Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Halo on January 04, 2007, 11:58:55 AM
-
Supposedly the original film of the fatal stingray sting to Steve Irwin has been given to the widow, and all copies have been destroyed.
If you could view it, would you watch the fatal sting?
Any special advice about the film you would give the widow if you were one of her advisers? For example:
1. Do you think she should release it for a profit to help finance his help to animals and/or his family?
2. Do you think she should release it for free as general safety education for people who approach animals in the wild?
3. Do you think she should never release it but just keep it for whatever?
4. Do you think she should destroy the film?
-
why?
-
I wouldnt watch it, and she should destroy it
-
Originally posted by Airscrew
I wouldnt watch it, and she should destroy it
yep
-
I think that an interest in seeing it is human and natural, but that doesn't create any sort of obligation to anyone. If she wants to destroy it, then she should, but it's nobody's business telling her what to do, either way.
-
I've no interest in watching a film of someone dying. As for whether she should destroy it - that's up to her, it's her property. If it were mine it would already have been destroyed.
asw
-
Originally posted by Chairboy
I think that an interest in seeing it is human and natural,
you must be one of them damm rubberneckers that jam up traffic looking at every little fender bender. :mad:
-
I would watch it for no other reason than to see what he did wrong. As a diver who has been up close to sting rays I want to make sure I don't make the same mistake.
-
Originally posted by Airscrew
I wouldnt watch it, and she should destroy it
-
She should either release it or destroy it. To keep it and not release it is to set herself up. As long as there is a copy lying around, it will eventually make it to the public.
As far as what he did wrong, do you really need to see the video to know what he did wrong? He was antagonizing the stingray just like he did with every other wild animal he ever came into contact with.
-
Originally posted by john9001
you must be one of them damm rubberneckers that jam up traffic looking at every little fender bender. :mad:
Rubberneckers cause accidents. You might wish to differentiate between curiosity and compulsion.
-
whatever.
-
Originally posted by Mightytboy
I would watch it for no other reason than to see what he did wrong. As a diver who has been up close to sting rays I want to make sure I don't make the same mistake.
Ditto, where I live/fish we have a *lot* of stingrays. I usually jump in shallow water with a light handline to catch baitfish live, up to 4 foot deep, I've had a few 'close encounters' with some big grandaddy rays.
-
Q: curious...did any of you anti-rubberneckers watch the saddam hanging footage?
-
Originally posted by JB88
Q: curious...did any of you anti-rubberneckers watch the saddam hanging footage?
Sure I did. And as usual, as soon as I satisfied my curiosity, I was immediately struck with guilt.
Do any of you rubbernecks get a tinge of guilt when you give in to your morbid curiosity?
-
Why should a 'rubbernecker' feel guilt unless they have created a problem for someone else? IE, if the person is driving and slows down to see or causes an accident, then guilt wouldn't be irrational I suppose.
But someone on a sidewalk? Someone browsing the web? No guilt is needed.
-
Originally posted by Chairboy
Why should a 'rubbernecker' feel guilt unless they have created a problem for someone else? IE, if the person is driving and slows down to see or causes an accident, then guilt wouldn't be irrational I suppose.
But someone on a sidewalk? Someone browsing the web? No guilt is needed.
I can see how this concept could escape some.
I'm talking about the guilt in the curiosity of watching a life end. The guilt in looking into their eyes and watching consciousness fade. The curiosity in watching a person cease to exist; watching someone pay the ultimate price for your entertainment.
No, you're right. There shouldn't be any guilt in that at all.
-
Originally posted by Mightytboy
I would watch it for no other reason than to see what he did wrong. As a diver who has been up close to sting rays I want to make sure I don't make the same mistake.
Don't get close to a stingray. As long as you are not in close proximity you will have no problems. Easy.
-
Originally posted by Maverick
Don't get close to a stingray. As long as you are not in close proximity you will have no problems. Easy.
and for heavens sake, please, whatever you do, don't try to make it with a stingray. it can only end in tears.
-
Originally posted by sluggish
The curiosity in watching a person cease to exist; watching someone pay the ultimate price for your entertainment.
They aren't dying for the spectator's entertainment, they're dying because of whatever killed them. What kind of crazy school did you go to?
-
Originally posted by Chairboy
They aren't dying for the spectator's entertainment, they're dying because of whatever killed them. What kind of crazy school did you go to?
Whatever you need to do to rationalize your way around the issue...
-
You haven't established why guilt is necessary. Has the observer hurt someone? Has the observer created the situation? If you're describing a situation where the observer is the person who actually stabbed the person who then subsequently dies, then guilt seems rational. Otherwise, it doesn't.
