Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hornet33 on January 16, 2007, 11:36:08 AM
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OK I have a question here. What do people consider a HO??? I got accused last night of HO'ing someone (no names) and I don't think it was a HO.
First off I want to define what I believe a HO is. 2 planes come into icon range and turn into each other. From 5k out a game of chicken starts where both planes are flying straight towards one anouther and both planes open fire at 1k and try to kill each other.
In that situation I normally do not open fire since it is an obvious HO and is just un cool in my opinion. I can normally avoid the shots from the other plane and then manuver to a gun solution.
Last night however, I was on the outer edge of a furball in an A6M5b. I had just arrived at the fight and was looking at the situation to see what I could do. I rolled up on my right wing, looked down and saw a fellow Knight with a spit on his tail geting ready to pass under me. I rolled inverted and pulled towards the deck and lined myself up for a crossing shot on the spit. He saw me setting him up and he pulled up into me, however I was able to tighten my turn to lead his plane and opened up at 200 as he crossed my nose. Landed several 20mm hits in his cockpit and he blew up. Next thing I know I'm getting pm'd and he's telling me I HO'd him.
Now to my way of thinking, if your already in a turn fight and your manuvering and you all of a sudden end up face to face with a plane and get shot in the face, that's NOT a HO, as neither pilot really had time to set it up that way. It's a quick reaction shot to a sudden target in your sights.
Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I shouldn't have taken that shot but my fellow Knight got away, I got a kill, and managed to get home with it.
Opinions????
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I am still looking for the help file that defines all the ways it is proper and improper to 'kill' somebody in this game.
Ignore him. You kilt him and hurt his 'peelings.
Regards,
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If both planes have a 0 angular advantage, i.e. both have a gun solution, then it is a HO. You could probably put in a cushion of say 5 degrees to account for lag. Anything else is a good deflection shot.
What most people complain about is when an opponents only maneuver is to turn nose on to you and fire as you cross. I'm not saying that this isn't a valid tactic but if this is his only maneuver any half way decent pilot will eventually defeat him if he can avoid the face shot.
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2 schools of thought on this.
Nose to nose, both have a shot= HO
or
Any shot that is not within 90 degrees of being directly behind the guy= HO
The second one I think is just BS, but, like the collision myths, it's gaining in popularity nevertheless.
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Well according to Suave. *snicker*
If you are in front of his 3-9 line you hoed him.*snork*
You should now go back and learn some A..........:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Sorry couldn't finish that was to dang funny.
You got the kill in a furball where anything goes.
So just the dummy so it steams him more.
Bronk
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HO is just another way to say frontal shot. Some people will get their panties all bound up if you call their frontal shot a ho though. Aparently the term ho carries some video game nerd stigma.
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HI Suave , where is that navy data sheet?
Bronk
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What are you talking about ?
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You said the navy calls 45 degree front quarter shots HOs.
I want to see the documentation.
Bronk
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So I'm supposed to find it for you?
Do pushups.
See I can tell you what to do on the internet too.
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Tough to call anything a HO in a furball. That fact that the guy is in the furball tends to take away from the idea that he is a HO shooter.
To me the HO is the guy in the LA7, N1K, or even Hurri IIc with all the cannon, that lights up his wings 1K or more out and makes no attempt to do anything else. Nose to nose.
Lots of guys will get kills with snapshots as the other guy is trying to pull his nose in on him. The top of the engine, the cockpit and beyond get hit. Sometimes to the guy on the recieving end that can look like a nose to nose shot.
Best advice it to just not worry about it. Folks are going to HO. It's up to you if you want to be one of those folks.
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Suave you stated it as fact. The burden of proof is on you.
Ohh I see because you say it it must be true ehh?
So story teller care to provide proof .
Or is the moon made of cheese because i just said so?
Bronk
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Here's Bob Shaw's definition: "...the forward-quarter (FQ) intercept is one in which the interceptor approaches from the target's forward quarter. A special case of the FQ intercept is the head-on approach, where the interceptor reduces displacement to zero and the two aircraft converge 'beak-to-beak'. "
I posted this in the other "ho" thread...
Some rambling thoughts:
(1) Defining HO's reminds me very much of the definition of ACM. In the USAF ACM has a strict definition and that is used for maneuvers in a 2v1 where aircraft are working in concert. Yet people here use ACM to mean 1v1 maneuvering. So in the same way folks will call Forward Quarter shots HO's.
