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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kweassa on December 11, 2006, 12:32:13 PM

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Kweassa on December 11, 2006, 12:32:13 PM

You know...

 The recent events have taught me a valuable lesson.

 At first, I thought the EW/MW setting that is promoted at MA level would become a welcome addition to AH. A chance to play MA-scale game with  the more "primitive", "lotech", "sucky" and also "well balanced" fighters of the Early and Mid war era.

 I thought an arena that had planes with less of a division between the "ubers" and the "suxxors" would be appealing. I mean, with these planes, obviously you can't just nose-down and dive 600mph, and then run straight home to your base at 380mph deck speed. Blazing the trail with triple, quad cannons is a pretty rare thing in those parts. The fights would take longer, with a lot more aerial action to be seen. The ordnance is a lot lighter than LW, and thus it would take a lot more precise amount of bombing to destroy stuff.

 I thought that kind of thing would be neat and fun. I mean, if I like something like that, who wouldn't, right?


 
 It turns out I've grossly overestimated the public.

[u]Note to self[/u]: "The five rules of the masses, in regards to simulated aerial combat"

#1. People cannot live without uberplanes.
#2. People cannot live without uberplanes.
#3. People cannot live without uberplanes.
#4. People cannot live without uberplanes.
#5. People cannot live without uberplanes.

 What is there in LW that you cannot enjoy in EW or MW? What makes it more appealing than the rest? The only answer I could come up with, was "Lgays, Spit16s, and dorky US fighters that carries 3k+ payload".

 Ah, the noble dream. T'was good while it lasted, HT.

 They never told me reality would be this harsh. I think my faith in the people's urge to enjoy variety just took a serious hit.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Nilsen on December 11, 2006, 12:45:52 PM

i _never_ fly the niki, lala or spits but i still enjoy the LW. Id rather have a poor K/D ratio in other fighters and enjoy my kills than to use the 3 main irritants. Killing any of the 3 gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. If they whine its even better.

Title: Re: I've lost faith
Post by: john9001 on December 11, 2006, 12:50:09 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa

  What is there in LW that you cannot enjoy in EW or MW? What makes it more appealing than the rest? The only answer I could come up with, was "Lgays, Spit16s, and dorky US fighters that carries 3k+ payload".

 

i get to fight more people?  Also i usually fly a P38 with no bombs because i'm a fighter not a bomber.

44MAG

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Guppy35 on December 11, 2006, 12:50:38 PM

Sadly there is some truth to what you say Kweassa.  I think it's the need to feel like you can win without much effort or fit in quickly without much effort.

Immediate gratification vs the challenge.

But then again I just chug along in my P38G so what would I know :)

Title: Don't despair!
Post by: Patches1 on December 11, 2006, 12:50:56 PM

I initially was against arena separations. But, after a few days...weeks of flying in them, I found them fun!

I would like to see one improvement, though...

For those of us who fly off peak hours, it would be nice to see who is flying, and who is GVing. Example...the EW arena where there are 5 players total...I like airplanes....maybe the other 5 like GVs...I can fly forever and not find a fight. But! If I knew the fight was on the ground...I might just challenge myself and grab a GV. Might there be a way on the Clipboard (other than individually searching each person's location...i.e  "go to" ) that I could see that no one was airborne?

Just food for thought.

Title: Re: I've lost faith
Post by: Lusche on December 11, 2006, 12:51:02 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa

 What is there in LW that you cannot enjoy in EW or MW? What makes it more appealing than the rest?  

Numbers.


When I came back a few weeks ago, I spend a big fraction of my time in MW. But finally the numbers abated to such a low level that it was simply no longer fun for me to play there.

IMHO it´s not necessarily the majority of players who would never leave LW, but a very sizeable faction. Now add to that group of LW fanatics the huge number of players like me, who would only occasionally drop into MW, the late arenas have a numerical advantage, especially as MW and EW arenas are competing with each other. And numbers produce numbers, people tend to aggravate to the place where most other players are.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: zorstorer on December 11, 2006, 12:52:07 PM

My favorite things to do in this game....

Pop the odd peee51 or tiffy in my trusty Hurri Mk.1  Nothing quite like popping the uber plane in one designed and flown in the last decade :)

Also enjoy killing GV's with the FW-190F8, those rockets are a beast :)

So I would not find those two things in either the EW or MW would I?

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Kweassa on December 11, 2006, 12:58:26 PM

Quote

Numbers.

Quote

more people

 Actually that's AFTER the initial 'selection' of 'favorites' have been already determined by the masses. I'm not really different since I also (painstakingly) have to give up flying in EW or MW because fighting the same 5 people over and over again gets old real quick.

