Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: lazs2 on December 17, 2006, 10:28:41 AM
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Did you ever find the article about the shooting that betty brought up in the general forum?
lazs
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Nope. Put in some e-mails to the local PD and haven't heard back either (but then it's hardly a priority for them). May try a quick call to the local county offices next week since I'm off burning unused vacation time. If it DID happen, it would be nice to send the tale into the NRA. If it didn't, then, well, it is the Internet after all.
Charon
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Absolutely; if he did all that, he should be recognized in the Armed Citizen beyond a doubt.
If he made up a tall tale, well then....
(http://www.clipartreview.com/_gallery/_TN/1391916.gif)
particularly at all the "ZoMfG!!11!! WTFG!!!" people. :)
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If he did it then it would prove the claim that liberal news is biased in a very extreme way against firearms and, especialy, people using them in self defence.
There are hundreds of thousands of interesting stories...maybe millions if the FBI is to be believed, a year of citizens defending themselves yet... the liberal press avoids these interesting stories alltogether. They treat drive by shootings of rival gang members like they were some kind of trajic gun accident even.
still... you would think some kind of story would have surfaced by now?
lazs
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it certainly would have received some press coverage here but then again the incident supposed occurred in the people's republic of california.
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Remember a few years ago when tourists in Florida were getting mugged leaving the airpot in their rental cars? Was that happening because of Florida's firearms laws (like the media portrayed it) or was it because the criminals knew that a rental car coming from the airport probably would'nt have an armed person in it?
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Originally posted by storch
it certainly would have received some press coverage here but then again the incident supposed occurred in the people's republic of california.
If this is the one betty posted, it happened in Texas, near Ft Worth...
and before everybody gets :noid I sat with the man for 4 days at the last con and I can think of no reason to doubt the story.
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Originally posted by sluggish
Remember a few years ago when tourists in Florida were getting mugged leaving the airpot in their rental cars? Was that happening because of Florida's firearms laws (like the media portrayed it) or was it because the criminals knew that a rental car coming from the airport probably would'nt have an armed person in it?
Because the perps knew that the tourists weren't armed. They got scared to pick on just anyone when FL passed thier concealed carry law.
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The telling of the story just reads "funny." I have served/spoke with people who really went through some crazy stuff in Vietnam and were decorated for it (Silver Star, Bronze Star with V) and the tone was far different in describing the events. People whose experiences were verified at the 201 file, authorized to wear decorations level. And, we come from a community that has experienced:
* Voss
* Striaga and his Mustang
* The girl whose imaginary fiancée suffered imaginary death/wounds in Iraq
* The Community member who was recently stated to be dead or injured (can't remember which) in a hoax
* Mr. Black, et al
* Airhead’s bungee jump
* The regular list of people who are caught padding score with a 2nd account to get "respect"
* The guy who posted here in the O'Club a few years back and was always implying some sort of "black ops" background (never did call him on that one; he just disappeared suddenly)
* Nielsen the Pirate, with only some bad Photoshops and a half scuttled family motorboat to go on
* And several more I seem to recall where someone posted “it was only a joke” after things started to come up short.
It's a sad but generally accurate statement that on the Internet, 9 times out of 10:
1. The extreme macho event never happened;
2. The special forces/ops background never happened;
3. The mad martial arts Skillz are bougus, etc.
Maybe this is the 1 time out of ten that's not the case. If so, then WTFG man! I'll send you a check to buy a bottle of your favorite rot gut in honor ($20 value or less, while supplies last) for dealing with some street scum. But, I'm not going to jump on that bandwagon without something more to go on, especially since the story telling style reads more like fiction than someone who has just killed one man, wounded another and ate five bullets with major surgery ahead. I don’t think I’m the only one who has a few red flags over this, and I’ll be more than happy to apologize if this occurred. Iceman would truly fall into the primo badass category were that to be the case and deserve all the praise, and more.
Charon
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Air, like we've ALL said, if he managed to do all that he should be recognized by the NRA. It's an amazing story.
Which makes it just as amazing that it didn't get ANY press, anywhere...particularly 13 miles south of the metroplex.
Just sayin'.
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If he did it then it would prove the claim that liberal news is biased in a very extreme way against firearms and, especially, people using them in self defense.
