Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Fencer51 on December 02, 2006, 09:54:52 PM
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Doing the following F4U-1D, its RNZAF and that's all I got right now.
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Progress shot
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Its looking good Fencer. One thing I noticed, the photo seems to show the white camo line coming further up the cowling. BTW I found some photos of a plastic kit of this aircraft here (http://rnzaf.hobbyvista.com/rnzafmod.html).
Odd that it is a D but has the framed canopy of the A.
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Greebo,
Do you think I should put it on the 1A?
Also, thanks I had found the same website. The photo seems to me to show the lower part of the cowling in the same blue as the tail. (roughly) I tried it with the lower portions of the cowling white and am not apposed to putting that back in, just want to make sure it's what we are seeing.
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The two drop tanks under the wingroots suggest its a D, the A only had the single hardpoint under the fuselage. I'd guess either the factory used up some stock of A canopies on the early Ds, or it was replaced in the frontline after the original was damaged. I'd suggest you leave it as a D.
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Nice skin.
Ya, the FG-1Ds and F4U-1Ds both had some with the earlier "braced" canopy, the braces on the canopy do not prove its an F4U-1A.
The RNZAF also used F4U-1A, and FG-1Ds both in the Pacific.
Since the photo shows 3 drop tanks, and the RNZAF used the -1D, I would say its a D model, with the older canopy.
...Greebo, re "KD431" isnt that also an FG-1D? My info indicates it was.
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Yeah, now I'm looking for it I can see loads of photos of Ds with the framed canopy.
There's a chapter in the book Corsair KD431 discussing whether it is an A or a D. The conclusion was that it was an A since it has only the centre pylon, not the wingroot ones. Also its build number was 129 aircraft earlier than the first D off the production line.
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Copy that, I think your sources are more detailed than the ones I have on her, was just wondering. Sounds like a late build FG-1A (KD431) which the Royal Navy also took delivery of.
The canopy business does make it more work for history buffs to determine type. I cant beleive they could be so thoughtless! ;)
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Looking at that photo there's definitely more than 1 shade of paint at work here.
It's not just a fading or washing out of the photo, because the wing in front of the tail has a steady and consistent pigmentation. The tail is definitely 5 shades lighter than the nose. Even the tail down to the belly color looks the same shade.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Looking at that photo there's definitely more than 1 shade of paint at work here.
It's not just a fading or washing out of the photo, because the wing in front of the tail has a steady and consistent pigmentation. The tail is definitely 5 shades lighter than the nose. Even the tail down to the belly color looks the same shade.
I was noticing that about the tail too... it seems much lighter...almost the same as the bottom of that bird.
In any case... she's looking great Fencer... can't wait to fly her! :aok
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The baking Pacific sun, salt air, and the constant use from improvised strips did terrible things to the paintwork, thats why often in b/w photos they look so contrasted. Warbirds rarely got repainted once sent to the combat zone. Some did, some did only on certain parts, repairs ect. For the most part repairing paint damage was not viewed as a priority, even if they had the facilities, which often they did not.
Some of the heaviest weathering in WW2 took place on pacific birds.
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Update:
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Looking good, but I still have the same complaint as on the VF-17 one, where the chipping looks more "spotty" than natural. It's looking rather even here, too.
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I still don't know... I mean look at this:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1165897530_lil_audrey.jpg)
I just did a 3x3 average eyedropper sample and scaled it up (used marquee and paint bucket) to show the shades next to each other. I don't think that's just weathering. Dirt and sand being kicked up on the underside is one thing, but a white dorsal surface? Doesn'd add up, as the debris wouldn't reach this area, especially not so uniformly.
In some cases salt water corroded some paint jobs pretty badly into a white color, but again it's only on the dorsal surface, and the belly, ventral tail, and engine cowling lack this (clearly, they are all much darker).
Fencer, what are the odds we're looking at a rather rare paint job? The quality of the photo isn't faded or bleached. It looks clear, but it's showing us very distinct discolorations. I'm of the mind that it's showing a fair representation of what the actual plane looked like.
I'm all for giving it a white shade on the upper dorsal surface! It looks like it fades to blue right around the canopy area.
EDIT: It looks like the same coat of paint on the belly between the landing gears. If you look at the top of the oil cooler intakes in the wing roots you see the same thing, but THERE it looks like paint has worn off to show a color underneath. Could it be that they covered the plain in ASW colors, or something, then painted it blue, or half blue? Or half blue then some of it wore off (on the wings)?
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Krusty,
An interesting take. There are models done with this scheme and they are not showing it that way, yet we what do they know! I agree with your analysis of the colors in the photos. Whether that is a function of sun and the angle of the photo or not is the question.
I will experiment with some options and post them, but it will be a few days.
