Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: humble on January 15, 2007, 12:05:12 PM
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flew a B pony "dawn patrol" {more like 9am:)} and thought it might be helpful to some in a few ways....
Basically is 4 fights over 15 min or so....I'd taken eggs since arena cap but me in relatively unpopulated arena and had dumped em on field. A few brief comments...
fight 1)
Bounced nikki taking off, not a bad basic E fighter primer. Note E control on "merge" I'm waiting for him to break...three tightening passes (with defense after pass 2). Even with out ack I'd have disengaged since it was getting to be "his fight" not mine. Good set up but poor gunnery (typical for me).
fight 2)
Higher P-38, obviously someone going thru the learning curve (dont we all). you can see me moving from lag to lead kind of feeling the B pony out.
fight 3)
2nd high 38....pretty good E defense. I have no interest in getting cute since pony has none of the defensive capabilities of the hog and my gunnery wont hold up in a "one timer" in the B. Good feel (IMO) for the in and out of plane transitions needed to work thru to getting the upper hand.
fight 4)
hi lala
Biggest thing here I think is "denying" the looping fight and putting him back on my 6...vs getting sucked in to a fight I couldnt win. That sets up a chance to "reverse" and enter whats called a two cirlce fight (where we meet nose to nose) vs the typical "one circle" where both planes are flying "chase" arounf the same circle. This creates front quarter shots (which are NOT head on's). I need to deny either one or two by transitioning out of plane. The shot setup is prettty good. you can see me holding the nose about 30 degree out of plane and judging his capabilities intent then rolling in plane to take a pretty good canopy shot (second burst gets tail).
baby steps (http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/babysteps.ahf)
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Nice film.
One thing about a La7 and P-51B matchup...IIRC, the La7 has a quicker turn rate but a slightly larger turn radius than the P-51B, which would always put the La7 crossing in front of your nose on a 2 circle turn fight or even in a loop fight. It's my preferred method of killing La7s in a P-38J.
ack-ack
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Snaphook,
Great film.... Great ACM and SA... IMHO....
Wish that I could be that heads up
Not to be overlooked was your E management. You had not one but 2 fights where your opponents had an Alt adv and you effectively neuterd them both.
I'd like to know where you set your conv for the ponyB?
4XTCH
P.S. Always remember to highlight your wingman in White.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/1064_1168681844_image00625.jpg)
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LOL! that picture always makes me laugh. I love the smile on your oldest boy, it's priceless.
ack-ack
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lol. younger lad looks a bit guilty, older one has a definite glint of defiance, i think he knows what hes done but still finds it amusing(good lad)
good looking kids you got there mate, make sure you show this pic to thier first girlfriends :)
back on topic, good film snap (like usual)
of all of that i cant help thinking you still had more fight in you with the nik, although youre right about playing into his plane's strengths. not a bad decision to bug out for sure, those 4 cannon dont forgive quickly.
i geuss you suffer the same as I do when limited to 4 guns.
you know its wierd, in the FM2 i find the guns to be more than enough, yet with the exact same gun package i feel under gunned in a pony with out 6 guns.
relative firing times are varied between fm2 and pony, of course i see that part, but mostly i fly the same style and make or miss the same type of shots in the two planes.
definitely all in the head.
S!
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
you know its wierd, in the FM2 i find the guns to be more than enough, yet with the exact same gun package i feel under gunned in a pony with out 6 guns.
Yes, I am the same way. I think it's the placement; on the P-51, the guns seem to be spaced farther apart.
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you may have just nailed it first go, i have never looked at the spacings on the two different wings in any detail.
:aok
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The ack is wizzing around so I had to break off, but normally I fly roughly 3 tightening passes then break if i'm E fighting. He came back up into me after the 2nd pass pretty sharply. I'm pretty good at beating a nikki in a straight angles fight in the pony....but countering a good defense is much tougher (at least for me). Since I scored no telling damage on the 3 passes I was in regroup mode anyway. Had he not flown back in ack (and then actually landed I believe) i'd have reengaged. I agree completely on FM-2 vs B pony. Sure seems like the FM2 hits harder:)
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i wasnt having a go at you for the nik fight snap and i understand your moves completely, i know you know that though :)
about to log into orange or blue depending on the cap, orange will try first, hope to see you on we should stop trolling the boards and go kill some stuff.