Around here they cover it, though they try to criminalize the behavior of the homeowner in the process.
Actually though, the Tribune, which I had given up all hope on, has been running some pro concealed carry, hunting and general firearm editorials lately. Not from the editorial board of course, but from several staff columnists and articulate readers. Very perplexing...
I'm still waiting for them to cover the facts behind so called "assualt weapons," which are actually used in homicides about as often as baseball bats.
Charon
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Burleson Police Department
225 W. Renfro, Burleson, Texas 76028-4296
817-447-5300 or (toll free) 1-866-447-5370
Emergency: 911
FAX - 817-447-0332
http://www.burlesontx.com/index.htm
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Originally posted by sluggish
Remember a few years ago when tourists in Florida were getting mugged leaving the airpot in their rental cars? Was that happening because of Florida's firearms laws (like the media portrayed it) or was it because the criminals knew that a rental car coming from the airport probably would'nt have an armed person in it?
florida used to asign tags that began with the letter Z to all rental or leased vehicles. the thugs knew this.
it backfired on them a few times though. once an australian couple were targeted in a smash and grab. the thug smashed the window but the quick thinking aussie grabbed the thug, pulled him halfway into the car and secured him with his arse and legs hanging out of the vehicle while the mrs. sped away from the thug's homies for several blocks. then mr aussie proceeds to beat him into a black and bloody pulp while mrs. aussie called the police. no charges were filed against the tourists.
there were other occassions where a seeming rental vehicle turned out to be a vehicle leased to a local who dispensed a few dosed of lethal lead poisoning.
eventually the state changed the Z tags, rental car agencies don't advertise their cars with stickers in this market still.
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I already sent the Burleson and Fort Worth PDs E-mails. I was going to make the calls a bit later this week though I may give them a buzz this afternoon. The other resource is the county, whch should have a record of any charges filed. All of this stuff is public domain, though finding access can be an issue.
Charon
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The woman I spoke with at the Burleson PD didn't recall any such event, but that is not a 100 percent deal so the next step is to fax in a request for records.
Charon
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I sent an email to the Burleson city paper.
I just dont suspect Iceman trying to mess around and making stuff up. I know that you cant get to know everything about someone after only 3-4 days, but I did not get that impression from Iceman and I have known people like Voss and I can usually tell when someone is selling a load of BS.
also on that link I posted for Burleson there are links for Johnson and Tarrant county websites.
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I have no impression of him either way, haven't met him, don't know him in the game. If it's not true then the sun will still rise tomorrow -- if it is true, then he should get the recognition he deserves. And that includes a spot in the NRA magazine.
Charon
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ok answer from Burleson Star
From: burlesonstar [mailto:burlesonstar@thestargroup.com]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 1:26 PM
To: Ken Treadwell
Subject: Re: Request for help for information
It's not ringing any bells with me or the local police department or sheriff's office.
maybe even though he lives in Burleson maybe he falls under a different city's jurisdiction?
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has anyone come up with a date that this supposed event happened?
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also Murdr posted this in the other thread
His friend has his laptop, and contacted us through the squad mailer...Could also have been who you saw.
Iceman is going to be ok, but it sounds like his shoulder is going to take some work to fix. From what I understand he's been allowed home on and off, but going back in for another surgery on his shoulder tomarrow.
I'll send a link to this thread so he can find it. Im sure he'll appriciate the words of support.
His note to Betty indicates he had not been online for awhile, this could have happened back after thanksgiving. If this was a hoax, why only send a comment to Betty on myspace, whynot here? and Murdr would have to be in on the joke too? I dont see reason for a :noid maybe we're just looking in the wrong place for the information.
Edit: Last post on this board by Iceman was 11/27 in the am.
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airscrew, you seem to know some of these folks. Many people like myself are amazed by this story and very interested in the details, but many of us have developed a very healthy distrust of all information not officially entered on the internet. Can you talk to someone on icemans end and get us some official data on the event?
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maybe he is like some secret agent kind of guy and that is why there is no info on the case. Don't want to cause attention...
