Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: FiLtH on December 05, 2006, 09:08:46 PM
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(http://FilthsHangar.homestead.com/BOMBGROUP2.jpg)
This is for folks that enjoy historical bomb runs, or those that usually fly fighters but from time to time enjoy a good buff run. Something to look forward to every once in awhile. No set schedule, just every once in awhile for a change of pace.
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Rolling Thunder Redux!
Count me in.
AKKarma
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I like a nice bomb run now and then. I'm 1337 in B26s.
pH34r t3h m4r4ud3R!!1!!one!
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This sounds cool.
Count me in FiLtH.
;)
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If ya ever need extra pilots or escort, count VF-31 in. Im currently working with my guys on escorting buffs!! Give me a holla FiLtH!!
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count me in :aok
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yeah! i'd love to be a part of a large bomber group that holds tight formation that accurately and strategically bombs targets!!!!
;)
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Wait a minute...
So if you make a fancy post its a Historical thing...
But if your squad just does it, then its a hoard...???
K, whatever.
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can ya say C-HOG,
99 formations of buffs on the wall, 99 formations of buffs.... Take three down, shoot them to the ground.......98 buff formations left on the wall,
98 formations of buff on the wall, 98 formations of buffs.....Take three down, shoot them to the ground.......97 buff formations left on the wall....
97 formations of buffs on the wall,97 formations of buffs..... Take three down, shoot them to the ground.......96 buff formations left on the wall
well you get the idea:aok
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Better bring alot of chogs :P
Kurt this will be something where a base capture doesnt matter so much as the fight getting there and out does. Most likely we will have everyone calibrate, but drop on the lead planes's call.
If you have guys that would like to do it please join in.
Like in the AvA, a couple days before the mission, I will alert everyone when the mission will be on this forum. Then its up to everyone to show up and away we go.
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I'm interested
Sounds Fun
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Always up for a decent buff raid with some purpose..... take out strats, factories, cities, HQ. It's all good.
Definately a Frame Rate Killer. Video Cards packing it in with a whimper and a shudder.
PM tedrbr, or find me in-game.
B-17's my fav strat buff, w 250#-500# ord. B-24's good for heavy loads, and still have good defense. Ki-67's good pentration bomber against strats at airfields, especially in numbers, but hard for some people to get accurate with the Flying Dragon. B-26's fun on the deck, or could get in over TT and waste every vehicle in the area. Mass Stuka Raid always fun. Not a fan of the Lanc myself, but I might ride with that, or escort.
To "look good", I think you'll want to hit strat targets like towns, cities, factories..... the moment you try to get lot's of pilots to hit strats at fields, or even HQ..... they will wander about out of the formation.
Wish the game allowed skins in planned missions......
Looking for something like this?:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1164674807_formation.jpg)
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count me in:aok
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With practice ted I hope to see that. But just staying within 100 of the lead plane will be a start. If the lead maintains a 45 manifold or so, it allows others to catch it if they stray. It takes a bit of concentration to fly a long mission close.
As far as bombing, I'm thinking full salvo with the proper delay set, and dropping when the lead does. Hence the need for close formation at drop. That way the pilots can concentrate on holding formation and not getting all separated, which always ruins it.
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Count me in, I miss the huge bomber missions of old.
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Only problem is, just how historical do we wanna get? I can tell you from experience that you don't get many interceptions at 25-30k.
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Put me on the list.
Big Mickey
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Well I don't want a 35k milkrun so we will likely by18-20k to start with. If everyone and their brother grabs a 262 to intercept us, then we will go higher next time. Want it fun for all sides.
Been through this in the AvA. It will work fine. We just need to get people onboard and willing to cooperate. The beauty of it is, the worse thing a griefer can do is come try to kill us...and thats the whole idea :P
And if 262s are too much a problem, we can goto other arenas than just the late war.
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Originally posted by OOZ662
Only problem is, just how historical do we wanna get? I can tell you from experience that you don't get many interceptions at 25-30k.
I'd disagree..... big buff missions like this in-game usually start well behind front lines.... that big long DAR usually catches someone's attention, and after word gets out about these missions, you'll see plenty of interceptors coming up... no matter the altitude.
They don't all have to be high alt missions of course.
And if you have a good formation, close, but with some off-set seperation vertically and horizontally, for overlapping fields of fire, then any 262 that sticks his hand into the formation will pull back a bloody stump. It's usually the stragglers that get chewed up, those that fall out of formation, one way or another.
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Wether escort or bomber, I´m very interested to participate.
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Count me in filth i love a good mass bomb raid.
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I would love to do this, but I'm not sure if I can since I'm already in a squad.
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Sounds good, Where do we sign up....
