Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SunKing on December 01, 2006, 08:38:14 PM
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For anyone that hasn't exeprienced this game yet, here is your chance.
Link (http://storefront.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=fw_RedOrchestra)
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Awesome game. Id definately try it out if I were you all.
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Is this one of those 32 people per room deals? Or is it massive like ww2online?
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Is this one of those 32 people per room deals? Or is it massive like ww2online?
How bout clicking the link?
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Before I go clicking on things, what is 'Steam'? I'm leery of things that tell me I have to download and install someone else's software to run something else.
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Before I go clicking on things, what is 'Steam'? I'm leery of things that tell me I have to download and install someone else's software to run something else.
That's why I asked, didn't see any info other than to watch a trailer where I had to install software I knew nothing about.
Ty, but no ty
edit, nm, found some info. lol, it is 32 players. These games come and go, another mohaa or whatever.
I want something like ww2online, but with theaters other than France
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I own the game , lotta fun.:aok
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Great game...nothing more frustrating than watching your shells bounce off a Panther - or changing the barrell after cooking your MG42 in a firefight
Tronsky
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I was THIS close to picking up that game while shopping today. Was on sale too. Think ill try the demo and get it if its any good.
-edit-.. i saw STEAM and ran away.
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Yeah, it'll be a cold day in hell before I install Steam.
Think of Steam as the Big Brother of the gaming industry.
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It is a shame they use Steam. I keep forgetting why I never will play RO, then I go look and get a reminder. If I had another computer I could dedicate to Steam, I'd be ok with it, but the Wife would have a coronary if I add another computer to our home network. I already have 3 on my KVM switch, for myself.
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Good enough. I wont bother sharing anything with you guys anymore. Same ole responses.
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Red Orchestra was a fun game back for UT2k3.
If you don't mind allowing your computer to be assraped by Steam, go right ahead.
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We should add another phobia to ever-growing list: Steamphobia.
I had it since HL2 release, purchased RO and Dangerous Waters on it and still have no problems. I understand when people freak out because of StarForce, but this is silly….
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Yeah I got RO, DoD:source, and Dangerous waters on Steam, and it doesnt do anything that bothers me.
RO is a blast nothing like sniping someone across the map with an anti tank rifle. Or killing a team of russians with an MG-34 Rambo style and mowing em down from the hip. Of course the realism nazis pitch a fit when one does that.
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Originally posted by Russian
We should add another phobia to ever-growing list: Steamphobia.
I had it since HL2 release, purchased RO and Dangerous Waters on it and still have no problems. I understand when people freak out because of StarForce, but this is silly….
Don't bother trying to to be rational with them - I tried a while back it just leads to more paranoia.
There's lots of good stuff on Steam and thousands of people use Steam and have no issue at all. Other gaming companies are coming to Steam to deliver their products.
If they don't want to 'play' its their loss. RO - even over Steam - is a lot of fun.
I can't wait to hear their rants over the new in game advertising stuff like in Battlefield 2142.
I guess they will always have Aces High to play...
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Ummm, I dont remember knocking anything, I just asked what it was. The people supporting Steam seem to have more attitude than the ones putting it down. I just simply dont install things on my computer if I dont know what they do. Period. I've never heard of Steam, dont know what it is, dont want to install it without knowing. Skuzzy doesnt like it, thats a pretty good argument for me that is not a good thing. But I'd still like to hear just what it is so I can make up my own mind.
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Ummm, I dont remember knocking anything, I just asked what it was. The people supporting Steam seem to have more attitude than the ones putting it down.
Any one single you out? Please quote it...
fyi,
This isn't the first thread about Steam on this forum thus Sunking's reply of:
Same ole responses.
Steam causes no problems for a lot of folks, others fear and hate it with a passion. RO is fun - even over Steam.
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Paranoia? Fear? Hate? Phobia? I guess it is easier to chastise than to just allow others to handle thier computers in thier own manner.
You do realize that in being somewhat over-zealous in defending Steam, you are portraying the exact things you claim others are? Just noticing.
