Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Silat on December 21, 2006, 01:15:13 PM
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http://www.blasphemychallenge.com/
Looks like you can personally damn yourself to hell forever, without ever having a chance at forgiveness, and by doing so you can receive a free copy of a DVD documentary called The God Who Wasn't There.
Looks like plenty of folks are taking the challenge and speaking the blasphemy of denying the existence of the holy spirit, posting it on Youtube and then sending a link of it to some internet outfit that's giving away a 1,001 of the DVD's.
According to Mark 3:29 in the Holy Bible, "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." Jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he won't forgive you for denying the existence of the Holy Spirit. Ever. This is a one-way road you're taking here.
:aok
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"The makers of this video would like you to declare your independence from the stone age" :rofl
Actually though the Holy Spirit is one of the few Christian ideas I do believe in, so I'll have to keep damning myself to hell with icecream cones and hookers :(
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two things...
One, I don't know if I believe in the holly spirit or not and...
Two... My god doesn't care if I do or not.
lazs
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what was Mark's last name?
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nice Christmas post ...
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wow, what an ignorant thing to do. no one can be sure of what existists on the other side. though I'm 100% sure the Christian world view is 100% correct. :D I feel sorry for those people and I'm saddened by their decisions but the truth is that there is but one path to the creator and the way is through how you process who you believe the person of Jesus Christ is. since most people flunk that through their entire short stay in this reality this second question becomes moot.
john 3:16-21 covers it clearly and easily. all the potatos and icecream cones on earth will not condemn you, they may make you ill but not condemned. your choice, what you do of your own free will regarding the above paragraph sure will though.
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what about us druids? by the way, happy winter solstice.
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Originally posted by john9001
what about us druids? by the way, happy winter solstice.
sorry that's not how Jesus is spelled. you may find yourself desperately wanting asbestos underware a split second after your last heartbeat. next question please. indeed, happy winter solstice to you. Jesus was born in the early spring and was executed in the early summer. this is a pagan holiday but an enjoyable one to be sure.
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before you condemm us "pagans" and call jesus "god" you should study what happened at the The Council of Nicea.
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Originally posted by storch
this is a pagan holiday but an enjoyable one to be sure.
OMG... another foot soldier in the war on christmas!
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this is an ongoing discussion with my druid brother. please forgive me if I decline to engage in it here with you. remember though, you've been wrong about other things in the past. :D
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Originally posted by midnight Target
OMG... another foot soldier in the war on christmas!
would you like to see my size 11 MT slip ons? :D
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Originally posted by Silat
http://www.blasphemychallenge.com/
Looks like you can personally damn yourself to hell forever, without ever having a chance at forgiveness, and by doing so you can receive a free copy of a DVD documentary called The God Who Wasn't There.
Looks like plenty of folks are taking the challenge and speaking the blasphemy of denying the existence of the holy spirit, posting it on Youtube and then sending a link of it to some internet outfit that's giving away a 1,001 of the DVD's.
According to Mark 3:29 in the Holy Bible, "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." Jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he won't forgive you for denying the existence of the Holy Spirit. Ever. This is a one-way road you're taking here.
:aok
You running of "cooler room" for the fish? :D
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I'm not sure whats worse, those who knock on your door selling their religion, or those who are so insecure about themselves that they have to tell religious people how wrong they are with idiot posts like this....tough call.
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take it in stride. the folks who come to your door selling their faith are very much fun to troll. it's great doing it tet a tet. some huff off angry, others experience an epiphany when they understand they have been hooked, landed, gutted and fileted. very few do a return visit to this door even though it's always cheerfully opened. :D
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Hmmm... I've got nothing to lose. I think I sold my soul on this BBS...
Er... well... maybe not... I was never actually paid.
I wonder how much I could get for it on eBay.
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Originally posted by storch
would you like to see my size 11 MT slip ons? :D
only 11?
Small feet... well you know the rest.
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ya I'm a little guy only 5-10 so little feet is proportionally ok but I have big typing fingers. :D
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Originally posted by Sandman
Hmmm... I've got nothing to lose. I think I sold my soul on this BBS...
Er... well... maybe not... I was never actually paid.
I wonder how much I could get for it on eBay.
That was my attitude, if I haven't damned myself to hell already there probably isn't one.
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most theologians would agree that the meaning behind that statement is that it's not truely the act of doing so, but the intent behind the act. To truley blaspheme you must believe but be willing to say "to hell with you anyway". I dont think that just saying it matters unless you were truely THAT hard of heart where you KNOW the truth but are willing to still turn your back on it. I believe thats what damns you more then just saying it.
my $.02
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You can murder, rape, and pillage and still be forgiven. But you even speak ill of the god (read: the religion) and you're damned to hell forever?
Did the writers of the bible have a good laugh when they wrote that crap down? Because it's still giving me the chuckles.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
You can murder, rape, and pillage and still be forgiven. But you even speak ill of the god (read: the religion) and you're damned to hell forever?
Did the writers of the bible have a good laugh when they wrote that crap down? Because it's still giving me the chuckles.
ditto
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yep.. I am no bible student by any means but I am sure that most sins are not sins unless you really do them. To say "I want to steal that car" is not a sin for instance. If you dwell on it and really want to do it in your heart and are not stopped by the fact that it is simply a sin... then it is a sin even if you don't steal it.
I don't think that the internet game would count for eternal damnation... if eternal damnation even exists.
I have to agree tho that those who constantly attack religion are just as annoying as those who preach it at you against your wishes. Maybe a little more so since their motives are so void of anything resembling human empathy.
lazs
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The 'damned' videos are freak'n hilarious, the 1st chick... I'd hit it.
All it takes is for people to deny the invisible man exists, or utter a few words, in order to get a 1 way ticket to "hell", or whatever?
Thats kinda bogus, I'd think there would be a special place in "hell" for those who rape, murder and generally spread hate and discontent.. but I guess if they believe... the invisible man in the sky is cool with that.
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Obviously, the proper things for Christians to do in response is to hold demonstrations, riot, kill people, and offer heavenly rewards to those who kill the offenders.
I love irony.
HONK!
Gooss
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well... there is that of course... The guy knows he is safe.
If he had a pair tho he would have a contest to see who could draw the best allah cartoon and publish em all.
Maybe he doesn't think the muslim religion is as silly and backward as the christian one tho?
lazs
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"The God Who Wasn't There "is a great movie...Good Xmas gift for your religious relatives.
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Originally posted by Eagler
nice Christmas post ...
LoL ! Whats wrong with it?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
You can murder, rape, and pillage and still be forgiven. But you even speak ill of the god (read: the religion) and you're damned to hell forever?
Did the writers of the bible have a good laugh when they wrote that crap down? Because it's still giving me the chuckles.
Only if you believed in the first place. If you never believed then it doesnt apply:)
There are 800 explanations for everything men wrote in the BOOK. There are over 800 religions.
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so all you that do not believe are not celebrating Christmas right?
I'm sure you don't want to be considered a hypocrite .....
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Silat, boy i wish i could feel so smart, and so liberal. What's a guy gotta do? Give up his beliefs to make you happy? What else could be the point of your post?
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Originally posted by lazs2
yep.. I am no bible student by any means but I am sure that most sins are not sins unless you really do them. To say "I want to steal that car" is not a sin for instance. If you dwell on it and really want to do it in your heart and are not stopped by the fact that it is simply a sin... then it is a sin even if you don't steal it.
Well, I am not going to tell you what to believe, but I will tell you that Jesus said as written in the book of Matthew, “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.
You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery."
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Benny, i dont think Silat cares what you believe, except that you believe in God. His hobby seems to be pointing out inconsistincies in whatever YOU believe. I hope he finds another hobby.
Passive criticism is worthless. Tell us, Silat, what you do YOU believe in?
Cheers,
Gunthr
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Benny, i dont think Silat cares what you believe, except that you believe in God. His hobby seems to be pointing out inconsistincies in whatever YOU believe. I hope he finds another hobby.
Passive criticism is worthless. Tell us, Silat, what you do YOU believe in?
Cheers,
Gunthr
I imagine as a flaming red portland liberal, he believes in tolerance, open mindedness and accepting of others lifestyle and or choice of beliefs. He is more then likely against forcing his ideas on someone or any other type of fascist activity,or ridiculing the same ideas and beliefs
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I wasn't talking to Silat, and I'm not under the impression that anyone cares what I believe. Someone said something like "The Bible doesn't say this!" So I pointed out the contradiction.
Pooh, people who make claims to tolerance and open-mindedness are generally just as intolerant and close-minded as everyone else. They're just prejudiced about different things. In essense, they just add hypocrisy.
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They say there are no atheists in foxholes but aren't agnostics just atheists with no balls?
So unless you're born-again none of this counts right? If you never "accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior" you could theoretically deny his existance until your deathbed, wait till the last minute, "see the light," and be welcomed into his arms...
However, if you acknowledge his existence and his place as god or the son of god or whatever, then denounce him, you shall forever and always be damned to the eternal fires of hell.
Kind of makes me want to not get my kids baptized...
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Thanks, Pooh21, for your input. I was hoping that the respondant could answer for himself. Merry Christmas!
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Originally posted by midnight Target
OMG... another foot soldier in the war on christmas!
Actually hes right. It is a Pagan Holiday whos origans date back to the Romans.
Christains adapted and adopted it as their own declaring Dec 25 to be the date of Christs birth.
Thing is nobody actually knows exactly when Christ was born.
Some beleive the actual time period of his birth was in mid Autum Others in Spring
Actually most of the things we normally associate with Christian Christmas
Or a celibration and recognition thereof arent part of Christianity at all.
The Christmas tree
the Yule Log
The Lights
Mistletoe
All of these things have their origans someplace else and were only later incorperated and adopted (one could argue stolen) into Christain celibration.
Actually the traditional Irish Shamrock on St Patricks Day probably has much more to do with being purely christain then any of the things listed above
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Merry Christmas Gunthr!
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Originally posted by lazs2
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I have to agree tho that those who constantly attack religion are just as annoying as those who preach it at you against your wishes. Maybe a little more so since their motives are so void of anything resembling human empathy.
lazs
Not bad
Not bad at all
I'll drink to that
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Chritsmas seems to be exiting on many levels... I'm leaving to go hunting, and I'd like to give my best wishes to all the thinkers, to all the lovers, to all the fighters and to all those who live their lives to its greatest possible extent.
Gunthr
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Originally posted by sluggish
So unless you're born-again none of this counts right? If you never "accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior" you could theoretically deny his existance until your deathbed, wait till the last minute, "see the light," and be welcomed into his arms...
However, if you acknowledge his existence and his place as god or the son of god or whatever, then denounce him, you shall forever and always be damned to the eternal fires of hell.
I don't see how you came to that conclusion from, "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
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Many of you should probably not read Revelations. I dont think you could handle it.
If you understood it,
which you cannot
and I do not
so,
go ahead and read it anyway.
;)
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Originally posted by Eagler
so all you that do not believe are not celebrating Christmas right?
I'm sure you don't want to be considered a hypocrite .....
I still accept gifts ..
And correct. I dont celebrate Xmas.
But Im invited to others Xmas functions and might go as a guest. I love pagan holidays that have food and merryment:)
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Silat, boy i wish i could feel so smart, and so liberal. What's a guy gotta do? Give up his beliefs to make you happy? What else could be the point of your post?
Its a link. Go to it. Dont go to it. Did I ask you to give up anything. You religious types sure are thin skinned:)
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Chritsmas seems to be exiting on many levels... I'm leaving to go hunting, and I'd like to give my best wishes to all the thinkers, to all the lovers, to all the fighters and to all those who live their lives to its greatest possible extent.
Gunthr
Hey. Me too. But I dont need Xmas to do that.
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Benny, i dont think Silat cares what you believe, except that you believe in God. His hobby seems to be pointing out inconsistincies in whatever YOU believe. I hope he finds another hobby.
Passive criticism is worthless. Tell us, Silat, what you do YOU believe in?
Cheers,
Gunthr
Not your God..
My beliefs are mine. As yours should be yours.
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Just repeat "Biggy Smalls" three times into a mirror...
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I still accept gifts ..
And correct. I dont celebrate Xmas.
But Im invited to others Xmas functions and might go as a guest. I love pagan holidays that have food and merryment
Pagan? Sounds like you read alot but fail to understand anything.
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Originally posted by Silat
I still accept gifts ..
And correct. I dont celebrate Xmas.
But Im invited to others Xmas functions and might go as a guest. I love pagan holidays that have food and merryment:)
I just envisioned one of those parasite fish hanging off a great white shark....
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Originally posted by Black Sheep
I still accept gifts ..
And correct. I dont celebrate Xmas.
But Im invited to others Xmas functions and might go as a guest. I love pagan holidays that have food and merryment
Pagan? Sounds like you read alot but fail to understand anything.
Au contraire my young Jedi.
You are the one who hasnt read where the holidays come from.
After you use google or your public library you can then come back here and say "wow I did not know that".
Ill even get you started.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I just envisioned one of those parasite fish hanging off a great white shark....
Do you have that at your party?:)
Im finished celebrating the festival of lights. So going to Christians homes that Im invited to seems to be just fine. And they know that Xmas is based on a pagen holiday. Does that shake anyones faith in their God of choice? If it does then your faith must not be very strong.
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Thanks, Pooh21, for your input. I was hoping that the respondant could answer for himself. Merry Christmas!
If you are referring to me I did answer. You just dont like it:)
Happy Holidays to you and yours Gunthr.
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Originally posted by Silat
Do you have that at your party?:)
no, but I'm pretty sure you are a resident of Eugene rather than Portland. That is, the Peoples Republic of Eugene.
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Originally posted by Silat
Do you have that at your party?:)
no, I don't see too many freeloaders at the parties I partake in, but I'm pretty sure you are a resident of Eugene rather than Portland. ;)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
no, but I'm pretty sure you are a resident of Eugene rather than Portland. That is, the Peoples Republic of Eugene.
Naw.. Too many temptations in Eugene. All those cute college women:)
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Originally posted by Silat
Only if you believed in the first place. If you never believed then it doesnt apply:)
There are 800 explanations for everything men wrote in the BOOK. There are over 800 religions.
No. If you never believed, it **MIGHT** not apply. Belief in the thing doesn't make it exist, or not exist. It might be there whether or not you choose to believe in it.
