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General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Nomak on December 13, 2006, 07:53:47 PM

Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Nomak on December 13, 2006, 07:53:47 PM
My current tube is dying.  I am under the impression that CRT is going away.  Which makes me not want to buy one.  When checking out LCD's on Newegg they have some specs that I dont understand.  They say 5ms or 8ms or 4ms..... what does this mean?  What else do I need to know about LCD's to make a good decision on one.  Or should I stick with CRT?

How do widescreens work with AH and other flight sims?  Seems like they can be had for around the same cost as a normal screen.

Any info/education is really appreaciated.

Thx.... Dave
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Eagler on December 13, 2006, 08:06:00 PM
I haven't seen a lcd stay as blur free as a crt does in close a2a .. I have had a 8ms and now a 6ms lcd.
that said, I can live with the blurring on my latest lcd, a 24" widescreen  ... DELL UltraSharp 2407WFP (http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/302/Dell+Ultrasharp+2407WFP+24+Widescreen+LCD/)
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: TequilaChaser on December 14, 2006, 06:19:57 AM
Nomak,
I replaced my 21" CRT with a DELL Ultrasharp 19" 1907, it is a smidget from being the same screensize as my old 21" flatscreen CRT. IT has yet to blur on me, and  frame rate stays maxed at my monitor resloution for most part, dipping to low 50's in furballs/smoke/gv's/fires etc...

am on an old AMD2800XP/ 1 gig Ram / Ati9800Pro 128meg vid card......1024x768 512 textures.......

me Lady, she got a cheap AOC 19"  for $229.00 on newegg a year ago and it performs almost twice as good as my DELL......with the same specs......she plays WOW and EverquestII.....

I have not seen any blurring ( well not after I loaded the correct LCD monitor Drivers )

also the HEAT factor the CRT's put off vs the LCDs is great, no more sweating after sitting infront of big CRT screen all day or night.......


Good Luck with ya Purchase
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: CptA on December 14, 2006, 10:48:43 AM
I was a long-time fan of large CRTs vs. LCD displays, but once I made the switch, I have never looked back.

Here are some of the advantages of an LCD screen over a CRT:

1. Less desktop space (especially depth) is wasted.
2. Lower power consumption, so less heat is generated.
3. Larger display area as compared to an equivalent size CRT.
4. Unlike a CRT, the Pixels don't fade between refresh cycles, so there is less eyestrain.

To expound on number 3 above...
An LCD does not have the large dark borders around the screen display area like a CRT, so the displayed picture is usable all the way to the bezel or frame of the monitor.
Also, the methods for measuring an LCD's size are different. A 19" LCD has about the same display area as a 21" CRT.
However, a standard 19" LCD has more display area than a 19" widescreen LCD.

Here are some of the disadvantages of LCDs as compared to CRTs:

1. Generally lower contrast.
2. Somewhat lower brightness.
3. Some pixel bluring in rapid motion sequences.

All of these deficiencies can be avoided by focusing on the monitor's specification during purchase. More below.

Another thing to note is that an LCD works best at a single "Native Resolution".
A standard 19" LCD usually has a native resolution of 1280 x 1024 pixels.
 Changing the display resolution to anything other than the native resolution will still work, but it will result in a loss of display quality.
This is a physical limitation of the technology relating to the dot-pitch of the pixel cells.
Best to leave it set at the native resolution unless the game won't support it.

So what should you look for in an LCD monitor?

1. Size - Bigger is better. Minimum 19", 21" to 23" is better.
2. Pixel Refresh Rate - Lower is Better. Minimum 8ms, 4ms is better.
3. Pixel Pitch - Smaller is better. Minimum .295mm, .265mm is better.
4. Contrast - Higher is better. Minimum 500:1, 700:1 is better.
5. Brightness - Brighter is better. Minimum 300cd/m², 400cd/m² or higher is better.
6. Both Digital (DVI) and Analog (15-pin VGA) input connectors.
7. Front panel mounted controls.
8. Fully adjustable for ergonomics - Height, Tilt, Swivel, and Rotation (Landscape vs. Portrait).
9. Stick with a Brand name you recognize. NEC, Dell, Samsung, Viewsonic, etc. Quality and service are generally better.

How much should I spend?

This is relative...how much did you spend on that old CRT when you bought it?

Like anything else, you generally get what you pay for, so shop around and compare prices.
Try not to shop on the basis of price alone, and be prepared to spend in the neighborhood of $250-$500 or more if you can afford it.

