Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Simaril on December 26, 2006, 05:11:08 PM
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OK, the horse has been beaten...but things are getting out of hand again.
I admit I'm disappointed, because my brother came up for the holidays and we all wanted to play AH together -- my brother, my son, and me. But the sides were so stinking imbalanced tonite that we counldnt find anywhere to play, even if we had switched sides.
LW Blue Bish:Knight:Rook Total 77:61:83 % 35:28:38 in flight 55:31:68 (Knights couldnt get into air without vulching or long flights to hordes) ENY ZERO for everyone!
LW Orange Total 64:66:61 % 34:35:32 in flight 49:57:52 (We could have flown there, but for us vox doesnt work in LW Orange and no one from HTC or ISP can figure out why) ENY ZERO for everyone!
MW Total 2:9:14 % 8:36:54 in flight 1:7:13
EW Total 7:8:8 % 30:35:35 in flight 4:7:4
Now this is NOT a "play my way" post. Even if you allow that we should have been able to play in Orange, were it not for whatever electronic demons have possessed the vox system, its clear that there is so much imbalance that most arenas have the choice of A) Hording B) Being Horded or C) playing essentially alone. (The matter of EW/MW consistently failing to reach critical mass is a whole other issue...I wonder how many would be happy playing there if there only were enough in the arena when they logged on!)
Nor is it a "balance the numbers perfectly" post. Real life wont ever balance perfectly, and the game shouldn't try to either. BUT it should be near enough balanced that any country can take off and have fun -- without being a horde busting ace. (BTW I was disappointed to see how many of the horde busting aces...including some BKs..were flying for the hording side.)
By the simple measure of "everybody having fun", the system is failing.
HT, please consider reinstating the per country cap. All I wanted was to have fun with my family, with the rare chance for all of us to fly together. We couldnt do that because there was absolutely no place or country to fly at our skill level.
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I've never been a big fan of the ENY limter in principle. But, one flaw I have recognized is the fact numbers can be pretty lopsided so long as two countries have high numbers without any limitation on them. For example, 100 Knights; 100 Rooks; 50 Bish. The only time it really kicks in is if only one country has the high numbers. Another anomoly is if there's 110 Knights; 100 Rooks and 50 Bish, the Knights would have a rather large penalty and the Rooks a very low one or none at all even though they only have 10 less people and still a huge margin over the low country.
Also, all planes' values start at 5 ENY, yet the limiter starts at 0 and it takes quite a big imbalance to reach 5.0 where there is any effect. In my opinion, if the limiter has reached a point where it kicks in, it should start at 5.0. Anything less is meaningless...
Zazen
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My suggestions again:
1) Don't limit planes. Push ENY Perkies up as number imbalance changes. If Rooks have 30 more players than Bish, a spit 14 is gonna cost 15 perkies. Pretty soon Rooks are flying P38-J's against Bish Spit 14's and it will all even out.
2) Include EW and MW as a feature like tank town or fighter town in our current maps. Few people will log on to EW when there are just 7 people there. But if you have 250 people in a LW, you'll find a couple of dozen will play Early War for a while.
3) Extra spawn points become available when a county's numbers are low. These spawn points begin 2 levels behind the battle line so they will have resources and allow the low-number country the chance to attack with troops.
I really like this one, because the low-number country gets some interesting options. to really screw up a big-numbers country.
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Agreed. Bring a meaningful ENY into the game. Squads dont seem to be able to manage themselves to keep sides balanced so lets get HTC to force side balancing on them.
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even if sides say are even 50 50 50, the way the arenas have been going, like LW Blue, Knits fighting both fronts, bish rook maybe 5 10 guys fighting each other. the rest all on knits. so even with =#s the sides are imbalanced whenthey dont fight evenly. all day today both maps, Knit been fighting aroun 100 total enemy with about 45 on =s no fun map after map after map.
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I think the idea of letting the low number country get the advantage of deeper spawn points is a good idea. It will allow for some attack advantages, as well as some defense that would not be available when the high number country is knocking out all the VHs and ord all over the FEBA.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Agreed. Bring a meaningful ENY into the game. Squads dont seem to be able to manage themselves to keep sides balanced so lets get HTC to force side balancing on them.
now since when were squads given a sash and told thier job was to pay 15$ a month to fix other peoples problems. usinth they're own time. change countries yourselves, dont ask peole to do stuff for the minority. surely the 'go it alone' guys should switch, as it is easier forlots of single guys to move, than large squads.
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But the sides were so stinking imbalanced tonite that we counldnt find anywhere to play, even if we had switched sides.
Wow, in my years of playing I have never been unable to find a fight due to being outnumbered. That seems like an oxymoron, really. The more you are outnumbered... the more targets there are, right?