 The issue at hand is why is there such imbalance in numbers between the arenas, in the first place.

 
 That's when it hit me.

[b]Logic for the obvious 101[/b]:

* Flies follow shi* around.
* There's shi* in the LW
* So flies flock to LW

 Curse thee, Occam!

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: TW9 on December 11, 2006, 01:00:22 PM

i prefer arena with the most numbers.. i dont care what i fly as long as there's something else to fight..

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Easyscor on December 11, 2006, 01:01:26 PM

My preference would be for the MWA but numbers are very low.

Sunday I found myself moving there from Close Escort and my bomber mission would be a milkrun unless we went for airbases, and then it's not much better.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: zorstorer on December 11, 2006, 01:02:23 PM

Quote

Originally posted by TW9
i prefer arena with the most numbers.. i dont care what i fly as long as there's something else to fight..

Pretty simple isn't it? :aok

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: bj229r on December 11, 2006, 05:35:24 PM

MW would be a blast if the new arena-balancing thing comes online--The fact that mostly rooks go there is its failing--- Not many folks wanna volunteer to get ganged with their online time. EW.... Spit and H2C seem to get 90% of the kills there, making the rest of the planes moot

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Major Biggles on December 11, 2006, 05:46:10 PM

well, people like to fly with the numbers, and seeing as the LW is most popular with the general community, that's where most people go

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: jon on December 11, 2006, 05:49:38 PM

no matter what arena you fly there is a uber plane. the first week of the new system all i heard (besides the other obvious) was perk the hurri .

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: kamilyun on December 11, 2006, 06:18:52 PM

I would like to see the EW with smaller maps, less distance between bases, and 100 troops to capture bases and no factories.  I go there often to see if I can fight the 20-30 people listed as in the arena...I can't find them.  Then I notice a factory blinking and go to intercept--the stratrunner augers.  I see a town blinking at a base, go to check it out, GV base capturer runs away to another part of the map.

In short (and in general) mostly milkrunners gaming the game/map.

I would love to see some wicked Hurri I, Spit I, C202, 109E fights, but I'm afraid that is just beyond the capabilities and interest of most current players.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: SELECTOR on December 11, 2006, 06:53:56 PM

I think kwessa is spot on.. i have reluctantly had to start to play in LW cos there are no people available at the times i fly in Ew..
why dosn't HTC try somthing different or just shut down EW & MW.. that way at least it will stop the i can't get in whines..
theory is good practicality is some what off..

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: E25280 on December 11, 2006, 06:58:01 PM

Woefully incomplete plane set/vehicle set (especially in EW) is a contributing factor IMO.  LW had the most variety even before they enabled all planes there.

Our squad had tried MW for a while, but the 8 of us that would show at one time were considered a"horde" there.

I personally tried EW a few times only to be told "my kind" was not welcome there.:(

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: thndregg on December 11, 2006, 07:20:49 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SELECTOR
I think kwessa is spot on.. i have reluctantly had to start to play in LW cos there are no people available at the times i fly in Ew..

I see similar when I'm on as well. Back in the original MA, I delighted in throwing "Hangar Queen" missions together because I have a fondness for early WW2 planes.

Along with WW1 era aircraft, these were the vehicles that started off the advance to better design, weaponry, and combat tactics. Therefore I enjoyed seeing people get a kick out of flying something a little more primitive, and it was simply a cool thing to see when someone came away from it in one piece with landed kills.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: CAV on December 11, 2006, 07:20:59 PM

I always wanted HT to try a rollin plane set in the old MA. A Tour of Duty is about 30 days....

So 10 days of Early war, 10 Mid war, and the last 10 or so days Late war. This was about the only "fix" that I wanted in the Old MA. Not all the B.S. we have had to put up with for weeks now.

Cavalry

Title: Re: I've lost faith
Post by: Krusty on December 11, 2006, 07:31:42 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
The only answer I could come up with, was "Lgays, Spit16s, and dorky US fighters that carries 3k+ payload".

See, that's your only answer because that's all you ever think (and post) about :D

You want to know the reason nobody cares about EW? It's not the planes. It's the attitude. It's the numbers. There's all of 2 fights on the entire map (not unlike the new disliked base capture system), and the folks in the fight always pour in higher and faster than anybody in the middle of the fight, cherry pick, die, up, dive, cherry pick, die. The problem isn't fast planes. Folks have proven they can live without those. The problem is there's no fun in it. Forget about trying to DO anything. My squad took up SBDs on a CV dive bombing mission. We got to 12k or so and the first second we started in on the CV 4 of us popped instantly from ack, 10k up before we could even REMOTELY get close enough to drop our bombs (auto ack, nobody was manning them).

