Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Puertorican on January 07, 2007, 04:19:27 PM
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Can anyone do a small favor for me? Yes please tell me why they forgot about the Mig1, Mig3, I-16, and the Gloster Meteor?
I e-mai;ed them and they never answered me back. I just want to know if anyone would like to fly them that way i can mail them again telling them how many people want these planes to be made.
Planes:
Mig1
Mig3
I-16
Gloster Meteor
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Search MiG1 or MiG3 and Meteor, there are plenty of threads on them. In fact we recently discussed the Meteor, apparently it only saw ground attack and V1 interception, no actual A2A.
The other planes have also been discussed before, I'd venture a guess that HTC saw other planes more important.
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as nirvana said )
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This has been hashed over so many times there's no real point in it...hehe I've even posted a complete list of all the planes that saw the same amount of action that the plane ingame with the least amount (Me-163) has...no response, and lots of folks talking about how those planes weren't important in the war...(uh huh B-25 was the first plane to raid Tokyo, not important!) and so on...
with respect,
Mako
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Bombers take a long time to do, if I recall correctly a response from HTC. The other planes. as I previously said, were probably thought more important by HTC. For example, the B17 is more well known in my opinion because it was the primary American bomber in the ETO and MTO.
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Originally posted by nirvana
Bombers take a long time to do, if I recall correctly a response from HTC. The other planes. as I previously said, were probably thought more important by HTC. For example, the B17 is more well known in my opinion because it was the primary American bomber in the ETO and MTO.
As was the Heinkel He-111. And the M4 Sherman. And, a Ju-87 that had a dive-siren. And, the B-29. AND the B-25 was famous.
Planes I have heard of infrequently, or not at all before AH:
Arado Ar-234 (Heard of but not much)
Messerschmitt Me-163 (Heard of but not much)
Junkers Ju-88 (Heard of but not much)
Lavochkin La-7
Lavochkin La-5
Yakolev 9U
Yakolev 9T
FM2
N1K2
Boston III
A-20G
B-26 (Grandpa flew one a few times. Thats the only place I had heard of it)
A6M5
Typhoon (I honestly thought that was fake when I saw it here)
Tempest (Same as above)
Spitfire XVI (Thos clipped wings were new to me)
M-8
M-16MGMC
Ostwind (I knew of a 'FlakPanzer' more alike the Wirbelwind)
Seafire IIC (Heard of but not much)
LVTA-2
LVTA-4
B-24J (I heard of that a decent deal, its just not very well known IMHO)
And yet all of the above are in the game. While there is something to be said for having things no one else does, perhaps it would be to a game designers best interests to not only have planes no one else does, but to also have the planes people EXPECT from them. Just my 2 cents.
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Ju-87 with a dive siren was an early war plane, and the only thing people would fly it for would be the dive siren, as it is the Stuka barely gets any play in the LW arenas. The Sherman, as I understand, would be ripped apart like an M8.
In the same thread which HTC (I believe it was Pyro) said bombers took a long time, which is why the B29 isn't in game already. The B25 gets a lot of notoriety from the Doolittle Raid whereas, in my opinion, the B17 and P51 are THE American symbols of WWII.
Once again, it's about what the company saw as important. My apologies for playing devil's advocate.
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Originally posted by Serenity
Planes I have heard of infrequently, or not at all before AH:
A6M5
Come on. You're right about the rest of your list not being famous, but everyone knows about the Zeke (Zero). It's the single most well-known airplane of the war, due to the world's disturbing obsession over Japanese culture.
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Aircraft like the MiG-1 and MiG-3 were minor players compared to the Yaks and Lavochkins.
How many people know that Stalin ordered an end to their production?
Stalin sent a telegram to the factory managers building the MiG-3 and its AM-35 engines and stated: "We need IL-2s, not MiGs! Let this be the final warning to both of you. -No. P533 Stalin" The MiGs were largely ineffective and poor handling handling aircraft. MiG-3 production halted immediately.
My regards,
Widewing
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due to the world's disturbing obsession over Japanese culture.
Obviously not as disturbing as your xenophobic stance.
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Originally posted by someone who's downright ignorant
due to the world's disturbing obsession over Japanese culture.
Originally posted by Kweassa
Obviously not as disturbing as your xenophobic stance.
BURN!!!:aok
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
Come on. You're right about the rest of your list not being famous, but everyone knows about the Zeke (Zero). It's the single most well-known airplane of the war, due to the world's disturbing obsession over Japanese culture.
<---- lives in hawaii
I know of zeros. The 5 model is new to me. Ive only heard of the A6M2.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Obviously not as disturbing as your xenophobic stance.
Google is your friend. Search the words "World War Two" and "Japan" under video. There is some truely disturbing stuff... Granted the japanese soldiers (or the higher ranks at least) were probably the most disturbing people I have ever heard of to the point where I refuse to even fly Japanese planes because, well, call me a racist, but I refuse to contribute to fame of ANYTHING used by the Japanese people. The citizens dont bother me, my best friend is Japanese, as is the girl I love, its just their military that REALLY bothers me. Look at my scores, not a single Japanese plane EVER (except when I was ordered to during that scenario). Call me a racist if you will. Or Xenophobic. But the Japanese military was SCREWED UP!!!
