Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: LtTalon on January 03, 2007, 03:23:28 PM
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I have been given the perfect gift (for me). I was told to pick out the most ideal controller I would like to have and it would be purchased for me. I am not comfortable with purchasing a controller over the Internet. I don't want to buy something only to find that it fails me at a critical moment. Most of you know I need all the help I can get. So I am asking you for advice. Help me make this a great decision?
Thanks
LtTalon
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I currently have a X-45 Saitek, soon i hope to replace that with the X-52. Thats what I would recommend.
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X-52 from Saitek
BTW do not forget about the pedals!!! everyone needs pedals! :)
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MSSPP2!:aok
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X52 from bestbuy with the extra warrenty option.
Lambo
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CH products sticks.
http://www.chproducts.com/retail_flash/index.html
be mindful the "fighterstick pro" is not better than the fighterstick, it is actually a scaled back version.
if you do get a stick there, also, there are no twisty sticks, so you will need the pro pedals. and also a throttle...
total direct from them: $449.85
thats a nice offer from whoever is buying these.
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Originally posted by nexus69
X-52 from Saitek
BTW do not forget about the pedals!!! everyone needs pedals! :)
definitly the pedals. I have CH usb pedals with my x-45, works great. when they die I'll get the saitek pedals..
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I use the CH fighter stick, an X-52 throttle & CH peds. I love the X-52 throttle, but the X-52 stick, though great when I first got it, it picked up some stick drift & began to stutter. By stutter I mean the twisty would hang & release & hang & release several times a second like rubbing a freshly washed hand on a rubber ball. It felt like the rubber O-ring was dry or something, so I took it apart & used white lithium grease on the parts I could see that moved & it didn't help at all. I took the stick apart again to see if I could remedy it, thought I might have had it & when I put the stick back together the fine wires that are soldered to the tiny circuit board broke loose & were so small I couldn't get them to stay soldered.
It wouldn't have been that big of a deal to leave it with that little stutter but it made it very difficult to make small corrections & my aim suffered. And I'm sort of a perfection freak with my equipment, one little thing wrong & I fix it or destroy it trying.
I don't know about the CH throttle, I've never used one but the X-52 throttle is an excellent addition the the CH stick.
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I went from the old X36, then to the X52, then back to the X45 Saitek's. I liked the X52, but it felt a bit 'soft' to me. The X45 felt a little more comfortable to me since that one uses a pretty beefy spring system that responds better to deliberate inputs.
They aren't being made any more as far as I know, but there's many of them still for sale in warehouses accross the globe.
I hated the twisty stick when I had it. Much more used to a rocker switch to control rudders than a twist stick. I'm looking forward to getting the Saitek pedals...maybe I'll groundloop my Corsair a bit less with toebrakes easy to use rather than diving for the keyboard as my plane starts that little move...
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Originally posted by Brenjen
I use the CH fighter stick, an X-52 throttle & CH peds.
thought I was the only one...
even though i recommended the ch throttle, i personally use an x45 throttle. only reason? the rotary trim knobs. if CH made one like thrustmasters with the trim knobs, I'd get it.
I didn't recommend that setup to the gentleman because it would involve buying 2 sticks, along with the pedals (although overall cheaper)
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There is only one controller ... CH
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Originally posted by Warspawn
I went from the old X36, then to the X52, then back to the X45 Saitek's. I liked the X52, but it felt a bit 'soft' to me. The X45 felt a little more comfortable to me since the uses a pretty beefy spring system that responds better to deliberate inputs.
They aren't being made any more as far as I know, but there's many of them still for sale in warehouses accross the globe.
I hated the twisty stick when I had it. Much more used to a rocker switch to control rudders than a twist stick. I'm looking forward to getting the Saitek pedals...maybe I'll groundloop my Corsair a bit less with toebrakes easy to use rather than diving for the keyboard as my plane starts that little move...
IMHO...X45!!! I hate twisty sticks, too.
I was able to procure a used X45 and saved my old one for parts.
I also have CH pedals and a stick, but don't think either of these will see use anytime soon. The X45 is my favorite by far. Think I'm going to buy all the used ones on Ebay :D
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Originally posted by SkyRock
MSSPP2!:aok
or MSSFFB2
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Dont let anyone lead you astray if you have the duckets CH PRODUCTS are the only choice they will be the last best control set you ever have to buy.
