plane's front", it appeared that you dove underneath and were beginning a rolling climb and pulled up right in front of his guns giving a snap cross shot of your fuselage. He took the shot and took off your plane's tail section.
However, the one issue I see when watching the film: After you began the climb, you pulled in front of his nose. He banged off a few rounds in the snapshot that appeared to miss and you were then clear of his gunsight and front end. Yet, the computer started scoring hits and knocked off your tail after it appeared your were safely clear. There were clearly tracer rounds firing off underneath you after you passed. On the film the snap shot clearly appeared late.
I always overestimate angular advantage by around 20% to account for net lag. It sux seeing tracers fly past your plane and then parts fall off.
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Originally posted by megadud
akelfy, i would call it a HO
:rofl The way Bat described it, I thought it was someone good :lol
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Originally posted by BlauK
Funny... blaming the other one in a 2-player HO for you not squeezing your own trigger :D
If you dont want to get shot in a HO, dont fly towards the other planes nose, or go to DA and set up a duel with rules.... "only shooting heroically from behind is allowed" :p
Another loser comment! Its a game. There were only two in the sector! Why play a game and win by HO! HO is like turning the chess board over while you have one more pwn than the other guy! IT's idiot behavior in this game where the fight is what is being simulated! Anyone who has been playing this game for more than two years and HO's in that situation is a coward virtual game player! I will say to Bat , however, don't give the idiot coward the opportunity next time.
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Originally posted by TW9
if in ma regardless of the situation if u gave me a shot at the merge i would have taken it ;) .. u probably pulled a tad too soon trying to get an advantage on the next pass but he caught ya..
Are you saying you would have taken that shot in that situation? LMAO! What kind of gratification on God's earth might you get from "winning" that way?? Or is it just a stat to you? Just asking!
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youre right 031(and others) i should not put myself in 'that' situation if i know the other guy will shoot. And may i take this oppertunity to appologise for hoing you the other day in that furball :p
the points people make that this isnt aHO situation regarding me not having guns on are invalid. i choose, quite clearly not to bring my nose on target, its not like i didnt have 6000yrds to decide to if i was that way inclined.
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Originally posted by 2Slow
"the enemy digs his rudder as hard as he can and shoots me right in the face, tearing me to shreds......"
I hate to say it but, pretty cool tactic.
Another lamer response! Anyone who would enjoy winning a one on one, by HOing on the first merge, in a sector devoid of planes is a bush league player in my opinion!
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
youre right 031(and others) i should not put myself in 'that' situation if i know the other guy will shoot. And may i take this oppertunity to appologise for hoing you the other day in that furball :p
the points people make that this isnt aHO situation regarding me not having guns on are invalid. i choose, quite clearly not to bring my nose on target, its not like i didnt have 6000yrds to decide to if i was that way inclined.
No apology needed bro, in a furball I expect them from everybody. I was a little bananaed that I was too slow to dodge yours! :D
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the points people make that this isnt aHO situation regarding me not having guns on are invalid
No it's not ... the term HO is so loosely used around here that its true meaning gets watered down and used inappropriately.
Your title says it all ... calling it an HO was a mistake ... it was not an HO ... it was poor and pointless gameplay, to which I agree 100%.
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I happened to be on when this occured and caught Bats comments on 200. I have not watched the clip prior to writing this. I think the real question here is mindset. Like Bat I'm always looking for the good fight....I'd rather lose a knck down drag out fight then land 5 "picks"...hell I'd rather win one then land 10.
As a counterpoint I posted a film in the training forum between me and a Ki-84. you will notice that we both flew a cold merge and ignored the possible HO. so the bottom line is sometimes you meet another "knight of the sky"....and sometimes you just get lanced:).....
when in doubt.....lite em up:aok
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Are you saying you would have taken that shot in that situation? LMAO! What kind of gratification on God's earth might you get from "winning" that way?? Or is it just a stat to you? Just asking!
did u watch the film rock? he did exactly what i thought he did which was pull too soon and ended up getting his tail shot off.. why wouldnt he take the shot? in the other players perspective he probably saw nothing but belly and arnold.. nothing close to a ho..
so he wants to merge? yet he breaks soon instead of actually merging trying to gain an advantage and he's mad he got shot for it.. im sorry but elfy didnt do anything wrong here..
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
i dunno that rudder kick at the last second and getting hits on target - sounds pretty pro to me...
kinda like a faking punt for a touchdown for the win if ya ask me....:rofl
LMAO! Lamer response that was expected from skilless pancake boi! I won! I won! I won! :rolleyes:
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ok i was, in a il2 im gonna take the face shot on the merge, sorry for the bs i was playing w/ ya, didnt
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Bottom line is expecting someone not to HO is not very realistic in the AH environment. It's still up to you whether you choose to however. Sometimes you get lucky and the guy also wants to fight.
I had a good brawl with Skyrock the other night, his F4U1A to my 38G. I knew when he didn't shoot HO at the merge that I was going to get a fight and was probably in trouble. There were 2-3 times at least where either of us could have HO'd but didn't looking for the angle shot.
I got lucky as he was going up and then stall turned it as I was reaching the stall as well. Even then I hesitated for a second cause it was going to be a front quarter shot. I took the snap shot as I was starting to fall as he passed me very close. I remember distinctly watching 4 flashes starting from right behind the engine cowling, then right in front of the cockpit, right on the rear of the cockpt and the top of the fuselage behind the cockpit.
I know it was an OK shot from my end, but I also knew that it might have looked different from his end.
He didn't complain so I felt a bit better about taking it. That being said, it's on me if I choose to take it or not and I can't expect the other guy not to just because I choose not to.
And as I said in my previous post. I do believe less people are taking the HO then before.
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chaingun it wasnt you sir!! that was a fair shot and a good one S! I must admit i had to laugh when i saw your IL2 at 13k, you have the patience of an artist :) nothing at all to do with our encounter earlier, and i know you can give a good fight.
slapshot, good point, you've got me thinking there.
TW9, if you view from his cockpit, all you see is my nose untill 50yrds.
in a merge, you do not have to fly through each other, i dont think i could have waited much longer to break. he was merging on the dive, and i had worked some vertical seperation by diving early. as i pull up i come to the point where i could pull my guns on target, but i assume (yes, stupidly) that he wants a good fight and deliberately keep my nose just off target.
look from his view, it isnt untill the very last second that he sees anything but my nose.
may i also stress that i didnt want this to become a personal matter with the pilot involved, i will hold no grudge against him.
i will, however, call that style of 'fighting' a lame waste of time untill the cows come home.
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Originally posted by TW9
did u watch the film rock? he did exactly what i thought he did which was pull too soon and ended up getting his tail shot off.. why wouldnt he take the shot? in the other players perspective he probably saw nothing but belly and arnold.. nothing close to a ho..
so he wants to merge? yet he breaks soon instead of actually merging trying to gain an advantage and he's mad he got shot for it.. im sorry but elfy didnt do anything wrong here..
I just did and I will have to say that knowing the players involved I think Elfy will alwyas take this shot! I think it is a lame way to play a game and people who like taking this shot when just two are around are usually caught up in the "name in lights syndrome". It is contagious gamestyle that I think is lame! So AKelfy is worried about his perk ride? I don't know, unless you dont have the confidence to totally pwn the guy without resorting to "High deflection" shots on the first merge! Simply put, if AKElfy misses that shot He runs to his CV ack and anyone that would dispute that hasn't flown enough around "certain" said vets in this game! He did not want to fight, he wanted to "get the kill". Maybe people are worried about their perk rides, maybe about their stats, reguardless of what the reason is, you'll play he11 getting them to fight if its co= merge on alt and E! If they can't get that cheapshot in they usually just run for ack/help! By the way, TW, your right about it not being what most people consider a HO, but I consider it a HO because it was a Head On merge! I get absolutely no enjoyment of shooting someone down in that situation! If anything I feel a little bush league for not fighting the guy! The way I look at it, a HO shot is not a fight, its a sucker punch that lands first! Is it battle? Yes. Is it fair? Many people would never start a fight with a sucker punch if the odds are even. So it basically boils down to "how" you want to fight, or "what" class of fighter in which one wished to be considered! I once found Lute floating around fighting in his nik. I asked him to meet me at certain alt, which he did. We danced in the vert a few rolls or so and he eventually got a solution on me. Afterwards he said, "I can't believe you didn't go for those HO shots! " I replied something to the extent of, "HO's do not determine the best fighter in the fight, it distinguishes the one who is losing!"
Mark
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One last comment. Both you guys were in 1Cs. Anytime i see a 4 cannon bird, I bet the house it's gonna be a HO as usually those guys are compensating for something with all those big guns :)
No point in going anywhere near a HO situation with a 4 cannon bird. I'd rather fly along like I don't see em and let em try for the first pass, break on em, reverse and game on.
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Geesh somebody slap me for typing all that! But you get the point! :D
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
" dont fly at me if you dont want to get ho'ed"
sounds like those vets were giving you good advice. If you give the other guy any type of shot opportunity it would be really stupid and n00blike for you not to expect them to take the shot.
Oh...and honor went out the window on that cold French autumn day when some guy decided to take a rifle up with him to shoot at the other guy.
ack-ack
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Waaahhhh I GOT HOED
wanna see the film? =)
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
sounds like those vets were giving you good advice. If you give the other guy any type of shot opportunity it would be really stupid and n00blike for you not to expect them to take the shot.
Oh...and honor went out the window on that cold French autumn day when some guy decided to take a rifle up with him to shoot at the other guy.
ack-ack
:rofl Again lamer response! Either you don't get it, or your trying to paint it into something it's not! At any rate, maybe not commenting at all is your best case! :aok
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this lamer has a new purpose in AH, to HO skyrock. I hope he is a bish or rook.
44MAG
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Originally posted by john9001
this lamer has a new purpose in AH, to HO skyrock. I hope he is a bish or rook.
44MAG
3 things you need to learn first:
1. I fly under the cpid CptDeath
2. I fly all countries and owe no allegiance to one
3. You might be able to HO me if I'm already fighting one or ten, if 1 vs 1, your dead meat if you try to HO me as I will own you to a point that you might give the game up in a shame ridden he11!:aok
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Originally posted by SkyRock
:rofl Again lamer response! Either you don't get it, or your trying to paint it into something it's not! At any rate, maybe not commenting at all is your best case! :aok
Ahhh...the typical response from your typical idiot. Can't you do any better other than calling someone a "lamer"? Sounds like you're trying to compensate for certain "short-comings".
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Sounds like you're trying to compensate for certain "short-comings".
ack-ack
Well that was a good shot in the dark there for you, too bad you were off by quite a bit! lol You gave a typical response of a lamer, so I appologize to you if you are not a lamer, you just fooled me with your words! Considering your style of play, you don't really have the "experience" in co-alt 1 vs 1 engagements to make a contribution to this thread! :aok
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Let me see if I got this....................
A guy kicks his rudder on the merge and shoots your tail off. Not hitting your engine or getting a PW, but knocking your tail off. That's lame?
You get an 800 yard uber cannon kill on the Dora. That's not lame?
:huh
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Nope ... don't consider it an HO ... only cause you didn't have a guns solution and without that ... it's simply a high angle deflection shot.
Now ... from what I can see you assumed, and for the life of me I can't understand it, that both of you were going to do a DA cold merge.
Also, you merged way too close setting yourself up for such a move, especially in the MA. In the MA, I give myself plenty of separation which does not allow someone to pull that move.
I hate to say it Bat but you set yourself up for it ... especially due to the fact that you had no clue as to who was in the other plane. Had you 2 talked over 200 prior to the fight, then I could see the anger ... but not under these circumstances.
Yeah I am with Slappy on this one. Pretty much word for word agree.
Dave
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
" dont fly at me if you dont want to get ho'ed"
Ive said that myself on occasion.
I dont fly into initial merges with intentions of HOing, but ya gotta keep people honest too. If their no HO merge leaves a snapshot, Ill take it.
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in the film, it looks if neither of them broke and stayed on course...they wouldve collided...so, it ends up being a game of chicken? who breaks to avoid collision first gets shot thinking it a cold gun merge..but really it was "ill collide with you if you dont break and give me a shot" ?
may be wrong. wouldnt be the first time. wouldve loved to see the whines if they collided tho.
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Bat....totally agree with ya on this one bro. Its rare to get a good 1v1 anymore in this game and when you do it almost always ends up the way yours did in the film. I was surprised when i saw who it was.
All the waterheads that are posting waaaaaaaaa post's are the ones that do the HOing so don't take much stock in it.
I have the most fun in this game when i'm fightin you and your buds. (even though i'm on the loosing end most of the time):lol
:D
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Bat....totally agree with ya on this one bro. Its rare to get a good 1v1 anymore in this game and when you do it almost always ends up the way yours did in the film. I was surprised when i saw who it was.
You weren't the only one shocked either.
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I just want to go on record here that I WILL[/b] HO you if I get a shot and not even think twice about it.
There is nothing funnier than leveling off and blowing a guy up when he's still 800 out. :)
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Originally posted by Grits
There is nothing funnier than leveling off and blowing a guy up when he's still 800 out. :)
You are a lamer weiner, and probably fly Fw190A8s.
- oldman (just a guess) (and I've never seen you take a HO shot no matter what the range) (so stop taunting these people)
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
chaingun it wasnt you sir!! that was a fair shot and a good one S! I must admit i had to laugh when i saw your IL2 at 13k, you have the patience of an artist :) nothing at all to do with our encounter earlier, and i know you can give a good fight.
slapshot, good point, you've got me thinking there.
TW9, if you view from his cockpit, all you see is my nose untill 50yrds.
in a merge, you do not have to fly through each other, i dont think i could have waited much longer to break. he was merging on the dive, and i had worked some vertical seperation by diving early. as i pull up i come to the point where i could pull my guns on target, but i assume (yes, stupidly) that he wants a good fight and deliberately keep my nose just off target.
look from his view, it isnt untill the very last second that he sees anything but my nose.
may i also stress that i didnt want this to become a personal matter with the pilot involved, i will hold no grudge against him.
i will, however, call that style of 'fighting' a lame waste of time untill the cows come home.
yes u dont have to fly through but atleast have to pass.. u broke too soon and he made u pay for it.. thats all im saying.. and the fact that it was ur tail that got shot off and not ur canopy says that he saw something a lil different than what is shown on your film which is possible due to lag.. he saw ur tail and under belly pull up infront of his guns and pulled the trigger..
it looked to me as though he wanted to merge just like u thought but when u broke too soon he caught ya which is what most would have done or regretted not doing if they didnt..
u screwed up and trying to make the guy look bad but the film really isnt showing a ho to me at all. just a mistake on your part thats all i see.. no offense.. i know ur a good stick.. but im not just gonna watch the film and agree with u just because of that... im goign to tell u how i see it otherwise whats the point in posting the film?
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
as we close, 6k, 5k, 4k, 3k, im thinking 'who is it?' 'do i go short or long, do i have the E to rope him or do etc.....[snip]
Lotsa thinking... but no thinking about what to do if he jacks you at the end.
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
the enemy digs his rudder as hard as he can and shoots me right in the face, tearing me to shreds......
now this wasnt a newb who didnt know better, this was someone who has been playing longer than me by a few years.
he KNEW i was avoiding that HO shot,
yep - you are right on both counts. And he bagged you.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
You are a lamer weiner, and probably fly Fw190A8s.
- oldman (just a guess) (and I've never seen you take a HO shot no matter what the range) (so stop taunting these people)
OK, OK you got me I am stirring the pot. But I do take HO shots, and I dont feel bad when I do. Most of the time I take HO shots is when there is nothing left in the hangar but an IL-2 and there is a swarm of vulchers orbiting the base. In that case I do shoot over 800 out and giggle like a schoolgirl (or like slash) when they blow up and I dont.