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Originally posted by Bruno
Any one single you out? Please quote it...
fyi,
This isn't the first thread about Steam on this forum thus Sunking's reply of:
Steam causes no problems for a lot of folks, others fear and hate it with a passion. RO is fun - even over Steam.
I know this isnt the first time its been mentioned, and yet not one time has anyone explained what it is. Neither did you. I asked a simple question. If it causes no problems, why do so many people dislike it? WHAT IS IT?
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It's Valve Software's digital distribution program. The scheme is to get rid of middle man publishers.
The reality is that it has some quality features, but is also getting bloated and gives some people a lot of bugs, and triggers some's pet peeves, to wit: its somewhat tentacular all-pervasiveness.
http://www.steampowered.com/
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
It is a shame they use Steam. I keep forgetting why I never will play RO, then I go look and get a reminder. If I had another computer I could dedicate to Steam, I'd be ok with it, but the Wife would have a coronary if I add another computer to our home network. I already have 3 on my KVM switch, for myself.
My home office currently have 3 servers (2 render servers + a file/printer server), my main work/gaming computer and a laptop all networked up using 3 different OS'. The 3 servers are controlled remotely by my laptop or the main rig, which got 3 monitors and a projector hooked up to it (for better workspace). I have about fifty programs on the main rig + about twice that number of games, including games that require Steam and Starforce. I also run a custom interface shell on all the rigs except the fileserver (which still runs on 2000 server).
I've been running the same installation of XP on the main rig now for two years, even migrated it to a new computer (and I'm currently in the process of another upgrade/migration). However I do take regular backup images of all my OS' and I have had to revert to a previous backup a couple of times, but overall I have had little or no problems keeping everything working flawlessly. But I do know what I'm doing (not saying you don't, you obviously do), and of course as always "your mileage may vary". I do however think your stance on Starforce and Steam is a bit … not paranoid, but perhaps "overly idealistic". But as always, that's your choice.
Personally I've have no problems with either Starforce or Steam, and I'm actually quite fond of the Steam service.
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
I know this isnt the first time its been mentioned, and yet not one time has anyone explained what it is. Neither did you. I asked a simple question. If it causes no problems, why do so many people dislike it? WHAT IS IT?
That's right, I didn't because none following replies about Steam had much to do with your question. They were just more of the same Steam 'sucks'. I was just surprised that you would assume the 'Steam talk' that followed was directly attributed to you.
Paranoia? Fear? Hate? Phobia? I guess it is easier to chastise than to just allow others to handle thier computers in thier own manner.
You do realize that in being somewhat over-zealous in defending Steam, you are portraying the exact things you claim others are? Just noticing.
I don't care one way about or another about Steam. I use because there's games delivered over Steam I like to play. If they got rid of Steam and I would just be the cd /dvds.
We went through this in another thread about RO and Steam. I asked what was so wrong about Steam you gave nothing but the same old posts about Steam eating hard drives and consuming system resources. The same stuff every 'Steam hater' says. Those issues haven't been a problem to me or anyone I know who uses Steam, maybe we are just lucky.
I appreciate your insight into most things CPU related. However, until some one articulates exactly just what's so horrible about 'Steam' the 'Steam Sucks' mantra rings hollow.
With the amount of quality games delivered over Steam - and this will grow in the future - it just seems silly to dismiss Steam when there's a whole lot of fun to be had.
Starforce OTOH they can keep...
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Ok, you want specifics.
1) Valve did deliver a version of Steam which did, in fact, wipe hard drives of considerable amounts of data. I was curious about that one and did check into why or how it could happen and found it. If they can deliver a program once, which can do significant damage to a system there is nothing to say it cannot happen again.
2) They lost thier source code to Half Life once. It was poor practices which lead to it. This suggests they do not have a strong desire to allow a network admin to do the right things to secure thier network. They purportedly fixed it, but it took a disaster to make it happen. In my experience, when a company flagrantly ignores very basic security, it will funnel its way into the very code they provide.
Statistically, I will not allow them the chance to provide a piece of software which could in fact create a security issue.