Forget about bombing. Also not worth it.

The few folks that "land the kills" are flying around in P38Gs 10k above the nearest enemy, zoom down at 100mph faster than the nearest enemy, HO, and zoom back up. For the most part it's a bad nightmare version of Fighter Town. The dogpile gets real old real fast, and folks realize this, and go back to the better arenas.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: mussie on December 11, 2006, 07:39:40 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
have to give up flying in EW or MW because fighting the same 5 people over and over again gets old real quick.

Thats why I am in LW now... Was really enjoying EW.... But I need more fights.... guess I just followed the rest of the flock....

What can we do ?

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: rabbidrabbit on December 11, 2006, 07:48:37 PM

I would fly the EW and MW arenas the majority of the time if there was anyone else there...  Just like the AVA arena which is actually quite good.  If they had more than 100 in them they would get much more popular.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: zorstorer on December 11, 2006, 07:51:03 PM

Quote

Originally posted by mussie
Thats why I am in LW now... Was really enjoying EW.... But I need more fights.... guess I just followed the rest of the flock....

What can we do ?

Either force them into it, or give folks an incentive to head over there.  Not sure other than those two ways.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Big Mickey on December 11, 2006, 07:51:07 PM

As I fly Jugs 90% of the time I do like the MW arena. Would fly EW more if the D11 was there. The flight time to a fight don't bug me much as with a Jug you get used to having to spend some time getting a little alt.

The thing that appeals to me most about MW is that I can usually find an area of the map with a small fight, with luck a 1 on 1. Much more enjoyable than going into a mass swarm of fighters and get popped on the way out by an LA7. Call me egotistical but I like landing my kills. The old up, climb, kill, get ganged and then up again.... Well... it turns into a bit of a boring hamster wheel after a while.

As for folks gravitating to the most ubber plane they can... I think Kweassa's assessment is right on target. Some folks want to make it a first person shooter with any and all cheat codes active. No I am not saying the pilots of those planes are cheating! I am just using that as an example of trying to take the easiest route possible to winning. Me... I'll fly my big prettythangED bird and take great satisfaction in cherry picking the cartoon planes out of the pack!

Big Mickey

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Zazen13 on December 11, 2006, 07:58:24 PM

I just like a alot of targets. I'll fly wherever the biggest fights are. The planes are all pretty balanced within their era sets, you can find a plane that suits you in any set, their performance is all relative.

Flying around for an hour for 2 kills = boring

Fifteen minute hops with the potential for 5-10 kills = fun as hell

Zazen

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: DaPup on December 11, 2006, 08:26:05 PM

I'm with you Zazen! The numbers in the other arenas are like going to a H2H room.

I really can't see how Kweassa is "spot on" like a few have said, last I checked it was a WW2 flight sim game not a 1941-42 flight sim. Complaining that people fly late war birds and calling them uber is silly...did they sneak a F-14 in here and I'm the only one who can't see it :noid  

I do find it funny how so many were saying the EW and MW were going to show that a majority would really enjoy the change to the split arenas....and now they're nowhere to be found in there:rolleyes:

I think it showed that we that inhabit the forums are the minority. I can't believe that you would have really thought they would work in the first place, I know I didn't.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: DREDIOCK on December 11, 2006, 08:33:11 PM

Quote

Originally posted by TW9
i prefer arena with the most numbers..  

I think herein lies the most accurate answer.
No matter what you add or what you change. the bulk of people will always want to be where the crowd is.

I've popped into the smaller arenas but typically there werent enough people there to make it worth my while.

I popped in one arena I forget which one day and only saw 3 planes flying in the entire arena. Everyone else was in GVS.
which woulda been cool if I was in the mood for a GV fight. But that particular night I felt like flying

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: rabbidrabbit on December 11, 2006, 08:34:13 PM

Quote

Originally posted by zorstorer
Either force them into it, or give folks an incentive to head over there.  Not sure other than those two ways.

penalizing is generally bad..  could charge more perks for more things in the LW arenas and give stronger perk multiples on the EW and MW arenas.  Not really penalizing on one hand and encouraging on the other.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Killjoy2 on December 11, 2006, 08:35:49 PM

"I've lost faith"  Kweeasa

I've lost interest.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Toad on December 11, 2006, 08:42:00 PM

I really like EW at first. There were good fights in there.

However, the EW became a GV milkrunner's paradise. Those that aren't milking in GV's are usually attempting to milkrun in aircraft. There's damn few folks fighting aircraft v aircraft.

I don't know if awarding no perks at all in EW would help but it might.

