Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Grayeagle on December 12, 2006, 02:16:39 AM
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Welp .. got approved, go pick up my first ever 'Vette today at 11am.
Not bran new, mind.
Nice lil C-5, 1998, black on black coupe.
LS-1 motor, very little wear an tear, a very nice lookin car. Even the tires look good.
Man .. up close an personal she sure does look 'swoopy' ..all curves and flowing down the road even standing still. Batman has nothin on me :)
I can sit in it wearin my hat an not hit the cool detachable roof peice thingy.
Salesman 'it's all stock' ..I laughed.
'stock' is already a purty good chunk o' horsepower in a little bitty car that is glued to the road.
I know how to find a turbo for it ..an flowmasters -evil grin-
..wife says she keel me if I get a ticket .. I told her to lighten up ..drove the 440 powered Duster for almost 2 decades and never got ticket one, and it was one hell of a lot more 'noticeable' ..loud .. obnoxious ..and FAST.
Ima join the local 'Vett club an do the spring-summer-fall cruises comin up, run a few times at the drag strip for a baseline ..
..I had *SO* forgotten how much fun it is to have a project car again :)
-GE (kinda feelin sorry for the lil wing ring dings with the big mufflers)
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Congrats man! And welcome to the LS1 family! You'll find it's a killer engine and the C5 a killer ride.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g308/txflood77598/P1000936.jpg)
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You're gonna love that car GE. My Dad has a 2003 or 2004 Z06 and the performance is absolutely amazing. I have a 1998 Trans-Am with the LS1 motor and it's been one of the best purchases I've ever made. Over 120k miles on it, including many long trips, a few years of autocross racing, 4 years where my daily commute was a rather abusive 4 miles each way, and an 85mph blast up and over the summit at Tahoe towing a 1600lb trailer.
GM had fixed most of the early LS1 problems by 1998 so hopefully your motor will continue to last. If not, or if you're worried about anything, a rebuild to fix early deficiencies (mostly valve train and oil related if I recall correctly) shouldn't cost too much, especially if done in conjunction with any other engine work.
With even a mild turbo or supercharger, you'll give the Z06's a good run.
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Congrats on your new car!
The Vette is one of only three modern American cars I would consider owning, and it is probably the most decent of the lot.
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neat car greyeagle and nice color for one.
Have fun.... but then... if you had a 440 duster.... you don't need to be told to have fun do ya?
lazs
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Question: You mention putting a turbo in it, would a supercharger be a better match for that engine?
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What is it about high heels and an arched back?
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Originally posted by FiLtH
What is it about high heels and an arched back?
It's kinda like the taste of chocolate... hard to describe but you know it's good.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Question: You mention putting a turbo in it, would a supercharger be a better match for that engine?
Ya ..Vortech makes a sweet bolt on ..497hp when yer all done
!!!!!!!!! (tm Heater)
No scoop, no radical idle, pump gas, sleeper :)
I'm kinda feelin my way ..gettin used to how things work .. the car seems to combine a lotta different rides I have had .. fast, corners hard, small (well .. compared to the Durango) ..we gonna have a long fun relationship :)
I'm thinkin .. mondo go-cart :) Sheesh it eats a buncha road in a hurry when ya lean on the gas .. I lak dat :)
(ok.. neighbor just came out, got in his chebby truck ..did a burn out in his driveway -brakes on an all- .. revved that poor truck motor to the moon a few times .. shut down..an went back inside) (ROFL)
-GE
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Superchargers are most efficient at low RPM. As the engine RPM increases, the superchargers effect decreases.
Turbo chargers are just the opposite.
In an LS1, I should think a twin turbo arrangement would really work well. Cam the engine for low end grunt, using the turbos for added goose bumps in the higher RPM ranges.
Or cam the engine for high end grunt, use a supercharger to buck up the low end.
I would think it really depends on the normally aspirated horsepower and torque curves as to which charger configuration would be best. Then again, I might be getting too deep into it for some folks.