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Yes, i'm a noob, BUT i think that hoing is crap. Sure it's a bit of a whine, but in my limited experience these HO dinks will either blow you away or ram you. Cant count the number of times that i have gone on for a merge and seen the guns blazing. If they shoot i'll take a shot if i have one if thats their game, more often then not i'll try to dive out of their sights only to have them whack into me trying to get off a snap shot.
In one night i got rammed by the same guy 3 times as he tried to dive in on my 6. Sure, if i was better he never would have gotten there, but some of these guys just dont get it. Why bother to get good when you can powerup and grab a new plane. It's not really a whine as much as a criticism of a mentality that seems to be emerging; "If it isnt easy then forget it."
A kill is a kill right? I dont think so, even in WWII there was a certain code. Pilots from both sides would respect a good fight, there was even a documented situation where a german pilot beat a brit fair and square, then escorted him back to his base to keep other German pilots from vulching the wounded plane. I dont expect anything near that, but it does bother me. In fact i would say that the main reason that i strive to get better is to teach these kind of hacks a lesson.
Anyway, from the short time that i've been playing it has been 99% positive and the best defense against these yahoos is to blacklist them. The people that i fly with are good about calling them out so the rest of us can kick their butt every time we see them! :)
Enough of that. How about that local sports team and/or weather?
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I GOT A GUN POINTED AT YOUR HEAD, but I'm not going to shoot cause I'm a virtual stud. Bull I'm killin your dumb-oscar. Oh did I forget to mention I'm even more a virtual stud cause I knew you had guns pointed at me and still didnt shoot ?
Think what you will provide me a sight picture I WILL SHOOT. Been okie doked one to many times.
Oh another thing, if you gain advantage I'm out.
READ BELOW
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I went back and watched the film again just to confirm my first impression. Yes it sucks that when you do find a 1v1 off in a quiet corner, you have to assume the other guy will try to HO the initial merge.
Bat, you did leave the opening. Your turn started 1100 yards away from the merge point with a soft stedy RoT. You were under the merge and rising, but you did not have directly opposing vectors. (which means the other guy has to neg G, or invert for guns). Instead you had offset opposing vectors which allow for the 'bank and turn' that happened. That is a good position for an opening chandell...which by the way would have closed the angles to help achieve being inside a merge shot, but not good for an early immelman.
Your compass headings at the time of the shot are a good 20 degrees different. (I am looking at the merge from directly over head with trails on). In other words it is very much off angle for a true HO.
(http://479th.jasminemarie.com/images/batelf1.jpg)
(http://479th.jasminemarie.com/images/batelf2.jpg)
I really try to stress in training the balancing act that is the merge. I will take someone who is relatively new at sim combat flying, and let them lose badly a few times trying to go for the HO. Then I will explain the disadvantages of the HO shot, and why I am behind them so quickly. After some further instruction, we usually end up with me trying to correct them on their late initial turn. That typically leads to them making the initial turn too early.....guess what? Negative reinforcement, I will ping them for doing that. The idea is to clearly define the 'window' they have to work with during the merge to both protect themselves from a merge shot, and attempt to gain an early angles advantage. Im only saying all this to elaborate on my attitude... you were outside the window that time.
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so basicaly what your saying murdr, is that you teach the new guys to HO if the enemy gives you the chance? good one. i dont give a tuppeny toss if the angle wasnt directly facing each other. Any 'merge' where you fly at each other from 6k and go guns blazing in the last 1000 yrds is in my mind an easy way out of having a real fight. any 'merge' that starts from 6k where you dont fire untill the last half second is even more of a cheap tactic. its like saying ' i know you are gunna cold merge with me, so i will wait untill you have no chance to avoid or shoot back, then take my shot.'
Zazen said it very well, and many others here said it good too.
its just how some of us play the game that some of you will never understand.
Originally posted by TW9
im goign to tell u how i see it otherwise whats the point in posting the film?
very true and i respect your opinion even if i dont agree with you.
Originally posted by Shifty
Let me see if I got this....................
A guy kicks his rudder on the merge and shoots your tail off. Not hitting your engine or getting a PW, but knocking your tail off. That's lame?
You get an 800 yard uber cannon kill on the Dora. That's not lame?
:huh
rubbish. notice in the text buffer after the dora 'fluke shot' i type on ch200 'woah!' as if to say 'wtf, that was pure luck'
and even at 800 yrds, a 20mm round to the head will kill you. its either very good shooting (if i had hit it first time) or just plain luck (as in this case). Had the 190 pilot complained to me on 200 i woulda agreed with him and said 'yup, thats kinda unlikely and gamey, but hell, it don't happen that often and next time i wont be so lucky, good flying sir'
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if the supposed HO shot i am talking about had been at a time when i most definitely could not get guns on, then i would be just in whine mode about dying. but thats not the case, both of us had 6000 yrds to line up for that shot. one decides not to in the hope of winning or losing a good fight, the other the opposite in the desperate hope of getting a 'kill' recorded.
I respect the opinion of everyone who has taken the topic seriously, no matter if you agree or disagree with my thoughts.
those of you that seriously believe i care about 'being killed' (virtualy) are plain wrong. I die alot and generaly think nothing of it.
S! to those of you that 'get it'.
S! to those of you that 'get it' but still disagree with me in this instance.
to sum up my feelings, yet again, the title is what matters to me 'pointless gameplay'.
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S!
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
so basicaly what your saying murdr, is that you teach the new guys to HO if the enemy gives you the chance? good one. i dont give a tuppeny toss if the angle wasnt directly facing each other. Any 'merge' where you fly at each other from 6k and go guns blazing in the last 1000 yrds is in my mind an easy way out of having a real fight. any 'merge' that starts from 6k where you dont fire untill the last half second is even more of a cheap tactic. its like saying ' i know you are gunna cold merge with me, so i will wait untill you have no chance to avoid or shoot back, then take my shot.'
Ok, here it is in nice bold red letters so it is easy to understand. I said I basically slap new guys on the wrist for going at the HO, then teach them what they need to do to defend from others HOing. Knowing what not to do to leave yourself open to them is an important skill to have. See Head Ons are part of the game no matter what the bbs community thinks of them.
It is an unpopular tactic, and you come here posting what would naturally be a popular position (come join my band wagon). Be that as it may a few of us realists have pointed out (paraphrasing)"you should have expected it", "you set yourself up for it". Sorry if that is so offensive that you feel the need to twist my words into something I clearly did not say. That kind of response is exactly why these thread end up locked.[/size]
[/COLOR]
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you havnt offended me murdr, and i hope i havnt offended you.
i didnt intend to twit your words, i merely misunderstood your words.
you could have corrected me without the patronising red wall i see there.
S! your opinion counts just the same as anyones, doesnt mean i have to bow down and change everything i think about the game.
it just seems to me that you not only equip new players with anti-HO tactics, but you also let them see clearly that if thier opponent doesnt point guns right at you untill you have crossed paths, its more than ok to shoot them.
if i misunderstood then its my failing not yours, and jumping on your high horse and treating me like an idiot only pushes me further away from agreeing with you.
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Fair enough.
As far as tall equines, prostrating ones self, and such... Keep in mind I was correcting an impression that does not accurately reflect on the AHTC. Nothing personal.
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duely noted, nothing on these boards should be taken personaly despite how difficult that may be at times.
appologies for my poor comprehension of your words.
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I think many are missing the point! Its not that I agree with Bat, I actually stated earlier that I don't think that many vets would call this a HO, they would call it a high deflection. But nonetheless, it is a cheap way to fight in a 1 vs 1 with noone else around, "if" you value the fight and not the kill! A kill without the fight is just plain boring! How many times do you think a guy will hit that shot and still get gratification out of it? Apparently, many never lose their affection with these types of "wins". For me, I lost the enjoyment of a kill like that about 1 1/2 years into the game. I still find it hard to believe that stiks of the caliber that are posting here state that they would take that shot giving that they are the only ones around and its a 1 vs 1. The way I saw the film, and putting myself in AKelfy's position, that would have been the last shot I would have went for. If he misses that shot, because he nosed down and was gaining speed, he would have left himself vulnerable to a kill shot on next merge, or been forced to egress out of the fight to start over again. Which is why I stated that elfy would have been running to the cv ack if he'd had missed. But to get back to the point of the thread, there was no "fight" there and therefore the sortie ended boring, plain, predictable, and "pointless!"
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lol skyrock it wasnt cheap at all.. go watch the film again.. bat broke too soon, never truelly merged with him and got shot up.. maybe things would have been more of a duel if they actually merged.. instead bat tried to bait him and ended up being the fish wiggling at the end of the line..
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i strongly, respectfully, disagree with the line 'bat tried to bait him' TW.
i also think i have a right to disagree because you are telling me what i did, which is infact false and only i can 'know' what i did.
if i wanted to bait him, i would have offered my tail, dived away to equalise E states, then attempted a high speed rolling reversal.
my only attempt at anything was to start the fight head to head in the hopes that my enemy would A) not HO or B) miss the ho and lose angles, whith a far greater thought that option A) would be the case.
i never will try to deny that i let myself get shot up, and i never will try to claim that i, or anyone, deserves the right of a cold merge. what i will claim is that in the spirit of fair play i tried to merge cold and head on, and got sucker punched with a cheap shot.
only I, thinking what i thunk as we approached, can believe this, but i swear it to you that i was not in anyway trying to 'bait' or 'trick' the enemy into being killed easily.
what infact appears to be the case from my perspective is the complete opposite. the enemy lulled me into a flase sense of fairplay and a cold merge DA fight that many people will gladly offer in return, and then pulled into me at the last possible second and got a good hit on me.
fair enough, i lost, he won, im the fool.
doesnt mean i don't think it was cheap and representative of the major downfall in MA style gameplay, and very much what i consider a head on merge shot.
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Any dogfight where you get shot up, crash and can walk away from...is a good one. :)
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Originally posted by TW9
lol skyrock it wasnt cheap at all.. go watch the film again.. bat broke too soon, never truelly merged with him and got shot up.. maybe things would have been more of a duel if they actually merged.. instead bat tried to bait him and ended up being the fish wiggling at the end of the line..
Like I said TW, Most vets will agree that it was a high deflection shot that many of them would have taken. Then what would you do? Fly around looking for what? Maybe another encounter that ends in a high deflection/no fight Head-on kill! It is purely my opinion that shots like these are cheap and worthless to the fun of the "fight! I watched the film and AKelfy in his usual style, when he's in a CHOG, is coming straight at the guy looking for that Head on shot, where as myself and others like me are anticipating the fun of an angular, E- draining brawl! Many of you must not fly around elfy that much, he's a good fella, but a cheap running woos as an enemy! He will go for that Head-on everytime reguardless if Bat gave it to him this time or not! Now, I am sorry that my opinion of these types of shots turned into my opinion of the player who took this one, but he's shot at me trying to HO me countless times, unfortunately for him, I don't give him the shot unless barely off the ground taking off, which also happens very often! Usually after he misses its off to the races, that is unless he has squaddies around, then bring on the gang bang! I know the AK's are good people and several in the squad are exceptionally fun dogfighters..............but not all of them!:aok Oh, and by the way, consider that we know Bat will want to fight and was setting up the angles a little to soon and got caught, AK was setting nothing up but the Head-on via a game of chicken! I can just here it now, if Bat doesnt turn and give him the high deflect, he still HO's and says, "Don't fly straight at me!" LMAO! I found it's much easier to kill HO dweeebs like elfy if you just give them your 6 and reverse them into He11! :t
PS. Don't take these posts too seriously as this is just a BBS for a GAME!:aok
PS. #2 These shots given the fact that only two guys were around, was exactly as bat said, "Pointless gameplay"
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I dont mind the HO shots, its the ramming that follows that really cheapens the game for me. Some guys wont even fire they just try to ram at the merge. the ram tactic is just like throwing dice. For the guy who is pure gamer and sucks, the ram is the best option. HT needs to rethink how he has the collision model designed.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
my point is this game has gone from "Fighting" to "Playstation Mentality"
That sums up the opinion of many vets in a nutshell.
I for one always expect the HO, even when it looks cold.
...and you are far from "average" skillwise bat!
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Snick........................ ............................. ..................er!
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
...snip...
its just how some of us play the game that some of you will never understand.
...snip...
Bat, your a good pilot and can routinely whip my butt when we fight. But I really don't understand your position here.
"The game that we play" is simulated air combat. The formal duel or the freeform dogfight, whatever format we're in, it boils down to pretending we fly fighters as if we were facing an enemy -- with all the skilled flight control and tactical intelligence we can muster.
So can you even imagine a situation when a combat pilot would either deliberately allow an opponent a kill opportunity, or would pass up a kill opportunity himself?
Part of the simulation/immersion is to NOT allow oponents those opportunities. You cant claim to have good air COMBAT maneuvering if you allow your enemy the chance to kill you...If you don't prevent that, then you have a hole in your armor, or rust on your rifle. You're just not doing your job -- especially when a good merge alone should win the fight against someone who immediately gives up angles for the HO shot.
So in this circumstance, if he had the shot on you, you had a bad merge -- you messed up. You used ACM tactics that do NOT simulate air combat.
So why blame him?
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
if i wanted to bait him, i would have offered my tail, dived away to equalise E states, then attempted a high speed rolling reversal.
u did show him ur tail. the whole right quarter of it..
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I watched the film from both perspectives....and I saw AKelfy do nothing that any good Corsair pilot wouldn't have done....he rolled into you....and shot your tail off. Good deflection shooting on his part.
How can one shoot off your tail in an HO?
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You boys keep propping up the HO dweebs like elfy, I'm sure he's reading this thinking to himself......see everybody HO's like I do!:rolleyes:
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SkyRock...your posts indicate that you have a personal agenda...
The film shows otherwise.
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Originally posted by Patches1
....and I saw AKelfy do nothing that any good Corsair pilot wouldn't have done....he rolled into you..
Your image of a good corsair pilot is disrespectful to those who actually know how to fly the plane! In game of course! Also you miss the point of the thread, it's about two pilots meeting up in a desolate part of the map. same plane, relatively same alt and speed, and a merge. Shooting on the merge in this sitiuation tells me someone "doesn't" have the confidence in piloting the corsair! Like I said before, if you know elfy, if he misses that shot he runs to ack! Please refrain from calling those tactics good Hog piloting! Cheap, pointless, gameplaying!
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Originally posted by Patches1
SkyRock...your posts indicate that you have a personal agenda...
The film shows otherwise.
I call a spade a spade. The film showed me that Elfy would fly straight at the guy and take the Head on shot, i.e the HO! If you see anything else in that film you are taking it out of context. It was an isolated part of the map only two planes and elfy took the frontal/HO on first pass! CHeap shot imho! But then again, running into elfy in his CHOG many times before I personnaly know this is his MO! So where you are looking at degrees of deflection, I am seeing the big picture of cheap tactics! :aok
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you guys do know your not really flying airplanes, right?
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Originally posted by killnu
in the film, it looks if neither of them broke and stayed on course...they wouldve collided...so, it ends up being a game of chicken? who breaks to avoid collision first gets shot thinking it a cold gun merge..but really it was "ill collide with you if you dont break and give me a shot" ?
may be wrong. wouldnt be the first time. wouldve loved to see the whines if they collided tho.
Bingo. You see this in the DA too where after a couple of passes the guy comming from above has the E to break and avoid the colision. As soon as he does, he gets unloaded on by the other guy.
People will use every excuse and every advantage to win. In real life and in virtual life such as this. This even more so since no one knows who they are and they will never have to answer to anyone.
Just expect it. Bat, you were trying to gain an avantage over him by pulling up early. A very valid and sportsman like move, but if he was smart enough to realize what you were doing, he knew he had lost the fight at that point so he took the shot. All I am saying is learn to expect the worst from people and you will never be desaponted :O
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Review your posts....
Review the film....
Then attack what I saw on the film.
If you wish to attack me, personally....
Grab your socks!
