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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ack-Ack on January 13, 2007, 04:52:51 AM

Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 13, 2007, 04:52:51 AM
Anyone see tonight's episode?  It told the story of a SBD Dauntless pilot (can't remember how to spell his name but his nickname was "Swede") that was jumped by a Zero and was forced to dog fight.  The fight later evolved into a 2v1 and then a 3v1 and lasted close to 20 minutes.  Incredible story and what an amazing fight.  The Dauntless was able to hold it's own against the 3 Zeros and managed to down all three of them and make it home.  The Dauntless pilot was later transfered over to fighters and flew the Wildcat and I think was the first US pilot to down 7 enemy fighters in one fight.  The second story was about a B-17 bomber, Old 666 that was attacked by 17 Japanese fighters while on a photo recce mission.  Unfortunately for the Japanese they attacked what as then the most heavily armed B-17 in the Pacific with no less then 19 .50 cal machine guns including a nose mounted one that was fired by the pilot.  The crew was the most highly decorated crew in the war, 2 CMHs and 7 DFCs and downed 3 Japanese fighters before the Japanese fighters had to break off due to fuel.

I guess the moral of the story is that within every bomber pilot is a fighter pilot itching to get out.


ack-ack
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Roscoroo on January 13, 2007, 04:57:00 AM
yea it was way Cool ... Triple 6 Rocked !!!  oh yea The AH commercial on the History channel ... ABout Frelling time !!! Woo hoo .

(Way more exposure on the history channel ...its on basic cable everywere ) :aok
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Oleg on January 13, 2007, 05:16:18 AM
Stanley Vejtasa
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: rod367th on January 13, 2007, 05:29:04 AM
We play game, to see a man fight for his life pulling 9 or more g turns. Kicking his rudder against Headon attack after headon was great lesson, wish i could use rudder pedals. but was another great dogfight the thundercat's fight was fun to watch to. The boy and I watch every friday nite. I bet those Zero's were on 200   swearing he had cheat codes.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: blkmgc on January 13, 2007, 05:47:49 AM
Jeez, do that in the MA and you'll be labled an Ackstar!:D

It was a good show though.

Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: storch on January 13, 2007, 06:51:40 AM
no wonder there was a drove of noobs in SBDs on last night.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: T0J0 on January 13, 2007, 07:00:19 AM
Excellent placement of the AH commercial... It was the first time I have seen it ever on tv..
I hope the Dogfight show does well, most entertaining night of tv in years!
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Max on January 13, 2007, 07:26:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Roscoroo
oh yea The AH commercial on the History channel ... ABout Frelling time !!! Woo hoo .

(Way more exposure on the history channel ...its on basic cable everywere ) :aok


Fresh meat :p
Title: Had to Tape It!
Post by: Chilli on January 13, 2007, 08:42:15 AM
I go to work at nights.  Just as it comes on I am leaving.  I taped it and about to watch it this morning.  I was about 8 mins. late for work (heehee).  I couldn't pull myself away even though the tape was running.  So, I can't  read your posts yet.   I will post later after I watch it (getting popcorn.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Max on January 13, 2007, 08:58:09 AM
Anyone know who produces the graphic animations? Looks uncannily like AH.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Tabasco on January 13, 2007, 09:01:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by T0J0
Excellent placement of the AH commercial... It was the first time I have seen it ever on tv..
I hope the Dogfight show does well, most entertaining night of tv in years!



For sure. I've seen the commercial a few times before but it fit in so seamlessly with the program that it caught me by surprise this time.

I wonder if those shows can be had on DVD yet?
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: NHawk on January 13, 2007, 09:51:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Max
Anyone know who produces the graphic animations? Looks uncannily like AH.
I only saw the first 25 minutes, but I thought the clouds looked amazingly like the ones in AH.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: USRanger on January 13, 2007, 10:26:43 AM
80% of the attack runs on that episode were HOs, but it still wasn't a valid tactic, right?:aok   Tell that to that SBD pilot who is alive today because he was a "skilless dweeb":lol
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Widewing on January 13, 2007, 10:30:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
no wonder there was a drove of noobs in SBDs on last night.


You'll find some vets flying the SBD as well.