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Originally posted by Serenity
but I refuse to contribute to fame of ANYTHING used by the Japanese people. The citizens dont bother me, my best friend is Japanese, as is the girl I love, its just their military that REALLY bothers me. Look at my scores, not a single Japanese plane EVER (except when I was ordered to during that scenario). Call me a racist if you will. Or Xenophobic. But the Japanese military was SCREWED UP!!!
And why do you still use german planes? You seem to measure with different scales...
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Do you fly German planes too? If yes I smell double-standards...
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Sadly, I might have to go IN on this one.
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Originally posted by Lusche
And why do you still use german planes? You seem to measure with different scales...
I fail to recall any german military officer eating a prisoner's liver because he thought it would make him stronger.
Again, its not the Japanese leadership I have issues with, its the military.
Its not the German military I have issues with, its the leadership.
Two very different scenarios.
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Originally posted by Serenity
I fail to recall any german military officer eating a prisoner's liver because he thought it would make him stronger.
Again, its not the Japanese leadership I have issues with, its the military.
Its not the German military I have issues with, its the leadership.
Two very different scenarios.
You are falling for that old and very wrong myth of a "saubere Wehrmacht" = "clean military"... but thats for some other thread, dont wanna hijack.
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Originally posted by Lusche
You are falling for that old and very wrong myth of a "saubere Wehrmacht" = "clean military"... but thats for some other thread, dont wanna hijack.
Not to hijack either, but in my oppinion, no military can be blamed for the acts of its government. I dislike the direction the USA is going at the moment. Or, more so, I disagree with it. I still entirely intend to join the United States Military, and fight to defend my country should that become necessary. I still dislike the political direction we are going in. the Wehrmacht was fighting per orders. They fought for their glory, yes. They took priding in shooting down other planes, yes. But they didnt start the concentration camps. As far as I know, they didnt man the camps either. They did their job, through to the end, just as our boys did, and every other country's military. Its the intentional cannibalism that bothers me about the Japanese military. Reading and hearing of such sick, disgusting acts was entirely revolting, but I kept reading, I kept listening, because it was history like it or not. I cannot stand the 'Third Reich'. I despise it. I think it is the wrost thing to every happen to Germany as far as politics. But the fighting men... boys really, I do not blame them, and never will, for the actions of the nazi party. I DO blame the Japanese military for eating people because they didnt do it out of necessity, they did it because they wanted to. Plain and simple. Again, apologies for the hijack.
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Its not the German military I have issues with, its the leadership.
Two very different scenarios.
Tell that to 6,000,000 Jews and 27,000,000 Russians who were cleansed to make room for their ideal "Lebensraum"...
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Originally posted by 1K3
Tell that to 6,000,000 Jews and 27,000,000 Russians who were cleansed to make room for their ideal "Lebensraum"...
And who came up with this brilliant idea? Hartman? Galland? That young leutennant on his first flight across the pond?
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Google is your friend. Search the words "World War Two" and "Japan" under video. There is some truely disturbing stuff... Granted the japanese soldiers (or the higher ranks at least) were probably the most disturbing people I have ever heard of to the point where I refuse to even fly Japanese planes because, well, call me a racist, but I refuse to contribute to fame of ANYTHING used by the Japanese people.
And you think I am unaware of such things?
I am a native of a country which spent many years of annexation by Japanese colonial rule. Anything the Americans went and experienced through 4 years of possible Japanese war crimes during the Pacific War, we went through almost tenfold during the 36 years of colonial rule, so don't preach to me about 'disturbing' stuff.
What Moore is implying is that the fame of a certain airplane, namely the Zero, is undeserving because it is from Japan. He associates his malice towards wartime realities to the modern day Japanese in an extreme national/racial bias and you are openly agreeing to it.
Because some cruel things happened during the war, or some of those things were officially propagated by their military during the war, you and Moore view anything having to do with the ethnic Japanese and their culture, achievments, are automatically deserving of antagonization by association of their ancestry which participated in a war that happened 60 years ago.
Well I call that a crock of bullshi*.
Especially when your own stance towards the Germans seem almost neutral. You have no problems in flying German planes, despite the German military, its supreme command, and the politicians all conspired to the "Final Solution" of the "Jew Problem" and brought forth on this Earth one of the most shameful crimes towards humanity. And rightfully so, if I amight add. What's an individual soldier, or an individual vehicle, got to do with the Nazis and their political attitudes?
The real bullshi* about all this is you naturally distinguish these stuff when you come to the Germans. You don't associate every part of their war crimes with their human achievments in the field of military tactics nor technical machinery. And yet, you don't have the same neutral view towards the Japanese.
If that's not a double-standard or a blatant display of intentional bias towards the Japanese, then what is?
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Originally posted by Kweassa
And you think I am unaware of such things?
I am a native of a country which spent many years of annexation by Japanese colonial rule. Anything the Americans went and experienced through 4 years of possible Japanese war crimes during the Pacific War, we went through almost tenfold during the 36 years of colonial rule, so don't preach to me about 'disturbing' stuff.
