Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Halo on November 30, 2006, 10:50:47 PM
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This being the season of the winter solstice and derivative holidays, it's a good time to ask Do you believe in angels?
Or, in the same vein, Have you ever had help from The Beyond?
I think I have, several times. Perhaps the first time that dawned on me was long ago when visiting family in Southern Indiana. We were always punctual in leaving and arriving on planned times.
But this one morning, we kept having delay after delay, and got on the road home about 30 minutes late. About an hour later, as we came upon a narrow two-lane bridge, we found it blocked by a jackknifed truck with its cargo strewn across the bridge.
The accident happened about the time we would normally have been crossing the bridge head-on to that truck.
Coincidence perhaps. But I've always considered it a gift from The Beyond.
Anything similar like that ever happen in your life?
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I believe in fate.
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I do, and these were a good read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Trilogy
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I'm not a huge fan of science fiction, simply because anyone can make up anything.
This thread is more about actual experiences that might lead someone to believe in angels or other help from beyond.
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While I do like some sci-fi, CS Lewis' sci-fi is more allegorical than pure sci-fi. Beliveing in the Christian God as I do, belief in angels is a given.
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i still cant believe they won the world series, soon it'll be the rangers or some other terminal lamerz (zOMG teh cubs:O :O :eek: :eek: :mad: :mad: )
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Yes I believe they exist, but I don't think about them much. There are many things we don't know about and may never find out concerning angels. Doesn't mean they're not there. I don't know what The Bible says about angels. This is a job for Seagoon.
Les
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No, but pink elephants on the other hand ... :D
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Well...I've had a guardian angel a couple times. Seems they do their best work when I'm drunk.
Les
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No i dont.
Although i put off going into London the day the tube bombings occured on 7th July, reasonable chance i would have been on the train going along the picadilly line out of kings cross if i hadn't.
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not sure but things always seem to happen just when they are needed,
latest one happened this weekend in fact:
i had just moved into a new Flat, on the river side, balcony in my bedroom and the lounge over the river, can watch the ducks with a cup of tea in the morning, is really nice.
Unfortunately after moving in I realised that maybe I'd been a bit rash in accepting it as i really didn't have the money to afford it but it was sooo beautiful, i thought i'd find a way, somehow, but the math just wasn't adding up.
So i go back to work this week after the weekend move all stressed out and i get called to see the Managing Director.
and he gives me a 30% pay rise there on the spot, I just sat there trying not to grin.
either someone looking out for me or just very very lucky
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Odd things happen, and sometimes are too odd for a logical explanation.
But if there are angels, what about ghosts?
BTW, what's the name of that game with the alphabet and a glass (ask the gost)???
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The Ouiji board?
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Ah, found it, Ouiija Board.
http://ghosts.monstrous.com/the_ouija_board.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouija
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Ouija board. It was sold as a game but is serious business. I would stay as far away as I could from a ouija board. Just don't play around with it, or even be there when it's in use. That's exactly what they do, call up ghosts. I know it sounds silly, but better safe than sorry.
Les
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Wijis of Mass Destruction
:noid
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Also referred to as a Witchboard. Maybe you can find your guardian angel there :D
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Originally posted by Leslie
Ouija board. It was sold as a game but is serious business. I would stay as far away as I could from a ouija board. Just don't play around with it, or even be there when it's in use. That's exactly what they do, call up ghosts. I know it sounds silly, but better safe than sorry.
Les
Had my share of the stuff without ever being close to one ;)
A friend of mine had been into this when younger. It seemed to work, and scared the crap out of him. He won't ever do it again.
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About the limit of my experience was Kresken's ESP at the age of 5. That one used a pendulum that you held that swung over a board...perhaps a novelty item. Never have seen a Ouija board except in haunted house movies.:)
Les
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FAQ's answered:
http://www.museumoftalkingboards.com/Witchboard.html
Online Ouija in German:
http://www.lilith-kartenlegen.de/witchboard/indexie.htm
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The missus and her twin used to look like angels, so I used to belive in them. Now im not so sure anymore. It has to be awfully dark and the angle would have to be just right.