I like to use it to intercept raids. Invariably, they don't take the threat seriously and pay for it in spades. The last time I flew the SBD against a raid, I nailed 4 F4Us and a P-51 before being forced to ditch my wrecked Dauntless. Excellent turning ability, zero convergence guns and the ability to force overshoots at will all contribute to the SBD being far more dangerous than most players will realize... Until it's too late. :)

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Krusty on January 13, 2007, 11:05:07 AM
I caught it until just after the B-17 story about 666 then had to go to sleep (it was 1AM at this point). I missed the AH commercial.

Oh, hey Ack-Ack, I think they said it was the single most decorated mission, not the most decorated crew (meaning everybody on that mission got a medal instead of just 1 or 2 people). At least that's what my sleep-fogged memory tells me :aok

It was a pretty cool thing to see the modifications to that B-17. Almost like the YB-40 (the heavily armed B17 that was too slow to stay with formation after bomb drop?), but all field-modded!
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Jebus on January 13, 2007, 11:21:32 AM
I think we should make the Old 666 skin and let 999000 fly around with it.  That would be the prefect fit for him. :D :aok
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Raptor on January 13, 2007, 11:40:56 AM
Right now they are focusing on US vs Japan in the WW2 era, and as it is they have only scratched the surface of matchups there. I think the show should be successful, even after they run out of US match ups, then they can move to british, german, russian, etc...
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Angry Samoan on January 13, 2007, 12:08:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by USRanger
80% of the attack runs on that episode were HOs, but it still wasn't a valid tactic, right?:aok   Tell that to that SBD pilot who is alive today because he was a "skilless dweeb":lol























:cry
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: RupturedDuck on January 13, 2007, 12:45:43 PM
yah yah, Ack Ack

Love the Dogfights.  It's my daughter's; who's turning 4 next month favorite show.  Especially the episodes of the Flying Tigers and the Hellcats.  She can name the pilots and planes, etc.  We've a possible future pilot on our hands here~! :-D
I'm always struck by the courage, bravery and skill of the pilots.  Lessons to be learned there on that show.  

Blue skies!

-Ruptured Duck:aok
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Iron_Cross on January 13, 2007, 01:52:53 PM
I love Dogfight,  because it also teaches some ACM.   Maybe some of the NOOBs who get on, who watch it may be a slight threat.  Shure would be a change.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: VooWho on January 13, 2007, 02:39:35 PM
I learned some better fighter tactics just watching dogfights. I love the vietnam ones where the F4s, or Corsairs get into these long turn fights with Mig21s, or Mig17s and the F4s fire a missle and it goes to its target but over shoots. Funny watching early missle technology fail in the hands of the great airforce.

I would love to see dog fight cover all top aces of WW2 from every country. There is how you learn alot about a planes weakness, and its strenghts.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Roscoroo on January 13, 2007, 02:47:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by VooWho

I would love to see dog fight cover all top aces of WW2 from every country. There is how you learn alot about a planes weakness, and its strenghts.


If your not familiar with this site ... http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/aces.htm (http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/aces.htm)

It got tons and tons of storys ... great site
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Coronado on January 13, 2007, 02:54:47 PM
let's face it...3 zekes on an SBD??  and the SBD kills them???  they deserved to die.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Bruv119 on January 13, 2007, 02:57:30 PM
VooWho.

There are loads of fascinating BOOKS out there.  That will capture your imagination just as much as dogfights can.


My favourite was Saburo Sakai's biography I managed to get off the net for one pound.  An old 1960's print in perfect condition.  What a guy.


Bruv
~S~
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: john9001 on January 13, 2007, 03:20:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Coronado
let's face it...3 zekes on an SBD??  and the SBD kills them???  they deserved to die.


the 3rd kill was from a collision between the SBD and the zero when the zero tried to HO, SBD lost a aileron the zero broke and augred.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: 1cemanVS on January 13, 2007, 03:52:26 PM
thin we get a mention here, pherhaps the advert isnt 100% successful, the guy doesnt remember the name :P

http://boards.historychannel.com/thread.jspa?threadID=600021641&messageID=700100104

anyway im looking for somehwere to download/stream the episodes if anyone has a linky, in the uK here its hard to stay up till 5-6am to catc hthe programme :P
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: DES on January 13, 2007, 08:19:30 PM
If you find them somewhere please post it here or in PM. I've captured all the episodes so far and converted them each to 350 meg XVID files to save on a DVD. My capture of the Flying Tigers episode was messed up so I've been scouring Bittorrent sites and Usenet looking for it but no luck yet.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: outbreak on January 13, 2007, 09:09:11 PM
yea was in game and talking to some squaddies while watching this, was a very good episode indeed, Even tried to fly the SBD after watching this episode, Needless to say i sucked :lol
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Rollins on January 13, 2007, 09:34:29 PM
Roscoroo, great site, thanks for the link.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Hap on January 14, 2007, 01:38:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
You'll find some vets flying the SBD as well.