Those two reasons alone are enough to keep me away from it. Regardless of who runs it without issue today, does not mean there will never be an issue. The problems with the issues they can have are not worth the risk to me.
Risk assessment is part of my job and has been a part of my career for over 20 years. I take it very seriously.
There is nothing any user can say which will alter the risk assessment. Your opinions are just that. They are void of any risk assessment value. In this matter, the company providing the software is at the heart of the risk assessment. Thier history suggests they should not be trusted.
Viking obviously has done risk assessment and taken what he feels is appropriate measures to insure a stable network. While I am not saying this cannot be accomplished, I am also saying there are elements which you cannot control in this particular scenario. Knowing that and assessing the risk is up to the user.
There is not a game made which will ever be worth exposing my networks to the risks inherent with Steam. The risks are valid and proven.
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I've been playing RO through Steam almost every night now for 2-3 months. I've never had any issues at all with Steam. Anyway, I HIGHLY recommend RO for someone looking for awesome infantry/tank battles with beautiful graphics.
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/4899/0000000255oc0.jpg
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/5462/0000000256mx7.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7443/jan31stshot5jc6.jpg
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I am trying WW2 online while waiting for my city of villians prepaid card to come in from amazon. It freezes up regularly after 5 minutes, its like I am trapped in 1998s iPanzer 44 and I cant get out!!
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I used to play Ro daily when it was just a ut2004 mod.
Funny, i haven't bought any games since 2004.
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Skuzzy most gamers I know have dedicated gaming machines, run reasonably secure networks etc... They already take measures to minimize risk like Viking. However, risk is always there.
Steam 'eating of hard drives' happened in those early betas. Even wwiiol ate a few hard drives a few years ago (weren't some of those guys ex-coworkers of HT back in WBs?).
The risk of Steam eating your hard drive is minimal by any measure.
The HL2 Source Code fiasco has been thoroughly explored and explained. Yeah it may raise questions but this wasn't really about 'Steam' per se. I guess I could be worried that some clever hacker is going to hack into Steam and steal my account info or use Steam to hack into my computer and steal all my secrets. I could also worry about folks rummaging through my trash - stealing my mail or that negligent government worker who gives away my personal information.
Gamers today have to deal with many more issues then anything attributed to 'Steam'. Invasive piracy protection for one, in game add spyware etc... Even those crappy control panel's that are shipping with Nvidia/ATI drivers.
There's a discussion on another forum that sort of touches on all this. A poster replied:
I support solutions like Steam, for obvious reasons, and their security works, doesn't get in my face and comes in a game package that costs considerably less on account of having cut out the parasites like -scum (who appear to have learned nothing, despite the debacles already suffered with Starfarce and Boontybox).
Now I get you don't like the 'risk' - too bad RO is fun.
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Reasonably secure has different meanings to different people. My local computers do not run any anti-virus programs, nor firewalls, nor anti-spyware, or anything remotely close to any of those programs.
I have been around the net since the DaARPA days, and have never been hacked, never gotten a virus, never gotten any spyware/malware and I only describe my network as reasonably secure.
Most gamers I know have atrocious security habits. That is a relative statement though. What is atrocious to me, may be peachy-keen to others. Also keep in mind. I am more programmer than gamer. I have far too many years of work invested to risk it for some game.
I have no desire to dissuade anyone from doing what they want to do with thier computer. I simply state my own personal concerns.
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Steam is great. I wish more game publishers had online distribution systems.
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So basically the advantage to installing Steam is that you can download games to your computer rather than going to the store and buying them, and open up your computer to allow it to download updates and such from a company with a questionable history in the area of security.
I'll go to the store and buy the box if I want the game. I didnt see anything on their website that isnt available in retail stores.
I'm making no argument about the current state of their security, but from the reading I've been doing there is a LARGE population of folks who are wary of Steam. Even given the standard sheep reactionaries, enough to make me leery of it too. Those of you supporting it have an argument for it equats to "Games r teh fun". Not worth the risk to me.
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How many people do you think use Steam?
There's 200,000 players online playing a Steam game right now.
