Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: cav58d on December 09, 2006, 09:01:22 PM
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This is a very graphic plane crash. Let this be a learning tool to all of the GA pilots on these boards, and a deadly reminder to correctly do a weight and balance of your aircraft. If its outside of limitations, DONT GO!. It's unfortunate that this accident that could have been averted, concluded with the large loss of life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWC2XJYgcJU
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Wow.
Just...wow.
IN before the MP's arrive.
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yeah well...didn't watch the whole video.
I could already see the outcome of that one.
Do your W&B people! (for us fling wing types it's an absolute requirement)
proper W&B saves lives, it's a proven fact!
Thanks for the reminder Cav.
PS! Mods, don't mod this!
Lots of real life pilots here...it's a good reality check.
Please Hitech? One flingwinger to a plank driver?
sometimes the truth hurts.
RTR
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I'm not using this video as a joke, or to mock the lives that are lost. I am not saying this is "cool". I am posting this video as an educational tool. Many of us on here fly single engine aircraft, and this is a very realistic scenario. If anything, this is a very serious reminder of what can happen if any of us slip up in in preflight process...I don't see any reason for the mods to take this down.
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an unfortunate event. Yes folks, make sure your yokes are well centered in the egg.
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I make sure Whiskey & Beer is on prior to every flight.
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make sure Whiskey & Beer is on prior to every flight.
Amen Brother!
RTR
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It was said early on. Aviation is unforgiving. There are often no second chances.
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Originally posted by cav58d
I'm not using this video as a joke, or to mock the lives that are lost. I am not saying this is "cool". I am posting this video as an educational tool. Many of us on here fly single engine aircraft, and this is a very realistic scenario. If anything, this is a very serious reminder of what can happen if any of us slip up in in preflight process...I don't see any reason for the mods to take this down.
there are other places you can share it with your friends, not this BB
im kind of sick of posting this kind of **** over here
mostly by you and im writing to Skuzzy to ban you!
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since it was in columbia...
probably drug cartels overloading there "shipment"
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Originally posted by ramzey
there are other places you can share it with your friends, not this BB
im kind of sick of posting this kind of **** over here
mostly by you and im writing to Skuzzy to ban you!
wahhhh wahhhhhh WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH:cry :cry :cry :cry OHH BOOO HOOOO :cry :cry :cry
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QUOTE]Originally posted by ramzey
there are other places you can share it with your friends, not this BB
im kind of sick of posting this kind of **** over here
mostly by you and im writing to Skuzzy to ban you! [/QUOTE]
Ramzey- So you have no problem pretending to kill people in simulated air combat, but when someone post a video, explaining it is for educational purposes and just may help save a life because it makes them think twice you complain?
Like I said....... WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...Now shut the hell up
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I got no problem with it. I've seen enough crashes because of overgross and bad weight and balance that it should serve as a place marker for what not to do.
But then again i've flown with Cav and know how capable and safety minded a driver he is.
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outside of the fact that it Colombia, hot and high, and a 172 with 3 adults, a child and an O2 bottle, what makes you think they were overloaded?
At the beginning of the clip, the pilot told the hysterically crying mother to get her foot off the rudder pedal. If she stomped her left footrest right as they got airborne, the results would be similar, no?
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The aircraft was most definitely in a crab on take off. I didn't see any sign of significant wind to cause that. Passenger interferrence with the ruder pedal is very likely a contributing factor. The plane was veering to the right not the left however.
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so , person who claimed airplane was overweight have no clue about flying?
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me no sprekkin ze splanish, how many people lost their lives in that crack em up?
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quite sad...
The video was presented by Noticas RCN, a news segment from Canal RCN of Colombia
The plane was operated by Patrulla Aérea Colombiana (Colombian Air Patrol), a non-profit organization that helps people with medical assistance on remote places of Colombia.
There was 4 people on board: The pilot and chief of medical staff, another doctor, a little boy recently operated, and the mother of the boy. All died instantly except the pilot, who died a few day later due to the extensive burnings on his body.
May all they rest in peace.
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Thnx ball, yeah it is sad. Flying tem aeroplanes is very dangerous biddness, or it can be if all safety regime not followed properly. Lots people die in tem aeroplanes over teh years ....
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from what it seems it was a combination of weight and crosswind: -
March 21, 2006
An aiplane from the Patrulla Aerea (Air Patrol) crashed in Mosquera, Nariño, a small and remote town in the south west part of Colombia. Immediately after takeoff, the plane, a Cessna, was pushed by heavy crosswind, and crashed into a house, killing a boy, his mother and a doctor on board. The pilot, Rafael Arenas, aged 42, who had been working for 10 years on the Air Patrol, survived with burns on 90% of his body, but died later in the Intensive Care unit of El Valle Universitary hospital.
The Air Patrol is a Colombian ONG, created and staffed by pilots and doctors to bring medical care to people in the most abandoned regions of the country.