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Or just be like me. Have illusions of grandeur and then realise it's alot of money and sometimes a real pain in the rearend and just be happy with the horsepower you have.
Modding is more addictive than crack cocaine.
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cmon Diablo, just one fix...
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Originally posted by moot
cmon Diablo, just one fix...
That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid.
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Diablo,
A simple cat-back wouldn't hurt, would it? Just one, just to see... Maybe slap in a borla y-pipe, 3-inch pipe... Lots of options there.
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That's just it eagl. I KNOW if I go cat-back, then y-pipe, then LT headers, then cam, head work, etc, ect...snowball.
Like I said, crack cocaine.
I went through it with the '77 Trans Am, the '65 GTO and was able to restrain it a bit with my '96 Camaro.
As Gollum said in The Return of the King, "Not this time! NOT THIS TIME!!"
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Just a widdle y-pipe and 3-inch... Don't even need headers for that.
At least put on some performance shocks and struts up front... That's a half-day in the garage shop even if you have to find a shop with the tools to compress the front springs for you. While you're under there, put on a little beefier front swaybar from the 1LE kit. You might even find one used for cheap. Poly bushings will keep it nice and tight, but they might squeak a bit. The crisper front end control will be worth it.
We're talking a couple hours, not much bucks... Come on, you know you want to.
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Honestly, the first thing on my list is getting ride of thes Coooper tires that are on the car now. The good thing is they're new so I don't have to replace them any time soon. The bad thing is that they're of a hard rubber compound. Once they get worn down a bit I'll replace them with some good tires. After that, all bets are off to what I do next. But most likely it'll be a Corsa cat-back with the 3.5 pro tips.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g308/txflood77598/driving.gif)
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Or...
I could save my money that would go to mods and go with my original plan and trade in the Z in 2008 for:
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g308/txflood77598/Camaro-annoucement-01.jpg)
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So ok .. was on the way home near midnite last nite, stopped by the lites at the I-17 intersection ..a white somethin or other pulls up on my right, big muffler, 4 cylinder becomes obvious as he revs the motor to the moon about 15 times while we wait for the green ..I'm thinkin 'umm ..he's in the freeway right turn only lane.'
Guy behind him BEEPS .. cause well, yanno, you don't have to wait on the green there.
He gets flustered, drops it into gear while the motor is still comin down from 50 thousand rpm, 'ah, an automatic' I think as the car chirps/clunks loudly and shoots towards the guard rails on the other side. A radical steering input, a little sideways action and 'omg, he dint just hit the brakes!' ..the white POS comes within inches of the guard rails, the 'driver' ( I use the term loosely here) ..gets on the gas and trundles off down the freeway onramp.
Man .. he really showed me.
I mean.
-GE (so this is what it's gonna be like I guess)
Diablo .. I am a certified gear head.
I have never owned a 'stock' anything for very long.
There are some things I will not do (K&N air filter, for one.. talk about minimal returns for time/money spent.. sheesh!)
..but I have been known to fire a torch up and go all the way around a floor pan cutting *everything* out from under ..just to make my *own* tube-frame, altered wheel-base, 15" motor set-back, big-ass tars stuffed under with narrowed dana car to drive .. and I did that to a '67 GTX.
I was ready to setup motor mounts and panel the interior when a guy gave me more than I thought the car was worth for it ..he 'really' liked it.
I just noted that scott schafiroff makes a nice 427 LS-1 short block ..costs a bit more than the vortech blower .. -pencils that in as 'number two' on the list right under the blower- ..-evil grin-
-GE
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Congrats:aok
I had a 99 C5 Blue Coupe. HUD and all the bells and whistles.
It was a vacation everytime I drove it. And that was every day.
They are in a class of thier own.
Best of luck with and and enjoy it. Nothing like taking the top off , hitting the road about 8 in the evening during the summer. Cranking that Stereo up and running the dust off at triple digits.
edit....