I admit I simply do not understand those that take pleasure in unopposed capture. It seems to me they might as well play offline.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Overlag on December 11, 2006, 08:59:39 PM

i dont fly "uber" planes..... but i find EW and MW boring...not enough players..... can fly around for a few hours just toolsheding and not finding anyone...

and when someone does come along, they just keep running back to there ack.....and being in EW/MW means you cant get ack down. so you stuck flying around doing nothing

EW/MW only get numbers if TT is on..... other than that its just a waste of space.





the main issue is AH is tweaked for LW "attitude" so EW and MW are too "hard".

which is why i started a thread when the split happend asking for different settings per arena.... EW = few guns, and bunkers next to each other. MW = more guns, harder bunkers and more spread. LW.... current setup.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Killjoy2 on December 11, 2006, 09:01:45 PM

I've always hoped they would include an EW and MW in a corner of one of the large maps.  Kind of like we have Tank Town.  We could have Early War town.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Dichotomy on December 11, 2006, 10:13:54 PM

I just wish there were more players in EW and MW on a regular basis.  Flying around for 30 minutes looking for a contest isn't a whole lot of fun in my book.  I'd go to AVA but flying for 5 minutes then being sent back to the tower, lather, rinse, repeat, with those assassins, isn't much more fun (no insult to you AVA gents but all of you are better than I am).  Generally these days I go to the TA... you can fly forever and there's usually somebody to chase or to be chased by

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: FrodeMk3 on December 11, 2006, 10:18:46 PM

Keassa,

In truth, the EW/MW concept would be sound, if not for one thing...

It has to have a more complete planeset.

With some accompanied GV's(Pz III, Matilda, Crusader, ?)

EW ack (MG's, or different guns on the airfield, for example)

Take an expanded planeset, Only enable it in EW/MW, and see what happens.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: FALCONWING on December 11, 2006, 10:48:35 PM

i gotta weigh in on this:

 any true vet can tell you there is no such thing as an "uber" plane....when i hear people use those term i think "newbie" or someone who has not flown enuf planes to know what they are talking about...


let me elaborate...hurri2, spit 1, spit5 are all better turners then the "uber" planes....in fact if you had to label a plane as a trainer (training wheels) then i would stick the label on the EW planes (limited flaps..already slow so instant turn radius)...the only true adv the "so called uber" planes have is their speed...and in a turnfight thats a liability....i personally "learned" the flight model in a spit5 when i first joined...left it due to the fact it couldnt catch anything and i DON'T like someone else dictating tempo of a fight (just like chess fellahs...control tempo and control the game)

soooo...who really wants the EW planes??? guys who lack skill and patience imho...they want the arcade of quick easy low fights that you can charge into gun blazing...barely need to use flaps...and noone can egress to safety....take altitude and e out of the picture and make the fight very one dimensional (like ww1 arena in awc).

THIS is why EW failed..end of story...arcade fights with no strategy encouraged (or allowed by the self appointed dictators) results in eventual boredom (i.e. logging after 1/2 hour) and low numbers

the only pilots who garner my respect are the guys who fly the true B-n-Z...try getting furball kills in a FW for example in LW..very hard to do.

and for the folks who like to say the la7 is uber...ill turnfight you in any EW plane vs LA7 and beat the snot out of you....or even better try and beat a good lala pilot in his own plane....if they are so easy to fly....you should school him/her right?

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: 999000 on December 11, 2006, 11:02:52 PM

Falconwing ..I really wish people would start to listen to you and TW9 brothers
999000

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: FALCONWING on December 11, 2006, 11:40:13 PM

old friend!!!

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Yeager on December 11, 2006, 11:47:07 PM

question for anyone who plays this game:

how many nights spent with a beautiful woman have you passed up so you could stay up late and play this silly computer game?

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Masherbrum on December 11, 2006, 11:52:49 PM

Quote

Originally posted by FALCONWING
soooo...who really wants the EW planes??? guys who lack skill and patience imho...they want the arcade of quick easy low fights that you can charge into gun blazing...barely need to use flaps...and noone can egress to safety....take altitude and e out of the picture and make the fight very one dimensional (like ww1 arena in awc).

So when the MA was in existence and I was bagging LW birds in a Spit 1 and landing 2-3 at a time, I lacked "skill and patience".   Give me a break!

