Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on December 10, 2006, 02:52:59 PM
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He died today, 91 years young. A great military man who saved his nation from becoming like Cuba and gave up his 17 year rule democratically when the time came for Chile to move on.
God bless!
(http://www.chile-erleben.de/Bilder/Pinochet.jpg)
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My trollmetre reading is : Out Of Range.
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How many people do you have to kill/imprison to qualify as a 'strongman'?
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A killer, a torturer, a liar, a crook and a ridiculous coward, but first and foremost a traitor. I'm glad he's rotting, long overdue.
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Isn't he Whining and Dieing...errr Wine'n and Dine'n with Hitler and Stalin now... oppps make a place for Castro.... he's parkin the Hearse now.
Mac
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Originally posted by Neubob
How many people do you have to kill/imprison to qualify as a 'strongman'?
Until your friends kill you?
"Et tu Brutus?"
:D
Mac
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Originally posted by takeda
A killer, a torturer, a liar, a crook and a ridiculous coward, but first and foremost a traitor. I'm glad he's rotting, long overdue.
You're Spanish right?
Why did Spain arrest Pinochet and not arrest Castro when both were visiting Spain at the same time?
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My guess is that Castro, as a leader in power at the time, has some sort of diplomatic immunity where Pinochet, as a former national leader, was a private citizen.
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I still say the most luckiest leader alive is Fidel Castro. This guy survived thousand attempts by the CIA to kill him:D
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Intersting reading on Pinochet. Again, clearly a great man - a hero.
http://www.fed-soc.org/Publications/practicegroupnewsletters/internationalnews/pinochet-internv3i1.htm
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
My guess is that Castro, as a leader in power at the time, has some sort of diplomatic immunity where Pinochet, as a former national leader, was a private citizen.
Pinochet was a Senator for life.
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Yep USA will go to great lengths to support leaders who show some slight pro US-ness... at the expense of the opinions of the masses (hint hint: Iran):aok :aok :aok
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Originally posted by ByeBye
Pinochet was a Senator for life.
"The investigation into the family's finances began in 2004, after a US Senate probe into Riggs Bank found that Gen Pinochet held secret accounts worth US$8m there.
Further investigations found that the former ruler held more US$26m in foreign accounts.
He is accused of failing to pay nearly US$2.5m in taxes between 1980 and 2004, and is also being investigated for embezzlement of state funds.
The courts have stripped Gen Pinochet of the legal immunity he enjoys as a former president in several cases, including human rights ones, but he has yet to face trial."
Yep, sounds about right for a Senator!
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Again, clearly a great man - a hero.
Often misunderstood and well ahead of its time.
He'd do better in Balkans though. Perfect fit.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Often misunderstood and well ahead of its time.
He'd do better in Balkans though. Perfect fit.
Maybe he could take Ted Kennedy with him?
Mac
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it's funny how people as well as the media like to use " Dictator" for Pinochet and "President" for Fidel Castro...
:rofl
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Dictators...both :D
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I think he's developed a new leadership category: the Pinochet Noir.
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great dude (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet#Suppression_of_opposition) indeed...
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Very good reading, thanks!
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I find it unjust that Pinochet is getting such good praises by Grun while Saddam (who kept the fundamentalists at bay during years) is labeled a murderer. :cry
Btw GH, don't forget that dear old Adolf H. did also an awesome work against the commies. Too bad the U.S. dems were against him for this PC crap with the Jews.
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Only on the AH boards could a dictator like Pinochet actually get a WTG simply because he wasRight-wing... :huh
I guess you can be an oppressor and kill multitudes of people... just as long as you're killing the "right" ones...
I really don't understand some of you guys sometimes.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
You're Spanish right?
Why did Spain arrest Pinochet and not arrest Castro when both were visiting Spain at the same time?
Uh? When was Pinochet arrested while visiting Spain? Geography is hard, but London isn't in Spain, you know?. Still one of them was wanted for mudering Spanish citizens and the other one is not.
They can reshoot this one in bloody hell quite soon anyways:
(http://www.escolar.net/MT/archives/pinochet-castro.jpg)
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Pinochet was lucky, he died without being sentenced, I'm afraid Kissinger will be just as lucky.