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Some people's notion of "fight honor" is naive at best. What is wrong with taking a shot on the merge if the opportunity presents itself? I can tell you right now that when I merge in the MA, the notion of a "cold merge" is not even being contemplated by me. I'm going to pull into a lead turn on the merge and take the shot if I get a good angle. There is nothing wrong with that nor does it indicate any "lack of skill" as some try to claim it is.
The days of tipping your helmet at your enemy before charging with your lance down went away a long time ago.
ack-ack
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i think youre wrong ack-ack, but that doesnt mean you are in anyone's world but mine.
good post bugs, and youre correct that its my fault, as alot of others have said.
everyone has different opinions, and that is the spice of life.
some have given opinions that i whole heartedly agree with, others are of the opinion that i find it impossible to agree with.
thats just life, and i woulndt want it any other way.
Elfy, if you reading this then feel free to chip in with your opinion, you wont be 'wrong' whatever you say because it only a game. I hold you no ill feeling and i certainly care very little about being shot down. just hope one day you try to better your virtual 'skillz' in the hopes that we could have a 'good fight'.
I do truly appreciate everyone who has given thier 2cents on the matter aside from 'waaaaaa i got hoed whine'.
i think I can safely say that this situation wont make any of us lose any sleep. ;)
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Ack-Ack Is right.
I will avoid the head on. But if you present a target for a angle shot your going to get it. The head ons in the Ma are pretty consistent. I expect and react accordingly. I will angle and pass if you give me the oppertunity. But if I see your nose angling towards me in a head on, the gloves are off my friend.:t
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Originally posted by uberhun
... But if I see your nose angling towards me in a head on, the gloves are off my friend.:t
Yep...when I see the other guy maneuvering for the head on for his merge pass, I just add a little side slip and create some seperation and when we get within range, I'll either pull hard into him with a lead turn for a front quarter shot angle (or if coming from below a nice belly shot) or even a lag turn so I end up on his 6 right after we merge and the kill. But I guess to a select "super uber duper Aces" this is a "lamer" tactic since I never gave the other guy a chance to fight. But I hate to tell those "super uber duper Aces" that the whole concept of aerial combat is to kill the other guy before he kills you and the best way to do it is not give him a chance to kill you before you kill him.
ack-ack
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One thing that irks me more than HOing all the time, is the type of pilot that always picks. Ya when Im in certain planes, few really, as I almost always try and turn fight no matter what Im in, I will fly picking at stuff.
But some folks, thats all they do. I can't understand how fun it is for them to fly towards somebody's 6, and when they miss, they fly on, just out of icon range, waiting for that guy he missed to get engaged in another fight. Then he comes back and tries to pick the guy. When the guy survives his fight, and kills the enemy he had, the picker runs again.
I just can't see how playing like that could be fun. The other day I had one of these guys...finally someone shot him down, he bailed out. I couldnt resist popping his chute. Shallow? yes. Felt good? Yes.
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Originally posted by uberhun
Ack-Ack Is right.
I will avoid the head on. But if you present a target for a angle shot your going to get it. The head ons in the Ma are pretty consistent. I expect and react accordingly. I will angle and pass if you give me the oppertunity. But if I see your nose angling towards me in a head on, the gloves are off my friend.:t
clearly the response of someone who firstly didnt watch the film in question, and secondly has no concept of what the thread is about.
i call this filmed fight a HO shot, but thats always been up for dispute.
the solid fact that i will never change my mind on is that in this film the style of gameplay was lame.
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see u keep calling elfy lame but personally i think its more lame that uve been calling it a ho when the film clearly shows it as not.. and if u could see it from his FE it would show even more that it wasnt..
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
what infact appears to be the case from my perspective is the complete opposite. the enemy lulled me into a flase sense of fairplay and a cold merge DA fight that many people will gladly offer in return, and then pulled into me at the last possible second and got a good hit on me.
fair enough, i lost, he won, im the fool.
doesnt mean i don't think it was cheap and representative of the major downfall in MA style gameplay, and very much what i consider a head on merge shot.
A fair play/cold DA merge is when two combatants are co-E and co-altitude and do not perform any aggresive moves until each passes the others 3-9 line.
As the film shows this was not the case for either participant. Bat dived for speed and then turned up and in before the merge hoping for a quick reversal. Elfy countered by rolling inverted and pulling into Bat just after Bat started his turn and Elfy took a quick snapshot, both were agressive moves. Mudr and TW9 are right that there was an angle of deflection and this was not a HO.
Had Bat delayed his turn for just a second, odds are that he would of had his reversal. It was just a matter of timing. However calling Elfy's move cheap goes beyond credibilty.
Next time you want a fair play/DA merge Bat, try for horizontal rather than vertical seperation with no break turn before the merge and if somebody hits you from the front quarter, you may have a better case.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
clearly the response of someone who firstly didnt watch the film in question, and secondly has no concept of what the thread is about.
i call this filmed fight a HO shot, but thats always been up for dispute.
the solid fact that i will never change my mind on is that in this film the style of gameplay was lame.
Ahhh no
Bat you even stated it yourself in an earlier thread. I fully understand your point here. I just don't agree with it. MA ettiquet is non existent. It's about Situational awareness and apparently you were lulled into a sense of non existent security. Then boom he pulls a rudder slip move and bang your dead.
:furious
Let it go I hear you can up as many cartoon planes you want here:rolleyes: And if your still confused just read my sig. You will get the idea.:huh
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LIke I said, In My Opinion it is a head on shot! It is a high deflection head on shot and one that I personally wouldn't have taken because I actually like to fight! Taking that shot In My Opinion is not wanting a fight, its wanting a kill! Now to make my point, why would you want a quick kill when after that, there is nothing to do but fly around for 15 minutes waiting for the guy to re-up so you can take the HO/high deflection first merge shot again anyway! Lame I tell you! By someone's opinion it was an aggressive move, LMAO all HO shots are aggressive it doesn't make them any less lame in a game where lives arent lost and planes cost little or nothing! I made the same shot on Levi back when I was a 1 yr newb, at first after I read it was Leviathn, I was excited about killing him( at that time he was king) and telling my squaddies about me getting him, but the excitement quickly faded into disdain for the cheapshot I had just giving him. I hadn't beaten him at all, just sucker punched him first! These posts are my opinion about that type of shot and with no "real life" disrespect to the fellow that is AKelfy. I have taken too many HO shots from Elfy ingame to have any respect about his tactics! Now if elfy would like some traing in the CHog I will be more than willing to help him break his crutch to HO! :aok
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You know what I think? I think some of you guys have waaay too much time on your hands to spend 3 pages dissecting a single encounter among the hundreds of thousands that occur in the virtual world of Aces High. :rolleyes:
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lol rock the mroe i read ur posts the more i think u just dont like elfy and regardless of the PROOF thats been available u'll only see it your way..
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
not even preaching, i dont expect anyone to change, and i DO expect to be flamed.
surfice to say ive lost any virtual respect i had for about 4 or 5 long term players, today.
Not from me you wont.
the only time I HO is in retaliation for being HO'ed
More often then not I wont even HO in a 2,3 or 4 V 1
Seems to run hot & cold witht he HO'ers though. I always see em every night here and there.
But some nights it seems as if thats all anyone is doing
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Originally posted by SkyRock
I made the same shot on Levi back when I was a 1 yr newb, at first after I read it was Leviathn, I was excited about killing him( at that time he was king)
Actually Leviathn is the best there is at deflection merge shots. The last time he was flying frequently, I could identify him immediately by his ability to milk a merge ping out of positions that virtually no one else could make.
( at that time he was king)
I wonder if Todd is aware he has been deposed? lol.
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Originally posted by TW9
lol rock the mroe i read ur posts the more i think u just dont like elfy and regardless of the PROOF thats been available u'll only see it your way..
That's basically how it is. If you don't fly his way or by his "sense of honor" then you're a lamer.
ack-ack
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guys, guys, chilll out here please.
ACK ACK - it isnt about virtual 'honour', its about making a fight out of something that isnt a fight. taking that shot, isnt fighting, its just killing. If killing is your game then fairplay. if fighting is your game then you might agree with me more. we all know that you dont go for a fair fight, you like to 'kill'. thats your choice and no one can tell you its wrong.
skyrock thinks along the same lines as me, and i know he is a very 'skilled' player of this game.
please chaps, keep this civil.
I would once again like to state: I have no ill feeling towards elfy, i think he is a nice guy and i have had fun with him in the past.
lets try our very best to keep this on topic, and not turn it into a personal slaggin match.
Everyone will have a different opinion, and i must say WELL DONE to those who have given thier opinion to further the discusion.
I still stand by my original thoughts, and many of you have given very good evidence to suggest that my original thoughts are bullchit.
of all the points brought up, slapshot has got me thinking the most, and i might have to admit, OK, this wasnt a HO shot. I still maintain that it is a weak form of gameplay and this is where skyrock and I are exactly the same.
many of you disagree, aznd i thank you for your input. without opposing viewpoints, this would just be a waste of time.
keep the discusion going gents, but please keep it on topic and civil with no personal agendas.
thanks.
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I wonder if Todd is aware he has been deposed? lol
I was wondering the same thing ... and by whom ?
I have fought them all ... some get close, but in the end ... no cigar.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
I wonder if Todd is aware he has been deposed? lol
I was wondering the same thing ... and by whom ?
I have fought them all ... some get close, but in the end ... no cigar.
Nah, Levi sucks :D.
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i also totally agree with you bat
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Hey, I'm the one that gave him "King" status in my post!(Lev that is) I believe at that time noone(who was still flying) could beat him especially in a spit which was all he was flying other than an occasional Temp sortie, but then again I din't know him well then and can only comment on how me and my former squad was awed by his flying! I only know Todd as an occasional acquaintance now! As a matter of fact the last time I saw Lev on he was winging with Stang in Temps and Stang HO'd the watermelon out of me! lol I get HO'd constantly be some of the best in the game, but only occasionally. If you meet AKelfy in a chog and you are in front of him merging he will shoot! Its his style!~ It's not my style and I have the right to call someone lame that plays that way because its what I believe! :aok TW9 I might add that I agree with your assessment of the merge in question, I have stated several times that many would not call it a true HO, I on the other hand have been in Bats shoes against the guy too many times to give him the credit you guys are giving him. He will HO you everytime when he flies a CHOG! Just because in Bat's deal it was a "High deflection" doesn't mean he planned it that way, if Bat would have gone up nose to nose with him he would have still shot, and if he missed he would have run to his CV ack! That's lame! I guess I'm done here! :D
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Originally posted by Oldman731
You are a lamer weiner, and probably fly Fw190A8s.
- oldman (just a guess) (and I've never seen you take a HO shot no matter what the range) (so stop taunting these people)
One of the joys of the A8 is baiting some poor sucker into a HO in a LaLa. I use the A8 for buff hunting, will not initiate a HO but if someone "shows a HO" I'll oblige in a cannon ride, but usually dive & run like the weenie I am when someone tries a HO.
-MI-
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My thoughts on this subject (HO's in general).
My definition of a lame HO.
--Shooting on the first merge, when there are NO other planes in the area to worry about.--
That said, HO's were a fairly common occurrence in WWII (even "lame" ones)
And it is an accepted air combat tactic in real life, so how hard can you be on a guy who chooses to use it in AH?
Bat, If I had been elfy in that situation, I would like to think I would NOT have pulled the trigger. However, that was a really nice shot opportunity, and I can see where it would be hard not to scratch that itch on your trigger finger by rubbing it on the trigger. ;)
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I like being lame and HOing other planes because I laugh when they cry.
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yup sled, more i think about it the more i feel stupid for caring :)
i stand by what ive said, but i think alot of you have given me good reason to re-think that situation in future.
i still know that alot of other guys here woulda held fire and beaten me after the merge.
win some, lose some. learn from all
S!
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Whatever happened to saluting a good fight, and holding your tounge after a bad one?
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calling out one instance out of thousands and now ive failed, eh filth?
come off it.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
LIke I said, In My Opinion it is a head on shot! It is a high deflection head on shot and one that I personally wouldn't have taken because I actually like to fight! Taking that shot In My Opinion is not wanting a fight, its wanting a kill! Now to make my point, why would you want a quick kill when after that, there is nothing to do but fly around for 15 minutes waiting for the guy to re-up so you can take the HO/high deflection first merge shot again anyway! Lame I tell you! By someone's opinion it was an aggressive move, LMAO all HO shots are aggressive it doesn't make them any less lame in a game where lives arent lost and planes cost little or nothing! I made the same shot on Levi back when I was a 1 yr newb, at first after I read it was Leviathn, I was excited about killing him( at that time he was king) and telling my squaddies about me getting him, but the excitement quickly faded into disdain for the cheapshot I had just giving him. I hadn't beaten him at all, just sucker punched him first! These posts are my opinion about that type of shot and with no "real life" disrespect to the fellow that is AKelfy. I have taken too many HO shots from Elfy ingame to have any respect about his tactics! Now if elfy would like some traing in the CHog I will be more than willing to help him break his crutch to HO! :aok
:aok
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<:furious > @ the Discovery channel.
It used to be that seeing a P40 meant a fight. Last night, I had two trying to HO my Ki84 :rofl
Those were not cannon birds on the TV you :rolleyes: , lol
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Well I have to say I tend to side with the guys in this thread that want to have a decent fight.
Most times I will pass on the merge shot because I am looking for the fight and especially in this situation where there are only two planes around for miles.
Why end the fight on a lame merge shot when you could have had some fun? It makes me laugh that this is lost on some vets. It's not like your girl friend is going to think your any less of a dweeb cause you took the shot LOLAY.
I can also see what most of you "just play for the kill shot" guys are saying, blah blah blah no fight honor. But you reach a point in your skill level that allows you to move on past the need to take the easy shot and rather push for a decent fun fight.
Hell, in this situation only 1v1 for miles, I have broke from a guys six after pasting him with 303s, just so we could remerge and try it again, for the FUN. But then I guess you have to be confident in your abilities to begin with, to move past the, "I have to take the easy kill shot" mentality.
Granted in a furball or single plane Vs 4 anything goes.
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well said and thats exactly my, and other's, point quah!
had this of happened in a big ole furball, i wouldnt have even looked at the name of who shot me down before i was already in my next plane.
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Originally posted by Quah!
Well I have to say I tend to side with the guys in this thread that want to have a decent fight.
Most times I will pass on the merge shot because I am looking for the fight and especially in this situation where there are only two planes around for miles.
Why end the fight on a lame merge shot when you could have had some fun? It makes me laugh that this is lost on some vets. It's not like your girl friend is going to think your any less of a dweeb cause you took the shot LOLAY.
I can also see what most of you "just play for the kill shot" guys are saying, blah blah blah no fight honor. But you reach a point in your skill level that allows you to move on past the need to take the easy shot and rather push for a decent fun fight.
Hell, in this situation only 1v1 for miles, I have broke from a guys six after pasting him with 303s, just so we could remerge and try it again, for the FUN. But then I guess you have to be confident in your abilities to begin with, to move past the, "I have to take the easy kill shot" mentality.
Granted in a furball or single plane Vs 4 anything goes.
I agree with exactly what you said and wish I could have stated this more clearly in my posts. After taking that shot a thousand times after the first 1 1/2 to 2 years of playing, it just isn't fun or enjoying much less does it give me any sense of accomplishment or feeling of victory! Well said, sir.
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Originally posted by Murdr
I wonder if Todd is aware he has been deposed? lol.
He's still king. King of the elves in RPG land!