I like to use it to intercept raids. Invariably, they don't take the threat seriously and pay for it in spades. The last time I flew the SBD against a raid, I nailed 4 F4Us and a P-51 before being forced to ditch my wrecked Dauntless. Excellent turning ability, zero convergence guns and the ability to force overshoots at will all contribute to the SBD being far more dangerous than most players will realize... Until it's too late. :)

My regards,

Widewing


Widewing,

How/when did you figure this out.  Noodling in the TA?  And on overshoots, flaps?  How many notches do you like.

I've only used the Dauntless as an observation platform when commanding a CV.

Thanks for your input, always substantive,

hap
Title: Re: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Stoney74 on January 14, 2007, 02:04:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The crew was the most highly decorated crew in the war, 2 CMHs and 7 DFCs and downed 3 Japanese fighters before the Japanese fighters had to break off due to fuel.Iack-ack


Ack-Ack.  I appreciate your post, but I have a major hang up with people refering to the "Medal" as the CMH.  Congress, with the exception of a small majority like Sen. Inouye, Sen. Kerry (of the Bob variety and not John), and vets like John McCain haven't the foggiest idea what it takes to earn that Medal.  Its bestowed by the President, given by authority of Congress, and its official abbreviation is the "MOH", with a blatant ommission of the term "Congressional" from its title.  Medal of Honor, please; not Congressional Medal of Honor.  Sorry, but I felt that it merited a response.

Great story about Swede, regardless...
Title: Re: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Murdr on January 14, 2007, 02:16:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The Dauntless pilot was later transfered over to fighters and flew the Wildcat and I think was the first US pilot to down 7 enemy fighters in one fight.
Thanks, now I am racking my brain trying to figure out which book I had read where the brass was ticked and ordered longer gun camera film be loaded because a pilot shot down 7 planes, but the film ran out at 5 kills.  Curious if its the same pilot.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: eilif on January 14, 2007, 02:36:05 AM
SBD,

Slow But Deadly.  Old WWII slang.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: RAIDER14 on January 14, 2007, 02:59:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by NHawk
I only saw the first 25 minutes, but I thought the clouds looked amazingly like the ones in AH.


HTC got a contract with the History Channel so they use Aces High for the simulation scenes
Title: Re: Re: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 14, 2007, 03:06:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Stoney74
Ack-Ack.  I appreciate your post, but I have a major hang up with people refering to the "Medal" as the CMH.  Congress, with the exception of a small majority like Sen. Inouye, Sen. Kerry (of the Bob variety and not John), and vets like John McCain haven't the foggiest idea what it takes to earn that Medal.  Its bestowed by the President, given by authority of Congress, and its official abbreviation is the "MOH", with a blatant ommission of the term "Congressional" from its title.  Medal of Honor, please; not Congressional Medal of Honor.  Sorry, but I felt that it merited a response.

Great story about Swede, regardless...


Congressional Medal of Honor is just as correct as Medal of Honor and both are used to refer to the medal.


ack-ack
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Dr1337 on January 14, 2007, 03:54:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by RAIDER14
HTC got a contract with the History Channel so they use Aces High for the simulation scenes


BS lol
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Widewing on January 14, 2007, 10:58:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Hap
Widewing,

How/when did you figure this out.  Noodling in the TA?  And on overshoots, flaps?  How many notches do you like.

I've only used the Dauntless as an observation platform when commanding a CV.

Thanks for your input, always substantive,

hap


There are several things that the SBD brings to the table.

1) Superior turn radius (out-turns everything but Zeros and Hurri Mk.I)
2) "Stop now" dive brakes (forces an overshoot)
3) Effective, tightly grouped guns (IMHO, more lethal than 8 .303s on SpitI)
4) No blind spots (thanks to outside view option in MA)
5) Excellent endurance on 50% fuel (good for almost 30 minutes)
6) Effective flaps (deploy at high speeds)

There are several notable areas of weakeness.