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sounds good....... im sure the 303rd will be into this ;)
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I'd be willing to bet my squad members - The Skyknights - would be interested in this. I'll post it on the squad website.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
(http://FilthsHangar.homestead.com/BOMBGROUP2.jpg)
This is for folks that enjoy historical bomb runs, or those that usually fly fighters but from time to time enjoy a good buff run. Something to look forward to every once in awhile. No set schedule, just every once in awhile for a change of pace.
Before HiTech changed the server setup, on weekends I was able to recruit and command 25+ or sometimes 35+ people to fly in what I liked to call a BFM (Big F Mission, F standing for, you guessed it).
It was mainly for fun, raiding HQs, Ports, Citys. But we did go on occasional 5/6 base destroying run.
I'm well up for this, I just need to set some late night time aside because I'm all the way across the pond and all.
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This will not require you to sign-up for anything. Just keep an eye on the forums over the next few days or so. This is where you will be alerted of a mission.
As far as you being in a squad...this BombWIng is not a squad. Just a loose bunch of interested people who want to go on a big mission, and are willing to side switch to keep it fair, as well as to make sure we get the best bombers from all 3 countries to fill the ranks. Its pretty much up to your squad policies as far as that goes.
Kaz, sounds like a good time :)
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I will do it when I can. Dang shift work limits my availability during prime time USA hours right now.
Muttman
Sick Puppies
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Sounds fun.
Kurt, why do you have to come in and seagull every thread?
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Bombers is all I fly. Count me in. I think that the SkyKnights would love these missions sents the SkyKnights are a bomber group.
Count me in.
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Count me in FiLtH:).
asw
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Originally posted by tedrbr
I'd disagree..... big buff missions like this in-game usually start well behind front lines.... that big long DAR usually catches someone's attention, and after word gets out about these missions, you'll see plenty of interceptors coming up... no matter the altitude.
yes and no
i saw a dar bar the moment it upped once... that island map, A11 (right bottom homeland) upped a huge dar.
i straight away started a 190a8 mission, only I joined this mission...... then 45minutes later our dar went down any every one was pissing and moaning about lack of defence and milkrunners........:rolleyes:
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Ohhh.... escort.... droooooll.....
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Originally posted by FiLtH
With practice ted I hope to see that. But just staying within 100 of the lead plane will be a start. If the lead maintains a 45 manifold or so, it allows others to catch it if they stray. It takes a bit of concentration to fly a long mission close.
As far as bombing, I'm thinking full salvo with the proper delay set, and dropping when the lead does. Hence the need for close formation at drop. That way the pilots can concentrate on holding formation and not getting all separated, which always ruins it.
Agree with holding a lower MAN and RPM setting on lead. I usually lower MAN and RPM on runs to increase accuracy by eliminating the inherent climb of B-24's and B-17's.... but also important to hold formation together. I've been in some runs where once formed, they open back up to the firewall, but if there are any turns en route, the formation tends to seperate again. The few I've run I leave the lead at one setting throughout. A few pilots get a little impatient, and some follow the old adage that "speed is life" or "speed is armor", but a good formation is much more effective defensively than having the throttles up against the gates.
There are always those that wander AFK for a few minutes, and drift, they need the formation kept at steady, lower-than-full-speed to help them get back into the box. "Turrent turns" easier to conduct than Land J keys for those that can. J&L keys for fine tuning. Final turn and level well before over the target. Not so much concentration as cooperation and (lot's of) patience and the right knowledge, IMHO.
Full salvo probably good on one area target with smaller group. A larger group gives you more tactical options..... say, 1/2 to 1/3rd of a salvo per target. A bomber leader can set up "lanes" - far left, inside left, middle, inside right, far right - to correspond to each pilot's location within the box (front to back, left to right) - as well as "spans" for each "lane" - first half, far half, first third, middle third, and so forth - for example, on a city, the first third of the formation is responsible for the first 1/3rd of the target area. The middle of the box target the middle third, the trail planes the far third. On the ground, you get a rolling bomb wave effect straight through the target.
The appropriate salvo and delay can be a trick to get right, with various pilot numbers and plane types.
I know in WWII, they all dropped with the lead, but they also would have far more bombers in the air over a similarly sized, but far less well defined, target (a large brown square on a green field...hmmmmm).... you can adjust to the game dynamics and still look good doing it, as well as become highly effective.
That tactical capability has a strategic value: Depending on the zone involved, you can hit a city to reduce resup of factories, then a factory or two or three to limit resup of bases in that zone. The effects can last hours, unlike the 15 minutes a hangar stays flat, or base strats getting resupped in an hour or less.
