Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Viper61 on January 06, 2007, 02:12:07 AM
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TO ALL AXIS SQUADS:
EXCELLENT JOB DOESNT EVEN TO BEGIN TO SUM IT UP. I COULD NOT HAVE ASKED FOR MORE.
My plan was to defend the assigned ALLIED targets with a good offensive operation. My goal was to obtain a draw in points at the end of the frame. I considered draw in points mission success as in the the real engagements the IJN forces were beaten badly.
My basic plan was to concentrate my combat power where the ALLIED forces would be the weakest. This would then allow me to save my AC for a follow on strike to the enemy CV's late in the frame. I calulated that what ever points I lost due to my own targets being distroyed I could make up in sunk ALLIED CV's and Crusiers. My estimate of the enemy situation was about 75% accurate. I had the enemy strength's correct but misjudged the types of AC used. I had expected more naval AC and less Airforce AC. My other misjudgement was what "Air spawns" would be used. There was some surprise at H+10 when the first AXIS fields started flashing.
I assumed that the ALLIED commander would throw most of his weight to the IJN fleet as it was worth the most points. Likewise I assumed medium attacks to the central and northern regions (less points). This would also mean that the ALLIED CV's would not have a sizable fighter cap. I did not think we could win in a slugging match (plane on plane) so I lessened my resources over the fleet and strengthen them over my land targets. To compensate I assigned two great squads the AK's and the Damned to defend the IJN fleet.
Have to thank the 325th planning cell on this one. Lowtec and I planned this mission over several days and he provided the Power Point presentation that the AXIS order was written on. Lowtec. I made it a point to visit as many of the towers as I could prior to lift off. No questions were asked and all had seen the Operations Order. to the AXIS CO's for reading the order and getting it out to your guys.
I divided my forces into three groups and assigned commanders to each to control the tactical fights. AKDogg and the AK's over the fleet with the Damned. CUTT 325th, 327th and 364th protecting the train in the central region. And Nomde 56th, 347th and FATE to the north protecting the fuel depot and train. Two addtional squads 9GAIP and Fighters Inc. provided recon to the enemy fleets.
From H+1 to H+60 the sector commanders defended their assigned targets (rules) and the Recon elements sought out the ALLIED CV's. The recon elements had the job of finding and attacking by H+60 to satifiy the rules and set fires for the follow on strikes. This was accomplished very well. First blood goes to Fighters Inc. for conducting a recon and downing a CV in the process!!! WTG
On que the ALLIED forces sent in their fighter sweeps (P-51's) as I though they would. I assumed one squad would be used in each of these operations. I assigned 2 to 3 of my squads to defend and fight in close quarters to each other thus we would have the advantage in combat power. 5 to 10 minutes later the bombing AC arrived which I calulated would be P-47's as well. The ALLIED squads were attacking mostly at one squad at a time and I attempted to concentrate 3 squads on them. Mostly this worked. I know the AXIS targets were distroyed but the ALLIED side paid a heavier than expected price for the them.
I was surprised that the AXIS squads faired as well as they did against the the ALLIED AC. I figured on higher loss's in first 60 minutes (defense). This allowed for even bigger strikes to the ALLIED CV's later on. In fact the AXIS side shot down more ALLIED AC over all. to all.
At H+61 I had all squads rearm with bombs and head generally south to engage the ALLIED CV's. There was great communications on the AXIS side. Very good grids and directions were called which allowed the strike packages to get to their targets quickly. Attacks were made I believe on all the ALLIED CV's. I am not sure of the total ships diestroyed by it looked to me like we sank prehapes 4 or 5 of 7 CV's and several Crusiers. As I had calulated the fighter cap over their fleets was very small. These defenses were overwhelmed quickly. In the central southern ALLIED CV I used my recon elemenet (9GAIP)to drag the fighter cap to the water while the dive bombers came in from above. Overall this seemed to work well. to 9GAIP for the mission success in deverting the fighter cap. In all the AXIS side threw nearly 70 AC at the CV's in 3 strikes.