1) Poor roll rate (ineffective ailerons, needs lots of rudder input to roll smartly)
2) Slow acceleration (use nose-low maneuvers to maintain E)
3) 260 mph max speed (conserve E whenever possible)
4) Sudden drop of left wing at stall (be quick on the rudder to counter)
5) Slow climb rate (especially between 2k and 6k. Above 6k, supercharger switches gears)

When flying the SBD, it pays to be aggressive. When most pilots encounter an SBD, its pilot is flying defensively, thus it isn't a real threat and usually not a difficult target. Not withstanding, an aggressive SBD can be a real handful, often catching the enemy flat-footed. Inasmuch as the SBD can out-turn nearly every fighter it meets, being caught flat-footed by one usually means getting smacked.

SBDs dive very well (as one would expect from a dive bomber). Nursing one up to 15,000 feet provides lots of potential energy, allowing it to run down lower fighters and force a fight.

SBDs also require good timing. Since you cannot readily replace speed lost in maneuvering, timing become essential to E conservation. Time your maneuvers to gain angles without wasting speed. This requires good judgement of the enemy's E state.

Don't get roped. You can follow the enemy up, but know when to quit so that you don't find yourself flopping around with no speed and no control. Again, this requires the ability to recognize the enemy's E state. I'll often follow the enemy up a bit, roll over and offer him what he thinks will be an easy shot. I then barrel-roll out of his sightline and catch him when he overshoots. I'll also present the enemy with what looks like an opportunity for a shot, only to tighten my turn just enough that he can't bring guns to bear. 99 times out of a hundred, this will convince him to turn harder. When he does, he burns E. If he gets slow, the SBD will gobble him up.

I could write paragraph after paragraph on how to fly the SBD effectively as a fighter. However, I have 3 minute and 6 minute films that will show much of what can be done with the Dauntless. I was flying with Black70, who has been playing for several months. He comes to the TA to practice and develop his skills. He was not prepared for the SBD (the majority of Aces High players would do no better than he did, mind you). Top tier pilots would realize that an aggressive SBD is likely being flown by someone who can fully exploit it and would not get sucked into a turning fight, fighting like it was a Zero rather than a dive bomber. That means maintaining a big E advantage, using energy or BnZ tactics to defeat the slow, poor-climbing SBD. This works well, but only if the SBD does not have an E advantage to begin with. Keep this in your head as it is the gospel: An SBD with altitude is as dangerous as any fighter. If you're flying in the MA and look up and see an SBD up high, it indicates one of two possibilities. Either the pilot is afraid of being intercepted, or he's hunting... If it's the latter, you'll need to be very careful not to find yourself carrying your testicles home in a box.

Here's the films:

SBD1 (http://home.att.net/~historyzone/SBD.ahf)
SBD2 (http://home.att.net/~historyzone/SBD2.ahf)

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Laurie on January 14, 2007, 12:16:31 PM
it sukcs they dont show it on the british history channel, would love to see an episode tho
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: 1cemanVS on January 14, 2007, 02:11:41 PM
they dont? i thought it was "the history channel" didnt realise it had regions

http://www.radiotimes.com lists the UK's history channel website as http://www.thehistorychannel.com, and they show "dogfights"

atleast that is what my research uncovered...its just on at a stupid time here..
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Laurie on January 14, 2007, 03:11:55 PM
o kool, stupid sky+ tv guide, should look closer lol
,cheers
Title: Re: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: crockett on January 14, 2007, 03:45:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Anyone see tonight's episode?  It told the story of a SBD Dauntless pilot (can't remember how to spell his name but his nickname was "Swede") that was jumped by a Zero and was forced to dog fight.  The fight later evolved into a 2v1 and then a 3v1 and lasted close to 20 minutes.  Incredible story and what an amazing fight.  The Dauntless was able to hold it's own against the 3 Zeros and managed to down all three of them and make it home.  The Dauntless pilot was later transfered over to fighters and flew the Wildcat and I think was the first US pilot to down 7 enemy fighters in one fight.  The second story was about a B-17 bomber, Old 666 that was attacked by 17 Japanese fighters while on a photo recce mission.  Unfortunately for the Japanese they attacked what as then the most heavily armed B-17 in the Pacific with no less then 19 .50 cal machine guns including a nose mounted one that was fired by the pilot.  The crew was the most highly decorated crew in the war, 2 CMHs and 7 DFCs and downed 3 Japanese fighters before the Japanese fighters had to break off due to fuel.

