Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Fianna on December 15, 2006, 06:16:06 PM
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When you see a countryman in trouble, and you try to help him, is there anything expected from him?
The reason I ask, is because a couple of times recently, I've flown in to help a teammate who is outnumbered by 1 or 2, only to have him fly away and leave me fighting 3 cons. I've only been playing for a few weeks, so I don't really know if I should expect him to stay and help. So, should I expect them to leave or stay?
Thanks.
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You can expect nothing in return, but if he/she does stay and help, you most likely made a new friend. :)
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Unless I have severe battle damage, if someone were to come help me when I needed it I would stick around and see it finished.
But that's me.
Mark
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You really can't expect too much, I'm like Mark where I'll stay until we're out or dead :lol
Sometimes those are the funnest fights for me personally, too many people that play worry about their individual stats. There was a day when 98% of the people you came in to help stuck around. That number is much lower now I think....
It's a game, if you end up in a 3 on 1 because the guy you helped bailed on you then finish what you can and get a fresh ride....they're all you can crash for $14.95 a month :D
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My advice would be to never enter a fight you can't exit, or win. An old squad mate of mine would chew people out this. When you burn all your advantage to help, only to see they guy get shot down before you can help, only gives the enemy another easy target.
You can help someone out that is in a 1v2 or 1v3 by diving in without engaging. This can force an enemy or two break off to deal with you. This can give the guy a break to exit, or position for an attack. If he decides to exit, you then can decide if you want to stick around or find a better fight.
Gunner
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There are two polar opposite mindsets there :rolleyes: :lol
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It varies greatly depending on who you save. As a rule, don't expect too much, and you won't be let down. On the upside, as time goes by, you'll start to recognize people, and be recognized, and you'll probably find more people who do stick around or return the favor.
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Originally posted by DaPup
There are two polar opposite mindsets there :rolleyes: :lol
Suffice to say, true. ;)
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here's what to expect
killshooter
cause while you are lining up to clear his six he will reverse and jump right in front of you as you pull the trigger.
i hate you LTARghst
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
It varies greatly depending on who you save. As a rule, don't expect too much, and you won't be let down. On the upside, as time goes by, you'll start to recognize people, and be recognized, and you'll probably find more people who do stick around or return the favor.
Yup, that's part of my, "Tips to Living In Complex Engagements" post in the help forum. Do I expect noob #584231 to live long enough to be worth helping? Or be of any real help even if he does stick around? Or stick around at all? Nope...
But, I do know Old Vet #15 and expect him to acknowledge my intent to help and advise me if he knows he's screwed and won't live even if blow all of my E to come help, or if he's low ammo/gas and needs me to scare 'em off his tail so he can make a break for it, or stay around and join me in opening up a big hairy can of whip-ass.
The beauty of this game is every situation is different, there's no blanket rule for most people that covers every possible example of a situation, communication and knowing your friends' propensities is the key...
Think of your E in terms of economics it is the finite resource in AH. Make good investments and try to avoid bad investments of your E. Conversely, be a good wingie/teammate and save others from making bad investments, communicate and advise others when not to bother blowing E. If all your teammates conserve maximum E you will collectively be maximally effective relative to the enemy in your local combat patrol area.
Zazen
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Originally posted by DaPup
There are two polar opposite mindsets there :rolleyes: :lol
I don't think so. I want to get kills, and I don't want to get killed. I will help anyone out the best I can. I fly to have fun. How about you? :)
Gunner
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Well said Zazen.
Gunner
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If someone leaves me high n dry (after they're getting ganged), they no longer get help and I don't forget names. But I'll always ask if they need help.
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what happens to me alot is i'm in a fight 1v1,in control and some one jumps in and tries to help..screws the fight up and i get shot down. please..you see me in a 1v1...stay out or ask me if i need help. i also realize that many are playing the rank game and dont really wanna get dirty. they wanna get in and out as clean as possible.go home and land the kills. seeing thier name in lights means alot to many. so rely on no one.
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I've helped and have been helped. I usually ask for help or ask if help is needed. I ask first because I've been accused of being a cherry picker and a kill stealer before. I never intended that.