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Originally posted by takeda
Uh? When was Pinochet arrested while visiting Spain? Geography is hard, but London isn't in Spain, you know?. Still one of them was wanted for mudering Spanish citizens and the other one is not.
They can reshoot this one in bloody hell quite soon anyways:
(http://www.escolar.net/MT/archives/pinochet-castro.jpg)
Takeda ur right, Pinochet was in london when a socialist/commie Spanish judge asked the UK government to arrest him for extradition. I'm sure the commie judge was planning to arrest the commie dictator castro too but never got around to it.
And thsts a cool picture of Pinocet and Castro, prolly from the first period of Allene's rule in Chile when Castro was a frequent guest of the commie basrard Allende. Thankfully Pinocet saw where it was going and put a stop to it and saved his country from becoming like Cuba.
Dynomite,
Pinocet gers a WTG from mme for killing commies and stopping a commust revolution and violent commie imsurgency in chile. In 17 yeares of rukle the worst his opponents could say was the he killed maybe 3500 people. This averages out to ~200 per year and statistically most were military aged men, confirmed leftist viloent radical fighters killede in the first few years of the Pinochet coup when the commies were fighting back hardest. Its not multitudes and it was not indescriminat. 200 per year on average onver 17 years to defeat a commnist insurency - think about it. The US kills that many insurgents in Iraq every week.
Great man!
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He could have resigned and be a candidate at the elections, because Chile was, oh, a democracy.
If you really believe all that claptrap you tried to type, well, you are well beyond any kind of meaningful conversation on this matter.
So from this card-carrying member of the Socialist Party (oooh scary!) you'll hear the same the day Castro buys the farm as I say today about this POS "General Pinochet": Good riddance, one less to go.
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(http://www.horrordvds.com/reviews/a-m/jaws/jaws_shot6l.jpg)
You're gonna need a bigger server
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I guess once you've rationalised Jasenovac (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp) as justifiable, stuff like Villa Grimaldi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Grimaldi) is easy to accept.
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Momus, plese show when or how have I "rationalized" Jasenovac?
as for this Villa Grimaldi death complex - sure sounds like it was the next auschvitc and makes Pinochet the devil.
"Villa Grimaldi was a complex of buildings used for the interrogation and torture of political prisoners by DINA, the Chilean secret police, during the dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet. The complex was located in Peñalolén, in the outskirts of Santiago, and was in operation from mid-1974 to mid-1978. About 5,000 detainees were brought to Villa Grimaldi during this time, at least 240 of whom were "disappeared" or killed by DINA."
240 radical; cpmmuinst agents killed during a 4 year period during a bloody civil war. 60 a year.
Heck I think the state of texas kills as many on death row.
What is it about you leftists thats makes miniscuke intallatyions like this place or gitmo bay even so unbearably evil while you commie potatos so easiy ignore the massive crimes and death campaigns of yoir socalist brethern like castro?
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Mmm, "volent radical communist" Victor Hara: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Hara#His_death
Breaking his fingers was definetly a good idea to stop him from playing a guitar. Playing a guitar is a violent communistic act, isn't it? :rolleyes:
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You sure like to use the word "commie" alot Grun :D
"commie potatos"... lol.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Often misunderstood and well ahead of its time.
He'd do better in Balkans though. Perfect fit.
We have enough good/bad politicians here
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Any bets?
GRUNHERZ thinks Hitler was the angel Gabriel.
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He meant good, but had a bit of a bad temper, those commie potatos can get on your nerves.
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Well Grun, if you're going to take a position so sympathetic to a mass murderer whilst displaying so little insight into what really happened in the Chile of that era in your argument apart from "Yay, dead commies, HURRRR..", you'll have to forgive people for inferring that you've an inherited cultural proclivity for the killing of political opponents.
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^
what he said.
