Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: oboe on January 08, 2007, 10:55:24 AM
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GM Announces plug-in Hybrid vehicle..the Chevy Volt (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/07/AR2007010700904_pf.html)
Not sure about the name, but its about time GM got on track. If I was making the decisions, I'd be damn sure it was made to run on E-85. I'd also be developing hydrogen-engine prototypes too. BMW is already working in that field.
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The battery technology is what is keeping this from becoming a reality sooner. I wonder if the 40-range still holds true if you run the AC or drive at night?
Instead of putting a combustion engine in it as a backup charger (with all of the associated weight, oil, coolant, etc), why not integrate a solar panel in the roof? The batteries could charge while it sits at work in a parking lot for 8 hours.
Or put some bicycle pedals on the floor in the backseat and hook them up to a generator and have the kids earn their keep charging the batteries as you go. :aok
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The treehuggers continually sidestep the issue. Where does the power come from to charge the batteries in an electric car? From a power plant that uses fossil fuels to produce electricity. As far as hydrogen goes, more thought needs to be put into the economical extraction of hydrogen than the development of hydrogen cell vehicles right now. Right now hydrogen extraction uses a lot more energy than it produces. I think hydrogen is the energy source of the future but we need to find a cheap, easy way to get it.
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GM isn't necessarily a treehugging corporation. Alternative fuel vehicles are a growth market and I'd say it has less to do with treehugging and more to do with getting back to profitability. Toyota is surfing the hybrid craze and will probably take over as the #1 automaker in the world this year, because they saw the market potential and took a chance on developing the hybrid technology and bringing it to market. Everybody else is playing catchup, but I'm sure GM will create something worthwhile.
Not all electric grid power is from fossil fuels, though the majority is. Depending on where you are in the country, a non-trivial percentage could be coming from nuclear or hydro-electric. Solar is still lagging but wind energy is growing pretty rapidly, too.
I agree hydrogen is where we want to get to eventually. But I am still pleased to see GM isn't just laying down and dying.
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Originally posted by sluggish
The treehuggers continually sidestep the issue. Where does the power come from to charge the batteries in an electric car? From a power plant that uses fossil fuels to produce electricity. As far as hydrogen goes, more thought needs to be put into the economical extraction of hydrogen than the development of hydrogen cell vehicles right now. Right now hydrogen extraction uses a lot more energy than it produces. I think hydrogen is the energy source of the future but we need to find a cheap, easy way to get it.
WOW, somebody that uses his brain when thinking about alternative fuel cars.
slugish you actually think beyond the fuel cap.
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GM most certainly isn't a treehugging corp (don't know if there IS such a thing). They are playing fiddle for a truly wishy-washy segment of society that believes that if they can't see the fossil fuels being exploited, said fossil fuels AREN'T being exploited.
To the Sierra Club types who claim to have seen the light and are going to change the world by trading in their Hummer for a hybrid, I say they have not made one iota of a difference unless they personally see to it that their hummer is destroyed, melted down and made into Toyota Priuses.
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Sluggish - oboe mentioned E85, which is made from 85% renewable resources I think.
I know of racing cars that have been built to run on wheat oil. Sure, they put out gobs of CO2 when they run, but this is balanced by the CO2 that the wheat took in as it was being grown to produce the fuel for the wheat oil powered car. So a wheat oil powered car is "carbon neutral".
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That's right FastFwd. The thing that bothers me about ethanol, especially right now, is that is made mostly from corn (at least here it is). Corn hit a ten-year high recently. High fructose corn syrup is in many of the foods we consume, and so it's going to raise food prices as demand for ethanol grows. I'm just unconvinced of the wisdom in burning food as fuel, but ethanol has powerful ag lobby behind it, so its going to happen.
With regard to the energy inefficiency of hydrogen extraction - if you build a wind farm and use the electricity produced to power electrolysis units, what difference does the inefficiency really make? The wind is free, and wasn't being used for anything else.
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(http://fasteasystores.com/images/hindenburg.jpg)
Can't help it... anytime I hear the phrase "Hydrogen Vehicle" this is what I think of!
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
Can't help it... anytime I hear the phrase "Hydrogen Vehicle" this is what I think of!
yeah, gasoline is such a safe fuel.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by sluggish
The treehuggers continually sidestep the issue. Where does the power come from to charge the batteries in an electric car? From a power plant that uses fossil fuels to produce electricity
While I can't speak for the tree huggers, the point of electric cars is not to save the trees, but to save us. The problem with the gasoline and diesel cars is that they don't pollute the forest, like an electric car running on juice from that coal plant out in the woods do. Gasoline and diesel cars pollute our cities in which we live and breathe; our habitat. Who cares about the countryside in Japan? … what countryside?
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My company partnered with Ford to make a hybrid vehicle...
(http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/Ford-Airstream-Concept.jpg)
It's ugly but very cool that we are getting into this market.
In the mean time, let us tell you a little about Ford’s hybrid concept: The Airstream isn’t a gas-electric hybrid like you might expect. Instead it uses a small hydrogen fuel cell that functions as the on-board charging system for the lithium-ion battery pack combined with plug-in capability. Ford says the drivetrain delivers an equivalent fuel economy rating of 41 mpg. The 336-volt battery provides a range of 25 miles on a full charge. The fuel cell expands that range by 280 miles for a grand total of 305 miles. Not too shabby. It won’t get you from L.A. to Phoenix, but, then again, a range of 300 miles is more than enough for most drivers.
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The problem with a "green" car is that none of the supoprting technologies are up to the task yet. Solar isnt very efficient, but solar technology and efficiency is improving. Hydrogen...for the reasons others mentioned. And how good will an electric car be in cold weather?
So, kudos to the car makers for trying to appease people's wishes. But typically, when they HAVE done as the tree huggers have asked, all they get is a car they cant sell...and eat the expense of building and developing it.
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And how good will an electric car be in cold weather?
Thank god for global warmming...
:noid
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Originally posted by midnight Target
My company partnered with Ford to make a hybrid vehicle...
(http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/Ford-Airstream-Concept.jpg)
It's ugly but very cool that we are getting into this market.
It's the Ford Suppository model line!
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Originally posted by sluggish
The treehuggers continually sidestep the issue. Where does the power come from to charge the batteries in an electric car? From a power plant that uses fossil fuels to produce electricity.
The company I work for generates 600 MW from natural gas and about 1500 MW from wind, and expanding the wind part to 3000 MW soon.
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If I was making the decisions...I'd also be developing hydrogen-engine prototypes too.
GM already is in development of hydrogen veh's... they have a hydrogen-based Equinox and one other vehicle (the name of which escapes me...)
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My only question about the E85 fuel is when it goes complety to corn mash will those who know how be allowed to make their own?
I know a few people that could drink what they don't use as fuel :).