I've stayed to help finish off the nmy, but I've also flown off because of not having ammo or too injured to do anything. At those times, if asked, I'll wave off help. I'll also explain why I'm leaving you on your own (ie, no ammo, pilot wound) if you decide to jump in anyway.
I'll probably leave you to your fate if you're burning oil, leaking fuel or you're a roman candle. You should probably do the same. The person you're helping is probably in no condition to help you fight.
Key point I'm making is that you should ask before helping. Most vets will tell you "no" if they have it under control or if they're gonna bite it shortly anyway.
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Originally posted by GunnerCAF
I don't think so. I want to get kills, and I don't want to get killed. I will help anyone out the best I can. I fly to have fun. How about you? :)
Gunner
Gunner, I was merely commenting on our 2 answers. There are almost exact opposites, I'm not trying to mock a style of play. The game is what each person makes of it, I would rather die in the fights than cart my butt all the way back to the field...I'm lazy :D
I will say that alot of the time when someone dives down to "help" me with a zoom pass they make a beeline for the bogey on my 12 and not my 6 :lol
Another good point brought up is to ask first, I don't care about stealing my kill (I should have killed him quicker) but if I know I'm toast I'll say to just leave me alone...unless I don't like you then I'll ask you to come on in. :aok
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dive in kill the bad guys ,, save the princess ... Works for me ..
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Thanks for all the replies!
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I help all other players based on the following criteria....
1) Can I save him.....
2) Is he communicating with me....
3) Do I have some reason not to die....
4) does it look like fun....
Normally all I need it one of four and I'm in.....
There are a few players I will not help because they have a reputation for hanging and picking and do not help others....but that is the exception to the rule. 98% of the time I'll clear anyone's six....
75% of the time I chop,dump & rumble.....after all I fly stupid:aok
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I'll ask first if they want help. If so I'm in. If they are getting mugged, I kinda like throwing myself in front of the bullets to try and get the muggee clear, even if I die.
But I'm kinda goofy that way.
I don't expect anything in return. I'm having fun either way :)
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I'm like masher, once I help you and get left high and dry, I'll never help you again.
But I'll usually ask a guy in a 1 or 2 on 1 if he needs help before cutting in, more than that I usually just hop in and tackle the nearest one to try and break it up.
Even been known to just cut across the turn at 400+ and zoom right back up, sometimes that scares the crap out of them enough to help the friendly do something. :D
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Ill auger a 262 to help a squad mate...
Depending upon who's needing saving ill do almost anything for a fellow rook..
I wouldnt pee on some of them if they where on fire though.
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Communication seems to be the key here. I ask before I dive in (realize that the friendly may have his hands full and not be able to reply) and take into consideration the situation and decide.
Sometimes, just making a high speed pass will be enough to give the friendly a chance to make a break for home or obtain a firing solution on the nearest enemy without putting yourself in a bad position.
Fly smart!
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It would be nice if they stuck around damage / ammo dictating but this is Aces High so I DON'T expect anything.
If I'm in watermelon street after helping a guy in a 3 v 1 then more fool me:rolleyes:
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I know I usually will let my help know if I have to bug out and why so he doesn't think I just left him high and dry for no reason. "I'm out, ammo/damage/fuel/scared sill", whatever. At least he knows hes on his own, isn't expecting me to give assistance that I can't give.
Not like I'm much halp anyway... :rolleyes:
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What Zaz said--- if I see some 4342355 guy down there in a 1 on 12, I might do a 500 jug mph swoop thru the mess to help him out, but not if it gonna get me kilt...if it Shawk, Killnu or someone whom I KNOW wouldnt have done something stupid like that on purpose, I'll dive into the fight and stay (unless they holler go save urself, I'm not a kamikazee after all;) )
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there are two types of pilot that i dive into a fight alongside.
Friends - want to help them and get them home safe even if i die.
Bait - well, sorry. lol
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
there are two types of pilot that i dive into a fight alongside.
Friends - want to help them and get them home safe even if i die.