Good Luck!

CptA
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Nomak on December 14, 2006, 05:51:22 PM
OK LCD it is:)

Some great replys there fellas.  I really appreaciate it.

Dave
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: TW9 on December 14, 2006, 08:43:59 PM
ya lcd's are cheap now i bought mine from newegg for around 186.. i was getting 300+ frames out of it with no issue but i had to but the lock on it just incase lol.. now i got the limiter on so a steady 60-61fps pretty much always..
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: nickf620 on December 15, 2006, 03:02:58 AM
i didnt see anything about hsi question on what 4ms 8ms etc. means


these are the refresh rate
ms miliseconds if im not mistaken
so 4 ms for your screen to refresh
lower is better
lower you get the faster frames it can support
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Flash on December 15, 2006, 07:41:46 AM
I just bought this one from tiger direct. it is nice but it is not cheap.



Acer AL2423WR / 24" WIDE / 6ms / 1000:1 / WUXGA 1920 x 1200 / DVI · VGA / Silver / Widescreen LCD Monitor (A179-2404)
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Nomak on December 15, 2006, 03:30:08 PM
Is there any disadvantage to using a widescreen?

Dave
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: 1K3 on December 15, 2006, 03:46:59 PM
Samseong 931BW beats the rest of of the competetion when it comes to LCD display.  Most gamers recomend Samseong displays.


(http://i10.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/7d/c1/e1c2_1.JPG)

SPECIFICATIONS

Screen Size:
19” Widescreen!

Resolution:
1440x900@75Hz

Brightness:
300cd/m2

Contrast ratio of 2000:1...higher than any other LCD

Ultra fast 2ms response time

NOTE:  USE DVI cable to get the the widescreen support and the best screen resolution
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: 1K3 on December 15, 2006, 03:48:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nomak
Is there any disadvantage to using a widescreen?

Dave


only if you want to add a picture on your background that is not in widescreen format:D
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: CptA on December 15, 2006, 03:54:31 PM
Well, as I pointed out above, a widescreen LCD monitor has less actual display area than an equivalent standard LCD.

So, if you buy a 19" widescreen, you'll actually get less screen area than a 19" standard screen.

Aside from that, some games do not support the native resolutions of widescreen format LCD monitors, which means that you would have to play them at some other setting, and with some loss of display quality.  

However, most recent games fully support the widescreen format.

To get the most from your hardware, make sure you download and install the latest video drivers for your video card, and the driver .inf files for your new LCD monitor from the manufacturer's website.

CptA
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Nomak on December 15, 2006, 06:50:06 PM
I am thinkin this one......

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824001088
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: 1K3 on December 16, 2006, 01:43:37 AM
hmmm Samseong 931bw and 941bw...

I'm still wondering why Samseong still sells 941bw if they already came out with the 931. 931 has 4x more contrast ratio and 2 ms faster response times.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: DAVENRINO on December 16, 2006, 03:38:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by CptA
Aside from that, some games do not support the native resolutions of widescreen format LCD monitors,
CptA


You mean such as AH?
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: 1K3 on December 17, 2006, 02:23:27 AM
I just bought a Samseong 941 BW widescreen monitor.  The default contrast-brightness settings are TOO HIGH!  When you buy a samseong monitor  the contrast/brightness control must be lowered.  My current setting for my 941BW is 25/100 for brightness and 35/100 for contrast.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: NOT on December 17, 2006, 06:36:56 AM
i bought a 19"widescreen for AH, didnt like it. went back to my samsung 930b.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: BlauK on December 18, 2006, 04:44:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Nomak
Is there any disadvantage to using a widescreen?

Dave



In AH you will see less visible area vertically, if you use a wide screen ratio :(

However, you can also set AH and your monitor to run with AH's normal 4:3 ratio and leave black bars to the sides of your screen.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: mipoikel on December 18, 2006, 05:00:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BlauK
In AH you will see less visible area vertically, if you use a wide screen ratio :(

However, you can also set AH and your monitor to run with AH's normal 4:3 ratio and leave black bars to the sides of your screen.


This depends on what is your LCD monitors resolution.

19" LCD is 1280 x 1024 pixels.  

usually 19" Wide screen is 1440x900 pixels. In that case you get less vertically.

But, for example Blauks laptop has 1680 x 1050 resolution, he gets 26  pixels more vertically than in normal 4:3 19" LCD. :aok
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: BlauK on December 18, 2006, 05:25:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by mipoikel
This depends on what is your LCD monitors resolution.