Saxman,
Thanks for the input, but based upon photos I have seen, I am happy with the chipping here and on the VF17 1A.
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What's really interesting is the fact that you can see the demarcation line through the canopy, on the fuselage, where the canopy frame sits when it's closed.
EDIT: Oh, and many thanks for taking another look! I'm really looking forward to this one!
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Krusty,
I was looking through my library and found several photos of F4Us that seem to duplicate what we are seeing with the photo above. I don't have a scanner, but on pages 53, 56, and 61 of Osprey's F4U Aces the same white tail and aft fusalage is apparant. These are all US birds. I think it's a trick of the light and camera angle not a white (light) aft section on the plane.
I will work up some alternatives to look at all the same.
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Could be the constant fuel leakage up on the front of the plane causes a persistent stain on the front portion of the fuselage and cowling. Probably a little exhaust and oil staining as well as the Hog was known for blowing oil and smoke out the cowl flaps. Don't know if WWII Avgas was colored, but 100LL leaking on a current GA plane can cause a dark stain since the fuel has dark blue dye in it. Wasn't 130 octane dyed Green?
Also, check the portion on the starboard wingroot that looks like all the paint has been abraded off--maybe by ground crew or pilot working/standing close to the cockpit?
Another idea on the lower cowling section. Could be it was a replacement part, as I've seen a lot of the Pacific units with mis-matched cowling sections where some were painted and others were bare aluminum. One P-47 pilot just put the old cowling sections on his new Jug to save the noseart once...
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Bird submitted, I can find no evidence of a RNZAF plane with the aft fusalage being as light as discussed. I did find several other photos from relatively the same angle on US planes that had the same "appearance" of lighter afterhalf of the fusalage. I believe it is a trick of the light and BW photo.
Stoney, I caught the wear and tear on the wings as you had mentioned.
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I checked my Corsair registration number index and:
BuNavAir number 50459 (c/n 5706) tranferred to New Zealand as NZ5440
and BuNavAir numbers 50360 to 50659 were Vought F4U-1D Corsairs.
Because of the number being obscured, I double checked and all NZ544? Corsairs were -1D models.
Besides, it has a tank on the right wing pylon... F4U-1 did not have hard points to attach wing pylons. It therefore has to be an F4U-1D or FG-1D. The ribbed bulge canopy was simply replaced by the newer bulged canopy as they became available during the production of the -1D. In any rate the canopies were interchangeable, so you might get a late canopy on an early plane and vice versa if replacement parts were robbed from damaged aircraft.
FYI, the BuNavAir numbers were not issued in sequence, so you can't assume a higher number is a later plane. In fact, they are quite scrambled.
:aok
BTW Fencer, you are making some really great looking skins! :O Keep up the good work. One day I may get the motivation to gird my loins and redo my VMF-213 skin... but not today.
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Thanks man.
I got F4U Corsairs at War by Richard Abrams over the holidays. It was published in the 70s. It has a photo of a RNZAF corsair that looks almost exactly like "40" above, but its "10". The angles are the same, it could have been taken on the same mission takeoff sequence. It even has the same drop tank configuration.
Its very telling as the undercowl on "10" is indeed white, which further reinforces what I interpreted to be a blue color in that position.
Wish I had that scanner ;)
Also got "the Great Pacific Air Offensive of WWII - Return to the Phillipines 1944" by John Lambert. It has a large copy of the photo of "40" shown above. It also definately shows that the color on the tail and under the cowling is not white.
Cheers
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Thanks man.
I got F4U Corsairs at War by Richard Abrams over the holidays. It was published in the 70s. It has a photo of a RNZAF corsair that looks almost exactly like "40" above, but its "10". The angles are the same, it could have been taken on the same mission takeoff sequence. It even has the same drop tank configuration.
Its very telling as the undercowl on "10" is indeed white, which further reinforces what I interpreted to be a blue color in that position.
Wish I had that scanner ;)
Also got "the Great Pacific Air Offensive of WWII - Return to the Phillipines 1944" by John Lambert. It has a large copy of the photo of "40" shown above. It also definately shows that the color on the tail and under the cowling is not white.
Cheers
I was looking up this plane when I found you had done it.
Is this the picture you all were looking at?
"L'il Audrey" NZ5440
(http://hsfeatures.com/features04/images/lil_audrey.jpg)
just wondering
thanx
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Yes.
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The reason I was looking it up was, I think the kiwi's <pardon> should be represented.
