Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Neubob on January 16, 2007, 06:52:39 AM
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see what you think (http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/onlinegamblingprohibition )
I'm signing this one. Hopefully, some of you might also.
If not, I'm curious as to why.
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gambling of any sort is good why?
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Gambling is far from illegal in this country. For online gambling to be rightfully illegal, the burden of proof is on you to prove why it is bad.
Good is a relative term. It's good because it will make tax dollars off of an activity that, at the moment, is punishable. I'd say that it's better to make revenue than it is to make criminals, especially when then outlet for the need to gamble is and will remain readily available in settings where the government cannot control it.
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gambling is fine with me... it is the penalty greedy people pay for never learning math but... fine with me. Tough on the kids but... none of my business.
Far more important things to sign petitions for tho.
lazs
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I don't know, Lazs, you're always railing against bigger and deeper government control.
This may be a small brick, but it's part of the same house.
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Originally posted by Eagler
gambling of any sort is good why?
government telling me how I can spend my hard earned money is good why?
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I think you may not be looking at things at more than a surface level there rolex... You do make for a fun analogy but pretty flawed.
Would you say that the average horse track better makes the same return as the average stock market investor or... that the money did the same for the economy?
I have nothing against gambling. It is dumb and it is an addiction that ruins many lives but it it none of my business... people will destroy themselves in any of a number of ways... I do it mine you do it yours. I would not meddle.
I am not for government sponsored gambling like the lottery tho. Or, for special gambling favors like indian gambling.
lazs
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truth be told, the US and the States simply want to control internet gambling in order to get a piece of the action. trying to prohibit it is the first step. naturally, existing legal gambling outlets in the US are pushing for this, as well as those who oppose it on moral grounds.
I won't sign the petition to make it legal though. i think a person ought to have to get up off their prettythang and go someplace to gamble. and the idea of being able to gamble naked - it just seems wrong.
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The only reason they made it illegal was due to too many politicians losing thier butts while playing. :)
That's the problem with the online gambling though. Hard to know who you have to let win to keep the skids greased.
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No law against it here, thank goodness. With betting shops beside ever pub and horse racing a huge industry here, it would be like taking a gun off Lazs if they tried to ban it here.
Besides I make a nice little income form betting on horses online. Before you come back with old cliches about mug punters and gambling addictions etc. I know I make money because I write down my bets and keep records. You can't fool yourself when you keep records. I've made about 20k in the last five years, not much but better in my pockets than the bookies. :D
I know a few pro punters who make quite a living from it. I could too but it's just a little precarious for my taste. Losing runs happen :cry But like playing the stock market it's all about knowledge and getting value for your money.
There is nothing quite so satisfying as making a weeks pay while lying in bed, not naked though Gunthr;)
Never did understand, America's rather po faced attitude to gambling, particulary with so many race tracks in the country and some of the best horse racing in the world.
Now I'm off to place my bets for tomorrow. :t
They are 1:30 Don't push it and Ice Melted 2:35 Newbury. They'll probably fall now :furious
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I'd say that it's better to make revenue than it is to make criminals
This could be the underlying issue right here. There are no US held interests in the online gaming, all the money leaves the US.
I enjoy gaming, I won't play online because I don't trust the entities that are backing the games with my money or financial information. If you trust them, have a blast.
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I'm not interested in gambling and I'm not interested in people that gamble.
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Originally posted by Yeager
I'm not interested in gambling and I'm not interested in people that gamble.
and yet you read and posted in a thread about gambling... odd...
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Originally posted by ROC
This could be the underlying issue right here. There are no US held interests in the online gaming, all the money leaves the US.
BINGO!
horse tracks, dog tracks, vegas, AC, riverboats, indian places, lotteries, etc. all benefit the state in some way or another (mostly taxes). it's not suprising that those aren't under attack.
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IIRC, the Fed law merely said online gambling was illegal in states where gambling was not legal.
In other words, it would be legal in Nevada for instance.
Did I miss something there? Because if this is true, the Feds just tossed the decision on to the states...where it rightfully belongs.
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i think you are correct, Toad. but any state laws that directly outlaw internet gambling are ineffectual. i dont' think there is a single person successfully prosecuted for it due to the jurisdictional problem of defining "where" the "internet" is.
most laws against it are tangental, like the fed law that makes it illegal to be a US citizen and operate an off shore internet-based wagering site where people in those US states where gambling is illegal, can access it.
There has been only one arrest pursuant to that law that i've heard of - a guy running an operation in Costa Rica - and then only because he visited the states and got busted walking off the plane. there are other laws that target the use of pay pal and credit cards used for internet gambling purposes... i think these are the ones that Neubob refers to... those laws, if widely implemented, could have a real effect on internet gambling.
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Nonetheless, it would seem the correct way to attack this is simply to legalize gambling at the state level.
At least, it seems that way to me. I hate to see the Feds getting into anything more; we've way more laws than we need or use but every year Congress meets to dream up a few more.
So, you can cut the Feds right out of the pattern simply by passing a gambling law in your state. Then the Feds are SOL.
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I don't think that's correct, Toad. My understanding is this, but I haven't put a lot of energy into it:
It is now a federal crime to offer non-sports betting to US citizens.
If any state ever did issue a license for on-line gambling (no state has ever issued one) to a company, they could only offer it to people within that state. The problem would be that the internet connection may traverse outside the state enroute, which would make it a federal crime.
