Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Halo on January 02, 2007, 11:30:39 PM
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Granted all films have messages of one sort or another, but are there any you've watched that make you feel counterculture or against the majority opinion?
The main film that makes me feel that way is Lion King. Had to see it because the grandkids wanted to. Contrary to majority adulation, I thought Lion King emphasized obsolete monarchial servility. The film was void of aspiration since lionhood/alpha/leader was achievable only by birth, not effort or merit.
Hyenas were stereotyped villains, the usual suspects were clowns, and even elephants, rhinos, hippos, and buffalo were depicted as bowing down and getting all excited about the birth of ... another arrogant Lion King cub to grow up and boss them around.
Bow down my posterior. Grab the torches and head for the castle gates. Oops, wrong film, but same idea. Some monsters are pretty, but they're still monsters. Admit it, weren't you rooting just a little bit for the hyenas?
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Go watch Ghost in the Shell......aim is more for adults than kids.
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ANY Disney film has layers upon layers of subliminal social programming. I'm more of a Cowboy Bebop fan.
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On that note - goto video.google.com Type in Exosquad. If that isn't an adult aimed cartoon you'll never find 1.
I'll link you an episode: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8410067548612142916&q=exosquad
This is a particularly interesting one: The short version is the CV fleet was off fighting 1 group, and another group decided to backdoor earth. There was a mutiny, and the Admiral is in the brig - with the mutineer crew going full bore toward earth to try and stave off the attack. Their fleet gets mauled by 2 of the other fleets - bad things happen.
Key points: Bad guy is akin to Hitler, lotta WW2 type references
Worth watching.
Wolf
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Princess Mononoke (http://www.animecritic.com/mononoke/anr-mononoke.html)
I don't feel like writing an essay on this... but pro environmentalists would love this film:D :cool:
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These guys .... The Chubb chubbs (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6959619007879176919&q=the+chubb+chubbs&hl=en) there's gotta be sublimial messaging here :D
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the cartoons
http://www.k4.dion.ne.jp/~suppon/
have hypnotized me
:noid :noid :noid :noid :noid :noid :aok :aok :cool:
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Interesting selections. Innocence and goodness triumphing in the Chubbchubbs has to be a favorite.
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"WTF is an aluminum falcon????"
:lol
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Which Disney film is it where there's a teenage boy, parentless and living by his own wits outside of society's rules, who has a cocky grin and boy-band hair, who uses something in a skateboard-fashion to escape from the bumbling authorities and impress the virginal girl?
Which film was that? :rolleyes:
I don't know about subliminal messaging, but there certainly is a formula being followed.
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"Granted all films have messages of one sort or another, but are there any you've watched that make you feel counterculture or against the majority opinion?"
Well, there's Ralph Bakshi's "Fritz the Cat" (1972), but I imagine that it was in sync with the opinion of the majority of people who saw the film (although not society as a whole). The other obvious example is "Watership Down" (1978), which is a big metaphor for the persecution of Jewish people and the eventual founding of Israel.
Robert Zemeckis' "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" (1988) made me want to perform trangressive acts with Jessica Rabbit - acts that, if they were to be filmed and broadcast during pre-watershed television, would be distasteful to society as a whole and therefore against the majority opinion. And I was not alone in my lust for this unattainable woman.
The animated version of George Orwell's "Animal Farm" (1954) strikes me as having a deeper message but I just can't quite put my finger on it. There must have been at least one animated version of "Gulliver's Travels", which is another satire dressed up as a kid's story.
Shin and Friedman's classic "Transformers: The Movie" (1986) is perhaps the most subversive of all; a reworking of Mussolini's rise to power with an openly pro-fascist message that went right over the heads of the contemporary audience.
"Which Disney film is it where there's a teenage boy, parentless and living by his own wits outside of society's rules"
I read this as pantless. Which is even ruder in Britain, where pants are not the pants you know. Perhaps I am still thinking of Jessica Rabbit.
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Jessica Rabbit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy5THitqPBw)
Woooo hoooo .... (Insert catcalls here)
Nothing sublimial here :D
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Apeking I think Animal Farm was essentially a critique of Communism or perhaps Fascism. The animated version is essentially the same except for that the good guys win. The underlying message I suppose is that freedom will always win in the end. Which may or may not be true.
Gulliver's travels is a satire of the scene in Europe at the time and was not a children's book. I don't remember an animated version but I suspect it would have concentrated on Gulliver's adventures in Lilliput and the underlying message was lost.
But as for Halo's original point. The Lion King may have emphasized obsolete monarchial servility.
But imagined how silly it would be if it was called the 'The democratically elected Lion president' or these days the more PC 'The democratically elected Lioness president'.
;)
But you are right in one sense. If you have to watch kid's stuff, you might as well regard it with a critical adult eye. At least then you will get something from it.
Now I wonder what the underlying message in 'Toy Story' is?
