Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Schatzi on January 18, 2007, 05:31:01 PM
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Originally posted by Condor in another thread
What is the value of the "optimum over the nose view" in close combat?
Take a look at this screenshot:
(http://slowcat.de/slowcats1/AHTC/overthenose.jpg)
It shows the default center view in my SMk8 and the "over the nose" view i set up on my hatswitch forward view. To achieve it, i move the head all the way to the left, up and back. This allows for maximum visibility forward. Note that the T34 drone is not visible in the default view.
Why not to the right you ask? That would work as well, as it is just the mirror image of the left position. And actually, in some situations, like when landing on a CV (with the tower on the right hand side) it might even be better. But I also use this view in combat a lot - and due to the fact that most planes in the AH set have a clockwise rotating prop and thus turn better (and more often!) to the left i have it set to that side. More on that later.
This is the answer I gave to Condor initially:
Imagine youre tracking someone in a left hand turn... start pulling lead and hell quickly dissappear under your nose. Now use your "over the nose" view (set all the way up and to the left) and hold your nose a little above your opponent in the turn. You can now easily track him under your cowling (and having the nose a little high also gains you some E) untill you have the correct amount of lead. Then you just need to lower the nose a bit and boom.
Lets start with taking a look at a very common situation:
(http://slowcat.de/slowcats1/AHTC/default.jpg)
What am I supposed to see in this shot you say? Well, thats the reason why I have a forward view set. Under my nose in that screenshot is a Spit that im trying to shoot while we are both in a left hand turn. To be able to get my bullets on target, i needed to pull lead on him and that caused him to dissappear under my cowling.
(http://slowcat.de/slowcats1/AHTC/overnose.jpg)
This is the very same screenshot but with the over the nose view in place. I took both shots off the film viewer, at the exact same moment.
The advantages: I have a tally on my opponent and can judge the neccessary lead easier, since I do not have to guess where he is. I know it. Also, the Spit cannot surprise me with a roll and break to the right while im setting up my shot as I would see that immediatly.
Now you can also see why the view to the left is more advantageous in this situation. I actually still have to keep my nose a little above his turn (to the right!) to be able to see him. If I was looking out the right side of my plane, i would have to keep my nose *below* his turn to still keep him visible - I would gain speed and eventually overshoot.
For the actual pulling of the trigger, ill go back to the default view direction and let my nose just "drop" the slight bit untill it is in the correct shooting position in front of the bandit.
The view has a few other advantages, for example when landing on a carrier (or even a base) as it is easier to keep a bearing on the runway. Also note that some planes have a better visibility over the cowling then others.
Thanks to AKRaven for flying circle after circle in his Spitfire for me.
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That's sweet and all, but how do you set it up to go to that view?
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also if u place the mouse pointer on the center dot of your gunsite u can use that as an aiming reference when using an "other than default" view ;) works with osti's and gunner positions aswell.
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Originally posted by Bubbajj
That's sweet and all, but how do you set it up to go to that view?
Its the look forward position of the hatswitch. Or if youre using keypad for views, its the 8 key. Adjust the head position on the forward view with arrow left (left) arrow down (back) and page up (up) - when youre done F10 to save the head position.
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As the default forward view needs no input from you, that's one view sorted. On most view switches in addition to having the side and rear views you have one forward. What you do is hold the forward view on the hat switch while you move the head into the right position using the arrow keys and pg up and pg down keys. Once you have that special forward view just press F10 to save it.
When you release the forward hat switch you return to the default view, and now, when you press the hat switch forward again you instantly get the saved special view.
Just be carefull you don't save the view without the forward hat switch on (or the num pad 8 key held down), as that would change the default forward view.
To recap you now have two forward views,
1 normal (no input on the hat switch) and 1 special with the hat switch forward
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You can also raise the seat of your plane to get the "over the nose" view. I raised the seat so the bore sight is at eye level and lets me look over the nose of the P-38.
ack-ack
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My problem is, how do you get TrackIR to work with these views? If I set the forward view as you've shown, my virtual head is in the proper position only when I am looking forward. Once I rotate past a certain degree, my head moves back the the center. It's possible, I suppose, to program every view to the same place, but getting them all to be in the same spot is just about impossible.
Moreover, how do you toggle between saved views and the default? The only way I know of requires that you hold the button; as soon as you let go, it goes back to the saved view.
To make matters worse, when TrackIR is on, the move head keys do not work. Rather, you must hold the view key for that direction, and then move your real head. This moves the virtual head, but disables rotation.
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Schatzi,
Thanks for educating me. A great example of how a picture is worth a thousand words.
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Schatzi
You are the Goddess of AH.
Now I see how my "over-the-nose" view was set wrong in my Spit.