:rofl
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Just a quick lil story about a fight or two. I had met this hog-1A and me lower and in a Chog and was trying to bait him down and get him to fight! He wouldn't do it. Every time I would give him my 6 and let him get to within 600 yrds I would rudder and roll out and he would go zooming back up before i could get guns on him. If I followed towards himhe would fly off until out of icon range. Suddenly I see a dora hanging around and notice he is wanting a little. He was boomiong in and I side stepped him and he went straight vert and this happened a few times when I noticed the old 1A had come back looking for an easy gangbang. He immediately got real aggressive as did the dora I guess becuase there were two now, but in their haste they weren't noticing that I wasn't losing my E when they passed. I hhad decided to get the dora first but that meant hanging myself up there for the 1A. I tried following him up once Ithought I could get a shot and sure enuff her comes 1A boooming by so I ruddered really hard went invert nose down cut throttle rolled back over pulled hard on stik to bring nose up and then dodged the dora on his way down. suddenly, and I don't think they both knew it, but i was "behind" them in the cycle of angles we were playing. So this time when dora went for shot and I dodged him, I had enough E to follow him up and get him right at the top of his hammer. I quickly nosed over and picked up some speed aas 1A was coming in dodged him and rolled on his 6 and splashed him.
The next sortie I was trying to climb out and was jumped by dora again this time he had a buckload of E and I drained as much as I could before I tried to go up with him but I was in a 1-hog and cannonless. So he bnz'd me about 5 min maybe until finally in a vert passing he took a frontal shot and killed eng. He had gambled on the shot and was actually running for the deck when he noticed I was without power. I got to the water and set her down and came to a stop and was going to the guy when..Bam! towered! I made comment on 200 that I don't shoot planes in water affter a good fight andhis reply was, "A kill is a kill!" I don';t say that out of some honor for the guy on the water or some "honor" of the fight, more that I get absolutely no satisfaction from the kill by shooting him on the water if I couldnt kill him in the fight! It's just my opinion and thats the way I feel about it!:aok
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:lol You got that close, and didn't expect him to shoot? How long did you expect him to not shoot in self defense? Your lucky, a newbie that close would have rammed ya. I donn't know if you worked out the no shoot at 50 with him prior to your engagement, maybe he forgot you said not to shoot at 50? :lol I would have been shooting at 200 hoping for a lucky crippling shot, then i could have dinner and come back and 6 shoot ya! :lol
Well, next time you go against him you'll know to shoot at 51 right?
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Some people play for the "fight" and others just play for the "kill". Unless I get behind my oppenent, (3-9 line), then I will not fire. I do not expected any else to play by the same guidelines as me. I just wish to not play with those who just want to "kill". Running, stick stirring, ho'n, picking, ack hugging, are common tactics used by those who just want to "kill". These tactics ruin the gameplay for others.
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exactly kermit, well said.
and lets be honest, those of us who want a good fight are spoiling the fun of the afore mentioned types, as we continue to develope more ingenious and spectacular ways to kill the runners, ho'er, lamers etc before they get a chance to know they are in trouble:D
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Originally posted by Murdr
I wonder if Todd is aware he has been deposed? lol.
:furious
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Now you're teh Fairie Princess of Pwn. lolz zomg pwn
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:cry
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you need that sword from the WoW south park episode, then you would be a serious baddass princess of pwn.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
thank you karaya, you've always been proud to state your opinion even when you kow it wont be agreed with.
nomak, sadly no, i didnt film. maybe the player in question did and would like to post showing exactly why he thoughtit was a fair move to do. if he has a point that i can see i would gladly relent and appologise.
and yes, blauk, i do have alot of fights with people that 'cold merge'
its not so bad you should try it.
i'm nothing more than an average fighter in this game, but i hold a few things dear to me.
having the balls to fight past the HO is one thing i respect alot.
good luck on my future merges?
screw that im flying 190s and tempests from now on and HO'ing everyone. :D
Not to pick on ya Bat............. as your not the only person doing this.....
someone not too long back called me to the DA.
I agreed and showed. due to the UDP dropin on use everytime we entered the DA we both decided to DA another time.
Thing that bothered me is he said then and later, "at least you had the balls", WTF is that??????????? HUH??? BALLS??????? flyin a cartoon airplane ina cartoon world takes BALLS?????????????????????
Really don't understand this ???????????
Like how well I fly a cartoon airplane ina cartoon world is gonna change thing in Iraq or something? Gonna feed starving people somewhere?
Like any of us is really actually RISKING something here????????????
Reality check maybe???????????????
Anyone wannt explain this? is it cartoon balls we're talkin about here???? UGH shades of Roger Rabbit..................
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Yup! Cartoon ballz. Some have Em and some don't! :aok
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Sorry Bat, we have a good past but I need to defend a squadmate. From checking the film I see no HO, I just see a high-deflection shot that snipped of your tail rather quickly. I checked the film with trails on and from both views it just shows he had some alt on you and dove down on you and got the shot. Sorry bro... :aok
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sure it may not be a perfectly angled HO shot, as we have decided, its still lame gameplay and a pointless encounter.
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Originally posted by wrag
Not to pick on ya Bat............. as your not the only person doing this.....
someone not too long back called me to the DA.
I agreed and showed. due to the UDP dropin on use everytime we entered the DA we both decided to DA another time.
Thing that bothered me is he said then and later, "at least you had the balls", WTF is that??????????? HUH??? BALLS??????? flyin a cartoon airplane ina cartoon world takes BALLS?????????????????????
Really don't understand this ???????????
Like how well I fly a cartoon airplane ina cartoon world is gonna change thing in Iraq or something? Gonna feed starving people somewhere?
Like any of us is really actually RISKING something here????????????
Reality check maybe???????????????
Anyone wannt explain this? is it cartoon balls we're talkin about here???? UGH shades of Roger Rabbit..................
so if you dont need cartoon 'balls' (your words, not mine) then why do so many people run away when they might lose??
Why do you spend all day BnZ in a 109 without dying whrn you could be turn fighting on the deck and killing/dying alot more?
i never mentioned cartoon balls, my point was gameplay.
let me try and explain for those of you that still dont get it:
I played for a long time another online game that was first person shooter. i got quite into it, really enjoyed it for a few months..... then after a while i realised that i was just straight out killing. there was no point to it, i couldnt take films and learn from my mistakes, i couldnt ever make shooting someone with a rifle an art form in the cartoon world, so eventually i got bored and i dont play it anymore.
there are some who are just playing aces high the same way, killl, kill, kill with no talent for how you kill.
and you would be surprised how many long term players are infact scared of going to the DA incase it shows them how bad they are.
how many times do i have to explain why this stuff matters, its about a worthwhile fight rather than the only two planes in the sector flying ho at each other just for the sake of the fastest 'kill'.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
thank you karaya, you've always been proud to state your opinion even when you kow it wont be agreed with.
nomak, sadly no, i didnt film. maybe the player in question did and would like to post showing exactly why he thoughtit was a fair move to do. if he has a point that i can see i would gladly relent and appologise.
and yes, blauk, i do have alot of fights with people that 'cold merge'
its not so bad you should try it.
i'm nothing more than an average fighter in this game, but i hold a few things dear to me.
having the balls to fight past the HO is one thing i respect alot.
good luck on my future merges?
screw that im flying 190s and tempests from now on and HO'ing everyone. :D
????????????????? you didn't??????????????????????
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
so if you dont need cartoon 'balls' (your words, not mine) then why do so many people run away when they might lose??
Why do you spend all day BnZ in a 109 without dying whrn you could be turn fighting on the deck and killing/dying alot more?
i never mentioned cartoon balls, my point was gameplay.
let me try and explain for those of you that still dont get it:
I played for a long time another online game that was first person shooter. i got quite into it, really enjoyed it for a few months..... then after a while i realised that i was just straight out killing. there was no point to it, i couldnt take films and learn from my mistakes, i couldnt ever make shooting someone with a rifle an art form in the cartoon world, so eventually i got bored and i dont play it anymore.
there are some who are just playing aces high the same way, killl, kill, kill with no talent for how you kill.
and you would be surprised how many long term players are infact scared of going to the DA incase it shows them how bad they are.
how many times do i have to explain why this stuff matters, its about a worthwhile fight rather than the only two planes in the sector flying ho at each other just for the sake of the fastest 'kill'.
I don't B&Z all day ina 109. I fly other planes as well and can be found just as often down low as high alt.
You want a worthwhile fight? Probably work better if you SET one up somewhere.
I mean come on! In the arena we see NO name, we see an plane type. So how do we KNOW the other plane isn't going to HO when it comes at us?
MOST OFTEN they DO HO when they get nose on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How many times does it take? Don't matter if it's 1 v 1 or 10 v 1, how many times does it take to realize that SOME people will HO no matter what? And unless you KNOW who the other plane is, how you gonna KNOW the other person isn't gonna HO?
BTW, Major Richard Ira Bong was said to prefer the HO against IJ aircraft.
Chuck Yeager was shot down in a HO.
So IMHO the HO is valid ACM.
You or anyone else claiming it's lame or a lamer tactic does NOT make it so.
IMHO this sounds VERY much like a effort to get others to fly the way you want them to fly.
Sorry but it's their $14.95.
Why not look at it another way? Why not rejoice when you unexpectedly find another flying right at you and doesn't ho you 1st merge?
You are flying off alone in a sector looking for a 1 v 1 fight, but how do you KNOW what you've found isn't a noob uppin away from the action and just trying to learn?
You do know some fly in here that just LOVE to go hunt those types right?
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ahaha.. it's your fault for putting yourself in a position where you can be hit by a HO. ALWAYS assume you're going to be HO'd, and merge accordingly. You STILL haven't figured that one out?? :lol
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Your image of a good corsair pilot is disrespectful to those who actually know how to fly the plane! In game of course! Also you miss the point of the thread, it's about two pilots meeting up in a desolate part of the map. same plane, relatively same alt and speed, and a merge. Shooting on the merge in this sitiuation tells me someone "doesn't" have the confidence in piloting the corsair! Like I said before, if you know elfy, if he misses that shot he runs to ack! Please refrain from calling those tactics good Hog piloting! Cheap, pointless, gameplaying!
2 pilots meeting up in a desolete part of the map?
You are aware that some in AH fly in those areas lookin for noobs to pick that are uppin away from the action and tryin to learn to fly?
What? You say they can learn offline? Sorry it's NOT your 2 week free trial or your $14.95 they're learning on.
As to someone missin their shot and runnin for the ACK, seen ALLOT of AH'ers do just that!
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Originally posted by wrag
I don't B&Z all day ina 109. I fly other planes as well and can be found just as often down low as high alt.
You want a worthwhile fight? Probably work better if you SET one up somewhere.
I mean come on! In the arena we see NO name, we see an plane type. So how do we KNOW the other plane isn't going to HO when it comes at us?
MOST OFTEN they DO HO when they get nose on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How many times does it take? Don't matter if it's 1 v 1 or 10 v 1, how many times does it take to realize that SOME people will HO no matter what? And unless you KNOW who the other plane is, how you gonna KNOW the other person isn't gonna HO?
BTW, Major Richard Ira Bong was said to prefer the HO against IJ aircraft.
Chuck Yeager was shot down in a HO.
So IMHO the HO is valid ACM.
You or anyone else claiming it's lame or a lamer tactic does NOT make it so.
IMHO this sounds VERY much like a effort to get others to fly the way you want them to fly.
Sorry but it's their $14.95.
Why not look at it another way? Why not rejoice when you unexpectedly find another flying right at you and doesn't ho you 1st merge?
You are flying off alone in a sector looking for a 1 v 1 fight, but how do you KNOW what you've found isn't a noob uppin away from the action and just trying to learn?
You do know some fly in here that just LOVE to go hunt those types right?
Peeps who HO on first pass in a desolate part of the arena with no other planes around are LAME! :aok
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Originally posted by wetrat
ahaha.. it's your fault for putting yourself in a position where you can be hit by a HO. ALWAYS assume you're going to be HO'd, and merge accordingly. You STILL haven't figured that one out?? :lol
I agree! As much as people here me attack those who HO, I might get hit about 1/3 of 1% of the time with them! They do nothing to stop me from killling! I just think that those, especially vets, that would HO in a first pass one on one, are LAME! :aok
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Originally posted by wrag
2 pilots meeting up in a desolete part of the map?
You are aware that some in AH fly in those areas lookin for noobs to pick that are uppin away from the action and tryin to learn to fly?
LAME!
As to someone missin their shot and runnin for the ACK, seen ALLOT of AH'ers do just that! [/B][/QUOTE]
They're LAME too!
:aok
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"When he sees the enemy he attacks and kills, anything else is rubbish."
Manfred von Richthofen 1916
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Originally posted by SLED
"When he sees the enemy he attacks and kills, anything else is rubbish."
Manfred von Richthofen 1916
He's dead! ! This is a game, dont get off topic. anyone can fly through the arena and HO away, its their money, but they might be called a lamer! They definitely will by me!:aok
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I recorded an episode of a show on Discovery Channel called "Dogfight" or something like that. This episode was about the Cactus Airforce, interviews with the real pilots, the whole deal. Guess what these F4F pilots did on almost every merge, and evidently it was standard unit doctrine (at least against zero's).
Now that I know better I won't complain about anyone Ho'ing me again.
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Originally posted by Zanth
I recorded an episode of a show on Discovery Channel called "Dogfight" or something like that. This episode was about the Cactus Airforce, interviews with the real pilots, the whole deal. Guess what these F4F pilots did on almost every merge, and evidently it was standard unit doctrine (at least against zero's).
Now that I know better I won't complain about anyone Ho'ing me again.
Again the topic of the thread is pointless "GAME" play not what happened in WW2! Shall we go into the differences of AH and WW2, first this is now that was then, second that was real life this is game, .........oh nevermind!
:aok
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Originally posted by SkyRock
This is a game, dont get off topic. anyone can fly through the arena and HO away, its their money,
Your right, It is a game and if you want to play it like it is "Defender" or "Asteroids" (you know, Video games) you go right ahead. It's your $14.95. Some people like to play it like it is real and therefore might adopt real life tactics and put them to use.
but they might be called a lamer! They definitely will by me!
This is important? How?
By your words "it is a game". So how does it matter what you think of me or anyone else?
He's dead! !
His death does not make his words less truthful.
;)
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did you watch the film sled?
anyone who says that that situation is a good time to just ho or run, doesnt have a clue why i play the game.
each to thier own.
more practice = less hos = better fun fights
more hos = you suck = boring lame gameplay.
its quite simple.
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ALL our guns should point to the rear. No more "lame". But since they dont and my kill zone is dead 12'o . Guess what!!!!!!!!!!! Get in the fire cone I will fire. Only a "lame would put there self there right! O K arguement settled , pass in front of guns expect "the posibility of them being used for what they are intended ". All you guys callin names to bully people to fly the way you think is right, whats a name :lol Cept it might be a Fruedian slip:eek:
Oh my favorite plane is 190 a8. I dont mind the Head on pass at all.
I prefer not to take em, unfortunately there are better turners out there,so I fire when given the opertunity. I can imagine some of there expressions when my a8 DOES get the nose up in time :O . A a8 can turn. Once, maybe twice.:p
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Oh com'on now Bat, you know I watched the film. My first post on the subject was quite clear on that.
I don't see any reason for you to get short with me. You and I have flown together many times, and you know I can take care of myself in the knife fight.
The HO is not part of My regular bag of tricks, but it is in the bag somewhere.;) And depending on the situation (and how many planes I am facing) I have used it a time or two.
Your a good stick Bat, and a nice guy, you always get a from me ;)
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I'm as big a history fanatic as anyone here, if not more, but DON'T use historical use of the Head On as a reason to do it in AH.
There is absolutely no risk to a pilot in Aces High. It IS NOT a life and death decision where a mistake in judgement means that's all she wrote.
The second, HTC changes the rules to one death and you can never play again, then you can quote history regarding the HO. Until then it's just camoflage.
I totally understand that folks will continue to HO away in AH. I don't expect that will ever change, but it isn't some gallant risk taken in the heat of combat knowing your life might end forever if you miss.
In an air combat flight sim, it's still a cheap shot and will remain so, despite any protests to the contrary.