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http://www.illwillpress.com has got to have some underlying message ;)
be sure to go to "toons" and watch some of the archived ones
:rofl
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Originally posted by rpm
ANY Disney film has layers upon layers of subliminal social programming. I'm more of a Cowboy Bebop fan.
Robin Hood. "Stealing from the rich to give to the poor." If that's not social engineering, I don't know what is.
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
Jessica Rabbit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy5THitqPBw)
Woooo hoooo .... (Insert catcalls here)
Nothing sublimial here :D
Never realized Roger Rabbit had other cartoons made with baby huey. Great stuff - especially when baby huey ends up in the bull pen and grabs the dudes balls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVc2mX7iE38
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if you have ever seen 'Bromwell High' it would be a result seeing as no one i have asked has even heard of it.
one of the best cartoons of all time, makes family guy or simpsons seem like a shody 2-bit production.
the sumbliminal messages go on throughout each episode, some blatant, some genius.
this cartoon is most definitely not for kids, and i highly recomend you watch it.
Bromwell High (http://www.toonhound.com/bromwell.htm)
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laser... I had a different take on robin hood.
I saw it as taking back from the government and giving back to the people.
lazs
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No, you think they say government, but they don't. They say rich. Hell, being rich is inherently seen as evil these days.
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I do not remember the cartoon, but 10 years ago or so, there was a big flair up about some animators placing something subliminal in it, and they apparently did not do it corectly, and it was almost blatant. Anyone remember which it was?
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laser...In the case of "robin hood"... weren't "the rich" simply nobles who got their wealth from charging extremely high tax rates and therefore dragging the population into poverty?
sorry to ruin one of your best soundbites tho.
lazs
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They would have you believe that, but they really weren't.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
I do not remember the cartoon, but 10 years ago or so, there was a big flair up about some animators placing something subliminal in it, and they apparently did not do it corectly, and it was almost blatant. Anyone remember which it was?
In the Lion King, there is a dustcloud that forms the letters S-F-X, which was a nod to the special effects team that worked on that segment. It was widely misinterpreted as S-E-X. :)
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I dunno. I have never been able to go to a movie and watch it from a political perspective. I thought movies were all about entertainment. If the movie is fun, then I like it. If it is depressing, then I hate it.
I think the Lion King is great entertainment and it takes from the actual structure of the animal kingdom. In the wild, the lion is top dog on the food chain. But that aside, I really enjoyed the characters and the premise of the story. Well told. Pretty entertaining.
So I guess the underlying message concept is lost on me. I dunt get it.
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Media by their nature inform and/or entertain, usually a combination of the two. Hard to have one without the other.
The lion has good PR as king of the beasts, but would have a tough time one on one against an elephant, rhino, hippo, crocodille, tiger, cape buffalo, grizzly bear, and several others. True, not all those are in the usual lion realm, but many are.
And naturally, like hyenas, lions are more effective hunting in packs, and that's usually done by all the females in the polygamous pride. Usually the prey is a meaty baby of a toothless species. Predators normally don't fight each other because even the winner might sustain too much damage.
Occasionally turf wars are inevitable, and then the pack fights are interesting too, somewhat like West Side Story. When their alpha male is away, female lions sometimes have a tough time when too many hyenas, led by a female (!), gang up on them. Apparently the larger male lion eventually often returns from his wider roaming and crunches the hyena's female leader.
Gotta be a lot of lessons in that, but I just enjoy the ebb and flow and heroics on the Documentary channel. For us lucky humans at the top of the food chain, that's entertainment, and a lot of information too.
In The Lion King, Disney is just making money on the usual convenient stereotypes. But I think adults are obligated to point out to kids whenever the entertainment and "suspension of disbelief" (to quote some famous critic) need footnoting.
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wanna talk about stereotypes? Re-watch Cinderella:p
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Speaking of Robin Hood ...
i swear i hear this when trolling AH (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4154434815024139884&q=men+in+tights) :noid
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Great trolling theme song, Roscoroo. :lol
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Hmmmm:
Had one of the regular Japanimation movies on the second of the national channels here last eve - at the end of WWII a middle-school student struggles to prevent his 3 year-old sister from starving.
Didn't watch much, for obvious reasons.
The most blatant crud for kids which I've seen recently is "Happy Feet" - locally-produced animated effort about penguins.
My little daughter liked it well enough, which was the main point, and is still too young to have tuned into the political crud. But as political crud goes, gawd it was crass.
I could almost here the marketing types sitting around a table saying "Yeah, yeah, we need a 'just be yourself' theme in this part." "And here, we could stick in a swipe at organised religion." "Oh, and of course we'll have some nice easy solutions for the environmental theme. Yeah yeah, and a strong female character opposite a simple-minded Dad."
I was almost forced to shoot myself, as I'm sure the creative guys were. Toy Story was an actual story - Happy Feet is some clever animation and that's it.
If you have to go, bring a sick bag.
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Originally posted by rpm
ANY Disney film has layers upon layers of subliminal social programming. I'm more of a Cowboy Bebop fan.
Cowboy Bebop??
:confused: