Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: titanic3 on January 18, 2007, 02:59:53 PM
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what do u ugys think is the best bomber? B24 or Lancaster. i dunno which to decide. Lanc have awsome bombload but weak defensive armament, B24 have weaker(but still good) bombload and awsome defensive armament. i want to use those 1000lb bomb but B24 can only hold like 6x 1000lb. so which 1?:confused:
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Do you really have to decide? Like in fighters, there is no "best". Evaluate what the mission requires, then choose your bomber. Is survivabillity most important? Take B17. Need a bit more bomboad? Take B24s. Need massive payload and environment is not too dangerous (or you are willing to take some time to climb very high): Lancs. Quick porking runs? Maybe a Ki-67. Or take Bostons if you have a deathwish... ;)
And 1000lbs are not always the best choice, it depends on the job to do...
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I agree with Lusche, it depends on the mission.
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ok uhmmm thxi guess for the advice
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Lanc does carry the mostest, but like you said, poor defensive armament. Got to survive over target to do some good. All other bombers faster to altitude and target than the Lanc is. And I prefer to land kills in other bombers, than bomb and bail (or burn) in a Lanc.
Most Lancs I see dropping ord are using a shotgun method, sometimes level, sometimes diving.... which is a waste of ord considering how accurate bombing can be done in the war arenas.
Consider your target, the bomb load you will need for it, and select the plane.
I tend to run B-17's with 500 #'s these days to go after strats from altitude (10K up to 25K, single salvo), but still able to drop a hangar with salvo 2 or 3, or hit a town, if needed.
If I'm actually going after hangars, or HQ , as part of larger mission, then it's the B-24's with 1K's.
Killing a CV, I'll lift Ki-67's with 8-100kg eggs or a flight of Ar234's with 3-500kgs or even JU-88's just for fun. (and Ki-61 makes a good dive bomber with it's 2-250kg bombs for a small group, and can fight afterwards well enough.)
Going after GV's... B-26's with 500 #'s. Or JU-88's if we control the sky.
Knocking out radar towers or ord at many bases, Ki-67's with 8-100kg's again, or 15-50kgs with salvo 2. Nice penetration bomber.
Trying to level a strat factory with not too high chance of being intercepted, JU-88's with max bomb load.
There are more options than Lanc or B24.
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B-17F is the best bomber EVER. In the game, take the B-17G hands down. Shell take more punishment, and still get you home than the B-24 EVER will. In real life and in AH. (I know a pilot who flew both B-24s AND B-17s, and prefers the 17).
Boeing B-17G Flying Fortress :aok
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if u need to bomb and get the hell outta their then that Ar-234 might be the ticket:aok
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My favourite of the lot is the Boston; if all you want to do is knock out the radar, a single Boston with 4x250lb is plenty. I drop in salvos of two, one on the radar and a second on any other target that passes under the bombsight.
And then off and away. Most aircraft except the Hurricane will gain on you, if they choose; but they would gain on you in any other bomber, although at a slightly slower rate. You have a certain amount of forward firepower if you are bold enough to use it.
I think of the Ki-67 as a higher-altitude equivalent of the Boston, with a similar top speed but 7k higher. Against it, the Ki-67 has no pilot guns, and a smaller bombload than the Boston.
The Boston is basically defenceless except for its level speed, and its speed in a dive. The Mosquito is superior in this respect but it doesn't have a bombsight, so you have to dive or shallow-divebomb, in which case lots of other aircraft could do the same with less risk.
As for the heavies, I have an irrational soft spot for the Ju88. It is black. And I like the bomb load - the mixture of 2x2x500kg plus 60x50kg is handy, although it's useless if you can't get it to the target. Against any opposition you are dead meat unless you are an exceptional pilot, in which case you would do even better in any other bomber.
If it's just Lancaster vs B24, take the B24. The Lancaster's bomb load is unnecessarily large and it cannot play guitar.
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Many Pilots perfered the B-24 for its bomb load, speed, and range. But when it came to flying over Germany, they perfered the B-17 as it would bring you home, in any condition.
I take up a bomber depending on its mission. Most of the time I take up the 17 just cuz I know I'll make it home.
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yea but i think 17's have a weakspot to 163's chewing on their 6
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Originally posted by Apeking
I think of the Ki-67 as a higher-altitude equivalent of the Boston, with a similar top speed but 7k higher. Against it, the Ki-67 has no pilot guns, and a smaller bombload than the Boston.