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Went to the link read it got disgusted at the waste of internet space and left, same thing I do on religious sites, I don't care if theres a God, Satan, Heaven, or Hell. I don't want to broadcast myself on you tube, thats too much like going on Murry. And I don't want their stupid video. the Video store is right down the street and I get enough stupid movies there.
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Originally posted by storch
Jesus was born in the early spring and was executed in the early summer.
Jesus was executed just after Passover which begins on the 15th day of Nisan (on the Hebrew calendar), which falls between nightfall on March 25 and nightfall on April 24.
The definition of Summer has changed over the years, and was defined at one time to make June 24* midsummer nite, (hence the naming of Shakespeares play) making summer start halway between the spring equinox and the summer solstice. Passover is definately in spring.
The timing of execution is pretty set, the timing of birth is unknown.
December 25th was chosen to coincide with the festival of Saturn.
*Not sure why it isn't the 21st...
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Biggie Smalls
Biggie Smalls
Biggie Smalls
Ho
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Originally posted by lazs2
If he had a pair tho he would have a contest to see who could draw the best allah cartoon and publish em all.
Been there. Done that. Got nowhere.
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Originally posted by Eagler
so all you that do not believe are not celebrating Christmas right?
I'm sure you don't want to be considered a hypocrite .....
How many people in this country celebrate Christmas for religious reasons anymore, anyway?
I haven't run into a whole lot up here (save the elderly)... But of course this is just one tiny corner of the nation...
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
No. If you never believed, it **MIGHT** not apply. Belief in the thing doesn't make it exist, or not exist. It might be there whether or not you choose to believe in it.
Whatever religious book etc. you (meaning anyone)choose to believe in is your business. Dont see how Gov Richard Perry of Texas saying that all non Christians are going to Hell has anything to do with me.
So many religions and they cant all be right. I believe none of them have it right. But if anyone here has sat down with their God please fill us in as to the answer. And I want pictures.
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Richard Petty is Governor of Texas??:O
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Silat, ihope you own a flame retard-ant suit because God is going to do a cooking show with your soul - probably featuring some sort of flambe' dish.
Merry Christmas Pooh :) Happy Holidays Silat! :)
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Who was the guy that was buying people's souls here a few years back?
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According to Mark 3:29 in the Holy Bible, "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." Jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he won't forgive you for denying the existence of the Holy Spirit. Ever. This is a one-way road you're taking here.
The actual context for this verse is that Yeshua, the Rebbe from Nazareth, was working obvious miracles of driving demonic spirits out of people. Some of the eyewitnesses in the entourage said that Yeshua was driving out spirits, not by the power of God, but by the power of Satan, i.e. calling the Holy Spirit an unclean, satanic spirit. That is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit that Yeshua said would never find forgiveness, not denying the existence of the Holy Spirit. In fact there are comments in the Talmud that Yeshua did indeed work miracles, though the charge again is not by the power of Hashem, but rather by secret arts. So, from jurisprudence, when opponents testify of the same thing about an issue, there is high likelihood for that particular matter to be true, i.e. that Yeshua really did perform outstanding miracles.
Nevertheless, it is also clear that those who consistently refuse to seek God will likewise receive everlasting separation from God's beneficence whether they’re a YouTube blasphemy star or not.
Tempted to blaspheme?
I knew a fellow from DFW who at age 18 had professed faith in Christ. He joined the Army, was sent to Europe, met a fräulein and married her. She was a Satanist and persuaded him to blaspheme Christ and acknowledge Satan as lord. Within a few months he was given a medical discharge from the Army, 90% permanent disability, for attempting suicide and other psychotic behavior. I became acquainted with the fellow about 12 years after that. Though usually lucid and conversant the fellow was still suffering even though under treatment, tormented by continual voices and bizarre spells. He said he wanted to find a way to get right with God and be healed from tormenting demonic spirits. One evening while in conversation he started acting bizarre. I began to exorcise spirits. At one point he lunged at me, his face about three inches from my face and contorted grotesquely, and a low raspy voice growled, "You'll never get him, he's mine!" Yes, it really happened. I have to say that even with previous spiritual experiences this particular event was profound. A friend of mine who also knew of the fellow's situation later joined me and we continued to exorcise spirits. During the session both of us saw strange, fleeting black swirls in the air around the fellow's head many times. Our session ended that evening without final success. During all the time that I knew the tormented fellow he could never decide that he would renounce his vows to Satan, even while lucid, and he remained tormented.
I recommend not playing around with or promoting blasphemy even if you think it all a bunch of bunk. I would recommend carefully reconsidering the worldview of the Bible.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I just envisioned one of those parasite fish hanging off a great white shark....
Wait, I'm not understanding this... Is Christmas Christian, Pagan, or is it a giant ocean-dwelling predator??
It's sometimes nice to be an agnostic born to Jewish parents.
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Originally posted by Old Sport
I recommend not playing around with or promoting blasphemy even if you think it all a bunch of bunk. I would recommend carefully reconsidering the worldview of the Bible.
Hokus-pokus is only relevant to those who believe in the boogy-man
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Originally posted by sluggish
Hokus-pokus is only relevant to those who believe in the boogy-man
no it's not. there is a very real spiritual realm. though unseen it's effect are felt and the experience is common to all mankind. spirits make their presense known to all humanity. you have experienced it before and you certainly will again. all people sense the supernatural but for whatever reason some are more in tune with these forces. some of these people are drawn to the dark forces others are blessed and chosen by the creator to be indwealt by his spirit. a person has free will to choose where eternity will be spent and you have your very brief lifetime to make that choice. Jesus clearly states that many will choose incorrectly and only a few will be saved. those that select salvation will be hated by the others whether they openly express their faith or not. Jews are universally reviled because they are God's chosen people and Christians by extention because they are the co-inheritors of God's promise to Abraham.
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Originally posted by Old Sport
I recommend not playing around with or promoting blasphemy even if you think it all a bunch of bunk. I would recommend carefully reconsidering the worldview of the Bible.
You call yourself 'Old Sport'? I always had Nick Carraway pegged as a bit of a nihilistic athiest... Oh well.
I do hope you'll invite me to the next witch hunt, though... Just in case, I'll bring the silver bullets and the garlic necklace.
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Religion easily has the greatest BS story ever told. Think about it, religion has actually convinced people that there's an INVISIBLE MAN...LIVING IN THE SKY...who watches every thing you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten special things that he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever 'til the end of time...but he loves you. -George Carlin
edit- I have to confess, however, that I'm on the fence with this one; in an infinate universe there are infinate possibilities...
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Originally posted by Yknurd
Who was the guy that was buying people's souls here a few years back?
That was my ex husband :)
Oh wait you said buying, I thought you meant stealing
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george carlin and countless millions miss the point completely.
the ten rules deal with two issues, your relationship with the creator and your relationship with your fellow man.
they are an unattainable ideal.
if you study them and are honest you know that you personally can find nothing inherently wrong with the subject ideas. you must also realize that you have messed up on almost all of them.so you are guilty. the price of failure is eternal separation from that same creator. the creator left a mechanism that allows the individual to select if he wants separation or not. he left in place what amounts to a test and you pass or fail based on what you believe.
I too came to very same conclusion you just spelled out. from that point forward, without any personal outside influence other than reading material I began a search and a personal journey. I believe what is written in the Christian bible is correct. I believe Jesus Christ is the way.
my family agrees with most of you here and think I'm deluded. I think you who think I'm deluded need to buy some spiritually based asbestos underware. so there we have it, in a nutshell.
were I diverge from Christian doctrine is that I'm supposed to care about your soul and I apologize but I don't. I wish I did but my overriding belief in personal responsibilty makes it difficult for me to feel for the person who disregards such a plainly evident truth out of hand. well that and that I'm basically a potty mouth too. two areas that I'm trying to improve in but making painstakingly slow progress.
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gorge Carlin and a bunch of other people might not get it, but I bet ya Sam Kenision got the point :)
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enlighten me on sam kinison
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threads as this bring Matthew 7:6 to mind ...
may the true Spirit of Christmas touch each and every one of us as we all are in dire need of a shot of it
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Question... Is it possible to be a Christian but approach the Bible as if it were a "Mythbusters Special?"
Because, really, if you look at it... At face value, without investigation, the Bible is certainly a book of myths... Mythbusters breaks it down like:
BUSTED - This myth is not true whatsoever
PLAUSIBLE - This myth very well could be true
CONFIRMED - This myth is not a myth - it is fact.
Now, granted, I'm not exactly a student of the Bible, but a big interest in my life is the ancient world, and the Bible and the stories therein are a huge part of that. I've done some personal studying (though surely not as much as others on here), but at least I'm semi-acquainted with the field.
I also like all those Discovery Times, National Geographic, Science Channel, etc., specials on religion (which seem to be on ALL the time now, btw). Admittedly, if the History Channel is any guide - these will be flawed. But they do often raise interesting questions and possibilities.
Now (back on topic), these shows, and my readings, have pretty much convinced me that all three Mythbuster categories can be found in the Bible...
BUSTED - Worldwide flood during man's time, the creation of the earth, beasts, and man all within seven days. You can scream and believe it all you want to, if you figure it'll save you from hell or for whatever reason, the bottom line is, these things just did not happen. If you think God appreciates your unwavering belief in such things, fine. You call it faith, I call it sucking up.
PLAUSIBLE - Three wise men, ten plagues of Egypt... The "scientific" explanation for the ten plagues obviously can be argued against, but the whole domino effect idea is certainly plausible.
CONFIRMED - Jesus Christ lived, Paul travelled around the world, etc. Other sources mention them (and sources that aren't Christian-friendly, either).
Now, this is all assuming we're taking the Bible word for word here. But if you're willing to see it as a "rough guide" to what "basically" happened, even more stuff becomes plausible.
Noah's Flood? Well, take your pick: Gilgamesh or the Black Sea forming. Either would leave an impression. Globalwide? No. A regional devastation? Yep. During man's time? Sure is. Seems pretty obvious to someone not blinded by faith that something like this is probably what the Bible is referencing.
I dunno. There are plenty of scientific explanations for things in the Bible. The problem is, every time you try to apply one, you don't get the same precise results the Bible speaks of. So is it blasphemy to say "I basically believe in the Bible, but much that is referenced in it is obviously an embellishment of events that probably did happen, just not exactly as stated therein?"
Basically, I'm willing to believe in the plausible. But not in the busted. Shall I buy some asbestos underwear? Or is "ok" to not blindly follow the crowd?
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Originally posted by sluggish
And the invisible man has a list of ten special things that he does not want you to do.
i never coveted my neighbors wife, well ok, there was Sally, but i'm over her now.
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Silat, ihope you own a flame retard-ant suit because God is going to do a cooking show with your soul - probably featuring some sort of flambe' dish.
Merry Christmas Pooh :) Happy Holidays Silat! :)
Im not worried as Im one of the chosen people. And if there is a COD then I believe her to be fair and compassionate. Not the COD of the old testament.
:)
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Originally posted by Silat
Im not worried as Im one of the chosen people. And if there is a COD then I believe her to be fair and compassionate. Not the COD of the old testament.
:)
MMMmm... Cod.... Baked and served with butter and lemon... Yum...
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Originally posted by storch
. . .no one can be sure of what existists on the other side. . . .
Unless, of course, you're one of those who have been there and come back. . . .
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Originally posted by storch
enlighten me on sam kinison [/QUOTE
Comic in the 90's really good, ex preacher, made lots of god jokes. died because of a drunk driver, after making one last god and heaven joke. His close friends god finally got revenge on him for stopping religion and taking up comedy
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ya know... I think that there are two kinds of people that are constantly attacking religion...
Those who are unsure of themselves and those who are jealous.
Jealous of what? they seem to be jealous that the christians have found something to believe in.. some sort of inner peace and it... somehow... seems to make em very angry.
I don't really care that much. I am not a christian. I do believe in god tho.
I think anyone who doesn't is probly pretty lucky in some ways... it probly means that nothing too bad has ever happened to them... that they have never had to dredge up strength that they could not possibly have had.
Like I said.. I am not a christian but...
I have nothing but contempt for those who take every opportunity to bash them... it is like a scared little kid whistling in the dark.
These same people have no problem believing in ghosts or goblins or aliens or bigfoot.
When I see a christian bashing thread that is what I see... and imature scared little boy or.... some guy with a grudge against god... either way... silly stuff.
I suppose there are those who hate christians because they make em feel guilty... christians, nor anyone else, don't make me feel guilty. I only feel guilty when I am doing wrong and that is between me and my god.
I can see nothing good about christian bashers. They seem a very insecure and immature group.
lazs
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Originally posted by dmf
Originally posted by storch
enlighten me on sam kinison [/QUOTE
Comic in the 90's really good, ex preacher, made lots of god jokes. died because of a drunk driver, after making one last god and heaven joke. His close friends god finally got revenge on him for stopping religion and taking up comedy [/B]
almost everyone dies preacher or otherwise. there are two men who didn't die an earthly death yet but they will, and then they get to die twice. sam kinison is no different than you or I. God isn't some cosmic kill joy dispensing lightning bolts at those he's pissed with, well except maybe at silat.
Merry Christamas all.
:D
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Originally posted by storch
almost everyone dies preacher or otherwise. there are two men who didn't die an earthly death yet but they will, and then they get to die twice. sam kinison is no different than you or I. God isn't some cosmic kill joy dispensing lightning bolts at those he's pissed with, well except maybe at silat.
Merry Christamas all.
:D
Well if you actually sit down, read and comprehend the bible, then you'll find out that your god isn't exactly all that kindness and love thy neighbor stuff either
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Originally posted by lazs2
ya know... I think that there are two kinds of people that are constantly attacking religion...
Those who are unsure of themselves and those who are jealous.
Jealous of what? they seem to be jealous that the christians have found something to believe in.. some sort of inner peace and it... somehow... seems to make em very angry.
I don't really care that much. I am not a christian. I do believe in god tho.
I think anyone who doesn't is probly pretty lucky in some ways... it probly means that nothing too bad has ever happened to them... that they have never had to dredge up strength that they could not possibly have had.
Like I said.. I am not a christian but...
I have nothing but contempt for those who take every opportunity to bash them... it is like a scared little kid whistling in the dark.
These same people have no problem believing in ghosts or goblins or aliens or bigfoot.
