Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rabbidrabbit on January 03, 2007, 12:12:26 PM
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OK,
Is there anything good for putting a razor edge on my kitchen knives? I use a hone to refresh the edge but it would be nice to have something that quickly and easily reforms the edge back. I know I could use a stone but is there something else quick and easy to zip them through? I realized the sharp that I normally keep does not equal the uber sharp that my news ones came with.
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the sharpest of brand new knifes for cookery are almost certainly crafted by machines.
to achive this you will need to practice the tech regularly.
there is no gizmo or gadget that can rival a good wet stone and a good tech, imo, although some fancy gizmos do give you a sharp knife with little to no effort.
i use the stone slab foundation of my front door step when i have nothing else.
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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
OK,
Is there anything good for putting a razor edge on my kitchen knives? I use a hone to refresh the edge but it would be nice to have something that quickly and easily reforms the edge back. I know I could use a stone but is there something else quick and easy to zip them through? I realized the sharp that I normally keep does not equal the uber sharp that my news ones came with.
A waterstone will work, along with ceramic crock sticks and even a diamond embedded honing stone. Most 'automatic' sharpeners I've tried do a poor job at best. Here is a link to a sharpening system that seems credible:
http://www.edgeproinc.com/
I don't own that system, but have nearly spent as much on waterstones. I know of nothing that will 'quickly and easy' zip through sharpening a knife. It seems like someone would have invented a 'quick and easy' knife sharpening system by now, but I've never found it. Then again, the spring loaded mouse trap with peanut butter works pretty well.
Maybe you can take your knives to a shop and have them sharpened? I sharpen my own, but it's not really something to do unless you like that sort of thing. A smooth sharp edge on a kitchen knife is not so easy to achive and should be used carefully, not for cutting bones, frozen food, or plastic packaging, but only for slicing soft food. Also, if you use a wood cutting block along with ceramic crock sticks then you can go years without having to resharpen the knife. While that doesn't help now, it's something to consider.
All in all, I believe the answer is no.
Regards,
Malta
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Get a Lansky knife sharpening kit with the diamond stones. It will not only put a razor edge on a knife, it will put an edge that looks better than the factory edge.
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i have a very old Oster electric sharpener with two counter rotating wheels, it make your knives cut like they were on a TV infomercial.
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Back in the day, while I still needed a combat knife to be sharpened regularly, we would use an Arkansas stone to take any serious dullness from the edge. Usually used a light oil for this. Then we "honed" the edge to a razor sharpness with what is now called a sharpening steel. You can probably still purchase then at any reputable knife shop. I'm not blowing smoke here, when we got finished, you could literally shave the hair off your arm with the edge. But be carefull afterward, any slippage and you could potentially loose a digit. :aok
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I sharpen all my hunting and kitchen knives with a sharping gizmo I bought at the hardware store about 4-5 years ago. Plastic thing, says "Smith's" on it, yellow safety handle, 2 small replaceable "flints" held at an angle in it. 25-50 quick licks through it and I can shave with it (and yes, I test it by running it lightly across the back of my hands and watching the hair fly.)...the secret is to not let your knives get dull ;) Everytime I use one of my hunting knives I re-hone it. As long as you have a good edge to start with this bugger will sharpen a knife to a razor edge in less than 5 minutes. Best $2 I ever spent!
Here we go...this be it (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5764) . Honest, this thing works!
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I like to use ceramic for sharpening or diamond. I have the diamond equivalent of a butcher's steel, about the same length and about 3/4 of an inch wide. It isn't flat, it's rounded on both sides. I use this to get the knife started.
After I get the knife reasonably sharp with the diamond rod I use a LanskyŽ Turn-Box Crock Stick Knife Sharpener. You can find one here:
Lansky (http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=60915&hvarTarget=search)
They are cheaper at Academy Sports. I get a near razor sharp edge with this Crock stick knife sharpener. I can and do maintain a razor edge on my pocket knife with it but for kitchen use I prefer to get it almost razor sharp and I sharpen the knife everytime I use it. Seems some items cut easier if the edge isn't totaly smooth.
Mark
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Lansky
This kit works well. Just be carefull to not bend the rods. (http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=41168&hvarDept=400&hvarClassCode=13&hvarSubCode=6&hvarTarget=browse&cmid=PP_P0_1&cmCat=CROSSSELL)
Another company makes one just like it, with fixed rods, but I have never tried it.
I have some diamond ones that you have to be carefull of the angle since its all by hand, but I can get a knife sharp enough to shave the hair of your arm with them.
The lansky setup works better since it keeps the angle right for you.
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I use a system very similar to the Lanski. It has 3 grades of stones and can bring a rather dull blade to razor edge. It takes a bit of practice to get the technique but it is quick once you get the hang of it.
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This one. (http://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Tri-Angle-Sharpmaker-Kit-Medium/dp/B0001WOV5M/sr=8-1/qid=1167872778/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-1101331-6967600?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods)
Had one for over 25 years, works great.
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I have mastered the art of shaveable knives, with a simple trick. Even though Y'all are losers, I'll part with this trick, because I kind of like you guys.
Gatco systems are better then lanskies: http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=GA10004 but they still require practice, knowledge and common sense. For example, you work with your rougher stones more, and thus grind them down. But the problem comes when you switch to finer grit stones. You don't use these as much, so they are no worn down. If you use them the exact same way you will not be able to touch the edge because the angles of attack are minutely different.
The trick is to hold the stone so that the guide rod is at the bottom of the guide when you use coarser grits, and you have the guide rod at the top the guide with finer grits. Basically, if the edge is facing you, push down on the front for coarse, lift up for fine.
The next trick is rather simple, but incredibly powerful. Get yourself a buffing wheel to put on a spinning grind stone. Put buffing compound on it. Then buff down the edge. If you want, you can move into finer buffing compounds.
Voila! You now have a knife edge that can push cut. That means it can cut just by pushing it, not by slicing. This is very difficult to obtain.
If you don't have a grinding wheel set up, you can use a dremel. It's a little bit more difficult, but still doable.
It's a misnomer, but your standard kitchen steel:
(http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/sharpen/images/p10.jpg)
IS NOT FOR SHARPENING. During the standard use of a knife, especially one with an extremely sharp edge, the edge point can drift or start to curl to one side or the other. The steel simply pushes the edge point back on center. To use it, lightly go over the edge pulling away from the edge. LIGHTLY.
Never go towards the edge. If you even have a remotely sharp edge, the edge will bite into the steel, and either break or dull.
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Toad that's the same system I have. It works great even on serated edges.
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I dissagree with Lasersailer
Sharpening Steels work great provided the knife isnt duller then a butter knife to begin with.
and the DO actually sharpen and not simply bend edges back in place
(http://www.ehow.com/images/ehows/steps/sharpknives1_L.jpg)
If the knife is super dull already I'd start with a stone and finish it to a fine edge with a steel just as CpMorgan discribes.
About the only thing I find they dont work real well for is pocket style buck knifes and such. They are simply too small and your better off with a very fine stone
But for Kitchen style carving knives they work great
Has for me for the last 35 years anyway
I can consistantly give you Deli thin sliced meat sharpening them that way.
Which is why I always get to carve and slice whatever gets cooked at family gatherings LOL
Sharp enough for ya?
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Originally posted by Maverick
Toad that's the same system I have. It works great even on serated edges.
serated edge isnt a knife
Its a Saw LOL
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Yup, I've never had luck with sharpening serrated knives. But then again, I don't use serrated knives. They tear what they are cutting. If you're any good with a whetstone, and most men should be, you won't ever need to use a serrated knife.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Yup, I've never had luck with sharpening serrated knives. But then again, I don't use serrated knives. They tear what they are cutting. If you're any good with a whetstone, and most men should be, you won't ever need to use a serrated knife.
I'll drink with you to that one
(http://www.yuengling.com/images/beers_black_tan.jpg)
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I dissagree with Lasersailer
Sharpening Steels work great provided the knife isnt duller then a butter knife to begin with.
and the DO actually sharpen and not simply bend edges back in place
(http://www.ehow.com/images/ehows/steps/sharpknives1_L.jpg)
If the knife is super dull already I'd start with a stone and finish it to a fine edge with a steel just as CpMorgan discribes.
About the only thing I find they dont work real well for is pocket style buck knifes and such. They are simply too small and your better off with a very fine stone
But for Kitchen style carving knives they work great
Has for me for the last 35 years anyway
I can consistantly give you Deli thin sliced meat sharpening them that way.
Which is why I always get to carve and slice whatever gets cooked at family gatherings LOL
Sharp enough for ya?
The true sign of a master sharpener is patches of hair missing. One of the easiest ways to test how sharp your knives are is to test how effortlessly they can shave hair.
Deli thin slicing is easy to obtain. I can get there by freehand on the 4 dollar Sears whetstone I purchased. But unless you use my buffing trick, you really won't extend into the "Holy **** that's sharp" category.