Heck, I prefer my side to be outnumbered.
I don't much care about hordes. There is almost always somewhere one can up and go mix it up w/ the hordes. You can usually get a kill or 5 before the down-looking vulch monkeys even know you are there... that never ceases to amuse me.
Then there's the last second, dive-through-the-horde-and-kill-the-goon thrill. Wheeeeeee! Bahahahahaha!
It's nice to be able to look at the map and find plenty of full enemy dar bars to choose from. I don't have a lot of time to spend searching for a fight.
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I was in MW a few night back and two squads were playing rook and numbered 18. The bish numbered 4 and the nits numbered 2. Guess what team the rooks were bashing :rolleyes:
The evening would have been alot more enjoyable had one squad changed over. As it was I had to listen to these prepube rooktards boast about capturing undefended fields. Geeks like that really drive home the need to force side balancing. Squads have a duty to help the game along, not hurt it. Its in the best interest of squads to help balance the game, not knock it off its axis.
My proposal: Limit squads to ten players each and do not allow affiliation between squads.
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Personally id like to see the two LW arenas put back together.
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I like being outnumbered some too.
There comes point when it stops being fun, though. We played a couple hours, and we tried a lot of combinations. I died my share upping from a nearly capped base. I flew in from the next base, and got swarmed. I tried intercepting the stream of attackers, 1 v however many came...and got to fight some. But, after a kill, either I got jumped by an ace (Why are "big names" attacking against the outnumbered side? For the challenge?), or I'd get jumped by numbers of weaker ones.
I took a lot on the chin, and well, it stopped being fun.
When I said "find a fight", I meant "find a place to have fun." I dont mind dying, but if there isnt a time when I get to give some back there isnt much joy in it.
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I think the "queue" should be put back in. Along with the new capture system ( must capture a percentage of BOTH opposing countries) It will force more even numbers, and slow the "gang up on one country". Also this set-up should be put into ALL arenas to give it a far shake. If it only goes into one arena, everyone will avoid that arena like they did when "OrangeLW" had the ordered base capture system in test.
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After a lengthy and long winded crusade in the name of fun, fair, and balanced gameplay, I have only this to say.
"Side Balancing" is just a term on the Country Status page of the clipboard. If HT wanted equal numbers, we'd have them.
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Why not just give the chesspiece with lower numbers som puffy ack help at random places on their turf or along their border, and/or turn down ack lethality on the chesspiece(s) that has tons of players.?
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Originally posted by Laurie
surely the 'go it alone' guys should switch, as it is easier forlots of single guys to move, than large squads.
A) Lots of us single fighters have been jumping around. I have no clue as to which country I'm flying for in any given arena. I know we're moving, because I see the same names in the same arenas and they, like me, are in different countries in the said arenas.**
2)Co-ordinating the single flyer's is harder than co-ordinating the squad. I should point out that when I said "Lots of us", I meant somewhere in the ballpark of "10". Trying to herd the single flyer's is like cat herding.
But some of us are at least trying. Now, let the squads try and help out some.
**send $9.99 for the special "TexInVa Decoder Ring"
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
After a lengthy and long winded crusade in the name of fun, fair, and balanced gameplay, I have only this to say.
"Side Balancing" is just a term on the Country Status page of the clipboard. If HT wanted equal numbers, we'd have them.
Pointed, but honest. Can't argue with that.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
"Side Balancing" is just a term on the Country Status page of the clipboard. If HT wanted equal numbers, we'd have them.
yes, and no....
I don't think he's given up on it, nor do I think that exactly evenly numbered sides are his (or anyone's) goal. There's more to making the game fun than simply having 100 v 100 v 99 in the arenas, the gamerz will find a way to play without risking an actual "fair fight" somehow, no matter what.
You saw the apoplexy caused, heard the screams of anguish, read the false threats made by "paying customers/CEOs" when he experimented with balancing measures. The incessant whiners made their point and got the balancing measures stopped, they are also making the point crystal clear that their idea of fun is being on the side with 20 players who are attacking the side with 2 players, it is not even the subject of debate, we've all seen it. I liked the blue line best of all taken as a single measure, but in my opinion the best solution is a combination of many smaller steps taken as a whole. Limit sorties with the tower-queue, limit plane choice, cut fuel/ord/ammo capacity, make the underpopulated team's fields indestructible...etc. Do it all at once and we can have an fair fight even with lopsided numbers.
The question does remain though, what will the next step be, and when will it be implemented? IMO "something" has to be done, because leaving the choice of how to run the assylum in the hands of "the cutomers" is clearly a path to ruin.
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Originally posted by Simaril
I like being outnumbered some too.