When I see a christian bashing thread that is what I see... and imature scared little boy or.... some guy with a grudge against god... either way... silly stuff.
I suppose there are those who hate christians because they make em feel guilty... christians, nor anyone else, don't make me feel guilty. I only feel guilty when I am doing wrong and that is between me and my god.
I can see nothing good about christian bashers. They seem a very insecure and immature group.
lazs
I think it's a good thing to have a good balance of Christians and bashers. Lest either group becomes to full of themselves.
Pick a religion, it's a huge part of the reason this world is such a mess.
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Originally posted by dmf
Well if you actually sit down, read and comprehend the bible, then you'll find out that your god isn't exactly all that kindness and love thy neighbor stuff either
So you fully comprehend the bible?
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Mannnnnnnnn Abestos drawers won't even help these poor morons!
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Originally posted by mosgood
So you fully comprehend the bible?
I comprehend enough to know that your god leveled a couple of cities, Turned a woman into a stack of salt for looking back. flooded the entire planet, sent his only son to his death.
And dams you to hell for violating any of his 10 commandments, in fact in the first commandment he even starts that he's a jealous god, and doesn't want you to have any gods before, him which would make any civilized person wonder just how many gods thee really are out there to worship.
Not to mention the fact that he gave Adam and Eve the choice to gain wisdom or not then kicked them out of paradise for having a desire to know something.
You explain to me how a kind loving god can do that.
And don't say "cause thats how it was written" I want proof, not blind faith.
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Jeez Silat, I'm already an infidel, why would I want more trouble?
Merry Christmas!
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Originally posted by dmf
I comprehend enough to know that your god leveled a couple of cities, Turned a woman into a stack of salt for looking back. flooded the entire planet, sent his only son to his death.
And dams you to hell for violating any of his 10 commandments, in fact in the first commandment he even starts that he's a jealous god, and doesn't want you to have any gods before, him which would make any civilized person wonder just how many gods thee really are out there to worship.
Not to mention the fact that he gave Adam and Eve the choice to gain wisdom or not then kicked them out of paradise for having a desire to know something.
You explain to me how a kind loving god can do that.
And don't say "cause thats how it was written" I want proof, not blind faith.
I'm guessing you didn't comprehend a BIG part of the Bible, if you believe that God is not a loving God for sending his son to his death. He sent his son to his death for US. Because he loved US. He sent his son to the world to live a perfect life.. without sin or blame.. and then allowed his son to be blamed, tortured and killed FOR sinning to pay the price for our sins. It was the exchange neccessary for the price to be paid.
Sounds like love to me. Then, he raised his son from the dead and brought him back to heaven (Love for his son). For love of us. WIN WIN
I'm not sure what you mean by giving Adam and Eve a choice. In my Bible he warned them NOT to eat the fruit.. told them NOT to eat the fruit... not a choice.
He saved the woman from death... told her to live she can NOT look back.. duh!
What I think you are saying is, "If he kills or allows people to be killed.. how can he be loving?" Not putting words in your mouth. just guessing. My response is.. I'm sure the creator of everything has a little more of an educated idea of what DEATH, DYING really is. And it's probably a WHOLE LOT different than any of our perspectives are.
I think that if you believe that you have an eternal soul.. the disposition and location of the SOUL part of you is a heck of a lot more important then the fleshy stuff that only last 80 or so years... maybe that's how God sees it as well. (just guessing)
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BUSTED - Worldwide flood during man's time, the creation of the earth, beasts, and man all within seven days. You can scream and believe it all you want to, if you figure it'll save you from hell or for whatever reason, the bottom line is, these things just did not happen. If you think God appreciates your unwavering belief in such things, fine. You call it faith, I call it sucking up.
Busted? Hardly. Nearly all religions through out the world, even ones that weren't connected at all, have ancient myths about world wide floods. Through the shear volume of religions claiming that it did happen leads me to believe that it may have.
Plus they think they found the Arc. That's a big one.
Jealous of what? they seem to be jealous that the christians have found something to believe in.. some sort of inner peace and it... somehow... seems to make em very angry.
Jealous? I had hoped you above all would get this. Religion is only another form of control.
Every single bad thing that ever happened in all of human history was caused by religion and governments. Logic would conclude that we would be better off without either.
I'm not sure what you mean by giving Adam and Eve a choice. In my Bible he warned them NOT to eat the fruit.. told them NOT to eat the fruit... not a choice.
Please, adam and eve was only a concoction to attempt to make even the most righteous and courageous person feel guilty for something they never did. Again, more control over man.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Busted? Hardly. Nearly all religions through out the world, even ones that weren't connected at all, have ancient myths about world wide floods. Through the shear volume of religions claiming that it did happen leads me to believe that it may have.
Well, no one can find any trace of it having happened. Whatsoever. That's pretty busted to me.
Geologic evidence vs. heresay. Yeah, "hardly," indeed.
If so many different regions have myths about worldwide floods, I think the logical conclusion is that many different regions have had some pretty tremendous regional floods.
But, of course, the ancients, having things like the world wide web, and satellites, would be in a prime position to judge if a flood really occurred all across the globe at the same time.
You're right. Let's give this one a "maybe." ;)
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Plus they think they found the Arc. That's a big one.
Who is "they," and why is it "think?"
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"ancient myths "
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Originally posted by mosgood
I'm guessing you didn't comprehend a BIG part of the Bible, if you believe that God is not a loving God for sending his son to his death. He sent his son to his death for US. Because he loved US. He sent his son to the world to live a perfect life.. without sin or blame.. and then allowed his son to be blamed, tortured and killed FOR sinning to pay the price for our sins. It was the exchange neccessary for the price to be paid.
Sounds like love to me. Then, he raised his son from the dead and brought him back to heaven (Love for his son). For love of us. WIN WIN
I'm not sure what you mean by giving Adam and Eve a choice. In my Bible he warned them NOT to eat the fruit.. told them NOT to eat the fruit... not a choice.
He saved the woman from death... told her to live she can NOT look back.. duh!
What I think you are saying is, "If he kills or allows people to be killed.. how can he be loving?" Not putting words in your mouth. just guessing. My response is.. I'm sure the creator of everything has a little more of an educated idea of what DEATH, DYING really is. And it's probably a WHOLE LOT different than any of our perspectives are.
I think that if you believe that you have an eternal soul.. the disposition and location of the SOUL part of you is a heck of a lot more important then the fleshy stuff that only last 80 or so years... maybe that's how God sees it as well. (just guessing)
Ok so god was withholding knowledge fro Adam and Eve then, forbidding them to get it.
You didn't exp[lain why he blew up a couple of cities, and flooded an entire planet or the commandments.
Face it religion is warlike, always has been, always will be, you people don't seem to understand religion, here a little hint, EVERY single god religion with the exception of the Devil worshipers, and pagans,worship the same god, he it Muslims Jews, Catholics, or whatever, you all worship the same god, and yet you drop bombs on each other cause you god told you to, yea sounds like a loving god to me
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Originally posted by Silat
http://www.blasphemychallenge.com/
Looks like you can personally damn yourself to hell forever, without ever having a chance at forgiveness, and by doing so you can receive a free copy of a DVD documentary called The God Who Wasn't There.
Looks like plenty of folks are taking the challenge and speaking the blasphemy of denying the existence of the holy spirit, posting it on Youtube and then sending a link of it to some internet outfit that's giving away a 1,001 of the DVD's.
According to Mark 3:29 in the Holy Bible, "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." Jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he won't forgive you for denying the existence of the Holy Spirit. Ever. This is a one-way road you're taking here.
:aok
Hmmm...........
denying the existance of the holy spirit .... is not my understanding of what constitutes blasphemy.
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Originally posted by storch
sorry that's not how Jesus is spelled. you may find yourself desperately wanting asbestos underware a split second after your last heartbeat. next question please. indeed, happy winter solstice to you. Jesus was born in the early spring and was executed in the early summer. this is a pagan holiday but an enjoyable one to be sure.
Hmmmm..................
it possible there might be an oops here? According to many scholars of such things the Birth was around Sept. 29?
What was the date of conception?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
You can murder, rape, and pillage and still be forgiven. But you even speak ill of the god (read: the religion) and you're damned to hell forever?
Did the writers of the bible have a good laugh when they wrote that crap down? Because it's still giving me the chuckles.
Hmmm........ thinkin if a look is made at the the rules/laws put forward within............
think it says if one commits murder one can NOT be forgiven while they remain in the flesh/upon the earth? ALL that commit murder, proven that is, are to be sent to God. That God and the innocent party are waiting to discuss things.
Rape, usually got the rapist the death penalty also.
As to the "speak ill of god" and damned to hell forever. Hmmm........ that is Not my understanding of the meaning of blasphemy. One can do such and NOT be commiting blasphemy IIRC.
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Originally posted by sluggish
They say there are no atheists in foxholes but aren't agnostics just atheists with no balls?
So unless you're born-again none of this counts right? If you never "accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior" you could theoretically deny his existance until your deathbed, wait till the last minute, "see the light," and be welcomed into his arms...
However, if you acknowledge his existence and his place as god or the son of god or whatever, then denounce him, you shall forever and always be damned to the eternal fires of hell.
Kind of makes me want to not get my kids baptized...
Something I find sad is all the people that want to make claims like the above. You can tell one thing. That haven't actually read the book, or understood what they read if they did, but their sure ready to critique it.
NOPE...........
"However, if you acknowledge his existence and his place as god or the son of god or whatever, then denounce him, you shall forever and always be damned to the eternal fires of hell."
............. is not my understanding of blasphemy.
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Originally posted by dmf
Ok so god was withholding knowledge fro Adam and Eve then, forbidding them to get it.
You didn't exp[lain why he blew up a couple of cities, and flooded an entire planet or the commandments.
Face it religion is warlike, always has been, always will be, you people don't seem to understand religion, here a little hint, EVERY single god religion with the exception of the Devil worshipers, and pagans,worship the same god, he it Muslims Jews, Catholics, or whatever, you all worship the same god, and yet you drop bombs on each other cause you god told you to, yea sounds like a loving god to me
I've wanted to respond to your postings....................
It's just my opinion, do I see bitterness? Perhaps some anger?
I want to say that the answers to your questions are contained within the book you say you read and got the information from.
The questions you are asking SUGGESTS ........ didn't actually read it? skiped around and only read certain parts?
Hmmm........... I do see a "you people" within the posting. That suggest to me that your mind is already made up.
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Originally posted by wrag
............. is not my understanding of blasphemy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy) < readth this and doth hath understandings. :D :lol :t
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Jesus, Satan and Allah walks into a bar...
The Bar tender asks what can I serve you?
Jesus orders wine, Satan a Scotch on the rocks and Allah water.
The Bar tender eyes all three guys and walks away...
With a wave of a finger Jesus points at Allah and "Poof" he's gone and Jesus Biyotch slaps the crap outta Satan and downs the Scotch....
Jesus looks Satan in the eye and sez... "Wanna see a trick?"
"I can walk on water... can you?"
Satan replies "I can warm that wine for you if you want."
Later they had Fish and Chips....
Moral of the Story....
Believe in what you have in your Heart. Don't push your beliefs upon me because I have my own. We can live together, just pay for the Fish and Chips!
Next water is on me.
Mac
Ohh and "MERRY CHRISTMAS" to all.
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vudak.. you are probly correct in saying that there has to be some balance in religion and those who bash it... that does not negate what I said tho. While I would not want to see any religion get too powerful or have control of me.. I still feel that those who bash it.. who bash the rank and file religious with little kid sarcasm are pretty pitiful.
and lasersailor... no... every bad thing that ever happened is not because of religion.. some of the worst men of all times were athiests like the commies or simply insane and power hungry like hitler. All the bad things happen about 90% of the time because of overpopulation. Religion has been used as an excuse for some to act the way they do tho in a lot of the "bad" cases.
All intolerant religions are evil in my opinion but... secular people can be intolerant to an even greater degree and in a wider variety of things... never know what will set off a secular control freak. If a man doesn't believe in god you can bet there is some nutball think he does believe in like socialism or bigfoot or aliens or man made global warming.... and you can bet he is gonna make bad things happen to me personaly because of his silly beliefs/religion.
The religion of the athiest is often a lot more dangerous to me on a personal level than the jehovas witness knocking at my door or trying to rid the library of some wicken book.
I fear the athiest more.
lazs
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It seems to me that the fire and brimstone that people are calling on here to prove that god is angry and vengeful is from the Olde Testament; the Hebrew Bible. If I remember correctly, Jesus being nailed to the cross fulfilled the prophesy and answered the Law of Moses, relieving those who accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior from abiding by it (or some such other silliness...). Remember that the Law of Moses and the Ten Commandments are two different things…
The people who we should ask about a vengeful god are his chosen people (Jews). I would personally like to open that discussion by asking, what's with all that crazy Leviticus stuff?
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Laz-
The whole effort of the sincere man is to erect his personal impressions into law.
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Originally posted by wrag
I've wanted to respond to your postings....................
It's just my opinion, do I see bitterness? Perhaps some anger?
I want to say that the answers to your questions are contained within the book you say you read and got the information from.
The questions you are asking SUGGESTS ........ didn't actually read it? skiped around and only read certain parts?
Hmmm........... I do see a "you people" within the posting. That suggest to me that your mind is already made up.
I can't have bitterness or anger towards something that doesn't exist, so no theres none there, I just don't understand how anybody in a modern age can follow something so blindly.
Yes I have read the bible, from Genesis to Revelation, my grandmother made us read it from cover to cover, not some modern worded bible either, I mean the good old King James version, every Sunday for 2 hours a day, and my mom couldn't do anything about it caise shes scared to death of my grandmother.
Yes my mind is made up, if there is a god out there somewhere, he's not what you think he is.
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Originally posted by lazs2
vudak.. you are probly correct in saying that there has to be some balance in religion and those who bash it... that does not negate what I said tho. While I would not want to see any religion get too powerful or have control of me.. I still feel that those who bash it.. who bash the rank and file religious with little kid sarcasm are pretty pitiful.
and lasersailor... no... every bad thing that ever happened is not because of religion.. some of the worst men of all times were athiests like the commies or simply insane and power hungry like hitler. All the bad things happen about 90% of the time because of overpopulation. Religion has been used as an excuse for some to act the way they do tho in a lot of the "bad" cases.