-
Originally posted by Chairboy
You haven't established why guilt is necessary. Has the observer hurt someone? Has the observer created the situation? If you're describing a situation where the observer is the person who actually stabbed the person who then subsequently dies, then guilt seems rational. Otherwise, it doesn't.
I'm not going to sit hear and argue about why you don't have a conscience and whether or not one is useful in today’s world and I certainly won't assist you in rationalizing your lack of guilt in garnering entertainment from watching a person die.
We shall agree that we don't agree.
-
It's interesting that you've gone to asserting that I don't have a conscience. I'd like to know how you get from point A to point B. If I saw a person get killed, I'd be distressed. I'd probably be agitated, and I doubt I'd ever forget the image.
But I don't see how guilt is appropriate, and you haven't bothered to explain in even the simplest terms why you think it is. The dictionary definition of guilt I'm familiar with is "the state of having committed an offense" or "remorse caused by feeling responsible for some offence ". What is the offense?
-
Sure I'd watch it, not only because I'm a scuba diver, but because I liked Steve Irwin. I want to see what happened to him, I want to know the details.
But I have a curious mind, some people don't.
-
I'd watch it, he wasn't any relation of mine & I'd like to see just how not to approach a stingray as demonstrated by an expert.
-
wot ah beauty.
-
We already live in a world where people thrive off of that sort of thing. I would never watch it and would sincerely hope that no one with a brain (even if they don't fully know how to use their brain) would never release the footage.
-
Originally posted by Brenjen
I'd watch it, he wasn't any relation of mine & I'd like to see just how not to approach a stingray as demonstrated by an expert.
The relation part is what would do it for me. I would want to know the details of how a relative of mine died doing something they enjoyed. I would probably only watch it once unless something appeared I felt needed more investigation.
If it were someone I was deeply in love with I don't know if I could watch it. Probably not.
If it were someone unrelated to me I would watch it at least once to get the details of how they died. Not for morbid curiosity but to let my mind rest about the subject and to allow me to live on. There would also be the benefit of acquiring some knowledge that might save my own life.
Unless I were involved in causing the death in some way or did not help to prevent it if I could, I would not feel any guilt. There would be no reason to.
Mark
-
Destroy it! Period! End of discussion!
-
Originally posted by sluggish
As far as what he did wrong, do you really need to see the video to know what he did wrong? He was antagonizing the stingray just like he did with every other wild animal he ever came into contact with.
And you know this how? You have not seen the video tape. You merely assume you know, without any actual knowledge.
-
If its around I'd watch it.
But wouldnt go out of my way to do so.
I only care slightly less about he tapeof Irwin dying then I did of Irwin when he was alive.
Now.. if he gotten eaten by a croc.
That I'd go out of my way to watch :D
-
wouldnt watch it. cant seem to come up with a good reason it wouldnt be a bit like watching a rape video.
-
I had some wonderful thoughts brilliantly summarized but they were lost when the server was changed. I'll take that as bovine guidance from the Lone Star intestate and jingle jangle back to the bleachers.
Besides, you guys are doing a great job roping the main points and getting 'em still enough for a closer look . (Exit Rodeo Analogy)
-
Originally posted by sluggish
Do any of you rubbernecks get a tinge of guilt when you give in to your morbid curiosity?
Nope. I've seen the video stills of the "fatal sting" that were on Ogre not to long ago and I didn't feel any guilt about it. Nor did I feel any guilt when I watched the footage of Saddam being hung.
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by sluggish
I can see how this concept could escape some.
I'm talking about the guilt in the curiosity of watching a life end. The guilt in looking into their eyes and watching consciousness fade. The curiosity in watching a person cease to exist; watching someone pay the ultimate price for your entertainment.
No, you're right. There shouldn't be any guilt in that at all.
Why should there be any guilt? Life and Death are the natural order of things.
Do you feel guilty watching old WW2 footage of combat or gun camera footage?
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
And you know this how? You have not seen the video tape. You merely assume you know, without any actual knowledge.
Over the course of the last ten years or so I have seen this guy screw with every wild animal that crossed his path. In terms of aligator tackling alone, he was batting 1000. I believe it was beyond his ability to not mess with every wild animal he saw. Honestly, when you heard he was dead, were you really surprised?
A simple mathematic equation tells me that if A + B = C then C - B = A.
-
Sluggish, no response to me? I take it you concede the whole guilt issue.
-
Originally posted by Chairboy
Sluggish, no response to me? I take it you concede the whole guilt issue.
I shall repeat:
I'm not going to sit hear and argue about why you don't have a conscience and whether or not one is useful in today’s world and I certainly won't assist you in rationalizing your lack of guilt in garnering entertainment from watching a person die.