There comes point when it stops being fun, though. We played a couple hours, and we tried a lot of combinations. I died my share upping from a nearly capped base. I flew in from the next base, and got swarmed. I tried intercepting the stream of attackers, 1 v however many came...and got to fight some. But, after a kill, either I got jumped by an ace (Why are "big names" attacking against the outnumbered side? For the challenge?), or I'd get jumped by numbers of weaker ones.
I took a lot on the chin, and well, it stopped being fun.
When I said "find a fight", I meant "find a place to have fun." I dont mind dying, but if there isnt a time when I get to give some back there isnt much joy in it.
Agreed, Sim. No chance, no point.
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Originally posted by whels
even if sides say are even 50 50 50, the way the arenas have been going, like LW Blue, Knits fighting both fronts, bish rook maybe 5 10 guys fighting each other. the rest all on knits. so even with =#s the sides are imbalanced whenthey dont fight evenly. all day today both maps, Knit been fighting aroun 100 total enemy with about 45 on =s no fun map after map after map.
Whels, I hate this more than anything. I've noticed it while going as a Rook. I completely understand your frustration.
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Originally posted by Killjoy2
flying P38-J's against Bish Spit 14's and it will all even out.
That wouldn't be very fair to the SP14's though would it? :D
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Whels, I hate this more than anything. I've noticed it while going as a Rook. I completely understand your frustration.
I also have noticed the Rooks and Bishops ganging the Knights on a regular basis. Is there something going on? I can't believe that so many people would be interested in spoiling the game for one side.
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Originally posted by scottydawg
I also have noticed the Rooks and Bishops ganging the Knights on a regular basis. Is there something going on? I can't believe that so many people would be interested in spoiling the game for one side.
That's not how it's seen from the other side, and that's the problem.
People want easy mode, and 16 guys vulching is very easy, and nobody cares if you're having fun or not except for, theoretically, HTC.
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Side balancing and ganging have been issues as long as there have been 3 countries. In the days of Air Warrior I the BZ and the CZ were always ganging on the AZ. We (AZ) used to always joke about our target rich environments. In the end I think it just made all the AZ better pilots. We could effectively defend or attack with inferior numbrs and almost always win.
For almost 2 years in AH I the Rooks and the Knights were always ganging on the Bish. I'd send out messages on Ch. 200; Why are you dweebs HELPING the other dweebs WIN? I always wondered why numbers didn't equalize over time but then realized that all the noobs, frustrated by their dillema as a Bish would switch countries for safety's sake. That meant that now we, as Bish were mostly vets fighting large numbers of noobs. Fair enough for me.
About a year ago Bish and Knights were contantly ganging Rooks. Our numbers were up. I'd look around me and see more noobs than before. Were these the guys I wanted to trust my wing to? I found myself on country channel pleading; Why are we HELPING those other dweebs WIN? The noobs didn't know any better. They stuck together in gangs for safety oblivious to the larger strategies involved.
Now the Bish and Rooks are ganging Knights. Bish have gained more numbers. Bish have a lot of noobs. Thankfully they seem to better understand the objectives of winning the war, not giving it away. Now I'm being constantly shot down by veteran aces and an occasional noob in a furball.
Add squads (and missions) to this. Yesterday I decided to join a mission for a change. We took off with ~20 flights of B-26's and a dozen P-51's. We totally flattened 2 enemy bases. Now I guess joining a mission is joining the hoard. I do admit it was sort of fun to be a part of watching the uncoordinated enemy try to figure out how/if they dared to attack us.
The point is this. It's always been there, will probably always be there, and will likely (no, surely) change over time (who's the underdog). All you can do is roll with it and hope it makes you better along the way.
and have fun.
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I understand what you're saying, Eagle, but there is a point where normal imbalance becomes dysfunctional.
It seems to me that when the lowest side throws in the towel, and switches to the high side just to have SOME fun -- well, the imbalanced situation has become self perpetuating.
And if imbalance ---> NO fun for the low side ----> low siders log off or switch countries ---> more imbalance....
well, the cycle isn't called "vicious" for nothing. And isn't that what's already happening?
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IMO what we have now is the best we have ever had cos it does not matter if the sides are unbalanced or not.
Two sides are not rolling over the other one all night and (over time)conflict is spread across the three sides even when there is imbalance.
Of course it is doubtful that the side with the smallest population will not win the reset............
I see far more one sided conflicts due to local imbalance in numbers than there are re arena imbalance. Further even that changes from time to time swinging one way or the other even when there is arena wide imbalance.
Eny system has never worked IMO (IE it never redistributed players to any significant extent) it did provide the players of the smaller populated country with an "edge".............