What Moore is implying is that the fame of a certain airplane, namely the Zero, is undeserving because it is from Japan. He associates his malice towards wartime realities to the modern day Japanese in an extreme national/racial bias and you are openly agreeing to it.
Because some cruel things happened during the war, or some of those things were officially propagated by their military during the war, you and Moore view anything having to do with the ethnic Japanese and their culture, achievments, are automatically deserving of antagonization by association of their ancestry which participated in a war that happened 60 years ago.
Well I call that a crock of bullshi*.
Especially when your own stance towards the Germans seem almost neutral. You have no problems in flying German planes, despite the German military, its supreme command, and the politicians all conspired to the "Final Solution" of the "Jew Problem" and brought forth on this Earth one of the most shameful crimes towards humanity. And rightfully so, if I amight add. What's an individual soldier, or an individual vehicle, got to do with the Nazis and their political attitudes?
The real bullshi* about all this is you naturally distinguish these stuff when you come to the Germans. You don't associate every part of their war crimes with their human achievments in the field of military tactics nor technical machinery. And yet, you don't have the same neutral view towards the Japanese.
If that's not a double-standard or a blatant display of intentional bias towards the Japanese, then what is?
I have no problems with their culture what-so-ever. Once more, IT IS THEIR MILITARY I DESPISE. And only the on of the 1940s. I said that above. I dont mind japan, I dont mind the japanese citizens. I do refuse to contributre in any way to the fame of anything OF THE JAPANESE MILITARY DURING 1940!!!. Yes, the SUPREME HIGH COMMAND was part of the Nazi holocaust. But the average, every-day pilot or infantry officer wasnt. YOUR AVERAGE, EVERYDAY INFANTRY OFFICER DID COMMIT CANIBALISM, INTENTIONALLY, WITHOUT THE NECESSITY FOR IT. THIS IS PARTICULARLY EVIDENT ON THE ISLAND OF CHICHI JIMA. Yes, I am biased against the JAPANESE MILITARY. NO I AM N-O-T BIASED AGAINS THE JAPANESE CIVILIANS. YES I AM BIASED AGAINST THE NAZI PARTY. NO I AM NOT BIASED AGAINST THE GERMAN MILITARY.
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And that's why I call it a crock of bullshi*.
I have no problems with their culture what-so-ever. Once more, IT IS THEIR MILITARY I DESPISE. And only the on of the 1940s. I said that above. I dont mind japan, I dont mind the japanese citizens. I do refuse to contributre in any way to the fame of anything OF THE JAPANESE MILITARY DURING 1940!!!
... and the end result is you don't fly Japanese planes.
However, for the Germans you don't hesitate to express these views;
Yes, the SUPREME HIGH COMMAND was part of the Nazi holocaust. But the average, every-day pilot or infantry officer wasnt.
... and you have no problems flying German planes.
Not to mention your views on the individual Japanese soldier is;
YOUR AVERAGE, EVERYDAY INFANTRY OFFICER DID COMMIT CANIBALISM, INTENTIONALLY, WITHOUT THE NECESSITY FOR IT. THIS IS PARTICULARLY EVIDENT ON THE ISLAND OF CHICHI JIMA.
So, because some war crazed group of soldiers committed such horrible things on the island of Chichijima, you conclude every part of the Japanese military, including the soldiers, pilots, and their planes, is undeserving of any honor nor respect expected towards a someone who is fullfilling their duty as a soldier in defense of his own homeland.
...
Then, my friend, what's preventing you from finding some insane bits of cruelty and malice towards another human being in the shameful moments of American military? I'm sure there are some cases of war-time atrocities committed by US soldiers during 1941~1945.
Or what about the high levels of antagonization or cruelty displayed by the German soldiers assigned in Auschwitz? Not all the every day soldier there was innocent. Some of them openly hurt the Jews, shot them with no reason, beat them to a pulp. So is this such conduct of hatred not a proof that the German every day soldiers were also antihumanistic?
What's making you forgive them (and have no doubts about flying German planes), and not the same towards the Japanese soldiers, huh?
Does a group of soldiers have to be cannibal to be deemed "not worthy of propagating fame by using some of their war-time equiment in virtual reality"? Is that it? Is it because the Germans or Americans didn't eat their opponents when they outright killed them in a purposely cruel manner, that they don't get the same amount of despise?
Maybe I should dig up what some American 'every day soldier' did to Korean civilians during the Korean war, and make it my crusade banner as means to prevent people from flying US planes. I sure wouldn't want to add to the "fame" of the US military by flying their planes when some of their soldiers did some bad stuff to civilians during the war.
I'm sure you will join me in my crusade, Serenity. We will go looking through historic archives and dig up every piece of maliceful conducts committed by each of the Nations that partook in WW2 - and we'll ban people from flying every bit of plane in the game.
That's the human thing to do, right?
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Actually, if you were to find things like that and put them here, that might well stop me...