Some people have misused steel so much that they began to make sharpeners out of them. But that doesn't change how they should be used and how they are best used. Steel is for maintaining sharpness, not creating it.
But at least you're drinking good beer.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
The true sign of a master sharpener is patches of hair missing. One of the easiest ways to test how sharp your knives are is to test how effortlessly they can shave hair.
Deli thin slicing is easy to obtain. I can get there by freehand on the 4 dollar Sears whetstone I purchased. But unless you use my buffing trick, you really won't extend into the "Holy **** that's sharp" category.
Some people have misused steel so much that they began to make sharpeners out of them. But that doesn't change how they should be used and how they are best used. Steel is for maintaining sharpness, not creating it.
But at least you're drinking good beer.
Tell ya what.
C'mere and I''ll shave ya bald with my knives :D
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That's ok, I've already mangled myself with knives enough for one night. Ironically, I'm bleeding from 3 spots in one toe.
Not seriously, but it's a pain in the bellybutton trying to not bleed on everything.
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Don't sharpen your knives in your bellybutton with your toes and it shouldn't be a problem.
:p
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Years ago I worked in a slaughter house (Farmland Foods) and we used butchers steels to maintain the sharpness of our knives. Once I got the hang of it, I could use the same knife for 10 hours straight.
During the standard use of a knife, especially one with an extremely sharp edge, the edge point can drift or start to curl to one side or the other. The steel simply pushes the edge point back on center. To use it, lightly go over the edge pulling away from the edge. LIGHTLY.
Never go towards the edge. If you even have a remotely sharp edge, the edge will bite into the steel, and either break or dull.
In my experience, that is incorrect. We were taught at farmland to go towards the edge, not away from it. It's all in the angle of the blade in relation to the steel. And that angle MUST remain constant each time you use the steel.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
It's a misnomer, but your standard kitchen steel:
(http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/sharpen/images/p10.jpg)
IS NOT FOR SHARPENING. During the standard use of a knife, especially one with an extremely sharp edge, the edge point can drift or start to curl to one side or the other. The steel simply pushes the edge point back on center. To use it, lightly go over the edge pulling away from the edge. LIGHTLY.
Never go towards the edge. If you even have a remotely sharp edge, the edge will bite into the steel, and either break or dull.
Lasersailor184 is correct here. If you re-read my post, I never said the steel was for sharpening. It is for "finishing the edge to a razor sharpness". In actuality, it IS straightening the edge on a microscopic level. Whet stones are fine for taking out rough gouges or imperfections in the edge. But to obtain an edge that is "razor sharp" and will STAY razor sharp you must use a steel as a finishing proceedure. If you examine the edge under a microscope, you will see tiny waves in the edge that contribute to the lack of sharpness. To prove it to yourself, take a realtively sharp blade and LIGHTLY drag it across your fingernail. You will feel sections that drag and sections that slip. The sections that are "slipping" haven't been sharpened correctly or are "rolled over". The sharpening steel is used to "fine tune" the edge so it is sharp all the way across. Once you have this edge perfected, then a daily application of a steel will maintain the edge razor sharp. If the edge gets damaged or dinged, you are going to have to start over with the stones as before.
But saying that, Elfie isn't wrong either. Daily maintenance of a working blade is important. Once the edge is sharpened to a keen edge, it will maintain it's edge unless it encounters an object that destroys the "fine tune" (i.e. bone, grisle) Usually a few swipes with a steel will alighn the edge back to it's original position. I know it all sounds kinda unusual, but if you've ever seen the edge of a sharp knife under a microscope, you will see what I'm referring to. Combat teaches you SO many interesting things.
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Originally posted by Brenjen
Get a Lansky knife sharpening kit with the diamond stones. It will not only put a razor edge on a knife, it will put an edge that looks better than the factory edge.
The Lansky (and Gatco) operate on the same priciple as the edgepro. The difference is in the length of blade which can be sharpened. The former are great for pocket knives and blades 5" or less, but for an 8" chef's knife repositioning is required.
Not that you can't use one (I have), but you sharpen the knife differently each time because of having to reposition the guide. Also, once you have a portion 'razor sharp', its not hard to cut yourself tinkering with moving that guide. The edgepro's claim to fame, imo, is that it can sharpen an eight or 10 inch kitchen knife without repositioning. Be nice if they made something like that for swords.
As a kid I bought a Lo-Ray sharpener at a gun show for pocket knives. It's the same as a Lansky or Gatco but has lasted over 30 years. I think Lansky bought out Lo-Ray, or the patent expired. I've given the Lansky sharpener kits for xmas before, which I though was a very nice gift.