Thank you soooo much for posting those pics.
<>
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ahhhh thats how i get shot down in a scissors fight!
wow you are the best :)
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You can also use the same forward view while in the bombsight (F6). Use arrows and Page Up/Page Down keys to move the forward guns out of view, then save it. The effect is that you can look up and forward from the bombsight through the front plexiglass to fine tune your path to the target, then release the view and be looking back down into the bombsight.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
My problem is, how do you get TrackIR to work with these views? If I set the forward view as you've shown, my virtual head is in the proper position only when I am looking forward. Once I rotate past a certain degree, my head moves back the the center. It's possible, I suppose, to program every view to the same place, but getting them all to be in the same spot is just about impossible.
Moreover, how do you toggle between saved views and the default? The only way I know of requires that you hold the button; as soon as you let go, it goes back to the saved view.
To make matters worse, when TrackIR is on, the move head keys do not work. Rather, you must hold the view key for that direction, and then move your real head. This moves the virtual head, but disables rotation.
Benny,
Im not 100% sure what you are talking about. When you are using TrackIR, you cannot use the hatswitch with adjustment of the head positions at the same time. You do not need it, since the TrackIR will control your head moving as well as the view direction.
You can always "override" the TIR view with hatswitch, but then youll only get the default head position... unadjustable. But you can still use the TIR to move your head, even in the view direction "fixed" by the hatswitch.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
My problem is, how do you get TrackIR to work with these views? If I set the forward view as you've shown, my virtual head is in the proper position only when I am looking forward. Once I rotate past a certain degree, my head moves back the the center. It's possible, I suppose, to program every view to the same place, but getting them all to be in the same spot is just about impossible.
check this thread : http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196483
Try some of the posted configuration.
Moreover, how do you toggle between saved views and the default? The only way I know of requires that you hold the button; as soon as you let go, it goes back to the saved view.
To make matters worse, when TrackIR is on, the move head keys do not work. Rather, you must hold the view key for that direction, and then move your real head. This moves the virtual head, but disables rotation. [/B]
If I'm not mistaken you cannot mix static view and track IR.
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Originally posted by Condor
Schatzi,
Thanks for educating me. A great example of how a picture is worth a thousand words.
Schatzi, let me add my thanks and gratitude to you for this excellent post. Even though I have flown in AceHigh for a number of years, I was not aware of this view setting. I am sure that there are a number of "vets" out there who are also unaware of it. As a suggestion, I think that your post should be included on your Trainer's web site. Thanks and keep up the excellent work. I salute you, wizer!!!
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To summarize how TrackIR works in Aces High (been experimenting a lot with it lately):
1. When TIR is enabled, the static view keys when held down exhibit two important characteristics -
a. Any customized setting you've done to that view is lost and you just get a default view.
b. TIR Pitch, Roll, Z and Yaw are disabled but X and Y are enabled allowing you to move your head around in those axes while the key is held.
2. If you disable TIR (pause) then use the static views, it behaves as if you don't have TIR at all. All your customized views are present. One negative side effect is it takes about 1.2 seconds from the time you pause TIR until you can succesfully change views. If you are too quick, you'll get the "TIR static" view.
I did some experimenting with building a CM script (CH programming language) that would temporarily turn off TIR when I used my POV. It seemed like a good idea at the time but the biggest problem is the delay associated with pausing TIR. 1.2 seconds is a real show stopper. I'm actually glad now that I didn't go that route as holding a POV key while TIR is turned on is way better than a saved view anyway. Because all TIR movement is disabled except X (side-to-side head movement) and Y (up-and-down), you can move your head and easily duplicate any saved head position. For example, the example Schatzi posted, with TIR, I could hit the POV-up hat and then move my head left and up and see exactly what she posted. BUT, if the guy were to quickly break right, I could very easily track that view too by simply moving my head right and up. The same is true when looking six. If you relied only on the static saved view, my six view would be over my left shoulder or right depending on what I saved. With TIR, if I hit POV-back, I can very easily move my head left or right and look over either shoulder. The most important factor here is setting up your TIR profile to effectively exploit this behavior. Because I didn't have my profile set up right, I began to explore mixing static views with TIR views. If you have your profile set up correctly, you don't need to do that. Thanks to Mace, I now have a good profile.
Of course, you don't need to use POV at all with TIR but there is an advantage to doing so. Using POV stabilizes the view a good bit as Pitch, Yaw and Roll are disabled plus you can check your six much quicker by yanking POV-back rather than whipping your head around to the six.
