Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Treize69 on December 17, 2006, 06:47:15 AM
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-983033761863370916&q=fighter+squadron+movie&hl=en
:O
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Now those la7 pilots wondering why their la7 isnt that sexy. :D
Thanks for the video. :aok
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Yes, Russia has improved their aircraft considerably since their miserable efforts during the Second World War.
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Mig 29?
Whatched one performing it "thrust vectoring tricks" this year at Fairford...........
Manouver called the "cobra" pretty impressive
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
Yes, Russia has improved their aircraft considerably since their miserable efforts during the Second World War.
Yak3, Yak9, La5 & La7 were all first class fighters, & would have given any Brit or US plane a run for their money at low to medium altitude which is where they were designed to fight.
The reason the La7 gets so much stick in AH is because it's such a good plane - easy kills for anyone - if we assume HT modelling is accurate.
German fighter pilots were told not to engage Yak3 unless couldn't avoid.
Main problem with Russians, especially early on was poor quality & training of pilots. OK, early VVS planes were poor but P40 & F4f weren't exactly world beaters.
I use the Yak9u quite a bit & imho it's as good an all round fighter as any as modelled in AH; does nothing brilliantly, but everything well, so can often exploit other guy's weaknesses.
Regards
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Originally posted by Tilt
Mig 29?
Whatched one performing it "thrust vectoring tricks" this year at Fairford...........
Manouver called the "cobra" pretty impressive
I think thats an Su-37, upgraded version of the Su-27 Flanker. About twice the size of a MiG-29 and just as nimble.
(http://www.atmonline.cz/analyzy/superman/su37.jpg)
(http://aeroweb.lucia.it/rap/MAKS95/pn_x157.jpg)
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Originally posted by Whisky58
Yak3, Yak9, La5 & La7 were all first class fighters, & would have given any Brit or US plane a run for their money at low to medium altitude which is where they were designed to fight.
The reason the La7 gets so much stick in AH is because it's such a good plane - easy kills for anyone - if we assume HT modelling is accurate.
German fighter pilots were told not to engage Yak3 unless couldn't avoid.
You'll excuse me if I don't believe such stuff coming from a Communist country - as a matter of fact, "the" Communist country, the Soviet Union. They make the Germans look positively honest about their test data. And the reason Germans were not to engage the Yak was because the Me-109 was even more unmaneuverable than the Russian junk.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
You'll excuse me if I don't believe such stuff coming from a Communist country - as a matter of fact, "the" Communist country, the Soviet Union. They make the Germans look positively honest about their test data. And the reason Germans were not to engage the Yak was because the Me-109 was even more unmaneuverable than the Russian junk.
another brainwashed tardling...
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I can only hope he is just trolling...
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I remember reading a story about P-38s meeting Yaks, when the war was over. I dont remember the out come or the story. If my memory serves me right I believe the 38s had a hard time with the Yaks (not sure)... I know some of you know this story. Could you please clear it up for me.
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Yes that is an Su-37....what us westerners call the Terminator :)
Might I also point out that the Russians have been able to consistently create fighters that are a match for pretty much anything we have?
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IMO .... Yep...they copy stuff well ;-) (see B-29 opps TU-4)
Serioulsy, the Soviets "were" very handy at "Making Do" with what they had. The Mig-25 used highly advanced "tube" manufacturing to withstand high altitude temperatures. A Very nifty problem detection system for gound maintenance crews and where aerodynamics weren't important, exposed rivets. And if the missles and guns didn't kill ya...the radar could ;-) Shielding? whats that?
Its low alt performance couldn't touch an F-15, however once it hit 40,000+ feet it could out perform the F15 hands down. Of course, this is what it was designed for, B-52 bomber interception.
The dominance factor of Jet Fighters these days has very little to do with the Jets Dog Fighting (that is last resort tactic these days) but more to do with the Missles, on-board avionics and counter measures. Being able to track 8+ separate targets and shoot them down from 80 miles out ( see F-14 Tomcat) was why the Soviets built so damn many Migs. They figured if they launched 10 v 1 they would win the 2 v 1 that was left.
"Quantity has a quality all its own." - Stalin
China aided them greatly in the 80's when the Sino-Soviet realations reached a point that allowed some exchanges of technologies. With the technilogical advances in the computer control systems and avionics the Soviet aircraft became much more capable with features like thrust vectoring, computer aided flight controls and multi-target fire control systems.