As a bit of trivia, having a knife 'razor sharp' is a common term, but most knives are not as sharp as a razor. I guess the the idea of shaving the hairs on your arm is where that description comes from. A razor, on the other hand can cut a free hair by touching it to the blade. A sharp razor can cut a free thin hair from your head. I found this out when learning to sharpen and shave with a straight razor.
The idea behind using a steel, or the ceramic crock sticks is to reposition the edge, much like stropping a straight razor. Neither device changes the edge profile or removes much metal (if any). In fact, a leather strop could be used for the same purpose except it's not so convenient around the kitchen and takes slightly more skill to keep from cutting it to pieces. Also, the knife is drawn on the leather away from the edge for obvious reasons.
Part of the degree of sharpness, and how long it stays sharp, is the degree of edge finish smoothness. Buffing and polishing is one way to get an edge to last longer. A straight razor has an extremely high degree of smoothness (< 1 micron) while a kitchen knife may be 20-200 microns. A sharp smooth edge will remain sharp longer and can easily be 'touched up', but it's also easier to damage the edge. That's where knowing how to use the knife is important to not damage the edge.
As an aside, something like a hatchet or an axe which is normally sharpened with a file will stay sharp longer if the edge is smooth and polished. That's typically not done, but I've used a Lansky sharpener thru the finest stone on a hatchet with good results. However, the less expensive hand tools generally have soft steel and dull quickly.
One critical part of knife sharpening not mentioned is the type of steel used. A steel with Rockwell hardness C scale (Rc) less than 40 will not hold an edge long. However, it will be easy to sharpen. Personally, I don't keep knives made of soft steel because they constantly require resharpening.
Regards,
Malta
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For getting the angle back on abused or really dull knives I use a whetstone.. I do it a little different in that I hold the knife fixed and move the stone.
For everything else... Marbles makes a tiny little handheld sharpener that is nothing more than two ceramic pieces at the correct angle. the whole thing is no more than 4" long by about an inch high. Pull the blade through it a few times and it is sharp.. dull knives or very tough steel may take as many as 10 passes but it does the job every time.
cost is about $25... I got one for all my relatives and girlfriends who seem to have me sharpen their knives whenever I am there anyway.
Oh yeah... it really makes no difference how big the knife is with the Marbles since you are drawing the knife through it..
lazs
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Originally posted by Elfie
In my experience, that is incorrect. We were taught at farmland to go towards the edge, not away from it. It's all in the angle of the blade in relation to the steel. And that angle MUST remain constant each time you use the steel.
The problem is that if you move towards the edge, the edge can bite into the steel. Knife steel is harder then the rods. When it bites, it nearly always breaks, bends or chips.
But I seriously implore all of you to try the buffing trick of mine. Everyone thinks that their knives are sharp, but just try this trick. It'll take your knives to a whole nother level.
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What I'm looking for is something that can go in the kitchen next to the knifes. I have a selection of higher end knifes and need something beyond the steel. I could use a stone but the wife would just mess up the edges. She would also not use sticks so what about this?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BTPTFG/ref=pd_kar_gw_1/105-4344613-4684465
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Used one. It didn't work very well. In fact, I bought one for my mother. It now sits in a cabinet (wasn't cheap either). Others may have had better luck, but I was disappointed.
Crock sticks and a hardware store sharpening stone with a handle (see link) seem to work ok where low carbon kitchen knives are used with plastic cutting boards.
http://hand-tools.hardwarestore.com/67-419-sharpening-stones/kitchen-sharpening-stone-614472.aspx
Regards,
Malta
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Idiot proof and does a good job.
http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=661128
shamus
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Nothing is idiot proof when it comes to the handling of knives.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Nothing is idiot proof when it comes to the handling of knives.
LOL.....or O'Club posters :rofl
Edit: as far as hair shaving razor sharp, all I use is my Lansky kit with addtl. med. fine & x-tra fine diaomond stones & when I'm through a course of that I use a leather strop to de-bur the edge. It'll not only shave your arm hair, but you face as well (caution! Only attempt face shaving sober & after hot washing & warm lathering or you will get an ouchy)
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When I was in the Coast Guard, our CWO required all of us deck apes to carry diamond sharpeners. There simply is no other device that can put a razor edge on a knife in seconds when it counts. I still have that sharpener 20 years later and it still puts an edge on in seconds.
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Jane Fonda....
Mac