The laws prohibiting credit card and other forms of electronic payment (paypal) for gambling are federal laws, not state laws.
Search engines cannot even provide links to gambing sites, as it is considered to be abetting a federal crime.
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Originally posted by Rolex
Search engines cannot even provide links to gambing sites, as it is considered to be abetting a federal crime.
Not so sure about that.
google search "online betting" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=online+betting)
The whole issue of having the laws but not enforcing them seems very suspicious and inefficient to me.
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The problem is that this is a clear issue of states rights vs. federal control. In the past, gambling has been one of those things left up to the states for the most part. The only time the feds get involved is when problems cross state lines and to collect taxes on gambling winnings. Now however, we have the federal government taking the questionable step of trying to regulate and enforce not only state laws, but international laws simply because the internet makes this particular form of interstate commerce very easy to do from home.
Why does the internet force the federal government to interfere with something that has been left to the states for so long? Not only that, what does it do to the relationship the federal and state govts have had with gambling on protected indian reservations?
As an example, let's say a guy from a state where gambling is not legal, to another state where gambling is not legal, goes to a reservation, logs onto the hotel internet connection and gambles online? And then what happens when they take their winnings home and file state/fed taxes on gambling winnings, since those winnings were not actually earned through licensed gambling activities on the reservation?
Basically it's a fool's errand the fed govt has embarked on, interfering in an activity that has been, and should remain, a matter for the states to decide. Short of dismantling the entire internet, there isn't really a good way for the feds to regulate this and their attempt not only is one more intrusion on daily life, it's not going to be particularly effective except to irritate otherwise law-abiding citizens.
I'm convinced that there are so many intruding federal laws that everyone in the US is either a felon, or will be shortly. I accidentally took a multi-tool on an airline flight in my carry-on bag a year or two ago... Now I know what it feels like to be a felon and knowing that my govt has labeled my everyday, non-violent and not "anti-social" behavior as criminal has immeasurably decreased my respect for the laws of the United States. I'm not the only one.
I can't imagine what that 4 year old felony sexual predator (the one who got charged with sexual assault for hugging his teacher) is going to grow up thinking about our so-called nation of laws...
We're changing from a nation that obeys laws out of a sense of honor and duty to a nation that routinely hides daily violations of law and obeys only out of fear of consequences when they think they might get caught. That's very sad. The next step is what the UK is going through, where entire classes of people commit violent anti-social offenses simply because there are no consequences, because the govt is busy coming up with ways to harass people who are otherwise law abiding.
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Poker is deemed a game of skill so this pathetic ban on Americans gambling online was bypassed for we poker players. For you sports bettors that just got screwed on the 15th use one of the websites offering proxy connections and create a new account. I have some friends doing that and it works fine, business as usual for them.
It's sad that the Goverment tried to ban gambling instead of just getting a piece of the pie which is the damn reason this all came up. If they can't have a piece no one can I guess.
For anyone wanting to play poker pokerstars is still legal for Americans to play on.
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Well put and sadly true, eagl.
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cpxx... my guess is that if you had put a third of the effort into the research you did on the horses into something else you would have made one hell of a lot more than 4k a year at it.
For me... gamblers are just sick, sad people fighting the losing battle of a lifetime addiction. Some manage to get away from it and some manage to control it for years or even over a lifetime but all are on a roller coaster that only addiction can bring.
I have no problem with them having full access to their addiction tho so long as it doesn't screw with my rights.
lazs
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A gambling addiction can be as strong as alcoholism or drug addiction. One thing that really bothers me is when gas station attendants are required to ask everyone if they would like an instant ticket. What they are doing is hoping to prey on someone's addiction. Is this morally better than asking everyone who walks through the door if they would like a six pack this evening in the hope that the person is a recovering alcoholic that just needs that one little nudge to tip the scale? What is the difference between that and asking everyone if they would like a pack of cigarettes hoping that they just quit last week and are teetering on the edge of insanity?
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Originally posted by lazs2
cpxx... my guess is that if you had put a third of the effort into the research you did on the horses into something else you would have made one hell of a lot more than 4k a year at it.
For me... gamblers are just sick, sad people fighting the losing battle of a lifetime addiction. Some manage to get away from it and some manage to control it for years or even over a lifetime but all are on a roller coaster that only addiction can bring.
I have no problem with them having full access to their addiction tho so long as it doesn't screw with my rights.
lazs
Trouble is. I don't do that much research, less time than I spend in Aces High, more time in the O club. It's more of a hobby. I could make a living out of it if I wanted too. But to be honest it would be a bit boring. I don't get a buzz out of winning the way a compulsive gambler does. You see those guys in betting shops, betting on horses, dogs and even virtual racing. I actually hate slot machines. What on earth is the attraction?
As for my tips, well Ice melted got beat into second by the one danger in my book.:cry The other one was a non runner. Never mind. :cool:
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Yep... all the adds for the lottery and such seem sooooooo sleazy...
especially given the fact that the state is preying on the poor dumb bastards that have their math education (if you can call it that) by the state run public schools...
like shooting ducks in a barrel.
lazs
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cpxxx, if you are doing that good, hey - stick with those ponys.
all my money is scared money, according to my associate, who makes 5 calls a day to make wagers. I don't wager that much. ohh, maybe a $20 bill in the slots with the indians now and then, but i'm full of regrets if i lose.
g'luck
g