Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Yoshimbo on December 13, 2006, 12:19:18 PM
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Now i know good and well this is nothing new, but it nvr rly occurred to me just how badly the japanese planeset is lacking, until now.
I was setting up the motd of a room i was about to host, a IJN/JAAF vs USN/USAAF scenario. and when i got through w/ the american planes, i saw that they had 17 of them unlocked:
A20
B26
P38G
P38J
P38L
P40B
P40E
P47D-11
P47D-25
P47D-40
P47N
P51B
P51D
F4F
F4U-1
F4U-1A
F6F
But what rly shocked em was when i went to set up the Japanese plane set:
A6M2
A6M5b
Ki67
ki61
ki84
D3A
B5N
7 planes total...SEVEN! wow
Besides the Russians, who dont even have a bomber(and only 4 fighters), the Japanese are lacking aircraft badly!
This is what i would suggest:
A6M3a "Hamp"
Ki-43 IIb Hayabusa "Oscar"
J2M3 Raiden "Jack"
Ki45 Toryu "Nick"
Ki44-IIb "Tojo"
D4Y3a Suisei "Judy"
B7A2 Ryusei "Shooting Star"
G4M2 Model 22B "Betty"
P1Y1 Ginga "Milky Way"
Ki100 Hien
And if we ever get seaplanes:
A6M2-N "Rufe"
H8K2L "Emily"
Here are some production numbers:
A6M3 "Hamp" - 560 to 903+
Ki-43 IIb Hayabusa "Oscar" - 2,500 to 5,919
J2M3 Raiden "Jack" - 260
Ki45 Toryu "Nick" - 1,690 to 1,700
Ki44-IIb Shoki "Tojo"- 1,167 to 1,675
D4Y3a Suisei "Judy" - 536
B7A2 Ryusei "Shooting Star" - 80
G4M2 Model 22B "Betty" - 1,154
P1Y1 Ginga "Milky Way" - 996
Ki100 Hien - 390 to 396
A6M2-N "Rufe" - 327
H8K2L "Emily" - 36
resources:
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/
http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijna/
http://www.warbirdforum.com/toryu.htm
http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/kawasaki_ki45.htm
http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/ww2htmls/
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I agree we should at least have the Betty.
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The Betty doesn't give you much more than the Peggy (Ki-67) does now - 1,000Kg bombload vs 800Kg, and it is slower to boot. I think Betty would end up being another hanger queen.
The J2M5 wouldn't be bad - at least is has the 4 x 20mm cannons and maybe enough power to compete with the late war rides. Same for the Ki-100 - although slower than a lot of late war rivals in level flight, it was supposedly quite manueverable and yet controllable in a high-speed dive (think Japanese FW190). Might be a bit of a surprise for some of the F4U boys in that one.
The Ki-45 would be an interesting addition, but we'd need a late variant like the Kai-B with the 37mm cannon to make this ride lethal enough to take out. The early models had 2 x 12.7s and 2 x 7.7s, which pretty much makes you easy meat.
The B7A2 (Grace) wouldn't be a bad addition - carrier based, with 2 x 20mm and a decent load (800Kg) of torpedo / bombs might get this ride some use. It has a decent speed for a bomber as well.
EagleDNY
$.02
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It's not all about the MA is why.
Some of us fly scenarios and fso. Thats why the betty should be included .
Bronk
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These I really would like to see:
J2M3 Raiden "Jack"
Ki45 Toryu "Nick"
Ki44-IIb Shoki "Tojo"
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I agree that we need loads of new Japanese planes. (and Russian planes also)
J2M3 Raiden "Jack"
Ki45 Toryu "Nick"
Ki44-IIb Shoki "Tojo"
All good choices, and I'd like to see them here asap. We also need the Oscar, simply because there were so many of them built and used. I know its under gunned for the main, but it would be an awesome addition for scenarios & the early war arena's.
Ki-43 IIb Hayabusa "Oscar" - 2,500 to 5,919
D4Y3a Suisei "Judy" - 536 Would also be a welcome addition to the CV fleet and much more capable than the Val.
And of course I've been wanting the H8K Emily for as long as I've been flying online. 10 years now and still no flying boats. If the Emily is that scary give me the little sister Mavis!
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D4Y3 "JUDY"
(http://earth.endless.ne.jp/users/mac0115/D4Y3.JPG)
:aok
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Judy, Judy, Judy.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Bronk
It's not all about the MA is why.
Some of us fly scenarios and fso. Thats why the betty should be included .
Bronk
I'm just pointing out that for HT to model and skin a plane probably takes a lot of man hours. Scenarios and FSO are fine (I fly em too), but it might be hard to justify spending a lot of man hours (read money) creating rides that will get little use inside the arenas.
To get the most bang for their bucks (and to perhaps make as many customers as possible happy at the same time), I'm just saying that the Ki-100 / J2M5 / Ki-45 might be better choices to add to the planeset first.