And its not just the island of chichi-jima. It happened ALL OVER CHINA TOO! Granted, Auschwitz was hell, and I despise the Nazi party, the Gestapo, the SS and the SA. However, those are seperate entities. I have seen to damned many first-hand accounts of German personel who did not in any way support the Nazi party, but fought for their country. Perhaps there is mroe to it. Perhaps its where I grew up. But in the concious section of my mind, I despise the japanese military for that fact. I dont despise Germany. I dont feel the german military contributed to holocaust nearly as much as the Japanese military allowed, and even suggested canibalism for enjoyment. Like I said above, call me a racist, I really dont care. Some of the things I say are quite racist. But I really think your ever-day Japanese officer was responsible for many more attorcities than your every-day German officer.
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Serenity
Perhaps you should read this story
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196737 (http://)
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However, those are seperate entities. I have seen to damned many first-hand accounts of German personel who did not in any way support the Nazi party, but fought for their country. Perhaps there is mroe to it. Perhaps its where I grew up. But in the concious section of my mind, I despise the japanese military for that fact.
Which would attest to your lack of information, or perhaps interest in matters, which is itself a form of bias. What you're basically saying is some German military personnel were not inherently Nazis, so you have no problems in disassociating the German individual and the crimes of their war machine.
But for some reason the same logic does not apply to the Japanese to you. Under your logic, since war time atrocities happened a lot in Japanese claimed territories between '30~'45, it must mean EVERY Japanese military personnel were cannibalistic demons.
You are saying the German soldiers who did not in anyway supported the Nazis, still fought their country, and you honor that fact. But the Japanese soldiers were somehow all involved in the atrocities of their war marchine, and it cannot be forgiven.
I dont despise Germany. I dont feel the german military contributed to holocaust nearly as much as the Japanese military allowed, and even suggested canibalism for enjoyment.
So eating a person is more atrocious then gassing them death in concentration camps? You think there were no German soldiers who hurt Jews for personnel hatred? You think all Japanese soldiers hurt Allied prisoners just for fun?
Like I said above, call me a racist, I really dont care. Some of the things I say are quite racist. But I really think your ever-day Japanese officer was responsible for many more attorcities than your every-day German officer.
Tell that to the 6 million Jews.
Or better yet, tell that to the many Japanese soldiers who were neither as political as their leaders, nor any more inherently inhuman than some other Western soldier. As the latter days of the war came, many were young people conscripted or volunteered into the Imperial Japanese Army, since they were told their homeland was in grave danger. They were no different from any one of us.
The only reason you have this fantasy about every German soldier being scot-free of war crimes, while every Japanese soldier being barbaric cannibals, is one is white and the other is yellow.
Yes' I'd call that racist.
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Originally posted by Serenity
But the average, every-day pilot or infantry officer wasnt.
Bzzzt. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.
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Hmm, lets see... SS and the Gestapo arrested and gassed prisoners. The luftwaffe didnt. Sure they took captives, but they didnt gas them. Some the Stalags, particularly those set aside for the NCOs were run by some absolutely inhuman people, but overall, the US prisioners, (At least the airmen) were treated decently. American captives didnt have to worry about being EATEN. The japanese heirarchy, from the highest officer down to the lowliest cadet thought that eating their enemy gave them strenght. Now, in the 17th century this would be acceptable, to some. But in the 1940s? I dont respect the SS. I feel about the Nazi party the same way I do about the Japanese military, and thus will never fly under a slogan such as "Wafffen SS" or the like, (Such as those I have seen other players here post in their avatars) Please, find me incidences of Wehrmacht officers, FRONT LINE SOLDIERS who:
1) gassed prisioners
2) Tortured prisoners
3) ATE prisoners
Find me more than 1 or two incidences of that and then we will talk. But the fact is, just because they were German, doesnt mean they supported the holocaust. Same as I dont blame the japanese people for the behavior of their officers.
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Sorry. Silly me. I thought civilian lives counted for as much as military lives.
Wehrmacht. Eastern Front. Ought to cover it.
If not, this may help.
http://www.amazon.com/German-Army-Genocide-Prisoners-Civilians/dp/1565845250
Refer to your original statement re: "the SUPREME HIGH COMMAND was part of the Nazi holocaust. But the average, every-day pilot or infantry officer wasnt."
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Correct me if I'm wrong.
Wasn't the German officer oath changed when Hitler took power?
Before they swore an oath to Germany.
After they swore an oath to Hitler.
Thats not a small difference.
As for allied war atrocities how about Dresden?
Some can argue the strategic significance of that bombing.
Reynolds you really should think a bit more before posting.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Serenity
Hmm, lets see... SS and the Gestapo arrested and gassed prisoners. The luftwaffe didnt.
And I'm sure the Nippon airmen did not go on a rampage like their foot soldiers. Like you said earlier Luftwaffe airmen did not participate in mass extermination like their foot soldiers.
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/em Looks over the huge threadjack. :O
Ahhh yeah I'd like to see new planes in the game as well...... :huh
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*votes for P-39*
Oh...oops, I thought this thread was about planes that Aces High forgot... :confused:
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Originally posted by Widewing
Aircraft like the MiG-1 and MiG-3 were minor players compared to the Yaks and Lavochkins.
How many people know that Stalin ordered an end to their production?