There will always be unhappy folks no what program is in question. If I had spent time reading the AH forums I never would have downloaded AH.
It is not just about just 'downloading' verses going to the store and buying the box. You can't play any 'Steam' game but through Steam. RO in the box has Steam on the disk. Boxed games come with various invasive protection schemes like Starforce and SecuROM etc... You are no safer with a boxed game then with those over Steam.
With Steam as long as you remember your login and password you can download the games as many times as you want on as many PCs as you want. However, 2 players can't be online using the same account.
Steam can be configured to 'keep this game updated' or not. It has a decent game browser (ASE was much better but Yahoo destroyed it) etc...
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Originally posted by Bruno
Skuzzy most gamers I know have dedicated gaming machines, run reasonably secure networks etc... They already take measures to minimize risk like Viking. However, risk is always there.
Most gamers I know run awful networks, highly unsecured. Many of them really on freeware tools for security that are sub-par
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Bruno, thank you for the information.
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I've been running Steam since it came out. I remember when it first started, I hated the thing. Ate up resources, and put a noticible drain on my computer resources anytime it was on. Even hampered game performance when it decided to download an update WHILE I was playing a game. That was several years ago.
I don't even notice Steam when it's running now, but I do make it a habit to turn it off when I'm not using it. It's a pretty neat little tool that's full of info, and games at the touch of a download button.
I haven't had any kinds of complaints about it in years since a lot of bugs were worked out of it.
Thumbs up for Steam in my book. Unless you have a straight up business computer with sensitive files, I don't really know what the problem is downloading content from the internet. If you're not DLing porn, surfing porn, or visiting strange outlandish websites, you're pretty much staying in the clear. If you have information that is that near and dear to your heart or business life, I wouldn't be using it as a game computer.
I would imaging Skuzzy has a lot of AH software and programming on his computer that he would not like to get hacked or destroyed. If my living was on a computer, it would be as far away from a video game as I could get it.
If you're a gamer, check Steam out. If you don't like it, uninstall the thing. :P
S!
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Oh yeah, RO is a nice looking game. Haven't checked it out yet, anyone have details about gameplay?
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StarofAFrica, another good feature of Steam is that, if I remember right, it has embedded anti cheat systems for at least some of the games it channels.
HLVC is what it's called, (again IIRC), so if it were a factor in your decision to use Steam or not, you could check if the game that interests you is protected by it or not.
Don't quote me on this, but I think their anti piracy systems are quite good, if not one of the most effective in the industry.
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I dont think its right of me to knock something I havent tried and explored fully myself. So I set up an older machine and installed the software. I did alot of "fine print" reading in the EULA, and while I firmly believe everything they have done here was done with the best of intentions, and to make things easier on both the gamers and Valve, it really scares me.
Valve's stated intentions for the Steam delivery system are not aimed at copyright protection, but at making the "platform more useful for developers and customers". This doesnt seem to be borne out by some of the other things I'm reading, but I'm trying to keep an open mind. I've had alot of bad experiences with other companies and their "anti-piracy" systems, so I'm naturally inclined to look at such things with skepticism. Still, trying to stay objective here..............
A few things really bother me. Like the fact that you cant buy and play a game offline without verifying the content ONLINE first and having it checked for updates. EVERY TIME you start the game. This would really stink if I were on dialup (and those are the people I'd think would be most likely to want to play offline). What happens if Steam gets cancelled? You stuck with a game you cant even play offline then. The thing that bothers me the most though is their ability to not only monitor and collect data from my computer's hard drive (supported by the EULA), but the fact that they have FULL ACCESS to my computer, and can even go so far as to manipulate data. This is intended mainly for tech support purposes, so they can see how the data is being stored and used on different systems, and so they can connect remotely to your computer and fix problems for you rather than trying to talk through them on the phone. Great idea. Only what happens if the tech screws something up? Or halfway through a fix, your network craps out and he moved something important? Or (heaven forbid) someone hacks their network and gets access to their system, and then can jump right into anyone's computer that is logged in and do whatever he likes.
