Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: cav58d on December 19, 2006, 07:16:10 PM
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Although my career path thus far has taken me to civillian aviation, and hopefully in the futrure, military aviation. That said, I continue to entertain the thought of ATC. I've been doing some research and just read that out of the 15,000 controllers in the US, nearly 1/3rd will be retiring next year, and that the average salary in 05 for ATC was $103,000.00!
I was hoping one of our local ATC guys could send me a PM, and i'd like to possibly give them a call and chat about the civillian route.
thanks
cav
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get started on it soon,
iirc they dont hire old guys & mandatory retirement is quite young
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The average salary...
isn't.
Just like pilots. Ask your "average" pilot if they make $125,000/yr.
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Originally posted by Golfer
The average salary...
isn't.
Just like pilots. Ask your "average" pilot if they make $125,000/yr.
I think you may have added an extra zero in there Golfer! lmao
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Keep in mind that the US controllers have highest national suicide rates.
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PH of 4thFG is ATC. He's online quite a bit in MW & LW arenas
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Originally posted by Fishu
Keep in mind that the US controllers have highest national suicide rates.
Board Moderators come in a close second.
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Originally posted by Booz
PH of 4thFG is ATC. He's online quite a bit in MW & LW arenas
Thanks booz. Can you tell him I am interested in learning about the field and would like to contact someone currently in the profession? Would you mind if I PMd you my e-mail address to forward him?
thanks
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Do you want to know about the job or about getting picked up by the FAA?
Two different sets of skills there. ;)
I looked into the FAA route, but currently they aren't hiring Military controllers unless they've retired from the service AND with very few exceptions they require you to go thru the academy in OKC regardless of prior certifications or experience. (I've always thought this was wierd since almost all ATC certifications, requirements and initial training and testing comes from the same place: the FAA.) You also have to be very flexible in what part of the country you want to live and work in. Getting hired is alot like getting hired by the Postal Service: knowing the right person will get you alot farther than practical experience, certifications or education. Lastly, as Golfer noted, the salary range for most ATC jobs isn't as high as people think. To break 6 digits requires alot of seniority and being assigned to a very high-density facility.
The Department of Defense (DoD) is what I'm currently looking into. Decent GS jobs at alot of military facilities around the country. They have the same maximum age cutoff for initial hiring (31 I think) as the FAA, but it's easily waiverable.
There are also contract companies that supply ATC personnel here and there. I did my on the job training with a group like this at Butts AAF after I completed ATC school and was waiting on an assignment. (I already had a dream assignment lined up at Spangdahlem, but my orders got deleted soon after 911.) Thinking back , I was the only green suit in the place and I was completely out of the military loop for the time I was there. Those were the days. :) Anyway, those guys had a very easy job at a very low-density facility and their salaries and compensation packages reflected it.
It IS possible to make some $$$ as a contract ATC if you're willing to take overseas assignments with (gasp) Halliburton, but without a Control Tower Operator (CTO) rating I wouldn't even waste time looking into that.
There are 3 basic ways to get your initial ATC education:
1. Military
2. FAA Academy (hired by FAA)
3. A couple of universities have ATC programs and can arrange for a proctor to administer the initial CTO exam. I Googled this one to help you out, but I'm not posting the links because alot of crap came back from "technical institutes". As far as I know, there is only one University out there that has a real solid (IE marketable to employers) program and I can't remember which. I heard some guys talking about it not long ago so I can ask if you'd like.
As far as suicide rates are concerned, I don't know the real statistics but I've never seen anyone do a swan dive off a tower catwalk. I've met some really, really sharp people in this job and the good ones stay a few moves ahead of making a decision that will get them seriously stressed out.
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Most of the Class D towers near me are subcontracted to & run by Lockheed....
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cav58d, the kid has worked Oak Center for nigh on 20 years. Mostly land but he has worked ocean also.
I'll ask him if he would talk to you about it if you wish.
You can email me through the board.
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Originally posted by Hawklore
Board Moderators come in a close second.
Don't let Mp3 hear of this, shhhh.
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Be ready to drop out with an ulcer... What's your backup plan if it doesn't work?
That's just what I've heard, being fairly close to the business...
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Keep in mind that not every airport is like LAX, Chicago, La Guardia, Phoenix etc. etc. so stress can be a rather relative situation. I've talked with the controllers and visited the tower at TUS more than a couple times. Those guys and gals are pretty darn laid back and none seem to be suffering from a lack of money to live on. Since it's a dual use airport they deal with everything from light civilians to military heavy iron including F16's regularly.
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Originally posted by eagl
Be ready to drop out with an ulcer... What's your backup plan if it doesn't work?
That's just what I've heard, being fairly close to the business...
Right now I am fairly stable with civillian aviation (oxy moron) and I plan to try and commission into Army Aviation...If all else fails, I was offered a job with Connecticut Department of Emergency Management and Homeland Security. If that fails, I can always take over the family business and become a 6th generation florist! lol....