(2) A face shot is a face shot no matter if you're 0 lead angle off the nose going "beak to beak" or if the shooter has 60 degree lead angle off of the bandit's nose. The target is being shot in the forward quarter.
(3) There's no shame in taking a HO or forward quarter shot. A shot is a shot. The object is to shoot the other guy down. Take what you can get.
(4) Getting a forward quarter shot or HO is independent of your skill in air combat. You might have used all the tactics and maneuvers in the world to get that shot. You might not have.
(5) If I happen to be the one being hit in the front quarter, my plane is the flight path of my advesary's bullets. Whether I like it or not I've maneuverd my plane into a position to get hit in the front quarter either unintentionally or by choice. If I don't like that then I should figure out ways I can stay out of the flight path of the bullets next time!
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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When i can shoot you and you can shoot me.
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Thank you dtango.
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A true HO is a full front aspect shot based on linear in plane manuevering. just that simple. Basically both planes are flying right at each other. there are actually stories in WW2 of planes colliding playing "chicken". Looked at more broadly any shot initiated during an initial merge is considered a "HO" by most {including me}. This line blurs based on E state and initial positioning. At some point you stop having a merge and actually have a "lead turn". Historically a "face shot" is any shot facilitated on the merge thru an early lead turn that leads to a front aspect shot [ahead of the 3,9 line]. The closer to a frontal shot the clearer the face shot....as your angle approaches closer to the 3,9 line the closer to a true "snapshot you come.
Many ex Aw players view the "remerge" in a duel as a 2nd "HO" free zone. This comes from poor ACM where the "safe" bet was a 2nd nuetral merge. In reality managing the fight to either get around or avoid a bad shot scenario is critical to success (not meaning that many including myself will decline these in a duel). Many times these "HO's" are nothing but quality looks earned thru proper ACM {after all every move has a counter}.
Going to the specific scenario you describe your a picker not a HO'er:aok. The opposing pilot identified you as a threat and made the choice to turn into you. 1st and formost any in plane manuever invites a plane form shot. By definition at some point he has to move thru your shot window. So he broke the fundemental rule that you need to execute an out of plane manuever to defeat a guns solution. Based on relative speed nothing more then either a nose down or nose up control input would have defeated your shot. It may or may not have denied you a second shot....but by pulling into you he created your canopy shot. As a single alternate how about if he had pulled into you then executed a barrel roll.
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If you haven't read this yet. Well that's not something you should tell others. Just read it now and pretend like you read it a long time ago.
http://www.amazon.com/Fighter-Combat-Maneuvering-Robert-Shaw/dp/0870210599
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The term "Head On" give the impression that if no action is taken.
The 2 objects will collide .
Just think what is considered a Head On collision.
If the nose of my car hits the right front quarter of another.
In the Police report It would be written up as XXX car struck xxx car in the right fender.
Still the front of the car but much different than hitting "Head ON".
Tango, Shaw never called it a head on intercept did he.
Front 1/4 big difference.
Any one who calls a front 1/4 shot a HO is a whiner. They are trying to justify why the were shot down.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
Suave you stated it as fact. The burden of proof is on you.
Ohh I see because you say it it must be true ehh?
So story teller care to provide proof .
Or is the moon made of cheese because i just said so?
Bronk
Well if you want to bandy legal terms like a ****house lawyer.. you're wrong again. The burden of proof is on the accuser.
Because you accuse me of not telling the truth I'm supposed to jump through hoops and educate you?
Yeah, don't hold your breath.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Any one who calls a front 1/4 shot a HO is a whiner. They are trying to justify why the were shot down.
Bronk
Anyone who calls a Ho shot a 1/4 shot is a whiner. They are trying to justify why they used a 1/4 shot.
God that simple word HO really gets dweebs worked up.
Whiners
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from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/head%20on
head-on /ˈhɛdˈɒn, -ˈɔn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hed-on, -awn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. (of two objects) meeting with the fronts or heads foremost: a head-on collision.
2. facing the direction of forward motion or alignment; frontal.
3. characterized by direct opposition: a head-on confrontation.
–adverb
4. with the front or head foremost, esp. in a collision: She stepped out of the front door and walked head-on into her husband.
Yea no angles mentioned here.
Bronk
Edit: I hurts Suave feawing so I edited out the nasty insulting derogatory bits.