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Originally posted by Yeager
I was in MW a few night back and two squads were playing rook and numbered 18. The bish numbered 4 and the nits numbered 2. Guess what team the rooks were bashing :rolleyes:
The evening would have been alot more enjoyable had one squad changed over. As it was I had to listen to these prepube rooktards boast about capturing undefended fields. Geeks like that really drive home the need to force side balancing. Squads have a duty to help the game along, not hurt it. Its in the best interest of squads to help balance the game, not knock it off its axis.
My proposal: Limit squads to ten players each and do not allow affiliation between squads. [/QUOTE
so then what if those squadies still all fly together. they just don,t have a squad name hangin over their heads?
squads aren,t the problem here.
whiners are the problem here.
this game will never be perfect.
these complaints are gettin reeeeeal old!!!!
how are you gonna stop people from flyin together???
thats the main reason alot of guys fly in here!!!!
stop affiliation between wings???
what you gonna do?---say --you guys can,t hang around together????
brilliant!!!!
patiently awaiting another brilliant comment,
Boner
official "member" of the AH bbs.
public relations officer for Boner
not alot of guys in the mw arena???? thats a real shocker!!!!!
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Well since it's not the games fault... but the users.. maybe some will read this and even up. :rofl
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official "member" of the AH bbs.
public relations officer for Boner
shocker!!!!! [/B]
Now that's orginal! :aok
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Yesterday I decided to join a mission for a change. We took off with ~20 flights of B-26's and a dozen P-51's. We totally flattened 2 enemy bases. Now I guess joining a mission is joining the hoard. I do admit it was sort of fun to be a part of watching the uncoordinated enemy try to figure out how/if they dared to attack us.
That was cool to watch. A squaddie warned me you guys were on the way and your alt so I grabbed like heck and found myself to be THE lone plane above about 60 B24's and a dozen or so mustangs. It was a cool sight! I don't know about coordinated.. heck I don't know about defense... you guys rolled over everything. I managed to land 7 kills but it did nothing to slow the assault. Still, was cool to see that big formation lumbering towards me. By the time the 24's arrived on target all the stangs were well below them so I had freee shots at buffs as they made their runs. I didn't have enough bullets to go around and ended up watching helplessly as you took the base. It's great to see organization like that. i don't consider that a horde, FWIW. Fun stuff!
Steve
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
That was cool to watch. A squaddie warned me you guys were on the way and your alt so I grabbed like heck and found myself to be THE lone plane above about 60 B24's and a dozen or so mustangs. It was a cool sight! I don't know about coordinated.. heck I don't know about defense... you guys rolled over everything. I managed to land 7 kills but it did nothing to slow the assault. Still, was cool to see that big formation lumbering towards me. By the time the 24's arrived on target all the stangs were well below them so I had freee shots at buffs as they made their runs. I didn't have enough bullets to go around and ended up watching helplessly as you took the base. It's great to see organization like that. i don't consider that a horde, FWIW. Fun stuff!
Steve
That was a different mission last night. We did the same thing on the other side of the map during the day with B-26's.
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I'm betting well soon see the return of designated base capture and numbers balancing.
That said we'll have no one to blame but ourselves.
Flame away but thats how i see it.
Bronk
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ok all lets be honest about this problem. squads did not create this mess. peaple pay to play this game so telling them who to fly with is ridiculous to even think about. so lets tell the honest truth here, when the arena's was split it created a whole bunch of problems that with each "fix" keeps getting worse. i have also seen many of those that say they are side switchers, but in reality they are on the side with the largest number of players. so lets just admit that the multiple arena's didnt work go back to the big MA and start having fun again. and for the 10 or 15 guys that like the EW and MW keep em for them.
let the super flaming begin.
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Originally posted by belethch
ok all lets be honest about this problem. squads did not create this mess. peaple pay to play this game so telling them who to fly with is ridiculous to even think about. so lets tell the honest truth here, when the arena's was split it created a whole bunch of problems that with each "fix" keeps getting worse. i have also seen many of those that say they are side switchers, but in reality they are on the side with the largest number of players. so lets just admit that the multiple arena's didnt work go back to the big MA and start having fun again. and for the 10 or 15 guys that like the EW and MW keep em for them.
let the super flaming begin.
Umm no, there was a numbers issue before the arena split.
Rationalize it all you want but it was there.
Bronk
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but only on sunday nights, rooks had numbers, monday nights bish had numbers, then thursday nights, knights had numbers. it was no where like this.
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At least bring back ENY.
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Bronk is right...................
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Originally posted by belethch
but only on sunday nights, rooks had numbers, monday nights bish had numbers, then thursday nights, knights had numbers. it was no where like this.
Like I said rationalize it all you want. It was still there.