Now that's my opinion. Feel free to HO my 38G anytime you see me. Since I'm not dying anyway, I'll get over it :)
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Rikitic: yuh you said that already, no need to repaet it.
Sled: its not about all HOs, this thread, its about a 1 on 1 middle of nowhere and going for a HO shot or running.
im not short with you bro, you kow that, its just a discusion.
please remember, its not about hOs, its about finsing a fight and wasting it with a lame merge shot.
cant you see that?
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still wasnt a ho :aok
:noid
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Bat, it's about time you get off of your high horse. This was not the noble joust you preport it to be. You made two early moves hoping to get a quick reversal and kill. All Elfy did, is was what has been taught since Boelcke. Turn into your attacker. He countered your early moves and made a snap shot.
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Another thing that gets under my skin is guys who shoot down landing planes, weres the fun in it?
it serves no purpose,
yesterday i treid to land on carrier in a temp, was just touching(crashing) lol down onto deck, just typing '.ef' when, ping ping ping ping, you have been killed, argh. its the principal that bugged me, not the perks.
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wxman, it not even about high horses. although the prospect of getting a horse stoned does make me chuckle.
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I wont reduce the rent when you land on my hotels in monopoly. I won't delay my snap count until you say you're ready in football. I won't hesitate to castle in chess to make it more sporting. I won't hold back on a shot when you muff the merge in AH.
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Originally posted by TW9
still wasnt a ho :aok
:noid
:lol :noid :rofl :noid
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Originally posted by WxMan
Bat, it's about time you get off of your high horse. This was not the noble joust you preport it to be. You made two early moves hoping to get a quick reversal and kill. All Elfy did, is was what has been taught since Boelcke. Turn into your attacker. He countered your early moves and made a snap shot.
I have been in many exchanges with Elfy and several other of his squaddies. Elfy will try and get the HO shot everytime and if he misses and no squaddies are around, in his chog, he will run like the dickens. Is this against the rules? No. Is this historically accurate strategy? Yes. Is this lame in AH? Yes! Why anyone who has flown right beside him would try and make out like Elfy was calculating Bats moves and took the incredible inverted high deflection, when they know good and well no matter what Bat would have done Elfy would have been firing away on the first head on merge! But then again I guess it something to argue about on the boards instead of opening the co-workers idiot e-mail jokes about fat ladies! I might add, I don't dislike Elfy, I am sure he is an oustanding friend and squaddie. I do however think many of his HO attempts are lame! As a matter of fact, I mentioned something about a friendly HOing a plane right off the runway the other day and Elfy was within range and he cursed me out! He knows whats up! I guess sometimes when the shoe fits, wearing it makes you sore! :aok
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Originally posted by Laurie
Another thing that gets under my skin is guys who shoot down landing planes, weres the fun in it?
it serves no purpose,
yesterday i treid to land on carrier in a temp, was just touching(crashing) lol down onto deck, just typing '.ef' when, ping ping ping ping, you have been killed, argh. its the principal that bugged me, not the perks.
First time I've found I agree with you, Laurie. Kewl.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Booz
I wont reduce the rent when you land on my hotels in monopoly. I won't delay my snap count until you say you're ready in football. I won't hesitate to castle in chess to make it more sporting. I won't hold back on a shot when you muff the merge in AH.
:rofl
Best post in this thread.
Sorry Bat,I have to agree with Slapshot and a few others on this one.I was on the morning this happend.Should he have shot?Probably not.Would any other player shoot?Probably so.Would I have shot?Probably not.You had a good angle comeing into the merge,thats how I prefer to merge against plane,but it appears that as you angled off to the left you waited to late to pull back into him,and he was comeing in off angle as well and pulled into you.
All in all,this is what you can expect from 9 outta 10 players in the MA.weather it be in a 1v1 or in a furball.
I've dueled you and many many others and there are rules of engagement in the DA that don't apply to MA,as you know,but even in the DA if the con pulls up and tries to get angles at let's say 400 before merge,then all is good,but if the con tries to open his merge out to 800 before the flight paths intersect,then ,well you just pulled too early and the guns come out.You've done this exact thing to me,as well as several others who have posted here.I've done this exact thing to you as well as several others here
You know where to find me if you ever wanna duel and I accept all challenges from all players in all planes.:)
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Originally posted by SkyRock
I have been in many exchanges with Elfy and several other of his squaddies. Elfy will try and get the HO shot everytime and if he misses and no squaddies are around, in his chog, he will run like the dickens. Is this against the rules? No. Is this historically accurate strategy? Yes. Is this lame in AH? Yes! Why anyone who has flown right beside him would try and make out like Elfy was calculating Bats moves and took the incredible inverted high deflection, when they know good and well no matter what Bat would have done Elfy would have been firing away on the first head on merge! But then again I guess it something to argue about on the boards instead of opening the co-workers idiot e-mail jokes about fat ladies! I might add, I don't dislike Elfy, I am sure he is an oustanding friend and squaddie. I do however think many of his HO attempts are lame! As a matter of fact, I mentioned something about a friendly HOing a plane right off the runway the other day and Elfy was within range and he cursed me out! He knows whats up! I guess sometimes when the shoe fits, wearing it makes you sore! :aok
So his manuevers are historically accurate and not againt the rules...but because you deem it lame and have made it your personal mission to label Elfy as skilless, a lamer, a runner and HO artist numerous times in this thread, and you're surprised he cursed at you. You made it personal.
I'm sure you have had many encounters with the AK's. You and I have only met once, and the only thing that made the encounter memorable was the 10 minute whine on ch 200 after I shot you down. :)
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Originally posted by wrag
Thing that bothered me is he said then and later, "at least you had the balls", WTF is that??????????? HUH??? BALLS??????? flyin a cartoon airplane ina cartoon world takes BALLS?????????????????????
Really don't understand this ???????????
Like any of us is really actually RISKING something here????????????
Anyone wannt explain this?
I'll be happy to. First of all, as you said above, this is a game. Just because it is played over the net it does not mean it does not exist. It is very real. As real as any game you ever played. Board, cards, etc. The thing that most games are good at is to show/expose ones personality. The same goes for this game. If you don't have the balls to fight because you are afraid of losing (since this is the only risk you have to take) it tells a lot about who you are in real life.
You can hide behind the words cartoon and virtual all you want, but this is a game. As real as any other game. Your actions here do show who you are in real life. If you whine in real life, you whine here too. If you use profanity in real life, you use it here too. If you are a bad loser in real life, you are one here too. If you are not honest about who you really are in real life, you are not honest here and hide behind the words virtual and cartoon.
You see? This is real after all. (This coming from a cartoon character, lol)
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Originally posted by Oldman731
First time I've found I agree with you, Laurie. Kewl.
- oldman
;) different opinions on one subject agree on another,:aok
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Originally posted by BugsBunny
I'll be happy to. First of all, as you said above, this is a game. Just because it is played over the net it does not mean it does not exist. It is very real. As real as any game you ever played. Board, cards, etc. The thing that most games are good at is to show/expose ones personality. The same goes for this game. If you don't have the balls to fight because you are afraid of losing (since this is the only risk you have to take) it tells a lot about who you are in real life.
You can hide behind the words cartoon and virtual all you want, but this is a game. As real as any other game. Your actions here do show who you are in real life. If you whine in real life, you whine here too. If you use profanity in real life, you use it here too. If you are a bad loser in real life, you are one here too. If you are not honest about who you really are in real life, you are not honest here and hide behind the words virtual and cartoon.
You see? This is real after all. (This coming from a cartoon character, lol)
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl sorry but I don' see it quite that way.........
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Originally posted by WxMan
So his manuevers are historically accurate and not againt the rules...but because you deem it lame and have made it your personal mission to label Elfy as skilless, a lamer, a runner and HO artist numerous times in this thread, and you're surprised he cursed at you. You made it personal.
I'm sure you have had many encounters with the AK's. You and I have only met once, and the only thing that made the encounter memorable was the 10 minute whine on ch 200 after I shot you down. :)
Lol, wxman. I think you are lying. And you probably consider it whining for saying someone is lame for HOing, right? You braging about getting a kill on me in a 4 on 1, or was it 5 on 1, or maybe just 3 on 1?? When ever you want to set the record straight, we will go to DA and film 5 fights! I will post them here no matter what the outcome! WHat's your fav ride? the hellcat? the hog? the HOicaine2C? Oh, and by the way, I hadn't yet posted in this thread when he cursed me out so again I think you should get your facts straight before you come in here manipulating the thread with falsehoods! I might also add, that "IF" you decide to put your money where your mouth is, I do not HO on any merge! But then again, that wouldn't be historically accurate of me, huh!~
And one last thing just for all you folks that think I been to hard on Elfy because of this film, its no just this clip, I have met him on many many occasions in his Chog and yes I dodge first and shoot later, if he is alone he dies relatively easy after he misses the HO......that is if you can catch him! :aok
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SkyRock takes this "game" (his words) really REALLY seriously, lighten up sky , it's only a GAME.
:lol
HT said we are supposed to have FUN, you don't sound like your having much fun.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Lol, wxman. I think you are lying. ...... Oh, and by the way, I hadn't yet posted in this thread when he cursed me out so again I think you should get your facts straight before you come in here manipulating the thread with falsehoods!
Originally posted by SkyRock
I mentioned something about a friendly HOing a plane right off the runway the other day and Elfy was within range and he cursed me out!
So much for lying and manipulating a thread.
Originally posted by SkyRock
You braging about getting a kill on me.... When ever you want to set the record straight, we will go to DA...
I care very little as to how big your cartoon gonads are but thank you for taking the bait. BTW it was a 1 vs. 1. Amazing how sensitive you are to being called a cry baby and your fight unmemorable. Yet you continue on your tirade and insults of Elfy.
You have shown that you are of dubious intellect and ability, as well as being morally supsect.
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wrag, I've tried to discuss with you tactics and gameplay before. I've given up on you a long time ago.
Bat, I'm now convinced that no matter how many times you clearly write out your point, there are still who will not understand what you are trying to say.
I think people will continue to "kill" and not "fight" is because they can.
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trying to figure out "kill" and "fight".
hows this, a "fight" is where you get to show off your superpilot skils before you kill the other pilot, but if the other pilot "kills" you before you get to show off your superpilot skils they are a lamer?
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Originally posted by john9001
trying to figure out "kill" and "fight".
hows this, a "fight" is where you get to show off your superpilot skils before you kill the other pilot, but if the other pilot "kills" you before you get to show off your superpilot skils they are a lamer?
:lol
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Originally posted by Creton
:rofl
Best post in this thread.
yup funny... and you know what creton, you were one of the guys i lost all my 'virtual' respect for that day. not that i expect that to bother you, i hope i doesnt. now i just think you're a useless tard with as much understanding of the topic of debate here as someone like rikitic or John90210. go back to what you do best, making a squadron of guys that can worship the ground you walk on. Its sad for me to say this cos we've had good fun i the past, but you are showing yourself to be truly clueless.
Originally posted by BugsBunny
I'll be happy to. First of all, as you said above, this is a game. Just because it is played over the net it does not mean it does not exist. It is very real. As real as any game you ever played. Board, cards, etc. The thing that most games are good at is to show/expose ones personality. The same goes for this game. If you don't have the balls to fight because you are afraid of losing (since this is the only risk you have to take) it tells a lot about who you are in real life.
You can hide behind the words cartoon and virtual all you want, but this is a game. As real as any other game. Your actions here do show who you are in real life. If you whine in real life, you whine here too. If you use profanity in real life, you use it here too. If you are a bad loser in real life, you are one here too. If you are not honest about who you really are in real life, you are not honest here and hide behind the words virtual and cartoon.
You see? This is real after all. (This coming from a cartoon character, lol)
brilliant post bugs, you really hit the nail on the proverbial head. Salute!
Originally posted by WxMan
.
I care very little as to how big your cartoon gonads are but thank you for taking the bait.
bait? SO you are just here to bait people then jump on the reply? and you question the intelect of others. LOL at you sir.
would seem to me the biased person here is you, and all you care to do is jump to elfy's deffence.
what was your ingame name again, do you even play anymore?
Originally posted by Kermit de frog
wrag, I've tried to discuss with you tactics and gameplay before. I've given up on you a long time ago.
Bat, I'm now convinced that no matter how many times you clearly write out your point, there are still who will not understand what you are trying to say.
I think people will continue to "kill" and not "fight" is because they can.
it's sad but true kermit, very well said S! sir.
Originally posted by john9001
trying to figure out "kill" and "fight".
hows this, a "fight" is where you get to show off your superpilot skils before you kill the other pilot, but if the other pilot "kills" you before you get to show off your superpilot skils they are a lamer?
not in the least bit true. Had elfy beaten me using a few ACMs (yes, they do exist even in cartoon world) then i would have saluted.
i'm still in the tower, he still got the kill on me.
theres a big difference in how we get there, but you wouldnt understand that if i wrote it out in backwards writting and nailed it to your head for you to read in the mirror each morning as you tell yourself 'you're looking good, sexy'.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
TW9, still cant work out if youre just trolling or youre serious. sad if you are serious.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
First time I've found I agree with you, Laurie. Kewl.
- oldman
I was going to suggest that maybe the guy shooting Laurie as he was touching down thought he was being creative :)
Although I would also agree with Laurie on this one. Seems pointless to me as well.
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situation .
3V1
your the 1.
your in a F4
3 bogies are in FW190D
first bogey is HO do you fire or not ?
if you fire you are more likely to beable to fend of other 2
if you don't your now bounced form 1 bogey to the others.
what would you do?
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in that situation? i may just HO them if i can. most likely i wont because F4 guns VS 190 guns are not gunna make me the winner.
its unrelated though, as the situation we are discusing is 1 on 1 with not the slightest chance of the fight being disturbed from either player's team.
i didnt call this thread 'HO whine thread' i called it 'pointless gameplay whine thread' ;)
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
TW9, still cant work out if youre just trolling or youre serious. sad if you are serious.
last post about the ho thing was a troll i guess lately just been laughing about whats been said.. anyways i havent really figured out yet what ur mad about.. was it because u think he ho'd u or because he took the snapshot u gave him at the merge?
the ho i dont agree with which ive already said b4.. film does not show a a ho imo at all..
on the other hand if its the fact that he took the shot instead of fighting it out 1st i can see what ur talking about atleast on film. though i dont agree that anybody should have to give up a shot just to fight it out like that.. and just because u think they should shouldnt constitute them being a lamer. and u did make the 1st offensive manuever so imo u asked for it more than once anyways..
i dont know elfy im not friends with him. im just telling it how i saw it and getting a idea of what he might of saw.. considering the tracers shot past ur tail on ur fe just shows that it probably didnt even look close to ho on his..
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so the moral is ?
marbles cos i'm dislexic.
you can't slag people off cos the HO ,
Just send a message to them and have a chuckle . i kept coliding with this one guy we just turned it into a joke. Niether of us did it intesionaly just happens .
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
theres a big difference in how we get there, but you wouldnt understand that if i wrote it out in backwards writting and nailed it to your head for you to read in the mirror each morning as you tell yourself 'you're looking good, sexy'.
is a personal attack the same as a HO?
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If it's a duel, I won't take the headon. What's the sport in that? If it's not a duel, then I'll take whatever shot I have available. Right, Jaxxo? :lol
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by john9001
is a personal attack the same as a HO?
LOL maybe so john, but even if that was a ho shot, it was well after the merge and only because you came spraying from 1.1k .
Originally posted by TW9
last post about the ho thing was a troll i guess lately just been laughing about whats been said.. anyways i havent really figured out yet what ur mad about.. was it because u think he ho'd u or because he took the snapshot u gave him at the merge?
ok, theres so many HO whines that obviously because i include (false or not) the word HO in my posts, it could seem the that is the issue.
the 2nd one is what got me 'mad' but it was only for a few seconds, by the time i had posted here it was more about finding out who thinks a fight is fun and who just wants to kill.
i think you have some very fair points in this thread even if i dont agree with them all. between you and slapshot i realise my 'ho' terminology was maybe incorrect, but then its not a ho whine thread.