Is you feewing better now Suave?
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Originally posted by Suave
Anyone who calls a Ho shot a 1/4 shot is a whiner. They are trying to justify why they used a 1/4 shot.
God that simple word HO really gets dweebs worked up.
Whiners
So if a guy gets his nose in quicker and rips the other guy from the top of his engine across the cockpit and back towards the tail, you'd consider that a HO?
I've been on the recieving end of those and hit a few myself, and I don't take the HO by choice but I will take the snap shot of the guy hasn't pulled in nose to nose with me. I've never seen that as a HO shot, just a good shot by a guy who got the jump on the other or turned it in tighter.
HO is still the guy that lines it up from a million miles away and comes in a blazing with his cannons. Most times you can duck, but sometimes, this big 38G target loses part of a wing or an engine not ducking quick enough :)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
So if a guy gets his nose in quicker and rips the other guy from the top of his engine across the cockpit and back towards the tail, you'd consider that a HO?
I've been on the recieving end of those and hit a few myself, and I don't take the HO by choice but I will take the snap shot of the guy hasn't pulled in nose to nose with me. I've never seen that as a HO shot, just a good shot by a guy who got the jump on the other or turned it in tighter.
HO is still the guy that lines it up from a million miles away and comes in a blazing with his cannons. Most times you can duck, but sometimes, this big 38G target loses part of a wing or an engine not ducking quick enough :)
Guppy read the post that I was mimicking. I was simply pointing out the gayness of the ho/not a ho whiners.
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Originally posted by Bronk
from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/head%20on
head-on /ˈhɛdˈɒn, -ˈɔn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hed-on, -awn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. (of two objects) meeting with the fronts or heads foremost: a head-on collision.
2. facing the direction of forward motion or alignment; frontal.
3. characterized by direct opposition: a head-on confrontation.
–adverb
4. with the front or head foremost, esp. in a collision: She stepped out of the front door and walked head-on into her husband.
Yea no angles mentioned here.
Whine on tard boi.
Bronk
I see you too have been reduced to smoldering ad hominem.
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Yea that dictionary definition of head on was sooo ad hominem.:rofl :rofl :rofl
Try some Gorgonzola .
Bronk
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Well you used multiple emoticons so that must prove that calling me "tard boi" was not a personal insult.
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Feew better now?
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
Tango, Shaw never called it a head on intercept did he.
Front 1/4 big difference.
Any one who calls a front 1/4 shot a HO is a whiner. They are trying to justify why the were shot down.
I have no idea why people make such a big deal about what the difference is between a HO or front quarter shot. Either way the guy that gets shot is in the fight path of the enemies bullets. If skill was involved, I'd say that they guy that recognizes this and is able to defeat a gun solution is the more skilled vs. the guy that gets hit and whines about it.
Shoot the other guy down however you can. If you maneuver your plane in a way that puts you across my guns whether nose-to-nose, forward-quarter, rear-quarter, I'm going to shoot. Simple as that.
Furthermore skill has nothing to do with taking a front-quarter or even a HO shot. You might have twisted and turned across the sky or you may have just flown straight into the other guy to end up in that position.
Lastly I can understand how HO's and FQ shots all look the same. Things are usually happening so fast and angles are changing so rapidly in maneuver anyway so it's hard to judge angles accurately.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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This is a HO
(http://www.mmegi.bw/images2/prostitute.jpg)
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Originally posted by dtango
Lastly I can understand how HO's and FQ shots all look the same. Things are usually happening so fast and angles are changing so rapidly in maneuver anyway so it's hard to judge angles accurately.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
Wait so now there is a difference ?!!????
Since there is a difference don't tell Suave, it would shatter him.
Bronk
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I don't care how other people think I fight, I can in RL how other people think of me. Why should I care, I don't think game, I think RL and if they get in my sites, I go for the kill. I don't think RL pilots that got HO didn't complain. It was a tactic. I don't HO unless I know I can take the plane infront of me. In your case Hornet it wasn't a HO. What you did was a quick think kill situation. I would have done the same thing, and I have. I have dive down on people as they climb up to me about to stall. (I don't know why they do this) and I shot the person and they said I HO'd them. What I had was an advantage to shoot this guy down, because he did a dumb move to put his plane in my sites.
Now Kong that is a HO :D
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Well let's see you were in a Zeke, and a Knight..... and you killed someone.... yup your a Ho'er now... lol J/K.