All intolerant religions are evil in my opinion but... secular people can be intolerant to an even greater degree and in a wider variety of things... never know what will set off a secular control freak. If a man doesn't believe in god you can bet there is some nutball think he does believe in like socialism or bigfoot or aliens or man made global warming.... and you can bet he is gonna make bad things happen to me personaly because of his silly beliefs/religion.
The religion of the athiest is often a lot more dangerous to me on a personal level than the jehovas witness knocking at my door or trying to rid the library of some wicken book.
I fear the athiest more.
lazs
Lazs, you know, I honestly believe that people who seem to "bash" religion in here are only going after the hardcore religious nuts and not the everyday joe who just believes his thing and doesn't bother anyone.
I mean, I've made some pretty harsh "anti" Christian comments over the years, but I'm not trying to kill off the religion or anything. I consider myself part of it.
But the facts are the facts. And the evidence is what it is. And those two things often don't back up religious myths. So are people who realize this not supposed to say anything?
I understand your point about "little kid sarcasim," but with each passing day, believing the Bible to be a 100% accurate, definitive account, just seems to ask for sarcasim more and more.
I mean, almost all of us are guilty of sarcastically chiding the Muslim who believes in his 70-odd virgins or what not. Why are some of the ideas expressed in the Bible any less ridiculous?
Is it bashing to ask this question?
Perhaps.
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sluggish..yes. I understand that. I also understand tolerance. As I said... I am not a christian but I would rather they be my enemy than the athiest with his myriad of beliefs... the vengeful god of athiests is communism and man made global warming and socialism and in your face hedonism.
Their beliefs in those gods (and any one that pops up) are more of a danger to my personal freedom than true christian faith. The bible doesn't create blue laws or dry counties or even ban dildos or porn for adults. But the athiest does ban everything in sight based on socialism or man made global warming and big govenment... no christian ever made me wear a helmet or a seatbelt or told me what kinds of guns I could own or how many.
I fear the EPA and the alphabet soup ninja police and the IRS a lot more than I fear christians.
lazs
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vudak... you have a point and.. if that is what you like to do then have at it.
I find that peoples deeply held beliefs are a little sacred tho and, unless they are really anoying about it..... should be left alone. When someone tells me they seen a ghost or an alien or whatever... I don't go into a big bashing fit over it. Hell... they may even be right... How would I know?
And that is the point.. we don't know. If we can't prove someones faith wrong.. why bother to bash it?
Man made global warming on the other hand.. that is tailored to affect my life. It's sole purpose is to gain power over us and give power to a few.
lazs
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Originally posted by sluggish
It seems to me that the fire and brimstone that people are calling on here to prove that god is angry and vengeful is from the Olde Testament; the Hebrew Bible. If I remember correctly, Jesus being nailed to the cross fulfilled the prophesy and answered the Law of Moses, relieving those who accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior from abiding by it (or some such other silliness...). Remember that the Law of Moses and the Ten Commandments are two different things…
The people who we should ask about a vengeful god are his chosen people (Jews). I would personally like to open that discussion by asking, what's with all that crazy Leviticus stuff?
Well first off the Christians believe in the new and the old. Secondly Jesus was a Jew and said he wasnt here to start a religion. His followers proceeded to start a religion after his death.
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I get what you're saying... But the way I see it, I'm not trying to "bash" the faith so much as the mentality.
Because the way I see it, if you're willing to believe in something 100% despite all the evidence against it, you're a fanatic.
And we've seen what such types do to this world.
I'd venture to say that a Christian fanatic is no different as a person than an Islamic fanatic. The only difference is the message in their books.
Granted, the Bible has a much nicer message. But I often wonder what would the world be like if it didn't.
Seems like Jesus did a pretty good job afterall.
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what does Jesus himself say? in Jesus' words the message was to be given to the jew first and then to greek in one account. in another account the message was to be as it is, to all humanity. in any event and in all accounts the Jesus is the bridge between fallen man and perfect God. this is why he came. the message is clear. what the individual does with the message is between he and God.
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vudak... I am not sure you see what I am saying.. In my opinion... I would no sooner go on a bashing tyrade against alien believers or bigfoot sighters than against christians...
I may make fun of a whole gathering if it were truly bizzare but... neither I nor (I hope) you would say it to em face to face on a personal level... First off... we, neither of us know for sure what is real or not... second... why do it?
Now... it is much different when someone says that we have to do something in the name of god or.... well.... aliens or man made global warming...
Then it is time to bash.
The sniping tho is unworthy and cowardly.
lazs
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I'm going to bow out on this one, Lazs, but I will say that anything I'd type on here I'd definately say to someone's face... For better or worse.
(Granted, I usually end up getting the worse :D )
But then again I don't really think I say anything all that bad on here, or in real life. Shrug.
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Originally posted by Vudak
I get what you're saying... But the way I see it, I'm not trying to "bash" the faith so much as the mentality.
Because the way I see it, if you're willing to believe in something 100% despite all the evidence against it, you're a fanatic.
And we've seen what such types do to this world.
I'd venture to say that a Christian fanatic is no different as a person than an Islamic fanatic. The only difference is the message in their books.
Granted, the Bible has a much nicer message. But I often wonder what would the world be like if it didn't.
Seems like Jesus did a pretty good job afterall.
Your atheist fanatics like the communists however are in an altogether different category when it comes to brutality, imo.
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Originally posted by lukster
Your atheist fanatics like the communists however are in an altogether different category when it comes to brutality, imo.
I'll certainly give you that.
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Originally posted by Vudak
I get what you're saying... But the way I see it, I'm not trying to "bash" the faith so much as the mentality.
Because the way I see it, if you're willing to believe in something 100% despite all the evidence against it, you're a fanatic.
And we've seen what such types do to this world.
I'd venture to say that a Christian fanatic is no different as a person than an Islamic fanatic. The only difference is the message in their books.
Granted, the Bible has a much nicer message. But I often wonder what would the world be like if it didn't.
Seems like Jesus did a pretty good job afterall.
Hmmm .................... IMHO in this day and age I have difficulty believing a Christian fanatic would try to kill you for disagreeing. But we are all intitled to our opinion.
As to believing 100% despite all the evidence against, doesn't that depend on what one calls evidence?
I've seen WAY too much of what many call scientific evidence become null and void far too many times! THEY DON'T KNOW WAY TOO MUCH! IMHO the things they don't know is far greater then the things they do know. If they have no way to measure something, or can't even find out if it actually exist, then they make claims and put forward theroies. Which are later often proven UNTRUE or INACCURATE. One can have FAITH in their claims and theroies if one is so inclined.
I would also think much of what one believes resides within the life they have lived.
I further think that without the Christian religion we, all of us, would not be as free, equal, wealthy, healthy, etc.........
Much of our system and laws were founded on the Mosaic. But again I'm stating an opinion here.
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Originally posted by dmf
I can't have bitterness or anger towards something that doesn't exist, so no theres none there, I just don't understand how anybody in a modern age can follow something so blindly.
Yes I have read the bible, from Genesis to Revelation, my grandmother made us read it from cover to cover, not some modern worded bible either, I mean the good old King James version, every Sunday for 2 hours a day, and my mom couldn't do anything about it caise shes scared to death of my grandmother.
Yes my mind is made up, if there is a god out there somewhere, he's not what you think he is.
It is possible that because it was FORCED on you, allot didn't make sense or have any meaning.
IMHO forcing such on anyone is WRONG!
Modern? Every age is a modern age for those living it! I mean after all it's all they got, right? Blindly? You have seen what other have seen? You have lived as other have lived?
IMHO you have every right to see things as you will, or choose, or the life you have lived seems to direct you.
By that same reasoning I MUST say to you, I hope you are not one of those that INSISTS that their beliefs and their way of viewing the world is the only CORRECT way.
As to what or who I think God is, how can you claim that God is not what I think God is? As we have never discussed my beliefs. You can read my mind?
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Originally posted by lazs2
and lasersailor... no... every bad thing that ever happened is not because of religion.. some of the worst men of all times were athiests like the commies or simply insane and power hungry like hitler. All the bad things happen about 90% of the time because of overpopulation. Religion has been used as an excuse for some to act the way they do tho in a lot of the "bad" cases.
Selective reading much? I linked all the bad things that happen in the world to Religion AND government. Both things are bad.
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Originally posted by wrag
Hmmm .................... IMHO in this day and age I have difficulty believing a Christian fanatic would try to kill you for disagreeing. But we are all intitled to our opinion.
Wrag, respectfully, I think my point went right over your head. I'll reiterate...
Basically, a fanatic is a fanatic is a fanatic. They all are set to give 100% for their cause. Christians, admittedly, have a good cause that doesn't preach violence, wheareas other religions (Islam) do.
I'll give Christians that.
But my point is, if the Bible said "kill the infidel," the people who claim the Bible is 100% accurate would naturally have to "kill the infidel," or else they wouldn't believe it to be 100% accurate.
So the difference between fanatics is not the person, but the book, at least IMO.
As to believing 100% despite all the evidence against, doesn't that depend on what one calls evidence?
I've seen WAY too much of what many call scientific evidence become null and void far too many times! THEY DON'T KNOW WAY TOO MUCH! IMHO the things they don't know is far greater then the things they do know. If they have no way to measure something, or can't even find out if it actually exist, then they make claims and put forward theroies. Which are later often proven UNTRUE or INACCURATE. One can have FAITH in their claims and theroies if one is so inclined.
See, the thing about science is that theories are naturally torn apart within the scientific community. Other scientists advance their own theories, much work and studying is done, and eventually you emerge with a pretty good idea, the basics of which don't *usually* change.
HOWEVER, science CAN change. And that is the beauty of it. Just a few weeks ago, there was a MAJOR change in how we view human evolution, for example, as it was discovered that Neanderthal was actually an ancestor of modern humans. For years, it was assumed Neanderthal was not. (I personally didn't believe they were until the evidence proved me wrong).
Religion, on the other hand, CANNOT change. If you say "The Bible is 100% accurate," that will never, ever change, no matter what is shown.
Therein lies the fundamnetal difference, and why one is based on reason and research, and the other in faith and, arguably, at least in some areas, denial.
Now, why religion can't change as science figures stuff out, I don't know. If the Bible is proven not to be 100% accurate, does that really mean one can't still believe in God? Or that Jesus died for our sins?
Does faith have to be blind? Does one have to completely turn their backs to reason to have it?
I'd say not, but some people I've met in life seem to think otherwise.
I would also think much of what one believes resides within the life they have lived.
I further think that without the Christian religion we, all of us, would not be as free, equal, wealthy, healthy, etc.........
Much of our system and laws were founded on the Mosaic. But again I'm stating an opinion here.
And, you know, I think you're right. Please don't get me confused with someone who is totally against religion, because I'm not... I think religion is a good thing. It gives people hope, and helps them do the right thing. It helps spread compassion and leniency and good things... I consider myself religious, in fact. I pray and such. I think Jesus' ideas were pretty noble, and worth trying to copy.
Anyway, the timing of my participation in this thread was in bad taste, given the holidays and all. So my apologies to the more devout than I :)
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Originally posted by Silat
Well first off the Christians believe in the new and the old. Secondly Jesus was a Jew and said he wasnt here to start a religion. His followers proceeded to start a religion after his death.
I'll subscribe to what you're selling but by and large Christians don't buy into a majority of the Old Testament. The Old Testament is the Jewish Bible. There really isn't that much difference between the brutality of the Old Testament and the Koran. For example, that Leviticus Question I asked that everyone pretended they didn't see...
Jesus preached to turn the other cheek and what-not. I think he would probably really fit in well with today's blunt smoking hippies. I think John Lennon said it best when he said that "Jesus was alright but his disciples were thick and ordinary." It's like when you played that game in school where you whispered a message in your neighbor’s ear and they passed it on and you saw how the message got totally turned around by the time it got to the end of the line. We see on a daily basis how people will consistently screw everything up. How can we expect a two-thousand year old story passed on from generation to generation, translated from one tongue to another and then back again to have any semblance of the truth, let alone the word of god?
And let it be known that I am not denying god, I'm just questioning the messenger.
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Originally posted by lukster
Your atheist fanatics like the communists however are in an altogether different category when it comes to brutality, imo.
Wow you labeled someone. Did he say he was an atheist?
And you are the 2nd person to label someone a communist because they dont agree with you.
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Originally posted by wrag
It is possible that because it was FORCED on you, allot didn't make sense or have any meaning.
IMHO forcing such on anyone is WRONG!
Modern? Every age is a modern age for those living it! I mean after all it's all they got, right? Blindly? You have seen what other have seen? You have lived as other have lived?
IMHO you have every right to see things as you will, or choose, or the life you have lived seems to direct you.
By that same reasoning I MUST say to you, I hope you are not one of those that INSISTS that their beliefs and their way of viewing the world is the only CORRECT way.
As to what or who I think God is, how can you claim that God is not what I think God is? As we have never discussed my beliefs. You can read my mind?
Well yea, my grandmother was a religious fanatic, to the point of Carries mother in the Stephen King movie.
I see things for what they are, if somebody tells me a person is filled with good and I see him choking a puppy to death, then he obviously isn't a good person.
I don't push my religion on anybody, my religion has been shunned, purseacuted, and burned at the stake, just because it isn't understood, so I tend to keep mine private, and amongst me and my own.
I'm not trying to discus beliefs with U, I just want to make a point that blind faith is not a good thing, research EVERYTHING, before saying that any deity is a peaceful and loving deity.
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Originally posted by dmf
I don't push my religion on anybody, my religion has been shunned, purseacuted, and burned at the stake, just because it isn't understood, so I tend to keep mine private, and amongst me and my own.
The center of Christianity was shunned, pursecuted and nailed to a cross just because he was misunderstood.
dmf, there have been a lot of people throughout history that have manipulated and warped the words of the bible to fit thier own personal goals. But Jesus's message in the bible does not speak of harming anyone... even puppies. :)
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Originally posted by Silat
Wow you labeled someone. Did he say he was an atheist?
And you are the 2nd person to label someone a communist because they dont agree with you.
Perhaps I wasn't clear. Let me rephrase.
Take athiest fanatics, for example the communists, they murdered millions.
I wasn't calling anyone here a fanatic or a communist. You misunderstood my comment.