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The fact that I am still alive is all the proof I need.
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Despite the fact that I am often critical of Christianity and religion in general, and despite the fact that I certainly do not take the Bible literally, I definately believe in angels.
Of course, I believe these angels are the people I loved who have died, and I truly think that they've come to save me and my friends on numerous occassions...
This is going to sound corny or fake as hell, but when I was 16 I lost a good friend unexpectedly. For a few weeks before he died, he often talked of death and what he'd do to show us if anything was "there" afterward. One thing he promised to do was to turn on this one particular lamp in my other friend's house.
Now this was kind of a big deal, because I'd known that friend for a number of years, and I'd known that lamp for just as long - the damn thing never, ever worked. You could change the lightbulb, change the socket, do whatever you wanted, it wouldn't turn on. Why the hell he decided to keep it, I have no idea, but he did.
Well, wouldn't you know it, the very same night my friend died we were all sitting in the other friend's room, faces towards the floor, and what happens? That light flickers on. And the lamp has worked ever since.
Can I prove my friend turned that on? No. It could have been some strange coincidence. But, for me, the timing and the result are all the proof I need.
(Course, I've got plenty of other signs over the years. You wouldn't believe the ways I or my other friends have been saved from death or deep, deep trouble by the most random occurances).
So, yeah, anyway, I don't believe in the Bible but I definately believe my buddies and family are still around waiting for me.
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no
but i guess it'd be nice to ensure my lamps all work.
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Originally posted by Booz
no
but i guess it'd be nice to ensure my lamps all work.
You're an bellybutton :D
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I don't believe in angels. But I do believe in ghosts as a concept. What a ghost actually is, I don't know but I believe one day a scientific explanation could be found.
On the point of angels, warning us. I think we underestimate our own instinctive and intuitive abilities and a certain psychic ability to forsee danger. It's well known that dogs can sense things we can't. That's because dogs have a better sense of smell and hearing. In all probability we too have subconscious abilities we are not fully aware of. We've all had 'a bad feeling about this' or anticipate danger when nothing is obvious. I personally have had many experiences like that. I suspect it's a form of survival instinct.
A lot of this could be investigated scientifically but I suspect that a scientist would be put off by the whole hocus pocus aspect of all this. Scientists would probably feel (instinctively and intuitively:rofl ) that they would lose credibility with their peers if they ventured into this realm of spooks and goblins.
But maybe there are angels. If so my guardian angel has been far too effective. I have led a charmed and it has to be said boring life until now. That is in spite of living in a country which suffered 30 years of terrorism, been a soldier, a pilot, a motorcyclist, travelled to exotic places and did one or two other slightly risque:t things in my life. Despite all this I have ended up spending too much time sitting in front of the telly with a cup of tea in my hand.;) My fate is to be boring!
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it's in the middle of november I'm asleep on the couch in the family room in the middle of the day, my wife is in our home office doing some paper work. just outside of the family room there is a door that leads to a hallway. the hallway leads back to rest of the house or to the garage. the door to the garage is a steel door mounted on a steel frame. it's a heavy door.
anyways I'm sound asleep enjoying an afternon nap. WHAM!!!! the sound brings me to my feet with my heart pounding. I'm thinking she's pissed because I'm napping so she slammed the door to the garage. about that same time she comes running down the long hallway with a miffed wtf look on her face.
I tell her to sit still in the family room and give her the shotgun, I draw my .357 and head for the garage, no one there. hmmm. we check all of the locks and all of the doors leading to the outside of the house are locked.
fast forward about one year.
I'm sitting on the same couch. it's about 0200 and I'm watching TV. out of the corner of my left eye I detect movement towards the garage on the same hallway. WHAM!!! I jump to my feet go into the garage ready to dress down the offender, there is no one in the garage. the family is all asleep in their rooms.
fast forward to last week.