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Humbles goood
at evertything but shooting a con off my six, he claims poor gunnery.
changin my sig to "bait no more"
truth be told:
I have learned more winging with this man than i EVER needed to know....
I hope i can always be so Humble
PS the films dont hurt a bit
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
i wasnt having a go at you for the nik fight snap and i understand your moves completely, i know you know that though :)
about to log into orange or blue depending on the cap, orange will try first, hope to see you on we should stop trolling the boards and go kill some stuff.
your 100% right, ignoring the ack issue I did have the clear advantage. but also was out of sync and not converting my shots. those are exactly the fightd where you miss or just wing the guy and get sawed in half:):O
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Originally posted by McDeath
Humbles goood
at evertything but shooting a con off my six, he claims poor gunnery.
changin my sig to "bait no more"
truth be told:
I have learned more winging with this man than i EVER needed to know....
I hope i can always be so Humble
PS the films dont hurt a bit
Hehe my gunnery leaves a bit to be desired....but I try:)....
glad to teach you "stupid"...hopefully it works better for you then it does for me.:aok
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Nice film.
One thing about a La7 and P-51B matchup...IIRC, the La7 has a quicker turn rate but a slightly larger turn radius than the P-51B, which would always put the La7 crossing in front of your nose on a 2 circle turn fight or even in a loop fight. It's my preferred method of killing La7s in a P-38J.
ack-ack
Curious what your thoughts are on denying the loop fight there. To me that split second "go/no go" E fighting decision is the toughest to call correctly. When in doubt I just fly the "under" and accept an inferior position vs trying to hang in a vertical fight I cant win. I dont fly the pony or 38 enough to really have a feel for how far I can push it in that regard. My gut feel was simply one of this wont turn out to well so I pushed the nose down and went to "plan B".
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Hey, Humble I'm going through the film at the moment and a question popped into my head between about 4:30 and 4:55 you're closing on the P38 as it's passing from right to left in front of you and you do a little sequence of pull up, roll and go down, and then back up. Why is this? is this just to slow your rate of closure by taking a slight longer than straight line at the 38? Or some other reason? Couldn't you have achieved the same effect by closing the throttle? Am I just missing something?
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I think thats the 1st 38 clip, to be honest i'm just fooling around switching from hi to lo yoyo's. more my feeling out the pony then anything else.
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:lol
I suppose that's a good a reason as any. :)
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Originally posted by humble
Curious what your thoughts are on denying the loop fight there. To me that split second "go/no go" E fighting decision is the toughest to call correctly. When in doubt I just fly the "under" and accept an inferior position vs trying to hang in a vertical fight I cant win. I dont fly the pony or 38 enough to really have a feel for how far I can push it in that regard. My gut feel was simply one of this wont turn out to well so I pushed the nose down and went to "plan B".
Strictly speaking from a P-38 driver's view. What you did in the fight against the La7 could have also been done in a loop fight. In most cases, if the P-38 pilot doesn't flub it up, will have a shot on the La7 as it is climbing out from the bottom part of the loop. As you're doing the loop, lower flaps as necessary and you'll loop tighter (because you've got a better turning radius) than the La7. You can kind of lag the loop by raising one notch of flaps and you should be able to get an angle as the La7 is going over the top of the loop. This angle provides an excellent shot opportunity to the engine, cockpit, wings, wing root area and pretty much the entire upper fuselage. If the La7 tries a High Yo-Yo instead of a loop, you'll also have a nice angle as the La7's nose starts to point down as it comes out of the High Yo-Yo.
Just be warned that 99.9999999% of the time the other pilot will cry "HO!" and others will claim it was a cheap shot because you decided to use ACM instead of being a "knight of the sky".
ack-ack
ack-ack