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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Leslie on January 19, 2007, 09:31:43 PM

Title: Weird car problem
Post by: Leslie on January 19, 2007, 09:31:43 PM
Thought I might submit this automotive problem for your consideration.  The mechanics seem puzzled by what is going on, and I figgured someone here may know what to look for.  I hope my description of events below isn't too confusing.

I recently had a new carburetor installed on my '73 Olds 98.  The first two didn't work and I sent the car back to the shop.  I noticed when I got the car back the first time that sometimes the Temp light blinked on startup...not every time but sometimes.  They thought the wires to the thermostat were knocked loose from working around the carb.  They reconnected the wires, thinking that would fix the blinking Temp light concern.  I also had someone at the shop drive the car to a muffler shop to grind and gasket the leaking exhaust manifolds.  

When I got the car back it ran fine at first (though the Temp light was still blinking sometimes at start-up.)  After a few days the starter sounded like it was sticking on start-up. When the starter wasn't disengaging, both the Temp light and the generator light stayed on (that's when I would turn off the ignition and re-start the car.)   I had the exhaust manifolds reground and re-gasketed, but this problem with the Temp light blinking was going on before the manifold job.  The starter wasn't sticking before the exhaust manifold job.  [Prior to the sticking starter phenomenon, the mechanics at the shop thought it might be a loose wire to the thermostat caused from working around the carburetor.  They simply reconnected the wires better, thinking that would fix it.]

The other night about 3 AM I was grocery shopping at Wally World, and the starter stuck and I turned the ignition off and re-started.  Radio and heater fan didn't come on until I put the car in gear.  Drove about a quarter mile and the car's engine just went dead (radio and heater fan, headlights etc. all worked.)  Called AAA for a tow truck.

The engine is getting fuel and fire but won't start.  I was thinking maybe it could be the timing chain skipped or broke there at Wally World.  Had that replaced about 6 or 7 years ago...could be time for a new one I suppose.  I drive about 3k miles or less a year in that car.  I don't stress the engine when I drive.  Car has just over 104k on the odometer.  Mechanics speculated the ignition switch was going bad.  Thought someone here may have experience with this sorta thing.  So far, the mechanics say this is a "weird" problem and don't know what it could be. This is a great place to seek answers to baffling car problems.  Thanks in advance for any helpful suggestions and ideas from you motorheads.  




Les
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: Meatwad on January 19, 2007, 10:00:55 PM
I dont have the slightest idea, but if your mechanic dont have a clue you should ask another mechanic
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: sluggish on January 19, 2007, 10:16:26 PM
This is clearly an electrical problem that has been arising for some time.  It's an old car.  My guess is a harness short.  I'd rewire the whole thing.
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: Sixpence on January 19, 2007, 10:52:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by sluggish
This is clearly an electrical problem that has been arising for some time.  It's an old car.  My guess is a harness short.  I'd rewire the whole thing.


Where the heater and radio came on when he put it in gear, sounds like it might be a short in the column?
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: Leslie on January 19, 2007, 11:00:00 PM
Thanks guys.  Yes, kinda sounds like could be a short somewhere.  Hope it can be discovered somewhere easy to fix.  Would not be a simple job to redo the whole harness.




Les
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: sluggish on January 19, 2007, 11:01:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
Where the heater and radio came on when he put it in gear, sounds like it might be a short in the column?
The funny thing is, cars twist and flex, get hot and cool down.  All of this can make a bad connection short out.  I can't guess where it is, but I'd be willing to bet there is a bad connection or broken wire.  This kind of a problem is a nightmare.  that's why I would just rewire the whole thing and be done with it.
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: rpm on January 19, 2007, 11:26:30 PM
Quote
'73 Olds 98
^^^
There's your problem, right there. GM wiring.
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: Debonair on January 20, 2007, 12:36:09 AM
i got a ground spped indicator that frequently sticks at 42 MPH:noid :noid :noid :huh :huh :huh :huh
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: WhiteHawk on January 20, 2007, 06:52:30 AM
sounds like the keyswitch is bad.  The coil can only keep fire to the plugs when the keyswitch is in RUN, or start.  MAybe your RUN position is screwed which would make sense since your starter wouldnt disengage.  By the way, are you a classics guy?  If not, discard old POS and get a newer one.
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: culero on January 20, 2007, 07:39:24 AM
Replace your ignition switch. That should fix it.
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: uptown on January 20, 2007, 11:18:44 AM
Yes you have a short in the wiring.Because the starter was sticking and then not working at all, as well as the temp light coming and going, it's very likely to be in or around the ignition switch i.e., (key switch).You have several options here.If you don't have the tools, know how or time, pay a good trustworthy mechanic to fix it. But that will get pretty deep into your pockets.Or you could find the problem yourself with a $10.00 test light and wiring schmetic.Usually shorts will be at connection points,such as wire nuts or splices. There are several automotive electrical manuals on the market that will help the average joe fix any problem. JC WHITNEY is a good place to start.Before I forget, you'll also need a digital mulimeter to check ohms.Any parts store has this for around $20.00, as well as the $10.00 test light. If you ever have any questions just let me know. I do this crap for a hobbie, Believe it or not lol. Good luck and happy motoring!
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: WhiteHawk on January 20, 2007, 04:42:40 PM
I would suggest, if youre going to do it yourself to buy a haynes or a chilton manual and follow thier directions.  Their books arent the best, but they will save you a bundle in the long run.  I dont even know how to get a keyswitch assembly out of a car, but I bet that is the problem.
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: Leslie on January 20, 2007, 06:07:39 PM
If that is the problem, is it possible to bypass the locking ignition switch where the key goes and use toggle switches to start the car?  That is, if getting to the ignition switch would involve damaging the steering column or steering wheel?  Or would that be not feasible or impractical?




