Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: B@tfinkV on December 30, 2006, 12:07:11 PM
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just throwing the idea out there.
i've found alot of footage of the build up to the death sentance including putting the noose round his neck.
has anyone seen footage of the trap door dropping?
just a chance, but i think its possible this historic event may be a fake.
im not certain of course, just a hunch.
does anyone have evidence that he is very much dead right now?
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I just talked to him on the phone and he assures me that he is in fact dead.
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Yes, it was faked. The U.S. and Iraqi Gov't wanted uprisings, and wanted them fast, so they accelerated the ruse.
Silliest thing I've heard (no reflection on you Bat, but I've heard similar posts on other political boards) since the french guys saying that the pentagon crash on 9/11 didn't happen.
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lol FLS
no offence taken Rip, but you need to show me films of the trap door dropping, or pictures of a corpse in a box before i believe it 100%
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Well its not out of the realm of possibility.
I'd think it'd make more sense for them to hang one of his doubles (saddam had a squad of people who had plastic surgery to look like him) and keep the original alive to interrogate him at will.
After all, you cant violate the human rights of a dead person.
I hope he IS alive and being interrogated in every possible manner.
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I agree, that film was done at the same place as the moon landing, the shadows are all wrong.
shamus
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:noid :noid :noid :noid :noid :noid
:aok
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sadam is in a russian sub on his way to Argentina right now.
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A film doesn't prove anything, with modern technology an execution can be faked ever so easy.
Only way to be sure is to witness it and take the pulse personally after the event.
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They shoulda set up an online execution...
You log in & register..then when the little execution signal turns green,everyone clicks on the trap-door lever.
Sorta like the 3 button(3 people) method they use to administer lethal injections.
No one knows who presses the kill switch..But this way the whole world gets in on the sentence.
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Well,
according to Voss, when he pulled the handle it was SH on the end of the rope.
:noid :noid
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voss saw it happen? it must be true, did he by any chance shoot the drop handle from 1.5miles away with the latest CIA sniper rifle?
in all seriousness, i do think he is still alive.
saddam, not voss.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
in all seriousness, i do think he is still alive.
Perhaps I'm just confused by your usage of "seriousness", "think", and "alive".
Maybe, like the English phrase "knock up", they have a different meaning in American English.
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its just a feeling. it all started when all my searching for video only found those of him before the trap door was dropped.
the footage is convincing, Saddam, if it is indeed him in the footage, looks like a man who is chitting himself and about to die. its almost saddening to look at his eyes from a neutral viewpoint. but every film ive seen stops showing it at the same point.
Saddam may have been a cruel dictator and an evil man but he was exceptionaly intelligent and cunning. more importantly he was/is very manipulative and I imagine he had a large number of very powerfull allies in the world.
dont know why, i just have a feeling... sure i realise how its a bit far out for a conspiracy theory.
'Knock', or 'knock up' could be anything from trying to obtain entry through someones front door, beating crap out of something, or what i might do to someone's daughter just before they rip my legs off and make me eat them. there could be other meanings still :aok
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Baseless conspiracy theories aren't harmless, they kill people. How much of the fighting in the middle east is a result of "tha jews control tha world!!!!" conspiracy theories, for example? Quite a bit, every press release is zionist this and that.
Tell me, what's your opinion on the US Moon Landings and the 9/11 attacks?
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Only way to be sure is to witness it and take the pulse personally after the event.
There are medications that will temporarily stop a human heart.
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They're taking him to New Mexico to put him in the saucer with the aliens.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Baseless conspiracy theories aren't harmless, they kill people. How much of the fighting in the middle east is a result of "tha jews control tha world!!!!" conspiracy theories, for example? Quite a bit, every press release is zionist this and that.
Tell me, what's your opinion on the US Moon Landings and the 9/11 attacks?
woah slow down cowboy, one thing at a time eh?
suggesting saddam may have had some more tricks up his sleeve right here in the oclub is pretty harmless imo.
the jews have always taken stick, hardly my fault.
the zion train has still never come so thats moot.
the moon landings are just that, moon landings, hurray for humans again, arnt we just the business, wow.
the 9/11 attack and the 30,000 odd that died are no different, hold on, less horrific to the battle of the Somme in WW1 for instance, when looked at with 20 years hindsight. WW2 saw countless millions of innocents bombed gassed or swept away. just another statistic.
saddam could still be alive, not that it makes much real difference to me either way.
imagine the genius of creating a martyr of yourself and not really dying.
some guy about 2000 years ago that apparently was nailed to bits of wood, died, then came out of a cave for easter eggs seemed to think it was a good plan.