Stalin sent a telegram to the factory managers building the MiG-3 and its AM-35 engines and stated: "We need IL-2s, not MiGs! Let this be the final warning to both of you. -No. P533 Stalin" The MiGs were largely ineffective and poor handling handling aircraft. MiG-3 production halted immediately.
My regards,
Widewing
True, but nevertheless, almost 4,000 MiG-3s were built during the war. We have quite a few aircraft in here that saw production numbers well below 500.
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Looks like AH forgot that the Russians fought and bore the brunt of the mighty Luftwaffe from 1941 to 1943. We have no early war and we only have limited mid war and late war planes for the Soviet AF
I don't blame AH. Information on most Soviet WWII planes only surfaced when Maddox games released "IL-2 Sturmovik" in 2001.
Let me guess, prior to IL-2 Sturmovik release, no one in the WWII flight sim community have heard of Lavochkins (La-5, La-7s), Yakovlevs (Yak-9s), and even the the game's namesake... Il-2 "Sturmovik"(!)
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I want a Mig-3 .....over 3200 units produced it's crime to not have them!! ....sorry widewing....but i want one!!
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WOW im so lost on this whole post..........
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Originally posted by Scherf
Sorry. Silly me. I thought civilian lives counted for as much as military lives.
Wehrmacht. Eastern Front. Ought to cover it.
If not, this may help.
http://www.amazon.com/German-Army-Genocide-Prisoners-Civilians/dp/1565845250
Refer to your original statement re: "the SUPREME HIGH COMMAND was part of the Nazi holocaust. But the average, every-day pilot or infantry officer wasnt."
THERE WE GO! ACTUAL DOCUMENTATION! I stand corrected here scherf. Thank you for posting some evidence of an average soldier being corrupted.
But yeah, we need some new planes, particularly the He-111 and the B-25. The He-111 WILL be used. This last week, ENY has been ****ing the knights HARD. We were reduced to running raids with Ju-88s in the LWMAs, because anything else had too low of an ENY. Even B-17Gs and B-24s were locked out. I dont think the Heinkel would be quite as much of a hangar queen as people imagine. And the B-25 is just a sexy plane. Sometimes a medium bomber is what we need, and not to insult the Marauder, but its just ugly ;)
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this is the stupidest thread I have ever seen.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
this is the stupidest thread I have ever seen.
You've OBVIOUSLY forgotten Revor...
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Can you send them G.55/I and Re2005,too?:)
I got some good information about the two planes. ¡õ
By red admiral
Summary of report on German tests at Giudonia during 1943
The G-55 was seen as most favourable of the tested Italian planes
G-55:
- Armament: 1 MG-151/20 and 4 12.7 mm MG.
- High forces on the aileron.
- Effect of rudder could be better.
- Plane curves very good and narrow.
- Slightly uneasy in "mid position" (shooting position).
- Pitch to any side could not be noticed, similiar to Spitfire.
- Moderate pilot view on take off, during flight limit to front above, good to sides and backwards.
- Worse pilot view than the German planes.
- Aeronautical not as good as German planes.
- Not useable as fighterbomber with bomb under fuselage.
- Equal to German planes in climb and high altitude performance.
- Inferior in speed by 25 km/h, but Italian produced DB 605 delivered 100 PS less than the German.
- Superior in armament and range to the German planes.
- Ability to install DB 603 without bigger modifications.
- Was evaluated as best Italian plane in the trials.
Macchi 205 V:
- Armament: 4 12.7 mm MG.
- Unstable in lateral axis.
- Very high effect of rudder.
- Tendency to "Uberziehen" (stall ?).
- Forces on aileron and rolling good.
- Moderate pilot view on take-off, during flight limit to front above, good to sides and backwards.
- Will be only produced in small numbers since it is a temporary solution.
Macchi 205 N:
- Armament: 1 MG-151/20 and 4 12.7 mm MG.
- Mass production variant of DB 605.
- Good rudder effect.
- Was smoothly in "mid position" (shooting position).
- Rolling good.
- Rudder forces a little smaller than for Bf 109 G-4.
- Cooler too small for constant climbing and use in tropical environment.
- Moderate pilot view on take-off, during flight limit to front above, good to sides and backwards.
- Wing not solid but made of three parts, plane not suited for fighter-bomber use.
Reggiane 2005:
- Armament: 3 MG-151/20 and 2 12.7 mm MG.
- Aeronautical attributes were sufficient.
- Curves well, rolling like Bf 109 G-4 with rudder forces a little less.
- Take-offs and landings easy.
- Pilot seat a little too far away from control stick.
- Not suited as fighter-bomber due to size and location of cooler.
- Moderate pilot view on take-off, during flight limit to front above, good to sides and backwards.
The German's suggested that the G.55 become the standard fighter of the axis nations, replacing both the Bf109 and Fw190 because of its superior performance. This was not practical because of the ease of production of the Bf109 mentioned before.
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By jank
In a little known mission, on August 4, 1944, an Aeritalia test pilot who apparently was an allied spy flew a G.55 across enemy lines. The plane was taken to England and evaluated at the Tangmere test facility. The incident apparently caused the Germans to halt further Aeritalia/Fiat production which ended in September of 1944.