I get a random call from a familiarly named man. he's having problems with a residential gate operator. as we converse it turns out he's a guy I went to high school with and knew but weren't really friends. instead of sending out one of my techs to see about his problem I go myself. I diagnose and repair his operator. being late in the day he offers me a beer. we sit out on his back porch chatting about this and that, he asks where I live so I tell him. he grew up in this community and asks me for my address so I tell him. his highschool sweetheart used to live in the house we currently own. she had a brother which I remember, the guy was creepy, sullen and a very unsympathetic person. a few years after highschool the brother took his life in what is now our family room.
I wish someone had gotten that creep laid. now he's probably still here slamming doors in my home.
If I could go back in time I'd kick his ass. :D
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Now that right there, Storch, freaks me out hahaha...
:)
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Originally posted by Halo
Do you Believe in Angels?
Yes.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/22_1164979272_daboyz.jpg)
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Storch, have you thought that maybe the guy was gay and couldn't live with it. Now he is trying to communicate with you (WHAM -> George Michael...) because he probably likes you....
If I was you, I wouldn't pick up the soap (or anything else) EVER again in this house...
Keep us posted.
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Do you Believe in Angels?
Of course I believe! I Believe in Jesus too ... It does kinda piss me off when they start the leaf blower while I'm trying to sleep in on Sat morning ... But the lawn always looks terrific ... and so does Angel's sister.
:D:D:D
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Originally posted by deSelys
Storch, have you thought that maybe the guy was gay and couldn't live with it. Now he is trying to communicate with you (WHAM -> George Michael...) because he probably likes you....
If I was you, I wouldn't pick up the soap (or anything else) EVER again in this house...
Keep us posted.
honestly, no that hadn't occurred to me even though I can see where a guy who's been dead for 30 years would be attracted to a fat 50 year old hairy assed guy. and no I won't get my bellybutton waxed for a ghost to test your theory.
:D
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(quote) Of course, I believe these angels are the people I loved who have died, and I truly think that they've come to save me and my friends on numerous occasions... (unquote)
Yes, Vudak, I tend to think the same way about angels. Ties in with continuum of spirits and souls and energy not dying and that sort of thing. Much easier to live considering the glass half full instead of half empty.
Another personal example, and this is embarrassing, but might be useful to someone else sometime, so thought I'd better share it.
I was mired in a deadend job and not providing for my family the way I should have been able to. I was really getting down on myself. I had been to various job interviews but nothing was working out.
I just couldn't seen to solve the problem on my own.
Then one day I see my phone message recorder blinking. I listened. The head of an organization himself was on the line giving me a long spiel about his group. He said he had talked to so-and-so about me and thought I was perfect for a job he had.
He outlined the job in detail and then, wonder of wonders, offered me the job right off, and with a high salary without all the usual bs negotiation. He had tried to reach me at a previous job, and they had written his call down on a routine message pad and left it for the next time when I came to do some on-call work, which was not often.
He thought I was evading him by not returning his call. So after several days he got my home phone number. His call was a gift from the gods, the angels, my parents or other dearly beloved departed, or whatever. They said, "Look, Dumdum is struggling, he isn't getting anywhere, throw him this bone."
That job helped me complete getting the kids launched on their own lives and careers. It was basically walk across the street every two weeks and deposit the check in the bank for tuition. I was able to help the second kid finance his degree and I did it four years until the third and last kid finished college.
Then it was time to move on again -- strange how jobs seem the most interesting the first four years, just like high school or college. But the kids were out of college and I was finally free from the major financial burdens of raising kids. I love them dearly, but wow, are kids expensive!
That job from the wild blue restored my confidence in myself, and left me humble, realizing indeed no man is an island. Tried to do it all myself and couldn't. Now I'm grateful to accept help from whatever the source.
Angels? You bet. I need and cherish mine.
P.S. No matter how tough things get, do NOT punish yourself too much or else your trusty reliable body, no matter how strong it may have seemed all your life, some day might just decide, "Okay, Stupid here is so ungrateful, I quit. Now try functioning when your body won't work, when you're afraid to go out of the house, when you can barely put one foot in front of the other."
It's called agoraphobia, abnormal fear of being in public or open spaces, but it's really loss of confidence in yourself. If you lose faith in yourself, everyone else will too. Don't do that. All animals shun losers. Don't act like a loser and you won't be.