Do not forget that nasty 20mm top gun the Ki-67 has :D
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ok thx for tips guys. hope to meet u in 8 player. XD:cool:
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Originally posted by Lusche
Do not forget that nasty 20mm top gun the Ki-67 has :D
Oh... I *like* it when they forget about that gun up there. Nothing better than sniping some noob at your high 5 to 7 position whose lining up to attack your Ki-67 formation.
Although one of the best "dogfights" I ever had was when my flight of JU-88's was attacked by a flight of Ki-67's. Both of us returning from runs. A few wide turns (JU-88's maneuverability helped a lot here), a few passes, a couple dives for speed....... Eventually he broke off with 1 remaining damaged Ki-67 to my 2 shot-up JU-88's. It was classic.
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Originally posted by Wes14
yea but i think 17's have a weakspot to 163's chewing on their 6
But a B-24 can activate its hyperdrive and go to ludicrus speed to outrun them right? B-17G will take hits that would set a '24 afire and not even flinch.
Go Boeing! Go FORTRESS!!! (not the player, the plane)
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B-24's have hyperdrive?:O :rolleyes:
nah thats called warping,and its annoying:furious :furious
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LANCASTER!!!!! ;)
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In this game, a B-24 would never have survived THIS:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1166552045_b17_1.jpg)
But I landed safely (after gliding a full sector with no fuel left, but that's my fault I didn't bring enough to start with).
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I personally feel the B-24 is almost as vulnerable as the Lancaster. The Lanc takes more damage, but is slower and less well armed, so I say its a wash. One burst in the wing root and the Liberator is en fuego. I've shot down a lot of bombers, and the B-17 is the most survivable/toughest. Make up for its smaller bomb load by always hitting what you drop on. With the laser beam accuracy of bombing in this game, there's no need to drop more ord than necessary. And, 14 X 1000lb bombs are useless if you don't live long enough to get 'em out of the bomb bay.
Oh yeah, if you actually fly the heavy bombers where they should be (above 20K), the B-17 is also faster than the B-24. Take 'em up to 28K, and the B-17 shines. Watch the fighters wheeze as they climb up to try and intercept you.
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Originally posted by Stoney74
I personally feel the B-24 is almost as vulnerable as the Lancaster. The Lanc takes more damage, but is slower and less well armed, so I say its a wash. One burst in the wing root and the Liberator is en fuego. I've shot down a lot of bombers, and the B-17 is the most survivable/toughest. Make up for its smaller bomb load by always hitting what you drop on. With the laser beam accuracy of bombing in this game, there's no need to drop more ord than necessary. And, 14 X 1000lb bombs are useless if you don't live long enough to get 'em out of the bomb bay.
Oh yeah, if you actually fly the heavy bombers where they should be (above 20K), the B-17 is also faster than the B-24. Take 'em up to 28K, and the B-17 shines. Watch the fighters wheeze as they climb up to try and intercept you.
I go for 18k, because from the reading I have been doing, thats where the low squadron was normally. 26k is the highest I have conducted opporations. Is it REALLY worth the climb to take it to 28? (By that I mean were most opporations conducted around 18k or 28?)
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Originally posted by Serenity
I go for 18k, because from the reading I have been doing, thats where the low squadron was normally. 26k is the highest I have conducted opporations. Is it REALLY worth the climb to take it to 28? (By that I mean were most opporations conducted around 18k or 28?)
Can't say exactly, but... I do know that when the B-24 showed up, 8th AF tried doing integrated missions with both B-24's and B-17's. The B-24 pilots said they couldn't keep up with the B-17's because as soon as they got above 20K, they were wheezing. Same interview said that the B-17's were normally flying 28K (at least at the time). Don't know where that would put the low, low squadron, but 18K sounds low to me.
I do know that some of the early raids along the French coast were at lower altitudes. Just got done reading Robert Johnson's book, and he was describing their escort altitude as 32K, and only being a couple thousand feet above the bombers.
28K is a historical altitude for B-17's. About the only thing that can hang with you up at that altitude is a P-47, TA-152. Some other fighters can get that high, but perform like pigs. You won't have to worry about them doing anything but climbing up from underneath you--in full view of the belly and rear turrets.
