Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: BlckMgk on January 18, 2007, 01:22:49 PM
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There had sparked a discussion in the USA vs Iran war that China was a bigger threat than most people give them. Underestimating them will be bad and this goes to show you they are working quickly to militiraize.
http://www.aviationweek.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/CHI01177.xml
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Chinese Test Anti-Satellite Weapon
By Craig Covault/Aviation Week & Space Technology
01/17/2007 07:45:59 PM
U. S. intelligence agencies believe China performed a successful anti-satellite (asat) weapons test at more than 500 mi. altitude Jan. 11 destroying an aging Chinese weather satellite target with a kinetic kill vehicle launched on board a ballistic missile.
The Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, the Defense Intelligence Agency, NASA and other government organizations have a full court press underway to obtain data on the alleged test, Aviation Week & Space Technology will report in its Jan. 22 issue.
If the test is verified it will signify a major new Chinese military capability.
Neither the Office of the U. S. Secretary of Defense nor Air Force Space Command would comment on the attack, which followed by several months the alleged illumination of a U. S. military spacecraft by a Chinese ground based laser.
China's growing military space capability is one major reason the Bush Administration last year formed the nation's first new National Space Policy in ten years, Aviation Week will report.
"The policy is designed to ensure that our space capabilities are protected in a time of increasing challenges and threats," says Robert G. Joseph, Under Secretary for Arms Control and International Security at the U. S. State Dept. " This is imperative because space capabilities are vital to our national security and to our economic well being," Joseph said in an address on the new space policy at the National Press Club in Washington D. C.
Details emerging from space sources indicate that the Chinese Feng Yun 1C (FY-1C) polar orbit weather satellite launched in 1999 was attacked by an asat system launched from or near the Xichang Space Center.
The attack is believe to have occurred as the weather satellite flew at 530 mi. altitude 4 deg. west of Xichang located in Sichuan province. Xichang is a major Chinese space launch center.
Although intelligence agencies must complete confirmation of the test, the attack is believed to have occurred at about 5:28 p.m. EST Jan. 11. U. S. intelligence agencies had been expecting some sort of test that day, sources said.
U. S. Air Force Defense Support Program missile warning satellites in geosynchronous orbit would have detected the Xichang launch of the asat kill vehicle and U. S. Air Force Space Command monitored the FY-1C orbit both before and after the exercise.
The test, if it occurred as envisioned by intelligence source, could also have left considerable space debris in an orbit used by many different satellites.
USAF radar reports on the Chinese FY-1C spacecraft have been posted once or twice daily for years, but those reports jumped to about 4 times per day just before the alleged test.
The USAF radar reports then ceased Jan. 11, but then appeared for a day showing "signs of orbital distress". The reports were then halted again. The Air Force radars may well be busy cataloging many pieces of debris, sources said.
Although more of a "policy weapon" at this time, the test shows that the Chinese military can threaten the imaging reconnaissance satellites operated by the U. S., Japan, Russia, Israel and Europe.
The Republic of China also operates a small imaging spacecraft that can photograph objects as small as about 10 ft. in size, a capability good enough to count cruise missiles pointed at Taiwan from the Chinese mainland. The Taiwanese in the past have also leased capability on an Israeli reconnaissance satellite.
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Crazy..
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Things like this are over looked often & have been for 20 years. The Chinese have been spending like mad these past two decades on modernization, granted they were so far behind that it's going to take some time going forward to complete but my god what's going to happen when they finish? :(
The muzzies are a bother & they are dangerous but it's those quiet, introverted Chinese that scare me. Will they "invade" the U.S., I doubt it, we are too strong for sea borne invasion to work. Will they push us around in their neighborhood & overtake us economically? Absolutely. And soon too.
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It wasn't a laser.