Les
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: uptown on January 20, 2007, 06:22:23 PM
yes , you can bypass the key and use a toggle switch. I have a pulling truck and all the switches are toggled.But I don't advise doing that if you're not sure of what you're doing.If the key is in the column, you'll more than likely be able to unbolt or unscrew the column cover and just unplug the old switch,and plug in the new one.That's where the Chilton manual will be help. It'll guide you thruogh the whole process.If by chance you do have to pull the steering wheel, most part stores will rent steering wheel pullers to you. I'll check my manuals and get back to you
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: uptown on January 20, 2007, 06:48:30 PM
The closest thing I could find was for a 78 cutlass, and It's pretty straight forward. Just remove the lower dash trim around the column to the point where you can get to the switch, and unbolt it.Bolt the new one in, replace trim and you're good to go. No need to remove the steering wheel at all.
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on January 20, 2007, 10:19:31 PM
Could be they pinched or skinned the covers off some wires while working on the carb.  Short in the wires going to the starter would be my guess.  If thats the case, bypassing the ignition switch will do absolutely nothing to solve the problem.  I had a similar problem, someone replaced a part bolted to the inner fender on the driver's side and didnt notice the wiring harness running right underneath.  They pinched 2 of the wires under the part when it was bolted back on, and they shorted the ignition circuit.
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: mora on January 21, 2007, 06:52:37 AM
On those symptoms any able mechanic would check the keyswitch first.
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: culero on January 21, 2007, 12:06:15 PM
mora, on that car the key cylinder is by the wheel, but just drags a linkage rod. Thw switch the rod operates is on the steering column near the floor, really easy to get to.

The "Temp" light on those years of GM cars is supposed to illuminate during starter motor operation, as a bulb test - hence the clue that tells me its the switch sticking.
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: mora on January 21, 2007, 12:13:37 PM
OK, I meant the electrical switch operated by the ignition key. I'm not sure about the proper term in english, we usually call it "the bottom of the ignition lock", which wouldn't apply in this case though.
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: culero on January 21, 2007, 01:28:38 PM
Sure, I understood you meant that since I know where Euro-cars normally locate the switch. I was just explaining that in this case, its even easier than that :)
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: dmf on January 21, 2007, 03:30:30 PM
Heres my suggestion, buy a newer car.
My philosophy is never buy a car older than you are.
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: Wes14 on January 21, 2007, 03:32:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by dmf
Heres my suggestion, buy a newer car.
My philosophy is never buy a car older than you are.

agreed:cool:
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: uptown on January 22, 2007, 06:29:27 AM
Ever tried working on new cars...what a pain. It took me 15 minutes just to FIND the battery in my wifes car. Then, I had to take the front tire off to get to it!!!!!
In my old truck, I can replace the battery in 5 minutes. And all I need is a pair simple pliers.
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: moneyguy on January 22, 2007, 05:29:18 PM
im going with the ignition switch, its under the dash on top of the steering column and is moved by a rod that connects to the lock cylender (the thingy where the key goes). for a '73 it shouldn't cost more than $20 and is easily replaced.
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: wooley on January 22, 2007, 05:41:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by uptown
Ever tried working on new cars...what a pain. It took me 15 minutes just to FIND the battery in my wifes car. Then, I had to take the front tire off to get to it!!!!!
In my old truck, I can replace the battery in 5 minutes. And all I need is a pair simple pliers.


You're missing the point. The idea is not to have to work on them.

In saying that, I once had the embarrassment of having to take my 2002 Corolla to the dealer to get a headlight bulb changed - there was so little clearance at the back of the unit it was impossible to do without some serious dis-assembly.