I have never seen any of the test documents but I understand from others who know more about this episode that the Brits were quite impressed (one characterization I heard was "shocked") with it in relation to the Spitfire.
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I forget who write this.
Fiat G55
Max Speed 375mph at 6000m, 387 at 7,000m, 391 at 8000m
climb 7.2min to 6000m, 8.57min to 7000m, 10.18min to 8000m
Range (Internal) 746miles at 304mph, (2x22gal DT) 1,025miles at 354mph
Armament 1 x 20 with 380 rpg, 2 x 20 with 200 rpg, 2 x 12.7 with 300 rpg
Only one example M.M.91194 was fitted with a dummy torpedo and was fitted with a longer tailleg for ground clearence.
The thing that impressed me was the Ammo load. Most planes carried around 150rpg for the 20. The G55 could fire all day.
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By jabberwocky
Fiat G.55 Maximum Climb rate 3,300-3,900 feet per minute
Macchi 205- Maximum climb rate 3,900 feet per minute
Re-2005; Maximum Climb rate 3,750 feet per minute
all from http://www.ww2aircraft.net/
Maybe G.55 is a Italian N1K2J.So beautful:aok
(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4264/g551cq4.gif)
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The G.55 was good, yes, but how many were produced, and how many of those produced actually saw combat?
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Originally posted by Fruda
The G.55 was good, yes, but how many were produced, and how many of those produced actually saw combat?
Oh! I don't think this is problem. N1K2J only 400. C.205 maybe 262.
G.55's production continued to August,1944. The most production number I heared is 274.
But the important thing is G.55 and Re2005 still a part in WW2's Italy and Germany. And G.55 and Re2005 was good enough,why not to fly them? :)
Actually I want more like P40N , P63C , Ki44 , Ki100...etc.....:D
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Originally posted by 1K3
Looks like AH forgot that the Russians fought and bore the brunt of the mighty Luftwaffe from 1941 to 1943. We have no early war and we only have limited mid war and late war planes for the Soviet AF
I don't blame AH. Information on most Soviet WWII planes only surfaced when Maddox games released "IL-2 Sturmovik" in 2001.
Let me guess, prior to IL-2 Sturmovik release, no one in the WWII flight sim community have heard of Lavochkins (La-5, La-7s), Yakovlevs (Yak-9s), and even the the game's namesake... Il-2 "Sturmovik"(!)
The Yak, La5 and Il2 were all represented in Air Warrior way way back in 1996.
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Yeah! Here is a G.55 site.
http://xoomer.alice.it/g55/G55his.htm
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I think additional planes should be added in order to round out a country's aircraft lineup and added in order of how many were produced. Of course, overriding all of this is availability of thorough flight-test data (not just something like Jane's).
Here's a list I compiled of production numbers for the various countries.
Aircraft production in WWII
---- US ----
For the US, here are the production fighters, with numbers produced listed (from America's Hundred Thousand):
P-47, 15683
P-51, 15486
P-40, 13143
F6F, 12275
F4U, 11514
P-38, 10037
P-39, 9529 <--- not in AH yet
F4F/FM, 7905
For bombers (from https://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.m...AAFaircraft.htm and others):
B-24, 18190
B-17, 12692
B-25, 9186 <-- not yet in AH
A-20, 7385
B-26, 5157
TBM, 9837
SB2C, 7140 <--- not yet in AH
SBD, 5936
---- JAPAN ----
IJN aircraft from http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijna/ijnaf.htm and from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...2C_World_War_II
A6M Zero, 10449
Ki-43 Hayabusa (Oscar), 5919
Ki-84 Hayate (Frank), 3449
Ki-61 Hien (Tony), 3159
Ki-45 Toryu (Nick), 1701
Ki-44 Shoki (Tojo), 1225
A5M (Claude), 1094
J2M Raiden (Jack), 476
N1K Shiden (George), 415
D4Y Suisei (Judy), 2038
D3A Aichi (Val), 1495
B6N Tenzan (Jill), 1268
B5N (Kate), 1149
B7A Ryusei (Grace), 114
G4M (Betty), 2446
Ki-21 (Sally), 2064
P1Y Ginga (Frances), 1098
G3M (Nell), 1048
Ki-67 Hiryu (Peggy), 767
---- RUSSIA ----
From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ List_..._
the_CIS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...2C_World_War_II
http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90..._roosevelt.html
Yak-9, 16769
La-5, 9920
I-16, 9004
Yak-1, 8720
Yak-7, 6339
LaGG-3, 6258
La-7, 5753
P-39, 5007 (from US)
Yak-3, 4848
MiG-3, 3120
Hurricane, 2952 (from UK)
P-63, 2421 (from US)
Spitfire, 1331 (from UK)
Il-2, 29937
Pe-2, 11427
SB-2, 6656
Il-4, 5256
A-20, 2700 (from US)
Tu-2, 2527
DB-3, 1528
---- UK ----
From Wikipedia entries starting from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...raft_of_the_RAF and using http://www.rafweb.org/aircraftA-D.htm to judge which are WWII aircraft.