Or... maybe he has a crush on Betty?
lazs
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I probably dont know any of these people any better than anyone else. I met Iceman at the con last year but we didnt trade emails or phone numbers, I didnt have him sign my con t-shirt or nothing. We shared some beers, stories, fun times, and I let him shoot me down twice during the 2v2. he flew with Natedog and thrashed Shoulman and I twice, me screaming for help the whole time.
so far the information I have I got by searching Betty's thread with the myspace link, following the myspace link on her page to Derek's myspace site. in the other thread Daddog has sent an email to Derek, and apparently Murdr has been in contact with a friend of Derek.
this could have happened anytime between 11/28 and 12/11.
Agree its an amazing story and I would like to hear the details, but I would rather Iceman healed up and gets healthy first. Physically and mentally. I have never shot or killed someone but about 92 or 93 I and a few co-workers from the hospital had to go clean up after a suicide. Guy had held his family hostage for several hours with a shotgun. He eventually released them and then some time later blew his head off. because I was one of the infection control and biohazard monitors for my clinic I got volunteered to go cleanup after this guy, blood, brains and bits of bone everywhere.
later in the evening a few of the LE/SPs that had responded to the incident. One of the guys related how he had broken in the rear window and busted down the bedroom door and shot the guy about 3 times in the chest, except the guy was already dead. He had been firing that shotgun all morning so there was no way to know before hand. Anyway that night this cop was all piss and vingear about busting down the door and blowing the guy away, talking a mile a minute, couldnt shut him up. Few days later was different story. We all got sent to mental health for stress counsuling. Anyway it affected me for several days afterward and all I did was clean it up for 8 hours
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Originally posted by Airscrew
Edit: Last post on this board by Iceman was 11/27 in the am.
According to Iceman and the alleged article he posted, incident happened on 11/17 in Arlington TX, ten days earlier.
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ok enuff is enuff guys, for christ sakes, let the man recover and then ask him all the questions that you may have, i have only been playin AH for almost 2 years and no i have never met iceman but i have known him on the game since the beginning and i have no reason to trust what he is saying. let the man worry bout his health and then when he is back and in the game, ask him questions then, i'm sure that he will b happy to answer any of them that you may have concerning this, but right now, the ones that r slammin on him..yall dont know him, yall dont even know him in the game. so give it a rest until then, dont b slammin on him till he is able to defend himself, if yall read his post from earlier today, you will see there was news coverage and a newspaper. so chill the hell out and let him get better.
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ok enuff is enuff guys, for christ sakes, let the man recover and then ask him all the questions that you may have, i have only been playin AH for almost 2 years and no i have never met iceman but i have known him on the game since the beginning and i have no reason to trust what he is saying. let the man worry bout his health and then when he is back and in the game, ask him questions then, i'm sure that he will b happy to answer any of them that you may have concerning this, but right now, the ones that r slammin on him..yall dont know him, yall dont even know him in the game. so give it a rest until then, dont b slammin on him till he is able to defend himself, if yall read his post from earlier today, you will see there was news coverage and a newspaper. so chill the hell out and let him get better.
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damn double click crap, accidently posted twice ...grrrrr
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Originally posted by betty
i have never met iceman but i have known him on the game since the beginning and i have no reason to trust what he is saying.
Me either. :lol
The newspaper article was the clincher for me.
By the way, google doesn't get any hits on any of the text in it or the guy's first+last name.
That paper must have been really, really "local" for the story to vanish into thin air. The town crier must have just recited the article in lieu of publication or any form of mass media.
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Originally posted by Airscrew
ok answer from Burleson Star
"From: burlesonstar [mailto:burlesonstar@thestargroup.com]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 1:26 PM
To: Ken Treadwell
Subject: Re: Request for help for information
It's not ringing any bells with me or the local police department or sheriff's office"
maybe even though he lives in Burleson maybe he falls under a different city's jurisdiction?
The Burleson Star is the ONLY paper I can find for Burleson, Texas. Makes sense as it is a small suburb just 13 miles from Ft. Worth.
Ice says the article was in the "Burleson paper" so it is possible there is another paper.
Nonetheless, I will maintain my wait and see attitude.
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I'll maintain a "who gives a flip" attitude. it is afterall the intardnet. I think we should turn you detectives loose on the osama bin ladin case. you'll be famous and earn $25,000,000.99 and you can brag about it here, what could be more rewarding? hmmmm?