(oops better go hide in secret compartment behind dresser in wall)
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Mothers Of The Disappeared
Midnight, our sons and daughters
Were cut down and taken from us
Hear their heartbeat
We hear their heartbeat
In the wind we hear their laughter
In the rain we see their tears
Hear their heartbeat
We hear their heartbeat
Night hangs like a prisoner
Stretched over black and blue
Hear their heartbeat
We hear their heartbeat
In the trees our sons stand naked
Through the walls our daughters cry
See their tears in the rainfall
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"It doesn't matter if he's a sonofa*****, as long as he's our sonofa*****..."
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I see Grun is still a master fisherman. Even hooked Milo and dragged him from the aircraft and vehicles forum.
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socialists don't like anyone to use the word "commie".
lazs
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6175455.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6175455.stm)
Looks like his grandson got into trouble...
:noid
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I think it's time Pinochet lead a revolution. Not Sr. Pinochet, but Jr. Pinochet. I'd love for him to put the socialists in their place again.
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hitler has a nephew that like on long island, NY:noid :noid :noid :noid
i bet those two party together.
"beer me, hitler's nephew"
"u got it pinochet, jr."
<born to be wild [/b]plays in the background>
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
He died today, 91 years young. A great military man who saved his nation from becoming like Cuba and gave up his 17 year rule democratically when the time came for Chile to move on.
God bless!
(http://www.chile-erleben.de/Bilder/Pinochet.jpg)
This has to be a troll, there's Just no way a despot like pinochet could have any supporters anywhere.
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Hawco - are you a left leaning person, a socialist or perhaps a closeted communist?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
closeted communist?
water closeted or regular closeted?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Intersting reading on Pinochet. Again, clearly a great man - a hero.
http://www.fed-soc.org/Publications/practicegroupnewsletters/internationalnews/pinochet-internv3i1.htm
Unless you were Chilean then I'm sure the description would be more like "terrorist, murderer, fascist, criminal, etc..."
ack-ack
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Hawco - are you a left leaning person, a socialist or perhaps a closeted communist?
[In September, 1973,] General Pinochet, with the assistance of the CIA
and the ITT Corporation, took over the government of Chile, bombing the
presidential palace of elected socialist Salvador Allende, and murdering him.
Victor was singing for students at the university when the whole area was
surrounded. All within were taken prisoner and marched to a large soccer stadium, Estadio Chile. For three days it was a scene of horror. Torture,
executions. An officer thought he recognized Victor, pointed at him with a
questioning look and motioning as if strumming a guitar. Victor nodded.
He was seized, taken to the center of the stadium and told to put his hands
on a table. While his friends watched in horror, rifle butts beat his hands to
bloody pulp. "All right, sing for us now, you ---," shouted the officer. [Victor
Stagg SKW apr00]
Chile was a great place unless you were one of these poor souls, or the thousands of others who dissapeared.
Conveniently ignoring the fact that Allende's government was democratically elected (on an increased majority for it's second term as well).
You are attempting to lead us to believe that the overthrow of this government and the transformation of the Santiago Stadium into a concentration camp was a legitimate and indeed beneficial twist of history for Chile and humankind? That you would suggest such a thing is abhorrent and says much about the values held within right-wing circles worldwide. Democracy is fine until such times as an attempt is made to bring about social reforms of benefit to the many as opposed to the 'elite'. Do you support Pinochet's methods?
I would suggest you read some newspaper articles which interviews survivors of Pinochet's genocide if for nothing else to gain some sense of what his rule meant in terms of human suffering.
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Hawco, thanks for answering my question. You're a communist.
And yes Chile is way better off because of Pinochet - it's a free, economically stable, prosperous and democratic nation, it's a beacon of stability and progrss in South America. He stopped Allende and his gang from turning Chilke into a disster and when the time was right, he put his rule to a vote, allowed multiparty party elections and LOST and left office quietly to the new admistration. Thats pretty neat for a despot...
Unlike say socialist wonderlands like Cuba, which use all sorts of methods "to bring about social reforms of benefit to the many as opposed to the 'elite'."
Here is some reading for you:
http://www.fed-soc.org/Publications...-internv3i1.htm
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Hawco, thanks for answering my question. You're a communist.
And yes Chile is way better off because of Pinochet - it's a free, economically stable, prosperous and democratic nation, it's a beacon of stability and progrss in South America. He stopped Allende and his gang from turning Chilke into a disster and when the time was right, he put his rule to a vote, allowed multiparty party elections and LOST and left office quietly to the new admistration. Thats pretty neat for a despot...