Sounds like he made a mistake and blamed you. Your description is not of a Ho at all. If he PM'ed you to say so... he did so because he did not want anyone else to know he got owned. Beside a HO takes 2 even if one doesn't fire.
My advice..... continue on your way and have fun.
You might see my 38 around and drop down and kill me.. or HO me.... no difference I am still dead... I might complain some.. but I will do it on 200 not PMING LOL, Then go get my brand new 38 and go off into the wild blue yonder.
:aok
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Originally posted by Hornet33
OK I have a question here. What do people consider a HO???
a lady that stands at a street corner that u pay to do crap im not allowed to mention here.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Hornet33
OK I have a question here. What do people consider a HO??? I got accused last night of HO'ing someone (no names) and I don't think it was a HO.
First off I want to define what I believe a HO is. 2 planes come into icon range and turn into each other. From 5k out a game of chicken starts where both planes are flying straight towards one anouther and both planes open fire at 1k and try to kill each other.
In that situation I normally do not open fire since it is an obvious HO and is just un cool in my opinion. I can normally avoid the shots from the other plane and then manuver to a gun solution.
Last night however, I was on the outer edge of a furball in an A6M5b. I had just arrived at the fight and was looking at the situation to see what I could do. I rolled up on my right wing, looked down and saw a fellow Knight with a spit on his tail geting ready to pass under me. I rolled inverted and pulled towards the deck and lined myself up for a crossing shot on the spit. He saw me setting him up and he pulled up into me, however I was able to tighten my turn to lead his plane and opened up at 200 as he crossed my nose. Landed several 20mm hits in his cockpit and he blew up. Next thing I know I'm getting pm'd and he's telling me I HO'd him.
Now to my way of thinking, if your already in a turn fight and your manuvering and you all of a sudden end up face to face with a plane and get shot in the face, that's NOT a HO, as neither pilot really had time to set it up that way. It's a quick reaction shot to a sudden target in your sights.
Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I shouldn't have taken that shot but my fellow Knight got away, I got a kill, and managed to get home with it.
Opinions????
One might ask was this your only shot? :aok
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
2 schools of thought on this.
Nose to nose, both have a shot= HO
or
Any shot that is not within 90 degrees of being directly behind the guy= HO
The second one I think is just BS, but, like the collision myths, it's gaining in popularity nevertheless.
Hey ya Hornet...
I have to agree with hubs statment mate... I think he hit it right on the head... I dont know how he did it, being a BK and all... but he is right... guess it must be a 1000 monkeys 1000 typewriters thing....
:p
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lol Who cares ....... Fly how you want and have fun......... so many get on 200 most know guy complaining about dying to ho , just lost his jousting match..
Quit running= I'm in a better turning plane turn fly to my advantage i'm not good enopugh to work for kill.
La7 is dweeb ride= but not when i fly it.
don't bomb Tank town= only ours guys should bomb it
Who cares were winning war u guys suck = We have numbers.
who is the 30k bombers= why don't you fly low so i can have a better chance
ETC list goes on 200 is childrens channel= once you prove them wrong the family insults start.
ITS A GAME fly your way have fun I'll fly my way. No matter how much your whine on 200 I'll still fly my way :)
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I dont shoot a head on shot in my first pass, with the exeption of this. If we re losing a base, and Im defending. I dont give a ratz arse what you think if I shoot you if your vulching. Second is a furball. Which is closely related to the first one.
Now, if you start to merge with me head on, I still wont shoot on first pass. Mostly cause Im stupid. I will have guns a blaze on second merge if we come out that again though.
Cheers
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Originally posted by KONG1
This is a HO
(http://www.mmegi.bw/images2/prostitute.jpg)
wouldn't this be her six? oh i get it :o
gusman44
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The "whiner dweeb" is the one who doesn't accept that in this game (or most anything else in life) if there ain't no formal and enforced rule about it, and if it can be done, it will be done.
Crying cause you died is just re-circulating air.
"Get Over It, Get Over It"
-The Eagles
Originally posted by Suave
Anyone who calls a Ho shot a 1/4 shot is a whiner. They are trying to justify why they used a 1/4 shot.
God that simple word HO really gets dweebs worked up.
Whiners
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If I shot you down I just made an incredible* deflection shot
If you shot me down you just made a head on !
Correct ?
*because of my L33T skills.