Deadmanflying: you gunna take that shot even in co-alt, co-E, same plane 1 on 1 fight?
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Originally posted by john9001
SkyRock takes this "game" (his words) really REALLY seriously, lighten up sky , it's only a GAME.
:lol
HT said we are supposed to have FUN, you don't sound like your having much fun.
I have tons O fun, Bro! I just like a good ranting raging argument every now and then as well! I have stated that I don't have anything against Elfy out of game, I disagree with his HOs but, hey it is just a game!
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Originally posted by WxMan
So much for lying and manipulating a thread.
I care very little as to how big your cartoon gonads are but thank you for taking the bait. BTW it was a 1 vs. 1. Amazing how sensitive you are to being called a cry baby and your fight unmemorable. Yet you continue on your tirade and insults of Elfy.
You have shown that you are of dubious intellect and ability, as well as being morally supsect.
You have proven that you have no common sense! Let me put it to you this way! I read the opening of this thread at work but could not see the film. So I waited to comment. I got home and logged on that evening without commenting on this thread before hand. I was at A10 and someone (not Elfy but he was there) HOd a plane that had just gotten wheels up and I said something about it. AKElfy blasted out on range, "YOu got a problem with me Death? Is Batfink one of your friends and been telling you about what happened? Why don't you just STFU! You weren't there!" Now, why don't you take your foot out of your mouth and defend something worth defending! If you want to talk big turkey to me, how you shot me down, then meet me in the DA any plane and we will post the film. I believe you will die(virtually speaking that is) relatively quick after the merge! Again, I have stated that it is my OPINION that Elfy is a cheap shot HO guy, "in game"! Now wxman, do you want to play? Do you want to try your hand at defeating me in a duel? = terms and no HO shots? Head-on merge? Maybe you just like to come n here and type! I seriously doubt you would ever get guns on me in a duel! :aok
I will give kudos to several sticks in the AK's and think that most in the squad are nice fellows. to those!
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Originally posted by B3YT
situation .
3V1
your the 1.
your in a F4
3 bogies are in FW190D
first bogey is HO do you fire or not ?
if you fire you are more likely to beable to fend of other 2
if you don't your now bounced form 1 bogey to the others.
what would you do?
I only call HO's lame that are 1 vs 1's or better odds, if your down in that situation HO away! Now if you get them down to one on one, then just spank him with acm's so he'll know you own him! hee hee !:aok
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Originally posted by TW9
last post about the ho thing was a troll i guess lately just been laughing about whats been said.. anyways i havent really figured out yet what ur mad about.. was it because u think he ho'd u or because he took the snapshot u gave him at the merge?
the ho i dont agree with which ive already said b4.. film does not show a a ho imo at all..
on the other hand if its the fact that he took the shot instead of fighting it out 1st i can see what ur talking about atleast on film. though i dont agree that anybody should have to give up a shot just to fight it out like that.. and just because u think they should shouldnt constitute them being a lamer. and u did make the 1st offensive manuever so imo u asked for it more than once anyways..
i dont know elfy im not friends with him. im just telling it how i saw it and getting a idea of what he might of saw.. considering the tracers shot past ur tail on ur fe just shows that it probably didnt even look close to ho on his..
I completely agree with TW on this except I have been HOd by Elfy while fighting 1 vs 4's and such so I can comment on his style! I have told bat I think he played it way wrong, but when I found out it was AKHOElfy in his CHOG it just rang a bell! :aok
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
Deadmanflying: you gunna take that shot even in co-alt, co-E, same plane 1 on 1 fight?
:rofl I met Lev and Stang at FT one eve they both in Temps. I think I was in spit16 first and they jumped me and we had some nice angles going but they were all over me and shredded me. So I know what they flying so I come off mntn getting speed this time in Chog cause I'm more confident in angle fighting with a hog. I came in on a head on merge and was going to split them and roll on the one to the left...........when about 800 yrds out I see tracers and bam! there goes left wing! System: Stang has shot you down! :lol Now it was definitely a HO and I called him out on 200, (may have been something like, "you lamer HO dweeb!) but I have fought Stang enough times to have a "general" respect for his style! So its generally out of character to see one or even two incidents of blatant HO dawgging from him! Others that HO you, or attempt to everytime you run into them is a different story all together!:aok
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OK now 6 posts in a row, I feel better!
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Levi will always take the HO.
Learned that the hard way.
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So, I think I have this figured out.
If you like the guy, it's okay if he HO's you.
If you don't like the guy, he's a lamer.
Is that the moral?
And for the record, Stang and Levi take every HO/front quarter/deflection shot they can manage to hit. Don't fool yourselves into thinking otherwise, or you'll get shot in the face. Trust me on this.
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
wrag, I've tried to discuss with you tactics and gameplay before. I've given up on you a long time ago.
Bat, I'm now convinced that no matter how many times you clearly write out your point, there are still who will not understand what you are trying to say.
I think people will continue to "kill" and not "fight" is because they can.
As I recall you seemed to think having your helper come in high and dive for my 6 was just fine because I wasn't fighting you the way you seemed to think I should.
You were in your typhon and I was in a K4. Yu flew the Typhie the way you thought it should be fought and I flew the K4 the way I thought it should be flown. Which BTW IMHO is VERTICAL! Typhie doesn't do vertical well against a K4 IMHO.
I shot you down, what was it, twice? Thrid time we engaged your friend came in in a spit, jumped me from high alt, and ended up shooting me down.
IMHO callin in a friend or squadie to help you in a 1 v 1 that IIRC you requested! is LAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EXTREMELY LAME!!!!!!!!!!!
That's the way I remember it. I also remember you trying to justify your actions afterward. I didn't and still don't agree with your attempts at justifiying your actions on that date.
Further the claims you made regarding my squadies and your relationship with them were, according to my squadies, is now, and was then, UNTRUE!
Hence there is very little that you can say that I care to listen too, or give any credit/credence too.
So giving up on me agreeing with your style of AH'n is probably wise.
If I fight in a requested 1 v 1 and someone comes into the fight I break off from the fight and/or try to warn the others off with the message that this is a private fight! I have NEVER called upon a squadie or a friend to assist in any such fight! Even if the person WASN'T FIGHTING me the way I wanted them to! I either won or lost on my own. If any interference occured I consider the fight a NON-FIGHT from that point on and took no further action against my opponnent. Even apoligizing if the person that jumped in to the fight shot down my opponent!
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I love the new set-up. Now to take fields you need some real strategy including co-ordinated fighter sweeps and close escort of bombers. No longer can five guys just waltz over to one of the 250 vacant fields, spank down the town in 2 min and drop troops.
I have real respect for base capture guys now with the new set-up, it requires alot of planning, co-ordination and intelligence, any bases they get are well deserved and earned...
New Set-Up base capture guys!
Zazen
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Originally posted by SkyRock
:rofl I met Lev and Stang at FT one eve they both in Temps. I think I was in spit16 first and they jumped me and we had some nice angles going but they were all over me and shredded me. So I know what they flying so I come off mntn getting speed this time in Chog cause I'm more confident in angle fighting with a hog. I came in on a head on merge and was going to split them and roll on the one to the left...........when about 800 yrds out I see tracers and bam! there goes left wing! System: Stang has shot you down! :lol Now it was definitely a HO and I called him out on 200, (may have been something like, "you lamer HO dweeb!) but I have fought Stang enough times to have a "general" respect for his style! So its generally out of character to see one or even two incidents of blatant HO dawgging from him! Others that HO you, or attempt to everytime you run into them is a different story all together!:aok
I always HO when I can get a guaranteed whine, and especially when I know it's you.
:t
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
So, I think I have this figured out.
If you like the guy, it's okay if he HO's you.
If you don't like the guy, he's a lamer.
Is that the moral?
And for the record, Stang and Levi take every HO/front quarter/deflection shot they can manage to hit. Don't fool yourselves into thinking otherwise, or you'll get shot in the face. Trust me on this.
Hub, don't twist it! If I fight a guy 30 times and he HO's me twice, yet the other 28 times he puts up a he11 of a fight, then I generally have respect for the guy! If I fight a guy 30 times and he HOs me 28 times, he's definitely a lamer! :aok
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Hub's right though, if I'm in the thick of the fight I'll take any shot I can get that puts me at the least chance of being shot down. If a guy is clearly going to not ho me, yet we are merging with a lot of other cons around, you betcha I'm going to take it.
However, if it's just me and 1 other guy with no one else around, I would probably never ho.
In the particular case mentioned, I probably sensed it was you and I was trying to steal every one of Elf boy (Levi's) kills, so I took it.
;)
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Hub, don't twist it! If I fight a guy 30 times and he HO's me twice, yet the other 28 times he puts up a he11 of a fight, then I generally have respect for the guy! If I fight a guy 30 times and he HOs me 28 times, he's definitely a lamer! :aok
sounds reasonable
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Originally posted by Stang
...and I was trying to steal every one of Elf boy (Levi's) kills, so I took it.
lol, my impression on that one was correct :)
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Originally posted by Stang
In the particular case mentioned, I probably sensed it was you and I was trying to steal every one of Elf boy (Levi's) kills, so I took it.
;)
Or............save the both of you from certain and immensly painful pwnage! hee hee:rofl
:noid
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Originally posted by Murdr
lol, my impression on that one was correct :)
:lol
;)
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Levi is a MEAN MEAN man ... :cry
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Levi is a MEAN MEAN Elf-b10tch ... :cry
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#1 anyone notice that there was frikin 5"s goin off all over from the CV? Didnt exactly have all the time in the world and was headed AT the CV
#2 was GOIN 2 cold merge till i realized HE had more E.Read the speeds, I was around 40 mph slower
#3 HE was allready pulling UP to immel-reverse, so i had allready lost the reverse b4 it even happened
#4 if ya get in My plane, chase view, and pause it at impact ,then rotate the angles its prolly 20degrees off
#5 since all these things were goin on, and fink did NOTHING to avoid it, i SHOT him, o well. Im frikin SORRRRRRY i shot the tail of yer plane off that way. But never in my life have i heard anyone cry so much over an incident in A GAME!!!:rofl go getlaaidOnceIn a while,,, geesh akELFY
BTW all u with the slanderous "skyrock attitude" call me out on 200 ANYTIME, ull see how well i cant reverse:t
one last thing, anyone who doesnt like how i fly can take some BIGbites of yer favorite flavor o dung. Dont like it, SHOOT me, just stop the crying:cry
GO here and stop it at EXACTLY 50seconds ,externalview, then use sliders so that u look STRAIGHT(head-on) into finks cockpit...notice the angle:p
http://speedyshare.com/185732345.html
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Originally posted by wrag
If I fight in a requested 1 v 1 and someone comes into the fight I break off from the fight and/or try to warn the others off with the message that this is a private fight! I have NEVER called upon a squadie or a friend to assist in any such fight! Even if the person WASN'T FIGHTING me the way I wanted them to! I either won or lost on my own. If any interference occured I consider the fight a NON-FIGHT from that point on and took no further action against my opponnent. Even apoligizing if the person that jumped in to the fight shot down my opponent!
If remember asking on ch200 if anyone wanted to fight. After a co alt co E fight was arranged, you continued to climb about 10k higher than me before the fight began. Then you did not fight me. You used bnz tactics and I dodged your shots. Acting like target practice to you. Had I known you were going to do this, I would not have agreed on the arranged fight. After you did this twice, I had a squaddie climb out oustide icon range to sit high above the fight, possibly 10k above us to make sure you didn't run away, which you did in the previous 2 fights. I am convinced that you are truely idiotic-like in person. But I now also know you are a liar (twisting the truth on purpose). I'm writing this becuase of what you publicly said about me and people should know the truth when lies are said of me.
I'm not really saying this to try to help you, I'm saying this to everyone else that reads this.
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Originally posted by Stang
Hub's right though, if I'm in the thick of the fight I'll take any shot I can get that puts me at the least chance of being shot down. If a guy is clearly going to not ho me, yet we are merging with a lot of other cons around, you betcha I'm going to take it.
However, if it's just me and 1 other guy with no one else around, I would probably never ho.
;)
exactly, and i agree 100%
the fact is this was a 1 on 1 with nothing else around.
too many people have overlooked this, and just seen this as a HO whine.
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Originally posted by DOUG
#1 anyone notice that there was frikin 5"s goin off all over from the CV? Didnt exactly have all the time in the world and was headed AT the CV
#2 was GOIN 2 cold merge till i realized HE had more E.Read the speeds, I was around 40 mph slower
#3 HE was allready pulling UP to immel-reverse, so i had allready lost the reverse b4 it even happened
#4 if ya get in My plane, chase view, and pause it at impact ,then rotate the angles its prolly 20degrees off
#5 since all these things were goin on, and fink did NOTHING to avoid it, i SHOT him, o well. Im frikin SORRRRRRY i shot the tail of yer plane off that way. But never in my life have i heard anyone cry so much over an incident in A GAME!!!:rofl go getlaaidOnceIn a while,,, geesh akELFY
BTW all u with the slanderous "skyrock attitude" call me out on 200 ANYTIME, ull see how well i cant reverse:t
one last thing, anyone who doesnt like how i fly can take some BIGbites of yer favorite flavor o dung. Dont like it, SHOOT me, just stop the crying:cry
GO here and stop it at EXACTLY 50seconds ,externalview, then use sliders so that u look STRAIGHT(head-on) into finks cockpit...notice the angle:p
http://speedyshare.com/185732345.html
finally, the man in question. welcome to page 5.
Elfy, the matter is not anything to do with HO or not quite HO....
its about a fair fight being ended before it begun.
all your pontifications about my E state were because you choose to merge with the intention of shooting. had you any clue about a 1 on 1 duel you would have done wahat i did and dive into it for vertical seperation on merge.
you claim i have more E (energy) you are so wrong and yet again proove how little you really know.
E - Energy = Alt + Speed, not speed alone.
if we add your Altitude advantage at 2k before merge, and then factor in both our speeds, you will find you are the one who has more E. E is potential energy not just how fast you are going.
answer me this, what was to stop you pulling up and roping me? you had more than enough speed and altitude to rope me had you not turned into me at 1k seperation with the only thing on your mind being an easy shoot to kill chance.
had you missed your shot, then you woulda been screwed because you threw away all you advantage by going for that shot, had you continued to stay above me while i dive for merge, you had more than enough speed+alt to rope me.
honestly, without a word of a lie, had you roped me and come right down and HO'ed me as i tried to get a shot off on the climb, i would of sent you an S! and said nice kill.
if anybody cannot understand this then i wonder why you even play a game that potentially has so much skill to be used, when all you want to do is make things as easy as possible with as little risk as you can manage.
and to say that there was a 5" gunner targeting you also is pure bullchit, i was the only person in the area for a good 10-15 mins
my favorite times are heart pumping nail bitting fights.
when was the last time you got a rush out of that kind of kill?
oh and i agree with you about it being a game and not worth taking seriously. doesnt mean that your poor example of sportsmanship and skill here isnt worth discussing to cover every other poor example of sportsmanship and skill displayed daily here.
hamish
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additional topic
as for getting laid?? i just got some about 2 hours ago :D doesnt really count though, no challenge, ive been with the same girl for over 4 years now. I geuss that means im a no skill lamer when it comes to women, but hell, i like this one and just because its easy dont mean i dont get great thrill in the sack still. so saying this i can maybe see why you enjoy doing the same moves and getting the same kills year after year without a challenge or an attempt to better yourself.
in a way, my 4 year girlfriend/easy sex life and your 4 or more years of no skilled/same watermelon different day flying styles are a metaphore for each other.
lol, we have something in common.