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Toad
Your mail is full and needs a flushin' :)
Charon
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and yet u keep slamin him...
no offence but yallare serious losers with nothing better to do he shouldnt have to defend himself at all and i am stunned by the reaction of some of you, what is this community if we cannot trust each oter u guys undermine what most of us and the game stand for. community! and i feel what you are doing is dishonarable at best
let him get back then attack the defensles man
you guys are using a bazooka on a guppy
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Originally posted by Charon
Toad
Your mail is full and needs a flushin' :)
Charon
Spa-looosh! Gurglegurglegurglegurle splash!
It's flushed!
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Originally posted by evenhaim
and yet u keep slamin him...
no offence but yallare serious losers
New around here ain'tcha boy?
First, I'm not slamming him. I'm saying I don't believe it without further proof. If you think that's a slam, I think you're in need of some real life experience dealing with people face to face instead of through a keyboard.
Second, I believe you are new around here because there have been numerous hoaxes, scams and general BS stories spread around here by people in the
community!
over the last seven years or so.
Third, if it is a true story, that story is a valuable asset in the effort to promote the 2nd Amendment. As such, it should be verified and spread through the NRA's Armed Citizen column and used to refute the BS that spouts from folks like Handgun Control.
So, that's why we're interested, see? If it's TRUE...it's a great thing for gun owners everywhere. But if we take it to the NRA, they will fact-check it to a far greater degree than you've seen here. So we want to be right BEFORE we spread the story, don't we?
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I'm with Toad, Charon and Lazs on this one, I've seen enough stuff on the net to be a bit skeptical. I'll wait and see, but hope ICe is doing fine whether or not the actual event occurred.
I just can't believe a thing like this wouldn't get immediate media coverage from one side or the other. Sean Hannity would salivate to do Hannity and Colmes live from Ice's front yard if this is all true...
:confused:
?:noid ?
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First, I'm not slamming him. I'm saying I don't believe it without further proof. If you think that's a slam, I think you're in need of some real life experience dealing with people face to face instead of through a keyboard.
Yes, you are. When you go out of your way to prove or disprove it, you are slamming him. Or at least attempting to.
It's simple enough to sit on your hands and do nothing until he offers you proof. There is no reason for you to go out seeking proof. There is no reason for you to get worked up. As of right now, if he didn't come forward with evidence of this, nothing will have changed.
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you read icemans reply today in bettys thread. For a guy that just recently shot one man to death and put another man critical condition with a hail of bullits and was himself shot FIVE times the guy is very flippant towards doubters and very comical and casual about the whole thing. I mean it could be true, and so could martians crashing in area51...I dunno, but this whole story is a really intense and serious story yet the way it comes out on myspace and this tardling bsb is almost laughable.
Whats icemans lawyers name and law firm, I would be happy call a legitimate lawyers office to finally get the low down and believe this wonderful gritty gunskmoke story of grand american self defense in the lone star state. Ill make the call :)
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Originally posted by Stang
I'm with Toad, Charon and Lazs on this one, I've seen enough stuff on the net to be a bit skeptical. I'll wait and see, but hope ICe is doing fine whether or not the actual event occurred.
Me too.
Like people claiming to be professional golfers... :noid
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i made no such claim. i said that i was a superhero who possesed special powers but that i like to golf when i am not busy saving metropolis. geez.
(rolls eyes)
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You're a m:rolleyes: :rolleyes: k.
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My point is that I am very interested in stories of this kind since I am very interested in stories that aid the second amendment.
If it is true then I would like it to be published in the NRA but, as Toad says, they won't do it without a news article.
I have been accused of being a little cold from time to time but... I have never felt the urge to use the term LOL LOL when describing a a death. I would also think that there is no lawyer in the world who would want to have to explain that behavior after a shooting.
I did know a couple of guys who did a lot of killing and they did get a little flippant about it after a while but not in writing and only with really close friends.. otherwise.. they pretty much didn't bring it up.
Plus.... he claims to have been sleeping with his girlfriend and we all know that no AH dork ever gets to sleep with women much less a real girlfriend.
lazs
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also... I would like confirmation and a lawyers name and address so that I could send a small check to help cover the inevitable expenses involved with a shooting incident if it happened.