Spitfire, 20351
Hurricane, 14000
Typhoon, 3330
Seafire, 2334
Tempest, 1702
Defiant, 1064
Mosquito, 7781
Beaufighter, 5928
Beaufort, 2080
Wellington, 11461
Lancaster, 7377
Halifax, 6176
Blenheim, 4422
Stirling, 2383
Whitley, 1737
Hampden, 1430
Martin Baltimore, 1575 (from US)
Douglas Boston
Brewster Buffalo
B-17
Douglas Havoc
Curtiss Kittyhawk
B-24
Martin Marauder
Martin Maryland
B-25
Curtis Mohawk
P-51
P-47
Vultee Vengence
Lockheed Ventura
---- Germany ----
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German...ion_during_WW2, but using individual entries for aircraft production.
Bf 109, 35000
FW 190, 20010
Bf 110, 15000
Me 262, 1430
Ju 88, 15000
He 111, 7300
Do 217, 1366
He 177, 1146
Ju 87, 6000
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Brooke!
Where o where is the Douglas A-26 Invader?! 2452 produced in WWII.... saw service in WWII, Korea, up through Vietnam in 1969! Finally retired from service in 1972. Probably the best choice for a perkable bomber to spend buff perkies on in AHII.
(unless they provide Henschel Hs 293 or Fritz X guided rockets / bombs for a He 177 added in-game, or get into the prototype birds....)
Some of the problems with planes can be guessed (and often are):
Put a B-29 in game, people will want a nook.
Put B-25 in-game, people will want CV-launched option (never mind the small payload, and missing defensive guns...).
Put the He-111, or G4M (Betty) in the game.... it will see some EW use, but otherwise would be hangar-queens.... both outdated by early/mid war.
Yak-3 would be fun.... a lighter, more nimble Yak...but fuel settings in arena would make for a shorter flight compared to Yak 9. (9 was front line fighter, 3 was air superiority, IIRC).
D4Y Suisei (Judy) also be a good choice from what I've read. Certainly a following in AHII want it.
Then, you can make a good argument that the planesets for Italy, Japan, and Russian need attention more than US, Germany, and UK do right now.
Then there are the option planes: Take the Ki-84. The Ki-84 Ib (Mark Ib) had four cannons Ho-5 of 20 mm and the Ki-84 Ic (Mark Ic) version for use against Bombers, with two cannons Ho-5 of 20 mm and Ho-105 of 30 mm in wings. Hope to see these with the rumored "perk ord system".
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Originally posted by tedrbr
Brooke!
Where o where is the Douglas A-26 Invader?! 2452 produced in WWII....
Howdy, Ted!
For each country, I left out aircraft that were lightly produced for them compared to others. For the US, I stopped at the B-26 -- it was an arbitrary choice. The A-26 is a great plane, no question about that.
it will see some EW use, but otherwise would be hangar-queens.... both outdated by early/mid war.
I agree that many of the planes wouldn't see use in the MA, but I'm interested in them for use in scenarios, especially planes that could be used to round out historical play.
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what strikes me about the numbers Brooke posted are the following:
Ki-84 Hayate (Frank), 3449
Ki-61 Hien (Tony), 3159
N1K Shiden (George), 415
But which do we so the most of in the arenas? Heck, over 400 Niki's lift every night in any one arena alone.
For myself, I prefer the Frank and Tony to the George. The Frank is what I use to lift from and defend a base... my favorite turn fighter. I'm hoping this bird sees some of the options under the rumored "perked ord system".
The Tony, oddly enough, is my favorite dive bomber, esp vs GV's. Fast enough to help me stay out of Flak's sights. 2-250kg bombs, and for a while there, I suspect that the Tony's slow-firing cannon was over modeled, due to how easily I could track or turret a GV with it. Hasn't been as easy of late, but I still like the Tony for anti-GV work.
Also, I read only 260 C205's were produced? The G.55 had 200 produced, 110 that saw operations? Pretty low numbers, but nice that some Italian planes are represented at least. the G.55 would be interesting addition.
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Plenty of planes for historical use in game, but if modeled accurately, would not see much use:
Ki-43 Hayabusa (Oscar) - widly used, comparable to Zero, but even more fragile due to lighter construction.
Ki-45 Toryu (Nick) - early war twin engine fighter that P-40's could eat for lunch
P-61 Black Widow.... only if nighttime is brought back to arenas, and if on-board radar and night scope are modeled. Otherwise, easy prey.
LaGG-1 and LaGG-3... unpopular then, would see no air time now.
Some planes that may see some use, if modeled and in-game:
P-39 Airacobra would be interesting.... I'd add it in it's Soviet skin though, as they got half of them (5007) through lend-lease, and the "second-highest scoring Allied ace, Pokryshkin, flew the P-39 from late 1942 until the end of the war; his unofficial score in the Airacobra stands at nearly 60 Luftwaffe aircraft".
Or it's successor, the Bell P-63 Kingcobra, which was adopted by the Soviet Union (but not the US), who took possession of 2,397 aircraft ferried over the Bering Straight. 1-37mm and 4 -.50's would be popular. As Soviets downplayed lend-lease craft, stories vary as to it's war record. Pokryshkin papers have his group in P63's late in war, but officially he stayed with P-39.