Looking at the TOD LOG the AXIS side distroyed many more objects than the ALLIED side. ASSUME job guys!!!!!! Everyone needs to look at the logs and see how many objects the AXIS side distroyed. What makes this number so unquie is that it was done with approximatley 70 NIKI's hauling 2 bombs each and targeting moving ships. JUST PLAIN ASSUME GUYS!
Time was my enemy now. I had planes all over the southern sectors and only 20 minutes to get them home. A calulated risk but worth the points I thought. In the end I think we had 11 AC in the air as the time ran out. More importantly the ALLIED side had 6. So only 25 points were lost. to all the guys that made super human efforts to return on time.
I hope the points show a AXIS draw or a slim victory. This was a hard frame to win. It called for accepting a high risk mission for the AXIS side. But the risk was reduced by employing a detailed simple plan, decentralized command, maximizing my combat power.
In short:
Be where they think you arn't.
Mass your combat power.
Decievely engage at a place of your choosing.
I hope the AXIS squads enjoyed the plan, mission and my style of command and control.
This fight belongs to 68KO. He couldn't be here to see it but he flew in the minds and hearts of 121 AXIS pilots. 68KO .
Viper 61
Operations Officer
325th VFG
AXIS CIC Frame 01 Ketsu-Go
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couple questions my ords said nothing about an attack on the cv's, basically said you would be on the defensive and we were to all out attack.
Also the two train targets we had, well one wasn't there, and Dace said somthing about the other being stuck in a tree., so niether could be hit.
here were my objectives, says nothing about axis hittin cv groups, we were wondering why our cv group was flashing so fast.
Objectives:
1.Our main goal is to Engage the Yamato and her
Escort, these ships will be steaming for Okinawa.
There last known posistion was off the coast at 5,5 -
6,5 - 6,6 - 7,6 and should be steaming SSW towards
Okinawa.
2. We have also been tasked with two Rail targets, One
is the Supply Train at 10,9,7 The other is a Supply
Train at (16,12,6). We must also destroy the 9 Petrol
Tanks in the Tokyo area
16, 11, 7.
We are on the offensive, which means we expect no
Japanese attacks on our Fleets.
Every aircraft should be used in the Attacks.
Good luck Gentlemen.
This would explain why alot of us didn't see enemy, how many did you commit to attacking cv's. Every axis squad but 2 have objects destroyed, who was on defense, look like over half your side was on the offensive. If ya don't mind could ya post your objectives. Because something is way off
It also looks like you didn't use the Ki-67, which according to the setup rules should of had a minumum of eight.
RULES
Only certain aircraft will be enabled at certain fields, Please note these above and in the frame objectives.
All Aircraft must be flown with a minimum of 8 pilots per aircraft unless otherwise noted.
AXIS AIRCRAFT
A6M5B "Zero"
KI-84 "Frank"
KI-61 "Tony"
N1K2-J "George"
KI-67 "Peggy"
B5N2 "Kate" (Optional)
D3A1 "Val" (Optional)
not meaning to flame just some concerning observations.
had squads flyin around with nothing to do
going on the offense is not a good defense, it is no defense at all
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Just did a quick count from the logs.
122 IJN pilots
6 flew A6M Zekes
8 flew Ki-61 Tonys
13 flew Ki84 Franks
95 flew Nik2 Georges
I saw a lot of N1K2s we must have ran into the KI-84 squad because we saw a lot of them too. Great fight with the Ki-84s over the Yokohama area.
:aok
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Yes, The Axis were supposed to be Purely Defensive.
No orders we're given to the Axis as to attack the Allied Fleets. And the Ki67 was not to be used this frame per the Axis Orders which explains why they did not use them doobs.
Im taking a close look at the logs, and seeing exactly how to score this Frame. The Trains are going to be elimated as future targets. And the scoring will only reflect the normal Air to Air Kills, the Petrol Tanks around Tokyo, and the Yamato Fleet.
The scale (size) of this map makes it hard to relegate offensive targets for both sides and I did plan on switching the roles for the next frame. I know personally I saw my fair share of action at Osaka, although brief. The 412th fought a horde of N1K2's and I ended up captured.