A thought..... after a few of these runs, can you imagine a box of Ar234's making the run sometime? That would be wild. S.A.C. :t
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edit... arena limitation may hit this idea..... plenty of times I was unable to get into the arena I wanted, because of the caps, so the "when and where" may need to be a little flexible, with a fall back position in case the primary arena is full.
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I'm just wondering what sort of target would need that many buffs
dropping on it? Unless you plan on doing the historical hit percentage
thing as well.
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I'm in for this. Frankly, I'll be wanting to try both ends of this stick. Flying in the mass bomber stream, and also trying to intercept one.
Ought to be a blast.
EagleDNY
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Rino, no target can take that much ord. Overkill will be the order of the day. Other than putting the majority of bombs on the target selected, the most important thing is to get there and back without being all strung out and scattered.
Next thing ya know someone goes down. Someone yells I'll grab a goon...guys auger for a fighter and the whole thing is a fiasco. Thats why the emphasis on formation keeping, and the light emphasis on the actual bomb effects. Tons on target is what we are looking for only.
*Also, we will all meet in the lobby on the night of the mission. From there we will select a a late war arena that can support our group. If both arenas can't take us as a group, then we can plan on using MidWar arena for the mission.
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Id like to put together a small box formation tonight. If anyone else in the knights is on, look me up. Floatsup. This is just mission orientated. Im on east coast, so I usually log on around 7 PM EST. My squad usually gets on around 9 PM EST. So Im with them after that. But if anyone around look me up thanx.
T
Cheers
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Sounds very cool. Hopefully it will be Eastern timezone friendly! Please!
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Mmm I will be able to use the WGr. 21 rockets again!!!:aok
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Rino, no target can take that much ord. Overkill will be the order of the day. Other than putting the majority of bombs on the target selected, the most important thing is to get there and back without being all strung out and scattered.
You could always line up 2 strat targets or 2 fields or a combination of those...
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At most Id like a primary and secondary target to choose from...but dropping a bunch of bases moves away from the realistic for me. Im as gamey as the next guy, but this I'd like to try to keep it mostly realistic and totally thump a target whatever it may be.
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If you would be so kind as to PM the following please sir....
Arena...
Base of departure
Time of departure
Target alt.
Type of Buffs
Target heading
Number of buffs
and any other info you think we may need.....and I'll supply the intercept / targets for you.
:lol
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ill be up for escorting u guys in my stang perfect and historically accurate lol ;)
unless u r flying for a non rook nation then count on seeing my .50 cals ablazing at your cockpits :t
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Redtop, please keep an eye on this forum for something along the lines of "ALERT- AH BOMB WING MISSION" for a thread title.
Theres too many guys for me to PM...wish you could make PM lists and mass pm.
All or almost all the info u requested will be in the alert thread when I make it. Expect something around the weekend.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
At most Id like a primary and secondary target to choose from...but dropping a bunch of bases moves away from the realistic for me. Im as gamey as the next guy, but this I'd like to try to keep it mostly realistic and totally thump a target whatever it may be.
Considering the wish to keep a formation, and go for some historical accuracy in a buff raid, hitting a bunch of bases won't make much sense, unless you plan to carpet bomb them. That *IS* a bit a waste of ord, and capability, in-game. Might look pretty, might be "acurate" as the game can be to RL, it will make a lot of noise, but serves little purpose unless there is a follow up force against those bases. Hangars down for 15 minutes, strats probably under an hour. And if these missions are percieved as no threat, less chance they will get intercepted, which is part of the fun.
Suitable in-game carpet bomb targets include; cities, factories, and towns. Enough B17's loaded with 250# bombs could probably take out up to three such sights, dropping 1/3 their load per sight. 4 flights of B-17's can level a town in one pass with full salvos easily. A large formation should be able to wipe out three strat sites easily enough.
(edit: guess you could carpet bomb the valley in Tank Town too.... give them boys a moonscape to play in....)
Cities resup factories and HQ, factories resup bases. Even here, unless there are base strat strikes in the zone of the cities and factories hit later, the effect is minimal. Cities and factories do stay down for 3 hours, unless resupped at least.
Essencially, you can restrict the offensive operations in a zone by hitting the strats en mass, and then follow up attacks on the bases later, or at least in this effort support other offensive operations.
A large buff could hit the strats at many bases with some effect... all fuel, ord, troop, ack,.... but you either carpet bomb 1 or 2 bases to keep the formation, or you assign targets, salvos, etc.... in which case you can hit a half dozen bases or more, if you have the pilots..... but the formation will creep and wander as pilots line up on assigned targets. This goes for HQ raids as well.
It is a game, with game mechanics and dynamics. You can still get a reasonably "historic" flight, and still serve some purpose in-game.