RO did look nice. Steam worked fine on my computer (and this was my older one), overall everything went smooth and I was happy with it. If I didnt know my way around computers, this would be a great way to game. Its rather like AOL in that regard. Gaming with training wheels. I'm sorry though, the potential bad points far outweigh the good ones. I cant see having a separate computer JUST for playing RO. Nothing else they had interested me that much.
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I have steam on my desktop here in the office and also have it on my network back home.
I have no issues whatsover with it, not one single issue, zip, nothing.
It has never once affected anything I'm doing here or back home.
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I dont think anyone in the thread said it causes any problems with the operation of your computer, or that it doesnt work. Most of the complaints are about the POTENTIAL for problems, with a few references to previous problems thrown in. Every online game has technical issues crop up. Nauture of the beast. In actual fact, as noted in my previous post, the software performed flawlessly when I installed it last night. However, I just think that (for ME), the potential built into their system for abuse is too great to be outweighed by the content offered. Thats my personal opinion. I'm not asking anyone who uses it to stop. I also thought that the two points I made are ones that should be considered by anyone using it or thinking of it, but again I am not saying you should not or should stop. If whatever risk is there is worth it to you for what you get, then go for it.
At the beginning of this thread I knew absolutely ZERO about Valve, their products, or the problems or benefits of using Steam as a delivery vehicle. My experience with their product totals about 6 hours. That includes download and installing, so say 4.5 hours total of experience on the system. I'm certainly no expert on their stuff. I just took the time to read the EULA and what other people had to say about it.
BTW, thanks SunKing for bringing this up. RO is something I wanted to try. Because you made me aware of the free trial, I took advantage of it. Even if I decided it wasnt for me, for whatever reason, I still wanted to try it, and appreciate you letting us know about it.
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Originally posted by Hawco
I have steam on my desktop here in the office and also have it on my network back home.
I have no issues whatsover with it, not one single issue, zip, nothing.
It has never once affected anything
and you wouldn't see it if 'they' or 'he' decided to attack your network...
this is what StarOfAfrica is trying to say...
by letting them have access to your computer and its DATA they don't need to do anything but retrieve said data and study it at there leisure...
having a 3rd party for Downloading or Distribution purposes is fine, but letting them have CONTROL is NOT!!!
me, myself and I are the only one's to control my puter, even that gets to be difficult....lots of arguments :p
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Originally posted by Catalyst
and you wouldn't see it if 'they' or 'he' decided to attack your network...
this is what StarOfAfrica is trying to say...
by letting them have access to your computer and its DATA they don't need to do anything but retrieve said data and study it at there leisure...
having a 3rd party for Downloading or Distribution purposes is fine, but letting them have CONTROL is NOT!!!
me, myself and I are the only one's to control my puter, even that gets to be difficult....lots of arguments :p
Hard to do for them from my end, I own a Network company and I have had some of my engineers in here check it out top to bottom and the report I got back was fine, if a guy with a masters in software engineering with 15+ years experience in intergrating operating systems and SAP into networks says it's fine then I belive him.
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No offense Hawco, but if you have software on your computer which connects to an external server, you have no control over the data which can leave your computer, or be placed on your computer, unless you have active packet sniffing running on your network looking for specific data patterns which could be recognized as data from your computer.
Just curious, do you ave ActiveX controls enabled on your Internet connection?
For the Steam users, when you run it, is there a LISTENER running on a network port (netstat -an from the command box)?
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Originally posted by Hawco
Hard to do for them from my end, I own a Network company and I have had some of my engineers in here check it out top to bottom and the report I got back was fine, if a guy with a masters in software engineering with 15+ years experience in intergrating operating systems and SAP into networks says it's fine then I belive him.
No disrespect, but I work in network security and most software engineers don't have a clue about security. To make it worse most *think* they know about security.
I tried to see what I could find about how steam works, I couldn't find any info on the transport method. But it sounds like it is akin to an SSL-VPN with a level of remote control at the client (enabling installation of patches, detection of cheatware etc). To me that is a massive hole in network security. You're basically opening your network up to an outside resource with no control over what goes in or out.