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I posted this in another thread, but I'm curious to the fogvisibility settings. We were ingressing at 25K (P-47's) and couldn't see anything. No horizon to speak of and hardly any vis on the ocean. A lot of my squad felt like we were flying in IFR. Guys were having to use the attitude indicator to figure out where they were going. Just looking for a reason for the fogvis settings...
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Originally posted by Stoney74
I posted this in another thread, but I'm curious to the fogvisibility settings. We were ingressing at 25K (P-47's) and couldn't see anything. No horizon to speak of and hardly any vis on the ocean. A lot of my squad felt like we were flying in IFR. Guys were having to use the attitude indicator to figure out where they were going. Just looking for a reason for the fogvis settings...
I struggled with that too. I actually was flying upside down once around 28K and didn't realize it.:lol
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Just curious - If the Axis sank the Allied Carriers when they were suposed to be on pure defensive:
1. Will the Allied side get them back for next frame?
2. Will the points for destroying them be deducted from the Axis side when it comes time to figure who won Frame No. 1?
! :aok
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It did feel like a knife fight in a phone booth with a midget with that fog. By the time I saw the ONE hostile aircraft of the entire frame 6 others who where less then 3K away from me swarmed him like a bad habit.
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couple questions my ords said nothing about an attack on the cv's, basically said you would be on the defensive and we were to all out attack.
Sooooo what were the F6fs and F4U's doing above the CV's at 20+K:p :p
IMHO if you run this frame again in the future make sure that the CV's are a target. Both sides having to attack something makes for far better gameplay.
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Originally posted by Dantoo
Sooooo what were the F6fs and F4U's doing above the CV's at 20+K:p :p
better stick that toungue back in there Mr. Northern Hemispherely challenged. The Reason we were at 20K over our CV's is it was T+75, we were rtb for fuel anyway so we figured there were KI-67's there bombing, since the cv was flashing. And how did you see us and we not you, we dropped alt after fuel critical and still didn't see anything.
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Methinks wrong cv if you didn't see us :)
Cos the guys we met sure saw us (diving down on us from above front) :D I'm sure they were seeing us fairly clearly too as the 50 cals sprayed under, over, round and alas finally into my cockpit. It was 2 squads, F6fs and F4u's but I led badly and allowed us to get into a position where numbers dictated the result. mea culpa.
:cry
BTW it was darn hard to see anything out there once you had alt. I wouldn't be surprised if lots of guys flew right past each other without a sighting. 3 of us went round a group of P51s at H+10 and either they didn't see us or they were very properly focussed upon their task.
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Originally posted by Dantoo
Cos the guys we met sure saw us (diving down on us from above front) :D I'm sure they were seeing us fairly clearly too as the 50 cals sprayed under, over, round and alas finally into my cockpit.
well at least they blessed ya before they shot ya
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Maybe I'm missing something here............. If you can attack any target you want regardless of what the CM's set up, and if you can fly what you want, what makes this different from the MA. Also if the one side is allowed to use heavy fighters for their strikes, why should the other side have people lumbeirng around in TBMs when they could use F6Fs or F4U's?
Just asking...:confused:
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There are far better qualified people to answer this but I will have a shot:
You only get points for designated targets. You can hit anything you like (unless it's specifically protected in the rules) but it's a waste of time and ammo. You win a frame by getting more points than the other guy. Ultimately this win is usually considered less important than many other elements of the frame. It can be a useful guide however as to how balanced the setup was.
The rules for each frame usually dictate what types are to be used and how many of each type and what other restrictions are in place. This gives frame CO's a set of reasonable problems on how to achieve their tasking. It is up to the CO's to then allocate the resources they have decided best fits the plan they have developed.
There is no way you can design a 2 hour frame to be perfectly "fair and even" for everyone involved. It differs greatly from the main arena in that you use discretion and brains at the squad level also when you tackle your assigned task. If you are allocated Kates then you need to learn how to get the best out of them. Kate vs F4U1-C looks one sided on paper but it doesn't always turn out the way it looks. FSO is great for that.
The CO's plans are usually good right up to the point that the CM says "hangars open". At that point the other side starts trying to ruin your careful planning. and preserving their's. It's all in good fun.