I guess the moral of the story is that within every bomber pilot is a fighter pilot itching to get out.


ack-ack


Yea I watched it and recorded it.. was one of the best dogfight episodes yet. I would have hated to be the back seater during all those high G turns. Can you say barf bag please..
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: crockett on January 14, 2007, 03:47:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Roscoroo
yea it was way Cool ... Triple 6 Rocked !!!  oh yea The AH commercial on the History channel ... ABout Frelling time !!! Woo hoo .

(Way more exposure on the history channel ...its on basic cable everywere ) :aok


It's been airing for at least a month or two.. It's what made me decide to sign up.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: crockett on January 14, 2007, 03:50:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Max
Anyone know who produces the graphic animations? Looks uncannily like AH.


They are doing the show using Microsoft's newest flight sim.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: slowstick on January 14, 2007, 04:19:57 PM
I recorded every dogfight since they have started the series. Some excellent instructions and manuevers in there
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: 1cemanVS on January 14, 2007, 04:30:08 PM
recorded on what? any possible way of hosting them for download/stream? no? yes? pleeeeaase?

hehe

cant do reading, my imagination sucks :lol
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Treize69 on January 14, 2007, 05:47:54 PM
I have most of them recorded on Windows Media Center, I can try to e-mail them if anyone with the program is interested. Drop me a PM.

I have-
Flying Tigers
Guadalcanal
Hell over Hanoi
The Zero Killer
Air Ambush
The Last Gunfighter
MiG Alley
Death of the Japanese Navy
Long Odds
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: slowstick on January 14, 2007, 06:26:03 PM
recorded on dvd, lol. I wouldn't have a clue how to host them to a download stream

Quote
Originally posted by 1cemanVS
recorded on what? any possible way of hosting them for download/stream? no? yes? pleeeeaase?

hehe

cant do reading, my imagination sucks :lol
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Brooke on January 14, 2007, 09:05:30 PM
It's a great series.  Finally, a show that doesn't totally botch the way the planes fly.

And the stories are excellent.

However, I don't think they are using any flight sim to do it.  They seem to be using their own CGI stuff -- at least so it seems according to their own 2-minute minidocumentary on their "behind the scenes" work.

It's available here:

http://www.history.com/minisite.do?content_type=Minisite_Video_Clips&content_type_id=51912&display_order=3&mini_id=51833
Title: Stars Aligned
Post by: Chilli on January 15, 2007, 11:17:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Coronado
let's face it...3 zekes on an SBD??  and the SBD kills them???  they deserved to die.


:noid   Swede probably had his stars all aligned or some other supernatural force, but the man had 'mad' skillz.  He used every bit of the planes superior construction and pulled off the proper tactics at the right time.  He pretty much looked like Superman just enduring the G forces.  I guess the only thing that he wasn't able to do was to allow his rear gunner a shot with .30 cals (recall that he could barely hold on to his gun - If I were him, would definitely be thanking manufacturers for open canopy:rolleyes: ).  

17 mins or Dogfighting - - the result:  Toughest man + Toughest machine = an honorable death for any attacker who doesn't run away.  In this show the zeke pilots were not without their tricks either, I believe they were "outmanned".

As a post note to the story. they added that Swede repeated his high performance in another aircraft only a few weeks after that sortie.:aok
Title: Re: Stars Aligned
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 15, 2007, 01:14:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Chilli

As a post note to the story. they added that Swede repeated his high performance in another aircraft only a few weeks after that sortie.:aok


Yep, after the Navy brass realized he would be better in fighters and transfered him to a Wildcat squadron and bagged 7 Japanese fighters in one sortie.

On a side note...I would have loved to hear or at least read the rear gunner's thoughts about the fight with the 3 Japanese Zeros.  


ack-ack
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Quah! on January 16, 2007, 09:48:54 AM
As much as I love the show, since it is the only one like that out there, and about time.  I find it many times inaccurate.

