Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Widewing on December 08, 2006, 08:21:13 PM

Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: Widewing on December 08, 2006, 08:21:13 PM
Few WWII vintage aircraft are as striking as the Tigercat. VMF(N)-533 began operating F7F-2Ns out of Okinawa the day before Japan announced its surrender. I would not want to be patrolling over Japan in my Ki-61 and see one of these beasties coming my way.

Tigercat racing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1kkilBoA3I&mode=related&search=)

F7F flybys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbkhml1-a1s&mode=related&search=)

My regards,

Widewing
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: Wolfala on December 08, 2006, 08:37:45 PM
Saw a Tigercat for sale on Controller about a year ago, guy wanted 700,000. Dunno its condition, assume it needs some work to go for that cheap. Would be a nice goal in life to own such a bird.

Wolf
Title: interesting reading from Corky Meyer...
Post by: humble on December 08, 2006, 08:50:41 PM
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3897/is_200208/ai_n9120620
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: parin on December 08, 2006, 09:15:59 PM
I saw that at Chino :D
Title: Re: interesting reading from Corky Meyer...
Post by: Widewing on December 08, 2006, 09:48:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by humble
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3897/is_200208/ai_n9120620


Corwin Meyer is an interesting character. From the article:

"I will tell you of a totally unexpected and earth-shaking discussion that I had with the Navy's premier test pilot, Capt. Fred M. Trapnell. It will explain why all Tigercat pilots liked the airplane in spite of its failure to meet several important Navy SR-38D specifications for flight-handling characteristics.

For many years, Capt. Trapnell was the top test pilot in the Navy; his word was law, both in Navy and industry flight-test circles. An example of his influence: he came for a three-hour flight evaluation of the first XF6F-3 Hellcat soon after its first flight and he gave the official Navy go-ahead for mass production on that day!"

Trapnell's comments on the F7F:

 "The excess power of its two engines is wonderful for aerobatics; the cockpit planning and the forward visibility in the carrier approach is the best in any fighter ever built; the tricycle landing gear allows much faster pilot checkouts; the roll with the power boost rudder is faster than the ailerons; and it has a greater range than any fighter in inventory." Again, he was absolutely right. As he climbed up the ladder to the cockpit, he turned around, grinned and told me, "It's the best damn fighter I've ever flown."

Trapnell also listed the Tigercat's deficiencies: "The over-cooling of the engines; a lack of longitudinal stability; excessively high dihedral rolling effect with rudder input; the high, minimum single-engine control speed, etc."

Alas, nothing is perfect....

My regards,

Widewing
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: Jebus on December 09, 2006, 12:20:34 PM
That is a big Aircraft Widewing.  Is F7f bigger or the same size as a P-38.  

Also what was is its expected speed, alt, range, ect ect.
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: MiloMorai on December 09, 2006, 01:27:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Jebus
That is a big Aircraft Widewing.  Is F7f bigger or the same size as a P-38.  

Also what was is its expected speed, alt, range, ect ect.
Google is nice to use.

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/aircraft/tigercat.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f7f.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F7F_Tigercat
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: gripen on December 09, 2006, 01:57:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Wolfala
Saw a Tigercat for sale on Controller about a year ago, guy wanted 700,000. Dunno its condition, assume it needs some work to go for that cheap. Would be a nice goal in life to own such a bird.


Probably something that is not flyable; maybe without engines?

gripen
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: Debonair on December 09, 2006, 03:53:58 PM
i think maybe WW2 planes go for a premium
for example, controller presently lists an FM-2 for $950k, but the two Sea Furies both go for under $700
(zOMG CHEAP!!:O :O :O :O !!1)
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: Stoney74 on December 09, 2006, 04:07:47 PM
Without a doubt, the most beautiful plane at the races.  And, there's nothing that compares to the sound of the two Wasps running full bore.
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: Guppy35 on December 10, 2006, 02:00:57 AM
They were still using Tigercats as fire bombers not that long ago.
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: Debonair on December 10, 2006, 03:12:55 AM
Privateers & A-26s too
forwhatever reasons B-24s were worth a bazillion as warbirds & Privateers were not:huh :huh :huh :confused:
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: pipz on December 10, 2006, 07:47:50 AM
Hey thats a bad azzz lookin plane.Is there any material on how it compared to other warbirds?Just curious how it would handle in combat.Can I take it the weapons would have been pretty deadly?

Pipz
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: Widewing on December 10, 2006, 09:54:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by pipz
Hey thats a bad azzz lookin plane.Is there any material on how it compared to other warbirds?Just curious how it would handle in combat.Can I take it the weapons would have been pretty deadly?

Pipz


Performance was as good or better than the F8F-1 in several areas.

F7F-2N night fighter version, with pilot and radar operator, at full load (less external stores), including 425 gallons of fuel.

Speed at SL: 362 mph
Speed at 21,900 feet: 445 mph
Initial climb: 4,540 ft/min (when flying with 200 gallons of fuel, climb exceeded 5,000 ft/min.