People get their fun different ways. Most of us enjoy one simple thing in FSO - shooting down Doobs. Bombing his CV is fun too.
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I landed did you, oh wait that damn unknown enemy got ya
Dantoo
22:00:42 Departed from Field #34 in a N1K2-J
23:16:00 Was shot down by unknown enemy.
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The AXIS orders from the CM's were VERY clear and I understood them completely and without any questions in my mind.
I was to defend my assigned targets. The FSO rules state I must defend my assigned targets for the first 60 minutes (Min.). The AXIS side did just that. Just because your mission is defense DOES NOT LIMIT YOU FROM OFFENSIVE OPERATIONS.
I was instructed by the CM AXIS Orders to fly NO BOMBERS and only fighters. The AXIS side did just that. I used all 4 IJN AC that I was assigned at the squad or better level. Check the TOD log.
The AXIS orders DID NOT SAY the following:
CAN NOT USE ORDANANCE.
CAN NOT ATTACK ENEMY CV's
The points for the frame were very clear. The stated very clearly that:
DD's are worth 50 points
CA's are worth 100 points
CV's are worth 200 points
Ground targets 200 points
Locomotives 20 points
Rail Cars 10 points
The points for the frame DO NOT SAY the following:
IJN "ONLY"
ALLIED "ONLY"
ALLIED SHIPS ARE NOT WORTH ANY POINTS.
The FSO events are not about setting up a side to lose or win. They are about setting up a scenario (Histroical events). Splitting up the sides proportationally. Allowing the CIC's to plan and control the fight while staying within the rules of the FSO.
I exacuted my missions as assigned.
I maximized my combat power at the ALLIED weak points.
I fought the fight on my terms not the ALLIED terms.
I attacked because the ALLIED side didnt expect it.
The ALLIED side expected a "turkey shoot" I didnt give it to them.
The ALLIED side did not defend their CV's (10 planes is not a defense for 7 CV's) so I attacked this weak point.
The ALLIED CIC choose to use Airforce AC with no bases in which to land and rearm in time for follow on missions, this limited his numbers in the air late in the game. NOT THE AXIS FAULT.
The AXIS side had an simple plan with excellent command and control through out the fight not thanks to me but the expertise of the AXIS side CO's.
I followed the rules of the FSO to the letter in my planning and exacution orders.
To the CM's:
Award the points fairly and to the FSO rules. If not then these events will appear to be "canned" and designed that way from the beginning by the CM's. Attendance will fall if you do. I am quit sure that the scenario did not go the way that the CM's planned it. Thats war and if you havent been there than you would'nt know. Award the points fairly and by the established rules of the FSO. If it was your intent for the AXIS to lose then that should have been stated very clearly in the AXIS orders I received. Here are some examples for the next frame to limit and confusion:
DO NOTHING AND LET THE ALLIED SIDE SHOT YOU DOWN BECAUSE I PLANNED IT THAT WAY.
DONT ATTACK THE ALLIES BECAUSE THEY MIGHT NOT EXPECT THAT OR BE READY.
Enough already! Lets score this fairly and move on. Rematch next Friday night in the FSO (Frame 02). ALLIES come and get some becasue the AXIS side is PUMPED!
Viper 61
Operations Officer
325th VFG
AXIS CIC Frame 01
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I didn't flame nor pat myself on the back, but my ords were direct and maybe yours wasn't . but mine said
We are on the offensive, which means we expect no
Japanese attacks on our Fleets.
Every aircraft should be used in the Attacks. <--------------------------
every aircraft should be used in attacks, and its implied that the IJN would not hit our fleets.
We also lost two targets that weren't there, the trains, but no biggie.
But the axis should get ZERO points for any ships sunk because thats not one of the AXis objectives(I believe). If it wasn't an assigned objective, like nef said previously he was going to switch the plan for frame two. If you think the axis damage should be counted, then we should of been able to hit any target in Japan and accrue the points, no matter what the orders from the CM's are.
Viper believe me I'm not trying to start a war of words
3 out of the 4 targets for the allies were milkruns, and other squads flying cover never saw anything, this is the problem, not the fact that the axis plan used a loophole, to go attack the cv's(again not a flame)
The bottom line problem with your plan is at least half the allied side were bored silly.