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Boy, this cheeses me to no end.
I have at least 10 films on my hard drive of hard-turning dogfights in my A6M5b, fighting everything from Spitfires, Typhoons, 190s, LA-7s, you name it...
...where I out turn the other person and wind up pointing straight at their cockpit from above or the forward quarter, and kill them with a shot to their pilot's face, and what happens?
I get accused on 200 of being a "cheap HObag". :rolleyes: Yeah. Really. I mean, I've just out turned them for the last 10 seconds, maneuvering to get a shot, blown their brains out their canopy and they accuse me of being "cheap"?
Since when did the employment of BFM to defeat your opponent become "cheap"? These lamers and whiners consider any shot that isn't dead off your 6-o-clock to be "cheap" or "cheating".
This is akin to whiners in Counter Strike complaining that some weapons are better than others, and that it's "cheap" to use a certain weapon.
Grow up. It's a GAME. If you don't like it, stop playing. It's that simple.
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An interesting aspect of the head on argument is that 99% of the merges that are 'complained' as being HO arent.
In a true head on situation both folks have a firing solution. Rarely does such a pass generate complaint.
The complaints always issue forth when someone executes a good front quarter shot while denying the bandit his shot opportunity. The dead guy was trying his best to turn this into a HO.
SO when folks complain about HO there are really saying "I'm angry because you denied me the opportunity to shoot you in the HO pass I was setting up"
Also, when you see a guy flying Kodak (point and shoot) you know you are facing a limited talent bandit and can lead turn with confidence.
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Originally posted by Gumbeau
An interesting aspect of the head on argument is that 99% of the merges that are 'complained' as being HO arent.
In a true head on situation both folks have a firing solution. Rarely does such a pass generate complaint.
The complaints always issue forth when someone executes a good front quarter shot while denying the bandit his shot opportunity. The dead guy was trying his best to turn this into a HO.
SO when folks complain about HO there are really saying "I'm angry because you denied me the opportunity to shoot you in the HO pass I was setting up"
Also, when you see a guy flying Kodak (point and shoot) you know you are facing a limited talent bandit and can lead turn with confidence.
lol oh yes they do complain trying to ho and losing joust match. have had many plane kills in my il2 60% are guys trying to ho rest forget how good il2 turns. and i mean true ho diveing losing alt to go st8 at me . i wait fire 600 and bingo kill and a whine after lol
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Originally posted by Gumbeau
An interesting aspect of the head on argument is that 99% of the merges that are 'complained' as being HO arent.
In a true head on situation both folks have a firing solution. Rarely does such a pass generate complaint.
The complaints always issue forth when someone executes a good front quarter shot while denying the bandit his shot opportunity. The dead guy was trying his best to turn this into a HO.
SO when folks complain about HO there are really saying "I'm angry because you denied me the opportunity to shoot you in the HO pass I was setting up"
Also, when you see a guy flying Kodak (point and shoot) you know you are facing a limited talent bandit and can lead turn with confidence.
lol oh yes they do complain trying to ho and losing joust match. have had many plane kills in my il2 60% are guys trying to ho rest forget how good il2 turns. and i mean true ho diveing losing alt to go st8 at me . i wait fire 600 and bingo kill and a whine after lol
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Originally posted by KONG1
This is a HO
(http://www.mmegi.bw/images2/prostitute.jpg)
I'd hit it :aok
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I have no problems with HO, as you have to assume that you can be killed in this little game!, saying that is unfair is out of subject!! HO is not only a lucky shot as you have many options of angles and the right timing to break!
If you don't try your chance while is coming in front attack, you might loose the fight for good in a "regular clean shot"
Those discussions about HO just incitate me to work more on frontal attack and make the best of it!!
Manurin
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Originally posted by Hornet33
OK I have a question here. What do people consider a HO???
Opinions????
How many more threads are needed on this topic? Let it go, if someone said that to you, great, fantastic. If someone DIDN'T say that to you, great, fantastic.
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5k out nose to nose playing chicken all the way, guns lighting up at 1 k that is a true HO.
Anything else is a forward quarter shot in the middle of a turn fight and is not possibly and never will be a HO.
Anyone who try's to say it is a HO is a loser, who just lost a fight and is looking for an excuse.
Once past that initial merge anything goes, even in 1 on 1 ladder rules. So if you got shot down you screwed up, you made a mistake, its YOUR fault, not the other guys. Quit moaning, jump in a plane and try again!