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Originally posted by mosgood
The center of Christianity was shunned, pursecuted and nailed to a cross just because he was misunderstood.
dmf, there have been a lot of people throughout history that have manipulated and warped the words of the bible to fit thier own personal goals. But Jesus's message in the bible does not speak of harming anyone... even puppies. :)
You gotta be kidding me, hello, whats flooding the planet and the 2 of every animal that Noah took with him about them, unless the people outside the ark could breather water, I think they might have been harmed, killed even. And what about Lots wife that looked back at her city , didn't your god turn her into a pillar of salt? Sounds like harm to me. Thats right in the bible.
Thanks but I'm happy the way I am. Not about to change religions just cause its popular, or because its one of the few that was remembered. there are more religions out there than christian.
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Originally posted by mosgood
The center of Christianity was shunned, pursecuted and nailed to a cross just because he was misunderstood.
dmf, there have been a lot of people throughout history that have manipulated and warped the words of the bible to fit thier own personal goals. But Jesus's message in the bible does not speak of harming anyone... even puppies. :)
It doesnt. but it most certainly has
The Inquisition (http://www.rotten.com/library/history/inquisition/)
Ahh the good old days
Lasted over 600 years too till 1834
(http://www.rotten.com/library/history/inquisition/inquisition1.jpg)
(http://www.rotten.com/library/history/inquisition/inquisition2.gif)
(http://www.rotten.com/library/history/inquisition/inquisition3.jpg)
"To assist people in repenting, the Inquisitors used any torture method they could think of, with the theoretical restriction that they couldn't break the skin. The Inquisitors came up with numerous gadgets to work within this restriction. They included
The Judas Chair: This was a large pyramid-shaped "seat." Accused heretics were placed on top of it, with the point inserted into their anuses or genitalia, then very, very slowly lowered onto the point with ropes. The effect was to gradually stretch out the opening of choice in an extremely painful manner.
The Head Vice: Pretty straightforward concept. They put your head into a specially fitted vice, and tighten it until your teeth are crushed, your bones crack and eventually your eyes pop out of their sockets.
The Pear: A large bulbous gadget is inserted in the orifice of choice, whether mouth, anus or vagina. A lever on the device then causes it to slowly expand whilst inserted. Eventually points emerge from the tips. (Apparently, internal bleeding doesn't count as "breaking the skin.")
The Wheel: Heretics are strapped to a big ol' wheel, and their bones are clubbed into shards. Not very creative, but quite effective
Methods of execution weren't much better. Since death was the eventual outcome, the skin-breaking point was rendered largely moot. While burning at the stake was the most widely used method, being cost-effective and providing a fun spectacle for the whole family, there were other approaches used in special cases:
Sawing: Heretics were hung upside-down and sawed apart down the middle, starting at the crotch.
Disembowelment: Not the nice kind of disembowelment, where a samurai slits you wide open like a fish and you die in moments. No, that's not good enough for the Inquisition. A small hole is cut in the gut, then the intestines are drawn out slowly and carefully, keeping the victim alive for as much of the process as possible.
The Stake: Depending on how unrepentant a heretic might be, the process of burning at the stake could vary wildly. For instance, a fairly repentant heretic might be strangled, then burned. An entirely unrepentant heretic could be burned over the course of hours, using green wood or simply by placing them on top of hot coals and leaving them there until well done.
The last burning organized by the Inquisition was in 1834, when the Spanish Inquisition was officially abolished"
:D
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Jesus's message didn't have anything that resembled what happend during the times of The Inquisition either.
Just because someone says they represent something... doesn't automatically mean they do.
Again, a lot of people throughout history have manipulated and warped the words of the bible to fit thier own personal goals.
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Originally posted by mosgood
Jesus's message didn't have anything that resembled what happend during the times of The Inquisition either.
Just because someone says they represent something... doesn't automatically mean they do.
Again, a lot of people throughout history have manipulated and warped the words of the bible to fit thier own personal goals.
True. But this was official Church policy
and the same thing can be said for every other religeon
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Originally posted by Vudak
Wrag, respectfully, I think my point went right over your head. I'll reiterate..."
Naw I caught it. To be honest if a religion told me to kill all unbeleivers I'm inclined to think I would fight that religion. But I also must admit I was NOT brought into a world that many in the Islamic east are living in now.
"Basically, a fanatic is a fanatic is a fanatic. They all are set to give 100% for their cause. Christians, admittedly, have a good cause that doesn't preach violence, wheareas other religions (Islam) do.
I'll give Christians that.
But my point is, if the Bible said "kill the infidel," the people who claim the Bible is 100% accurate would naturally have to "kill the infidel," or else they wouldn't believe it to be 100% accurate.
So the difference between fanatics is not the person, but the book, at least IMO."
OK I have to grant that as it make sense
"See, the thing about science is that theories are naturally torn apart within the scientific community. Other scientists advance their own theories, much work and studying is done, and eventually you emerge with a pretty good idea, the basics of which don't *usually* change.
HOWEVER, science CAN change. And that is the beauty of it. Just a few weeks ago, there was a MAJOR change in how we view human evolution, for example, as it was discovered that Neanderthal was actually an ancestor of modern humans. For years, it was assumed Neanderthal was not. (I personally didn't believe they were until the evidence proved me wrong).
Religion, on the other hand, CANNOT change. If you say "The Bible is 100% accurate," that will never, ever change, no matter what is shown.
Therein lies the fundamnetal difference, and why one is based on reason and research, and the other in faith and, arguably, at least in some areas, denial.
Now, why religion can't change as science figures stuff out, I don't know. If the Bible is proven not to be 100% accurate, does that really mean one can't still believe in God? Or that Jesus died for our sins?
Does faith have to be blind? Does one have to completely turn their backs to reason to have it?
I'd say not, but some people I've met in life seem to think otherwise."
Interesting thought here. Suggestion........ when one gets to the end of Genesis 1 and reads and then God rested, I have noticed in Genesis 2 is where Adam and Eve are created. SO is it possible that mankind was created on the 6th day and Adam and Eve on the 8th :) Is it possible that it is an error to think that 2nd Genesis is a repeat of 1st Genesis? It would also explain where the wife of Cain came from. If my understanding is correct Cain is NOT of the Adamic line. He was NOT the child of Adam but of another.
If my understanding is correct the Adamic line was created for ONE purpose. It would bring forth Jesus.
"And, you know, I think you're right. Please don't get me confused with someone who is totally against religion, because I'm not... I think religion is a good thing. It gives people hope, and helps them do the right thing. It helps spread compassion and leniency and good things... I consider myself religious, in fact. I pray and such. I think Jesus' ideas were pretty noble, and worth trying to copy.
Anyway, the timing of my participation in this thread was in bad taste, given the holidays and all. So my apologies to the more devout than I :)
"
I think I understand you Vudak. I think my understanding of the Bible is different then yours Sir. I expressed a small part of that just above in this post.
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I think everyone, be they Christian,jew,or muslim feels a little bit of joy in their hearts when they shout
"Burn the Witch!!!"
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Originally posted by dmf
You gotta be kidding me, hello, whats flooding the planet and the 2 of every animal that Noah took with him about them, unless the people outside the ark could breather water, I think they might have been harmed, killed even. And what about Lots wife that looked back at her city , didn't your god turn her into a pillar of salt? Sounds like harm to me. Thats right in the bible.
Thanks but I'm happy the way I am. Not about to change religions just cause its popular, or because its one of the few that was remembered. there are more religions out there than christian.
Ahh the flood. Why did it happen? You read it, but because it was forced upon you I'm inclined to think you may have missed it. The Fallen Ones. They created a problem. Ran around beggetting n such. Their offspring were refered to as men of renoun and or giants. The renoun was not of a good sort. They were after the Adamic line. Wanted to destroy it. Seems Noah and his family were the only ones remaining of the Adamic line. Seems that what this place (the earth) was like was BAD. Very bad! Worse then present day Samolia, or the Nazi regime, or Stalin's time, or Pol Pot. IIRC the giants had a mean, cruel, and cannabalistic, streak as well.
Yep there are other religions. IMHO each should select the religion they believe suites them. HOWEVER IIRC NO religion is without a destructive time. As has been said in other post within this thread. Sadly, there is always someone that takes a religion and twists it to their own ends. Often creating something EVIL while doing so.
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Originally posted by dmf
Well yea, my grandmother was a religious fanatic, to the point of Carries mother in the Stephen King movie.
I see things for what they are, if somebody tells me a person is filled with good and I see him choking a puppy to death, then he obviously isn't a good person.
I don't push my religion on anybody, my religion has been shunned, purseacuted, and burned at the stake, just because it isn't understood, so I tend to keep mine private, and amongst me and my own.
I'm not trying to discus beliefs with U, I just want to make a point that blind faith is not a good thing, research EVERYTHING, before saying that any deity is a peaceful and loving deity.
I am NOT claming that either God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit are ONLY peaceful and loving. IMHO the Bible does not make this claim either.
It relates to the promise of FREE CHOICE! That we are not forced. Sadly some have made choices that are bad for all others, or at least for some of the population close enough to these types.
Should a NEW Hitler or Stalin type of person get into power near you. Maybe not complete power but say enough that they have thugs/followers that would take GREAT joy in coming to your home and doing terrible things to you. And perhaps inslaving you afterward. What would be your reaction?
Not a happy one I bet!
Now lets say they aren't coming for you but for your children and grandchildren!
What ya gonna do?
Ignore it? let em do as they please?
I'd rather believe you wouldn't. I'd rather believe if there was anything you could do to stop them you would do it!
BTW I have done a considerable amount of research. Even did some study of what many at the time refered to as the occult. Think it's now called wiccan. Looked at Islam, Buhdism, and one or 2 others. Usually found something rather quickly that made me back away. I could probably recall every reason if pressed.
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The Catholic Church became a political institution at roughly the time of the Council of Nicea, and developed some teachings that were most unscriptural. The sacraments, the selling of indulgences, and excommunication are just a few of these. Throughout the time of the Middle Ages, these teachings were used to maintain and expand the Church's hold over the minds and the lives of its congregation.
As the centuries went by, the Church leadership became ever more wealthy and corrupt, using it's might and influence to acquire control of vast amounts of land in Europe.
Ultimately, the Church's power and religious hegemony were broken by two things: the invention of the printing press which enabled the illiterate masses of Europe to read the Bible for themselves, and a courageous monk who nailed his personal challenges to Church teachings to the door of a church in Wittenberg, Germany.
The reaction of the Catholic Church to this challenge of its authority was swift and bloody. The religious wars that swept across northern Germany, Poland, and other areas of Europe, and which included the establishment of the Inquisition, ultimately ended in defeat for the Church.
In an effort to stop the defection of many of its congregation to the Protestant religions, the Catholic Church was forced to reassess and repudiate many of its own actions and beliefs.
So the Protestant Reformation proved to be a revolution in thought and deed that no counter-measures, such as the Inquisition, could erase. It moved the European world closer to the modern concept of true religious freedom.
So the Inquisition, which religion's detractors like to point to as a repudiation of religion in general, was itself an abhorrent aberration, and not a true representation of the modern Christian spirit. The Christian religion derived immense benefit from the Protestant Revolution.
Islam has yet to undergo a similar softening transformation, and is the only major religion in the modern world that has retained its embarassing and dangerous militancy.
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dred... I think that you need a history lesson... If you believe that the church was the only institution that tortured, imprissoned and killed people then you are mistaken..
It was the common behavior of the times.. we are talking spain and britan here... they were cruel countries that killed and maimed for a slice of bread stolen to feed a child.
The christian religion is a reflection of the times we live in.... just as the inquisition was a reflection of the times the modern christian religion is a reflection of today... this is the oppossite of the muslim one that is still rooted in the inquisition and the difference is apparent.
vudak... good enough. as I say... I am not a christian but I don't take much opportunity to bash them unless they get really annoying on a personal level... I believe modern christians do a lot of good in the world.
As for your god... the scientist... I have grudging respect for the scientist but realize that they are wrong most of the time. I have contempt for those scientists (and there are legions) who push forth half baked theories as if they were the stone tablets brought down from the mountain by moses himself... They are pompous power grubbers who cause great harm.
Their fanatical believers are more dangerous to me than any thousand jehovah witness groups at my door.. They try to affect my life with their bogus studies and models and tainted and flimsy data.
lazs
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Originally posted by wrag
Ahh the flood. Why did it happen? You read it, but because it was forced upon you I'm inclined to think you may have missed it. The Fallen Ones. They created a problem. Ran around beggetting n such. Their offspring were refered to as men of renoun and or giants. The renoun was not of a good sort. They were after the Adamic line. Wanted to destroy it. Seems Noah and his family were the only ones remaining of the Adamic line. Seems that what this place (the earth) was like was BAD. Very bad! Worse then present day Samolia, or the Nazi regime, or Stalin's time, or Pol Pot. IIRC the giants had a mean, cruel, and cannabalistic, streak as well.
Yep there are other religions. IMHO each should select the religion they believe suites them. HOWEVER IIRC NO religion is without a destructive time. As has been said in other post within this thread. Sadly, there is always someone that takes a religion and twists it to their own ends. Often creating something EVIL while doing so.
Oh so your god doesn't want anything HE doesn't approve of then right? Better come kill me now and save him the trouble
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Originally posted by Pooh21
I think everyone, be they Christian,jew,or muslim feels a little bit of joy in their hearts when they shout
"Burn the Witch!!!"
Always got to destroy or kill what isn't understood, or is different, or isn't what you want to live next door to.
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Originally posted by lazs2
dred... I think that you need a history lesson... If you believe that the church was the only institution that tortured, imprissoned and killed people then you are mistaken..
It was the common behavior of the times.. we are talking spain and britan here... they were cruel countries that killed and maimed for a slice of bread stolen to feed a child.
The christian religion is a reflection of the times we live in.... just as the inquisition was a reflection of the times the modern christian religion is a reflection of today... this is the oppossite of the muslim one that is still rooted in the inquisition and the difference is apparent.
No lesson needed
I was simply pointing out that the Christian religeon hands arent a whole lot cleaner then any of the others
BTW you forgot France ;)
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Originally posted by sluggish
I'll subscribe to what you're selling but by and large Christians don't buy into a majority of the Old Testament. The Old Testament is the Jewish Bible. There really isn't that much difference between the brutality of the Old Testament and the Koran. For example, that Leviticus Question I asked that everyone pretended they didn't see...