Bait - well, sorry. lol
:rofl
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"When you see a countryman in trouble, and you try to help him, is there anything expected from him?"
As some of the other people have pointed out, you're foisting a moral burden on the other player that he did not ask for. He might not even realise that you are trying to help him, as he will have his hands full in the fight. He might be spitting blood that someone did not help him earlier. Or he might be an ultra-humanite who has the enemy right where he wants them.
There have been times where I have been hard-pressed, cursing that no-one is coming to help me, but I always try to bear in mind that perhaps someone *is* trying to help me, or perhaps I am beyond help, or the other players are occupied, and in any case why should they help me in particular? Other people might be in danger. Emergency service workers are trained so that, when confronted with a dangerous situation, they should not become casualties themselves in their eagerness to help.
There is something to be said for diving at the enemy in the hope of putting them off, although eventually the surprise factor will wear off, and some players might not even notice that they are being buzzed. My greatest fear nowadays is the new Spitfire 16 player on my tail, because he is unlikely to check behind him for a counter-pursuing enemy and he will probably out-turn me and spray me down. My other greatest fear is any Corsair above me.
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If a fellow countryman asks first I'll say yes or no. If I say yes I'll stick around to help. That said, depending on what I'm flying, sometimes I need to get some seperation to effectively re-join and I'll try to let him know that. If I say no or he doesn't ask there's no guarantees.
If he asks I might tell him I'm trying to get home (low ammo, fuel, damage, etc.) so he knows once I'm cleared I'm bugging out.
Most of the vets are pretty good at communicating in these situations.
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I hate it when people think i need help.........meatsheilds..... ...:D
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
there are two types of pilot that i dive into a fight alongside.
Friends - want to help them and get them home safe even if i die.
Bait - well, sorry. lol
follow me from now on ;)
in all seriousness I'll help any contryman in need if I can... I expect nothing in return.
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I'll jump in and help but expect nothing in return. Complaining about not getting help after you dived in is like complaining about not getting a check 6 after you get bounced: ultimately, YOU are responsible for your own arse.
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This is a "depends on the circumstances" kind of answer. As a general guideline, I will help where, tactically, it is up to, and maybe a little past, prudent to do so.
Do I expect him to stick around? If he can reasonably contribute to the fight, then yes. If he can't, so be it, take'r on home. Just let me know.
However, circumstances may dictate that I don't assist, even when asked. My aircraft and mission at the time and my possible responsibility to a larger effort. And condition of aircraft, of course. But I won't leave someone in the lurch without a very good military reason.
There is one situation where I'm likely to fly on by, and that is when I discover this reason as to how and why the guy in the situation in the first place. He dove in helter skelter into 6 bandits near their airbase "for the fun of it", looking for quick scalps and a chill thrill. Expect me to pull you back off the cliff your jumping? Not bloody likely. You're on your own buddy. Have a nice day.
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If there mom is single then I expect a picture and phone number..
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Originally posted by Fianna
When you see a countryman in trouble, and you try to help him, is there anything expected from him?
The reason I ask, is because a couple of times recently, I've flown in to help a teammate who is outnumbered by 1 or 2, only to have him fly away and leave me fighting 3 cons. I've only been playing for a few weeks, so I don't really know if I should expect him to stay and help. So, should I expect them to leave or stay?
Thanks.
I know your pain. used to frustrate the hell out of me helping people just to have them fly off leaving you to deal with whomever.
I am finding morethat as people are more familiour with me and know I will help they more often then not stick around and help back.
Part of it might be your as of yet a relitive unknown.
I still get people who fly away from time to time but mostly names I am unfamiliour with
typically when Im comming to help I'll radio out a "Hang on (pilot name) Im comming"
In a 1 V 1 fight I'll ask if they want help first. Then loiter a bit just in case.
If someone calls for help Ill often do so even if it puts me in a bad place.
If I dont help its either cause for whatever reason I cant. Pilot wound/ Fuel/ammo Or didnt hear the call.
Anyway. Point being. Just hang in there.
Help when you can. dont when you cant.
As people become familiour with you. You will find them more willing to work with you.