what if in 2006 years people are worshipping the mad scriptures of saddam and how the 'evil' oppressors of his time captured him, killed him, yet he still appeared before people.
yes to liken tales of an evil man to a saintis unlikely. but lets not forget that god was supposedly a bit of a harsh dictator who was not unknown to destroy entire cities if they pissed him off.
i can see it now. 'Saddamists say NO to gay marrige in Bagdad, the center of the first worlds culture!' april 15th 2006AS
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Proof hes dead (http://www.liveleak.com/saddam3.html) \
this should prove it that hes dead
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Originally posted by FLS
I just talked to him on the phone and he assures me that he is in fact dead.
LOL, whats his number, I want to say 'Hello'
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thats not bad.
doesnt show his neck in the noose and the trap door dropping.
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doh...already posted
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Originally posted by 1epic1
Proof hes dead (http://www.liveleak.com/saddam3.html) \
this should prove it that hes dead
Cool how can I download that?
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Originally posted by dmf
Cool how can I download that?
you can't but you click on the send to a friend link to email it to people
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btw http://www.liveleak.com used to be Ogrish...so keep going to liveleak for the next few days, cause if there was video of the hanging it will show up here
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doesnt show his neck in the noose and the trap door dropping.
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give me a break bfink. even if you saw video of the guys neck snapping you would just carry on about it being faked. If you dont believe it now, you never will.
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Gee, that didnt take long, what is it about conspiracy theories? is it a sign of a weak civilisation or what?
Give it a freaking rest.
Here, from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking
For all the 9-11, Diana, JFK, Pearl Harbor, Alien Abduction, Sasquatch, Loch Ness Monster, Elvis lives fools out there...
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No kidding. Well, I won't link directly to full video (cell phone camera, I think) of the execution, but I think it's ok to link to the digg.com page that links to it:
http://www.digg.com/world_news/COMPLETE_VIDEO_Saddam_EXECUTION
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dead as a doornail.
Don't RIP Saddam, for you could have done some remedy after yer capture.
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2:26 in the video.
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Originally posted by Angus
Don't RIP Saddam, for you could have done some remedy after yer capture.
great now you just cursed him to walk the earth as a zombie.
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wow - i am suprised more haven't seen this yet - He be dead.
Still think dying was too good for 'im.
Best would have been to tell him everyday that the next morning at dawn he would be executed, bring him to the gallows, then at the last second deny him his death by controlling his life, then bring him back for an *ss whoopin. Rinse, repeat.
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lols some people are pretty serious about his kind of thing eh?
so much for a bit of fun :D
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Saddam will live in peoples minds and in history forever. Quite much more than most of us can say about themselves. :D
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Too bad they didn't put the hanging on Pay Per View..
It would have made a fortune.
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HERES THE VIDEO OF THE WHOLE HANGING!@!!!!!!
ITS REAL!!!!
NO THANKS NEEDED!!!
The Saddam Hanging Video (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=863ce7d4a3)
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None given. It's been posted already :)
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Saddam was executed?
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no it was a fake double, as we all are coming to accept.
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they buried him (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/12/30/hussein.funeral/index.html)
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He doesn't deserve the attention. But it pains me to ask why most people give pissants in society like this the attention?
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Originally posted by Regular
Saddam was executed?
no, where did you hear that!?
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Bagdad Bob was just on CNN...he says Saddam is alive and well, and there are no Americans in Iraq.
:rofl
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pwned
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Shouldn't they have fed him to the pigs?
(Guess I watched "Snatch" too often)
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Originally posted by Angus
Shouldn't they have fed him to the pigs?
(Guess I watched "Snatch" too often)
a man can never watch too much snatch, especially if its clean cut.
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I was listening to the radio on the way home from work. They were watching the cellphone video and giving the play by play. I heard he refused the black hood and was ranting away to the end bitter. His last words were: "There is no God, but God..."and they dropped him. There is no footage showing him hitting the end of the rope. I'm on dialup and can't get the vid.
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Saddam refused the hood. One of the executioners told him he had destroyed Iraq and forced them all to live in poverty. Saddam retorted he had protected Iraq from the Persians and Americans. The Executioner said something to the effect of FU (Arab style with "Allah" and "curses") as he tightens the noose around Saddam's neck. Saddam returns the gesture. Saddam then begins to pray to Allah. Halfway through the second verse the trapdoors open and he falls to his death. His last word was "Mohammed".
A fitting end to a horrible man, but he did face death more bravely than I expected.