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And based on the fact of what Mini-D points out from the article, how hard would it to be place a explosive vehicle into orbit on a rocket, and detonate it near another orbiting object? Certainly not as hard as an airborne lazer that could do the same thing with nothing more than good old fashion American engineering and a 747 as a lazer launch platform. ;)
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We must not care too much, where as we fund it.
Shouldn't you alarmists be talking about global warming or something?
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With satellites, you don't need an explosion. You just need to throw a bunch of ballbearings in the way and let kinetic energy do the damage.
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It is well and good that we have enemies, lest we concentrate too much on each other. Unless of course your a liberal, then there are no number of enemies that can discourage the urge to eat ones self.
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Originally posted by Mini D
With satellites, you don't need an explosion. You just need to throw a bunch of ballbearings in the way and let kinetic energy do the damage.
Good point.
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Sounds just like the ASAT system the USAF developed in the 80s
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Shouldn't you alarmists be talking about global warming or something?
Naw, it's going to cause a mini-ice age & I love the snow....
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Originally posted by LePaul
Sounds just like the ASAT system the USAF developed in the 80s
I recall back when china launched their commie-nauts into space people laughed at how China caught up with 1960's space technology.
It looks like they made twenty year jump in space technology in three years.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
It looks like they made twenty year jump in space technology in three years.
So wait....They managed to land some guys on the moon, send multiple probes to the far reaches of the solar system, and build a re-usable shuttle fleet and here I am thinking that all they did was shoot down an old satellite, under conditions whose details were never confirmed...
I really need to read the papers more often.
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so should president pelosie surrender to the chinese now?
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Originally posted by Neubob
So wait....They managed to land some guys on the moon, send multiple probes to the far reaches of the solar system, and build a re-usable shuttle fleet and here I am thinking that all they did was shoot down an old satellite, under conditions whose details were never confirmed...
I really need to read the papers more often.
Yes...yes you do.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Yes...yes you do.
So wait, they really DID all that stuff?????
Or are you taking one very narrow example of their progress and concluding that they've:
'made a twenty year jump in space technology in three years'
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Originally posted by Mini D
It wasn't a laser.
Yeah, sounds like two different systems being discussed here.
For space intercept, a trash can full of bearings and explosives will work well. They have the launchers, can get the tech from western sources easily enough, and Red Flag Linux can handle the number crunching easily.
You can use KKV's (Kinetic Kill Vehicles) to kill a sat too, but not sure if Chinese will bother with this level of sophistication.... US and western powers have more to lose in Low Earth Orbit to random shotgun-like debris than they do.
IIRC, Chinese also working of a ground based laser that can knock out orbiting satellites..... anything from blinding them to damaging solar panels, communications systems.... whatever works to shut it down. This is something the Russians had in the late 70's or early 80's.... theirs looked similar to a space observatory. I seem to remember a story about our sats being lit up by their systems while they were being tested.
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Originally posted by Mini D
It wasn't a laser.
Was wondering what a kinetic kill laser would look like :)
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chinas dont need 2 go 2 teh mooon because there is no1 there to get takeout lololol usa did needed 2 go there bcauz there wasnt the flag there and now it is thar but cihna doesnt even hav a flag so why bothr?
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Originally posted by Rino
Was wondering what a kinetic kill laser would look like :)
it would be liek a lazr with a projectile, works like how solar sailing works.
slo r8 of fier, but very good muzzle velositys:O :O :O :O
nub
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china do have flag , i think it's red or something..
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NOE U R JUST THINKING OF THE MENUS AT THY'RE RESTRANTS OOOPppp sry all caps
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Originally posted by Mini D
It wasn't a laser.
I posted the China laser Vs US satellites story a while back:
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=188560
China Attempted To Blind U.S. Satellites With Laser
Hmmm, interesting...they are probing our capabilities and their own.
Regards
Sun
http://www.defensenews.com/story.ph...1&C=america
China has fired high-power lasers at U.S. spy satellites flying over its territory in what experts see as a test of Chinese ability to blind the spacecraft, according to sources.