There is still one instance where I want to turn off TIR while in flight. When JABO bombing, I use the Forward-Left (or right) static view to determine the proper angle to begin the bomb run. I want that view to remain stable so I turn off TIR when I start my bomb run because I need the stability. As soon as I release my ordinance however, I swith TIR back on. I set up a button to do that so it's quite easy.
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Originally posted by Wizer
Schatzi, let me add my thanks and gratitude to you for this excellent post. Even though I have flown in AceHigh for a number of years, I was not aware of this view setting. I am sure that there are a number of "vets" out there who are also unaware of it. As a suggestion, I think that your post should be included on your Trainer's web site. Thanks and keep up the excellent work. I salute you, wizer!!!
Thank you for the kind words wizer and everyone. Im glad if i can help :).
As for this being included on the Trainers Website.... already in the works.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
When you are using TrackIR, you cannot use the hatswitch with adjustment of the head positions at the same time. You do not need it, since the TrackIR will control your head moving as well as the view direction.
You can always "override" the TIR view with hatswitch, but then youll only get the default head position... unadjustable. But you can still use the TIR to move your head, even in the view direction "fixed" by the hatswitch.
Right. My problem is that I don't have Vector Expansion, so I can only rotate my virtual head with TrackIR, not move it. In order to move my virtual head while using TrackIR, I have to hold down the hatswitch (or, in my case, because my hand problem prevents me from using the hat, a number pad key). As you mentioned, this locks the rotation of my head, so I can't move and rotate my head at the same time.
The biggest problem is that the move head keys don't work when TrackIR is on. There's no reason that they should not work for TrackIR users without Vector Expansion. As it is, if an enemy ship is above me but hidden by my canopy support, the only way I have of looking at it is pressing keypad 5 and moving my real head. By the time I've located keypad five (since my hand is usually on the flaps lever), he's usually no longer there. It would be nice to simply be able to move my head back a tad without disabling my TrackIR's head rotation. All that would need fixing would be allowing the head movement keys (move head back, et cetera) to work when TrackIR is on.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
The biggest problem is that the move head keys don't work when TrackIR is on. There's no reason that they should not work for TrackIR users without Vector Expansion.
All that would need fixing would be allowing the head movement keys (move head back, et cetera) to work when TrackIR is on.
Im no programmer, but Im pretty sure HT has a reason for it being the way it is Benny. Beyond trying to annoy you or just being too lazy.
In this case id actually suggest you think about ditching the TIR alltogether and rely on hatswitch views (with properly set head positions) completely. It sounds to me that your using TIR is actually more a hassle and time consuming then it really helps you in battle.
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Well, I'm not making accusations of lazyness. I suspect, however, that very few players use TrackIR without Vector Expansion, so this issue is unknown. Certainly I've never heard anyone complain about it before.
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Ah my favorite trick in an FM-2 and F6F.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
I'd like to add my thanks too, Schatzi, a truly worthy tip...
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Originally posted by TW9
also if u place the mouse pointer on the center dot of your gunsite u can use that as an aiming reference when using an "other than default" view ;) works with osti's and gunner positions aswell.
The mouse or... zoom in on the center of sight all the way, then put a very small sharpie dot on your screen in the middle, it washes off easily, then you can use the over nose position without worrying about the mouse. Works great for n1ks, others, not so much.
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Schatzi,
Thanks for the great tip!
Gunner
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
Right. My problem is that I don't have Vector Expansion, so I can only rotate my virtual head with TrackIR, not move it. In order to move my virtual head while using TrackIR, I have to hold down the hatswitch (or, in my case, because my hand problem prevents me from using the hat, a number pad key). As you mentioned, this locks the rotation of my head, so I can't move and rotate my head at the same time.
The biggest problem is that the move head keys don't work when TrackIR is on. There's no reason that they should not work for TrackIR users without Vector Expansion. As it is, if an enemy ship is above me but hidden by my canopy support, the only way I have of looking at it is pressing keypad 5 and moving my real head. By the time I've located keypad five (since my hand is usually on the flaps lever), he's usually no longer there. It would be nice to simply be able to move my head back a tad without disabling my TrackIR's head rotation. All that would need fixing would be allowing the head movement keys (move head back, et cetera) to work when TrackIR is on.
Benny, sounds like you're working hard on developing a workaround so why not just get the Vector Expansion? I think it's only about $30. You haven't mentioned what TIR model you have but you'll have to have TIR 3 to do this. If you've got an earlier model I'd bet there seem to be a number of people playing AH that couldn't adjust to TIR so you'd probably be able to get a TIR 3 or 4 via these boards. Since you mentioned you have a hand problem I'd think that updating to VE would give you a bit more flexibility in assigning functions to buttons that are convienient to you.
Mace
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On the CH Pro Throttle, you can set up the thumb microstick to gain essentially the same view by assigning it to move your head position.