Unlike say socialist wonderlands like Cuba, which use all sorts of methods "to bring about social reforms of benefit to the many as opposed to the 'elite'."
Here is some reading for you:
http://www.fed-soc.org/Publications...-internv3i1.htm
thats clap trap.
Yes Chile is a healthy state if you are in the top 10% but figures show that Chile in terms of wealth distribution is one of the worst in the world, only Brazil is worse in Latin America and Chile is behind many sub Saharan nations.estimated 55% of the population are bellow the poverty line as classed by the UN.
Please show some documented cases that Allende committed human rights violations or was planning to remove democracy. Allende was a soft left of the type of British labor not a Marxist.I am not looking for facts made up by Dr strange love. Its easy to find cases to support Pinochet's murders where is your evidence for such claims you have made??
what we do know is that a democratically elected leader was removed by undemocratic forces.
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55% povery in Chile - thats crap. An outright lie - show me your source commie.
I have multiple sources thats say its in 17-18% range. Here is one.
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:Z28wIjR-l7gJ:www-wds.worldbank.org/servlet/WDSContentServer/WDSP/IB/2001/10/19/000094946_01100504033520/Rendered/PDF/multi0page.pdf+chile+poverty&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
55% povery in Chile - thats crap. An outright lie - show me your source commie.
I have multiple sources thats say its in 17-18% range. Here is one.
I think he is looking at Chavesland. Their poverty rate is almost 50 percent and growing by the year.
BTW here is another source that backs your numbers Grun.
CIAWFB (https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ci.html#Econ)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Heck I think the state of texas kills as many on death row.
Well since you brought it up...
All the trash we kill are the lowest scum on earth. My problem with the death penalty is that it is not used enough.
(YEAH ICEMAN24) :aok
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Originally posted by Krusher
I think he is looking at Chavesland. Their poverty rate is almost 50 percent and growing by the year.
BTW here is another source that backs your numbers Grun.
CIAWFB (https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ci.html#Econ)
CIA LIES! :furious :lol
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
55% povery in Chile - thats crap. An outright lie - show me your source commie.
I have multiple sources thats say its in 17-18% range. Here is one.
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:Z28wIjR-l7gJ:www-wds.worldbank.org/servlet/WDSContentServer/WDSP/IB/2001/10/19/000094946_01100504033520/Rendered/PDF/multi0page.pdf+chile+poverty&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a
Urban poverty levels were reduced in Chile from 23% to 18% between 1994 and 1998. In comparison, Uraguy's urban poverty level was reduced from 12% to 6% during that same period. Chile's achievement was due to high economic growth but did not bring any shift income distribution. Again in comparison, Uraguy had a slower economic growth but was able to reduce the gap between the rich and the poor.
So basically, in Chile the rich got richer and the poor got poorer.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
CIA LIES! :furious :lol
BTW---you're super star Pinochet authorized a terrorist action in the United States. So I guess you also support terrorism besides tyranny.
ack-ack
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It was a targeted political asasination of an individual - using a small car bomb. A well run thing IIRC, just got the bastige and one of his aides!!! Rather different than random acts of terorism like the 911 attacks, Oklahoma city or the Olympic game bombing.
Clean targeted and done with remakable restraint - just like most all the 3000 or so deaths in the 17 years difficult struggle Pinochet led against Marxist tyrany in Chile before peacefully leaving office and handing off to a democratically elected free government after losing an election in 1990.
WTG Pinochet! Best right wing military dictator ever! :aok (Or at least, its a close tie between him and Franco)
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Stop digging your own hole GRUN.
right or left wing dictator is bad in all cases.
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Simply making a clear distinction and correcting his error, straffo.
Neither is ideal, but in a cold war setting a right wing, miltary dictator with pro growth economic policy that aligned the country with the usa is infintely better for that country. Communism is the worst idea ever, and I think history has proved that.
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Well I can't disagree completly.
I still think that praising Pinochet long after the end of the cold war is bad taste.