It is also discussed here: http://airdisaster.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78541&page=1&pp=25
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Don't know much but it looked like he had an awful lot of flap. Was he trying to get off a short runway or was he trying to compensate for being overloaded or a combination of the two? It just seems like if he had gained some more speed before liftoff he would have been OK. His sideways drift appeared to me to be caused by the fact that he was trying to climb right at or just above stall speed with full flaps; those two conditions not allowing him to gain airspeed.
Does the 172's useful load of 893 pounds include 56 gallons of fuel? I really don't think he was that overloaded.
But then again, I really don't know anything. Just making an observation.
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i agree..looked like way to much flap on takeoff..Tragic.
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Originally posted by sluggish
Does the 172's useful load of 893 pounds include 56 gallons of fuel? I really don't think he was that overloaded.
That wasn't full flaps, probably more like 10 degrees, 20 max. Would be correct to use flaps on a soft field takeoff.
I am personally convinced the aircraft was overloaded, not sure if there was interference with the rudder or any other flight control.
I never allowed a full 4 people in a 172 unless it was a cool/cold day or my tanks weren't full. The 172 is a great airplane, but it has it's limits. I took 2 teenagers for a ride one hot sticky day, and the climb rate was not great, with 4 on board I would have really been sweating the takeoff and climb.
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Got into a glider once as PIC taking my 225lb brother up for a ride. I weighed about the same, so we were right at max payload for the ship. The plane had been up earlier in the day, so I did a quick pre-flight. As soon as we released, I knew we had a problem. Was fighting the stick to keep nose up. Got into a strong thermal with other ships and was struggling to maintain alt while they walked away from me. Barely was able to stay up for .5hr and started landing prep. Ship was sinking like a rock and had stick in my belly to get any kind of flair. Was a fast landing, but rolled to a stop fine. Got out and told the guy running ops about the flight. He mentioned the previous passenger was a child...we both say "ballast" at the same time. Looked under the front seat and sure enough, there was 30lb of lead. CG had to have been a good foot forward of limit.
Definitely added checking for ballast on my checklist.
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Noticing the Cowl Flaps up front - its a 182.
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Maybe wind was in wrong direction..?
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First off, unless my aircraft reognition is way off. That was a C182, a bit more power than a 172.
I saw that video before and to me it looks more like a typical density altitude type accident. It never seems to leave ground effect, or at least does so at a very low airspeed and high AOA. Even if a light aircraft is not overloaded for normal conditions and the C of G is within limits, under certain conditons an aircraft will fly forever, 20 feet off the ground on the verge of stalling.
As it was Columbia, we can assume it was hot. The wind looked calm or light. We can see it was a rough dirt strip, possibly at altitude. I imagine the density altitude was several thousand feet above the actual altitude. Many people don't realise how much an aircraft's performance falls off at altitude and how much runway even a light aircraft needs to get airborne on hot days. Combine the two and the result it what we see in the video.
According to my 172 manual, (the only one I have), take off distance to 50 feet at sea level with max weight and 10deg C is 918 feet. At 7000 feet and 30 degC it's 2221. An extra 1303 feet. That's on a paved runway with a new aircraft. That difference is enough to kill you.
I could be wrong and maybe somewhere there is an official analysis of the accident. But it's at least a contributory factor.
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Density altitude may be the answer, and has been pretty well covered, but I'd like to take a shot at an alternate theory for a moment, back to rudder interference. The pilot does tell the mother to keep her feet off the rudder during the loading sequence, and to my eye, the plane doesn't appear to stay on the runway, it looks like it drifted 30+ degrees to the right while in ground effect. If the pilot was shouting/debugging the rudder problem during a soft-field takeoff, it might exhibit what we saw.
Just speculation, I'd like to see an official report too.
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I think flap setting looked ok. He gets the thing cross-controlled at takeoff. What he needs to being doing at that point is accelerating in ground effect and the huge drag that that condition introduces is working against him. The thing that sealed his fate was attempting to horse it up out of ground effect before it was going to fly. My gut feeling is that overloaded or not it probably would have flown with a little better technique (unless there were obstacles that were not apparent in the video). I base that on the fact that it looked like it was able to balloon pretty high before it starts to settle. I took off in an overloaded Ayres Thrush about ten years ago and it took me six miles to get to 200' agl. Luckily that part of South Dakota is flat as a fritter. Increasing back pressure dind'nt make me ballon, it just made the stall horn tweet.
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just to let you know they O2 bottles aint light at all.
Other than that I have nothing usfull to contribute to the thread except taht Ramzy is a baby.
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Why the hell were there people standing right on the runway???
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Prolly didn't even know a plane was taking off...Pretty stupid of the pilot to even attempt taking off an aircraft with hundreds of people infront of him.
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ay... que puta.....
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Originally posted by RightF00T
Why the hell were there people standing right on the runway???
its a third world country, it probably doubles as their domicile.