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Originally posted by DOUG
#1 anyone notice that there was frikin 5"s goin off all over from the CV? Didnt exactly have all the time in the world and was headed AT the CV
#2 was GOIN 2 cold merge till i realized HE had more E.Read the speeds, I was around 40 mph slower
#3 HE was allready pulling UP to immel-reverse, so i had allready lost the reverse b4 it even happened
#4 if ya get in My plane, chase view, and pause it at impact ,then rotate the angles its prolly 20degrees off
#5 since all these things were goin on, and fink did NOTHING to avoid it, i SHOT him, o well. Im frikin SORRRRRRY i shot the tail of yer plane off that way. But never in my life have i heard anyone cry so much over an incident in A GAME!!!:rofl go getlaaidOnceIn a while,,, geesh akELFY
BTW all u with the slanderous "skyrock attitude" call me out on 200 ANYTIME, ull see how well i cant reverse:t
one last thing, anyone who doesnt like how i fly can take some BIGbites of yer favorite flavor o dung. Dont like it, SHOOT me, just stop the crying:cry
GO here and stop it at EXACTLY 50seconds ,externalview, then use sliders so that u look STRAIGHT(head-on) into finks cockpit...notice the angle:p
http://speedyshare.com/185732345.html
This is not 200, but you want to know how to fly a hog?? Wait......NO HOing! :rofl Doug, If you read my posts, you will see that I have given you the human respect you deserve as we all do, out of game! I just have been HOd by you way to many times to take your style "in game" very seriously! It's usually ganging, or HOing and running! I hope life is treating you well out of game though!
Mark
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best
pursefight
evar.
well, no, it's not , but it's been amusing.
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(to Kermit)
I am doubting very much that Wrag came in 10k above an agreed upon alt. (If you did Wrag, shame on you, you deserved to get jumped by the Spit)
I DO believe that he came in w/ alot o' Energy, merged up, and kept the fight going up, up, up. You do tend to bled a lot of E in that Tiffy, so his 109K getting alt on you isn't much of a stretch. In fact it is very probable knowing how both of you fight.
The above being what I believe, I see it as Wrag got alt/e off the merge, started to B/Z, you got sick of dodging his attacks and called someone in to attack him. I DO find it very disturbing that you called in a squaddie to a pre-arrainged fight.
(I still love you though)
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
If remember asking on ch200 if anyone wanted to fight. After a co alt co E fight was arranged, you continued to climb about 10k higher than me before the fight began. Then you did not fight me. You used bnz tactics and I dodged your shots. Acting like target practice to you. Had I known you were going to do this, I would not have agreed on the arranged fight. After you did this twice, I had a squaddie climb out oustide icon range to sit high above the fight, possibly 10k above us to make sure you didn't run away, which you did in the previous 2 fights. I am convinced that you are truely idiotic-like in person. But I now also know you are a liar (twisting the truth on purpose). I'm writing this becuase of what you publicly said about me and people should know the truth when lies are said of me.
I'm not really saying this to try to help you, I'm saying this to everyone else that reads this.
I recall NO stipulations as to alt or merge or anything. Arranged???? Was NOT the case as I recall.
I do recall you asking me to fight. But it was more like hey lets fight i'll meet ya in such and such sector. I didn't volunteer to fight you, I did not ask you to fight. I greeted you on public and you asked me to fight. Wasn't much of anything else going on so I said ok. NO requirements were made as to aircraft, alt, speed, merge, nothing was prearranged IIRC SIR! BTW I very rarely do such things.
I also recall REPEATEDLY telling you, on public channel, I was climbing to the fight.
I also recall REPEATEDLY telling you, on public channel, that you should climb to the fight.
WHY? I usually enjoy a fight more if it starts at alt.
I'm pretty sure from all our prevoius engagements that you were fully aware I was coming in a 109.
10K??? I think it was more like 5K but I also recall comin in close, and reversing a few time rather quickly, bleeding allot of E, missin allot because I have a real hard time hittin anything, including the GROUND, with the stupid 30mm, and having you chase and shoot at me from about 600 out more then once. I used the K4's speed and climb to get me out of trouble more then once in all 3 of those fights. I thought you were doing fairly well. I had fought you several times before. It was VERY much the same in those fights. Which BTW causes me to ask you why you thought it would be different? And you usually got saved by your buddy in most of those fights IIRC. Thinkin I could ask some of my squadies to be sure. I do admit you didn't seem to want to HO, I give you that.
And B&Z is fighting no matter HOW MUCH you want it to be otherwise. It's NOT turn fighting, which is what you wanted, but it is fighting. Further IMHO I wasn't B&Z'ing, I was energy fighting. There is a difference. I did get in close and fairly slow while fighting you. When it looked bad I used my energy to pull me out and then came back in. I did this several times.
As to your buddy being 10K above the fight? I did one of those attack reverse attack reverse etc until I needed seperation. I climbed out abit, turned toward you, was getting ready to come back and engage when something made me look back. There was your friend 800 out comin in on my 6. I evaded, but the spit broke and climbed out, and I asked you who the spit was and what was it doing there.
It was then that you informed me that I was not fighting you the way you wanted me to, and your friend was there to shoot me if I didn't start fightin you the way you wanted me to.
So I wouldn't Run AWAY? I had already fought you until one of use was shot down TWICE, which was you both times, so WHY would I suddenly chose to run away?????????????????
Now.........
You SIR have called me a liar, and an idiot.
Soooooooooo lets take the part where YOU claimed that you were close friends with my squadies (You used the name Lute, I asked him afterwards and he said NOPE NO WAY!)............. that I had better beware because they had been showing you things (he said that was not true {ALSO?}) ............. and you were going to record this fight so you could shame me before my squadies.
I'm sure we could get him to vouch for one of us, huh? what do you say? If you like YOU can even be the one to ask him :D :D :D
(hmm thinkin we had this conversation before on the bbs????)
(thinkin maybe look up??? hmmm what would I use for a look up??? anyone got a recommendation re how to look it up?)
(hmm also thinkin I was gonna just ignore the episode, as I thought it was pretty strange/wierd/silly but ,,, hmm was it Kermit that started that conversation with a post???? hmmmmmmm)
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
best
pursefight
evar.
well, no, it's not , but it's been amusing.
:D
:aok
:noid
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
Deadmanflying: you gunna take that shot even in co-alt, co-E, same plane 1 on 1 fight?
If it's a duel, absolutely not. If it's just some plane out there, and I have no idea who it is, and the threat of other enemies jumping in seems possible, or if it's someone who I know will whine about being HOed for hours on end, then I'll take the shot if I have it.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Geeeez Wrag and Kermit, are you two fighting about something from THAT far back?
Some of the things y'all arguin' about are like 1-2years old.
LOL
(for the record, I do consider Kermit an AH Friend. You know, if they were driving through my town I would meet 'em for a beer, but prob. wouldn't let 'em sleep on my couch I vaguely remember what these two are fighting about, but dang it the idiots, it was like forever ago. Kiss and make up already!)
(edit: if no alt was pre-given, which I bet was the case, shame on you Froggie. Granted, if it was ME in the 109k, I woulda stall fought y'er tiffy and tater'd y'er tail off. And this fight you two are talking about BETTER have happend recently. If you makin' chime in on a subject from a couple years ago I am gonna smack the both of you in the back of the head next time I see you)
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
If it's a duel, absolutely not. If it's just some plane out there, and I have no idea who it is, and the threat of other enemies jumping in seems possible, or if it's someone who I know will whine about being HOed for hours on end, then I'll take the shot if I have it.
-- Todd/Leviathn
lol
you dweeb
just by the rare chance you may be considering this thread a HO whine, its not. as hubs said, its the best purse fight thread in a few months. i think you're jealous :cry
:D
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can't we just play the game and have fun? This is one of the reasons i have Ch 200 turned off.
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at least we agree on one point john.
but dont go pretending this topic wasnt fun, if it wasnt why did so many people keep coming back >
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
at least we agree on one point john.
:lol :aok
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Originally posted by john9001
can't we just play the game and have fun? This is one of the reasons i have Ch 200 turned off.
Bro, if your not having fun reading this stuff, then just don't read it! I think much of it is hilarious! :aok
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From memory, an altitude was given.
The point of the fight wrag, was to have some fun. There were no fights that night so I asked if anyone wanted to fight. You said that you'd like to. Had I known you were going to just get high at the start of the fight with a merge with you diving at me and then zooming back up, I would not have agreed to this thing. You lost your E a few times during the fights but just dove away, leveled off and then climbed again after extending a few k, maybe 2 or 3k. A few times I remember turning away from you and about to ask someone else on ch200 if they wanted to fight.
You did energy fight me, bnz me, but you also ran away by diving, leveling off and then climbing. All of which are good tactics. I was just hoping for a fun fight that we could both enjoy for awhile. But all you cared about was not dying. You did volunteer to fight me. In reality, all you wanted was an offline drone you could bnz. A squaddie was in the area during the third fight, and I said to him, hey, climb really high and stay outta icon range. If wrag runs away again, cut him off. Of course, you did not know that. Yes, this happened a long time ago. Your nature hasn't changed and so your comment earlier in this thread made me think of this event.
Close friends? I think I remember it being that I fought the WM's and had fun many times back then, but I ain't close friends in real life, you are just confused which happens through the internet many times.
I had come to the conclusion that the first fight was just a misunderstanding.I'm sick of people thinking that the other guy is trying to make him fight his way. Wrag, all you had to do was say hey, I'm going to come in high on the merge and run away if I have to to keep my E. I would have told you, no thanks, I'll find a fight like that by myself else where. Me dying was due to boredem and typing on ch200 :) Remember, I did not run away, ho, stick stir or whatever other tactics that ruin the gameplay for others. I still gave you a fun fight despite your actions. I understand that that is the way you choose to play. And the very last thing you did was run to your ack when my squddie in a spit with more E than you, was chasing you while I was rtb. I only said I was going to record it and show it to your squddies because I was hoping that would affect you in a good way. I'm saying all this so that everyone reading this can have a clear picture of what happened and understand your "pointless gameplay" opinions. You chose to make this specific event public on the bbs.
edited for spelling.
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
From memory, an altitude was given.
The point of the fight wrag, was to have some fun. There were no fights that night so I asked if anyone wanted to fight. You said that you'd like to. Had I known you were going to just get high at the start of the fight with a merge with you diving at me and then zooming back up, I would not have agreed to this thing. You lost your E a few times during the fights but just dove away, leveled off and then climbed again after extending a few k, maybe 2 or 3k. A few times I remember turning away from you and about to ask someone else on ch200 if they wanted to fight.
You did energy fight me, bnz me, but you also ran away by diving, leveling off and then climbing. All of which are good tactics. I was just hoping for a fun fight that we could both enjoy for awhile. But all you cared about was not dying. You did volunteer to fight me. In reality, all you wanted was an offline drone you could bnz. A squaddie was in the area during the third fight, and I said to him, hey, climb really high and stay outta icon range. If wrag runs away again, cut him off. Of course, you did not know that. Yes, this happened a long time ago. Your nature hasn't changed and so your comment earlier in this thread made me think of this event.
Close friends? I think I remember it being that I fought the WM's and had fun many times back then, but I ain't close friends in real life, you are just confused which happens through the internet many times.
I had come to the conclusion that the first fight was just a misunderstanding.I'm sick of people thinking that the other guy is trying to make him fight his way. Wrag, all you had to do was say hey, I'm going to come in high on the merge and run away if I have to to keep my E. I would have told you, no thanks, I'll find a fight like that by myself else where. Me dying was due to boredem and typing on ch200 :) Remember, I did not run away, ho, stick stir or whatever other tactics that ruin the gameplay for others. I still gave you a fun fight despite your actions. I understand that that is the way you choose to play. And the very last thing you did was run to your ack when my squddie in a spit with more E than you, was chasing you while I was rtb. I only said I was going to record it and show it to your squddies because I was hoping that would affect you in a good way. I saying all this so that everyone reading this can have a clear picture of what happened and understand your "pointless gameplay" opinions. You chose to make this specific event public on the bbs.
NO nothing was said about alt, plane, speed, etc..... I did make it clear I was coming in with alt. Every time!
The just dove away part doesn't make sense to me. A typhie can dive with a K4. I usually don't dive out of any fight i'm in if i'm in a 109. As I consider it suicide to do that in a 109. Ask my squadies, I've told em repeatedly don't dive out of a fight ina 109.
Run to my ACK??????? LOL I don't think so! I climbed out. Your friend jumped me. I manuvered in on him but missed, (stupid 30mm). Lost too much E in the manuver and stalled. Your friend shot me down. Wasn't close to any friendly base as I recall.
Thinkin Kermit ASSUMED many things! Only thing I remember being spoken of was havin a fight. No rules were stated. Still got the PM's about it all. So it wasn't a thread. Also thinkin Kermit maybe doesn't remember the same things I remember. Was over a year ago.
Close friends? Did I use those words? Did I say close?
Lute.............. I tried to drop the matter. I got several PM's from Kermit regarding the matter back when it happened.
Kermit is the one that brought the matter up. Far as I was concerned we basically agreed to disagree. Kermit then brings it up in this thread. I reply to his comment with what I see, and saw, as the truth. Then Kermit proceeded to call me a liar and an ediot.
You call that kiss and make up?
I've said nothing further about it all this time. Didn't intend on even bringing it up.
Kermit, why did you feel it necassary to use the liar and idiot frazes?
You got a problem with this whole thing that you have been unable to let go of?
Have you looked at what you just posted? You are basically saying you didn't get the fight you wanted so you called in a friend. I told you several times I was coming in high alt. Told you over and over. I even told you I was attacking you before I made my very 1st pass. I never thought to ask you, were you drinking or something duiring that particular event?
Recording it to HELP me?????? :rofl That is NOT what I recall you saying. I do recall you made your comments BEFORE we started fighting the 1st fight.
It would not have come up if you had NOT found it necassary to comment on my post in this thread. It is/was your comment that brought it all out.
Thought we settled the matter in private. Still have the PM's. Did you keep my replies?
AND!!!! All you had to say at any given time was, that you didn't want to fight any longer. This could have been said pretty much at any time during our fights. I would have pulled off and left the area. I would have done so because it was a requested fight. If it had been a typical MA fight nope would have fought it out, and would have been expecting your friend as well. But it wasn't and didn't think you would call in a friend.
So here is my take on the entire thing. A fight was agreed upon. NO engagement rules were specified. We talked on 200 pretty much the entire time, and I did tell you what I was doing RE alt etc. We fought. After 2 fights your friend came into the area. You informed me you were unhappy with the WAY I was fighting you and your friend was going to shoot me if I continued fighting you the way I was fighing you. I broke off and climbed out. Your friend jumped me. I engaged but stalled out. Your friend shot me down.
Did you ASSUME that specific rules some how applied when none were stated?
Kermit YOU have stated in your post that BECAUSE I did not fight you in the WAY you wanted me to, YOU called in a friend!
THERE IT IS!
And Lute....... how long have you known me? How long have we flown together? Do you REALLY think I would have done what I'm accused of here? Have you ever seen me do such?
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Originally posted by wrag
NO nothing was said about alt, plane, speed, etc..... I did make it clear I was coming in with alt. Every time!
The just dove away part doesn't make sense to me. A typhie can dive with a K4. I usually don't dive out of any fight i'm in if i'm in a 109. As I consider it suicide to do that in a 109. Ask my squadies, I've told em repeatedly don't dive out of a fight ina 109.
Run to my ACK??????? LOL I don't think so! I climbed out. Your friend jumped me. I manuvered in on him but missed, (stupid 30mm). Lost too much E in the manuver and stalled. Your friend shot me down. Wasn't close to any friendly base as I recall.
Thinkin Kermit ASSUMED many things! Only thing I remember being spoken of was havin a fight. No rules were stated. Still got the PM's about it all. So it wasn't a thread. Also thinkin Kermit maybe doesn't remember the same things I remember. Was over a year ago.