It remains unclear how many times the ground-based laser was tested against U.S. spacecraft or whether it was successful.
But the combination of China’s efforts and advances in Russian satellite jamming capabilities illustrate vulnerabilities to the U.S. space network are at the core of U.S. Air Force plans to develop new space architectures and highly classified systems, according to sources............
In the same thread, Nilsen posted an update to the story that revealed a few more interesting details.
Regards,
Sun
==================================
Nilsen:
Here is an update:
"US claims that China has used lasers to attack satellites
China has used high-energy lasers to interfere with US satellites, according to a US Army space-warfare specialist. Tests have been reported previously but it is now confirmed that the laser attacks were at least partially effective.
Command Sergeant Major David Lady of the Joint Functional Combat Command for Integrated Missile Defense, said at the Strategic Space & Defense conference in Omaha on 12 October that the attacks were detected after US satellite operators - most likely users of the National Reconnaissance Office's secret imaging satellites - observed that the satellites occasionally failed to perform over China.
"There had been times when we wondered at the sudden decline in effectiveness as the satellites passed over China," CSM Lady said. Sensors at the Reagan Test Site on Kwajalein atoll in the South Pacific were tasked with tracking the satellites and observing any unusual phenomena. "We sensed the projection of beams against the spacecraft and could identify the streams of photons," CSM Lady said.
The Kwajalein data confirmed that the Chinese appeared to have "some level of confidence" in their laser countermeasures system, according to CSM Lady."
Source: http://www.janes.com/aerospace/mili...61016_1_n.shtml
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Originally posted by Thrawn
I recall back when china launched their commie-nauts into space people laughed at how China caught up with 1960's space technology.
It looks like they made twenty year jump in space technology in three years.
I guess those contributions they made to Clinton/Gore for classified missile technology is paying off big.
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Originally posted by Debonair
chinas dont need 2 go 2 teh mooon because there is no1 there to get takeout lololol usa did needed 2 go there bcauz there wasnt the flag there and now it is thar but cihna doesnt even hav a flag so why bothr?
Not that I'm trying to tell you what to do Debonair, but if some form of English is your first, or even second, language..... were I you, I'd hunt down and kill every teacher I ever had.....
.... but that's me.
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Do the Chinese have anythnig like this?
Hi-powered mobile laser (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3afd3def7a)
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Originally posted by Rino
Was wondering what a kinetic kill laser would look like :)
Well first it will have a shark immediately behind and under it.
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Originally posted by Neubob
So wait, they really DID all that stuff?????
Or are you taking one very narrow example of their progress and concluding that they've:
'made a twenty year jump in space technology in three years'
My statement was ambiguous in terms of whether or not "space technology" was a generality to include all space technology or some space technology. Let me clarify for you.
The Chines have made twenty year jump in a ****load of space technology.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
****load.
We all know how expert Thrawn is in **** tech.
:p
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Originally posted by Debonair
it would be liek a lazr with a projectile, works like how solar sailing works.
slo r8 of fier, but very good muzzle velositys:O :O :O :O
nub
Ahhh...I was thinking they launched the laser into space as a projectile
:D
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Originally posted by Maverick
Well first it will have a shark immediately behind and under it.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by tedrbr
Not that I'm trying to tell you what to do Debonair, but if some form of English is your first, or even second, language..... were I you, I'd hunt down and kill every teacher I ever had.....
.... but that's me.
teechrs r more ownd with a big clasroom full o n00bs that h8 them plus it si a lot les werks 4 me that way:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
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Originally posted by Debonair
teechrs r more ownd with a big clasroom full o n00bs that h8 them plus it si a lot les werks 4 me that way:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
What?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
The Chines have made twenty year jump in a ****load of space technology.
thanks to Russia's cooperation:aok
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may be chinas cant get a foto of Uranus, but they can get a reel gud look@ur things on this planit OMG what si teh name of this plnaet i furgot:O :O :cry :cry :cry o yeah cihna:noid :noid :noid
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Originally posted by Debonair
teechrs r more ownd with a big clasroom full o n00bs that h8 them plus it si a lot les werks 4 me that way:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
owie...owie...head hurts.... eyes bleeding.....feel....my.....I Q .....dropping............more r.......and...morer......