End of sermon. Go forth and thrive.
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I am not sure if you call it angel, ghost or just loved one from beyond, but had an experience which made me believer.
In the house I lived in at the time, we had a stove/oven that had one of those timers that you turn the dial and then buzz when time winds down. The maximum time that could be set on the thing was 60 minutes. In the 5 years we had lived in the house, I don't think we had ever used the buzzer one time.
One year on the anniversary of when my mother had died at 4:30 a.m. which is the time of day when she had died, I awoke to this buzzing noise. I went out to the kitchen to investigate, and that stove/oven buzzer was going off. Just weird coincidence? I think not.
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Storch, that was interesting. My family had that "thing" as well, and that means people in different corners of a house, fast asleep, and me, 250 miles away. Was really creepy. Slam-bam, everybody awake, and there is nothing. (well, doors could not be seen slamming, just heard)
In relation to that, some of us had the experience of somebody's precence, and being held stuck in bed while well awake. Now that is really nasty, and enough to scare the crap out of. You can look at the clock and roll your eyes, you feel that someone is there, and sometimes see a shadow, but not move at all.
I found out eventually, - start with a finger, and you break the spell.
Funny stuff, or me being completely mad, but I know more who had this.
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"When God needed to punish someone...he sent an angel.
Have you ever wondered what a creature like that must be like?
Your whole existence praising your God but always with one wing
dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?"
- The Prophecy
I know I don't!
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Originally posted by Angus
In relation to that, some of us had the experience of somebody's precence, and being held stuck in bed while well awake. Now that is really nasty, and enough to scare the crap out of. You can look at the clock and roll your eyes, you feel that someone is there, and sometimes see a shadow, but not move at all.
I found out eventually, - start with a finger, and you break the spell.
Funny stuff, or me being completely mad, but I know more who had this.
Read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis)
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That was fast, - and informative!
Somethings to add, - never happens properly with another person in the room! And you have full control on mind and hearing and eyes. That means inspecting everything in the room, checking the clock, etc. Heck, sometimes I even didn't realize I was frozen before I found out the hard way. But start with a finger and break the spell, funny isn't it.
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So there you see Angus, you're not possessed by demons. No worries, you're just INSANE!
:D
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BERSERK you mean :D
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Originally posted by Leslie
Ouija board. It was sold as a game but is serious business. I would stay as far away as I could from a ouija board. Just don't play around with it, or even be there when it's in use. That's exactly what they do, call up ghosts. I know it sounds silly, but better safe than sorry.
Les
Why? Theres nothing wrong with playing with a Ouija board.
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Originally posted by dmf
Why? Theres nothing wrong with playing with a Ouija board.
I've actually had a teary eyed girl make me promise on everything sacred to me that I would never, ever use a Ouija board.
Whether they really can summon spirits or whether they just mess with your head royally, they're bad news.
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I've never had any problem at all out of mine, except once it didn't work for a day or two, my friend said the spirits were mad at me LOL
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I think the bigger question is do you believe in active participation by God, Angels, etc in your life or not.
I've been wrestling with this bigtime since my two kids were killed in a car wreck 14 months ago.
To believe in an active participating God, means he chose to let my kids die, while if others are to be believed, he's intervened in their lives to protect them or their families.
I have a hard time with that. I can accept the notion of God, and I do believe i'll see my kids again, but I also have to believe that stuff happens. Two cars coming together at 60 MPH means people are going to die. It just happens, not as part of a plan or God deciding to kill my kids.
It leaves it on me to deal with it though. He gave me free will to choose and will be there in the end, but I don't believe he or his angels are doing anything active in my life. Again, to accept that means he chose to let my kids die, and I don't want anything to do with a God who would by choice let my kids die as part of some plan, and put us through all we've gone through the last 14 months to teach me something.
As Vudak mentions I do believe that those who have gone before us are around us always. My Grandfather, who outside of my father was the most honest and caring man I've ever known, had one of those near death experiences when he had his heart attack. Now this was a church going, God fearing man, and when he 'came back' from it, his perspective had changed. His comment was that the ministers had it wrong.