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CH Products is the way to go. I am still using the analog CH pedals I bought in '97 - no stutters, spikes or weirdness. I wish I still had my CH Fighterstick.
asw
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Originally posted by icemaw
Dont let anyone lead you astray if you have the duckets CH PRODUCTS are the only choice they will be the last best control set you ever have to buy.
Key words in red there. I've never owned CH products, but I have ALWAYS heard they are THE top of the line. However, I've never been able to afford one. I've owned Saitek, Thrustmaster (although never a Cougar), Logitech (which are the worst POS out there) and Microsoft sticks. Of those the only brand I've ever bought more than once was Microsoft. So, unless you can justify to yourself spending $500 on stick, throttle and pedals, I would recommend Microsoft. Either Microsoft Sidewinder Precision Pro 2 or Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2. The kicker is Microsoft doesn't either stick anymore so you'll have to get from Ebay,amazon, etc.etc.
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CH products sticks.
"fighterstick pro" is not better than the fighterstick usb, it is actually a scaled back version.
if you do get a stick there, also, there are no twisty sticks, so you will need the pro pedals. and also a throttle...
total direct from them: $449.85 retail
but you can get each piece for $89.99 each X3 = $270.00 total @ most online discount stores.
http://www.chproducts.com/retail_flash/index.html (http://www.chproducts.com/retail_flash/index.html)
The proper setup is:
1. Ch fighterstick USB
2. Ch Pro Throttle
3. Ch Pro Predals
The Ch mapping software is capable of programming almost all AHII functions to the controllers so that you never have to touch the keyboard during game play. All settings are made through the Ch software NOT AHII settings. It's cool!
I have the maps that do this. Contact me if you want them.
I have 4 broken Saitek X45s and 2 broken X52s in a box in my garage.
:) Am happy now:)
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CH
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CH is far and away the best. My X-52 felt like a POS once the CH gear arived. Not trying to offend anyone, just being honest.
Dave
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CH is the best anywhere... My current rig is an analog rig... It has lasted me over 11 years now... Throttle, stick and rudder pedals... no other company builds them to last like that.
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Originally posted by LtTalon
I have been given the perfect gift (for me). I was told to pick out the most ideal controller I would like to have and it would be purchased for me. I am not comfortable with purchasing a controller over the Internet. I don't want to buy something only to find that it fails me at a critical moment. Most of you know I need all the help I can get. So I am asking you for advice. Help me make this a great decision?
Thanks
LtTalon
Why are you not comfortable buying something over the internet? I buy 100K worth of equipment for my company annually over the internet. It's probably safer than buying it in the store. Case in point: I bought an X52 from the local WorstBuy and it was already opened and broken. They tried to sell it to me as new. At least they didn't give me a hard time when I brought it back, but of course they didn't have another one. I got my money back and got an X52 from Newegg (which I highly recommend) with the warranty, free shipping, all for less than retail at WorstBuy. Most brick and mortar retailers don't stock the high quality stuff, just the $30 crapsticks.
That being said, if money is no object get CH, otherwise get Saitek.
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Originally posted by Dace
or MSSFFB2
I have one here, takin up space in my drawer. I loved that stick but it was too spiky on my new PC... Probably can't handle the high clock speeds.
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Microsoft Sidewinder.
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I do hear the CH stick is the best but if you're looking for the best bang for the buck it's probably the Saitek. On their website the X-52 (with throttle quadrant) is $130, the Pedals are $150 for a total of $280. I'm sure you can get them for less with online or box store discounts. It's an excellent setup even if it's not up to CH standards.
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My MS sidewinder was a good stick & I used it for a year in AHII, went X-52 for three or four months before it crapped out. I would go with a CH or if you like twisty sticks an X-52, if you like add ons & tinkering & want to make a stick as perfect as one can get go with a thrustmaster Cougar with the hall effect sensors & a cool new gimble, pricey but B.A. from what I've heard from people who own them.
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TM Cougar with IJ's Uber-2NXT mod and hall sensors...best stick you can get for $1,000.00:O
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Ok, i don't wanna offend anyone here, but if you have the money, GET THE FULL CH SETUP. Don't waste your time with anything else! CH stuff is the best and will last forever. Its solid and doesn't feel cheesy like most other sticks. I've tried alot of sticks over the years and I always come back to CH.