Bronk
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Originally posted by belethch
ok all lets be honest about this problem. squads did not create this mess. peaple pay to play this game so telling them who to fly with is ridiculous to even think about. so lets tell the honest truth here, when the arena's was split it created a whole bunch of problems that with each "fix" keeps getting worse. i have also seen many of those that say they are side switchers, but in reality they are on the side with the largest number of players. so lets just admit that the multiple arena's didnt work go back to the big MA and start having fun again. and for the 10 or 15 guys that like the EW and MW keep em for them.
let the super flaming begin.
Squads DID create the mess, by not rotating. In the old MA days the country with the lowest numbers had the same numbers for about 5-6 months.
I have now pretty much been a Rook for almost 5 years, BUT I have lost friends in Rookland because I now switch countries. The choice is theirs, if they want the baggage of "hating the side-switcher Karaya", they can have it. Life is too short for me, to have a grudge.
Beleth, you've seen typing on Green, so there are a few of us who back up what they say.
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same old argument being re-hashed by the same old dozen or so guys!!!
never really hear anyone in the arenas complaining about this stuff!!
only complaints i hear are in here. by the same guys,
over and over and over and over!!!:furious :furious :furious
WOW!!
Boner
official "member" of the AH BBs
public relations officer for Boner
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Originally posted by 1Boner
same old argument being re-hashed by the same old dozen or so guys!!!
never really hear anyone in the arenas complaining about this stuff!!
only complaints i hear are in here. by the same guys,
over and over and over and over!!!:furious :furious :furious
WOW!!
Boner
official "member" of the AH BBs
public relations officer for Boner
Says the numbers guy.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
Says the numbers guy.
Bronk
numbers guy??
wish i woulda gradgiated gramma skool---i might understand that.:huh
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Originally posted by 1Boner
numbers guy??
One of those who thinks a 20v2 is fun...for either side.
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Originally posted by Edbert
One of those who thinks a 20v2 is fun...for either side.
Probably wouldn't bother him so much if it weren't true.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Edbert
One of those who thinks a 20v2 is fun...for either side.
i see. thanks edbert!!
as usual most of the whiners in here assume they know how others think:confused:
again thanks for the clarification edbert.:D
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Originally posted by Bronk
Probably wouldn't bother him so much if it weren't true.
Bronk
bother me???
there you go assuming again!!!:aok
absolutely amazing!!!
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for some i think it's all they've known. they enjoyed ganging and found that AH fully allowed this so they stayed. they see no reason to switch or move their squad, because they pay $15/month to gang....anyone who wants otherwise is a whiner to these people because they threaten their gangings and easy kills. some will say they want a challenge, but not enough to change sides. like i've always said, it's HTC's game. i know some in here like to play the whiner card, i would rather discuss the issue and ignore the people who would rather not, as they really have nothing to contribute it seems.
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Originally posted by pluck
for some i think it's all they've known. they enjoyed ganging and found that AH fully allowed this so they stayed. they see no reason to switch or move their squad, because they pay $15/month to gang....anyone who wants otherwise is a whiner to these people because they threaten their gangings and easy kills. some will say they want a challenge, but not enough to change sides. like i've always said, it's HTC's game. i know some in here like to play the whiner card, i would rather discuss the issue and ignore the people who would rather not, as they really have nothing to contribute it seems.
Yep.
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Originally posted by pluck
for some i think it's all they've known. they enjoyed ganging and found that AH fully allowed this so they stayed. they see no reason to switch or move their squad, because they pay $15/month to gang....anyone who wants otherwise is a whiner to these people because they threaten their gangings and easy kills. some will say they want a challenge, but not enough to change sides. like i've always said, it's HTC's game. i know some in here like to play the whiner card, i would rather discuss the issue and ignore the people who would rather not, as they really have nothing to contribute it seems.
I have just left the arenas and I'm a knight in the ewa, which was the lowest numbered country and found it dead, so I switched to lwa-blue and switched to rooks for the same reason and found that the rooks had become just like the bishops.
Before all of this swapping BS started, I could tell which country I was flying for by what was being said over the vox (or not, in the case of the bishops). After bouncing from country to country for the past week, I've decided that I don't think I like this game anymore.
I'm tired of not knowing whom I have watching my back, nor do I know who it is I'm helping out. Most of the other players are starting to "blur" into each other, if that makes sense. Seems to me that the same people are shooting me down and all of the countrymen I'm up with all have numbers for names. This is the lowest I've scored in a god awful long time, and I don't think I really give a damn anymore.
Then I come in here and hear the same old elitist "it's someone else's fault" and stupid generalizations and assumptions. Take that quote above. Pluck says "i would rather discuss the issue and ignore the people who would rather not, as they really have nothing to contribute it seems." Not once does he "contribute" in that quote, he's saying absolutely nothing. I thank my higher power that I don't work for the post office.
