Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: VermGhost on January 09, 2007, 05:12:06 PM
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Is there any way to prevent this?
to me this happens a lot when I get HO'ed by a HO'er or I am stressed out trying to bag a kill. I move my stick a little to correct for lead and go for a shot, but when I pull the trigger the stick is yanked a bit messing me up.
Any idea other than practice and patientce to get this bad habit dehabitized?
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I use a thumb button as my main trigger.
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Ha! I've found myself doing this over the years myself. I fell back on military training..."Squeeze the trigger, dont jerk". Id actually picture a practice excercise we used to do, (We would leave a section of a cleaning rod hang out of the barrel, balance a penny on it, and practice dry firing without losing the penny.) and try to squeeze the stick trigger in the same smooth manner. Not really a direct help there, but maybe that will give you an idea on how to tackle the problem.
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Originally posted by Murdr
Ha! I've found myself doing this over the years myself. I fell back on military training..."Squeeze the trigger, dont jerk". Id actually picture a practice excercise we used to do, (We would leave a section of a cleaning rod hang out of the barrel, balance a penny on it, and practice dry firing without losing the penny.) and try to squeeze the stick trigger in the same smooth manner. Not really a direct help there, but maybe that will give you an idea on how to tackle the problem.
What !?!
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What?
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Murdr,
We used a similar technique to practice trigger squeeze with a small wooden dowel that had a small flat surface sanded on one side. It really showed just how much yanking of the trigger was being done. Any ex-military out there that can confirm this? I believe it was a common teaching tool during basic rifle marksmanship training. Or has things changed that much since I've been active?
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Like I said, when I went through in 88 we used a cleaning rod section. We weren't instructed to do it though, it was more of a word of mouth excercise.
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Originally posted by hammer
I use a thumb button as my main trigger.
I do the same, it took me a bit to get used to, but has paid off for the most part.
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Never mind..was supposed to be a new post.
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I use the thumb button for my machine gun and secondary's. I use the actual 'trigger' button as my view up switch...so I can squeeze index finger to look up, then hat around to have my 'up-back, up-left' etc.
Takes some getting used to, to each his own I guess.
Tell you one thing I always mess up when getting excited, I have a twisty stick for rudder. I get excited and twist by accident, make me loose some E unnecessarily.:furious
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What you might try doing is in the off line version. There is an endless supply of bandits at any airfield you takeoff from. You are not trying to learn how to position your aircraft, but you want to just concentrate on the trigger squeeze. Back in the day the Army instructors had some very colorful words to describe a part of the female anatomy that was supposed to replace the trigger, but you get the idea. Try taking off just one wing tip. Or an HO shot on just the cockpit.
We used a cleaning rode and penny to learn trigger squeeze control in 66. Each cleaning rood had a flat end with a slot in it that the cleaning swab snaked through allowing you to pull the swab back through the barrel.
My understanding is that it was a hold over from WWI. USMC used it as a standard training tool. Everyone was first taught to dry fire the weapon. Most other branches adopted this trick of the trade.
I was introduced to it first in basic training, then AIT and finally in ARMY Special Forces. SF used it to train on every shoulder fired weapon used, also each pistol that was used for qualification. We used a pencil on the 45, 38 and Browning 9MM SF also used a 22 long pistol was very quite, made less noise then the 9MM silenced.
It worked very well as a training tool and could be employed either as a primary training tool or used later on for someone that had not learned this trick to control trigger squeeze.
I know that it is still used today to help control “trigger jerk” at the Special Warfare School. In 1966 all Special Forces had to qualify in the ninety percentile with every weapon that SF used . That included several CHICOM weapons such as the AK47 and SKS51.
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Originally posted by DREDger
I use the thumb button for my machine gun and secondary's. I use the actual 'trigger' button as my view up switch...so I can squeeze index finger to look up, then hat around to have my 'up-back, up-left' etc.
Takes some getting used to, to each his own I guess.
Before I got my X45, I did the very same thing. On my cheap stick, i had to remove hands from rudder in a fight to look up - changing it to the index trigger made my flying a LOT smoother ;).
Tell you one thing I always mess up when getting excited, I have a twisty stick for rudder. I get excited and twist by accident, make me loose some E unnecessarily.:furious
Try adding a little more deadband to the Rudder Axis - see if that helps avoid the involuntary input.
OPTIONS > CONTROLS > Map Controller, select your Rudder Axis (Z-Rotation), then check the ADVANCED box. After changing any scaling, do not forget to recalibrate!
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Hummm, I thought I was the only one that used the trigger as the up modifier. I also use a thumb button for the trigger but it's not on the stick, it's on the throttle quadrant. Works well but I suppose I'm just being lazy.
Mace
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Originally posted by DREDger
I have a twisty stick for rudder. I get excited and twist by accident
I do that sometimes, too... hate that
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my new x52 comes with a "toggle" to turn rudder twist on and off..quite handy
but not as useful as i thought, as i used small rudder movements alot more than i thought, got the stick, toggled it off, thought it shud help my flying, in my opinion it suffered slightly so turned it back on
but then the x52 has quite a bit twist radius, so u have quite a big deadband already, and u really have to give it some to get the max rudder
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Originally posted by Murdr
Ha! I've found myself doing this over the years myself. I fell back on military training..."Squeeze the trigger, dont jerk". Id actually picture a practice excercise we used to do, (We would leave a section of a cleaning rod hang out of the barrel, balance a penny on it, and practice dry firing without losing the penny.) and try to squeeze the stick trigger in the same smooth manner. Not really a direct help there, but maybe that will give you an idea on how to tackle the problem.