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Another vote here for CH Products. I have CH stick and pedals and love them. Been using CH Products sticks for about 15 years.
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for xmas I got CH stick and pedals and I can safely they feel like they are built to last.
Used Saitek for the past 4 years or so and the sticks last for about 2 or so years before falling apart which isnt bad for the price difference.
I think not having the twisty option and using pedals must make a difference in durability. Usually the first thing to start "spiking" is the twist rudder.
If you accept the fact that your an addict and you will be here for life like many others including myself get CH.
Bruv
~S~
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I'll vote for Thrustmaster Cougar + CH Pedals :)
Oh, and don't forget the TrackIR! I thought it was almost like cheating or somekind of magic when using it for the first time. It's really really great :cool:
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Originally posted by Nomak
CH is far and away the best. My X-52 felt like a POS once the CH gear arived. Not trying to offend anyone, just being honest.
Dave
Absolutely right. If you are serious about this game, get CH. Went from the X52 to CH and there is a marked improvement in both quality and performance.
Still using the X52 throttle, works well with the CH stick.
:aok
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CH is, by far, the best choice. The quality is tops, and the precise movements that you can get out of the CH products impressed me.
I was a long time user of MSFF2 twisty and when my last one died, after a few disappointments trying to get one via e-bay, I finally knew that I had to finally make the jump to the CH family. I wasn't looking forward to the learning curve setting me back. But, I have to admit, the CH stuff has made the game more fun for me lately.
Don't be afraid to make the jump.........
btw......CH stuff ain't cheap, but the best prices that I have found for CH products was at
http://www.provantage.com
Give it a go, you'll be glad you went CH!
Rob53
The Flying Circus
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My Logitc has had a stroke and was left partly disabled. 3 buttons and 3 directions of the POV hat are not working and the rudder is not responding well in the right direction. I tried to fly with it the last few days, but it is too annoying.
Not that it was that great before that.
NEVER BUY LOGITEC
I'm considering CH Combatstick. Cheaper than fighterstick and has more than enough buttons for me. Is it not twisty? I remember they say it has 3 axis.
I still use views on the keyboard (too old a dog to learn new tricks) and I used to map rudder to the keys as well when I had my very very old analog CH flightstick. Peddals are too expensive so I might go back to keyboard if it has no twist rudder (or use one of the hats).
Anyone here use CH Combatstick?
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Originally posted by bozon
I'm considering CH Combatstick. Cheaper than fighterstick and has more than enough buttons for me. Is it not twisty? I remember they say it has 3 axis.
The third axis is a throttle (on the left side of the stick) you can remap as a rudder but it will feel very unnatural.
You can build your own pedal for less than 20$, or get the saitek at about 80 €
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X-45. I dont like the X-52 because its too lose... For me, I have always found tight is good. It gives me a feeling of true control, and even resistance on the controler. And yes, GET PEDALS!!! I wish I could afford them. They will make your game (or so I hear).
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C H 'nuff said...
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I got a X45 here (X52 is too "loose" for my tastes and I cant afford a full CH atm) and CH pedals - in the long run the rocker rudder of the X45 has a too imprecise input control due to its short range of motion.
Im very happy with my current setup and plan to replace it one by one with CH stuff (as i can afford it/as the Saitek goes out).
As for buying off the internet: Its just as safe as buying from the shop. I got both my Saitek and the Peds online.... you have warranties, you have service. And I dont know how it is in US, but here in Germany the things you get in the shop are rather limited in choice. X52 and lots of really cheap Logitech stuff.
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I have an X52 set up and the general feel is just perfect for me (I found the X45 too stiff).
I use CH USB pedals
I have a CH fighter stick somewhere but could not come to terms with the js action as it did not rotate freely (the axis are not truely concentric).
However there is no doubt that the CH product is better engineered than the Saitek and will last many years. Saitek use the same POV micro switches in the X52 as used in the X45 and these will fail over time.
Where the Saitek wins IMO is the "feel/comfort" of the stick and the sheer number of functions you can program into it.
Having said that you should not be fooled by the X52s apparant wide range of deflection from extremes of pitch to pitch or roll to roll. 30% of this range is not used. So if you seem to have 50 degrees of deflection from nuetral to full pitch you actually only have 35 degrees of usefull in game deflection.............. the range does not extend upto the stops!