I had a lil chicky one time while on my way to work pull up beside me in a 911. Beautiful car and beautiful girl as well. She raced the engine a few times while we were at a light in downtown Austin. No I only have like 5 blocks to go til I am at work. But , I though what the heak. So I reved it back.
Light turns green and she just showerrs down on that thing and flat dumps the clutch right in the middle of the intersection. I just tottled away at that point laffing nmy butt off. I had 1 block to go when she puuled back up beside me at the last red light.
I looked over....she was stoned faced. I reved it a bit and she slumped in her seat. I turned right on the red waving out of the top.
It was just a funny moment of many when I had my Vette.
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(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g308/txflood77598/P1000936.jpg)
Thought of a cool nickname for the 'maro.
"C-HOG"
Gonna get it on a personalised plate.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
(http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL767/2726312/8668097/213369513.jpg)
:eek: :eek: :eek:
(http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL767/2726312/8668097/213368745.jpg)
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
[IMG]
Thought of a cool nickname for the 'maro.
"C-HOG"
Gonna get it on a personalised plate.
Definitely a perked ride :)
Guessin my plate should read 'Tiffie' then :)
-GE
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RipSnort: Ka-CHOW!
I watch that movie almost every day. I can recite portions of it without making a mistake.
Why? I have 2.5 and 4.5 year old boys, and they simply require that it be played every day when they get home.
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GE Nice, Congrats!
My best friend just bought his 2nd 06 Vette. Now, get this, 2nd in 2 months.
Well, his first one kinda got wrecked. His wife was sitting at a stop light and some kid hot rodded around the corned, hit the curb, and landed on his HOOD.
Poor thing was totaled with less than 300 miles on it :mad:
I opted for the new Stang myself. Of course, the Vettes in a totally different league. But I can keep up with him ;)
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well Skuzzy ..
Superchargers use a belt to drive 'em . the more boost you want, the more hp it's gonna take to make it pushin that belt to compress the air.
They are effective at however much the bottom end can stand. Some Top Fuel engines have turned 15 *thousand* rpm with those huge blowers up top. So far .. no turbo motor has made a dent in top fuel.
The reason I mention top fuel is.. the fastest car wins. Only limitation is 500 cubic inch max motor size .. so if a turbo could do it .. it would.
They cant.
However .. a turbo works very well ..and a twin turbo on a V-8 means ya got one for each bank ..waste gate can keep the boost from poppin head gaskets at the high end, and a turbo can be built to come on at idle and hit the gate at engine redline ..you can even plumb nitrous into 'em so there is no lag (lag is inherent due to first you punch it, then the turbo spools up causing increase in boost ..whereas supercharger is pumpin more air in at idle to begin with .. and it just gets crazier when ya punch it, bein directly driven off the crankshaft = no lag) Of course .. you gotta do somethin to keep the bearings cool and lubed ..they deal directly with exhaust heat, and they spin purty fast.
Turbo is more efficient, due to no belt. Lot more plumbing required.
Gale Banks makes a nice 1000hp small block chebby ..twin turbo. Callaway useda make some nice turbo kits too ..along with others.
Turbo's are nice, .. but .. I'd rather be blown -evil grin-
No lag, right off idle effective, right to engine redline, low maintenance.
-GE (just somethin about havin 'supercharged' lettered on the rear facia :)
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I remember an article putting one of the first calloway twin turbo vettes against the ZR1 vette. The twin turbo pulled to 200mph, at which time they both melted. No kidding.
It was fast as heck, but they had no way to keep the turbos cool under the vette hood.
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GE, the reason a supercharger is more effective for rails is due to the low end shove they give the rails. Rail engines are cammed up for high RPM, and to produce most of thier horsepower at the top.
When you cam that radical, you lose most of your low end grunt. So the supercharger provides the missing grunt for the low end so the rail can launch.
And they continue to provide boost as the rev up, but the efficiency drops as they need more power to rotate at higher RPM. If you graph the blower delivery pressure against the RPM, the percentage of boost delivered reduces as the RPM increases. Does not matter to a rail engine as thier horsepower increases far faster than the amount of drag induced by a supercharger as RMP increases.