Jesus preached to turn the other cheek and what-not. I think he would probably really fit in well with today's blunt smoking hippies. I think John Lennon said it best when he said that "Jesus was alright but his disciples were thick and ordinary." It's like when you played that game in school where you whispered a message in your neighbor’s ear and they passed it on and you saw how the message got totally turned around by the time it got to the end of the line. We see on a daily basis how people will consistently screw everything up. How can we expect a two-thousand year old story passed on from generation to generation, translated from one tongue to another and then back again to have any semblance of the truth, let alone the word of god?
And let it be known that I am not denying god, I'm just questioning the messenger.
Well you ask any priest if the old book is the Jewish book. He will set you straight. Both books are the bible. The old book is the only book the Jews follow. Both books is what the Christians follow.
And I think we agree on a book written by men who were cultists having any real veracity.
Men are the problem with religion.
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Originally posted by dmf
Oh so your god doesn't want anything HE doesn't approve of then right? Better come kill me now and save him the trouble
You think God is a he? I don't. Neither a He nor a She.
Hmmm......... did you read my post? Am I talking to a closed, and locked mind? Are you condoning cannabalizim, rape, murder, enslavement of yourself or your children? I must say I don't approve of these things.
Look, IMHO witchcraft, magic, or whatever you want to call it, actually works, SORTA.
In most cases not overly well, or with much strength, if at all. I've seen too much to think otherwise.
LOL am I gonna catch it now! (FLAME SUITE ON!)
There is a problem with it. The problem is... NOTHING is FREE. It MUST be paid for! Sadly what many THINK is sufficent payment is more of a very SMALL downpayment. They're dealing with something that has NO intention of being truthful, nice, or fair to them. BUT they're getting what they THINK they want soooo.................... the defured payment plan? Watch out for that balloon payment towards the end!
They can go ahead and cast their spells or whatever. But KNOW that even if the spell doesn't SEEM to work. They've just got an expensive incoming collect call and accepted it. They are now running a TAB. And if they try it on the wrong person, succeed or not, the price goes WAY UP!
To those that much is given, much is expected? Or perhaps a better word....required?
Seeking power over others? Seeking control of others? Want to pay em back? Is it Fear? Rage? Bitterness? Need for Revenge?
What is the mindset behind such people? Why do some seek such an expensive thing? What drives such minds?
Anyone wanna try and explain?
BTW dmf I have NO desire to see you harmed. So not gonna do what you suggest.
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OK number one, didn't your god create man in his own image?
Sounds male genderish to me.
Second, I'm not closed or locked, I've just simply done my homework. You can't prove to me your god does exist, just as I can't prove to you that he doesn't exist, I'm simply stating that you people follow the approved religions blindly, not knowing if your religion is even real or the right one to follow, who knows in your world what if Southern Baptist is the right religion that will go to heaven, I know more then a few people that are screwed.
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Originally posted by lukster
Perhaps I wasn't clear. Let me rephrase.
Take athiest fanatics, for example the communists, they murdered millions.
I wasn't calling anyone here a fanatic or a communist. You misunderstood my comment.
Ok...:)
And just for clarity. There were many (millions) of commies that were religious. Communists as GODLESS is a rightwing scare tactic. It was used in the 50's to get money and support from the sheeple. After the wall came down they needed new issues. So, abortion and gay marriage was born.
And fanatics of any persuasion are a problem.
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Originally posted by Silat
Ok...:)
And just for clarity. There were many (millions) of commies that were religious. Communists as GODLESS is a rightwing scare tactic. It was used in the 50's to get money and support from the sheeple. After the wall came down they needed new issues. So, abortion and gay marriage was born.
And fanatics of any persuasion are a problem.
I'm sorry but that is simply untrue. Communists very much saw/see religion as a threat to their complete control over the people. I and others have posted many references to this in the past. You'd do well to do a little research and stop believing everything the secular-progressives tell you.
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Originally posted by wrag
You think God is a he? I don't. Neither a He nor a She.
You worship a transgender god? What are you a moony?
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Originally posted by Old Sport
The actual context for this verse is that Yeshua, the Rebbe from Nazareth, was working obvious miracles of driving demonic spirits out of people. Some of the eyewitnesses in the entourage said that Yeshua was driving out spirits, not by the power of God, but by the power of Satan, i.e. calling the Holy Spirit an unclean, satanic spirit. That is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit that Yeshua said would never find forgiveness, not denying the existence of the Holy Spirit. In fact there are comments in the Talmud that Yeshua did indeed work miracles, though the charge again is not by the power of Hashem, but rather by secret arts. So, from jurisprudence, when opponents testify of the same thing about an issue, there is high likelihood for that particular matter to be true, i.e. that Yeshua really did perform outstanding miracles.
Nevertheless, it is also clear that those who consistently refuse to seek God will likewise receive everlasting separation from God's beneficence whether they’re a YouTube blasphemy star or not.
Tempted to blaspheme?
I knew a fellow from DFW who at age 18 had professed faith in Christ. He joined the Army, was sent to Europe, met a fräulein and married her. She was a Satanist and persuaded him to blaspheme Christ and acknowledge Satan as lord. Within a few months he was given a medical discharge from the Army, 90% permanent disability, for attempting suicide and other psychotic behavior. I became acquainted with the fellow about 12 years after that. Though usually lucid and conversant the fellow was still suffering even though under treatment, tormented by continual voices and bizarre spells. He said he wanted to find a way to get right with God and be healed from tormenting demonic spirits. One evening while in conversation he started acting bizarre. I began to exorcise spirits. At one point he lunged at me, his face about three inches from my face and contorted grotesquely, and a low raspy voice growled, "You'll never get him, he's mine!" Yes, it really happened. I have to say that even with previous spiritual experiences this particular event was profound. A friend of mine who also knew of the fellow's situation later joined me and we continued to exorcise spirits. During the session both of us saw strange, fleeting black swirls in the air around the fellow's head many times. Our session ended that evening without final success. During all the time that I knew the tormented fellow he could never decide that he would renounce his vows to Satan, even while lucid, and he remained tormented.
I recommend not playing around with or promoting blasphemy even if you think it all a bunch of bunk. I would recommend carefully reconsidering the worldview of the Bible.
I bet she was a gypsie. Where's xmarine when you need him?
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Originally posted by dmf
Second, I'm not closed or locked, I've just simply done my homework. You can't prove to me your god does exist, just as I can't prove to you that he doesn't exist, I'm simply stating that you people follow the approved religions blindly, not knowing if your religion is even real or the right one to follow, who knows in your world what if Southern Baptist is the right religion that will go to heaven, I know more then a few people that are screwed.
Do you mean that since you've done your homework you've made up your mind? What I hear from you DMF is a lot of small blurbs of parts of the bible without any understanding of what they mean. And from there you are basing your final judgement. You mentioned that your grandmother made you read the King James Version.. a lot of people have a hard time reading and understanding it.. I'm one of them and I know that if I was a kid and read the KJV I probably would have understood less than you did. Never mind the part where as a kid when you are MADE to do something it's harder to pay attention.
I say this because a lot of the things you are saying are exactly the things I was saying about the bible before I actually read it. I mean a more modern translation that provided me a better understanding. It's not what I thought it was. After I realized that my personal research, before reading a better version, was under a false impression, I also started talking to people that had a better understanding then I did and directed me to find out more info.
Anyways, not trying to stick anything down anyones throat... just my 2 cents.
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Tell that to the preachers, fathers, and reverends that always get the questions about your god and the bible and all they say is" because it is written" I can write a book.
I might be going out on a limb here but I get the feeling that if I say what my religion is that theres about 5 people on here that dam me to hell, 4 that will try to convert me, 2 that will laugh, 1 that'll say I'm tooling, 50 that will read it and post nothing, 4 that will pretend to have pity on me ( which I really don't want or need) and 1 that will actually feel pity for me.
My grandmother is VERY religious, and she can translate what the king James version means into plain everyday English off the top of her head without even thinking about it. But I don't think I'm under a false impression about the bible. Your god is a god of war not peace. Want proof, watch the news, or better yet watch that nut case Pat Robertson on the 700 club, he'll tell ya to break the 10 commandments rule about killing and smile while he does it.
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Originally posted by dmf
I might be going out on a limb here but I get the feeling that if I say what my religion is that theres about 5 people on here that dam me to hell, 4 that will try to convert me, 2 that will laugh, 1 that'll say I'm tooling, 50 that will read it and post nothing, 4 that will pretend to have pity on me ( which I really don't want or need) and 1 that will actually feel pity for me.
I see what you mean. It's a lot more fun judging and critisizing without all the facts other religions than it is to actually grow a pair and claim what YOUR religion is for fear of the same treatment you are dishing out.
I'll judge yours but I am afraid you will judge mine?
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Originally posted by lukster
I'm sorry but that is simply untrue. Communists very much saw/see religion as a threat to their complete control over the people. I and others have posted many references to this in the past. You'd do well to do a little research and stop believing everything the secular-progressives tell you.
Iron many many communists from the former Soviet Union were Christians. Guess you havent seen the pictures of the churches.
Communism is a form of government.
I think it is you who need to use google:)
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Originally posted by Silat
Iron many many communists from the former Soviet Union were Christians. Guess you havent seen the pictures of the churches.
Communism is a form of government.
I think it is you who need to use google:)
You think Communist Party members were church members?
Religion serves a need, isn't that why every society developed a religion?
Isn't communism like a religion for some people?
Isn't liberalism like a religion for some people?
Irrational beliefs taken on faith and imposed on other people, isn't that you Silat? :D
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Originally posted by mosgood
I see what you mean. It's a lot more fun judging and critisizing without all the facts other religions than it is to actually grow a pair and claim what YOUR religion is for fear of the same treatment you are dishing out.
I'll judge yours but I am afraid you will judge mine?
Ok I'll tell you, (like You haven't figured it out already) I'm Wiccan.
Now I don't judge religions, I simply say what I see of them. As far as pagan religions, before you judge my religion and dam me to hell, can you tell me when was the last time ANY pagan religion started a useless war? Or persecuted others because they were different? Or tried to totally exterminate an entire race?
I'm at peace, are you?
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Originally posted by dmf
Ok I'll tell you, (like You haven't figured it out already) I'm Wiccan.
Now I don't judge religions, I simply say what I see of them. As far as pagan religions, before you judge my religion and dam me to hell, can you tell me when was the last time ANY pagan religion started a useless war? Or persecuted others because they were different? Or tried to totally exterminate an entire race?
I'm at peace, are you?
I don't know anything about Wiccan.
Mostly people start wars. Of course there are religious texts of certain religions that require killing non-believers.. Christianity is not one of them.. but there have been people that have warped the words of Christianity to justify wars.
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Originally posted by Silat
Iron many many communists from the former Soviet Union were Christians. Guess you havent seen the pictures of the churches.
Communism is a form of government.
I think it is you who need to use google:)
I know wikipedia is not always a reliable source but here's an excerpt that pretty much sums up everything I've read or heard over the decades. If you want to compare other sources I'll match you tit for tat.
"An intense ideological anti-Christian and anti-religious campaign was carried out throughout the history of the Soviet Union. An extensive education and propaganda campaign was undertaken to convince people, especially the children and youth, not to become believers. The role of the Christian religion and the Church was painted in black colors in school textbooks. For instance, much emphasis was placed on the role of the Church in such historical horror stories as the Inquisition, persecution of Galileo, Giordano Bruno, and other heretical scientists, and the Crusades. School students were encouraged to taunt and use peer pressure against classmates wearing crosses or otherwise professing their faith. In the 1920s there were many "anti-God" publications and social clubs sponsored by the government, most notably the scathingly satirical "Godless at the Workbench" ("Bezbozhnik u Stanka" in Russian). Later on, these disappeared because a new generation has grown up essentially atheist."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians
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Originally posted by Suave
You worship a transgender god? What are you a moony?
Nope. Didn't say that. Might be how you took it but it isn't what I said.
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Originally posted by Silat
http://www.blasphemychallenge.com/
Looks like you can personally damn yourself to hell forever, without ever having a chance at forgiveness, and by doing so you can receive a free copy of a DVD documentary called The God Who Wasn't There.
Looks like plenty of folks are taking the challenge and speaking the blasphemy of denying the existence of the holy spirit, posting it on Youtube and then sending a link of it to some internet outfit that's giving away a 1,001 of the DVD's.
According to Mark 3:29 in the Holy Bible, "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." Jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he won't forgive you for denying the existence of the Holy Spirit. Ever. This is a one-way road you're taking here.
:aok
Starting at Mark 3:23 and ending at Mark 3:30,
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So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables:
"How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. In fact, no one can enter a strong man's house and carry off his posessions unless first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house. I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphamies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blaphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
He said this because they were saying, "He has an evil spirit."
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One of my pet peeves is taking quotations out of context. My interpretation of this passage is that you can discount Jesus as god, but saying Jesus is Satan is unforgivable. I suppose people who are really curious can give this a try. Good luck with that.
Regards,
Malta
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Originally posted by dmf
Tell that to the preachers, fathers, and reverends that always get the questions about your god and the bible and all they say is" because it is written" I can write a book.
I might be going out on a limb here but I get the feeling that if I say what my religion is that theres about 5 people on here that dam me to hell, 4 that will try to convert me, 2 that will laugh, 1 that'll say I'm tooling, 50 that will read it and post nothing, 4 that will pretend to have pity on me ( which I really don't want or need) and 1 that will actually feel pity for me.
My grandmother is VERY religious, and she can translate what the king James version means into plain everyday English off the top of her head without even thinking about it. But I don't think I'm under a false impression about the bible. Your god is a god of war not peace. Want proof, watch the news, or better yet watch that nut case Pat Robertson on the 700 club, he'll tell ya to break the 10 commandments rule about killing and smile while he does it.
Hmmm..... sure looks to me like some misunderstanding of parts of the Bible is happening! Some still cling to a misquote or misunderstanding made popular in the 60's.
If you read the original language regarding thou shalt not KILL you will find it actually says thou shalt not MURDER. (Thinkin maybe Grandma isn't translating correctly? or auto turn off listening when Grandma speaks is engaged?????)
Big difference in meaning to allot of people. I tend to think kill and murder mean pretty much the same but most think of the 2 terms as different. To slay, to me, has a very different meaning then kill or murder.