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did you get that from lip reading or audio? do you speak arabic?
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Nope. I read a translation in VG (a Norwegian newspaper).
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His last word was "Mohammed". No virgins awaits him.
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http://videos.netscape.com/story/2006/12/30/saddam-execution-video-full-including-the-drop
not for morbid giggles but just to see the result of the search for WMD's. I personally have mixed feelings about this. Was he executed for murdering his own people or just for murder? If so, which leader hasnt had to liquidate some competitors along the path to gain power? Are the US marines who are on trial for murder going to be hanged? Or is this just a personal grudge against saddam by The Bush's? Maybe a strong message to the leaders of Syria and Iran?
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I saw the footage, both of the official news release as well as the cellphone video. Personally, I would have preferred not to.
As much as I know he deserved it, thousands of times over, as much as I believe that capital punishment has its place in human society, I could not help myself but feel sympathy for this broken old bastard as they were about to take his life from him.
Would he have felt sympathy for me, had our positions been reversed? certainly not.
Did he ever feel anything towards his victims, in the way of compassion? I highly doubt it.
Is the world better off without him? Sure.
Nevertheless, after months of getting used to seeing his face, and hearing his voice, watching his last moments did nothing but unsettle me. I watched a merciless dictator getting just a fraction of his just deserts and I felt sorry watching it happen to him. I watched the death of a man who would probably hate me simply for who I am and where I came from, and yet it made me feel bad to do so. There, I said it.
I hope he did not feel any pain. It would have been a feeble and pathetic cherry on top of an already grotesquely morbid pie. If there is a god, I hope he treats him with understanding and shows Saddam the mercy that he did not show to those he destroyed.
I guess I should expect to get flamed for this by the torch-bearers of this board, so go right ahead.
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Neubob I think there is paint drying somewhere near you, and it is worthier of your time... Every moment you spend concerning yourself with something **** is a moment you could've spent on something good, that you're never getting back.
Criminals stop being newsworthy as soon as their criminality is neutralized.
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well said neubob.
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Neubobs point is only strenghened by the fact that this was your former ally that got executed. The man who shook Bush Sr.'s hand in agreement.
Once upon a time.
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,240117,00.html
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hes not dead!!1one
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Neubobs point is only strenghened by the fact that this was your former ally that got executed. The man who shook Bush Sr.'s hand in agreement.
Once upon a time.
Your point? At the time, it was in the best interest to be an alliance with Sadaam and Iraq. As everything, times changed. Power grew, and areas of influence and control changed....Are you also bitter about the lend lease program to the Russians during WWII?
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In all of its faults, there is one thing Iraq does more efficiently then the United States. They actually execute their death row sentenced prisoners in a very affordable and timely manner! none of this 20 years and 14 appeals.
Justice has been served.
***By the way, I do not share any of Neubob's feelings of remorse and possibly regret. Infact, I was partying in Manhattan the night of his execution, and throughout the night took celebatory shots that the piece of watermelon is dead. The same piece of chit, that for better or for worse, we went into Iraq for twice, and who is responsible for the deaths of over 3,000 soldiers.
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Originally posted by moot
Neubob I think there is paint drying somewhere near you, and it is worthier of your time... Every moment you spend concerning yourself with something **** is a moment you could've spent on something good, that you're never getting back.
Criminals stop being newsworthy as soon as their criminality is neutralized.
I agree with this. A moot point is a moot point. However, the reason I made that post was because those images were and will remain haunting, and in the future, when these worthless emotions are dulled, those images will serve as a reminder that death is always mysterious, frightening, and terminal.
Ripley, if you're going to use any excuse available to make jabs at American politics, I would appreciate it if in the future, you excercised a little discretion on whose name you use. I made my post out of my own surprise towards my gut response to a man's death. If you're looking for an avenue to find fault with US policy, you've got plenty of more relevant facts and ideas from which to draw.
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Originally posted by cav58d
***By the way, I do not share any of Neubob's feelings of remorse and possibly regret. Infact, I was partying in Manhattan the night of his execution, and throughout the night took celebatory shots that the piece of watermelon is dead.
You know cav, when I first felt this remorse, I was ashamed of myself. Thanks for bringing me back to reality.
You're a real man.
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i'm right with you there neubob.
i didnt feel sorry that Saddam was being killed, i felt sorry for a human in an impossible situation, i felt moved by the imagery of a formal excecution.
i tried putting myself in his shoes, looking into his soon to be dead eyes.
it was haunting, and of that i have no shame.
i go hunting rats with a long stick, they play havoc in our chicken feed shed. i still feel sorry for them after ive broken thier backs, and i have to aim a finishing blow to the head. its something along those lines.