But, for example Blauks laptop has 1680 x 1050 resolution, he gets 26  pixels more vertically than in normal 4:3 19" LCD. :aok




IIRC, AH always shows max horizontal view and then either cuts or adds vertical view (from default) according to screen ratio.

Mipo,
on my laptop 1680x1050 (16:10 ratio) the vertical view is only 83% of the normal (4:3) vertical view area. (I dont mean pixels, but view angle)

On my desptop lcd 1280x1024 (5:4 ratio) I see about 7% more vertical view than on normal 4:3 ratio screen.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: DAVENRINO on December 18, 2006, 01:25:19 PM
I definitely lose a lot of vertical view area @ 1920x1080 on my 58" so I run AH @ 1280x1024.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Helrazr1 on January 02, 2007, 09:47:38 AM
If you are going to get an LCD, you want one with 5ms latency or less, I played AH on one with *ms, and it definately had some blur to it .
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Brenjen on January 02, 2007, 09:55:05 AM
I have a 19" 2 MS LCD & I still get some blur, mainly on the names of fast movers that are close to me. But it's not a huge issue, I like my LCD & it was cheap at Newegg & got to me in under 24 hours.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: loony1 on January 02, 2007, 11:22:39 AM
this is mine ACER 22in wide screen....$350
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/lunatic_33/B000HAR8UI_01__SCLZZZZZZZ_V39088043.jpg)
5ms responce set at 1280X1024....Awsome...super clear picture.runs AH smooth:aok
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Brenjen on January 02, 2007, 11:24:27 AM
That's what I have only it's not widescreen (didn't like that some pages don't display properly) & mine is the 19" 2 MS response. Good LCD for a good price. My model is the AL1916
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Nomak on January 02, 2007, 07:16:30 PM
I did buy the monitor I linked to.  I am very happy with it.  Glad I didnt get another crt to be honest.

AH is beautiful @ 1440x900

Dave
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Brenjen on January 03, 2007, 07:05:19 AM
How does the widescreen look on web pages? In AHII?
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Nomak on January 03, 2007, 07:02:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Brenjen
How does the widescreen look on web pages? In AHII?


Some pages look strange and some just look real wide lol.  It only takes a few days to get used to.

I currently am flying 3 Different sims.  AH2, Falcon4AF and BOB2WOV.  All 3 of them support my native res of 1440x900.  All of them look great.  Like I said I am very, very happy with the purchase.  Espically for 200 Bucks.

Dave
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Brenjen on January 03, 2007, 07:34:33 PM
That's great man, glad you're happy with it.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Seafit on January 08, 2007, 03:56:38 PM
I'm not sure if anyone is still reading this thread but....can anyone give me their opinion on the Samsung 971P?

Spec is
19" (not widescreen)
Contrast ratio 1:1500
Resolution Native 1280 x 1024
Brightness 250cd/m2
response time 6ms     <<<<
If I've read correctly 6ms may not be good enough for AH and I think I read somewhere that samsung achive the 6ms through some clever software (that doesn't always work the way it is supposed to - sorry, can't be more specific as I forgot where I read that).

My wife has been bugging me to ditch the huge 20" CRT for a while but if I do I want to make sure the replacement is good enough for AH.

Thanks for any replies
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: republic on January 08, 2007, 09:23:55 PM
I have a 6ms Samsung Syncmaster 205BW.  The 6ms produces very little blurring, usually the only time I ever notice is from something black to something very light...

No matter which LCD you get though, it will not seem as "fluid" as your CRT did.  I don't notice it anymore, but when I do play on a CRT I'm left thinking "Boy...this is smooth".  But the other benefits of LCD vastly outweigh that one small irritation.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Spatula on January 08, 2007, 10:02:42 PM
I was thinking about getting a LCD monitor sometime in the near future. Tell me if i get a LCD screen which has an 'optimum resolution' of 1280x1024 (like most 19" 3/4 screens), but ran AH at the lower res of 1024x768 (due to better framerates), would it not look as good as at its 'optimum resolution' or is that really only an issue for text etc???
Title: CRT or LCD
Post by: CYLONN on January 09, 2007, 12:40:36 AM
Changing from a CRT to an LCD, I searched for many months before settling on the Samsung 931C, which replaces the 931BF.
It has great picture quality, no blurring and low 2ms respnse time.
This monitor is the official monitor of the World Cyber Games and once I tried it out, it was easy to see why.
It plays AH2 with no blurring, even in close combat.  Takes a little bit for your eyes to make the adjustment to the difference in brightness and color vividness compared to a CRT.