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bozon I couldnt see any/much difference between the combat stick or fighterstick. Combat one still has more than enough buttons for AH and is slightly cheaper.
your correct in saying it isnt a twist stick thats why most have pedals.
What tilt describes as the axis not moving freely is that one part of the stick goes up down whilst another component goes left right. A normal stick would be a circular action. However I find this better as you have more crisper control of the plane.
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Originally posted by straffo
The third axis is a throttle (on the left side of the stick) you can remap as a rudder but it will feel very unnatural.
You can build your own pedal for less than 20$, or get the saitek at about 80 €
I wonder if I can setup the fragged logitc stick as a rudder (using its roll axis) while using a new stick for the rest. If AH can work with 2 USB sticks, I may still make some use of the old logitec. Worth some testing.
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AH work fine with multiple controller so it's possible.
With a stick in each hand you will look like an aviation pioneer :)
(I need to check but I think the early Voisin had 2 control column)
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You could modify it so it's on the floor with a "T" handle on the top & work the twisty with the your feet on the improvised "T" like a set of peds. It will work with both sticks since the program is only seeing devices. It's not looking under your desk & shaking it's E-head mumbling to itself...."this guy crazy...he really crazy; you see what that fool got goin on under there?" :D
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CH joysticks are probably the best in regards to precision & durability. But when it comes to pedals, they pale in comparison to Simpeds. Much more durable (no pots to wear out), wider spacing between the individual pedals. And more expensive, though...
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Originally posted by Lusche
CH joysticks are probably the best in regards to precision & durability. But when it comes to pedals, they pale in comparison to Simpeds. Much more durable (no pots to wear out), wider spacing between the individual pedals. And more expensive, though...
I have (had) a set of the original simpeds, they worked great for a few years then they went tits up (due to an engineering failure that was reportedly rectified on future designs). Support for them is totally non-existent, the guy who makes them is in Germany I beleive and his website contacts and all emails are blackholes if you are asking for help or even offering to pay for spare parts. I would never buy from him again and have been telling folks here and other flight-sim forums to stay away. Apparently if you speak German things are better, so YMMV.
The best stick I ever had was the F22, mine lasted about 8 years with very heavy use. I finally broke a spring and found that since they were purchased by some French company they no longer offer support or spare parts...sigh...seems to be a pattern of poor customer service from companies in the EU, at least by American standards it is poor service. We are generally used to being able to purchase parts or even have phone calls and emails returned.
Most of what you are reading here in this thread boils down to nothing more than opinion which is slanted heavily by personal preference. For example I have never liked the feel of the plastic or the weight of the handle and springs on the CH gear. But many others think that the metal handle and stiff springs of the TM gear suck...so again...YMMV. I'd suggest going to a con and checking out other folks stuff before you invest.
EDIT: Oh, and if progamability is a plus then the Cougar is definitely the best option for you, someone counted over 2,000 programmable options that can be scripted and downloaded in one config. Windows sees it as a 6-axis 28-button joystick, but some of the buttons are 3-way modifiers that can change the way all the other buttons work depending on their position. Only need for a keyboard in AH is using the radio channels.
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another one for CH gear (full CH HOTAS)
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CH again!
Six months ago I replaced my CH Gameport gear with CH USB Gear.
I only did it because to program the old gameport gear I had to do it in Windows98 on my old dual boot PC. New PC is XP only.
The Gameport gear was never a problem and still working perfectly after too many years to remember! - Spares (if you ever need them) are available to (I never needed any!). I think bangs per buck you cann't beat it because it seems to last forever! - I tried other kit before I went CH and none of it lasted.
The USB stuff is the same mechanics but with updated electronics and "traffic lights" to show which mode you are in if you go to that extreme.
Software is really good so you can use it in all sorts of games with different profiles for each as needed. You even have 3 modes available so that each switch can have three different functions! - Too much for me to remember so I still only use it in one mode!
Fighter Stick and Combat stick are very similar the only difference is that the fighter stick has some 4 way switches where a single button might be on the combat stick. Otherwise same size and feel - So go fighter stick for more options!
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Originally posted by bozon
Anyone here use CH Combatstick?
My gameport stick was the Combat and my USB gear is the Fighterstick.
As you have noted it is only the number of switches that are different. But in Flight Sims we do use a lot so I would say go that one step further if you can . - You will not regret it!