Murder = taking the life of an innocent.
I have to tell you right up front. I'm not daming you to hell. I don't pity you. I don't think it's funny. I'm not trying to convert you either. I've come to believe from much of what I see in your postings that I'm pretty sure you are locked into you views.
I am pointing out that my understanding differs from yours. I'm responding ....
OK lets back up some because I'm rather troubled by something.................... ..........
Referenceing ........ The flood and why did it happen. AKA the reasons given in the Bible for why the flood occured.
NOTE: Bible says Giants are offspring of The Fallen Ones and human females...........
NOTE: there were MANY of them!
NOTE: The Giants in the Bible = ............rape, murder, canabalizm, and enslavement of people (hmm would little people fit here?).
NOTE: >>>> Goliath was one.
Now lets go to what is troubling me please.............
I did notice my question to you regarding rape, murder, cannabalizm, and inslavement of youself or your children was ignored?
Do you consider such as good or bad? Do you wish it upon yourself or others?
In your earlier reply it SEEMED as if that part of the post was ingnored.
IIRC the reply given was along the lines of ...your God destroys anything of which he doesn't approve?
I found myself asking........ so then dmf approves of rape, murder, cannablizm, and enslavement? huh? NAW......
...........Thinkin perhaps you didn't see/read that part of the post???????????
OR are you so locked into your views, that rape, murder, cannablizm, and enslavement of Jews and Chirstians is OK???????????
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Originally posted by dmf
Ok I'll tell you, (like You haven't figured it out already) I'm Wiccan.
Now I don't judge religions, I simply say what I see of them. As far as pagan religions, before you judge my religion and dam me to hell, can you tell me when was the last time ANY pagan religion started a useless war? Or persecuted others because they were different? Or tried to totally exterminate an entire race?
I'm at peace, are you?
Ancient Rome, Greece, Persia, the Vikings...etc.. etc.. All started many many wars. Lets see, hmmm..... Genghis Khan did allot of warring upon others too.........
I admit it has been awhile since a Pagan started a useless war.
Wait! that may not be entirely true............... hmmm........ Hitler? Pol Pot?
You don't judge religions???? From your postings in this thread it sure sounds to me like you've judged.
QUESTION!!!
WHO on this board has damed you to hell???? I keep seeing that reference but I have yet to see anyone actually do so?????????????????
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Originally posted by wrag
Ancient Rome, Greece, Persia, the Vikings...etc.. etc.. All started many many wars. Lets see, hmmm..... Genghis Khan did allot of warring upon others too.........
I admit it has been awhile since a Pagan started a useless war.
Wait! that may not be entirely true............... hmmm........ Hitler? Pol Pot?
You don't judge religions???? From your postings in this thread it sure sounds to me like you've judged.
QUESTION!!!
WHO on this board has damed you to hell???? I keep seeing that reference but I have yet to see anyone actually do so?????????????????
Roman empire, was a corrupt govt, not a religion, the ancient Greeks I know nothing at all about. isn't Persia modern day Iran? thats make them muslim anyway so they don't count, and can you tell me what religion Genghis Kahn was, cause I don't thin he had one at all. I'm probably wrong thats why I'm asking. Now I can't believe you actually classified Hitler with the rest of them, Hitler was evil, just plain outright evil. and Pol Pot? He was a Buddhist, hate to tell you this but that one is a recognized religion.
Nobody on this board has damed me to hell (yet) but then it was last night when I said my religion, let them get home from church first, then read who posts what, I'll be amazed if I'm not drawn and quartered by Tuesday evening.
Oh btw, no I haven't judged your religion, I've just simply made my own mind up using this thing called free will.
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Originally posted by wrag
Referenceing ........ The flood and why did it happen. AKA the reasons given in the Bible for why the flood occured.
NOTE: Bible says Giants are offspring of The Fallen Ones and human females...........
NOTE: there were MANY of them!
NOTE: The Giants in the Bible = ............rape, murder, canabalizm, and enslavement of people (hmm would little people fit here?).
NOTE: >>>> Goliath was one.
So do you actually believe there were real Giants in existence say 10,000 years ago?? And Noah's family were the only remaining decendants of Adam? ie 8 humans left?
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i think hitler was a christian, he kept telling the german people that "god was on their side", he also liked dogs and kids.
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Originally posted by Booz
So do you actually believe there were real Giants in existence say 10,000 years ago?? And Noah's family were the only remaining decendants of Adam? ie 8 humans left?
Only 8 humans left? How do you come up with that?
Think you are making allot of assumptions.
Noah and family were the LAST of the Adamic line that had NOT been contaiminated by either The Fallen Ones or the giants.
Perhaps you should read about it before you start making assumptions?
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Originally posted by dmf
Roman empire, was a corrupt govt, not a religion, the ancient Greeks I know nothing at all about. isn't Persia modern day Iran? thats make them muslim anyway so they don't count, and can you tell me what religion Genghis Kahn was, cause I don't thin he had one at all. I'm probably wrong thats why I'm asking. Now I can't believe you actually classified Hitler with the rest of them, Hitler was evil, just plain outright evil. and Pol Pot? He was a Buddhist, hate to tell you this but that one is a recognized religion.
Nobody on this board has damed me to hell (yet) but then it was last night when I said my religion, let them get home from church first, then read who posts what, I'll be amazed if I'm not drawn and quartered by Tuesday evening.
Oh btw, no I haven't judged your religion, I've just simply made my own mind up using this thing called free will.
Acient Persia was NOT Muslim. Pagan by defintion is what?????????????
Is your defintion of Pagans is they are of an unrecognized religion? SORRY That isn't my definition.
As to wicca and the wiccan religion. I find you unusual here. I have been and currently am aquainted with several followers of wicca. All of them, with one exception, have believed there is a Christian/Hebrew God.
You are that exception.
Further they have expressed several different views regarding the Christian/Hebrew God.
Some have said the Christian/Hebrew God is a petty tyrant.
Others have said they chose wicca because they believed the Christian/Hebrew God didn't care about them, or was weak and had no real power over them or this world, or was a minor deity raised up by the Hebrews to a higher then deserved position, and most if not all have said that wicca gave them greater power and control over their lives and over the lives of others.
Some have expressed they follow Lucifer. Who according to every account I can find was created by the Chritian/Hebrew God.
Others have said they follow the Green Man. Others have said they follow this spirit or that spirit.
By all accounts Genghis Khan did have a religion.
Acient Rome did have religions!! Many different religions. It was not just a corrupt government. The augeris were continually consulted. Towards the end some even believed the leader of Acient Rome was a god.
Your not real up on history then?
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Originally posted by john9001
i think hitler was a christian, he kept telling the german people that "god was on their side", he also liked dogs and kids.
Nope. If you read up on it I'm pretty sure you will find he was not. Nor were most of his closest followers.
The Germanic view of Christianty at that time was somewhat unusual if I recall. Seagoon posted about that in another thread somewhere IIRC.
He and his followers were not above using God and claiming to be Christian.
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Originally posted by john9001
i think hitler was a christian, he kept telling the german people that "god was on their side", he also liked dogs and kids.
Have you ever seen or heard of a war where its leaders didnt claim god was on their side?
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Wicca has only been around since the 50s in current form, and the early 20th cent at the earliest, though it apparently tried to glom on to all the old pagan hocus pocus in an effort to justify itself with a history. Heck people follwing the old roman and greek, or even zorastism at least have a history behind their beliefs
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Originally posted by wrag
Only 8 humans left? How do you come up with that?
Think you are making allot of assumptions.
Noah and family were the LAST of the Adamic line
You'll have to tell me what that means in your mind. Were there other humans that were not decended from Adam? I did read it, and that wasn't covered so I was being safe and not making assumptions.
... that had NOT been contaiminated by either The Fallen Ones or the giants.
Were giants real? You never answered.
And who are these fallen ones, who/what fathered their line? Are they not descendents of adam?
Was everyone but noah's family fallen or a giant?
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Originally posted by wrag
Acient Persia was NOT Muslim. Pagan by defintion is what?????????????
Is your defintion of Pagans is they are of an unrecognized religion? SORRY That isn't my definition.
As to wicca and the wiccan religion. I find you unusual here. I have been and currently am aquainted with several followers of wicca. All of them, with one exception, have believed there is a Christian/Hebrew God.
You are that exception.
Further they have expressed several different views regarding the Christian/Hebrew God.
Some have said the Christian/Hebrew God is a petty tyrant.
Others have said they chose wicca because they believed the Christian/Hebrew God didn't care about them, or was weak and had no real power over them or this world, or was a minor deity raised up by the Hebrews to a higher then deserved position, and most if not all have said that wicca gave them greater power and control over their lives and over the lives of others.
Some have expressed they follow Lucifer. Who according to every account I can find was created by the Chritian/Hebrew God.
Others have said they follow the Green Man. Others have said they follow this spirit or that spirit.
By all accounts Genghis Khan did have a religion.
Acient Rome did have religions!! Many different religions. It was not just a corrupt government. The augeris were continually consulted. Towards the end some even believed the leader of Acient Rome was a god.
Your not real up on history then?
Ok what was ancient Persian then? I wasn't there so I don't know.
Tell me where in the US that any Pagan religion is recognized as a valid religion.
Have I once ever said theres no god? No I haven't, I said that your god is not as kind and gentle as you think. when I say your god I'm referring to what you conceive as a god. Not what actually is a god, DO NOT say I am a atheist.
I don't know is he's a petty tyrant or not. I'm not making any claim to that.
I don't follow any Green man or Lucifer either. any body following a green man needs better green to smoke.
I didn't know Genghis Kahn had a religion, what was it?
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the persian religion was zoroastrianism and others which in time have morphed into today's b'hai faith. as with all faiths that aren't Christianity they are faiths based on the worship of the false god. yes it's safe to lump them in the same pile.
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Originally posted by Booz
You'll have to tell me what that means in your mind. Were there other humans that were not decended from Adam? I did read it, and that wasn't covered so I was being safe and not making assumptions.
This is my understanding of.............
I guess it depends on how you read Genesis. Genesis 1 goes from prior day 1 to day 6 where man was created then day 7 where God rested. Genesis 2 start out with the creation of Adam and Eve, you will read later their creation was for the purpose of bringing into the world Jesus, this was done on day 8. If you just read it without someone telling you otherwise, thats how it reads. Thus you have other humans upon the earth prior to the creation of Adam and Eve and their being kicked out of Eden. That's how it reads. Is Genesis 2 a repeat of Genesis 1 or is it a continuation of the story of creation.
Were giants real? You never answered.
And who are these fallen ones, who/what fathered their line? Are they not descendents of adam?
Was everyone but noah's family fallen or a giant? [/QUOTE]
Word is.....................
No everyone was not Noah's family or Fallen or giants.
The Fallen Ones are the angels that followed Lucifer. They did a big NO NO and came to earth without being born of woman. They were after all human females but mainly the females of the Adamic line. They nearly succeeded. The form taken by them is unclear. The word is they will be back and will again seek to create more Giants.
The result of the mating, forced or willing, between The Fallen Ones and human females = Giants aka men of renoun. That renoun is not of the good type.
Were Giants real? Was there a Goliath? Did David actually kill him? What would a being fathered by angels and human females be made of? Strictly flesh and blood? Or a combination of flesh and blood and something else? When that being died what would happen to the body?
A little note here............ Cain was NOT the son of Adam, but Abel was.
That help? Or did it just confuse things?
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Originally posted by dmf
Ok what was ancient Persian then? I wasn't there so I don't know.
Tell me where in the US that any Pagan religion is recognized as a valid religion.
Have I once ever said theres no god? No I haven't, I said that your god is not as kind and gentle as you think. when I say your god I'm referring to what you conceive as a god. Not what actually is a god, DO NOT say I am a atheist.
I don't know is he's a petty tyrant or not. I'm not making any claim to that.
I don't follow any Green man or Lucifer either. any body following a green man needs better green to smoke.
I didn't know Genghis Kahn had a religion, what was it?
You didn't have to be there..............
Read your history. Ancient Persia was basically Pagan. Persia became largely Islamic right around or just prior to 1100 A.D. Before that there was some Christianity there, but parts of it remained loyal to their old gods and dieties until the arrival of Islam. Believe or die, some converted some fought and died. When it was pretty much over Islam had won. Many Christians were allowed to keep their religion but were considered 2nd class citizens. It's all recorded in books if you rather not look it up on the net.
Where have you been????????????? The U.S. Military (or at least the U.S. Army) now recognizes wicca as a valid religion!
Hey!!!!!!!!
I have said at least TWICE now!
The Bible does NOT claim God is kind or gentle.
NEITHER do I ..........OK???? are we CLEAR on that now????????????????????
I'm not a school teacher. Why should you believe what I say for that matter? IMHO you can do just a little lookin around and find all this out. It's on the net soooooooooooooooo............ .. Genghis Khan's religion? Do a look up Genghis Khan and definatly look up the Yassa!
Then if you still wanna play school teacher, return here and tell me what the VERY 1st law of the Yassa is or was.
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Originally posted by wrag
You didn't have to be there..............
Read your history. Ancient Persia was basically Pagan. Persia became largely Islamic right around or just prior to 1100 A.D. Before that there was some Christianity there, but parts of it remained loyal to their old gods and dieties until the arrival of Islam. Believe or die, some converted some fought and died. When it was pretty much over Islam had won. Many Christians were allowed to keep their religion but were considered 2nd class citizens. It's all recorded in books if you rather not look it up on the net.
Where have you been????????????? The U.S. Military (or at least the U.S. Army) now recognizes wicca as a valid religion!
Hey!!!!!!!!
I have said at least TWICE now!
The Bible does NOT claim God is kind or gentle.
NEITHER do I ..........OK???? are we CLEAR on that now????????????????????
I'm not a school teacher. Why should you believe what I say for that matter? IMHO you can do just a little lookin around and find all this out. It's on the net soooooooooooooooo............ .. Genghis Khan's religion? Do a look up Genghis Khan and definatly look up the Yassa!
Then if you still wanna play school teacher, return here and tell me what the VERY 1st law of the Yassa is or was.
Sorry I don't read about ancient Persia, I'll never go there and I really don't care about them at all. But thanks for the info I might have learned something here
As far as the military Ironically enough even though my ex is in the navy I'm not in the habit of keeping tabs on their religious practices, since I can't even get on base let alone do I care to try to. Last time I heard anything interesting about the local military here Pres Clinton was letting them say they were gay and get away with it.