We shall agree that we don't agree.
Concede? No. End of discussion? Yes.
-
oh gawd, here we go again :rolleyes:
-
I'd hate to see how many dead bodies would be laying around in wrecks & burned houses & yes....floating bloated in the ocean, if we all felt guilt for deaths we had absolutely nothing to do with or feel guilty about. No one forced him to get in there & swim with that fish & no one would have expected the reaction of it to his presence, tourists pay to swim with & even touch them. If video of some dude from the bronx getting stabbed in the chest circulated the internet no one would give a hoot in hades. All the attention is only because of who he was, not what happened.
-
Well, since you're the one who labeled it as entertainment, that's what we call a strawman argument. Also, no word from you on how you concluded that I don't have a conscience. I don't think you understand what guilt means, even though I gave you a definition. Odd.
-
I want to see the video. If you dive in warm waters, you should too.
I've never seen this behavior, and I think there are a whole lot of others who enjoy the warm oceans that need to see it as well. Its cut and dried, with the only caveat being the feelings of the family of Steve Irwin. I would never demand to see it. But if his wife would allow it, I'd really like to see it.
-
Originally posted by sluggish
Over the course of the last ten years or so I have seen this guy screw with every wild animal that crossed his path. In terms of aligator tackling alone, he was batting 1000. I believe it was beyond his ability to not mess with every wild animal he saw. Honestly, when you heard he was dead, were you really surprised?
A simple mathematic equation tells me that if A + B = C then C - B = A.
Okay, so you assume you know what happened, but in fact you do not. Just so everyone is clear opn the fact that you do not know, you just made an assumption.
-
Originally posted by Brenjen
I'd hate to see how many dead bodies would be laying around in wrecks & burned houses & yes....floating bloated in the ocean, if we all felt guilt for deaths we had absolutely nothing to do with or feel guilty about. No one forced him to get in there & swim with that fish & no one would have expected the reaction of it to his presence, tourists pay to swim with & even touch them. If video of some dude from the bronx getting stabbed in the chest circulated the internet no one would give a hoot in hades. All the attention is only because of who he was, not what happened.
You are refering to people whose job it is to recover dead bodies. This subject is about people seeking out snuff films for their personal entertainment. These are two totally different things.
-
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Okay, so you assume you know what happened, but in fact you do not. Just so everyone is clear opn the fact that you do not know, you just made an assumption.
Let me ask you something: Were you surprised when you found out he was dead and how he died (regardless of what animal got him)? If your answer is no then you know I'm right.
(other than that I'll concede that my statement was assumption)
-
Originally posted by sluggish
Let me ask you something: Were you surprised when you found out he was dead and how he died (regardless of what animal got him)? If your answer is no then you know I'm right.
:rofl :rofl :rofl That's the best arguement you have to back up your assertion that you know what happened? No. Seriously. That's it?
:rofl :rofl :rofl
And yes, I was somewhat surprised.
And by the way, the camera man who was diving with Steve said HE startled the stingray, not Steve, and Steve in fact didn't do anything to it at all. You find out things like that when you read and listen instead of assuming.
One more thing. I guess you assume the guy who was stung the same way a month or so later was harassing that stingray as well.
-
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
One more thing. I guess you assume the guy who was stung the same way a month or so later was harassing that stingray as well.
I don't know. Did that guy have a history of messing with every wild animal that he came into contact with?
-
Originally posted by sluggish
You are refering to people whose job it is to recover dead bodies. This subject is about people seeking out snuff films for their personal entertainment. These are two totally different things.
You apparently don't know what a snuff film is. What I referred to is not two totally different things, what you referred to is two totally different things. I'm not going to argue that your wrong because it's just your opinion & opinions differ but some opinions are just way out there & yours is too far out there to even comprehend for me.
-
Originally posted by Brenjen
You apparently don't know what a snuff film is. What I referred to is not two totally different things, what you referred to is two totally different things. I'm not going to argue that your wrong because it's just your opinion & opinions differ but some opinions are just way out there & yours is too far out there to even comprehend for me.
A snuff film is a pop culture term for any number of possible definitions regarding a motion picture purporting to depict an actual death.
-
Don't know if i'd watch it. Serveral good and opposing viewpoints here. Still, its gotta be better than that show his daughter is doing now.. have you seen that junk?!
-
Originally posted by sluggish
A snuff film is a pop culture term for any number of possible definitions regarding a motion picture purporting to depict an actual death.
Which nobody has been able to find a single instance of an authentic privately made snuff film put out on the market.