EagleDNY
$.02
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Yep, I'm guessing that from a cost effectiveness standing a lot of these will have to wait until the Pacific ToD (fingers crossed for the Solomons).
-Sik
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We can't even remotely set up a proper japanese scenario because the only bomber we have is a LATE WAR beast that flies faster than most fighters in the game. The Betty may not carry more of a bomb load, but it was slower, more vulnerable. It was an early/mid war plane that could actually be caught by enemy planes. That's the most important reason we need it.
Oh, and the Judy because... uh.. just because.... Judy Judy Judy!!!!
P.S. You want the Ki100 fly the Ki61, it performed better.
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The Betty may have been slower than the ki-67 but it was more heavily armed wasn't it? at least the G4M2 Model 22B, thats why i listed that model, it was mass produced and had a better defensive armament and engines than the earlier ones which hopfully = better survivability
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Originally posted by Krusty
We can't even remotely set up a proper japanese scenario because the only bomber we have is a LATE WAR beast that flies faster than most fighters in the game. The Betty may not carry more of a bomb load, but it was slower, more vulnerable. It was an early/mid war plane that could actually be caught by enemy planes. That's the most important reason we need it.
Oh, and the Judy because... uh.. just because.... Judy Judy Judy!!!!
P.S. You want the Ki100 fly the Ki61, it performed better.
We've got the Kate already - Betty only carries one more 250kg bomb, and there isn't much that can't catch a Kate (I know, I've flown em in the scenarios).
I'm with you on the Judy - it's fast enough and has enough bombload to maybe get some use.
Ki-100 climbs faster, and although the top speed is a little less than the Ki-67, from all accounts I've read it manuevered a lot better and kept it together in a high speed dive so that they actually catch and shoot up some of that big blue American iron. They've got one example where a batch of Ki-100s shot down 14 F6Fs with no losses, which makes me certainly wonder what it's like to fly.
I'd take the that extra 300Hp and figure I could put it to good use ;) Think Japanese FW190, and although the top speed might be close to the ki-67, it'd be a different animal.
EagleDNY
$.02
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Originally posted by EagleDNY
Think Japanese FW190, and although the top speed might be close to the ki-67, it'd be a different animal.
EagleDNY
$.02
IMHO
When I think "Japanese FW190" I picture the N1K2 .
Bronk
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KI-43 :D iie desu!
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Originally posted by EagleDNY
Ki-100 climbs faster, and although the top speed is a little less than the Ki-67, from all accounts I've read it manuevered a lot better and kept it together in a high speed dive so that they actually catch and shoot up some of that big blue American iron. They've got one example where a batch of Ki-100s shot down 14 F6Fs with no losses, which makes me certainly wonder what it's like to fly.
This myth has been debunked here several times...
The battle this bogus claim is referring to occured on July 25th, 1945 over Yokaichi Airfield. 18 Ki-100s bounced a group of 10 Hellcats. The Japanese were at 12,000 feet, the F6Fs were down around 5,000 feet, strafing and rocketing the base. In the ensuing fight, two F6Fs were lost. One in a collision with Captain Tsutae Obara. Both pilots were killed. Ensign Herbert Law's engine was hit by ground fire, causing the windscreen to be obscured by engine oil. Unable to see, he evaded long enough to crash-land his Hellcat. IJAAF Warrant Officer Shin Ikuta was shot down and killed by the F6Fs. Low on gas and ammo, the remaining 8 Hellcats returned to their carrier. Japanese pilots claimed 12 F6Fs destroyed. Navy pilots claimed 8 Japanese aircraft shot down or destroyed on the ground. Actual losses were 2 lost and 2 damaged for the Americans. Japanese losses were 2 lost and 3 damaged, one of which crash-landed on Yokaichi field. Several Japanese aircraft were left burning on the field resulting from the Hellcats strafing. Gun camera film revealed that 3 utility aircraft had been set ablaze by the F6Fs, and several more unidentified aircraft were damaged to some extent.
Over time, this engagement has been embellished to inflate the Japanese claims and ignore the fact that two Ki-100s went down and another shot-up Ki-100 was wrecked in a forced landing.
In reality, the Japanese force, nearly twice as large as the American force, attacked with the advantage of altitude. Despite being handed a significant disadvanage, the Navy pilots scored as well or better than the Japanese and were able to disengage at will.
The Ki-100 was a fine fighter for early 1942.. By 1945 (when it appeared) it was obsolete and little more than cannon fodder.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by parin
KI-43 :D iie desu!
dame desu. ki-44 ga hoshiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiii:D
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Widewing, you mean 50cal fodder, right? :t
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Originally posted by Krusty
Widewing, you mean 50cal fodder, right? :t
Literally speaking, yes.
I also agree with you that the Ki-61 negates the need for the Ki-100. The biggest difference between the two was simplicity of engine management and increased reliability of the radial engine. However, in AH2 our engine management is already as simple as it gets and engine reliability is not modeled.