Ya said the targerts were defended for the first hour, well if that is true, then why didn't we at tokyo, the USMC at the train to the NE of tokyo and the nightmares all hit there (well not usmc, no target to hit) targets within the first hour with absolutely no resistance. I never saw a bad guy.
again just my point of view nothing personal meant by it
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Was just asking Viper....... Oh yeah you missed a couple of opportunities to use I, ME, or MY, in both post.:huh
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Historical Fact: The USN sortied over 300 aircraft to kill the Yamato. We sent a Squadron and change.
I'm sure that given 6 or 7 carriers, with numerious VF squadrons and radar picket destroyers and the thousands of guns pointed skyward the IJN would have had a diffrent story IRL. My point is we launched with a total of around 250 people all together. Unfortunatly thats only enough to simulate with any amount of historically flavor the objectives the USN and USAAF were sent after and the defense the IJN would have mounted on those objectives. Sure If I wanted to win the war I'd take a Hellcat, some drop tanks, and a couple of cans of artifical sunshine ( as soon as HT gets that thrown in) and go downtown Tokyo and finish the war myself. But we can't, because that isn't what happened.
Yes, you were within the rules. But to me this strikes me more as a Kobyashi Maru sorta thing. Creative thinking, but the spirit of the matter wasn't followed. IMHO, this frame was more a wash for both sides. ( Not in any way the CM team or anyone elses fault.) Personally, I'd rather see the score reset to zero and let the final two frames decide the winner. Sure you knocked down a bunch of flatops... great. From the sound of it most of us where on the deck and in bed by the time these attacks happened because we didn't have enough time to launch second strikes. I give credit to you, it was a creative plan. Of course personally, I wouldn't go running around too loudly shouting about kicking 5 guys as*es at once if they are all blindfolded, bound, and you showed up with 60 guys at your back. Yes, if your fighting fair you didn't plan it right. But give me a break. Common sense applies here. ( Ask my MOI, common sense and me don't find one another often so this has gota be a spec. case.)
I would seriously challange the claim that the Yamato BG was defended in the first hour. We arrived, struck and were in egress prior to T+60 with the only hostile fire being taken from the BG itself.
None of this was ment as a personal attack on any CiC, CO, or CM. We're not paid pros at this and we're all greatful for those who dedicate their time to setting these up and run it. Sometimes we hit balls on, sometimes we miss. We live and learn and apply it to Frame 2.
Husker
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Was just asking Viper....... Oh yeah you missed a couple of opportunities to use I, ME, or MY, in both post.
Please remind me if I screw up again and treat you like an adult.
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Viper I have to say your orders preparation and your on duty conduct as CIC impressed me as some of the best I have seen in any event.
I am honoured to have played even such a small part for you in what I considered to be a top drawer FSO frame. In the parlance du jour:
You Rock!:aok
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Originally posted by Dantoo
Please remind me if I screw up again and treat you like an adult.
If what you think matters to me, I'll let you know.:lol
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Play nice guys.... touch gloves at least first.
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If what you think matters to me, I'll let you know.
What a retard. You ask a question. You get a sensible well laid out answer and all you can do is demonstrate your childish ignorance and respond with petty insults. Why do creatures like you bother using up bandwidth? Any person with an ounce of self respect or a peck of manners would have responded with thanks.
It should matter to you. It's a measure of you that you both claim and show it doesn't.
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Please stop. This wasn't the intention, of my repsonse.
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Originally posted by Dantoo
Viper I have to say your orders preparation and your on duty conduct as CIC impressed me as some of the best I have seen in any event.
I am honoured to have played even such a small part for you in what I considered to be a top drawer FSO frame. In the parlance du jour:
You Rock!:aok
I would have to disagree here somewhat Dantoo, although I know that Viper meant well and his conduct is always top notch, I think that, while the orders were well within the rules, they were lacking in the spirirt of the event. The allies had a couple sqauds that saw NO ACTION. And you know the one thing that will kill an event quikcer than any other is lack of action. I've made the very same mistake in the past, and will never let in happen again. Let's just let bye gones be bye gones here and chalk this up as a learning experience. If you want the CMs to micromanage the event they can, but it would be more work on them and we don't want that.