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: NCLawman on December 12, 2006, 12:02:58 AM

Quote

Originally posted by FALCONWING
i gotta weigh in on this:

 any true vet can tell you there is no such thing as an "uber" plane....when i hear people use those term i think "newbie" or someone who has not flown enuf planes to know what they are talking about...


let me elaborate...hurri2, spit 1, spit5 are all better turners then the "uber" planes....in fact if you had to label a plane as a trainer (training wheels) then i would stick the label on the EW planes (limited flaps..already slow so instant turn radius)...the only true adv the "so called uber" planes have is their speed...and in a turnfight thats a liability....i personally "learned" the flight model in a spit5 when i first joined...left it due to the fact it couldnt catch anything and i DON'T like someone else dictating tempo of a fight (just like chess fellahs...control tempo and control the game)

soooo...who really wants the EW planes??? guys who lack skill and patience imho...they want the arcade of quick easy low fights that you can charge into gun blazing...barely need to use flaps...and noone can egress to safety....take altitude and e out of the picture and make the fight very one dimensional (like ww1 arena in awc).

THIS is why EW failed..end of story...arcade fights with no strategy encouraged (or allowed by the self appointed dictators) results in eventual boredom (i.e. logging after 1/2 hour) and low numbers

the only pilots who garner my respect are the guys who fly the true B-n-Z...try getting furball kills in a FW for example in LW..very hard to do.

and for the folks who like to say the la7 is uber...ill turnfight you in any EW plane vs LA7 and beat the snot out of you....or even better try and beat a good lala pilot in his own plane....if they are so easy to fly....you should school him/her right?

Falconwing for President! :aok

:D

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Guppy35 on December 12, 2006, 12:12:38 AM

Quote

Originally posted by FALCONWING
i gotta weigh in on this:

 any true vet can tell you there is no such thing as an "uber" plane....when i hear people use those term i think "newbie" or someone who has not flown enuf planes to know what they are talking about...


let me elaborate...hurri2, spit 1, spit5 are all better turners then the "uber" planes....in fact if you had to label a plane as a trainer (training wheels) then i would stick the label on the EW planes (limited flaps..already slow so instant turn radius)...the only true adv the "so called uber" planes have is their speed...and in a turnfight thats a liability....i personally "learned" the flight model in a spit5 when i first joined...left it due to the fact it couldnt catch anything and i DON'T like someone else dictating tempo of a fight (just like chess fellahs...control tempo and control the game)

soooo...who really wants the EW planes??? guys who lack skill and patience imho...they want the arcade of quick easy low fights that you can charge into gun blazing...barely need to use flaps...and noone can egress to safety....take altitude and e out of the picture and make the fight very one dimensional (like ww1 arena in awc).

THIS is why EW failed..end of story...arcade fights with no strategy encouraged (or allowed by the self appointed dictators) results in eventual boredom (i.e. logging after 1/2 hour) and low numbers

the only pilots who garner my respect are the guys who fly the true B-n-Z...try getting furball kills in a FW for example in LW..very hard to do.

and for the folks who like to say the la7 is uber...ill turnfight you in any EW plane vs LA7 and beat the snot out of you....or even better try and beat a good lala pilot in his own plane....if they are so easy to fly....you should school him/her right?

OK I'm clearly a bit slow on the uptake.  So you are suggesting that in LW, that flying an early war plane is actually easier then flying a latewar bird?

And here all this time I thought I was challenging myself flying the 38G in LW since it's slower then the LW birds, no wep, can't run from a fight etc.

So to challenge myself I should fly a LW speed burner?

Interesting.  The other night, I went up under my late son's account cause I was missing him, and took a P51B and flew.  Did the old hang above the fight, drop in and pick em, while extending like mad with the speed I had.

Got 11 kills in a B pony in 2 flights, finally dying to a HO shot from an F4U1C.

Never done that in a 38G and I fly the G almost exclusively since it arrived in AH.  And all this time I thought I was making it more difficult for myself with the challenge of a 1942-43 bird against the 45 birds.


OK where's my LA7 ......

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: SkyRock on December 12, 2006, 12:26:47 AM

Not even going to read back beyond the, "EW planes are UBER" comment! Of course I mis-quoted on purpose!  :rofl :lol :rofl :furious :lol :rofl

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Krusty on December 12, 2006, 01:12:01 AM

You're all misreading what he typed. He's spot on.

He's talking about in the EW environment we've got right now, it caters specifically to the easy-mode pilots, because it removs any plane that would be a threat to their simple yank-n-bank skills. All they wanna do is dogpile the tail-end-charlie in a long line of distracted folks, turn as tight as they can, die (maybe get a kill in the process) and reup, repeat ad nauseum. The point is there's no real challenge for any of those planes when flying against any of the other planes enabled in the arena. An arena full of Hurricanes, SpitVs, and zeros is just that, and gets really old after the 1,000th revolution for no purpose.