He said that those people who were part of your life are always there and he described it quite clearly. This isn't someone who would make it up. So I believe my kids, my Dad, my grandparents are with me 'in spirit'. It's not much comfort though, at least not so far since the kids died.
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Just to add to the above. 2 months prior to her death, my 15 year old daughter had been nearly killed in a 4 wheeler accident while at my mom's place up north.
That she survived was a 'miracle'. Her face was shattered yet she didn't lose her sight, even though a branch just missed her eyes. It was nip and tuck at the hospital as to whether she'd pull through.
Had things stopped there, I would probably have been a big believer in God intervening, as her surviving that accident was amazing.
But to have her killed 2 months later, having overcome all that, just doesn't fit with any sort of divine intervention.
I actually had someone suggest that God did the first accident to prepare us for the second. That seemed kinda sick to me.
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Originally posted by Halo
Much easier to live considering the glass half full instead of half empty.
The glass is half full of liquid, half full of air.
Natura abhorret a vacuo.
Next meaning-of-life question?! :D
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Anybody been abducted by aliens?
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Is this a joke thread like the "is this plane real" thread ?
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Guppy, it makes me sick to my stomach trying to imagine what you are going through.
Although your story reminded me of something that maybe will be of some comfort to you:
When I was a teen, my father had a colleague who had an adopted kid originating from Sri Lanka. When he was 12-13 years old, the kid got cancer. During one of the chemotherapy session, he reacted badly to the meds and flatlined during several minutes. The docs were able to revive him but the brain damage was severe and he was physically crippled for the rest of his life (he died ~10 years later). However, there was no mental damage and he was able to go to college until the cancer finally took him.
Anyway, he had a near-death experience whe he flatlined and he told his parents that his late grandfather (not his biological grandfather) and his late cousin (again, not biological) who he named came to meet him while he was floating above his body and told him that he had to come back. Now, as a teen, it is possible that he had previously heard or read about near-death experiences. However, no one in his family remembered having told him about a cousin who died a few days after birth... before he arrived in Belgium from Sri Lanka.
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I don't think you should blame God for either accident Guppy. I don't believe God kills anyone. From God's perspective passing from life to death is but a brief transition. Of course this often leaves behind those who suffer, sometimes greatly, for the loss. God can and will comfort the sorrow of those who turn to him. This I speak of from experience. As to angels, I think I may have seen one once but no way to be sure.
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I'm sure If you asked a baby in the womb if they wanted to be born the answer would be no. death is common to us all. losing a child is heart wrenching but it happens every single day we lost a child as an infant the pain will never ever go away but you deal with it. the statistics are around 60,000 of us will not wake up each and every tomorrow in the United States. my view of death is that it is a natural part of life, maybe even a welcomed part of life. look at it this way, what would the freeways look like if no one ever died??
:D
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Originally posted by Guppy35
I have a hard time with that. I can accept the notion of God, and I do believe i'll see my kids again, but I also have to believe that stuff happens.
Guppy, Im sorry to hear this, and deepest condolences. I cant say I know what your feeling, but I have some Idea. My house burnt to the ground on Christmas morning 2 years ago. All was lost, and most people would say how can God let that happen? But two years on, A lot of good has come out of it, that you wouldnt believe. Made me believe firmly in God and angels.
Storch-- You and I have never gotten on, but on this point I do understand how scary that kinda thing can be. Before my house burnt down, My mate was staying over (no jokes about this please sir) when we heard doors and drawers slamming in the kitchen. We went down and looked. Nothing. Happened again. Again nobody. A few eeks later, my mate stayed over again. Same thing happened. Again a few weeks later, mate over again. This time, after the doors (we stopped checking) we heard footsteps running in the gravel path outside my window. We checked instantly from my window. Nobody on the street, and my window can see all the way down the street, and up it. Scary. Another time, my mate and I were walking home, and I heard MY OWN GHOST! Sounds stupid but I swear on my life it was true! We hadnt been drinking at all. Storch i understand how scary it can be when things like that happen!