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Originally posted by Husker
I would seriously challange the claim that the Yamato BG was defended in the first hour. We arrived, struck and were in egress prior to T+60 with the only hostile fire being taken from the BG itself.
The fact is both the AK's and the Dammed were tasked with defending the Yamato. 14 of the 17 kills (P-51s, P-47s) recorded by these two squadrons took place in the first 37 minutes of the frame in an intense high alt furball.
The logs also show that KzzrSore and Roscoroo of the Nightmares were given credit for Zippy of the Dammed during this period. So elements of your Squadron did encounter at least part of our CAP.
Perhaps the visibility settings prevented you from seeing the encounter, or the rest of us as we may have been out of position when you engaged your target 5 minutes later. Regardless please refrain from making general challenges.
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I was under the impression that no contact had been made prior to T+60 with any defensive units over the Yamato BG. I am now aware of this encounter and have no problem acknowledging it or that it satisfies the requirement. I will continue to voice my opinion on matters when I see the possibility of a problem however.
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Originally posted by Dantoo
What a retard. You ask a question. You get a sensible well laid out answer and all you can do is demonstrate your childish ignorance and respond with petty insults.
Your're so right. I should follow the example you're setting.:lol
I never questioned Viper. My question was aimed at the CMs. Why should one side have to use slower bomber type aircraft, and the other use whatever it wants? That wasn't directed at Viper. If he decides to answer with the self serving flourish he started this thread with that's his choice. It was just a tease , it's not like I said he was a retard.;)
You on the other hand giving anybody a lecture on manners or adult behavior ........... That's just comedy, and every post you make keeps getting better.
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OK let's take this from the top! I would hate somebody to miss the value of your comedic relief and overall straight dealing and honesty. Original question:
Maybe I'm missing something here............. If you can attack any target you want regardless of what the CM's set up, and if you can fly what you want, what makes this different from the MA. Also if the one side is allowed to use heavy fighters for their strikes, why should the other side have people lumbeirng around in TBMs when they could use F6Fs or F4U's?
My response:
There are far better qualified people to answer this but I will have a shot:
You only get points for designated targets. You can hit anything you like (unless it's specifically protected in the rules) but it's a waste of time and ammo. You win a frame by getting more points than the other guy. Ultimately this win is usually considered less important than many other elements of the frame. It can be a useful guide however as to how balanced the setup was.
The rules for each frame usually dictate what types are to be used and how many of each type and what other restrictions are in place. This gives frame CO's a set of reasonable problems on how to achieve their tasking. It is up to the CO's to then allocate the resources they have decided best fits the plan they have developed.
There is no way you can design a 2 hour frame to be perfectly "fair and even" for everyone involved. It differs greatly from the main arena in that you use discretion and brains at the squad level also when you tackle your assigned task. If you are allocated Kates then you need to learn how to get the best out of them. Kate vs F4U1-C looks one sided on paper but it doesn't always turn out the way it looks. FSO is great for that.
The CO's plans are usually good right up to the point that the CM says "hangars open". At that point the other side starts trying to ruin your careful planning. and preserving their's. It's all in good fun.
People get their fun different ways. Most of us enjoy one simple thing in FSO - shooting down Doobs. Bombing his CV is fun too.
Your thanks:
Was just asking Viper....... Oh yeah you missed a couple of opportunities to use I, ME, or MY, in both post.
Let's examine question again? Nope no reference that says it was directed to Viper. So response is....yes cheap insulting drivel and not even true. This is how you treat people that answer your calls for assistance?
Your latest explanation:
I never questioned Viper. My question was aimed at the CMs. Why should one side have to use slower bomber type aircraft, and the other use whatever it wants? That wasn't directed at Viper. If he decides to answer with the self serving flourish he started this thread with that's his choice. It was just a tease , it's not like I said he was a retard.
True you never questioned Viper - now it was for the CMs. Your lies aren't consistent.
You're so right. I should follow the example you're setting.