I'm sure he agrees that flying early planes, when more advanced planes are available is more challenging.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Trikky on December 12, 2006, 03:52:54 AM

HTC did say splitting the arenas up would allow them to add new aircraft which would otherwise go unnoticed. I'm expecting the I-16 any day now.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: storch on December 12, 2006, 06:19:34 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
You're all misreading what he typed. He's spot on.

He's talking about in the EW environment we've got right now, it caters specifically to the easy-mode pilots, because it removs any plane that would be a threat to their simple yank-n-bank skills. All they wanna do is dogpile the tail-end-charlie in a long line of distracted folks, turn as tight as they can, die (maybe get a kill in the process) and reup, repeat ad nauseum. The point is there's no real challenge for any of those planes when flying against any of the other planes enabled in the arena. An arena full of Hurricanes, SpitVs, and zeros is just that, and gets really old after the 1,000th revolution for no purpose.

I'm sure he agrees that flying early planes, when more advanced planes are available is more challenging.

or you can get in a 109 and improve your skills by slapping down pinheads in the woobiecaneIIc and the woobiefireV.  the gay6Ms?  puleeeeese, they spontaneously combust at the mere sight of my 109.  the 109F is competetive in all the arenas if played to it's advantages though.  it is true that this fact would apply to any plane in the current inventory.  tankman2 consistently lands multiple kills in the HurriI even in the late war arena.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: BlauK on December 12, 2006, 06:30:58 AM

I really wonder what would have happened if in the original arena split, they would have taken a small step of splitting it into 2 arenas... LW and EW+MW.
I never understood the split into 4 arenas.

I would also rather fly most often at MW, but the decent numbers are a priority in a multiplayer sim.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: B@tfinkV on December 12, 2006, 07:04:54 AM

flying the La7 into a pack of 5 enemy is awesome fun.



you haters just wouldnt understand.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Lusche on December 12, 2006, 07:17:28 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Yeager
question for anyone who plays this game:

how many nights spent with a beautiful woman have you passed up so you could stay up late and play this silly computer game?

I play this silly computer game because I am ugly and beautiful women always laugh at me :cry

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: shegotya on December 12, 2006, 07:19:47 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
, because it removs any plane that would be a threat to their simple yank-n-bank skills. All they wanna do is dogpile the tail-end-charlie in a long line of distracted folks, turn as tight as they can, die (maybe get a kill in the process) and reup, repeat ad nauseum.  

That is not how your SUPPOSE to do it ... GREAT!! I just perfected the yank-n-bank too!!


SGY*:aok

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Oldman731 on December 12, 2006, 08:13:13 AM

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Originally posted by Krusty
An arena full of Hurricanes, SpitVs, and zeros is just that, and gets really old after the 1,000th revolution for no purpose.

Could be, could be.  When to split the arenas was a tough call.  At present there just aren't enough early war rides to mirror the multitude of choices available in late war, so perhaps the change was made too soon.  OTOH, now there's incentive to create more planes in the early periods.  P-39s, I-16s, Oscars....there have been plenty of threads over the years discussing all the different planes that would fit here, which would be simply a waste of time in late war.

For the occasional visitor (me), it's been sort of sad to see the trend in EW.  At first you could find people flying nearly all of the planes (OK, maybe not the P-40B).  Then the choices got trimmed down to Zekes, 109Fs, Wildcats, Hurri IIs and Spit 5s.  The last time I was in there (maybe a week ago?) it was all Spit 5s, supporting Kweassa's original point that, left to their own, people will gravitate to the easiest rides.

As for the notion that getting kills in early war planes is easier than getting kills in late war planes....I disagree (with a chuckle).  It isn't the speed of the late war planes that makes them killers, it's the enormous racks of big guns they carry.  Apart from Hizooka-equipped or perked EW planes (you know what they are), there are very few snap-shot kills to be had in the early war period.

- oldman

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: B@tfinkV on December 12, 2006, 08:23:48 AM

great post oldman S! i really miss the old days of combat theatre and rarely stay awake for the small goldmine of fights in the wee hours of AvA.

there was just something magical about being the allies vs storch and company in those days, and i will be forever thanfull to JG54 for the fun we had just as much as those i flew alongside. flying jamusta's wing and being beaten up by you and duke, and many others, those days were almost AH1-like in thier fun levels.

personaly on your comments krusty i see your points, but i would adore an arena made of just spits, hurris and zekes.  spitfire V all the way. :)

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: BugsBunny on December 12, 2006, 09:27:32 AM

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Originally posted by Oldman731

For the occasional visitor (me), it's been sort of sad to see the trend in EW.  At first you could find people flying nearly all of the planes (OK, maybe not the P-40B).  Then the choices got trimmed down to Zekes, 109Fs, Wildcats, Hurri IIs and Spit 5s.  The last time I was in there (maybe a week ago?) it was all Spit 5s, supporting Kweassa's original point that, left to their own, people will gravitate to the easiest rides.