Thanks for hearing me out, and please dont doubt my story
EDIT-------- OK! Scary! I just finishe writing this, and had another spooky encounter. I took off my bracelet, and left it flat on my table. Now I just turned around after writing that post, and it was hanging off my water glass! THAT IS FREAKY!
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Guppy,
I was greatly saddened to read about your loss. As the father of two sons, I can state that my wife and I live in mortal dread of something happening to them.
I agree with your statement that sometimes things just happen. We are mortal beings and exist in a world that is subject to natural law. The flesh must, eventually, die.
However....
I believe the spirit lives on. There have been a number of incidents in my life that reinforce that belief. A couple have made my hair stand on end.
The first happened while I was in high school. A farm family in our church had three children; the youngest a boy of about five. One day, he rode with his mother to the field to follow the father home at the end of the day. His dad was driving a tractor and the boy wanted to ride it with him.
Nobody knows exactly what caused it, but the child fell off and was run over by the rear wheel. The distraught parents rushed him to the hospital, but there was no hope.
Two days later the child was buried in a small woodland cemetery. At the gravesite a young girl was snapping pictures of the proceedings with a camera and watching the pictures develop while holding them in her hand. On the first, the grave was in the foreground and mourners behind it. At the foot of the grave she noticed a ball of light...which was odd since the sun was behind the trees. She called it to the attention of the mother and the father.
In the second picture, the father can be seen looking at the first photograph while the mother looked over his shoulder. In this picture, the ball of light could be seen to have moved about halfway up the grave.
When the third picture was developed, the ball of light was gone, replaced by a smear of light, roughly in the shape of an x, at the head of the grave. Within the x could be seen two faces: one the face of a bearded man; resting on his left breast was the face of a child.
The work of an angel? Perhaps...but definitely a miracle.
A few years after my wife and I married, her brother and his wife lost a young child during heart surgery. A month after the funeral, we were visiting the parents when they suddenly asked us a very strange question: Did we believe in ghosts?
To say we were startled would be an understatement. According to them, on more than one occasion they had been lieing awake in bed at night and heard the baby playing with his toys in the living room.
Being caught off guard by the question, we didn't know how to respond, except to say we didn't really believe in ghosts.
A couple of days later, we were visiting with my grandmother. My grandfather had died the same year as this child. Anyway, we recounted the story of the baby and the toys to her to get her opinion.
Well sir, she got the strangest look on her face. Tears started in her widened eyes and her hand flew up to cover her mouth.
After a moment, she said that a similar thing had happened to her. My grandfather always made a habit of rising early on a cold morning and, if she was still asleep, of pulling the covers up over her to keep her warm. On the first cold morning after his death she said that she felt him pull the covers up over her as he had always done.
My grandmother and I spent a lot of time together in the summers when I was growing up. She had a strong part in raising me. A few years after this incident, she suffered a series of minor strokes that steadily robbed her of her memory. Over a period of two years her health steadily deteriorated. During this entire time she was staying in a nursing home.
One night, shortly after midnight the phone by our bedside rang, when I opened my eyes, I saw a hazy light at the head of the bed, on the other side of my wife, the direction my eyes were looking when I awakened. After a few seconds it slowly faded.
My wife answered the phone. It was my mother, calling to say that my grandmother had died.
I never could find an explanation for the light; not one that is rational, as the world defines rational. There was no way for a reflection to appear in that particular spot. I looked at the site from every possible angle and could not figure out a way that a light could have been reflected to that particular spot.
So...I have reason to believe. I believe in miracles....the kind sent by a loving God to give comfort in times of grief, or guidance in times of trial. I don't believe God desires that harm befall anyone....save in those rare instances when it serves some purpose benefitting mankind.
Regards, Shuckins
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I don't doubt what you are saying shuckins. I know my two kids have visited their mom. It's a warm feeling on her cheek. She can tell what kid it is when it happens. It happened often the first year, but now has slowed.