Originally posted by belethch
ok all lets be honest about this problem. squads did not create this mess. peaple pay to play this game so telling them who to fly with is ridiculous to even think about. so lets tell the honest truth here, when the arena's was split it created a whole bunch of problems that with each "fix" keeps getting worse. i have also seen many of those that say they are side switchers, but in reality they are on the side with the largest number of players. so lets just admit that the multiple arena's didnt work go back to the big MA and start having fun again. and for the 10 or 15 guys that like the EW and MW keep em for them.
OK, I hate saying this, because it means I'm admitting I was wrong, but I'm starting to agree with this outlook. Since the split up, I seem to have more and more connection and lagging problems. I'm beginning to think it's because the servers have been divided and are trying to keep up with four different world. Or my provider could have screwed up my connection, yet again. More people are whining, including those whining about the whiners. I really haven't seen too many people playing in any of the other arenas and one late war arena will fill to the brim before the other late war arena can even get close to capacity. When the lemmings start running off of the cliff, I just have to go and watch. Maybe the lemmings are on to something. Maybe I was wrong in assuming that the splits would be a good thing. Nobody in the arena's seem to want it and the only ch200 whines I hear are from the same people whining here in the forum.
Sorry, I'm just discouraged with this. I should be better later.
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I've kinda gotten discouraged in the other direction. I dont mind meeting new people. In fact, it's been great getting to know people from all countries...
But I've decided to give up on trying to keep things balanced. If the low side has good fights, or good capture/defense battles -- I'm there. If not, I'm switching to whatever side I can find fun on.
That means that I'll become part of the imbalance problem instead of helping with the solution, but there's only so much one person can do. I'm not going to care about balance more than HiTech does, because thats both frustrating and futile.
Keeping it fun for all 3 countries isn't my job, it's the designer's. If he's abdicated this responsibility in the name of "free choice" for a community that clearly doesn't value the common good, well -- from now on, its not my problem.
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Originally posted by TexInVa
I have just left the arenas and I'm a knight in the ewa, which was the lowest numbered country and found it dead, so I switched to lwa-blue and switched to rooks for the same reason and found that the rooks had become just like the bishops.
Before all of this swapping BS started, I could tell which country I was flying for by what was being said over the vox (or not, in the case of the bishops). After bouncing from country to country for the past week, I've decided that I don't think I like this game anymore.
I'm tired of not knowing whom I have watching my back, nor do I know who it is I'm helping out. Most of the other players are starting to "blur" into each other, if that makes sense. Seems to me that the same people are shooting me down and all of the countrymen I'm up with all have numbers for names. This is the lowest I've scored in a god awful long time, and I don't think I really give a damn anymore.
Then I come in here and hear the same old elitist "it's someone else's fault" and stupid generalizations and assumptions. Take that quote above. Pluck says "i would rather discuss the issue and ignore the people who would rather not, as they really have nothing to contribute it seems." Not once does he "contribute" in that quote, he's saying absolutely nothing. I thank my higher power that I don't work for the post office.
OK, I hate saying this, because it means I'm admitting I was wrong, but I'm starting to agree with this outlook. Since the split up, I seem to have more and more connection and lagging problems. I'm beginning to think it's because the servers have been divided and are trying to keep up with four different world. Or my provider could have screwed up my connection, yet again. More people are whining, including those whining about the whiners. I really haven't seen too many people playing in any of the other arenas and one late war arena will fill to the brim before the other late war arena can even get close to capacity. When the lemmings start running off of the cliff, I just have to go and watch. Maybe the lemmings are on to something. Maybe I was wrong in assuming that the splits would be a good thing. Nobody in the arena's seem to want it and the only ch200 whines I hear are from the same people whining here in the forum.
Sorry, I'm just discouraged with this. I should be better later.
wow!!!! someone just had an epiphany!!!!!
a moment of clarity!!!!
very well said!!!!
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Originally posted by TexInVa
Then I come in here and hear the same old elitist "it's someone else's fault" and stupid generalizations and assumptions. Take that quote above. Pluck says "i would rather discuss the issue and ignore the people who would rather not, as they really have nothing to contribute it seems." Not once does he "contribute" in that quote, he's saying absolutely nothing. I thank my higher power that I don't work for the post office.
okay. what i was saying is that playing a game that allows and rewards players for ganging on a country, i would think, have a tendancy of attracting certain types of players. good or bad, thats not my call.
as for the part you quoted, it is saying something. it is saying many people would rather come here, and rather than discuss an issue, just start in with silly childish bickering about who is a whiner and so on and so forth. the contribution from that quote is, if you want to be heard don't start in with whiner this whiner that; or the other great argument that if someone has too many posts their point is not valid; or claiming that you speak and know the minds of the majority of AH.