That should have been the answer on the other thread O

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Quah! on December 12, 2006, 09:47:22 AM

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I would like to see the EW with smaller maps, less distance between bases, and 100 troops to capture bases and no factories. I go there often to see if I can fight the 20-30 people listed as in the arena...I can't find them. Then I notice a factory blinking and go to intercept--the stratrunner augers. I see a town blinking at a base, go to check it out, GV base capturer runs away to another part of the map.

In short (and in general) mostly milkrunners gaming the game/map.

I would love to see some wicked Hurri I, Spit I, C202, 109E fights, but I'm afraid that is just beyond the capabilities and interest of most current players.

Spot on, institute the Base Taking change tested in Orange and these two arenas will flourish.

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et me elaborate...hurri2, spit 1, spit5 are all better turners then the "uber" planes....in fact if you had to label a plane as a trainer (training wheels) then i would stick the label on the EW planes (limited flaps..already slow so instant turn radius)...the only true adv the "so called uber" planes have is their speed...and in a turnfight thats a liability....i personally "learned" the flight model in a spit5 when i first joined...left it due to the fact it couldnt catch anything and i DON'T like someone else dictating tempo of a fight (just like chess fellahs...control tempo and control the game)

soooo...who really wants the EW planes??? guys who lack skill and patience imho...they want the arcade of quick easy low fights that you can charge into gun blazing...barely need to use flaps...and noone can egress to safety....take altitude and e out of the picture and make the fight very one dimensional (like ww1 arena in awc).

No disrespect intended, but I have never seen a more ignorant assessment of combat flying or an example of smaller balls.  I have dictated most fights from down low as lemmings dove in and blew their E, then died or ran.  

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take altitude and e out of the picture and make the fight very one dimensional

Yeah because you are in an early war bird, you no longer have Energy and can't use altitude.  Are you cheeseting me!

Hiding on your perch and cherrying with your advantages takes very little in the way of skill and is the real easy way out.  Hiding behind the big engine and your ability to run, wow mad skills LOL.

It takes far more patience to outmaneuver the safety dancers as they dive in from their perches and blow all their advantages.
 
Something tells me you never fight without the advantages and that my friend is the easy way out.  

Your from the camp of "control tempo and control the game", I'm from the camp of "Possess better fighting skills and control then enemy no matter what plane your in."  No more need to hide behind the type of plane anymore.  :aok

I have to agree, I too have gotten cynical about this community and the heros flying in here these days.  They need all the numbers, all the advantages all the excuses and even with all the cards they still avoid the fights.  Then they come in here and whine/defend the need to milkrun, fly in hordes and not fight.  

I never imagined back in the day flying Aces of the Pacific against AI, when I longed for online air combat games that pitted me against another human, that there would be people that avoided a decent fight at all costs.  It is sad for sure.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Masherbrum on December 12, 2006, 10:06:41 AM

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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
flying the La7 into a pack of 5 enemy is awesome fun.



you haters just wouldnt understand.

I understand.   It IS fun.   Try it with a Spit5.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Kweassa on December 12, 2006, 10:35:27 AM

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flying the La7 into a pack of 5 enemy is awesome fun.

 ... upto the point when you discover all those 5 enemies now behind, are also La-7s.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Oldman731 on December 12, 2006, 11:37:29 AM

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Originally posted by BugsBunny
That should have been the answer on the other thread O

Heh.  That was my point in the other thread.  The migration occurred because people sought the easy rides.

Where was it that they ended up?

- oldman

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: BugsBunny on December 12, 2006, 12:03:10 PM

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Originally posted by Oldman731
Heh.  That was my point in the other thread.  The migration occurred because people sought the easy rides.

Where was it that they ended up?

- oldman

:lol  hehe, I meant the part about being bored with just those planes foo :D

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: bozon on December 12, 2006, 05:02:50 PM

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Originally posted by Kweassa
... upto the point when you discover all those 5 enemies now behind, are also La-7s.

or 4 La7s and while you knife fight all 4 of them, the 5th - a Hurri2C will come crawling and get you when you are out of air.

EW birds in LW basically feed of the scraps of others. Unless your opponent is willing to fight to the death or has no brains, you'll never catch an La7 with a hurricane (just an example, might as well be other planes). A hurricane will not catch a 109E/F in EW either, but the difference there is not that great.