Newegg sells this for under $300.  Order by noon and pay $3.00 for rush order and  receive it  NEXT day, w/o paying extra for priority shipping.
If you've been skeptical up to now about switching from CRT, this is a very good monitor to take the plunge on.:aok
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Nomak on January 09, 2007, 07:59:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Spatula
I was thinking about getting a LCD monitor sometime in the near future. Tell me if i get a LCD screen which has an 'optimum resolution' of 1280x1024 (like most 19" 3/4 screens), but ran AH at the lower res of 1024x768 (due to better framerates), would it not look as good as at its 'optimum resolution' or is that really only an issue for text etc???


No, it will not look as good.  Whatever res LCD you buy plan on running things at that res.

Dont let that turn you off of LCD's though.  Its worth the couple of bad LCD things to get all of the good LCD things.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: republic on January 09, 2007, 08:32:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Nomak
No, it will not look as good.  Whatever res LCD you buy plan on running things at that res.

Dont let that turn you off of LCD's though.  Its worth the couple of bad LCD things to get all of the good LCD things.


That is true.  Sometimes a higher quality LCD can make lower resolutions look a little more appealing...but anything not native will always look "blurry".

Really AH should be able to run at high LCD resolutions with most any dedicated 3d card.  But if your  computer lacks the horsepower, you might could upgrade.  If you have an AGP slot, a Geforce 6600GT or 7600GS might be the best 'bang for your buck'.  If you have a PCI-Express slot, there are many many well priced cards to choose from.

The better field of view that a widescreen LCD offers, is amazing...once you go widescreen you can never go back.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Spatula on January 09, 2007, 02:08:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nomak
No, it will not look as good.  Whatever res LCD you buy plan on running things at that res.

Dont let that turn you off of LCD's though.  Its worth the couple of bad LCD things to get all of the good LCD things.


How much worse will it look? If i was to buy a 19" LCD then i would have to upgrade my video card and/or CPU to get more framerates - or reduce the detail settings (....nooooooo...). Either that or get a 17" LCD which has a native 1024x768, but i really prefer my desktop being bigger than that, and dont want to have to replace it with 19 in 12 months.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: republic on January 09, 2007, 02:52:12 PM
1024x780 will not look "horrible" sampled up to the 1280x1024, but it will not look near as good as a CRT at 1024x768.  Basically like 'zooming in' on a digital picture.

Myself, I'd rather run the 19 inch at 1024x768 and make do until I eventually upgrade later, or make do with the occasional fps drop and run it at native 1280x1024.  The difference between 17 and 19 doesn't sound much...but boy it sure does look nice.  Better still, would be a widescreen...
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Spatula on January 09, 2007, 03:05:27 PM
Yer, i def prefer a 19 over the 17... Might have to look at upgrading both the monitor and trying to get better FPS out of 1280x1024. Sigh... its never easy.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Brenjen on January 10, 2007, 07:22:32 AM
The worst thing I have found about the switch from CRT to LCD was my eyes. The LCD screen leaves my vision very blurry after a few hours, the CRT would cause them to burn after a long session but it's like they were trained to see that high speed refresh line that the cathode ray gun drew on the screen or something...it's weird & I can't explain it but the LCD does seem to have a negative effect on my vision for some reason & they are supposed to be better for your eyes lol
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: republic on January 10, 2007, 08:38:25 AM
Hmm, it's just the opposite for me.  I have to spend most of my day in front of a computer screen, and after switching to LCD it was amazing relief!  CRT's always seemed to go dark on me after a couple years of use, I just retired my first LCD after 5 years of great performance...only retired it because it's 15 inches were just too small.

But, if you are running the LCD at something under native, it can definitely make you feel like your going blind!  lol  Much like my LCD HDTV trying to display SD content.  :-\
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: DAVENRINO on January 13, 2007, 02:49:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by republic
SNIP-The better field of view that a widescreen LCD offers, is amazing...once you go widescreen you can never go back.