Look closely at the last show regarding the SBD fight.  Stanly said they set him up in a scissors.  The animation did not show a scissors it showed some stupid oval race track.  IMH you would think they would do a little research.  Even the 3 month noob here knows what a scissors is.

Then the other thing that makes me laugh, is the best dogfight on the show is between an SBD and three Zekes.  LOLH all the other engagements are Hoing runners.  Which is totally understandable when your arse is really on the line.  Guys who use this bollocks in the game are pretty much laughable.

Also I think the animation leaves a lot to be desired.  When they show the planes turning they don't look like they are flying at all; jerky segmented 180 degree pulls don't look smooth like they normally would be.

All in all they have a great idea, but it is poorly executed.  Cool to hear from the Vets tho.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: crockett on January 16, 2007, 03:54:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Quah!
As much as I love the show, since it is the only one like that out there, and about time.  I find it many times inaccurate.

Look closely at the last show regarding the SBD fight.  Stanly said they set him up in a scissors.  The animation did not show a scissors it showed some stupid oval race track.  IMH you would think they would do a little research.  Even the 3 month noob here knows what a scissors is.

Then the other thing that makes me laugh, is the best dogfight on the show is between an SBD and three Zekes.  LOLH all the other engagements are Hoing runners.  Which is totally understandable when your arse is really on the line.  Guys who use this bollocks in the game are pretty much laughable.

Also I think the animation leaves a lot to be desired.  When they show the planes turning they don't look like they are flying at all; jerky segmented 180 degree pulls don't look smooth like they normally would be.

All in all they have a great idea, but it is poorly executed.  Cool to hear from the Vets tho.


I noticed that as well while watching it. Maybe they were referring to the part of the scissors you stick your finger in.. :D
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Raptor on January 16, 2007, 07:12:49 PM
only thing I don't like is when they say "And then he let out a short burst with his machine guns..." and the animation shows a 1-minute long burst.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Brooke on January 16, 2007, 07:59:53 PM
I've seen a lot of animated or CGI depictions of air combat.  For all its faults, Dogfights does a vastly superior job in realistic movement of the planes and depiction of the action.  In comparison, it is very good.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Roadr on January 16, 2007, 08:26:27 PM
Maytbe HC should portray OTHER views besides the Allies.  Many from other aces, like um, one of the best still alive,  Gunther Rall?  I just get tired of hearing how, " the .50s had a better punch" BS... I take a 30mm anyday....
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: slowstick on January 16, 2007, 08:46:28 PM
just for the record, that stupid oval race track as you call it is actually called a wagon wheel. It was and still is a manuever. The idea being no matter what the enemy plans does, someone can get on their 6
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: pluck on January 16, 2007, 08:54:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by crockett
I noticed that as well while watching it. Maybe they were referring to the part of the scissors you stick your finger in.. :D


heh.

i really enjoy watching those episodes, maybe not so much for the historical aspect as much as for the fun.  when i want history, i'll read a book:) or ask guppy/corkyjr.  i also think not everyone who watches that show knows half as much as many of the pile its here.  though then again, a quick trip to the MA may say a different story:)

what would be great is if AH graphics where state of the art, as on the show, and he gave us all computers and HD monitors to run them on......all for $15/month.  it's really good idea HT, i strongly think you should consider it;)
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: jedi25 on January 16, 2007, 09:09:18 PM
What a guys who knows how to handle a SDB...I am inspired to fly this plane..
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: wabbit on January 18, 2007, 10:23:14 PM
I agree that some of the graphics showing turns and such are a bit off looking, but it's the best show of that type available and the episodes are excellent training vids.

Not so sure the SBD's maneuver was a wagon wheel though. It sure didn't look like what the series depicts in another episode. Didn't look like a scissors either, so I can't say just what maneuver it was.

There are ten episodes so far. I've managed to get them all by recording them on my system and then burning them as a regular DVD.

For those of you who'd like copies, I'll look into trying to find somewhere I could upload them in 'ISO' format so people could download them and then burn them to DVD.

Don't shout for joy just yet, though. Even after I zip/rar them, they will be massive. You will almost certainly have to have high-speed to download them in any decent timeframe, if you can at all.