The only advantages associated with the Ki-100 may be improved rearward vision and no radiator to leak coolant. Countering that is increased drag and reduced vision over the nose.
I for one would much rather see the J2M3 or J2M5 and the Ki-44, both of which would get plenty of use in the various MAs. HTC may well do the Ki-43 for CT, but it would probably see little use outside of the Early War Arena.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
This myth has been debunked here several times...
Over time, this engagement has been embellished to inflate the Japanese claims and ignore the fact that two Ki-100s went down and another shot-up Ki-100 was wrecked in a forced landing.
In reality, the Japanese force, nearly twice as large as the American force, attacked with the advantage of altitude. Despite being handed a significant disadvanage, the Navy pilots scored as well or better than the Japanese and were able to disengage at will.
The Ki-100 was a fine fighter for early 1942.. By 1945 (when it appeared) it was obsolete and little more than cannon fodder.
My regards,
Widewing
I didn't know the details on that battle WW - guess thats what I get from reading history off the internet ;) For certain we all know the tendency of pilots to inflate numbers.
Perhaps the better solution for the Ki-67/Ki-100 debate would be simply to upgrade the Ki-67-Ia to the Ki-67-II and give it the later model engine. The Ki-67 with the 1,175Hp (read Ha-40 / DB605 copy / Me-109E) engine I just don't see as getting much use. With the 1,450Hp (read Ha-140 / DB605A / early Me-109G) engine, and the upgraded cannons available on the -II models, maybe that would bridge the gap and the Ki-67 would see more widespread use.
Frankly, I think we have the best of the Japanese planeset now with the Ki-84 and the Niki, although I really would like to see the Ki-84-Ib and -Ic cannon packages available as well. The J2M5 I would give a try, but I think it would be inferior to the Niki in most respects.
The Ki-44 would be an interesting addition, but there are so many variants of it that would have to be modeled for it to be useful. The early models that they would need in the scenarios are badly undergunned, so you would need to model the later cannon-equipped variants as well if you wanted to see the ride get some use in the arenas. The good news is that there are a lot of interesting variants and cannon loadouts, so it would see a lot of action. I'm just not sure HT is up for modeling 5 or 6 different production versions of the Ki-44 for us.
EagleDNY
$.02
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The Ki-44 would be the finest interceptor we can have for the Japanese planeset. IMO this is basically a cannon-less Ki-84 with very high rate of climb and it doesnt suffer from shedding parts at high speeds.
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Hey Yoshi
I was hosting one of those too, I had to do
USAAF/USAF vs. Japan +USSR+Germany
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Ki-84-Ib
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I agree i didn't read all of the posts but we do need more jap and russian planes. need the:
J2M3 Raiden "Jack"
Ki45 Toryu "Nick"
Ki44-IIb "Tojo"
G4M2 Model 22B "Betty"
At least
russian
dont know of very many
but the
yak1 and yak3
but they need more than we have
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I think HT have a problem to built Japanese and Russian planes because of
lack of resources. US, German and British sites are much more detailed than
sites of other countries. Is this the main problem ?
I don't think it is because HT don't like Japanese and Russian planes, right ?
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Just a list of some Japanese bomber during WW2.
Kawanishi H8K 'Emily' (Its a sea plane, but its got one heck of a defense, and carriers 4409Ib of bombs or 1764Ib of Torpedoes. Also a transport version.)
Mitsubishi G3M 'Nell'
Mitsubishi Ki.21 'Sally'
Mitsubishi G4M 'Betty'
Nakajima Ki.49 Donryu 'Helen'
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Info On Betty (http://www.angelfire.com/fm/compass/G4M.htm)
Info On Betty (http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-air-support/ww2-enemy/betty.htm)
Info On Betty (http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijna/g4m.htm)
BETTY SPECS (http://www.btinternet.com/~lee_mail/Betty.html)
LOOK AT ALL THESE, it should get ya started HTC
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No offense spikes, but I think HTC will be looking for primary sources for modelling aircraft.
-Sik
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none taken, but yea, was thinking about that after i posted, it gives him some type of start though
:aok
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lol i would want the Oka MXY8 "Oka Kamikaze"
(http://www.wing21.rtaf.mi.th/wboard/52254719525.jpg)
the mxy8 Model11 was powered by 3 type 4 rockets and carried a 2,200lb warhead:D
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wes, is that because you cant fight
i can teach you if you want lol
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i can fight kinda good i just like to see ppl's faces when a lil kamakaze plane takes out their CV's :D
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right now i doubt you can kill a cv with just 1 kamakazie
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i dunno exactly how many it would take but it would still be funny to see them scrambling to see wtf happened
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Originally posted by spikes
right now i doubt you can kill a cv with just 1 kamakazie
lol lancastuka with 14k bombs released 800 above cv = 1 kamikaze
Bronk
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lol