Turbo chargers would never be used for a rail engine, as the power needed from a rail engine is set in the higher RPM range. That is not to say a turbo cannot deliver at lower RPM. They can deliver at low RPM, but the trade-off bneing, they take a longer time to make boost at low RPM. Too long for a rail engine. It would die at launch.
For sustained RPM engines a low RPM delivery turbo charger would be fine. Piston airplane engines are a good example.
Anyway, I digress, most street engines are cammed to not completely kill the low end and a turbo charger works well enough for them. It really all depends on how the grunt is dispersed over the RPM range in the motor. But for instantaneous boost, a super charger is better, as long as you are cammed a bit higher in the RPM range, you can have a heck of street engine.
For the uninitiated, "grunt" is horsepower and/or torque. A "rail" is a dragster.
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If the problem is filling gaps in the powerband, why not just use more than one turbochager, each geared for a certain engine speed?
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all of these things have been tried with varied results. The latest thing is to have the turbo at the rear of the car. solves the heat and plumbing problem and the long tube going forward solves the cooling of the air charge problem.
superchargers are just neat tho... no lag at all and they look good.
lazs
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Moot, it really depends on what the car is to be used for. If one of the goals is to get off the line as fast as possible, a supercharger is a better choice than a turbocharger.
The two extremes are the Indy type racer, and the dragster. Both have engines producing insane amounts of horsepower, but the Indy cars use turbochargers and the dragsters use superchargers.
Simple really. The Indy car has no need to launch like a rocket. They need thier power in a specific high RPM band. The dragster will easily lose a race at the line, if they did not use a supercharger.
Dual stage turbo chargers have been around for a while, but they still cannot provide the punch as fast as a supercharger.
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We have a 2002 Z06 with a charger, borla exaust : 614HP to the ground. Quite scary fast actually. :cry
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Thanks Skuzzy.
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Skuzzy;
Ya.
We both are sayin the same things :)
I jest use fewer words :)
-GE (the gale banks motor would require a raised hood on my C5 ..the vortech blower wont .. -evil grin- ..and if I had the kinda money gale wants for his 1khp small block chebby .. I'd rather hook into one of Scott Schafiroffs monster big blocks)
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Originally posted by Grayeagle
Welp .. got approved, go pick up my first ever 'Vette today at 11am.
Not bran new, mind.
Nice lil C-5, 1998, black on black coupe.
LS-1 motor, very little wear an tear, a very nice lookin car. Even the tires look good.
Pictures man......... PICTURES!:furious
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I hope I did not sound like I was arguing about it GE. Truth is, I am envious of you.
I lost the *itch* to hot rod some time back. But it is starting to come back on me. I wish I had a clunker to work on and play with right now.
A 68 Falcon pulled up into the parking lot the other day, and all I could do is think about all the things I could do to that car. I love sleepers.
The Wife needs a new car, and I am thinking of giving her my Lexus and either picking up a new Mustang GT500, or a clunker and doing all manner of bad things to that.
Man, when the bug bites,...it really bites.
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Congrats Gray Eagle! Time for you to post some pics of your new ride. I live in Surprise and am a member of Arizona Corvette Enthusiasts.. check it out if ya like.
http://www.arizonacorvetteenthusiasts.net/arizonavette/forums/index.php
A couple of pics of my '86. modded 383. Now.. let's see a couple pics of yours, please?
Lowered it after this pic
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/AZC4guy/IMG_0171.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/AZC4guy/IMG_0176.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/AZC4guy/IMG_0202.jpg)
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Originally posted by Grayeagle
well Skuzzy ..
Superchargers use a belt to drive 'em . the more boost you want, the more hp it's gonna take to make it pushin that belt to compress the air.
They are effective at however much the bottom end can stand. Some Top Fuel engines have turned 15 *thousand* rpm with those huge blowers up top. So far .. no turbo motor has made a dent in top fuel.