Yes you should. You clearly entered the thread to make trouble. I however responded to your post to help someone who I thought genuinely wanted an answer. I got trolled. That will always happen to me because I still foolishly believe the best of people. Why you and your type do this will always be beyond me.
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Originally posted by Shifty
Was just asking Viper....... Oh yeah you missed a couple of opportunities to use I, ME, or MY, in both post.:huh
I could be wrong, but I don't think this post was directed at you Dantoo. Believe it was a reply to Viper's post. The one where he kept saying "I ....".
I think that is the reason why your "treat you like an adult" post was taken so harshly.
I may be mistaken, but I believe it was a misunderstanding. Not that, that warrants some of the behavior seen within this thread. And your not solving a thing by continuing it.
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TheBug
I will respond forever if necessary to ensure that I am not cheaply dismissed by some smug one-line ingrate who is set on causing trouble. I bent a hand to help. It has been bitten from the moment I extended it.
Dace
I am continually amazed by implications that many squads saw no action and that this was directly because of the orders that Viper issued. I have read and reread the orders. He put almost everybody he had right over the targets to be defended. He only had two very small groups go off and scout out the CVs. All the others stayed at the designated targets and defended them for something past the first hour. After those attacks ceased and after the first hour, he sent out a counter-attack against the carriers. In fact this increased markedly the chance of further action in the frame for players, not reduced it. The only case I heard of on the day of people not being met was a second wave attack on the Yamato. I believe the defenders there RTB'd after a fight and thereby just missed the second wave. Surely that was good planning and timeing on the Allied CO's behalf? His sweep worked. His strikers then followed through unmolested. Surely that was his plan? Did his TBM's complain that there wasn't 30 N1Ks there to meet them? I don't recall any other Axis squads reporting that their targets were attacked while they were refuelling. It's just possible that it happened though.
BTW I flew past you and about 5 other guys in P47s about 10 minutes in. We were low, slow and heavy and only 3. I chose not to fight. Did you see us? You know it was possible with that low visibility setting to go right past someone while staring nervously at the artificial horizon?
Viper I apologise for not clearing with you, but I sent a copy of your orders to Doobs at his private email, just to clear up the misconception that is growing here that you didn't defend. I am thinking perhaps you should post them just to end this nonsense once and for all.
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Originally posted by Dantoo
TheBug
I will respond forever if necessary to ensure that I am not cheaply dismissed by some smug one-line ingrate who is set on causing trouble. I bent a hand to help. It has been bitten from the moment I extended it.
Like it or not, you've been dismissed. However Bug nailed it. I was replying to Viper and teasing Viper not you. Sorry the world doesn't revolve around you, but if it makes you happy go right ahead with name calling and implications of others being trouble makers. It's comical to watch you display the very traits you beat everyone else up for each post you make. The fact you are oblivious to your own behavior while calling me a retard and an ingrate only illustrates your own smugness. I have not stooped to calling you or anyone else a name. You however can't seem to express yourself without name calling. You're ethier wound too tight, or you're a victim of your own self importance. Ethier way you really are funnier each post. :rofl
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Like it or not you've been exposed as a liar.
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Guys this was not my intent in posting a AXIS AAR to start this.
This started with my congrads to the AXIS side for a great turn out and efforts made by our side. It was intended to provide insight as to AXIS planning and exacution of a mission so that all could learn from it and make the game better. I did not intent for it to turn into a e-mail sluggin match between the AXIS and ALLIED sides.
I did not take any comments personnely in any manner. I appreciate Dantoo's comments on my preformance and I dont mind my Operations Orders being sent to anyone. Thanks also to WaXman from the AK's as well for his comments and thoughts, they were right on.
Enough said let this be the last comment on this thread.
Viper 61
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No problem Viper. You made a good AAR , sorry for the joke I assumed you'd be along way before now to get even. I'm an old 325th guy , and I thought one of the Checkertails might send ya back after me 2x4. ;)
My question was really aimed at the CM's, I hate TBM missions and if if we get assigned one and could take F4U's or F6F's instead I'd be all for that. You used the planes available to dish out as much punishment as possible.
In fact the mission lived up to the 325th motto. "Locate and Liquidate.":aok
Good Hunting