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Originally posted by gusman
wouldn't this be her six? oh i get it :o
gusman44
You thinking 2v1? :D
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(http://www.princeandpauper.com/horse.jpg)
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Here's what i found...if u kill them, they call it a HO....if they kill u, they call it a front quarter shot!!
I shoot whats in my crosshairs.....if ur facin me (since they tryin to kill me too) or if ur not, it don't matter....I'm here to shoot down planes, stay outta my crosshairs if u dont wanna get kilt...
If u dont like the HO..then turn away.....it's really that easy!
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Everybody is forgetting one thing. Unless both pilots participate it is really hard to get directly in front of someones nose head on. Both pilots have to have the same intent. To prove my point, try and intercept a bomber group directly head on. Its difficult because the bomber pilot is not participating in pursueing a HO.
Ive tried many times to take on bombers head on and almost always intercept at some kind of front quarter angle.
Conclusion, it takes two to HO and the loser has the nerve to chastise the other guy for being better at it.
Give me a break.
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
................i.e. both have a gun solution, then it is a HO.
This is my definition also............ the tactics of the foolish and/or the desparate......
I have been and almost certainly will be again , guilty of both....... but I will still need an equally foolish or desperate opponent to complete the HO.
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Man I don't get it. IF an enemy plane turns into me I have two choices. Challange the HO or divert for a dogfight. If I am in an La, 110, FW190, you can be guaranteed that I will accept. If flying something without cannons I will opt for the fight. This is given the classic HO situation. Matching alt's and 5K out.
If I am in a furball with a plane on my arss and a plane enters my sight out of pure luck head on, I will do my best to get the kill. If you try to have rules of engagement in this game only a few will follow and the rest will
take advantage of your good nature. For the most part an enemy plane will do whatever is needed to take you out of the air be it a game or real. So protect yourself at all times and may the best man win. I get HOed and vulched just like the rest of us. I would opt for a fight in the air and will
allow other pilots to up their aircraft before engaging if the situation allows it. If I am helping take out a base flying cover over an enemy airfield and the aircraft in the air have been eliminated I would vulch my own grandmother to save my C47. HA Ha just kidding about grandmaw but not
about vulching. Everyone in this game has done it or is lying about it. If I am challanged to a HO and I am in the right plane for me, it's on. If I loose then thats my fault. Its just a part of the game you either whine about all the time or accept that it is not going to change. Lower ability pilots will opt for the HO every chance they get. It may be one of the only ways they can
score a kill or some might be so good at it that it is just to irresitable to pass up. Either case I am up for the challange. The only rule of engagment is that their is no rule so govern yourself accordingly.
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Ghosth has it 100% correct....
Also Mustaine... I am pretty sure the correct term is "I'd Tap It...." :p
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S!
1 vs 1 headon merge and no firing. after that, its anything goes. extend, turnfight whatever. to me it's just more fun and the quality of the fight is better. however, being pm'd and called a ho or other things esp on 200 can really be annoying. it just something you gotta deal with at the time.
have i hoed? certainly. will i ho again? yes. it really depends on the situation thats going on around you. are you in a furball? up high 1 vs 1 at 25k? after 7 years here, it's just more fun for me trying different planes, learning how they handle and trying to shoot down the other person's airplane. just have fun and dont worry bout what others think about how you shot em down. my 2 cents.
S!
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ok...this is a touchy subject. a HO shot always seems to b the easy way to get a kill, but for me, the way i was taught to fly, i dont do it..UNLESS i am out numbered and there r no friendlies around. i was takin the high deflect shot but after a long talk with my mentor on here, its not a good shot to take either. i would rather earn the kill than to b a dweeb for an easy kill. if it means me gettin killed and hardly gettin any killz...so b it. i would rather earn that one very slight 6 shot that i put a few burst of 20 mils and u blow up. i like the idea that i can <
> someone and get a <> back and have a nice short convo bout a GOOD FIGHT . i might die alot to the cheap shots like a HO or a ram, but when i win a fight that was strickly nothin but pure ACM's, no running, no ho'n, no rammin...thats worth it to me every time.
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
If both planes have a 0 angular advantage, i.e. both have a gun solution, then it is a HO. You could probably put in a cushion of say 5 degrees to account for lag. Anything else is a good deflection shot.