i'm sorry you can't have fun with any other countries and your score is suffering. you made friends with your other country, not sure why you can't make friends with everyone else. i agree with you that people should not blame others and take responsability for their actions, but this is mostly just talk. everyone has their reasons for not wanting to level the playing field, yet the problem remains. saying you want to fix it, but will not do what is necessary to fix it, is not exactly helping......the problem remains. this problem was here well before the arenas split, hence eny. the split in some ways has made this problem a bit more intensified, but the outcome has always beent the same. the country with low numbers gets totally pounded by everyone resulting in reset. some don't see this as a problem at all. some view this as the greatest advantage and most fun thing you could have. i worry that this will attract more types of people who don't really want to fight, but beat up on a country that does not have the man power to even come close to making it an engagement......thus moving the game further from what i enjoy the most.
as far as the BBS, ya it was a rough transition with the split and all, now it seems just about back to normal.
shoot, just realized i didn't make validate my point by name calling:( bunch o dweebs. there that should do it.
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Originally posted by Simaril
I like being outnumbered some too. .........
I took a lot on the chin, and well, it stopped being fun.
When I said "find a fight", I meant "find a place to have fun." I dont mind dying, but if there isnt a time when I get to give some back there isnt much joy in it.
Simaril, by adding my comments I didn't mean to sound like I was telling you how to fly. I apologize if that is how it seemed.
Steve
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Yeah, I'm probably just frustrated. I wasn't trying to single you out, pluck. You just happened to catch the blunt end of my discouragement.
As for not making friends..... When you switch countries everytime you log in just to try to balance things out, you spend more time trying to figure out what's going on. The same "swappers" are on, numbers guy is either augering on take-off or is hollering about a panzer at the spawn point or wondering how to land, out loud. Tilt is shooting me down for the bazillianth time, or so it seems. I don't stay in one place long enough to make friends or get comfortable.
And tonight was the first time that I flew with the rooks and the vox was silent.
That, in itself, is enough to break my heart....
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Originally posted by TexInVa
numbers guy is either augering on take-off or is hollering about a panzer at the spawn point or wondering how to land, out loud. T
you forgot trying to k/s himself by shooting you on take off:D is np bud, think we all have periods of discouragement. mine usually comes after a long day of work, i log on to try to find a good fight, and spend 30 minutes in tower then log. i'm sure the strat guys have their moments too, which are probably the exact opposite of mine (everyone furballing) :)
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Bottom line(s) here...
this is a game...not a simulation of WWII (despite what TV commercials might nidicate)...nothing more...nothing less...games are intended to be fun...real war is not intedend to be fun or fair...guys who get pissed about dying wont be here for the long term anyhow...as long as there's a chance to win most folks don't mind dying as long as there's some semblance of fairness to it...I don't care how 1337 you consider yoursrself to be...in 1 5v1 you wont win unless the 5 are all zipcode guys...I've been drinking too much...again
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All I can say numberss sucked in the LW Blue arena tonight. Flying for the rooks and seeing just uncountable bish numbers attack the nothern bases starting at a21. Looked at the roster just to see and to find that rooks had only 60 people on where bish had more than 110 and knights a little less than 100. The ENY limit was up over 15 and the bish just kept rolling through until the "war" was won.
After relogging back in after the reset, I saw the ENY limit for the bish was at 29 and wasnt changing along with the knights roughly around 10.
I honestly dont see the ENY limiter affecting the sides. With there being two late war arenas its hard for countries to have equal sides so I see it that as long as there are 2 LW arenas there will always be lopsided numbers.
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Maybe the side imbalance wouldn't be so great, if people didn't constantly switch to the side preceived to be winning the "war." Maybe they wouldn't be so quick to switch to the larger or currently more successful side if they didn't get all those perk points for being on the winning side at the reset.
Might that be some of the problem?
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Originally posted by RAPIER
Maybe the side imbalance wouldn't be so great, if people didn't constantly switch to the side preceived to be winning the "war." Maybe they wouldn't be so quick to switch to the larger or currently more successful side if they didn't get all those perk points for being on the winning side at the reset.
Might that be some of the problem?
Unlikely, since you don't get perk points if you switch within a set number of hours of the reset. Is it 6 hours on the country??
Anyway, switching to the winning side isnt going to get perks.
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I think it's still 12 hours, but I'm not entirely sure.
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This will all fade away when CT opens in a couple of weeks, I've been told. Everyone will be so excited by the new environment they will stop whining- except for me, of course- I always seem to pick the arena with Rooks outnumbered & I whine all night.