When tested at the Fighter Conference in 1944, it was stated that the F7F could defeat the F6F-5 in a dogfight. Biggest complaints were poor rearward vision, excessive dihedral effect and a lack of longitudinal stability. Later versions had increased rudder area and bulged canopy glass.

Relatively high coefficient of lift, combined with a low wing loading resulted in excellent turning ability (close to the Hellcat)

Armament was four 20mm cannon AND four .50 cal MGs.

Acceleration was faster than the F8F... E retention was insane. Pilots complained that they couldn't slow it down fast enough.

The Tigercat was used extensively in Korea as a night fighter. It proved very effective.

If Japan did not surrender when it did, they would have faced both the F7F and F8F in ever increasing numbers. By October, at least 6 F8F-2 and 3 F7F-2N squadrons would have been fully operational. At the time of the surrender, one F7F-2N squadron was on Okinawa and two or three F8F squadrons were in-route to Japan on carriers. Had the Navy so desired, Grumman could have begun deliveries much sooner and both types would have been in combat by the spring of 1945. As it was, the Navy did not place high priority on either as the F6F-5 was deemed adequate both as a day and night fighter.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: pipz on December 10, 2006, 11:21:15 AM
Thanks for that Widewing
 Pretty interesting stuff.I am amazed at how fast aviation developed from the time WW2 started till its end.I have just begun reading Bodies book on the p38 and its realy hammering that point home to me.Considering the state of Japanese aviation at the end of the war your rite.I wouldnt have wanted to be be in some sloppy constructed Ki goin up againts those cats!

"A bandit at your six is better than no bandit at all"
Pipz
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: KTM520guy on December 10, 2006, 01:43:51 PM
Thanks for posting the videos! There is nothing better than the sound of round motors running flat out.

:aok
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: Capt.Joe on December 10, 2006, 07:25:06 PM
Oh i love seeing Big BossMan at the Races each year!
Would an F7 fit on CV in AH?
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: FBplmmr on December 11, 2006, 06:55:35 PM
IN the Sept issue of Air & Space magazine Grumman has the short "Centerfold" article.  I'll PDF it at work tomorrow and link to it in case someone wants to take a look @ it
:aok :aok

I like the blue "Cats".
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: FBplmmr on December 12, 2006, 04:44:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FBplmmr
IN the Sept issue of Air & Space magazine Grumman has the short "Centerfold" article.  I'll PDF it at work tomorrow and link to it in case someone wants to take a look @ it
:aok :aok

I like the blue "Cats".


here is the link   the link (http://www.speedyshare.com/282564870.html)
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: Wolfala on December 12, 2006, 04:45:48 PM
First to download - hoorah!
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: morfiend on December 12, 2006, 05:44:35 PM
As I recall,ole yeller was shot by Tommy.... The Boss shoulda opened up on that obviously rabid P51..........



 Hmmm WW could you explain "dihedral effect". What exactly does this do to the A/C.:aok
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: Widewing on December 12, 2006, 07:23:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by morfiend
.
 Hmmm WW could you explain "dihedral effect". What exactly does this do to the A/C.:aok


In this case it tended to make the aircraft a handful in crosswind landings due to excessive roll when skidding. Plus a tendency towards a dutch roll due to a lack of longitudinal stability. The F7F-1 was not a good plane for low-time fighter jocks. Later versions were much improved by a significant increase in rudder area.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: karayaone88 on December 13, 2006, 10:51:49 AM
If you live near Kalamazoo Michigan you can see one at the Airzoo. I work there ask for Tim and I'll give you the dime tour.
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: Wolfala on December 13, 2006, 12:14:01 PM
WW,

I must confess, I read your blog and came across this little gem and had to share it with everyone.


---

I pointed out that while the biggest **** did, indeed, go down first, it was always the smallest **** that splashes your ass. This invoked all kinds of corollaries and analogies involving DMV clerks up through attorneys.

One doubter inquired how I could prove my assertion.

“It’s quite simple, actually. Big turds, by the nature of their size are much closer to the water than marble-sized poopettes. Thus, they enter the water without much fanfare. On the other hand, the poopettes must fall eight to ten inches to reach the water. Inasmuch as it is gravity at work here, the longer an object free-falls, the greater the velocity imparted into it. Therefore, the small **** will strike the water at a much higher speed, causing a splash and resulting damp anus."
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: VVV on December 13, 2006, 01:45:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by parin
I saw that at Chino :D

So did I! The flyby's where absolutley awesome. Did you go this year or last?
Title: F7F Tigercat.... beautiful
Post by: Masherbrum on December 19, 2006, 02:06:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by karayaone88
If you live near Kalamazoo Michigan you can see one at the Airzoo. I work there ask for Tim and I'll give you the dime tour.


I have been there 3 times already, next time I go out there, I will let you know.