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Hmmm, if I need your help, im already screwed. Id use your distraction to get 2k of seperation, contact you on vox and coordinate a return attack on them now that I am in a position to make a thought-out strike.
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I like to think of this game as a team effort, so if i see a lone 1v1 near me i'll usually dive in and try to help out. Usually i'll hold back the kill of we both end up on the bandit's tail because i figure the other guy was here first and i dont want to look like a kill stealer :)
But the way i see it, if the bad guy goes down in flames, then we both win. Be nice if there was a way to high five your wingman... maybe tap wings? lol.
Imo, if you want to 1v1 exclusively then you should find a quiet area or go the the duel arena.
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consider this if someone is helping you...
A) are they well known pickers?
b) did they check6 you or say on vox they were coming to help?
Ive had cherry pickers swoop down to "HELP" lose all their E and than die to the guy I was fighting. I kinda laugh as I fly away at the sheer Karma of it all, than i reverse and kill the guy who was on me to begin with (since i now have an alt advanatge) Thanks for the help :aok
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Originally posted by Fianna
When you see a countryman in trouble, and you try to help him, is there anything expected from him?
The reason I ask, is because a couple of times recently, I've flown in to help a teammate who is outnumbered by 1 or 2, only to have him fly away and leave me fighting 3 cons. I've only been playing for a few weeks, so I don't really know if I should expect him to stay and help. So, should I expect them to leave or stay?
Thanks.
Used to be I had a mental list of countrymen who had done that with me and I didn't bother to help them a second time. Same with 6 calls. Since the many changes over the last few months it has become harder to recognize/remember players.
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When help is needed it can be hard to find unless you dont need the help. :(
lmao! i've been chased by half the arena I'm looking for help, finely see someone coming my way only to watch them fly over and disappear in the sunset, the only time a good cherry picker would be nice to have around. sigh...
Then when i'm on some ones 6 300 feet away from their rudder and have things under control seems help is everywhere, tracers flying past my cockpit and the whole time im wondering how they are not getting killshot? doh!
Or the old problem of chasing someone around the sector for 10 minutes by yourself and finely get on their 6 and some one outa nowhere does the 400 mph hero dive cuts in front of you, then you get a bead on the bad guy and send them to the earth and the 400mph cherry picker starts yelling ,,,, who stoled my kill! funny stuff! tee hee! not! :p
And if someone does help me when im in need of help, it dont matter if im bingo ammo, low on fuel, flames shooting out my tail, I stay to help even if that means I have to ram someone (and take the ram whines) :p No ammo? ram em! thats my motto!, fly interference, or just get in the way and blind them with flames and smoke. :)
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Had a situation last night where I was exiting low on fuel in my Seafire. I've got a Spit XVI boom and zooming me with an N1K and a C205 5k and closing on me.
SSV comes by high and asks if I need a hand, I said sure as I knew I was quickly going to be in a 3 on 1. (thanks by the way)
I don't think there was anything expected of me but I wanted to be clear to RTB, this was what followed.
I kept dragging the spit out and away from the horde so the 3 on 2 wouldn't get worse. After two passes by SSV, the Spit turned and left. N1K and 205 were now close. I set the tunnel versioned 205 up for an easy kill for SSV and now our 3 on 2 is a 2 on 1 for us. I turn to engage the N1K, letting SSV know I'm back in. I know SSV has burnt off some E saving my skin and may not have ideal positioning anymore.
Unfortunately for me I made a mistake on the merge allowing a ho shot which saw a bunch of 20s through my cockpit leaving me quite dead and feeling like a tool.
Not sure how it ended up but the N1K I'm sure didn't last long after my death.
You can't always count on the guy you're coming down to save to be smart but I'd say before you commit, talk on channel and see what the situation is before you commit. Had I been banged up or in a no win situation I would have called off the help. In this case I never saw the help coming until it was called out, was too busy looking behind.
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Few things I'd like to mention:
1) If you are dragging, please don't do it at altitude. All you are doing then
is dragging high, fast bandits to your "help".