(PS: hes not dead)
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
i didnt feel sorry that Saddam was being killed, i felt sorry for a human in an impossible situation, i felt moved by the imagery of a formal excecution.
i tried putting myself in his shoes, looking into his soon to be dead eyes.
it was haunting, and of that i have no shame.
That's pretty much everything I was getting at.
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"one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic", Joe Stalin.
saddam was a butcher, he tortured people to death, i don't understand how you could feel remorse for his death. I feel sorry for all the people he murdered.
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Originally posted by Neubob
[B You're a real man. [/B]
I'm very sorry to upset your gentile sensibilties, but the death of this man was important to me. I lost a very close friend from college in Baghdad, 2003 when Sadaam was still be hunted down...I have many other friends who have made it back, but life just isn't the same because of pts...Sadaam is one of the very few people on the earth, that I can block out any human remorse during his death...maybe I came off rough before, this isn't attacking you...Guess it just shows, people deal with situations in different ways
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I don't see what's so special about Saddam. I think it's ironic you're the sort that'll point out the irony in some pretty cynical situations, but then go soft on a full blown dictator's death by the sword, after his living by it, willfully.
That "haunting" look in his eyes, I think, is the same as any other deer's in the headlights.. Really, if anything, I think it's ridiculous someone could play with fire so much, and then deflate when what he knew would come, should he let it, came.
Now, Castro, on the other hand.. :cry I don't know if I'll be able to keep my composure when he stops swinging his arms like clockwork, in his running suit. It's just so down to earth and innocent, all my senses of justice fly out the window.
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Originally posted by moot
I think it's ironic you're the sort that'll point out the irony in some pretty cynical situations, but then go soft on a full blown dictator's death by the sword, after his living by it, willfully.
It is ironic. Like I said, I was surprised by my own reaction, and remain surprised. What's so special about this situation is that his was a face that I became unintentionally familiar with, and then witnessed the last moment of its existence. What fink said about a man in an impossible situation, and the subsequent empathy is especially relevant. I imagined myself with that noose around my head, imagined my loved ones watching it on TV, and I was terrified.
Cav, I really don't want to get into a political discussion with you on this matter. This is certainly not the time for it, and I doubt you'd be receptive it it were...If you feel that Saddam killed somebody that was close to you, you have all the right in the world to feel angry or vengeful. God knows I've felt both anger and hatred towards people who have had less direct effect on my life.
What remains valid is this: Whenever humanity must resort to execution, it is a symptom of a much greater tragedy. That tragedy is not over, and no matter how many times you hang him, justice will never be achieved. The killing was a gesture, and a very real one that that. He deserved it, as much as anyone ever has....I only wished I'd never been stupid enough to watch it.
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I agree, but not with the part where you're terrified to be in his shoes.
In his shoes, I'd have lived like a Kingly Bastard, and just like everyone else, had to die some day, and that day came after milking life beyond its last drop... He would have had to be pretty unconscious or foolish to go all this time, or even make the first step with the end in mind (and I think someone of his caliber knew what the end was, as he first undertook the means to it), fearing that end. If that's what happened, then I agree.. but I don't think that's how it happened.
I think that even if I were such a tyrant, I couldn't have made it so far without a pretty accurate understanding of how life works, so that when the noose went around my head, it would have felt like the Right thing. I would have gone with a clear conscience.
That's what I mean when I say he is not special.. he went out in an orderly way, relative to the seeds he'd planted.
I don't mean to split hairs, just pointing out why I come to a different conclusion from the same premise.
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i think the majority of neubobs thoughts relate to the fact that:
A) Saddam has been a household name and face for 15 years+, we usualy relate him to political images of a proud leader, an unstoppable power. To see this figure calmly marched to the gallows and gently strung up into a man made contraption for killing, is somewhat strange.
B)watching any lifeform trapped, cornered, accepting its own death without a struggle, is somehow haunting and upsetting.
the bit i underline is what gets me the most, its difficult to imagine the feelings he wold have felt right then, but starting to imagine them makes me feel a bit saddened by humanity in general, no matter the crime.
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If that's so, then we'll just agree to disagree. I don't know if it's new year's or what, I'm feeling pretty zen.
A) is normal, otherwise it wouldn't have happened. It seems to me that you're saying you're feeling disillusioned, but (I don't mean this ofensively at all) that's your own doing. It's not a matter of right and wrong, in general or in this case, it's just an eerie self-conscious check letting you know you've let a faulty idea run unchecked.