Sorry republic but I couldn't disagree more for AH.  I played AH for 2 years on a 50" Panny 1280x720 display and the last 14 months on a 58" HP 1920x1080p.  I use 1280x1024 because of AH's terrible field of view in a widescreen res. This has been previously discussed many times.  The view is wider but chops off the top and bottom of your field of view. The bottom row of panel instruments is gone and you have to go to your fwd/up view much sooner.  It is less problematic with a Track IR. I just bought a 19"1280x1024 LCD for my Guam rig and intentionally avoided 19" widescreens for nearly the same price. You need at least a 21" widescreen for the same real estate as a 19" 4:3.

All that said, AH looks AWESOME @ 1280x1024 on my 58" widescreen with my Hawaii rig:D
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Skuzzy on January 13, 2007, 03:05:14 PM
The problem with the 16:9 aspect ratios and Aces High II has to do with field of view, as it pertains to DirectX.  Most games use a 75 degree fielf od view (FOV).  First person shooters are notorious for this.

It helps keep the frame rate up by cutting the distance shorter, faster for objects.  To get to 16:9 aspect ratios, they simply switch to 90 degree FOV.

The wider the FOV, the father away the objects can be and still be detailed.  Aces High uses a 90 degree FOV, by default.  If you take it any wider, which you would have to do fir a 16:9 aspect ratio, then DirectX creates a fish bowl effect.  It looks atrocious.
---

I detest LCD screens.  They have yet to make one which can outperform a high end CRT.  Unfortunately, you cannot get a high end CRT anymore.  Damn shame too.  I keep looking at the LCD crap and it is still crap.  The best LCD models made are still far short of the quality of my CRT at home.

Now, I am pretty critical of monitors.  I have seen what many consider good, and I consider it crap.

There is one thing an LCD cannot do that a CRT can.  Produce precise color.  It cannot be done on an LCD today.  And it gets worse if you try it at different resolutions.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Brenjen on January 13, 2007, 03:26:46 PM
I use the digital vibrance on the rivatuner program, but I agree even with that the color is off & I can't seem to get it adjusted to be on par with the CRT, that & the slight blurring of names on fast moving ID tags are the two things I noticed the most with my LCD. Even being a 2ms response time unit it still blurs a bit. But all in all it's still not bad.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: DAVENRINO on January 13, 2007, 03:35:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
The problem with the 16:9 aspect ratios and Aces High II has to do with field of view, as it pertains to DirectX.  Most games use a 75 degree fielf od view (FOV).  First person shooters are notorious for this.

It helps keep the frame rate up by cutting the distance shorter, faster for objects.  To get to 16:9 aspect ratios, they simply switch to 90 degree FOV.

The wider the FOV, the father away the objects can be and still be detailed.  Aces High uses a 90 degree FOV, by default.  If you take it any wider, which you would have to do fir a 16:9 aspect ratio, then DirectX creates a fish bowl effect.  It looks atrocious.
---

I detest LCD screens.  They have yet to make one which can outperform a high end CRT.  Unfortunately, you cannot get a high end CRT anymore.  Damn shame too.  I keep looking at the LCD crap and it is still crap.  The best LCD models made are still far short of the quality of my CRT at home.

Now, I am pretty critical of monitors.  I have seen what many consider good, and I consider it crap.

There is one thing an LCD cannot do that a CRT can.  Produce precise color.  It cannot be done on an LCD today.  And it gets worse if you try it at different resolutions.


Skuzzy,
I remember your previous explanation of this subject.  AH looks great on a widescreen as long as it is BIG enough.:D
There is some good info on widescreen gaming at this site-
http://forum.tigerdave.com/viewforum.php?f=1

I agree with you about CRT vs LCD.  My 22" Mitsubishi in Guam died and I needed a cheap replacement that I could drag out there on the airplane.  Besides I only play AH in Guam once a month at most.

I do love my DLP as a monitor.  The colors are vibrant and accurate.  This set has an advanced RGB color setting specifically for PC input through HDMI.  BTW, (OT) we had a discussion when I got it about whether it would actually accept 1080p from future sources.  It does. I use a 1080p upconverting Oppo DVD player and others are using 1080p Blue Ray and HD DVD players with this set.  It was a gamble since this was the first set to accept 1080p through HDMI. I have had my PC connected through HDMI @ 1080p from day one.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on January 14, 2007, 12:09:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by republic
Hmm, it's just the opposite for me.  I have to spend most of my day in front of a computer screen, and after switching to LCD it was amazing relief!  CRT's always seemed to go dark on me after a couple years of use, I just retired my first LCD after 5 years of great performance...only retired it because it's 15 inches were just too small.