-MI-
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Originally posted by Hoarach
All I can say numberss sucked in the LW Blue arena tonight. Flying for the rooks and seeing just uncountable bish numbers attack the nothern bases starting at a21. Looked at the roster just to see and to find that rooks had only 60 people on where bish had more than 110 and knights a little less than 100. The ENY limit was up over 15 and the bish just kept rolling through until the "war" was won.
After relogging back in after the reset, I saw the ENY limit for the bish was at 29 and wasnt changing along with the knights roughly around 10.
I honestly dont see the ENY limiter affecting the sides. With there being two late war arenas its hard for countries to have equal sides so I see it that as long as there are 2 LW arenas there will always be lopsided numbers.
I was on for quite a while tonight mostly in LW Blue. For a while Bish had #'s on both Rooks and Knights and won the re-set. After that Bish and Knights were almost equal (Knights actually had the edge) and Rooks were down. Rooks were getting beat back by both sides but there was a huge fight going on between the Bish and Knights in the North.
I also logged into LW Orange for a fight immediately after the reset in Blue. Rooks had #'s and Bish and Knights were almost equal and both were getting steamrolled by the Rooks.
Mostly it looked to me like the Rooks gave up one arena to steamroll the other. If they hadn't all sides in both arenas would have probably been balanced.
Eny limiter for Bish was hovering around 20 most of the night. OK with me, just got to go get some kills in a Spit V and a FM2 for a change. Oh, and I was in the Bish-Knight fight most of the night.
Just a day or two ago Knights were getting trashed in both arenas.
Like I said in my earlier post, imbalance has always been the case, will always be the case, and will inevitably change over time. There's no point in whining. You just need to roll with it.
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Originally posted by Hoarach
All I can say numberss sucked in the LW Blue arena tonight. Flying for the rooks and seeing just uncountable bish numbers attack the nothern bases starting at a21. Looked at the roster just to see and to find that rooks had only 60 people on where bish had more than 110 and knights a little less than 100. The ENY limit was up over 15 and the bish just kept rolling through until the "war" was won.
After relogging back in after the reset, I saw the ENY limit for the bish was at 29 and wasnt changing along with the knights roughly around 10.
I honestly dont see the ENY limiter affecting the sides. With there being two late war arenas its hard for countries to have equal sides so I see it that as long as there are 2 LW arenas there will always be lopsided numbers.
Yup..and the worse ONE arena gets, just forces the OTHER further in opposite direction--at this point, as a Rook, I'd rather get steam-rolled by the Bish-horde in Blue, as at least THERE, I can fly the plane that kept me from quitting the game--p47N...alas, at prime-time EST, I cant even do that, as Blue is usually full/locked, with no way available to hep lowest numbered (read Rook) side
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Hordes do not necessaraly only exist when there is an imbalance............obviousl y when one side is heavily populated then it is most likely to exhibit horde tendancies..............
Hordes can operate from all sides they are simply massive missions or consecutive attacks where the "mega group" or horde stays together................a swarm. (An instinctive gathering)
These have local consequences.........hordes do not operate all over a map they focus massive numbers in one place causing an instant massive imbalance locally......................
We have seen many occasions where a superiority of numbers on one side (attacking a base) does not mean instant loss of that base for the other............ either the number superiority is not high enough or the numbers superiority is not maintained at the target base. (the attackers do not achieve the goal of having all their numbers at the base at the same time)
Effectively then all that has to happen is to break up the horde such that it is not instinctively easy to bring massive numbers in one place by "swarming".
Zone limits do this.........they deny players the opportunity to launch (or have launched) massive numbers from one base .
A zone limit places a limit on the number of players that can be spawned from a base at any one time.
It works like this.................
Lets assume we have a map where the optimum zone limit is 20 ............
Lets assume that the zone limit only applies to airfields and CV's..........
This is fine but when a side is down to 3 airfields the zone limit may not be high enough for its population.
IF ((pop/AF)>20,(pop/AF),20)
Such that the Zone limit increases if the field numbers fall below a critical number.
With this in place horde based fields will fill up and new horde members will be required to launch from elsewhere or use a local GV fields.
To overcome this hordes would need to get organised...........(swarms are not organised they are "instinctive") which they will not do. Hence there may be still a total population imbalance but it would not be allowed to focus massive numbers instantly in one place.(unless they are attacking one base from two local bases)
Further large missions would then tend to be launched from rear fields. Giving more notice of their impending arrival and permitting some time to form a defence.
The above is the most basic form of Zone limit but it could be taken further.........it could be linked to ENY such that a side with massive numbers has its zone limit reduced in steps down from 20 to say 15.
In this way everyone can still join the side they want and fly the plane they want but they may find they are further from the action if they join a side with a massively greater population than the others.
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ROFLMFAO!!