It's never happened to me. I wish it would. There is a group of parents who've lost kids that meet once a month and at least one of the two parents all say the same thing. in one form or another their lost kids have 'spoken' to them.
My uncle, who is a minister, tried to explain it to me. God had a choice, to be all loving or all controlling. He chose to be all loving. I can live with that. But I don't believe God is stepping in, now and then, to save some and let others die.
I know I'll see my kids again. But this experience has really changed how I see God's role in all this.
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In my mind it all boils down to this.
: God is not looking after every one of us.
: If there are angels, - are they not just welwilling ghosts of our beloved ones?
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Angels do not exist.
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Yes they do. It's just that they're invisible and they have magical powers so nobody knows about them. They're unseen helpers with life's many problems, like coping with reality for example.
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Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?
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Originally posted by Suave
Yes they do. It's just that they're invisible and they have magical powers so nobody knows about them. They're unseen helpers with life's many problems, like coping with reality for example.
Ah, but how many of them can dance on the head of a pin?
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The closest I can come to a pseudo scientific accommodation with all this is:
Life is essentially energy;
energy does not die.
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One of the interesting aspects of the "Eldila" in Lewis' books is that they exist in a realm wherein light is substantial as matter is to us. IIRC, it's been 30 years since I read those books.
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Yes, god or whoever has saved my butt a couple of times. I am a servant for life.
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Yes, god or whoever has saved my butt a couple of times. I am a servant for life.
you are a servant to whoever? maybe it was the devil that saved you.
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You know this song?
"The devil came down to Georgia
He was looking for a soul to steal".....
hehe :t
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The closest thing to a spiritual reality I've read, is John Barbour's "The end of time"; although I have to say it disappointed me when he suddenly started wrapping everything up together by a convenient deus ex machina, it's an altogether elegant theory.
http://www.platonia.com/ideas.html
The only other thing I'd mention is my godmother. She doesn't commercialize it, but by all accounts can predict the future.. She hasn't been wrong yet, but then she isn't specific either. She best describes it similarly to Halo.
Of course, as a dutiful empiricist, I've got plans to decrypt the phenomenon soon enough :D
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Originally posted by moot
The closest thing to a spiritual reality I've read, is John Barbour's "The end of time"; although I have to say it disappointed me when he suddenly started wrapping everything up together by a convenient deus ex machina, it's an altogether elegant theory.
http://www.platonia.com/ideas.html
Sounds like an interesting theory. Having read nothing of his but the brief intro you linked, can I correctly conclude he is supposing the universe to be static at the quantum level with our perception of change (time) simply an illusion based on our observation of it's different "capsules"? By that I mean we observe simultaneously existing states but in a sequence that gives the appearance of change? If my logical leap is even close to what he is supposing isn't our shifting awareness itself evidence of change and therefore time?
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isn't our shifting awareness itself evidence of change and therefore time?
Not according to him, but that's the intrigue of the book's plot, right there :)
Were it correct, it would rightly deserve its name, "Platonia".
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Goes without saying that Plato was a brilliant philosopher. His concept of everything emanating from perfect forms has the ring of truth to me. The question then becomes how do we see the true nature of the universe, beyond the shadows in which we dwell or the illusion of time?
Always liked that line from Star Trek 7, "time is the fire in which we burn".
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Originally posted by Pei
Ah, but how many of them can dance on the head of a pin?
What's going on dude have you killed a kangaroo yet? Are aussie chicks as easy as the exported ones ?
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Sorry for bumping this, but it did take me this long to explicit my replying thoughts enough to post them, and then remember to actually post them.
Lukster, I'd've told you this by PM to avoid bumping an old thread, but I thought others would appreciate knowing too.. This is if you haven't bought the book yet.
Barbour's idea, in brief, is that all the possible permutations of matter, likened to time "capsules" are imaginable as a configuration, where the experience of existence goes from one capsule to the next. A fair share of the book works to very coherently demonstrate this hypothesis could make for a valid theory of time.. or non-time, as a matter of fact:
Barbour eventually reasons that "God" itself is the 'power' that guides our souls, or experience, or existence or what have you, along all these permutations (differentiated by as little as one quanta - think about it: one quanta of difference among all the matter in the universe, how many total permutations is that?).. and that (I'm paraphrasing from faint memory here) what could be more sublime than being so guided by God? yadda yadda :p
So, time would not exist. He called this realm of timecapsules Platonia.