But, if you are running the LCD at something under native, it can definitely make you feel like your going blind!  lol  Much like my LCD HDTV trying to display SD content.  :-\


I have a 19" CRT at home on my computer.  Cost me all of 119 bucks 4 years ago when my last 21" Sony died.  As long as it keeps going it wont be replaced, and I'll shop for a used CRT before I'll buy an LCD for it.  I have LCD's at work and half of them have died after just over a year of service.  The power supplys fried on each and every one.  Simple to get to and replace, but they dont sell them as replacement parts.  Go buy a new monitor.  Perhaps my stuff at work gets used a bit harder than home computers, but I have 2 there left that are still using CRTs, both of which are over 8 years old and run 24/7.  One is starting to show some signs of burn-in, and will have to be replaced soon, but that one is the oldest and is 12 years old.  Given my experience thus far, I dont see CRTs going away as a good thing.  :(
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: mipoikel on January 14, 2007, 10:09:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
I have a 19" CRT at home on my computer.  Cost me all of 119 bucks 4 years ago when my last 21" Sony died.  As long as it keeps going it wont be replaced, and I'll shop for a used CRT before I'll buy an LCD for it.  I have LCD's at work and half of them have died after just over a year of service.  The power supplys fried on each and every one.  Simple to get to and replace, but they dont sell them as replacement parts.  Go buy a new monitor.  Perhaps my stuff at work gets used a bit harder than home computers, but I have 2 there left that are still using CRTs, both of which are over 8 years old and run 24/7.  One is starting to show some signs of burn-in, and will have to be replaced soon, but that one is the oldest and is 12 years old.  Given my experience thus far, I dont see CRTs going away as a good thing.  :(


Maybe you should buy better quality LCD's? Dont buy cheap...
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on January 14, 2007, 12:11:27 PM
Considering each of the LCD's in my office that I've had to replace cost over 400 each, I didnt think of them as cheap.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on January 14, 2007, 12:16:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Considering each of the LCD's in my office that I've had to replace cost over 400 each, I didnt think of them as cheap.


They were cheap for LCD. $800 and upwards for the quality stuff.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Brenjen on January 14, 2007, 02:40:03 PM
$800 & up means you're shopping at the wrong places.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: republic on January 14, 2007, 02:56:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
[BI have LCD's at work and half of them have died after just over a year of service.  The power supplys fried on each and every one.  Simple to get to and replace, but they dont sell them as replacement parts.  Go buy a new monitor.  [/B]


I agree, LCD's seem much more prone to problems than CRT's, but CRT's have had a long time to mature.  I have just begun to transition to LCD's at work, and have quickly discovered that the name on the box means nothing.  I've had expensive Samsungs die while 'cheapo' Acer's plug along like they are new.

You can get a good quality "office quality" 19inch LCD in the 200-300 range.  Anything more than that and you really need to have an artistic reason to be spending that much.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on January 14, 2007, 03:20:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Brenjen
$800 & up means you're shopping at the wrong places.


Or just shopping for el-cheapo tech when professional quality comes at a premium.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Brenjen on January 14, 2007, 07:04:47 PM
No, for $800 your shopping at the wrong place. You can get a quality LCD for less than half that in the 19" range. Three years ago your statement would've been valid. Today that's not the case. You can get 24" widescreen Sonys, Samsungs & NECs for $800
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Skuzzy on January 14, 2007, 07:28:12 PM
Define quality?  The only LCD I have seen which comes close to my exacting requirements is a 24" 16:10 aspect ratio and costs around $1,500 U.S.  List is at $1,800.00.

Yes, you can get a 24" fpr $800, but it is not nearly good enough, to me, to replace a high quality CRT unit.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Brenjen on January 14, 2007, 07:35:04 PM
Define quality: "quality manufacturer"

There are no LCDs that I'm aware of that can match the CRT for picture quality, but they are coming. We're talking about units burning out inside of a year. My dads little 15" is still kicking & it's 3 years old. I got my Acer just a few months ago, I'll report back when this under $200 low brow brand 19" LCD is still going at the 1,2 & 3 year marks.:aok
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Wes14 on January 14, 2007, 07:43:12 PM
yea not to sound dumb but whats a CRT

and Plasma screens r better then LCD :D
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on January 14, 2007, 08:42:05 PM
This is what we use at work .............