What most people complain about is when an opponents only maneuver is to turn nose on to you and fire as you cross. I'm not saying that this isn't a valid tactic but if this is his only maneuver any half way decent pilot will eventually defeat him if he can avoid the face shot.
ever tried avoiding a face shot in a P38? or a ME 110? kinda hard....they feel like magnets when the HO guys do thier thing.........
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HOs only exist in duels where the two combatants make rules prior to flight about firing at the initial merge. In the arenas, there are no such rules. Always expect someone to shoot at you headon.
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Greetings fron Indy... Go Colts!
Frankly, I find it kind of funny anybody complains about getting shot down in the first place. Regardless of how it occurred. Also, ahead on pass is not uncommon.
The essential point is this is combat (albeit a video game) and the point is to shoot the enemy no matter what the circumstance. If you look at how we play this game with such a lack of tactical awareness, we set ourselves up for a HO situation every time we lift off. Almost everybody takes off from a field and file STRAIGHT to the enemy base. We're breeding HO scenarios under those conditions. Almost nobody makes a tactical approach to a base from a point other than head on straight from your base.
I tend to be a buff pilot so doing this tends to be lethal. So I always find an alternate route so I can come into the target area/base at an angle and perhaps get closer in before I have to defend myself.
It's the same with fighters. If you're trying to take a base, why always go for a "frontal" attack? You likely won't get there before meeting swarms of bandits sent up to block you. So go AROUND them! So you add 2-3 minutes of flying time to your sortie, bit deal, now you have an unabated shot at the base/target you're after.
There's no crying in aerial combat. The simple truth is if you got shot down, you either put yourself in a bad position at the start or your situational awareness wasn't what it should have been. Time to accept responsibility for your actions and pull the rip cord. Ha!
Disco
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a ho is a beautful thing with 20mm or better =p
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Originally posted by FiLtH
HOs only exist in duels where the two combatants make rules prior to flight about firing at the initial merge. In the arenas, there are no such rules. Always expect someone to shoot at you headon.
I always forget that!! :D
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It takes 2 to HO.
A Head on is when both pilots have a gun solution and NEITHER is trying to avoid the other.
ANYTHING else is not a head on.
Avoiding the HO is easy and a proper lead turn against a pilot trying a high AOT front quarter shot will result in gaining angles on a bandit.
The reason is quite simple. If you are maneuvering while the bandit is trying to shoot you are gaining angles because he has to fly essentially straight to shoot at you. Even a small reduction in G in an angles fight is enough to give away large angles in an all out angles fight.
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Originally posted by Gumbeau
It takes 2 to HO.
Avoiding the HO is easy and a proper lead turn against a pilot trying a high AOT front quarter shot will result in gaining angles on a bandit.
ok......PLEASE don't flame me for this........but this confuses me a bit...i know it sounds stupid, but i just don't get it.
the way a HO seems to mostly happen to/with me, is a bandit sees me, has more e than me and can run me down, if i turn away for more speed. if he's near my 3 or 9, he turns into me, same thing.......it feels like the only choice i have is to turn into the attack. i almost ALWAYS try to dive UNDER my attacker if i have to do this, as it gives me a bit of speed to use. problem is that as soon as the bandit sees my nose drop, he duplicates the maneuver.....so i pull up a bit to go over his head.......and he does the same thing as me again. you guys n gals have no clue how many times i've been collided with from bandits doing this....and if they don't collide with me, then like i said, the 38, and 110 act as magnets. if i try to turn away, i give him a perfect belly shot at me. if he misses the belly shot, then he's now got the advantage.(like he needs it with an unskilled pilot in a 38 lol) as he's now either at my 6 or he's pulled up to keep from overshooting me.
i do realize that the HO is a part of combat....and yes, i have used it in the past...more often than not when i find myself with no other choice(or so it seems), or on occasion when i just get downright impatient.
now here's the part where i bet you all flame me.......i KNOW that HTC can turn off the ability to do this. EA did it in AW2, and AW3..and those were nowhere near as advanced as this. that may be the solution to all of the HO's.........turn off hit scoring from head to head to about 5 degrees off center,(LT is ducking his head now) and yes, i too will probably complain when i try to face shoot someone, and no hits are scored......but i'd be willing to bet that it causes all of us, new and old to learn better tactics.
and finally....if ANYONE wants to offer any help to this 38 driver, i can make myself available almost any night from 9pm est onward......
please be gentle
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CAP1,
I can teach you how to properly avoid a HO attack in about 15 minutes but we need 3 people. We need 3 so you can watch the lead turn technique from my perspective.