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Originally posted by Stoney74
I personally feel the B-24 is almost as vulnerable as the Lancaster. The Lanc takes more damage, but is slower and less well armed, so I say its a wash. One burst in the wing root and the Liberator is en fuego. I've shot down a lot of bombers, and the B-17 is the most survivable/toughest. Make up for its smaller bomb load by always hitting what you drop on. With the laser beam accuracy of bombing in this game, there's no need to drop more ord than necessary. And, 14 X 1000lb bombs are useless if you don't live long enough to get 'em out of the bomb bay.
Oh yeah, if you actually fly the heavy bombers where they should be (above 20K), the B-17 is also faster than the B-24. Take 'em up to 28K, and the B-17 shines. Watch the fighters wheeze as they climb up to try and intercept you.
Just subjective, but I feel that the B-26 is the toughest...fast, lots of
50 cal ammo for the tail. The 17 is physically tough but has an anemic
tailgun ammo load IMHO.
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B-26 is fine, if you only need a medium bomb load and plan to stay low, under 5K AGL really. Lower even to help prevent enemy fighters coming at you from directly below you where you've no turret coverage. The ammo load of the rear gun is nice to have. I don't take B-26's very high, ever.
B-17's at 20 to 25K is where I generally operate if using buffs to pork strats. Bombers can be very accurate at those heights... I've been loading 500 lb bombs, and taking out strats with salvo 1.... but I do it by adjusting my throttle to where the B-17 stays at constant altitude. Tried using trim to level it out, but at full throttle, the B-17 still wants to climb.... which throws off a long 15 to 30 second calibration. So, I give up some speed for high accuracy at those altitudes.
I think in-game, we are missing a dorsal gun for the B-17's Radio Operator, aren't we?
Used to run B-17 at 25 to 30K to pork troops.... but with so many barracks per field now, I don't run those missions any more. Resup happens too fast, and fewer planes come clawing up to those altitudes to attack me..... which was part of the fun.... especially when it was an La7 or Niki trying to climb up after me.
I'll attack CV's with Ar-234's and Ki-67's at between 5 and 7K altitudes. I take hits, but the speed on the way in, and shorter drop time, helps against maneuvering CV's.
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Originally posted by Stoney74
28K is a historical altitude for B-17's. About the only thing that can hang with you up at that altitude is a P-47, TA-152. Some other fighters can get that high, but perform like pigs. You won't have to worry about them doing anything but climbing up from underneath you--in full view of the belly and rear turrets.
b17s never bombed at that height..... remember they didn't have laser guided bombs. Bombing alt was between 16-24k i think.... you also have to remember that they don't have warm computer rooms, but have unpressurised, freezing cold compartments to work in.
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Originally posted by tedrbr
but I do it by adjusting my throttle to where the B-17 stays at constant altitude. Tried using trim to level it out, but at full throttle, the B-17 still wants to climb.... which throws off a long 15 to 30 second calibration. So, I give up some speed for high accuracy at those altitudes.
hmm.... your auto level not work? i seen you say this before but you are the only person to say your b17 still climbs when in the bombsite/autolevel.
press X and it will level. any turns with the "rudder in gunsite" method will throw it out, but that isnt to do with throttle or anything, its just the turn.
Originally posted by Stoney74
And, 14 X 1000lb bombs are useless if you don't live long enough to get 'em out of the bomb bay.
hmm i dropped rooks city down to 10% with just 1 set of planes (2 main passes, 1 to clean up)..... then on 2nd mission dropped rooks AAA down to 16% (2 passes).
keeping there AAA down for well over 1hour gave us a chance to take back bases.... or rather vulch newbies.... hmm what a waste of effort that was lol.
1000lbs are great for blast damage, if its a tightly packed target, a 1000lb bomb can take out close to 10buildings on a city. A 500lb'er will only take out 2 or 3.
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Originally posted by 0verlag
b17s never bombed at that height..... remember they didn't have laser guided bombs. Bombing alt was between 16-24k i think.... you also have to remember that they don't have warm computer rooms, but have unpressurised, freezing cold compartments to work in.
Quote taken from a mission diary posted here HERE (http://www.398th.org/Missions/Diaries/Woods/Woods_440621.html)
Date: June 21, 1944 Mission #18
Location of target: Berlin, Germany
Load: 2700 gals of gas, 10-500 lb. general purpose & 2-500 lb. cluster incendiaries.
Altitude: 27,000 feet.
Flight Time: 9:10 hours
Escort: P-47s, P-38s, P-51s all the way.
Position: No. 2 of second element of low squadron of lead group of combat wing.