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824116060

Except that I have to buy them local.  I'm not arguing about picture or anything else.  For work, a monitor is a monitor is a monitor.  It just has to be big.  These do the job just fine, and if they lasted longer I'd have no problem with them.  I understand that there are people who have cheaper ones that last for years.  I'm saying that I've got 6 of these, 2 older CRTs and a large plasma at work.  The CRTs are slowly being replaced as needed (and the 12 yr old one surely needs it soon, the burn-in makes for interesting reading when I change screens).  The LCDs are being replaced because they die.  The vendor is saying they have this problem with LCDs that run 24/7 (like mine) ALL THE TIME (and not just this brand), and that they would recommend CRTs for such applications but cant get them.  I'm guessing its a heat dissipation problem, probably one that could be easily solved but would cost more money.  I think the concept is wonderful and I love the space I'd save on my desk at home if I used one.  I just dont think the quality is there yet.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: 1K3 on January 15, 2007, 02:20:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Wes14
yea not to sound dumb but whats a CRT

and Plasma screens r better then LCD :D



and plasmas use 4X more power than CRTs.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: Helrazr1 on January 16, 2007, 12:54:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Wes14
yea not to sound dumb but whats a CRT

and Plasma screens r better then LCD :D


CRT = Cathode Ray Tube, they are the big bulky monitors that look more like a traditional tv than anything else.

much like the post above stated, plasma's do use about 4X the power of an lcd, but have other disadvantages too.  You would not want a plasma to play this game.  Plasma's, much like CRT's will suffer from the "burn in" effect.  Meaning, if you tend to fly one plane quite frequently, you will begin to see all of the instrumentation on your screen all the time.

I know a guy with a big, beautiful 50" plasma tv.....watches CNN all the time, and now, no matter what's on tv, that image of the ticker at the bottom of all CNN broadcasts is always at the bottom of the screen.

 I don't think that I would ever want a plasma for a monitor.  TV's are a different story, but IMO, would be a bad idea for AH.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: F4J on January 16, 2007, 05:33:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
I have a 19" CRT at home on my computer.  Cost me all of 119 bucks 4 years ago when my last 21" Sony died.  As long as it keeps going it wont be replaced, and I'll shop for a used CRT before I'll buy an LCD for it.  I have LCD's at work and half of them have died after just over a year of service.  The power supplys fried on each and every one.  Simple to get to and replace, but they dont sell them as replacement parts.  Go buy a new monitor.  Perhaps my stuff at work gets used a bit harder than home computers, but I have 2 there left that are still using CRTs, both of which are over 8 years old and run 24/7.  One is starting to show some signs of burn-in, and will have to be replaced soon, but that one is the oldest and is 12 years old.  Given my experience thus far, I dont see CRTs going away as a good thing.  :(


How do you diagnose the power supply on an LCD? I have an expensive LCD 19" wide screen that also has a TV tuner in it. I could watch TV down in the corner or full screen. I used it as a second monitor and could play AH on my big CRT and watch the Military Channel on the LCD at the same time. The LCD faded out on me. When it went, it would come on for a second, dim out and go black. After a couple of times of that, it just came on for a fraction of second and went black (like a capacitor discharging) and after that it just stays black. I'd like to take it apart and fix it, vs. paying for new one. I wouldn't mind paying to have it repaired if it was less than paying for a new one.
Title: CRT or LCD?
Post by: DAVENRINO on January 17, 2007, 04:31:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Helrazr1
SNIP- I don't think that I would ever want a plasma for a monitor. TV's are a different story, but IMO, would be a bad idea for AH.


I was just wondering how you came to this opinion.  Obviously, you have never seen AH on a Quality High Definition Multi-Media display.

My DLP was designed to accept PC inputs through VGA and HDMI inputs.  I would put its picture quality up against almost any large  CRT or plasma.  You wouldn't believe how beautiful High Def Windows Media Files are at 1920x1080p from my PC.  AH is AWESOME on this set with full 5.1 Surround Sound. The cockpit instruments  are huge and crystal clear - easily read from 8' in my recliner. My DLP doesn't suffer from motion blurring or burn-in.

BIGGER is better.  Using this calculator-

http://www.cavecreations.com/tv2.cgi

My display is 1012.3% larger in widescreen mode and 521.2% larger at 4:3 with black side bars compared to a 19" 4:3 display. The difference is even greater compared to a 19" widescreen.

Overall, I don't see how using my display for AH is a "bad idea".


TV's are a different story, but IMO, would be a bad idea for AH.