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Originally posted by straffo
I still think that praising Pinochet long after the end of the cold war is bad taste.
No, praising hard handed conservative success is bad taste.
See: McCarthyism.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Communism is the worst idea ever, and I think history has proved that.
Well.. not as bad as lutefisk and muslim fundamentalist regimes but its up there.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Communism is the worst idea ever, and I think history has proved that.
all hail the democratically progressive economic powerhouse that is chile.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by JB88
all hail the democratically progressive economic powerhouse that is chile.
That about sums it up! A fitting legacy for a great leader!
Speaking of great leaders who saved their nations by stopping communism and its domestic allies, here is Pinochet and Maggie!
(http://encyclopedia.quickseek.com/images/Pinochet-Thatcher.jpg)
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C'mon people! I can't believe Grun is still getting hooks on this troll.
I doubt he will speak positive about Hitler, but I'll bet he thinks higher of him than he does Stalin. That Grun has fascist leanings shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. He's just overcompensating for being a good little communist as a kid.
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Grunhurz should be taken to a football stadium and shot.:aok
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
That about sums it up! A fitting legacy for a great leader!
Speaking of great leaders who saved their nations by stopping communism and its domestic allies, here is Pinochet and Maggie!
Grun, tell Dowding about Maggie.
Another leader who "saved his nation by stopping communism and its domestic allies" is Saddam Hussein, but I don't think he killed as many as 30,000 "commies".
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Boroda, Dowding thinks Maggie is hot & sexy and he wants to make romance inside of her!
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A very fine article from 1993 that discusses and criticizes some of succceses and stumbles of the reforms implemented by him and draws an intersting reason for the ultimate very positive results of Pinochet's rule in Chile.
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/19931201faessay5224-p0/angelo-m-codevilla/is-pinochet-the-model.html
He was a great guy, not perfect but kept things oving in the right direction for the particular situation in his country!
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
He was a great guy...
Yeah, banana republic dictator, murderer and such. Right guy to be your hero. When you grow a dick you can step up a bit, bow to Hitler who got rid of 20,000,000 commies and while you are at it, get swastika tattoo on your forehead and join Charlie Manson fan club to compensate for whatever you're missing...
If it's just a troll, let me tell you, it's pretty tasteless, even for O'Club standards.
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Hitler was disasterous for his country while Pinochet was great for his. Thus Pinochet was a great leader, Hitler not so much.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Hitler was disasterous for his country while Pinochet was great for his. Thus Pinochet was a great leader, Hitler not so much.
Disagree. Hitler pulled his country out of one of the largest depressions in the history of the world.
It's the war thing that sent Germany askew.
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And which German leader got the country into that war?
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Even after the war, with all the german people dead, germany was a better place then it was during it's depression.
Don't underestimate the power death, dying, and war has on national economies.
After the war was done and germany was beaten, we even went out of our way to hurt american industries directly to rebuild german industries way past their wartime strength. Not bad for a couple of million dead.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Even after the war, with all the german people dead, germany was a better place then it was during it's depression.
Don't underestimate the power death, dying, and war has on national economies.
After the war was done and germany was beaten, we even went out of our way to hurt american industries directly to rebuild german industries way past their wartime strength. Not bad for a couple of million dead.
that is quite possibly the most retarded thing that i have ever read in my entire life.
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With the exception of socialist germany, it's true. Us american's shot many of our own industries in the foot for the sole purpose of rebuilding german industry.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
With the exception of socialist germany, it's true. Us american's shot many of our own industries in the foot for the sole purpose of rebuilding german industry.
hardly. the us had to slow down it's massive industrial war production and shift their efforts towards the administration of rebuilding efforts which american companies made PLENTY on.
give me a break.
really.
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The steel industry is the perfect example.
However, you've proven that you become defensive if I claim anything, so I won't. You'll have to research what actually happened. If I make a claim, you'll automatically pick the counter-claim position. So you're going to have to fly out on your own.
Go little one, FLY! Be free!
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the only thing that i have proven is that i think you are wrong, but
i didnt make the assertion without facts to back me in the first place...
so how about you show me some proof of that foot shooting yourself there mr. big brain.
;)
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See: Marshall Plan.