However Kweassa is right. The majority is not interested in quality fights, or interesting planes. They either "fighters" who want the bestest plane and try get as many kills as they can, or "strat" players who'd use the easiest means to capture/pork a base - late war bombers and jabos.

Jabo in EW/MW? why up an SBD or D3A with a little bomb atached, when you can take a typhoon with 2k bombs or P51 with 2k+6 rockets and come diving in supersonic and also be a fighter once ord is released? why fly Ju88 with punny 0.3 mg for defense when you can fly B17/24 ack stars? when achievement is measured by scores and kills there is no reason.

By the posts in this thread, those of us that like the EW / MW are mostly plane-dedicated pilots (if you don't count the score padders that exploit an empty areana). Those that fly certain planes because they love them, or find it interesting or historical, they enjoy EW/MW. I think the differentiation here is not "furballers" vs. "tool shedders", but "simmers" vs. "gamers".

The "density instability" effect is very real. People do flock to where the others are. However, this is not random and they always end up flocking to LW. Note the disappearance of plane-dedicated and historical (by more than just name) squadrons. There used to be plenty of those. Only a few these days.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Guppy35 on December 12, 2006, 05:06:32 PM

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Originally posted by bozon
Note the disappearance of plane-dedicated and historical (by more than just name) squadrons. There used to be plenty of those. Only a few these days.

And probably even less that fly the ride of their historical counterparts consistantly.  One of the reasons that when I see a high Jug, I tend to figure he's probably 56th :)

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: FALCONWING on December 12, 2006, 08:31:01 PM

um thanks to those who actually read my post with intent to understand instead of being defensive....

of course i was referring to the demise of the EW....

and those who fly the EW planes in LW are mostly "look at me" guys or folks who like to have a built in excuse..."ooh im l33t i killed a la7 who was dumb enuf to turn with me in my hurri1":lol

here is the hard truth quah and co....i was a champ furballer in AWC...i mastered the p38 and won dueling ladders with it.....it gets old without any other reason to play because the only satisfaction after a while is "being the best" (and most poeple just dont care)

we only had EW planes in general back in AWC if you werent there for those days....and ive got a secret for you....

come closer...

closer....

:noid

we called 190s uber because they could egress from the spits and 38s and they would fly higher and werent dumb enuf to turnfight us...we called them every name in the book!!!

so the secret is.......unless hitech only gives one plane in an arena..the faster non turning plane will always be called the uber plane.....

also the reason for EW demise was never more evident than in the post where some of the posters here were "just so pissed and outraged" that someone would sink a cv that had been placed against an enemy field to be used as a furball platform!!! how dare they!!!

who  knows maybe EW would have made it if guys were allowed to use the EW planes not just as furball machines but actually in the environment of a dynamic game.  i tried Ew and was told to leave by some of the dictators as this was their arena.  and while i was there different nights, i watched guys get yelled at for being over 5k and flying 190s etc.

so kweassa...i too have lost faith but its in the very opposite of the people you are pointing the finger at...its in the people in even this post who continue to try and dictate to others what their fun should be...and then are puzzled when grown men wont play their way if they whine enough.:rolleyes:

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: Guppy35 on December 13, 2006, 12:07:02 AM

What was your AW CPID Falconwing?

I got to know most of the 38 dweebs back then in AW.  Wondering when you were flying it and where?

And as an aside, as one who flies the 38G 99% of the time, that goes back to a promise I made to myself in my Nomad days in AW that if I ever got an early model 38, that's all I'd fly.

My old AW Nomad pilot +Tiff always had a 38E, at least in his imagination :)

As for the 190s in AW.  It was the D9 pilots we called names. That was AW's LA7.  It was much more fun to try and tempt the A8 drivers to come on down  and bounce us in the 38s.  You could evade em until they got frustrated and low and slow.  Then it was over.

Title: I've lost faith
Post by: FALCONWING on December 13, 2006, 01:33:08 PM

i was bop2d and then ^falc...used to try and find nomads and widowmakers to fight in other arenas since they were 38 squads.

i flew rre4 and my wingman for 2v2s was onyx and also SLU...

and yep it was the 190d9s i was referring to...a current friend named HAJO used to be the "worst" at frustrating us by showing up with altitude and "refusing" to fight our way =)

and there was no side balancing needed there...point was that there is always a plane to be called "uber"...if there were spads and camels and fokkers available someone would fly them in LW and call the spit1 "uber":rolleyes:

i still have never minded having 4 arenas....but caps and side balancing are simply ways to force guys to play a way they dont really want to and i dont see that as healthy for the game....

also i agree that for EW to succeed you have to make changes in ack and town dropping to enable the rest of the game to be fun and that would encourage more folks to have fun there.