There's something not right about having to ask another man to change a lightbulb for you :o :o
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: betty on January 22, 2007, 05:48:08 PM
well it can't b anything to do with ur carb IMO it sounds like serious electrical problems but them old cars dont have much for electrical, call painless wireing, they might now what it is, explain ur problem to them.










or it could b ur muffler bearing or ur blinker fluid..hehe jk



if all else fails.......SELL IT AND BUY BEER!
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: Debonair on January 22, 2007, 05:51:21 PM
noe 1 cares about my speedOmeter
even a care bear gave me teh fingar
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: dmf on January 22, 2007, 08:14:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by uptown
Ever tried working on new cars...what a pain. It took me 15 minutes just to FIND the battery in my wifes car. Then, I had to take the front tire off to get to it!!!!!
In my old truck, I can replace the battery in 5 minutes. And all I need is a pair simple pliers.


1) I'm a girl, we don't work on cars, thats what we have men for, well thats one of the things anyway.
2) Theres this guy down at the gas station called a mechanic that works on cars for me :)
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: Wes14 on January 22, 2007, 08:25:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by dmf
1) I'm a girl, we don't work on cars, thats what we have men for, well thats one of the things anyway.
2) Theres this guy down at the gas station called a mechanic that works on cars for me :)


lol, On the internet

1)Guys r Guys
2)Girls r Guts
3)lil' girls r FBI Agents

:noid :noid :noid
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: betty on January 22, 2007, 11:27:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by dmf
1) I'm a girl, we don't work on cars, thats what we have men for, well thats one of the things anyway.
2) Theres this guy down at the gas station called a mechanic that works on cars for me :)



hmmmmmmm....i'm a girl........

i luv to wrench on engines...and its awsome...buildin an engine..puttin everything together and havin it purrrrr like a kitten after its finshed..its like givin birth to a new born, u created it..just cuz ur a girl dont mean nuttin...learn ......try it...u might just like it
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: dmf on January 23, 2007, 04:46:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by betty
hmmmmmmm....i'm a girl........

i luv to wrench on engines...and its awsome...buildin an engine..puttin everything together and havin it purrrrr like a kitten after its finshed..its like givin birth to a new born, u created it..just cuz ur a girl dont mean nuttin...learn ......try it...u might just like it


Oh I know some stuff, I can change oil and filter, and a tire, and do little things, like spark plugs cap and rotor, and stuff, what I need a mechanic for is the complicated things like whet does what inside. Ever notice nothing on the outside ever breaks?
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: SunKing on January 23, 2007, 05:14:50 PM
Skuzzy, we need an automotive sub forum in here.
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: uptown on January 24, 2007, 03:38:48 PM
Building a hot rod was my passion until I discovered this game. I haven't worked on the thing in almost a year now. :(
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: Sikboy on January 24, 2007, 03:45:28 PM
If you're having a problem with your wierd car, you should consider purchasing a car that is not wierd.

-Sik
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: hyena426 on January 24, 2007, 04:26:22 PM
if your all your wiring is shot..you can buy a wiring harness from painlesswiring.com ..for like 300 bucks or so..they will hook you up with better than stock complete wiring setup..that takes about 10 hours to hook up if your good..lol..i would say a few days to a week for a average joe...but it suposta all hook up to your stock gear....ps les...it has tilt steering right? wires are proubly just shorted out in your colum..happens alot..lol

i enjoy classic cars my self..wouldnt give up my mach 1 cj for any new car!! i love to pull up at a stop light and have all eyes lookin at my beast..lol.. my freinds have some nice new cars...but they all wanna roll in my mach when we go to town..cause it gets about 100 times more attention than a new car..lol..newest rig i got is a 93...and its a work car..run till it drops...my mach thou...i dont care how many times it drops i will fix it..cause its worth it..lol
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: betty on January 24, 2007, 04:49:17 PM
i would call painless wiring first.....yes they have wiring harnesses but its not really painless, i've had run in's with them before..few times more than i wanted to actually. but they dont have too bad of techs there that can help ya with ur questions. that was my suggestion toward the beginning of this post ;)
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: hyena426 on January 24, 2007, 05:37:48 PM
Quote
yes they have wiring harnesses but its not really painless, i've had run in's with them before
 of cource:P what wiring in the world is really plainless? hehe..wiring is the most dreaded part of working on a rig..lol..so many wires and so many chances of them being ground out...and the fried wire or wires could be any were..from the front to the back,,lol..i would rather rebuild a motor than have to deal with wiring..but the motor wont run with out wiring..so you have to do the dirty deed once and a while and find your problem...done alot of wiring..and i hate it every time

plus you ruing a early 70 rig..which means it will have alot of fusible links..bad thing about fusible links is there hard to find when there toast...only way to tell if there fried is to cutt the link out and check if the conection wire is gone...wiring is the devil!! hehe
Title: Weird car problem
Post by: hyena426 on January 24, 2007, 05:41:40 PM
Quote
plus you ruing a early 70 rig
oppps,,ment runing..i tried to edit it.it wouldnt let me:( hehe