It'll take me a day or so to figure out if it's possible, but don't get yer hopes up. I'll post back here if I'm able to find somewhere to upload an episode

Wabb
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: TequilaChaser on January 19, 2007, 12:03:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by wabbit
I'll look into trying to find somewhere I could upload them in 'ISO' format so people could download them and then burn them to DVD.

Don't shout for joy just yet, though. Even after I zip/rar them, they will be massive. You will almost certainly have to have high-speed to download them in any decent timeframe, if you can at all.




might want to look into the following programs if wabbit does this for ya'll

PowerISO   or
Alcohol120%   or
Blindwrite   &
WinRAR    and  maybe ConvertXtoDVD

will make it so much easier for  unzipping and then burning to DVD

btw: HistoryChannel.com  sells each episode on DVD and more than likely offer them as  sets in the future........
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Quah! on January 19, 2007, 09:54:05 AM
Quote
just for the record, that stupid oval race track as you call it is actually called a wagon wheel. It was and still is a manuever. The idea being no matter what the enemy plans does, someone can get on their 6


Uhhhh Just for the record your completely wrong, it was not a Wagon Wheel.  A wagon wheel is a defensive maneuver and the Zekes were on the offensive.  How many wagons had oval wheels.  LOLHAY WTF

Next time you are in a fight in the MA you start doing your circle jerk maneuver  and tell me how long you last.  LOLH


Quote
I've seen a lot of animated or CGI depictions of air combat. For all its faults, Dogfights does a vastly superior job in realistic movement of the planes and depiction of the action. In comparison, it is very good.


So have I and I will have to disagree with you here, hell HTC does a better job in the film viewer then Dogfights CGI team is doing.  The flyby shots are nice, but the chase views are not.  Sorry I would rather see less eye candy and more accuracy.

Quote
i really enjoy watching those episodes, maybe not so much for the historical aspect as much as for the fun. when i want history, i'll read a book or ask guppy/corkyjr. i also think not everyone who watches that show knows half as much as many of the pile its here.

LOL Pluck, sorry bud, but when I tune into the History channel I expect historically accurate programming, wouldn't you think??  Don't you get tired of your world being dummied down for the other half.  Why is it people are satisfied with half arsed crap these days.  Different strokes I guess.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Kweassa on January 19, 2007, 10:03:03 AM
Quote
I've seen a lot of animated or CGI depictions of air combat. For all its faults, Dogfights does a vastly superior job in realistic movement of the planes and depiction of the action. In comparison, it is very good.


 They should have hired "tochy" to do the job.

 You guys remember him, right?
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Tabasco on January 19, 2007, 11:02:34 AM
Yes, tochy did immaculate CGI stuff.  But I can't seem to find that site anymore.  I had it at http://www.angel.ne.jp/~tochy/index.htm, and I've Googled it, but no go.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Tabasco on January 19, 2007, 11:35:09 AM
Ah, here we go...

http://www.k4.dion.ne.jp/~suppon/
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Quah! on January 19, 2007, 11:48:55 AM
Nice now that is decent CGI.  Unfortunately puts Dogfights to shame.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: Brooke on January 19, 2007, 05:24:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Quah!
So have I and I will have to disagree with you here, hell HTC does a better job in the film viewer then Dogfights CGI team is doing.  The flyby shots are nice, but the chase views are not.  Sorry I would rather see less eye candy and more accuracy.


I'm not comparing Dogfights to a flight sim or to Touchy's stuff (which is awesome).  I'm comparing it to any TV show I've seen, about air combat, that uses CGI to show the motion of the planes.  Every one that I've seen has a much, much greater lack of realistic movement compared to Dogfights.  If you've seen a show or a series that has better CGI motion (in terms of realism) for aicraft, I'd please let me know, as I'd like to have my Tivo hunt for it.
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: wabbit on January 20, 2007, 01:18:54 PM
It looks like I won't be able to upload the 'Dogfights' episodes after all. I tried a number of ways with no success.

It turns out to be almost impossible for me to upload the zipped files safely. I've tried a number of upload sites, but had no success.  The upload speeds were terrible and in many cases failed before finishing.

I'll take a look into bittorrent and see if I can do anything through them. If I have any luck I'll post here and let everyone know the details.


Sorry!

Wabbit
Title: Dog fights on the History channel
Post by: DES on January 22, 2007, 05:50:27 PM
I've put some races up in the following site before I started using usenet.

http://www.mininova.org/