The reason I mention top fuel is.. the fastest car wins. Only limitation is 500 cubic inch max motor size .. so if a turbo could do it .. it would.
They cant.
However .. a turbo works very well ..and a twin turbo on a V-8 means ya got one for each bank ..waste gate can keep the boost from poppin head gaskets at the high end, and a turbo can be built to come on at idle and hit the gate at engine redline ..you can even plumb nitrous into 'em so there is no lag (lag is inherent due to first you punch it, then the turbo spools up causing increase in boost ..whereas supercharger is pumpin more air in at idle to begin with .. and it just gets crazier when ya punch it, bein directly driven off the crankshaft = no lag) Of course .. you gotta do somethin to keep the bearings cool and lubed ..they deal directly with exhaust heat, and they spin purty fast.
Turbo is more efficient, due to no belt. Lot more plumbing required.
Gale Banks makes a nice 1000hp small block chebby ..twin turbo. Callaway useda make some nice turbo kits too ..along with others.
Turbo's are nice, .. but .. I'd rather be blown -evil grin-
No lag, right off idle effective, right to engine redline, low maintenance.
-GE (just somethin about havin 'supercharged' lettered on the rear facia :)
Turbocharging is illegal in the Fuel and Alcohol classes. It has been done, and can be done, but the power is nearly unmanageable. I've been hanging with Scott Palmer, who runs a Top Fuel car, a company I do work for sponsors him, along with his main sponsor Grande Crown Resorts and Travel. A lot of fun, and a learning experience.
Most all of the LSX series stuff we do is crankdriven centrifugal, and the cool thing about it is the near instant response, if your tune-up is right. The turbocharger setups are most often way more expensive and complex, and harder to tune. The crankdriven stuff is bolt on and easy to deal with.
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It is an impressive looking mill.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g308/txflood77598/LS1_5_7L_mg22.gif)
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We drove a Vette back in the early 80’s. It was one of the best Chevy’s we ever had.
(http://www.MyOnlineImages.com/members/goalyeb/images/vette.jpg)
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*nice* C4!!
Wife and I went down to C'nV vette's to get a nice '87 C-4 red coupe they had there for 11.5k .. but .. there was *no* way I could get *into* it ..the frame rail by the door sill, front and rear of door openings, and roof rail are all just not big enough for me to fold up into.
Wife asked Jack Haley (sales guy) if there was a newer one for not a lot more ..and we went over to look at the gorgeous '98 black bullet we ended up buyin. I was *very* surprised when we started crunchin numbers .. even the insurance for full coverage only came to $20 a month more than our Durango. Payments are $250/mo .. beatsa crap outta most new cars I can think if ...heck that's cheaper than we could have gotten a Honda Accord for :) ..and a *lot* more fun to drive :)
Truly .. if you want pix .. there are a lot of C-5's for sale at C'nV ..
(I have no idea where my camera is (Canon T-70), been packed for 10+ years now.. I should get a digital :)
http://www.cnv-corvettes.com/
..they have some nice cars there for sure :) ..and that payment calculator on their car pages turned out +/- a dollar to what the payments actually came out as.
We made a run up I-17, hung a left to Prescott ..then hiway 89 to Wickenburg thru the twisties .. oh man. What a slot car! I don't think I wanna know what it takes to corner this Vette hard. By the end of 'em I was runnin 35-40mph thru 'em with no squeals, no complaints from the car at all .. some yahoo in a trundle car began behind us . . started fishtailin a little and slowed way down .. we lost him about the half way point entirely.
(these are 20mph an slower hairpins, switchbacks, right-lefts mostly descending ..for about 20 miles or so .. lots of fun and no traffic, was near sunset when we began, and dark when we bottomed out of 'em.)
I can't beleive I own it when I walk out to it :)
-GE (I'll drop by the forums for that vette club .. lookin to join one for cruisin an such for the comin year :)