Opposition: Intense flack and fighters, ME-109s, 410s, 210s, 110s, Ju-88s & FW-190s. .
Battle damage: Flack hole through the bomb-bay door and into the front glass of ball turret, but fell into turret. Glass dust in his eyes. There was a hole through the left waist window. Our brakes were shot out.
Results: Bombed as briefed.
Day's losses: 8th AF 43 bombers, 15 fighters and 12 bombers landed in Sweden..
Remarks: We assembled at briefing at 2:15 AM after breakfast. They raised the curtain, and there was the route straight to Berlin.
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i would like to see a photo of Ju88 loaded with WGr. 21s
never have & i dont know how many they carried, but i fantasize about six:aokor maybe even eight:O:O
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Originally posted by 0verlag
hmm.... your auto level not work? i seen you say this before but you are the only person to say your b17 still climbs when in the bombsite/autolevel.
press X and it will level. any turns with the "rudder in gunsite" method will throw it out, but that isnt to do with throttle or anything, its just the turn.
I guess not, at full speed with autolevel on (pressed X, yellow light on), I've noticed most heavy bombers still have a tendency to gain altitude. Not a good thing when dropping a single salvo of 500's from 20K+ on a radar tower, ord, or similar strat target at a field. Use J and L for fine corrections, as I'm lined up on my target 20 miles out and settling down for an accurate run.
I've played with trim tabs, but just does not want to fly dead level at full speed even at altitude. Less an issue with Ki-67's which will almost stay level for me at full throttle.
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Originally posted by 0verlag
keeping there AAA down for well over 1hour gave us a chance to take back bases.... or rather vulch newbies.... hmm what a waste of effort that was lol.
1000lbs are great for blast damage, if its a tightly packed target, a 1000lb bomb can take out close to 10buildings on a city. A 500lb'er will only take out 2 or 3.
Hey, I'm not saying a 1000lb bomb is ineffective, quite the contrary. What I was saying was that the Lanc is not as survivable as a B-17. If you're flying the thing high enough, and have some escorts, a Lanc can be quite effective. What I see are guys flying them unescorted at 8K hoping someone doesn't pick 'em up before they get at least one pass in.
I'd be curious to know whether or not you were intercepted on your mission, and what altitude you were flying? I'm gonna guess no on the first question, and high on the second.
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Originally posted by Stoney74
Hey, I'm not saying a 1000lb bomb is ineffective, quite the contrary. What I was saying was that the Lanc is not as survivable as a B-17. If you're flying the thing high enough, and have some escorts, a Lanc can be quite effective. What I see are guys flying them unescorted at 8K hoping someone doesn't pick 'em up before they get at least one pass in.
I'd be curious to know whether or not you were intercepted on your mission, and what altitude you were flying? I'm gonna guess no on the first question, and high on the second.
saying "never" to the bomb alt question was a bit daft by me.... but it was rare i think.... lol
back to the lancs:
19k in lancs.
19k is the best alt before the engine starts loosing boost, so this is the fastest alt.
Route planning.
I also plan my route so not to encounter enemy BEFORE I'm at cruise alt/speed. This generally means going around radar circles, and avoiding mass front-line engagements. Basically means 75miles climb within my country.
interception.
Generally all my interceptors are running out of breath, only low 6 climbing up to me. Most the time, its too late once they see me to stop the first batch of bombs going out (between 6-9 on first pass depending on target). I generally have La7s and Nikis trying to chase me down. Only thing that really worries me is 110s already at alt in front of me, P47s, and Ta152's/163/262....
those two missions i mentioned i was engaged by the same guy. First time he was flying something not made for the job.... cant remember what, but he filled my lancs with lead but didn't really do damage, and soon died. 2nd time he got wise and chased me down with a Ta152.. he killed 2 of my planes, before turning back and landing (assuming pilot wound).
However i do love flying B17s, and sometimes B24s. Only really use lancs when i bombing Cities (a big target that i want under 50% before bombing other targets), and once i turned to other strat targets i turn to the stronger buffs.
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Still say B-17G. In a recent snapshot, I lead a flight of 5 B-17Gs at 26,000 feet against Bf-109G-14s, Fw-190 D-9s, and Me-163s. Against all of that opposition, we reached the target, bombed, and were finally killed only after releasing our ordenance, and only by the overwhelming Me-163s. (I was finally brought down by a collision from a 163 which set my number 2 engine ablaze.).