Or I can try to make a film and send it to you.
Its all in the timing of your lead turn.
email me at gumbeau@houston.rr.com and maybe we can get together or I can send you a film.
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Originally posted by Gumbeau
CAP1,
I can teach you how to properly avoid a HO attack in about 15 minutes but we need 3 people. We need 3 so you can watch the lead turn technique from my perspective.
Or I can try to make a film and send it to you.
Its all in the timing of your lead turn.
email me at gumbeau@houston.rr.com and maybe we can get together or I can send you a film.
dude...you name a time, and if i can humanly possibly even remotly make it, i'll be there! also..i think in the training arena, i can join you and actually watch from your perspective as you do it.......ren had helped me like that a few months ago when i first started this dam.....i mean wonderfully addictive game:D
have to add a not here real quick.....i fly in early war a lot with my squad.........we were defending A4 from one of the other chess pieces.......there was a guy there.......wombat i think it was........pased up not 1 but 2 chances to HO me......but unfortunatly shot my tail off.....also noted that ubastard avoided it too.<<<<>>> to them!! real fighters:aok :D :D
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Originally posted by Mustaine
I'd hit it :aok
It's a guy.
-MI-
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:furious I'm so sick of this crap I'm not sure but I think it takes two HO. ( If it's red it's dead)
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:furious I'm so sick of this crap I'm not sure but I think it takes two HO. ( If it's red it's dead)
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Ho shot hmmmm.............
personally I feel their is no such thing.
If your merging head on, each participant should expect it yes?
Another question:
Is it a Ho shot when your engaging bombers head on going for a canopy shot?
Answer: NO!
In that scenario it is a high probability multiple kill!
1. It is a game
2. It is a sim
3. Did I say it is a game?
4. Do we stand at attention and salute our opponent as we bail out from our planes with our goggles up and our white crisp scarves flowing in the breeze.:huh
Survey says???
NO!:furious
Which brings me to the ever so popular 200 channel??
Whatever! We will play the game the way we want to play it thank you very much! Mr/Mrs 200 whinner person:mad: When you start paying my $14.95 then you can open your mouth and dictate the S.O.P's!
Well I think I managed to kick the ribs right out of that dead horse!:aok
Hornet 33!
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:aok
Hornet YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Another question:
Is it a Ho shot when your engaging bombers head on going for a canopy shot?
Answer: NO!
In that scenario it is a high probability multiple kill!
4. Do we stand at attention and salute our opponent as we bail out from our planes with our goggles up and our white crisp scarves flowing in the breeze.:huh
Survey says???
NO!:furious
Which brings me to the ever so popular 200 channel??
Whatever! We will play the game the way we want to play it thank you very much! Mr/Mrs 200 whinner person:mad: When you start paying my $14.95 then you can open your mouth and dictate the S.O.P's!
Well I think I managed to kick the ribs right out of that dead horse!:aok
well, i knew i'd get someone goin when i posted in here. RE shooting bombers head on......i don't....and i fly ju88's a lot in early war, and as of yet, not had a head on attack. when i'm attacking bombers, i either chop throttle, and dive straight down, attack from the side, or if its a liberator, i attack from its 2 or 10 and go for the wing root.:D
as for salutig someone who's kilt us........i have, i'm sure you have, and i'd think quite a few have......screw standing at attention though.:lol
unfortunatley, i've also whined on 200 too..........but o well......its fun....specially if it aggitates someone else playing for a different chess piece.:aok
anyway, if i offended anyone here........ YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SERIOUSLY.......HAVE FUN......SOONER OR later i'll learn to avoid that shot
Hornet 33! [/B][/QUOTE] :D :lol :aok
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Oh, puh-LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE!
(http://www.vtxpress.com/rv6/dead-horse.gif)
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A HO is one-half of one of these packages.
You're welcome.
(http://snacks.cyberpunks.org/hohos.gif)
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Originally posted by rv6
Oh, puh-LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE!
(http://www.vtxpress.com/rv6/dead-horse.gif)
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
now THAT'S funny!!!!
thanks dude!!!!!
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Chuck says
(http://spams-ukwildcatbasketball.com/lame.mbe.jpg)