Originally posted by Suave
Yes they do. It's just that they're invisible and they have magical powers so nobody knows about them. They're unseen helpers with life's many problems, like coping with reality for example.
It's not exactly related, but I just read 1984 (in one swift night), finally. (exactly off topic is the memory that I had of first hearing of the novel, as a movie in fact: I was 10 years old, browsing Blockbuster, and thought "wow, a movie so freakin old, it sees 1984 as the future!!" :lol That means you, lazs)
The analogy that excuses this seemingly off topic anecdote is that in the book, the protagonist is finally broken down and corrupted by his torturer, with the help of pain inflicted, into admitting that reality, the past, even reason, do not exist because no one else bears such ideas.
That a tree makes no sound if no one is around to hear it falling down.
Human thought is not omniscient nor omnipotent, yet, so it is safe to assume it isn't infinite, yet.
There is therefore a certain quantity of reality that goes unnoticed by same mind, and it stands to reason that said unseen reality is no less real than what is perceived.
It's not such a far-fetched idea that there are such limits to our understanding.
It's contradictory to pretend there are such things beyond the limits of our understanding, and yet accept any conclusions about them; any statement made about them is unavoidably anthropomorphist, and self-contradictory.
That includes a statement on anything's existence or non-existence outside the extent of human thought.
Sort of like that Zen maxim: speak the idea, and it vanishes.
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"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together"
It's been decades and don't I remember the title or author but I read a sci-fi book in which it was theorized that there is only one particle of matter but because of time or the illusion of it makes up everything in existence.
Mind blowing stuff there Moot, thanks for the info. If it's not too math heavy I'll add it to my reading list.
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Originally posted by deSelys
Anyway, he had a near-death experience whe he flatlined and he told his parents that his late grandfather (not his biological grandfather) and his late cousin (again, not biological) who he named came to meet him while he was floating above his body and told him that he had to come back. Now, as a teen, it is possible that he had previously heard or read about near-death experiences. However, no one in his family remembered having told him about a cousin who died a few days after birth... before he arrived in Belgium from Sri Lanka.
I have flatlined twice and both times there was nothing.
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
I have flatlined twice and both times there was nothing.
I'll assume by flatline you mean your heart stopped and not your brain.
I think you didn't cease to exist or they wouldn't have been able to bring you back. If you are nothing other than the chemical/electrical makeup of your physical brain and body then you were still relatively intact. That you recall nothing of the experience means little imo, who even remembers all of their dreams afterall.
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It does get pretty heavy at times - not in math but in wrapping your mind around novelties and their implications - but he makes it so you can skip that without missing too much of the essential conceptual steps.
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lukster, nothing means > no shining light, no pearly gates, no out of body experiences, no one telling me anything like the boy said.
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
lukster, nothing means > no shining light, no pearly gates, no out of body experiences, no one telling me anything like the boy said.
I understood that. I was saying that you did not completely cease to function and therefore your mind was still working on some level but your conscious mind does not remember it.
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Guppy,
Your post was the most sobering words that I have read in a long time. I am so sorry for your loss; I can’t imagine anything worse. I have three daughters, ages 7, 5 & 1.
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Some may think Im a worthless, uncaring salamander but I'll tell you, Guppy that reading a post like yours brings me to tears.
I believe with all of my heart that your kids are in paradise and that you will see them again. Sending out prayers for you Guppy....I can't imagine the suffering you have been going through.
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I take complete responsibility for the things that happen to me. In some aspects, I amaze myself as to the amount of near death situations I've gotten myself out of.
On the other hand, I amaze myself as to the amount of near death experiences I've almost not gotten out of. Had I been a touch more of a ****-up, I don't think I'd be here.
So in summary, I'm completely awesome, yet almost a complete **** up. Does that mean I'm average?
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Life is a near death experience.