The biggest difference in mindsets was: The Soviets built for special purposes the US started building for Multi-Purpose-Use (see defunct F-20 and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter....argh ;-( )
Since the last Soviet/Russian planes manufactured were back in the 90's there have been no significant advances in last 10 years. Now the competition is between the US and the EU ( see EuroFighter ). Which fighter is more generic THAT is the question? ;-P
Softail.
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
another brainwashed tardling...
Well, that's not something I would be admitting to people if I were you.
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Benny Moore
Ami's answer to Kurrfurst. LMAO
Bronk
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Call me a liar, will you? Stinking Kraut!
Originally posted by Jebus
I remember reading a story about P-38s meeting Yaks, when the war was over. I dont remember the out come or the story. If my memory serves me right I believe the 38s had a hard time with the Yaks (not sure)... I know some of you know this story. Could you please clear it up for me.
Two P-38s were lost, but two Yaks were lost also. The Yaks had superior numbers and the advantages of surprise and flak support.
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Originally posted by Jebus
I remember reading a story about P-38s meeting Yaks, when the war was over. I dont remember the out come or the story. If my memory serves me right I believe the 38s had a hard time with the Yaks (not sure)... I know some of you know this story. Could you please clear it up for me.
82nd FG and their 38s ran into Yaks on November 7, 1944 running ground attack missions in Yugoslavia. They were strafing a convoy which turned out to be Russian.
Yaks were scrambled to protect the convoy and opened fire shooting down a 38. There were a number of Yaks downed (Russians admitted to 3 Yaks down) as well as a couple more 38s.
It was needless to say a bit of a mess for the higher ups to have to take care of.
It later happened to the 359th FG and thier 51s when they had a bit of a brawl with the Yaks downing 9 for no loss. More hurt feelings. If the 359th history is to be believed, Stalin had the surviving pilots shot, and expected the USAAF to do the same
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
Call me a liar, will you? Stinking Kraut!
Whoa there junior. I never said you were a liar. Just think you remind me of an american version of kurrfy.
Blind obsessions with a particular AC makes for silly postings.
I'll let you figure it out
Bronk
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I know Kurfurst well enough. Kurfurst wasn't just blindly obsessed with his Messerschmitt, he was also deliberately dishonest. I've caught him in many bold-faced lies. Calling me an American Kurfurst is calling me a liar.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
I know Kurfurst well enough. Kurfurst wasn't just blindly obsessed with his Messerschmitt, he was also deliberately dishonest. I've caught him in many bold-faced lies. Calling me an American Kurfurst is calling me a liar.
You're not a liar ... a liar is not suposed to be ignorant like you are.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
Call me a liar, will you? Stinking Kraut!
Two P-38s were lost, but two Yaks were lost also. The Yaks had superior numbers and the advantages of surprise and flak support.
In the incident described by Dan the Yaks had inferior numbers......... they attacked the lower tier of three squadrons (95th,96th,97th)of 60 x 38's from the 82nd fighter group 3 38's were lost one definately by flak.
The 6 x Yaks climbed straight to the 38's and engaged immediately losing 2 of their own number.
The top tier of 38's had reported the Yaks scrambling immediately after the 38's had attacked the Russian column.
Yaks were from 659 &866IAP who flew Yak 3's at the time.
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I saw the Mig29 live at Belin last spring. That plane simply seems to defy all laws of physics.... its awesome!
Even though a F16 pilot we talked to later commented: Yeah, its cool. But in a real fight, ill just launch my missiles from 60 miles out. He wont even see me... all that fancy thrust vectoring wont help him much. But it sure is impressive and looks cool on an airshow.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
Yeah, its cool. But in a real fight, ill just launch my missiles from 60 miles out. He wont even see me... all that fancy thrust vectoring wont help him much. But it sure is impressive and looks cool on an airshow.
Thats assuming his missiles work.
Murphys Law of Combat #12- Always remember that your weapon was made by the lowest bidder.
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I don't know if Benny is a liar, but I do think him an idiot. His argument with Tony W. in the MK 108 thread is especially retarded.
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the yak3 may arguably be the best fighter design for it's intended role in WWII. if HT ever modelled it the whines from us luftwabbles, pony drivers spittards and Ladweebs would reach the heavens. I believe you may still order one from the yak factory. the soviets apparently never discarded the tooling for the fighter or it's engines.