I use mine with the Pro-throttle and Pro Pedals and I could still manage a few more buttons! - I will not set them in three mode configuration as that is just too much to remember!
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I have one here, takin up space in my drawer. I loved that stick but it was too spiky on my new PC... Probably can't handle the high clock speeds.
That was the best feeling joystick I have ever had . Too bad it doesn't work with this pc and WinXP Pro sp2 , I tried everything too :( sad .
I use now all CH products .
YES I USE THE COMBAT stick , hehe , I like the one button thumb on that stick . Sure we all could use more buttons or hats :)
Buy them online , it's a "no brainer" IMO
Here's my setup
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/1007_1163579384_mvc-011s.jpg)
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Originally posted by Reynolds
X-45. I dont like the X-52 because its too lose... For me, I have always found tight is good. It gives me a feeling of true control, and even resistance on the controler. And yes, GET PEDALS!!! I wish I could afford them. They will make your game (or so I hear).
I have also stuck with the X45 for the same reason - X52 feels too "loose". I know CH is supposed to be the best, but I had a pair of CH Pro pedals that I had to send back for repair about every 6 months. Got tired of doing that and trying to use the "rocker" rudder on the X45 while I was waiting for the pedals to return, so I got a pair of the Saitek Pedals that came out recently. I love the wider spacing (about 8" wider) between the feet, and the adjustable tension. Now I have a complete Saitek set-up and really like it.
It's funny how people's experiences differ. Most of the people on here talk about CH being the Holy Grail of FLight sim gear - yet I had nothing but problems with my pedals. Many badmouth Saitek - yet mine has performed almost flawlessly (just wish my game performance matched . . .)
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My first set of CH peds (& 2nd actually) sucked monkey balls as well. I had to send them back twice for new sets. My problem with them was when the pedal was fully depressed on the left side it would fail. The rudder would just begin to shudder & fall back to center even with the pedal still fully depressed. Third time was a charm though & CH did make it right without too much fuss & customer service after the purchase is a major factor for me.
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CH Peds Gamport/USB converter and x52 throttle and JS. X52 did seem loose, but i'm use to it now. I've only had the x52 for about 6 weeks, but haven't changed calibration since I set it up and I just use AH setup to map the stick and throttle.
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I've heard the same good stuff about CH but didn't want to spend that much on a stick (just got back into online flightsims 7 months ago).
I opted for the X52 Saitek.
I don't like twisty stick rudders so I turned that function off.
I mapped the rudders to the X52 throttle instead and moved the throttle control to the small slider on the throttle control.
I'm sure it's not as nice as dedicated rudder pedals but it seems to work fine for me.
Has anyone mapped the X52 this way??
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Originally posted by pick
I've heard the same good stuff about CH but didn't want to spend that much on a stick (just got back into online flightsims 7 months ago).
I opted for the X52 Saitek.
I don't like twisty stick rudders so I turned that function off.
I mapped the rudders to the X52 throttle instead and moved the throttle control to the small slider on the throttle control.
I'm sure it's not as nice as dedicated rudder pedals but it seems to work fine for me.
Has anyone mapped the X52 this way??
Not me. Sounds kinda non-intuitive. Glad it works for ya though. I think I'm going to eventually get pedals. My twist on the 52 is squeaky, drives me crazy.
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Definently the Saitek X52, the Pro Flight Rudder Pedals also from Saitek wouldnt hurt. Upgraded from a Saitek Cyborg back in December to my X52 and the Pro Flight Rudder Peds and it was the best investment i ever made.
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Originally posted by Rash
CH Peds Gamport/USB converter and x52 throttle and JS. X52 did seem loose, but i'm use to it now. I've only had the x52 for about 6 weeks, but haven't changed calibration since I set it up and I just use AH setup to map the stick and throttle.
i can send you my Saitek X52 Config file if you wanna give that a try, Ive found that the Saitek Software is alot easier to program the stick to fit your needs. Ive got almost all of the Essential Functions on my Stick and Throttle.
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A lot of you seem to have problems with the twist on the X52, There is a LOCK on the twist so that the pedal doesnt twist and you can use pedals instead, its located at the base of the stick where it twists its a little grey slider that says R LOCK push that in and it locks the twist function, Helps alot IMO when you got pedals.
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Or you can just unmap the axis. Thanks for the tips outbreak.