He passed for something, and reality has dispelled that something for what it really was. If anything, I think it should be sobering in a comforting way; what's more uncomfortable than being out of touch with reality?
B) is normal too, if there is nothing the lifeform can do. Fretting over something you can do nothing about is absurd because in vain.
And feelings, well what do you expect? They're always a gamble, they're not sanctionned by reason.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
just throwing the idea out there.
i've found alot of footage of the build up to the death sentance including putting the noose round his neck.
has anyone seen footage of the trap door dropping?
just a chance, but i think its possible this historic event may be a fake.
im not certain of course, just a hunch.
does anyone have evidence that he is very much dead right now?
I've seen foottage of him hanging dead on the rope... pretty ****ed up, really. He is very much dead.
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If I had been there I would have beat his body like a pinata, ate a whole cow, quaffed a keg of beer and lay with a hundred women...because I'm Thrawn: Internet Tough Guy.
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:cry ad hominem :cry
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
http://videos.netscape.com/story/2006/12/30/saddam-execution-video-full-including-the-drop
not for morbid giggles but just to see the result of the search for WMD's. I personally have mixed feelings about this. Was he executed for murdering his own people or just for murder? If so, which leader hasnt had to liquidate some competitors along the path to gain power? Are the US marines who are on trial for murder going to be hanged? Or is this just a personal grudge against saddam by The Bush's? Maybe a strong message to the leaders of Syria and Iran?
I think Syria .... "gets It " , Iran hasn't a clue, ......yet .....
Take a look at this little cartoon .... might shead some light .
http://oldbluejacket.com/A%20Message%20From%20The%20General.htm
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
http://videos.netscape.com/story/2006/12/30/saddam-execution-video-full-including-the-drop
not for morbid giggles but just to see the result of the search for WMD's. I personally have mixed feelings about this. Was he executed for murdering his own people or just for murder? If so, which leader hasnt had to liquidate some competitors along the path to gain power? Are the US marines who are on trial for murder going to be hanged? Or is this just a personal grudge against saddam by The Bush's? Maybe a strong message to the leaders of Syria and Iran?
Maybe it was justice dished out to an a**hole who was in long overdue for it. Plus the Iraqis hung him not the Bush , Cheney, or Rumsfeild. As far as no WMD's it's been all over the media since the execution about him gassing Kurds. Now he has em , no he don't.
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Originally posted by CHECKERS
I think Syria .... "gets It " , Iran hasn't a clue, ......yet .....
Take a look at this little cartoon .... might shead some light .
http://oldbluejacket.com/A%20Message%20From%20The%20General.htm
If I was going to refer to a cartoon for moral guidance I would choose the Shmoo.
Shifty I would respond to your post but unfortunately I can only correspond in english.
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moot, i do see your point, thats a good summary for a neutral viewpoint about my feelings.
dont get me wrong, i would not have seen him released and retired to a bungalo in spain. he got less than what he deserved.
for some reason i find myself tying to relate to his feelings at the gallows, no reason why, no certainty that i get even close to his thoughts.....but something just made me feel sad for humanity. i cant explain.
wont keep me awake though, just finished at one party and waiting for my brother and mates to come crashing back in (hopefully with something to smoke :))
happy new years all.
(PS: its a hoax, he isnt dead)
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I just wanted to say thanks for quoting me in your sig Neubob, lmao made my night.
And it was a body double.:D
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
moot, i do see your point, thats a good summary for a neutral viewpoint about my feelings.
dont get me wrong, i would not have seen him released and retired to a bungalo in spain. he got less than what he deserved.
for some reason i find myself tying to relate to his feelings at the gallows, no reason why, no certainty that i get even close to his thoughts.....but something just made me feel sad for humanity. i cant explain.
wont keep me awake though, just finished at one party and waiting for my brother and mates to come crashing back in (hopefully with something to smoke :))
Problably that the US is going to be forced into using the same style of oppression in order to continue the occupation of Iraq. Why is it killing mooslim terrorists when the US kills, but a crime against humanity when saddam kills?
happy new years all.
(PS: its a hoax, he isnt dead)
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Shifty I would respond to your post but unfortunately I can only correspond in english.
what an imbicilic thing to type. however then considering the source shifty should feel honored.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
.
Shifty I would respond to your post but unfortunately I can only correspond in english.
How fortunate for our non english speaking friends.
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"He was just a swingin..... and snappin his fingers"
Mac
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Originally posted by storch
what an imbicilic thing to type. however then considering the source shifty should feel honored.