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Yeah you can still buy a brand new Yak-3m, but they are Allison powered.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m256/Freestate0/Yak-3m-9.jpg)
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
You'll excuse me if I don't believe such stuff coming from a Communist country - as a matter of fact, "the" Communist country, the Soviet Union. They make the Germans look positively honest about their test data. And the reason Germans were not to engage the Yak was because the Me-109 was even more unmaneuverable than the Russian junk.
It's always a pleasure to read a well informed and balanced post, free from prejudice, bigotry or xenophobia.
:)
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Never understood why HTC bothered with the Yak-9U, just give us the Yak-3. Saw wider service anyways. Not quite as fast, but better handling.
Commie devils. :cool:
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squire, weren't the yak3s was delivered long after the introduction of the various 9s in squadron service? I was under the impression that the 9 saw for more service than the 3 did.
viking, I did not know that the current yak3s were allison powered.
I know that there are still many allison engines available for sale. on our last visit to kermit week's restoration facility they had 27 reportedly un-used allison V-1710s still in their original crates.
was the klimov not a derivative of the hispano-suiza 12Y? those were relatively underpowered compared to the allisons. the use of the allison would make it a better performer especially if they are utilizing the later allison models such as the V1710-143/145 engines.
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You'll excuse me if I don't believe such stuff coming from a Communist country - as a matter of fact, "the" Communist country, the Soviet Union. They make the Germans look positively honest about their test data. And the reason Germans were not to engage the Yak was because the Me-109 was even more unmaneuverable than the Russian junk.
The statement above is truly a hallmark of what kind of wonderful knowledge you could contribute to these forums.
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Yeah Storch, that's why they use the Allison in the new Yaks. Not many working Klimovs around today. Apparently the Allison is an easy fit too; not much needed changing.
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found a great site for the yaks
http://www.vectorsite.net/avyak1.html
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The data supplied by Stalin's USSR is very suspect. It's well known they severely fudged the Kingcobra's performance numbers vs. aircraft built in the homeland by Communist workers. Stalin wouldn't appreciate any aircraft produced by capitalists outperforming ones engineered and built at home.
Not wanting to start an arguement with the experts, but the Soviets supplied very innacurate information about their aircraft used during WWII; partly in self-defense of course, in order to make their equipment look to be on-par with what the West was fielding next door to them at the time.
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Originally posted by Viking
Yeah you can still buy a brand new Yak-3m, but they are Allison powered.
"Makes note...planning for the future...I forsee a huge expenditure of money on a certain aircraft, followed by a huge expenditure of money on an engine swap (Merlin), followed by an unsatisfactorily low gain on an Allison engine sold on Ebay :)"
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I wonder just how good todays Tiffy will do against the rusky beast ?
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Originally posted by storch
found a great site for the yaks
http://www.vectorsite.net/avyak1.html
Thanks Storch...............a nice read. The Feb 43 date for the Yak9U accident is misleading........... it did happen in Feb 43 but it was not a Yak9U as we know it and Yak 9U's did not then go into production (even with the Klimov 105PA) even if the Yak9M eventually did.
My understanding was that the 9U used the Klimov 107A thoroughout its production runwhich started in April 44. Unfortunately units did not see combat until August that year whilst engine problems were sorted.
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I dunno about the soviets mis-reporting the facts. I do know that even as late 1951 F-51s and F-82s that mixed it up with yak9Ms and La9s found themselves with their hands full even though they were flown (reportedly) by poorly trained korean pilots.
The only allied fighter that could go toe to toe with these very capable soviet designs was the phenomenal hawker sea fury with the bristol centaurus XV engine spinning the rotol five blade propeller. only then did they have an equally competent combatant. it's reported that hoagy carmicheal even shot down a MiG-15 studmuffinot with his sea fury.
in any even soviet propaganda aside they were arguably all the epitome of piston engined designs and their designers are rightfully respected base on the designs merits.
the commie bastiges :D
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Storch, ya, for the Yak-9 in general thats true, but the "Yak-9U" was a late war "super varient". Thats what I meant.
I would like to see a "regular" Yak-9 as well from @1943 with proper air to air guns, not the 37mm tank busting monster with 2 bursts of ammo.