It was nice to see it done :)
#20 NZ5420 Hey... it's 10 closer than you :D
(http://www.thescale.info/news/uploads/nz5420-f4u-1d.jpg)
"An interesting photo of F4U-1D NZ5420, of No.3 Servicing Unit, Jacquinot Bay, 1945. Gloss Sea Blue all overall but note that at least the first two Corsairs in this line-up have lighter coloured cowlings (Yellow?). The yellow "last two" and white propeller cuffs (some aircraft had white spinners too) marked the development of No.3 SU's markings."
same time same place? the bottom half of the cowling is not BW tricks. think what your seeing in the photo is more represented by this
(http://www.uswarplanes.net/images/corsair-02.jpg)
"F4U-1A, BuNo. 17995, features the "birdcage" canopy, distinctive of
the early Corsairs, this aircraft has been painted as RNZAF Corsair NZ25"
or this
(http://www.uswarplanes.net/images/corsair-03.jpg)
The last flying RNZAF Corsair!
"FG-1D, BuNo. 92044, was RNZAF s/n: NZ5648 during World War II.
The RNZAF operated 424 Corsairs from 1942 to 1949 with 60 being of
the FG-1D variant which was the Goodyear built version of the F4U-1D."
Panel pieces and what not were replaced with "what we got" was may 45?
+1 for being there :) in the 1st place :cool:
Now for what I really want :) Now I have your attn. :cheers:
(http://images39.fotosik.pl/9/aa85c9eaecb4ec8a.jpg)
(http://images46.fotosik.pl/9/ebe1ecef222520ad.jpg)
"W8138 154 No 488 Squadron, Kallang, Singapore. Twenty one aircraft in poor condition were taken over from No.67 Squadron (RAF). Coded NF-O. Crash landed with most of rudder shot away on 18 January 1942. Pilot Officer N. Sharp uninjured but aircraft written off."
"F/O. NOEL C. SHARP 3 victories RNZAF 488/243/604 Squadrons Known claims:
January 12, 1942 Fighter Probable
January 13,1942 Fighter Ki-43
January 18, 1942 Fighter Type O
January 20, 1942 2 Bombers Damaged"
"Sharp is credited with three kills during the Battle of Malaya He claimed an unknown Japanese fighter on January 12, a Ki-43 Oscar the next day, an A6M Zero on January 18 and damaged two bombers on January 20.
He was shot down on 17 January 1942 but survived. Engineers were able to repair his aircraft, replacing the front section of the engine cowling with that of another plane. On 7 February, 1942, Sharp flew to Palembang, the Dutch East Indies in his Buffalo aircraft, where it never flew again.
He was killed in action on 20 February 1942, flying a Hawker Hurricane. He was 20 years old. Sharp was buried in the Kranji War Cemetery tery in Singapore He was posthumously awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross on 26 December"
as far as I know that 3 more kills than any other RNZAF f4u pilot.
Pretty Please,
Mega
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Greebo that looks to be right up your extremely talented alley! Cool plane Brewster too.
I will look at the F4U-1Ds and put it on the "to do" list.
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Now for what I really want :) Now I have your attn. :cheers:
(http://images39.fotosik.pl/9/aa85c9eaecb4ec8a.jpg)
(http://images46.fotosik.pl/9/ebe1ecef222520ad.jpg)
"W8138 154 No 488 Squadron, Kallang, Singapore. Twenty one aircraft in poor condition were taken over from No.67 Squadron (RAF). Coded NF-O. Crash landed with most of rudder shot away on 18 January 1942. Pilot Officer N. Sharp uninjured but aircraft written off."
"F/O. NOEL C. SHARP 3 victories RNZAF 488/243/604 Squadrons Known claims:
January 12, 1942 Fighter Probable
January 13,1942 Fighter Ki-43
January 18, 1942 Fighter Type O
January 20, 1942 2 Bombers Damaged"
"Sharp is credited with three kills during the Battle of Malaya He claimed an unknown Japanese fighter on January 12, a Ki-43 Oscar the next day, an A6M Zero on January 18 and damaged two bombers on January 20.
He was shot down on 17 January 1942 but survived. Engineers were able to repair his aircraft, replacing the front section of the engine cowling with that of another plane. On 7 February, 1942, Sharp flew to Palembang, the Dutch East Indies in his Buffalo aircraft, where it never flew again.
He was killed in action on 20 February 1942, flying a Hawker Hurricane. He was 20 years old. Sharp was buried in the Kranji War Cemetery tery in Singapore He was posthumously awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross on 26 December"
as far as I know that 3 more kills than any other RNZAF f4u pilot.
Pretty Please,
Mega
Well you might need a couple of pics of the front of the plane too then?
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan2-1.jpg) (http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan1-2.jpg)
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I can do that skin for you Megalodon.
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:O Thanx Fence :salute
Lyric... great shots there ... ty
Mr.Greebo Sir,
That would be Fantastic
It would be a nice addition to the RNZAF skins and would be the skin I ride on the Brewster.
Thank you :salute