In '94 our BRM (Basic Rifle Marksmanship) instructor had us do this. We would balance a dime on the flash supressor of the M16. We took this a step further by trying to actually pull the charging handle back, letting it go forward (very easily!), tapping the forward assist and re-firing the weapon. One guy did this 12 times before he dropped the dime.
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We did this in basic training at Ft. Lewis in the late '60s and early '70s.
Half the platoon had weapons and the other half had pennys. One
trainee would practice trigger control while the other placed the penny
for him on the barrel or flash suppressor. You have to be very careful
not to knock the penny off.
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I think the root of the problem is passion. Although the other posters give some very good advice about trigger control, their advice is mainly of use for target shooting. It won't help you much in the heat of battle, when your veins throb with the juice of victory. Passion is wonderful but it is the enemy of reason. Reason is what separates us from beasts, and beasts are limited in their abilities. Tigers and leopards and bears have a limited bag of tricks, whereas human beings are all-purpose cultural cat girls.
I bet you're grabbing the stick really hard when you shoot at the enemy. I used to do this myself, and usually when the battle was over I wondered why my hand aches. You need to master your passion, as I have mastered mine. As a man, you have learned to moderate your innate caveman nature; now you must apply whatever lessons you have learned in life to the game of Aces High. Cease to care. Fly the La7 until you are bored with Aces High.
Over time your passion will fade and you will become blasé. At this point most people simply lose interest, because they do not seek victory so much as they seek the thrill of passion. Racing car drivers and pop stars eventually lose interest in their work, but they carry on performing because they are being paid money. They convert their passion for success into a more rational passion for money, and the things that money can buy. You must follow the example of Madonna.
You are not being paid to play Aces High. Your only reward is kudos from a group of people who call themselves names like Bloodshedder or Cannonboi. They continue to play Aces High and master their skills for year after year because there is nothing else left for them. You must convert your passion for combat into a rational desire to please these people. Eventually you will transcend pleasure, and then your aim will be true.
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My passion for flying has been with me since before I could tie my own shoes. It will never leave me until my breath does also. I grip the stick hard, but it is for precision and not from emotion. I touch the trigger gently; my advice for those with difficulty doing so is simply to have a very light trigger if at all possible. I use a CH Combat Stick. The trigger is very light and I do not suffer from any jerking at all when I fire. Also, practice makes perfect.
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Originally posted by Apeking
I think the root of the problem is passion. Although the other posters give some very good advice about trigger control, their advice is mainly of use for target shooting. It won't help you much in the heat of battle, when your veins throb with the juice of victory. Passion is wonderful but it is the enemy of reason. Reason is what separates us from beasts, and beasts are limited in their abilities. Tigers and leopards and bears have a limited bag of tricks, whereas human beings are all-purpose cultural cat girls.
Target Shooting and Passion go hand in hand.
When that 10 point buck walks out into the field you've been watching for the last 3 hours and stands there at 175 yards out. Your heart starts to beat faster....your breathing increases and your bp spikes. Now you have to assess the situation, is this a "shot" or "no shot" situation. You decide that this is a good shot scenario...Check.
Check your backdrop, no thing but trees...check. Good. Now ease your head down onto the stock. You've practiced mentally a thousand times. You have set yourself up physically, concealment and winds are good. Confidence is high.
Now Calm yourself. This is the hardest part. You know the range, you know the wind, you know the ballistic profile of the ONE bullet you have stuffed down the muzzle that morning. You've shot this range many times and know how much drop to compensate for.
There are very few second shots in this game. 120 grains of Pyrodex is waiting to ignite when the slider hits that CCI209 primer....you hope...it's only 10 degrees and you don't think the action is frozen ;-( .
Crosshairs on the target....find the shoulder... uh oh...target is now moving. Hold fire. Target continuing to move....hold fire. Target looks like it will continue to move....more pressure and stress on you....adjust the shot....and calm down. You still have a good shot...calculate your lead. Calculate your elevation....hold on target. Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzz zzBOOOM.
You don't even feel the recoil...all you see is smoke.
When done right....the shot scares the hell outta ya! When the smoke clears....go over there and pick up your dinner.
I can (and did) make that shot....but in here...nothing really dies. So when you shoot at something in here just keep this in mind.....it ain't real. It's a virtual representation of an imaginary world. But there are some similiarities.... Know your weapon. Know your abilities. Practice your shooting. Then get out there and blaze away....knowing your powder is always dry, the primer never fails, the action always functions and the bullets always fly true. It's just that pesky target that keeps moving in seamingly random order that ya gotta figure out ;-)
Good luck.
Softail
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Having been a shooter all my life, I don't have much of an issue with 'yanking' the trigger. For me in AH there is a follow through issue, much like when skeet shooting or bow shooting birds in flight. Getting a deflection shot ping is not hard, but getting a kill requires follow through to keep time on target. Of course if you fly a 4 cannon plane, follow through is not an issue.
Target panic is best cured by flying and fighting more. Also, maybe don't worry so much about getting killed? Just my $.02.
Regards,
Malta