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Originally posted by Thrawn
The Chines have made twenty year jump in a ****load of space technology.
Over what period of time and in what specific areas of the technology did this 20 year jump take place? Probes? Routine space travel? Moon exploration? Optics? Propulsion?
Furthermore, the technological demonstration that led you to this conclusion--the kinetic kill vehicle specifically, was derived, in large part, from extensive help from the Russians, whose surface to air missile technology has never lagged far behind that of the US, and in some cases, arguably, has even surpassed it. That being said, once the Russian bring the Chinese up to a certain level of development, their progress can be expected to plateau, as this progress was never completely and truly theirs--as it was the Americans' and the Russians'.
So, I'll repeat the question:
In what areas have the Chinese made this 20 year leap, and over what period of time?
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over the last 30-40 years china has made a 20 year leap in technology.
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China has made a huge leap in technology in the last 20 years...HUGE! You need only look at how backward they were as late as the 70's to see it. I'm telling you folks, keep your eye on China. They're going to be THE world player in another twenty to twenty-five years, mark my words.:noid
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Originally posted by Neubob
In what areas have the Chinese made this 20 year leap, and over what period of time?
In whatever areas the US needed to develop in order to shot down a satellite, from the time that Glenn went into orbit.
Furthermore, the technological demonstration that led you to this conclusion--the kinetic kill vehicle specifically, was derived, in large part, from extensive help from the Russians,
I don't see the relevance. If Butt****landia demonstrated that they had nuclear weapons someone would it "not count" if they got them from North Korea instead of developing it themselves? What matters is the capability, not how they got it.
My concern is that people on this BBS are always underestimating China. In the original thread regarding China's first manned mission in to space someone intimated that they weren't impress because China had caught up to forty year old US technology.
People have been implying that "China doesn't count", as a super power because their military isn't on par with the US's. So what, they are catching up...and they have the economy to sustain it. My message for ages now has been that China is positioning itself to dominate the west, and they are doing a great job of it. And as I'm sure most people who have read my posts on this BBS know, I friggin' loathe commies.
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Shudup commie.
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China is a nuclear power. In other words, we can't do anything about it.
So we should definately let Iran, North Korea, and anyone else get nukes too :rolleyes:
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Thrawn: King of Shuttingup, Lord of ****tech.
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No reasonable person would underestimate China. That being said, you've still not shown any specific area of aeronautical engineering in which they've made significant strides. You've certainly not shown any examples of their advances above and beyond that which the west has generated, to date. A '****load' does not qualify as a technical term.
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Originally posted by Neubob
That being said, you've still not shown any specific area of aeronautical engineering in which they've made significant strides.
I can live with that. If you can't accept a premise that the US didn't have an anti-satellite weapon until 80s because it had a greater technological requirement than what was available in 1960s, than so be it.
You've certainly not shown any examples of their advances above and beyond that which the west has generated, to date.
And you haven't shown that I am not the most magnificent person ever. Which makes both of us not showing examples of things we haven't ever argued.
A '****load' does not qualify as a technical term.
Unfortunately there is no unit of measurement for the advance of technology. Let me rectify that by proposing the following, the "Thrawn" (Thr).
10 ****loads = 1 Thr
So, since 2003 China has advanced 0.1 Thr in some space technologies.
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I think you overestimate China. Someday they will have to build an infrastructure for their people(other than outdated factories), repair their environment(which is much more polluted than ours) and deal with the many health issues of their people(a population much greater than ours).
When that time comes, the Chinese politicians will have fled to Germany, France, America, England, etc., to live the good life, leaving behind another polluted wasteland like Russia.