So I do have my options, but like I said, right now im just considering the idea of ATC. It isn't my dream, but if there is good job stability, and pay is anywhere near as good as the Department of Labor list it to be, then I will definately entertain the idea of going into it...We'll see....I sent PH an e-mail, and i'm still looking to talk to a couple more guys in the field.
thanks for the replys.
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Originally posted by cav58d
Thanks booz. Can you tell him I am interested in learning about the field and would like to contact someone currently in the profession? Would you mind if I PMd you my e-mail address to forward him?
thanks
I'm sure he wouldn't mind talking about it at all, you can also email him at PH@4thFG.org (we all have HANDLE@4thfg.org email routers set up which we can then chooose to read or ignore and hammer cleans the spam:)). He'll see it forwarded to his primary e-mail and he may be more likely to see it.
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Cav I'm currently a controller at I90, Houston Tracon, a level 11 facility. I've been a controller since 1984. You can e-mail me at warpig41@hotmail.com and I'll gladly answer any questions you may have about the FAA as a career choice.
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hehe cool cavpuke, I deal with houston app/dep about 3 times a week coming out of ellington.
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hmmm.... over 100k a year...
Here at Finland ATC pay averages around 55k€ I think. (around 73k$) Might be more.
But roughly 25% of pay consists additional payments caused by night-, evening-, and weekendshifts.
But remember that our beloved socialist system manages to overtax us poor ATC officers so I get actually around 60% of my paycheck for personal use... (all taxes, pensions and such deducted)
So it is not much after all..
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Is that where Kingfish (Gerald Mathews) and Able Hernandez ended up? Tell 'em PH (Phil Baker) from P31 said "hi."
Originally posted by CavPuke
Cav I'm currently a controller at I90, Houston Tracon, a level 11 facility. I've been a controller since 1984. You can e-mail me at warpig41@hotmail.com and I'll gladly answer any questions you may have about the FAA as a career choice.
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Daniel Webster College has an ATC program. it's in southern NH right on the airport. (KASH)
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Originally posted by Dnil
hehe cool cavpuke, I deal with houston app/dep about 3 times a week coming out of ellington.
Working the EFD final is always fun. The mixture of F-16, T-38, various assortment of biz jets, helos, and small GA types makes for an interesting session ;) Unlike the finals at IAH which is pretty much nothing more than volume of jungle jets, 737's, A319/A320's, and the heavy crowd killers.
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Are you the "Jetlincoln" guy?
We were down there last week and he was throwing out all sorts of funny zingers to the ExpressJet guys.
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Originally posted by Golfer
Are you the "Jetlincoln" guy?
We were down there last week and he was throwing out all sorts of funny zingers to the ExpressJet guys.
LOL nope that is "Ax". He usually keeps the pilots entertained along with keeping the traffic moving, to say the least :cool:
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Are you guys at IAH or a building somewhere else in the Houston area?
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Originally posted by PhilBGolf
Is that where Kingfish (Gerald Mathews) and Able Hernandez ended up? Tell 'em PH (Phil Baker) from P31 said "hi."
Message passed to "Kingfish", he's was kinda surprised when I called him that (he was training on the IAH finals at the time, kinda threw him for a loop :D )
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Originally posted by Golfer
Are you guys at IAH or a building somewhere else in the Houston area?
We're located at the west end of the terminal area, below the old tower by runway 15L/15R. Supposedly we're going to get a new tracon somewhere off site but the actual location has yet to be determined. The city wants to turn the area we're currently in into a parking garage. Once the city goes ahead with adding runway 27R the Center (ZHU) will be torn down and either parceled out to ZFW, ZBQ, and ZMI or relocated to parts unknown.
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Take visitors? Be neat to see ya and something other than golf to do when spending a few nights.
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Originally posted by Golfer
Take visitors? Be neat to see ya and something other than golf to do when spending a few nights.
Yes we do. I have Saturday/Sundays off. Drop me an e-mail and I'll give you the details, would be glad to show you "The Circus" :D .
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will do. been in/around the CMH Tracon/Tower for many many hours and have my own chair and binoculars at my old home tower (so it seems!)
Each time it makes me happy that I'm drivin' while you're jivin'
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Crap, now I'm in trouble. While I'm at it, you might as well ask Able if he's had any good jello shots lately :O
Originally posted by CavPuke
Message passed to "Kingfish", he's was kinda surprised when I called him that (he was training on the IAH finals at the time, kinda threw him for a loop :D )
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Cav, you can reach me best at PhilBGolf@aol.com. For some reason I can't access my 4thFG email.
Originally posted by cav58d
Thanks booz. Can you tell him I am interested in learning about the field and would like to contact someone currently in the profession? Would you mind if I PMd you my e-mail address to forward him?
thanks
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Originally posted by PhilBGolf
Crap, now I'm in trouble. While I'm at it, you might as well ask Able if he's had any good jello shots lately :O
Will the shots keep him from singing ? :D
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Unfortunately, no :lol