(The Bible does NOT claim God is kind or gentle.) A lot of Christians do, the ones banging on my apt door always do, but I found that a cross hanging upside down on the door keeps them away .
I'm not a school teacher either, and I don't claim to be one. And I'm not going oto play school house.
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lol, dmf is a tard.
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Originally posted by BOOMHOWR
lol, dmf is a tard.
tardette?
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Originally posted by storch
tardette?
Ah, I stand corrected. Tardette is correct.
Hah, I just seen her sig too. Should change it to "Don't stare at my posts. It makes you look stupid."
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Be very careful labeling dmf a tard (tardette). After all, we christians were labelled much, much worse by the prevailing authorities immediately after Christ died (and rose). In fact, I was raised in the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) - a christian sect. Take a look at what WE were called by England. (Hint: Pennsylvania was the result.) Is she correct in her beliefs? I don't know. My current (Methodist) pastor claims he is in sales. It is up to the management to determine who gets into heaven. Any of you in management? I thought not.
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I'm not labling anyone anything merely offering gender clarification. :D
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"tardette" is definitely labelling someone. By the way, you in managment? Some of you posts suggest you believe so. :D
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I'm in management...
bow down!
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I'm a tyrant I own the company.
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I'm a bum, I stole this internet access. If she would avoid posting crap she wouldn't get labeled. Problem solved.
Now, I have to go chase down my house. Damn wind blew it away.
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Those of you who want me to bow down, or state you're in management, please return to the first page and sign up for the blasphemy bit - you're already there. Sorry you want to label her boomhowr, and also sorry your house got blown away.
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Originally posted by dhaus
Those of you who want me to bow down, or state you're in management, please return to the first page and sign up for the blasphemy bit - you're already there. Sorry you want to label her boomhowr, and also sorry your house got blown away.
yeah, now I'll have to go wait by the local best buy and hope somebody throws the box away for their big screen tv.
And by the way, I did speak the blasphemy. And she's still a tardette.
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Originally posted by BOOMHOWR
And she's still a tardette.
I don't agree with her but there's no call for the labeling and name calling like this. It demeans you.
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Oh please, calling someone a tard is hardly labeling anyone. And for what its worth, I don't see "tard" as being offensive or a label for that matter.
Hell, some people should wear it with pride. Dlamb, and all the other great tards. She's just a questionable tard.
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tardlingette?
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Originally posted by storch
tardlingette?
That has a nice ring to it, i'll let the guy who's name is not important enough for me to remember that posted above me to decide which one fits better.
-edit- scrolled up after I posted. Dhaus is his name -edit-
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Originally posted by BOOMHOWR
I'm a bum, I stole this internet access. If she would avoid posting crap she wouldn't get labeled. Problem solved.
Now, I have to go chase down my house. Damn wind blew it away.
I'm posting crap? read over your posts and look for any interesting content.
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Originally posted by FLS
You think Communist Party members were church members?
Religion serves a need, isn't that why every society developed a religion?
Isn't communism like a religion for some people?
Isn't liberalism like a religion for some people?
Irrational beliefs taken on faith and imposed on other people, isn't that you Silat? :D
You think Communist Party members were church members?
<>
Religion serves a need, isn't that why every society developed a religion?
<>
Isn't communism like a religion for some people?
<>
Isn't liberalism like a religion for some people?
<Libs and Neocons can and do belong to churches. Jew ,Christian or otherwise>>
Irrational beliefs taken on faith and imposed on other people, isn't that you Silat? :D
<>
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Originally posted by Silat
You think Communist Party members were church members?
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Religion serves a need, isn't that why every society developed a religion?
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Isn't communism like a religion for some people?
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Isn't liberalism like a religion for some people?
<Libs and Neocons can and do belong to churches. Jew ,Christian or otherwise>>
Irrational beliefs taken on faith and imposed on other people, isn't that you Silat? :D
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Being like a religion doesn't mean being a religion. That's why it says "like".
So you agree your liberalism is an irrational belief taken on faith but you disagree that you in any way impose it on people? :D
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To be a Christian is, in a nutshell, to follow the teachings of Christ. Those who call themselves Christians but do not follow the teachings of Jesus are liars. Attributing the evil actions of these liars to true Christians or the teachings of Jesus is either ignorant or dishonest.
Jesus said that his followers will be known by their "fruit" or "produce." If you read up on what Jesus actually taught, it will become immediately apparent that the Crusaders, the Iquisitors, and the Puritans (at least the notorious Puritans) were not Christians as they claimed, for they did not follow the teachings of Jesus. Attributing the works of these false men to Jesus or his followers is, again, wrong.
No one following the teachings of Jesus made this world a worse place in doing so. And no one making this world a worse place was following the teachings of Jesus when he did it.
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I think benny pretty much summed it up. I think a lot of the hate we see here for christians is a result of so called christians themselves not acting like.... well... christians.
I don't think any religion should be based on arrogance and human personalities.
lazs
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Originally posted by dmf
I'm posting crap? read over your posts and look for any interesting content.
Yeah, you were posting crap. And I was posting crap to point out your crap.
I know I post crap. Acceptance is the first step...
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Originally posted by BOOMHOWR
Yeah, you were posting crap. And I was posting crap to point out your crap.
I know I post crap. Acceptance is the first step...
So I should take it that you've accepted the fact that your stuff is crap, and my crap is stuff?
Leave me alone or I'll turn you into a toad :D
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Originally posted by dmf
So I should take it that you've accepted the fact that your stuff is crap, and my crap is stuff?
Leave me alone or I'll turn you into a toad :D
I have accepted that. Have you?
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Originally posted by BOOMHOWR
I have accepted that. Have you?
Ok I accept the fact that U post crap:D
But you people have your beliefs, and conceptions, and we have ours,
If you wanna think god loves everybody, go for it. I'll stay the way I am, and keep giving thanks to Mother Earth.
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Originally posted by dmf
Ok I accept the fact that U post crap:D
But you people have your beliefs, and conceptions, and we have ours,
If you wanna think god loves everybody, go for it. I'll stay the way I am, and keep giving thanks to Mother Earth.
Dmf,
May I offer an input?
To begin with, most of us don't particularly want advice, especially about religion. Religion is something very personal. No one can know how we really feel about it. It is, as I mentioned, very personal. If I were to eat an orange you wouldn't have a clue as to what it tasted like to me. It is my experience to taste that orange. It is the same with my personal beliefs about God and life. It is the same with your beliefs about an all mighty and life. We can all put labels on it if we are so inclined but it falls back to the same thing. It is personal.
There has been a lot of talk about the history of religions and what different peoples believed or were thought to believe. History is important in that it gives us something to measure things by. There is a starting point for everything. Religion is no different. We need a point of reference. I highly reccomend you look into historical facts. They, in themselves, can be facinating reading. One can learn all sorts of things about why we do what we do today from what was done centuries ago.
I believe in Jesus Christ and I believe he is the reason for my salvation from eternal death. I can't force anyone, you included, to believe this. I can only present the facts as I personaly have experienced them and give everyone and you the oportunity to see things as I see them. To be a true Christian is to try to spread the word of Jesus Christ. One can live like a Christian but spreading the word of salvation is also part of it.
There is a lot of talk about not infringing on one's rights to believe as they wish and I support this belief. That doesn't change the fact that I may wish to try to enlighten my fellow man on what I believe is the true path to happiness here and beyond. I won't make a pest of myself on the matter, it's not my style, but I will on occasion mention what I spoke of.
There are preconceptions about every walk of life. People love to put labels on others. It is a human trait.
Live the good life, live the right life, live to enhance your life experience and hopefully the life experience of others and be your own person.
I have rambled enough.
Mark
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I don't believe in God, at least not as described by any religion known to me. I consider myself an agnostic. However, I cannot dismiss the possibility that God may exist; one cannot prove a negative. So I will not go out of my way to knowingly offend a God, just like I wouldn't go out of my way to break the law just for the hell of it even if I know the chance of getting caught is close to negligible. It would be an unnecessary risk and just stupid.
Does that make sense?
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some dude told me jesus has some brothers & sisters, so maybe i m g0d's great great...great great nephew:aok:aok
(http://www.hmcwest.com/images/part_tagF.gif)
Oh noes, what if maybe ossamma bin laddenn is!!!:O:O:O:noid:noid:noid:noid
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Originally posted by Viking
I don't believe in God, at least not as described by any religion known to me. I consider myself an agnostic. However, I cannot dismiss the possibility that God may exist; one cannot prove a negative. So I will not go out of my way to knowingly offend a God, just like I wouldn't go out of my way to break the law just for the hell of it even if I know the chance of getting caught is close to negligible. It would be an unnecessary risk and just stupid.
Does that make sense?
Well said.
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viking.. yes, that is very well put... As to why anyone would do it?
you would only do it if you had a grudge against people that believed in god or you were the type of person that enjoyed making fun of others when they thought there was an audience who agreed or.. simply was out of sight...
Or.. you would if you were brainwashed into thinking that every bad thing in the world was the result of some religion or the other or.... you were just jealous or... you thought it made you look modern and edgy..
In any case... to go out of your way to bash religion is pretty childish and wussy and there really are no good motives.
lazs
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Originally posted by Mark Luper
Dmf,
May I offer an input?
To begin with, most of us don't particularly want advice, especially about religion. Religion is something very personal. No one can know how we really feel about it. It is, as I mentioned, very personal. If I were to eat an orange you wouldn't have a clue as to what it tasted like to me. It is my experience to taste that orange. It is the same with my personal beliefs about God and life. It is the same with your beliefs about an all mighty and life. We can all put labels on it if we are so inclined but it falls back to the same thing. It is personal.
There has been a lot of talk about the history of religions and what different peoples believed or were thought to believe. History is important in that it gives us something to measure things by. There is a starting point for everything. Religion is no different. We need a point of reference. I highly reccomend you look into historical facts. They, in themselves, can be facinating reading. One can learn all sorts of things about why we do what we do today from what was done centuries ago.
I believe in Jesus Christ and I believe he is the reason for my salvation from eternal death. I can't force anyone, you included, to believe this. I can only present the facts as I personaly have experienced them and give everyone and you the oportunity to see things as I see them. To be a true Christian is to try to spread the word of Jesus Christ. One can live like a Christian but spreading the word of salvation is also part of it.
There is a lot of talk about not infringing on one's rights to believe as they wish and I support this belief. That doesn't change the fact that I may wish to try to enlighten my fellow man on what I believe is the true path to happiness here and beyond. I won't make a pest of myself on the matter, it's not my style, but I will on occasion mention what I spoke of.
There are preconceptions about every walk of life. People love to put labels on others. It is a human trait.
Live the good life, live the right life, live to enhance your life experience and hopefully the life experience of others and be your own person.
I have rambled enough.
Mark
Your input is noted and accepted, thank you for making some sense.
I'm not trying to give anybody advice on religion, personally I don't care if somebody worships a stop sign or a pile of trash on Wednesday evening, the only point I'm trying to make is that the conception that everybody has of god is a peace loving, turn the other cheek god. God is neither a total peace loving god or a total tyrant. God is somewhere in between the two. The first commandment says that we can NOT have any gods before him, that leads me to believe that just maybe there could be more than one god.
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I thought Jesus was a mexican boy born in the back of a truck on the 4th of July.
Wow, talk about a mind-blow.
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Originally posted by BOOMHOWR
I thought Jesus was a mexican boy born in the back of a truck on the 4th of July.
Wow, talk about a mind-blow.
was it a small explosion?
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Originally posted by dmf
Your input is noted and accepted, thank you for making some sense.
I'm not trying to give anybody advice on religion, personally I don't care if somebody worships a stop sign or a pile of trash on Wednesday evening, the only point I'm trying to make is that the conception that everybody has of god is a peace loving, turn the other cheek god. God is neither a total peace loving god or a total tyrant. God is somewhere in between the two. The first commandment says that we can NOT have any gods before him, that leads me to believe that just maybe there could be more than one god.
I believe:
There is only one God. The gods God spoke of were idols, pagan gods that were worshiped in that day in time.
God is All knowing and All loving. This is not to imply that he will not punish or allow bad things to happen to us. You love your children and though you love them you will punish them to teach them and you may allow them to make a mistake that will hurt them a little bit to give them some life experience. Multiply that love you feel for your children many more times than is imaginable and you may get an inkling of God's love for us, his children.
God wishes us to worship him of our own choice not because he can make us want to worship him. In giving us choice he doesn't continualy interfere with our lives. Right or wrong, he allows us to make our own decisions.
We don't have anything within our grasp of understanding that can even begin to let us see what God really is. We have to take it in total faith.
Mark
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Wow. This thread is still going strong, eh?
Anyone change their minds yet, on either side? :D
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Originally posted by storch
was it a small explosion?
Flash in the pan :)
culero
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Originally posted by culero
Flash in the pan :)
culero
Yeah, fortunately no one was injured in said mind blow. I still think Jesus is a mexican boy though.
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Originally posted by BOOMHOWR
Yeah, fortunately no one was injured in said mind blow. I still think Jesus is a mexican boy though.
I happen to know Jesus personally. His friends call him Chuy. He's an adult.
He and his wife did just have a boy, but the boy's name is Oscar.
culero
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Originally posted by culero
I happen to know Jesus personally. His friends call him Chuy. He's an adult.
He and his wife did just have a boy, but the boy's name is Oscar.
culero
I know jesus also, he's married to maria, they just had son also, but his name is guadalupe.
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Originally posted by culero
I happen to know Jesus personally. His friends call him Chuy. He's an adult.
He and his wife did just have a boy, but the boy's name is Oscar.
culero
Wow, great news! Hopefully it wasn't in the back of a pickup truck. I can't keep up with names very well.
p.s. dmf still hasn't answered my question.
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Originally posted by Mark Luper
I believe:
This is not to imply that he will not punish or allow bad things to happen to us. You love your children and though you love them you will punish them to teach them and you may allow them to make a mistake that will hurt them a little bit to give them some life experience. Multiply that love you feel for your children many more times than is imaginable and you may get an inkling of God's love for us, his children.
Mark
just that statement alone, makes me believe that you probably have more of an idea of what the point I've been trying to make than anybody else around here.