D4Y Suisei (Judy) a fast (342 mph /550 km/h) dive bomber with a 800 kg (1,765 lb) bombload, that also saw conversion to night fighters vs B-29's.
Yak-3... shorter legged, lighter, more maneuverable Yak-9. Or maybe a lightly fueled Yak-9 is close enough in performance?
Fiat G.55... yep...3-20mm mm Mg 151/20 cannons, one engine-mounted (w 250 rounds) and two wing-mounted and 4 - 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT (all around the cowling?, so nice convergence with them), plus option for two 160 kg (353 lb) bombs. A fine bomber interceptor. Probably useful against GV's too. German evaluation listed the G.55 "excellent" to the 205's "average" rating. Supposedly a much better plane than the Me109G. This would be an interesting plane to add to the mix.
And of course, I'll always argue for things for buff drivers to use their perk points on. More drones (up to six plane total), maxed out ord bombloads for Lancs "specials" and B-17's (remove bomb bay fuel cells for bombs) and Ki-67's (which run light) --- (pretty sure the B-24 and JU-88's are there already), and perk-worthy bombers..... which, all things considered.... is limited to the A-26 Invader (as B-29 not being added, nor, I doubt the He-177 with is ord capabilities). Not too many other perk-worthy bombers out there that I can think of.
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Originally posted by tedrbr
Fiat G.55... yep...3-20mm mm Mg 151/20 cannons, one engine-mounted (w 250 rounds) and two wing-mounted and 4 - 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT (all around the cowling?, so nice convergence with them), plus option for two 160 kg (353 lb) bombs. German evaluation listed the G.55 "excellent" to the 205's "average" rating. Supposedly a much better plane than the Me109G. This would be an interesting plane to add to the mix.
Guess that should be 2 cowl mounted 12.7 mm Breda's.... saw two sources listing 4, but most I've seen say it carried two, which makes more sense for cowling mounted weapon like that.
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According to the G.55 site.
the G55 in its very first production configuration, the so named "Serie I - Sottoserie 0
the G55 in the widely known production configuration, the proper "Serie I"
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G.55/0
Fuselage lenght:9.37m
Wing span:11.85m
Empty weight:2417 kg (5330 lb)
Max speed at 8000 m (26247 ft)
630 km/h (391 mph)
Max range
1200 km (746 mls)
at 490 km/h (304 mph)
Armament:
12.7 mm Breda/SAFAT
(2 on top of the nose)
12.7 mm Breda/SAFAT
(2 in the bottom of the nose)
320 rounds each
20 mm Mauser MG151/20
(1 engine mounted)
200 rounds
-------------------------------------------
G.55/I
Fuselage lenght:9.39m
Wing span:11.85m
Empty weight:2401 kg (5294 lb)
Max speed at 8000 m (26247 ft)
630 km/h (391 mph)
Max range (with aux tanks)
1650 km (1025 mls)
at 570 km/h (354 mph)
Armament:
12.7 mm Breda/SAFAT
(2 on top of the nose)
300 rounds each
20 mm Mauser MG151/20
(1 engine mounted)
380 rounds
20 mm Mauser MG151/20
(2 in the wings)
200 rounds each
2 x 160 kg (353 lb)
underwing mounted
2 x 100 l external fuel tanks(26.4 USgal)
underwing mounted
----------------------------------
Ki44 is good,too. I read a text that says Ki84 was a plane update from Ki44.:D
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Also saw references to the heavier armed Series I being deployed more than 0 was, as it was seen as a bomber interceptor, but I usually saw references to the centerline 20mm having 250 rds, not the 380 rds you list.
250rds for a cannon would be a lot compared to many spinner cannon armed planes....up with a Niki and 190's really. 380 rds? More than what the 12.7mm carried? That'd take up a lot of space, and is a considerable weight. Especially when sharing nose space with two 12.7 mm each with 300 rounds of their own. Also, I usually see the G.55 compared with the 109G for that period of the war, and the G models carried 150rds for their spinners by most accounts.
Favorable German evals of the G.55 may have led to later model 109's to carry more for center spinner gun?
In any case, I suspect that G.55 site is a bit off in ammo load for the spinner.
250rds for spinner, 200rds for each wing mount 20mm's, and 300 rds for each 12.7mm sounds about right, compared to most planes of that era, for bomber interceptor roll it was intended for.... still a lot of firepower, in a plane that reportedly was the best the Italians fielded, and flew better than any 109G.
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Author notes that:
Ammo loads for the Serie I are from [2]. The value for the rounds available for the nose mounted 20 mm seems high (at least if compared with similar installations), but it actually matches the normal loaded weights. Data for the Sottoserie 0 are from an evaluation report of the second prototype [8].
[2]N. Arena, "FIAT G55 Centauro - FIAT G59", Mucchi Editore, 1994. This is a good source about the development of the G55 and its later evolutions. It has also several data from different test evaluations. It has drawings of the later versions (by M. Ferri).