I have a stake in something like this... I am looking at my Kimber 45 as I type this. I also think that if it is true that iceman needs to delete every reference to the shooting other than pointing to articles... Him "lol" at shooting people is not gonna go over well in court.
Thanks charon for your efforts in getting the facts.
lazs
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(I don’t think NRA will post thing since defender got whacked few times as well)
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what do you mean? they still publish and they cite the news articles. How can they get "whacked"?
lazs
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What I mean is that as far as I can recall, I haven’t seen any NRA articles of home defense where defender got shot in return. That makes bad publicity for NRA.
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I have seen lot's of the stories where the defender was wounded. It is fairly common.
lazs
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There is a web site "Arlington News". After reading it and searching it I gotta fall into the skeptic side of things here.
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I've been in contact with most of the principals listed in the "article" post... PDs, newspapers, etc. I'll post a bit more after lunch.
Charon
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I am with the skeptics, this smells, no STINKS of Mrblack, or that dolt who claimed her boyfriend got killed.
If its true, that's great and should be sent to the NRA, if not, well he will get what's coming to him I suppose.
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Post up in the main thread.
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Originally posted by lazs2
If he did it then it would prove the claim that liberal news is biased in a very extreme way against firearms and, especialy, people using them in self defence.
still... you would think some kind of story would have surfaced by now?
lazs
So true, I'm not quick to draw conclusions based on "bias". But let's say that THIS EVENT did happen, and the current FACTS are true. Had a "bystander" been shot, this would be NATIONAL News material.
I believe it, and Iceman. I feel bad that there are those who must "choose to play devil's advocate" in this sort of situation. I don't know, maybe some of you have never flown with Iceman, to base your "opinion" on. A shame really, a shame.
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read Charon's
- Then come back and edit your post and apologize to the 'skeptics'.
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Ouch... thanks for all your hard work charon. I hope iceman was fibbing about having a concealled carry permit too.
lazs
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Ouch... thanks for all your hard work charon. I hope iceman was fibbing about having a concealled carry permit too.
The funny thing is, it really wasn't all that hard or all that much work. That last post pretty much made it all come together at about the point it was getting to be more trouble than it was worth. I had actually started hoping it would be true at the end, that some search would turn up the obvious that had been overlooked. And if new infromation develops I would certainly apologize and give him "WTFG, i'M NOT WORTHY" praise... but the chances of that are pretty slim now, IMO.
Charon
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Well done Charon.
I have to admit though, these kinds of threads make BBS's interesting.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Yes, you are. When you go out of your way to prove or disprove it, you are slamming him. Or at least attempting to.
I can see this remark coming from a guy like you.
Anyone who questions what you say is either stupid or "slamming you".
Pfffft.
Anyone making claims like that on the intardnet shouldn't be suprised if some folks don't immediately take it as gospel truth and ask for references.
Hey, there's this lawyer in Nigeria that is going to give me millions..want to get in on the deal?
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The question is, what makes these losers make this crap up? Did mommy and daddy not pay enough attention to them when they were young?
Was this guy not around for the "I ArE teH SniPER" posts from Mrblack?
Scumbags like this always get caught, at least on this forum. Maybe he didn’t think it would move from Myspace to here?
Then again, he uses myspace so that may explain it right there.
Charon.
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this thread has been hellafun, thanks Iceman :)
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there's a saying in spanish that goes something like it easier to catch a liar than it is to catch a cripple running.
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Did the original thread get skuzzied ?
Bronk
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No, it is still up, and the original posted, the chick this guy duped with the story in the first place still believes him lol.
It's in General though not the Oclub.
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Nice work Charon, and not to step on any toes. But, when it was first posted I was thinking something isn't right.
If it was me, I wouldn't be telling people on myspace "OMGZORZ two guys broke into my house i busted some major caps yo" Nevertheless, if such a thing were to happen to me I'm not sure I'd have that gung-ho attitude. Call me weird, but if I shot and killed one guy, and the other critically wounded I wouldn't be boasting.
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UPDATE>>>>
There apparently is a David Walters at the FW PD. I have his direct line in the Fraud/Major Crimes Section, so I will set this to rest once and for all, hopefully, tomorrow. He is apparently the only one there by that name, and he either witnessed the said actions or did not.