"What and imbecilic thing to type. However, considering the source, Shifty should feel honoured."
See, I can also translate other languages into english or at least a reasonable facsimile of english.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
"What and imbecilic thing to type. However, considering the source, Shifty should feel honored."
See, I can also translate other languages into english or at least a reasonable facsimile of english.
leave it to a socialist country to add additional but not necessary parts to everything. small wonder you folks are in such dire straits.
ahhhhh see much better now. simply and tidy.
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Fair enough storch, at least I could glean your message.
But I honestly couldn't decipher this, "As far as no WMD's it's been all over the media since the execution about him gassing Kurds. Now he has em , no he don't.".
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i agree thrawn, it rivals SmashR's :
'dam stik stir pony dweeb run lucky no you me hav no taters'
now that was a quote worth remembering. pure genius.
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LOL !!
(http://www.taiga.net/reports/traditional_fisheries/Icefishing1.jpg)
someone check bat's fishing licenses :)
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(http://www.taiga.net/reports/traditional_fisheries/Icefishing1.jpg)
I TOLD YOU.
i knew it.
that is clearly a picture of Saddam fishing, not hard to regocnise that smirk and beard. in my talented estimation i would suggest that photo was taken at approx. 03:43 hours in a small village in eskimo land. It makes perfect sense seeing as everyone knows eskimos don't believe in colour photography.
wtg eagler, i knew someone would come up trumps on this one, thank you man
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Fair enough storch, at least I could glean your message.
But I honestly couldn't decipher this, "As far as no WMD's it's been all over the media since the execution about him gassing Kurds. Now he has em , no he don't.".
thrawn, dear fellow, spend a week with a newfie couple and you'll come back truly multi-lingual.
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Originally posted by Shamus
I agree, that film was done at the same place as the moon landing, the shadows are all wrong.
shamus
:rofl
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He's dead. I don't think we should have handed him over to the Iraqis for execution; he was a p.o.w. & you don't execute p.o.w.'s unless you want yours executed by their captors in the future. Not to mention he was the leader of the country, not some common criminal.
The United States govt. proved years ago it would kill hundreds of thousands of it's own people to police them, that's really not much different than what Saddam did; he controlled his country the only way it's possible to control a country in that situation & in that part of the world. I am for the war in Iraq & pro U.S. & pro President Bush, but executing Saddam Hussein was a mistake in my humble opinion.
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Originally posted by Brenjen
He's dead. I don't think we should have handed him over to the Iraqis for execution; he was a p.o.w. & you don't execute p.o.w.'s unless you want yours executed by their captors in the future. Not to mention he was the leader of the country, not some common criminal.
The United States govt. proved years ago it would kill hundreds of thousands of it's own people to police them, that's really not much different than what Saddam did; he controlled his country the only way it's possible to control a country in that situation & in that part of the world. I am for the war in Iraq & pro U.S. & pro President Bush, but executing Saddam Hussein was a mistake in my humble opinion.
I couldn't agree with you more. I think he needed to be toppled but handing him over to another group of barbaric arab thugs was not what we should have done. bad move by all involved. the proof is the undiginified way his corpse was teabagged by his executioners while they were shouting muqtar repeatedly at a dead guy.
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Think the US and the UK would have wanted him hanged ASAP, after all, they are the ones who gave him all the Chemicals and other stuff required to wage his wars, so they would want this episode put to bed pronto.
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Originally posted by Hawco
Think the US and the UK would have wanted him hanged ASAP, after all, they are the ones who gave him all the Chemicals and other stuff required to wage his wars,
where do you get your information from?
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The United States govt. proved years ago it would kill hundreds of thousands of it's own people to police them
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clue me in as to what your talking about here bren?
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Originally posted by john9001
where do you get your information from?
Try Google, if that doesn't work, Go over there and ask around, you'll find plenty of well informed Iraqis that will share their opinion and knowledge of their recent history.
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Holy crap, I went to get socks out of my sock draw today and you know what I found in there? That's right, Saddam freakin Hussein!
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Originally posted by Hawco
Try Google, if that doesn't work, Go over there and ask around, you'll find plenty of well informed Iraqis that will share their opinion and knowledge of their recent history.
that sounds like you don't have any proof, you are making it up.
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Originally posted by john9001
that sounds like you don't have any proof, you are making it up.
Sounds like you can't type in google.com or are too lazy, anyway, go over there and ask, I can't be bothered getting into this to be honest, got too much to do today to go d@@@@g around on here.