2) If someone is trying to clear you, jink instead of break turn. Small
corrections done quickly and randomly are just as effective as huge
energy burning flat turns.
3) If someone is doing you the favor of clearing your six, ALLOW THEM
FIRST PASS ON THE BAD GUY! Trying to "steal" the distracted bandit
as the friendly rolls in is poor sportsmanship and potentially dangerous.
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Originally posted by Fianna
When you see a countryman in trouble, and you try to help him, is there anything expected from him?
The reason I ask, is because a couple of times recently, I've flown in to help a teammate who is outnumbered by 1 or 2, only to have him fly away and leave me fighting 3 cons. I've only been playing for a few weeks, so I don't really know if I should expect him to stay and help. So, should I expect them to leave or stay?
Thanks.
Yep been in your shoes more than once....
Some ppl will stay and help some wont, I prefer to be part of the solution, not the problem....
there have been times that I have started an RTB with no ammo and a fuel leak, see a friendly in a fight and joined to help... Its amazing how you can stay on a cons six when your not trying to hit him... Made more than a few auger...
If you see a plane with the call sign "mussie" feel free to ask for help, hell I will jump into a furball with a bomber if I have to
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I try to help my fellow country men when I can, most of the time Im at 22k in Lancs though. But last night, very L8, I was coming back off a nice high alt drop, coming down I ran into some trouble, 3 cons, took 2 out, the third had maybe a fuel leak, out of ammo in tail, top turret was gone, and my only plane was a mess. Trying like hell to make it bac, when 2 friendlies showed up, and took out the hunter. Very kewl doods, escorted me back 3/4 sector home. :aok
Hats off to the blokes.
Thanx, when I really needed it.
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I expect nothing but i hope the other guy makes it rtb alive and lands his kills, THAT is the intention when i go in to help.
If the other guy kills the three bogies, helps me kill them or gets out and home doesnt matter to me... i help so he has the chance to rtb.
So if he gets home and lands and the 3 guys tear me up and i die, that is what i expect and hope for.... well, of course i hope killing them but i perfectly know that most probably i will die, since i am one lousy pilot.
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38's are big.... yall can hide behind me.......
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All I ever hope for is a "Thanks Stampf, Good job man." Anything more is just bonus.
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Example of the "Bonus" factor:
Spotted a low fight last night and rolled in to see a friendly taking on three bish in one of the valleys between two of the high mountain ranges on the current Late war map. As I engaged the FM2 the friendly (Razor) informed he was sorry but he was wounded and woudln't be much help.
I cut the FM2 in half.
Over shot the Typhie but managed a slow roll over him and re-aquired and relieved him of his wings.
The Mustang, I managed a nice side angle shot on fuselage which led to his fiery demise in the trees.
Razor to Stampf, "Nice freaking job Stampf!"
Looking up I saw multiple contacts approaching from Bish area.
Stampf to Razor, "Let's get the heck outa here." "Yeah"
Razor was 3.5 ahead of me as we turned for the nearest Knight barn. Looking back I knew we wouldn't make it. Stampf to Razor, "Bandits are closing fast." Razor, "Copy, vis."
Now I'm thinking we're buttered as the 3 Typhies and 1 Mustang closed like rockets on my wepped out ole 190. Stampf to Razor. "Go ahead bro, they're closing fast, I have to break and fight, Good luck sir." Knowing I wouldn't be landing my kills for the squad this time, I pulled up hard and banked my Focke Wulf into the fight again. I didn't last long and ended up riding my bird down into the mud. Back at the tower I was smiling to myself about the fight, and my selfless sacrifice of cyber life. Looked at the country buffer:
Razor: Stampf...Great flying.
Stampf: U2 Razor.
Razor: Sorry. I was pilot wounded. You really saved my arse.
Stampf: No prob sir. Great Fight.
Razor: Thanks again.
Smiling I grouped up with my buds and went out for more...
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Originally posted by daddog
You can expect nothing in return, but if he/she does stay and help, you most likely made a new friend. :)
Could not have been better said.
Obviously Dad is having fun with the game because of his perspective.
DaddyO :)