(Just watched a discussion of this on TV the other night)
-
Originally posted by Mightytboy
I would watch it for no other reason than to see what he did wrong. As a diver who has been up close to sting rays I want to make sure I don't make the same mistake.
Given that he was killed by a stingray in shallow water, it seems to me we already know what he did wrong, yes?
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Do you feel guilty watching old WW2 footage of combat or gun camera footage?
Yes, I do. One moment I am thinking, "Aim higher!" And the next I have to acknowledge that a man - evil or not - died in great pain and fear.
However much I may watch gun camera films, I wouldn't watch the Irwin footage. I see no benefit for me. That doesn't mean that I look down on those who do, unless they treat it lightly, as sport.
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Do you feel guilty watching old WW2 footage of combat or gun camera footage?
we all should no matter who....
I personally do feel a twinge when a 190 kills a bomber in a real WWII gun-cam (even though in-game I relish in doing so as I KNOW the difference... it is not an 8 man group of people I may have grown up with dying when I do it).
Originally posted by sluggish
A snuff film is a pop culture term for any number of possible definitions regarding a motion picture purporting to depict an actual death.
BTW Sluggish, this is in no way directly replying you YOU directly, just a generalization to the person's on the board saying they would watch said film in question.
"snuff" by your terms or another, it is watching another human being die for entertainment, or for sheer satisfaction, or for a sense you yourself are still alive, or whatever.... it is not out of respect for the deceased, and in fact almost by definition it is in disrespect to them.
If you want to see another human being die, you have many real life choices you can make to allow that to happen.
If you want to watch another REAL human being die on your computer while eating nachos or whatever you do sitting browsing the web you are a *****. You don’t have the nuts to join up in the military, offer to be a witness at a state execution, be a police officer in the central city of almost any major metropolis in the USA, or any of the number of ways you can watch another human being die.
The fact you are doing it online does not negate the fact you are not man enough to be there at the actual moment. You are hiding behind your "internet" saying "oh it is out there I can watch and not be involved, or be a part of it, or 'I'm not killing him', or whatever excuse you want to choose. Either way it is an excuse. Today seeing something online is like "hey, it's humor, or fun, or it doesn't matter in the grand scheme, or I'm just watching what "they" gave me.
That’s a major point by the way... just watching what "they" gave you. Did you seek it out, or did "they" email you a direct link, or did "they" call you personally on the telephone telling you where to go see it, or did "they" put it in a class syllabus and require you to watch it, or did "they" send you a post card in the snail mail telling you that you must see this or your family will die? How is it exactly you came across this video of another human beings death?
Many of you here have lost a loved one. If that video of them actually dying was available, would you post it to the general public?
Another point of topic... do you (people interested in the killing of Steve Irwin) frequent sites like orgish.com and the like? If so in all honesty why? Do you like to see other humans die?
Let’s step out for a moment and go to the evolutionist side of the thought process.... dying is "nothing" meaningless in your personal life someone you know dies; well, who give a ****. Let’s say your mother or father dies in a "horrible" way according to the current United States of America basic "standards" of ways to perish. If such happens, 2 things should happen:
1. You should be proud of the fact your loved one contributed to the "natural" chain of life on this floating blue sphere in the universe.
2. You should feel not uneasy at all about the public showing of your loved one succumbing to the "chain of life" that exists. For all you care nothing happened to them, they simply ceased to exist on a physical plane. Why do you not celebrate that continuation of the "chain of life" on our planet by publicly expressing their cease of existence, and re-assimilation into the food chain that is our planet?
Why is it exactly you do not do this?
-
When i read the accident report on the car crash that killed my 21 year old son and 15 year old daughter 16 months ago, there was mention of photos taken of my son still in the car as he was dead at the scene.
I have no interest in seeing those photos, nor would I want anyone else to see them. I understand that for the sake of recording the event and detailing what happened it was neccessary for those images to be taken. Other then that, it's no one's business and would serve no usefull purpose. The broken body of my son in a photograph would bring me no comfort.
I would have absolutely no interest in seeing Irwin's death either. I would hope his wife would destroy the film. There can be no solace in watching it, only pain.
-
Mustaine,
Excellent post. Much better stated than I could have put it.
-
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Which nobody has been able to find a single instance of an authentic privately made snuff film put out on the market.
(Just watched a discussion of this on TV the other night)
You are referring to a snuff film in the classic sense of the urban legend in which a victim is selected, a scene set up, choreographed, and a murder is filmed, marketed and distributed for the sole purpose of entertainment for profit.
A snuff film by today's standard is any human death caught on film that is sought out for its entertainment value. By that standard and judging by many of the posts in this thread, a snuff film is a very real thing.