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Originally posted by Hawco
Sounds like you can't type in google.com or are too lazy, anyway, go over there and ask, I can't be bothered getting into this to be honest, got too much to do today to go d@@@@g around on here.
so you make unfounded claims against the USA and UK but can't be "bothered" to prove them.
i call shenanigans.
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all I have ever seen with regards to Iraqi military weapons was dozens of Migs, thousands of Hinds, BMPs and T-55s, hundreds of thousands of AK47s, RPGs...all old crappy soviet stuff bought with oil.
hawco has been fed some seriously bad data. he cant even be bothered to come up with some links supporting his claims....just go to iraq and ask the "smart iraqis" he says......lol.
hawco bro, you need to post with a disclaimer that reads "drivel ahead, pay no attention"
next :rolleyes:
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The not so Civil war is what I'm referring to. That was American vs. American & not much different than the Kurds Saddam was oppressing. If Sherman had chemical weapons I'm sure he would've used them on his march to the sea.
I know, people will say "that's a stretch" & it is in a way; but Saddam Hussein ruled his country in the same way leaders all around the world have ruled for centuries. The U.S. govt. would do the same thing to it's own citizens if an entire community rose up, tried to kill the president & began open warfare against the govt's troops in the region. They would open fire. Not with with nuclear, chemical or biological weapons of course, but tanks & attack helicopters make people just as dead & the federal govt of the United States of America has shown on more than one occasion they will use the military to police the populace.
If you don't count the war of northern aggression as proof there are many, more modern instances where troops have been used with fatal consequences in more recent times. Kent state, Waco Tx., the Chicago high rise that was bombed with a concussion bomb an air natl guard plane that ignited gasoline stored on the roof & caused a big fire & killed several of the militants holed up inside (occurred in the 60's or early 70's iirc)
Then there are instance where the govt just ignored the posse comitatus act & used the army in the watts riots & then later in L.A in the aftermath of the Rodney King debacle; no one was killed by the military in those latter two instances to my knowledge but it could have easily happened.
I'm not saying any of those instances are right or wrong, but only proof that the president of the United States would authorize the putting down of insurrection inside this country by force of arms if it was deemed necessary up to & including killing 20,000 people. Saddam was a horrible man, but; he ruled the only way he could in that area & retain control...by force.
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on new years eve saddam, noriega & i did "body shots" off princess di's ass.
dont tell anyone
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Were her knockers as hot as they looked in pictures?
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copy that bren, civil war........although I might challenge you on whether the confederate military forces were actually americans at the time....interesting question.
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Originally posted by Brenjen
Were her knockers as hot as they looked in pictures?
dont know, they were burried in the buffet table, iirc in the horseradish sauce or maybe it was jim morrison's lap he is a sloppy eater & lazy too, so he sits on the buffet table & it was difficult to differentiate the two :mad: :mad: :mad: gross
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a creature should not accept death that calm. unless they want to die.
life is a fight to the death, and life should fight to preserve life to the death.
if that is real footage of his excecution, which is most likely, then we can be sure of one of three things.
1) saddam wanted to die
2) saddam is not dead
3) despite his life of pure evil tyrany, saddam was vastly more brave and proud than many a man on this day in history. he showed corouge and kept composure in the hands of his hugely stronger enemys at war, and took what they delt him standing with his face showing.
there were times in all of ours history when killing thousands of your enemies was considered magnificant. saddam was no different to any european king for most of the last 2000 years.
all but one.
America.
all America did was kicked the crap out of the people who lived there, kicked the crap out of itself really well, kicked the crap out of anyone else in the world that tried to fight on her soil, kicked the crap out of the germans and the japanese, and then got bored when everyone stopped trying so started kicking the crap out of anyone she choose really. sometimes well sometimes not so well.
in essance, in this incredible moment in human history, when the muslims took the crusades to the heart of the christians power source, when the capabilities of war could destroy all life on earth overnight. when money means more than blood or oxygen. when global equality is as unbalanced as its ever been.... in this time in essance, America, is the most moralistic and has the shortest, yet the most pure and honest history of any human nation.
right now the history of the United States of America is short, but it is the makings of a history that may be remembered by some as the evolution of civilisation. to a new level of honesty, botherhood and fairplay.
America can advance this history or it can start the long slide down to where the rest of our world's 'great nation's' histories have sunk to, with countless years showing what happens when people become more powerfull than they're counterparts on the other side of the world. or even in the next street to them.