Close friends? Did I use those words? Did I say close?
Lute.............. I tried to drop the matter. I got several PM's from Kermit regarding the matter back when it happened.
Kermit is the one that brought the matter up. Far as I was concerned we basically agreed to disagree. Kermit then brings it up in this thread. I reply to his comment with what I see, and saw, as the truth. Then Kermit proceeded to call me a liar and an ediot.
You call that kiss and make up?
I've said nothing further about it all this time. Didn't intend on even bringing it up.
Kermit, why did you feel it necassary to use the liar and idiot frazes?
You got a problem with this whole thing that you have been unable to let go of?
Have you looked at what you just posted? You are basically saying you didn't get the fight you wanted so you called in a friend. I told you several times I was coming in high alt. Told you over and over. I even told you I was attacking you before I made my very 1st pass. I never thought to ask you, were you drinking or something duiring that particular event?
Recording it to HELP me?????? :rofl That is NOT what I recall you saying. I do recall you made your comments BEFORE we started fighting the 1st fight.
It would not have come up if you had NOT found it necassary to comment on my post in this thread. It is/was your comment that brought it all out.
Thought we settled the matter in private. Still have the PM's. Did you keep my replies?
AND!!!! All you had to say at any given time was, that you didn't want to fight any longer. This could have been said pretty much at any time during our fights. I would have pulled off and left the area. I would have done so because it was a requested fight. If it had been a typical MA fight nope would have fought it out, and would have been expecting your friend as well. But it wasn't and didn't think you would call in a friend.
So here is my take on the entire thing. A fight was agreed upon. NO engagement rules were specified. We talked on 200 pretty much the entire time, and I did tell you what I was doing RE alt etc. We fought. After 2 fights your friend came into the area. You informed me you were unhappy with the WAY I was fighting you and your friend was going to shoot me if I continued fighting you the way I was fighing you. I broke off and climbed out. Your friend jumped me. I engaged but stalled out. Your friend shot me down.
Did you ASSUME that specific rules some how applied when none were stated?
Kermit YOU have stated in your post that BECAUSE I did not fight you in the WAY you wanted me to, YOU called in a friend!
THERE IT IS!
And Lute....... how long have you known me? How long have we flown together? Do you REALLY think I would have done what I'm accused of here? Have you ever seen me do such?
I wouldn't even agree to fight unless an alt was given. Why not just agree to let one guy work on his BnZ and the other work on his reversals! :rofl
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OK...........
If Rules or requirments are put forth and IF I agree to those rules or requirments I WILL ADHERE to those rules or requirments so long as the other or others do the same.
Lute KNOWS this. Several others KNOW this.
That is all there is to it!
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saw elfy in the ma tonight and he apprached me on the subject appologising for it and i appologising for making a silly thread about it.
alls well that ends well, im glad we could talk it over without any personal involvement, S! elfy.
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I never do see why people get so upset by being Ho'd. An a/c like a 1c can live by em almost exclusively. Perhaps what you term as his turning into you at the last possible second was merely creating some separation so that when he blew you away he wouldn't get any oil on his shiny paint job ;) The HO is an entirely legitimate tactic, it just gets a bad name from folks who don't know how to use it properly and often end up ramming people due to their target fixation. Easiest way to avoid "dweebery" and vulching and gaming etc... is to live by a motto such as "no quarter given nor asked", expect nothing for free and don't give any. The "knights of the sky" honor code is fine among friends but if he's some anonymous con coming at ya, blow him away at the first chance ya get and go look for another target...er con
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Originally posted by Badair
I never do see why people get so upset by being Ho'd.
IMO...it's a sense of chivalry...not one like in a war where the other guys is really trying to kill you (those are some misplaced sentiments if you ask me)...but more borne out of the simple fact that this is a game...but much like real war...chivalry is dead in the MA...has been for many many years....always expect the HO!
However, when you see a guy bypass his shot and break early you know you're in for a good fight, but usually you can see them boring in for the HO from 6K out...these you simply dodge-reverse-kill (assuming they don't dive for the ack or their crowd).
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Comon guys. It is not that complicated. No knights of the sky and no chivalry. Can't you see it? We all PAY to PLAY. To fly for 10 minutes only to have the PLAY end in 1 second is a waste of time. No mater who won. It is a waste of time for both. If this happens 3 times in a row, win or lose, you wasted 30 minutes of your time for nothing.
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Originally posted by BugsBunny
Comon guys. It is not that complicated. No knights of the sky and no chivalry. Can't you see it? We all PAY to PLAY. To fly for 10 minutes only to have the PLAY end in 1 second is a waste of time. No mater who won. It is a waste of time for both. If this happens 3 times in a row, win or lose, you wasted 30 minutes of your time for nothing.
IT's as simple as this post! I concurr whole heartedly! Just a waste of time for no enjoyment and definitely no fight! Imagine how stories would go if everyone HOd........."Well, there I was, flying at about 7 k when this guy made a bee line for me. So I made a bee line for him. It was awesome! My bullets hit him in the face before his bullets hit me in the face! You should have beeen there! I was on the edge of my seat wondering who's bullets would hit who in the face first! After I fired, I was just about to start diving out and running to the deck when I noticed my bullets had hit him in the face first! Awesome! I own that dweeb!" :rolleyes: :rofl
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........."Well, there I was, flying at about 7 k when this guy made a bee line for me. So I made a bee line for him. It was awesome! My bullets hit him in the face before his bullets hit me in the face! You should have beeen there! I was on the edge of my seat wondering who's bullets would hit who in the face first! After I fired, I was just about to start diving out and running to the deck when I noticed my bullets had hit him in the face first! Awesome! I own that dweeb!"
:rofl :rofl
That was great man.:D
I'm soo glad there are people in this game that enjoy a good 1v1 still. If all there was were HO tards out there then I would have quit a long time ago. If all you do is drive your cartoon plane around and HO the crap out of everything you see then what is the point of even playing?? I like to see how my "virtual skills" improve from month to month. Anyone can "fly" around and brainlessly pull the trigger at anything that gets in their sights
but whats the point?? However, there are times that the HO is called for IMO...like when your out numbered 5 to 1 and are a dead man anyway or if your in a situation where your leaking oil, radiator busted or your on fire then I'll HO with the best of em. If it gets to the point where I'm killing everyone i tangle with (which...i might add is veeery far off) then i will quit. But until then I will continue to look for the best "flyers" in the game to see how I measure up. IMO HOing, driving la7's, or spits is like playing "madden 07" and leaving it on easy mode and winning every game 217-0 and playing it for hours on end every night. At some point I think you would want to maybe kick it up a notch and move up to the next level.
When you HO on the first pass then the GAME is over before it even starts.
The most enjoyment i get out of this game is when I tangle with someone for ten minutes or so and when your done you are almost sweating. Even if i loose that "fight" it's still fun as hell and the whole reason i play anymore.
That's my take (right or wrong)
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hey bucky, you got it right there bro :)
remember about 5-6 months back we met you in hurricane me in spit5? i seem to remember getting a lucky angle on you a couple of times and winning. your answer wasnt to go and get a tempest and BnZ me or an La7 and chase me down to HO me, instead you came back in the hurri and right away learnt what angle i was exploiting, and shot me down the next few fights.
that was great fun, and it wasnt even a DA fight, just in the middle of a small even numbers furball and no ho'ing. I bet it felt 10 times better to win the third fight with a better merge and better manouvers than it would have to come back and shoot me down 10 times in a cherry pick or ho?
i remember thinking 'that bucky is gunna be too much to handle pretty soon if he keeps learning from mistakes this fast!"
S!
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Well said Bucky, and I presume that's why you fly the really difficult and challenging planes like the C hurri, P51, and tempest. Who needs speed, armament, or maneuverability when you're an invincible, extremely skilled and chivalrous cartoon knight of the sky?
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Thanks Bat
....unfortunately i'm a slow learner.:rofl
And Hub..........not bitin, take ur ignorance elsewhere:D
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you dont have a clue how bucky flies hub, probably because you ho'ed him in your 'extremely skilled to fly' 110G that you so love taking into furballs before he had a chance to show your some 1 on 1 acms.
and for the record, i find hurricanes an easy kill in most rides unlesss the pilot knows his stuff abit more than the average.
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Well bat, that wasn't a furball, that was a bunch of you tits vulching our field, but if you want to fly directly at me in a 110, and I can shoot you, I will. I don't feel the least bit of regret, nor pity for you. Unlike many of you guys, I don't claim to be good, and when I kill someone, it's not due to my finely honed cartoon skills, but rather to their stupid mistakes. That's true in this case as well.
And yes, I do know how bucky flies, having fought him on numerous occasions. He's not a bad cartoon pilot at all, but let's put down the purses and be honest; we all know exactly why he flies those planes (why we all fly those planes), and there's no shame in that at all. However, all this **** about EZ mode planes and how everyone else who flies a decent plane sucks is laughable, especially coming from spit and hurri pilots.
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I ho cuz i have no skill :D
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Ok maybe a nibble:D
OK maybe i could have put that a little different...YES i do fly hurri's but only in base defense instances where a carrier pops up off shore or the field is capped. I NEVER up one from a field that isn't in immediate danger. I also fly the pony alot and in a perfect MA (IMO of course) you wouldn't have any of these morons that do nothing but spray and pray at anything they see. Unfortunately that's not the case so the pony gives me the ability to avoid most of these types. I would also wager that I would beat pretty much anyone 1v1 if i was in a spit and they were in a pony co-alt and if the tables were turned i would win alot less. So if your implying that i fly the pony just for the "kill" then your wrong. I'm not the kind that likes a pointless furball where everywhere you turn there is a target and your biggest problem is beating one of your own countrymen to the kill. And if your suggesting that all I do is bnz then apparently you haven't been around me much. I'm not saying i'm perfect and never do any of these things but i'm definately not afraid to mix it up in a turn fight at low alt. As a matter of fact i would bet 90% of my kills come under 4k AGL and under 300knots.
ALSO...I'm not real sure where your getting the idea that I said spit and la drivers suck:confused:
I never said that......
But I've been married 12 years so I know all about arguments that get started over something that never happened.
:D
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Well bat, that wasn't a furball, that was a bunch of you tits vulching our field, but if you want to fly directly at me in a 110, and I can shoot you, I will. I don't feel the least bit of regret, nor pity for you. Unlike many of you guys, I don't claim to be good, and when I kill someone, it's not due to my finely honed cartoon skills, but rather to their stupid mistakes. That's true in this case as well.
And yes, I do know how bucky flies, having fought him on numerous occasions. He's not a bad cartoon pilot at all, but let's put down the purses and be honest; we all know exactly why he flies those planes (why we all fly those planes), and there's no shame in that at all. However, all this **** about EZ mode planes and how everyone else who flies a decent plane sucks is laughable, especially coming from spit and hurri pilots.
it like a hypocratic round about in that post hubs, we could discuss it for hours and never be anywhere but where you just started.
but why you want to mock bucky because of a plane he flies?
shane flew the la7 as good as anyone possibly could. he was certainly not a lamer when it came to dogfighting style.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
ALSO...I'm not real sure where your getting the idea that I said spit and la drivers suck:confused:
I never said that......
But I've been married 12 years so I know all about arguments that get started over something that never happened.
:D
"IMO HOing, driving la7's, or spits is like playing "madden 07" and leaving it on easy mode and winning every game 217-0 and playing it for hours on end every night."
Not an outright statement ... but implied.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
shane flew the la7 as good as anyone possibly could. he was certainly not a lamer when it came to dogfighting style.
Shane is a bad example ... Shane could pwn in just about any plane he would fly ... he flew the La-7 just to make people cry and whine ... not because he needed it.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
it like a hypocratic round about in that post hubs, we could discuss it for hours and never be anywhere but where you just started.
Isn't that what this whole thread has boiled down to ?
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So.....flyin ez planes and being a crappy "virtual pilot" go together?
mmmmmk:confused: :huh :O
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Originally posted by Bucky73
So.....flyin ez planes and being a crappy "virtual pilot" go together?
mmmmmk:confused: :huh :O
Nope ... planes are a constant ... it's the pilot that makes the plane and the fight.
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ok i'm convinced one of you is my wife just tryin to start an arguement. I'll get the x-mas light's hung just get off my *** and quit posting honey or i'm gonna get rid of your computer.:furious
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Bucky and slap don't make for good purse fightin, both a lil too nice, specially bucky. We need more uses of the word twit, dweeb, idiot, and lamer or it just isn't as enjoyable to read! Wrag and Kermit had a good one going, Bat and a brickwall are usually a good argument, AKAK and non-outer space pilots usually get going good, and the bk's and bop's usually get it going good too! Where has all the antagonism gone in the world today! :aok
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Sky...didn't ask for ur opinion u twit. so STFU and go look at porn and stay off the grown ups posting area. Freakin dweebs ruining our boards. Try to have a discussion about something and some idiot lamer ruins it.:furious
Any better?:D
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I'm not mocking bucky (well, no more than I mock anyone else) because he flies those planes (I fly those planes as well, for the same reasons anyone flies them); I just found his remark somewhat ironic, and thought I would comment.
It's just amusing to hear people whine about EZ mode planes this, and you suck because you took that shot, blah blah when everyone is doing the same thing, flying those same planes. Give it a rest, really. Not everyone is trying to be "teh best cartoon pilot evar", and a lot probably don't give a **** what you think. Coming on here and trashing someone just because they don't fight the way you wanted them to is pathetic. I know you wanted people to bolster your position on how fights are supposed to play out, and some have, and you've had a field day with it, but in the end, it's just rather stupid.
And bucky, go put those ****ing lights up already!
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Sky...didn't ask for ur opinion u twit. so STFU and go look at porn and stay off the grown ups posting area. Freakin dweebs ruining our boards. Try to have a discussion about something and some idiot lamer ruins it.:furious
Any better?:D
Ahhhhhhhhhh! Much better! :)
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I'm not mocking bucky (well, no more than I mock anyone else) because he flies those planes (I fly those planes as well, for the same reasons anyone flies them); I just found his remark somewhat ironic, and thought I would comment.
It's just amusing to hear people whine about EZ mode planes this, and you suck because you took that shot, blah blah when everyone is doing the same thing, flying those same planes. Give it a rest, really. Not everyone is trying to be "teh best cartoon pilot evar", and a lot probably don't give a **** what you think. Coming on here and trashing someone just because they don't fight the way you wanted them to is pathetic. I know you wanted people to bolster your position on how fights are supposed to play out, and some have, and you've had a field day with it, but in the end, it's just rather stupid.
And bucky, go put those ****ing lights up already!
Lamer!:aok
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Originally posted by SlapShot
"IMO HOing, driving la7's, or spits is like playing "madden 07" and leaving it on easy mode and winning every game 217-0 and playing it for hours on end every night."
LMAO this is so true!!! :rofl
-Sigged!!
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Isn't that what this whole thread has boiled down to ?
not at all, there are still more than 2 or 3 perfectly good 2 or 3 sided arguments going on here, thats mostly discusion not hypocracy.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Bucky and slap don't make for good purse fightin, both a lil too nice, specially bucky. We need more uses of the word twit, dweeb, idiot, and lamer or it just isn't as enjoyable to read! Wrag and Kermit had a good one going, Bat and a brickwall are usually a good argument, AKAK and non-outer space pilots usually get going good, and the bk's and bop's usually get it going good too! Where has all the antagonism gone in the world today! :aok
So for an example of an idiot's post, we just have to search this BBS for any post from you?
ack-ack
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At least you used good fightin words! I own you in a p-38! I doubt u'll duel me though! And I require the duel to be under 37,000 ft., and no HO's! Wait, you did beat me three and a half years ago though! So I guess u still live in the glory days. If you want to get completely owned and shown how to fly the twin engined monster, let me know! :aok :rofl