Charon
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takes one back to the days of the WOBBLE and his girlfriend yarn
:lol
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Wasn't there a guy in AW who organized a huge fly-by for his dad who was a B-17 pilot?
and Mindy Bentley would make a great porn name.
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Originally posted by Airscrew
...and before everybody gets :noid I sat with the man for 4 days at the last con and I can think of no reason to doubt the story.
you do realize that the "con" in con man stands for "confidence", right?
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Yes, Lets get to the bottom of this!
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betty... before you get caught up in the rest of the sure to come story and the weepy "my girlfriend left me over the whole thing cause she couldn't deal with such a manly stud" thing...
I will be glad to show you a real manly man.. I will even let you count my scars after. Heck... I have even had girlfriends and wives leave me over some of the stuff. Lots of room for worship and angst and all the things women like to do. I have even been practicing my noble but humble look.
lazs
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:rofl
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Update in the main post, and its a DUZY:)
Charon
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Where is his "statement of denial"? You said he WAS TELLING THE TRUTH (Iceman). Instead of playing juvenile games, spill the details.
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You did read it all, didn't you Masherbrum...
The detective denied the event took place. It was a hoax.
Charon
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Am I the only one that doesn't have a problem understanding what charon posted?
Iceman was telling the truth about the detective living next door, or down the block or wherever the hell it was. NOT the event that he described.
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what I find amusing is the people that are getting angry at charon and... Toad.
Damn jealous mexican girlfriend says I can't comfort betty tho.
Anyone wanna take bets on if the "iceman" (damn... can hardly write it without laughing) really has a concealled carry permit? or a shoulder holster? or a glock? or... a girlfriend even?
lazs
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QUOTE]Originally posted by Charon
No issues from me Murdr. In fact, your digging helped lay this to rest once and for all. Without Detective Walters direct contact, there would have still been too much "he said/she said" wiggle room for the hardcore supporters.[/QUOTE] Not at all, I was very interested with what you came up with because there was one police log of a death investigation that left the question open. Look at my position, how would I feel if I ran off at the mouth with all the information I had, but had the wrong conclusion?
Since this has been resolved I have no qualms about reposting this email
This is Matt, I work with Derek. I have been checking his emails and handling some work for him for the past month or since the incident... He is ok, He has been in and out of the hospital dealing with minor surgeries to fix his shoulder. Not sure how much you all know, but it looks like he posted something on someone named Betty's Myspace account. Basically from what I understand his description was pretty accurate, he was hit 5 times by an automatic .25 caliber weapon. He was asleep around 2:00AM at his house when Mindy, his girlfriend woke him up saying someone was in the house, he has a handgun license and usually carries a pistol in his truck or on himself so I suspect he had it with him at the time. He told me that there were at least 2 of them and that he shot the 1st guy several times, then he heard more shots, turned and there was another person coming out of the other bedroom and that was the guy that shot him. He returned fire and killed the burglar with 3 shots to the chest and twice in the stomach. He said he doesnt remember much after that, except for getting Mindy outside, she ran next door and called the police. His neighbor who is actually a fort worth swat team member came running over and saw he had been shot. Derek said he never even knew he was hit until James told him, It took the police and ambulances nearly 30 minutes to get there, and he is very very upset about that still luckily he lives next to a swat team member, a fort worth police constable, so they heard the shots and came over and basically saved his life from what I understand.
Anyway he and his girlfriend Mindy are doing ok, with the exception of his shoulder which is really messed up from what I understand, he's had 4 surgeries already, 2 just on his shoulder and there doing another one on Friday, two bullets were lodged in his shoulder area or something like that. But he says he's gonna be fine. He's been getting to go home quite a bit, I will let him know what you all have said, and I am sure he appreciates it.... He has been staying with Mindy and her family up in Denton, while his house is fixed, not sure if he has net access, because I have his laptop here at work.
Once again thanks for the kind words and I will let him know...
Thanks
Matt
A third grader would not have problems finding inconsistancies between that and the post and article in this thread. So westly Ive had a couple days to contemplate how I feel regarding this. You seem to be bringing up a new matter by effectively calling me a liar when Ive spoken up about my own skeptisizm. That I don't take well either.....remember Dick Cheney :)
(didnt get in fast enough on the other thread)
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Looks like this one is done as well.