So far in the last decade the enemies of America have commited horrendous crimes against civillians, they are already destroying any chance of keeping up with the rapidly evolving world
by comparison America is exactly what it hope and strives to be and i hope in the coming few hundred years she carries on with her pure history.
for what its worth on my 3rd option for saddam, i think most world leaders today would be dragged kicked and screaming to the gallows and weep and beg for mercy. most definitely tony blair.
i think George Bush would take it like a man, with the same show of human leadership and unbreakable courage that great men have shown for 1000s of years.
America my lady, i salute your possible history to come.
hamish
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I agree Batfink, the U.S.A. is on the teetering edge, trying to do the right thing in a really tough time. In the U.S. you hear "get religion out of everything blah-blah-blah" but for many radical muslims this is a religious war.
We hear we're not supposed to profile people so there are 95 year old white women in wheel chairs being pulled aside in airports for extra screening; yet it's clear what race, age & sex the majority of our enemies are & that old woman doesn't fit the bill.
We have all this security that's costing us billions of dollars to keep out the "bad-guys" but millions of un-documented, un-screened aliens come across our southern border with help from Mexico; but it's racist to build a fence & station our military on the border.
We fight when we can with or without popular support from our "allies", some wars we fight in are short & luck is with us, others are not. Muslims in the former Yugoslavia that were being kicked around by the Serbs liked us for getting involved in the Balkans war, the last one I talked to thinks we are wrong for defending ourselves from the radical muslims though; even though the day I talked to him he had just come back from a funeral for several members of his family that had been found in a mass grave in Srebrenica, go figure. We helped out muslims effected by the tsunami without any regard for re-payment or for the safety of our personnel in areas they could have easily been over whelmed by sheer force of numbers & killed or taken hostage.
It seems to me the rest of the world forgets the good we do & that we care about them; but we also care about ourselves too.
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batfink.. You need to read about the western American indians. We played by their rules. The ones who got screwed were the Eastern ones before there was a United States of America.
I agree with brenden that we are teetering.. that we are selling out the founders to the pressure of overpopulation and the temptation to tell everyone what to do.. to micro manage... to nanny... and... more ominous.. to, build up the police state and the power of the police state. How long before you can be imprisoned for not wearing your seatbelt or eating in your car? How long before, like japan... we have no need for warrants or knocking on peoples doors before the police enter? How soon military or police roadblocks?
lazs
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Al Jazzeerah is now reporting that Saddam's last meal request (which wasn't honored) of Pan Fried Penguin Medallions w/Pepper Encrusted Kangaroo Liver on bed of Hymalayan Lemon Grass was actually a delaying tactic scheme hatched by Saddam's daughter Raghed. was anyone able to confirm this? and why didn't the Iraqi government make an attempt to fufil this request or at the very least, find reasonable substitutions?
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Al Jazzeerah is now reporting that Saddam's last meal request (which wasn't honored) of Pan Fried Penguin Medallions w/Pepper Encrusted Kangaroo Liver on bed of Hymalayan Lemon Grass was actually a delaying tactic scheme hatched by Saddam's daughter Raghed?
And I thought that Dorcas Dingus was an unfortunate name.
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SADAM'S video taken by me!
This should be proof enough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqty3ZEcvHc
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brenjen, im glad you took the compliment as i intended it, and yes i agree that the most of the world fails to see the great and decent actions of the most powerfull of nations. we unfortunately seem to concentrate of the bad bits more than the good.
lazs, i admit i am rather gnorant about the difference between the many native indians and the history that surrounds them and the white settlers, i will endevour to read up and learn something.
as for the USA losing its grasp on reality, i think you guys have a good 200 years of room to mess around in before you even come close to being as screwed up as the rest of the world, especially the more powerfull european nations that have screwed up and showed poor form many times over thousands of years.
English history is commonly assumed to have started in 54BC, as the Romans landed for the first time and started to document the goings on of the many european tribes and races that had tried to call the little island thier kingdom. since then it has been more or less a downhill slope, imo.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
as for the USA losing its grasp on reality, i think you guys have a good 200 years of room to mess around in before you even come close to being as screwed up as the rest of the world, especially the more powerfull european nations that have screwed up and showed poor form many times over thousands of years.
Unfortunately, things change and progress much faster today than they ever did in the past. A single screw up today will not only be televised throughout the civilized world within minutes, but the subsequent chain of events will unfold with equal speed, which can lead to things spiraling out of control pretty quickly. To make things worse, with modern communication and documentation, people tend to get very angry, very quickly. Ironically, the only thing that hasn't accelerated to the speed of light, it seems, is humanity's inclination to forget old grudges.
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Like the King of Pop once lamented: We are Teh WOrld.......
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profound neubob, good post, i stand corrected.