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umm Murdr... how?
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X Rotation > Analog Inputs View Move Left/Right
Y Rotation > Analog Inputs View Move Up/Down
At least thats the tumbsticks axis assignment on my system.
Edit: I did have to turn on scaling, and add some deadband to those two axis to get them to work properly.
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I use the micro stick for head movement but use the CH CM and made it mouse . Works fine for me once you get the settings right. If you need to know the seeting in CM PM me and Ill try to help you out. If not Murdr will work also,but he's mapping in game.
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X Rotation > Analog Inputs View Move Left/Right
I tried that out , works :) like trackir somewhat . I did find that with it you don't have your saved views working . Undid it and those views work again .
Hmmm wonder if you could say set up a special stick for just that . Gonna have to try that out I guess .
Thanks for the tip .
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If the micro stick is calibrated, and you have the deadband and scaleing set, when ya let go of the microstick, other view functions should function as normal.
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excelent post schatzi!
here is something i found awhile back that helps alot and enables you to check both sides without having to remap the forward view which i use as fw/up
if you combine 'look back' and either side of 'fowrd/left' or 'fwrd/right' it gives you a default 'look forward' view for each side that you can 'arrow key and F10'.
now comes the tricky part, switch the 'look back' view to a thumb button just below the hat.
you can now look back and still move the hat to either fwrd/left or fwrd/right.
sounds complicated but it means you can check over the nose on either side at anytime.
you can also now re-asign the disused down hat for elevator tirm.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
if you combine 'look back' and either side of 'fowrd/left' or 'fwrd/right' it gives you a default 'look forward' view for each side that you can 'arrow key and F10'.
Interesting that, so I tried it and yes it works, but it feels so unnatural I went back to the way I originally mapped with the back view on the hat switch.
But your method does then give 4 different forward views you can save including the default.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
Its the look forward position of the hatswitch. Or if youre using keypad for views, its the 8 key. Adjust the head position on the forward view with arrow left (left) arrow down (back) and page up (up) - when youre done F10 to save the head position.
You know Schatzi, I have been doing this for about 7-8 months now and never even thought of posting it up in here! :rofl I have both my front-right/left views set up like that. You can see over there anways but never to that outside postion. I have the big problem of getting fixated on the target and then getting antsy on them during a rolling scissors move and lose track of them. Once I started flying with the AK's I realized this really helped as that move works really well.... especially when I guy can't see over his nose at what your doing. :D
Great write up girl! Screen shots are good too, helps explain it very well. :aok
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cc that blagard, i was forced to on an old stick because the hat was playing up, eversince a few months of that i have found it hard to go back to using the hat for the look back view.
it also gives me two free hat possitions bottom left and right, as you can press lookback button and side hat for check6 left and right. at present i keep them unassigned to stop hitting down trim by mistake.
unfortunate solution to a mortaly wounded stick that i could never change back now :)
this is using a saitek cyborg twisty stick with limited buttons, as long as you can manage to hit both back view and forward left/right view keys at once its all good.
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Originally posted by Murdr
X Rotation > Analog Inputs View Move Left/Right
Y Rotation > Analog Inputs View Move Up/Down
At least thats the tumbsticks axis assignment on my system.
Edit: I did have to turn on scaling, and add some deadband to those two axis to get them to work properly.
thanks chief I'll give that a shot... :aok
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I've had my mini set-up like that for months and use it often to look "around" the canopy frame work, but in the heat of battle.... just never thought of rolling it up and over the nose.... Dohhh!
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If the micro stick is calibrated, and you have the deadband and scaleing set, when ya let go of the microstick, other view functions should function as normal.
Yes Murdr , yes I found that out , thanks .
I tried it and it's somewhat like trackir but with the thumbs :)
My mini stick shakes alot , and doesn't recenter to well either , so I undid it again . The number 4 stick set did work though :O)
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I had also at one time tried to set the micro-stick to pan mode. While it did work, I was not precise enough for what I wanted. That isn't the setting I was talking about though. I am refering to using the micro-stick in place of the arrow keys, so you can lean over or alongside the nose at the flick of the thumb. It is also handy for when the cockpit frame is blocking the view of what you want to look at.
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it's going to take some getting used to but I got it working. I may reverse the axis as it seems like a more natural motion to me. that's some cool stuff murdr :aok I owe you the beverage of your choice sir
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Originally posted by TW9
also if u place the mouse pointer on the center dot of your gunsite u can use that as an aiming reference when using an "other than default" view ;) works with osti's and gunner positions aswell.
ahh nice tip.. I often fly with my view to the off set like his example but always have to revert back to center when I start shooting. Going to have to try that one out. :aok