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I'd like to give it a try
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I can definitely do this!
What arena is this to take place in again?
Good job Filth!
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One of the main late war preferably. If however we all can't get in one, we will use the mid war as a backup plan.
HOWEVER...we will meet in the lobby before we decide so we can make sure everyone is accounted for.
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Sounds like a blast!
It might be a FPS problem, but what the hell. When the mission goes knight I am in! When it is not, I will be looking for ya in my 190 A8:t
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Just checked a couple things to be sure.
1. FiLtH need not settle on an arena until that night. The find ".f FiLtH" command will work in any arena.... the Lobby too, but mine tends to freeze up on me when I'm in there..... So long as the players have 2 or three names to key on with the "find" command in text buffer ... 2 or 3 that arrive in the arena maybe 30 minutes prior to launch time or more..... we can meet up as required.
This means he can decide which arena has the space for us. He could also decide to jump in on the losing side... say Country 1 is being mauled by Country 2's "Horde", we can run a mission from Country 1 to 2 to distract them, throw them off balance, or limit their offensive capabilities.
2. Ran a couple B-17's in the TA. Each time was about 18,500 feet in alt. Running 50% fuel, 40 MAN, 25 RPM, 245 to 257 mph at drop.
12 500# bombs, salvo 12, delay 0.50 almost crossed a radar strat target area (dropped as I crossed first structure along path N to S) --- about 95% coverage along that lane.
16 250# bombs, salvo 16, delay 0.40 also nearly crossed a factory strat target completely - 95% - when released at first structure, with a little more overlap in blasts.
The width of the blast damage almost covers 1/4 of the target width. 4 bomber flights wide would be the minimum to be effective. 5 flights would be better for overlap.
Ergo; 4 or 5 flights of B-17's with 250's or 500's with full salvo can flatten 1 strat factory target. Similar damage to a city (at least knocked down well below 50%). 4 or 5 lanes wide.
8 to 10 flights can salvo half their load over two such targets with good effect. 4 or 5 lanes wide, 2 spans deep.
12 to 15 flights can salvo roughly 1/3rd of their load over three targets. 4 to 5 lanes and 3 spans deep.
16 to 20 flights can salvo 1/4 of their loads over 4 targets..... beyond that, I think you are just dropping more ord on each target.... trying to break up a target's lanes more than into 1/4 deep spans get's a little tricky with that many pilots.
The goal of 36 pilots would be a huge amount of ord. And a frame rate killer to be sure. Just can't see gathing all that resource to dump on one target only. But that's just me... I like my effort to produce an effect, and if these runs are considered no threat, you limit the opposition.
(Of course, 36 flights of buffs could turn TT into the Valley of Death and a Virtual Moonscape. You'd have a captive audience. And plenty of reaction from all sides..... um.... Real screen rate killer too.... all those craters....might crash the server......)
Not sure how you plan to spawn a group this large on one runway, or if you plan on coordinating different groups to meet up en route (that would be a darbar to see..... three full sectors headed your way, eventually combining into one...... Or if you set up multiple missions, each with a launch time 1 minute apart for each squadron or group on the same runway.
It any case, you create a strike force capable of carpet bombing 1 to 4 targets in a zone. Pick targets of importance, and go against the most numberous populated country, and you should generate some resistence for a good fight. Managing such a formation. Keeping it together under course correction turns, enemy attacks, putting your ord on target, and getting home intact is the challenge.
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Originally posted by uberhun
Sounds like a blast!
It might be a FPS problem, but what the hell. When the mission goes knight I am in! When it is not, I will be looking for ya in my 190 A8:t
Oh! Yes!! Target rich environment! :aok
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Great info Ted, have it on hand for friday night.
WHat Id like to see us do is have the bombers up from 2-3 different bases and converge at a point on the map. Then strike off to the target. Goes the same for any escort we get.
If we do have alot of bombers, we could also have each hit a different target. We'll see what happens.
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Sign me up!
(If you need e-mails: Echo5dash7@hotmail.com)
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Hi Reynolds...no need to sign anywhere. Just keep an eye out for missions for Bomb Wing. As a matter of fact, the mission alert is up..see other thread. Its Friday night Dec 8th 9pm et...meet in lobby.
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what field filth, where ya hedin? what alt?
just askin:rolleyes:
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Training Arena , A3, heading north, 5k :P
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Originally posted by SKJohn
I'd be willing to bet my squad members - The Skyknights - would be interested in this. I'll post it on the squad website.
Ditto for me.
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IN
Edit
oops just seen I am too late
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Originally posted by Stang
Count me in, I miss the huge bomber missions of old.
Shedder :furious
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one of the best ideas I've seen in a while..