Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Krusty on January 22, 2007, 07:25:35 PM
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I took over for MacLeod (he's moved on to some other skin projects) and have this and a color profile:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1169502367_lka.jpg)
And have done some work on the skin.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1169509792_hurr1_4.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1169509803_hurr1_5.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1169509681_hurr1_3.jpg)
Before I get too deep into weathering and what-not, I need some help.
What squadron is this plane from? I don't know what to title it in the object.txt file.
Are the markings right? I have an image of the fuselage, but not of the wings upper or lower. Do I have the right type of roundels on the wings? Am I missing something else?
2 areas I know are wrong: 1) red stripe on radio mast 2) red diamonds under wings. These are both because the nose has red on it, and the mast comes from the side of the nose and the center of the nose comes from under the wings (doncha love Generation 1 skins?).
I've got a couple of ideas for weathering, but how heavily weathered was this thing? In the photo I can see a slightly darker stain where the exhaust was, but it doesn't look very scuffed by the wing root or anything. I'd imagine the ammo access panels would be heavily scratched, but what else?
EDIT: Oh, and what the hell happened to the "A" on the photo at the top??? I didn't know if I should replicate this or not. My thinking is they'd fix it whatever happened, but that's a wild guess.
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Ian Gleed, Co of 87 Squadron flew that hurri!
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Thanks!
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Check the fuselage Roundel Krusty. The yellow band on the skin is way too narrow. Red dot in center is too big.
Roundels on top are fine. They tended to skip the underwing roundel completely on black Hurris.
This one was a bit of a squadron project though as it's a Mk I and has 6 exhausts which was not the norm. Squadron CO's could get away with that kinda stuff though :)
The lettering A just shows where replacment fabric was placed or a replacement panal.
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Guppy, would you recommend I omit the underwing roundels, then?
As for the panel, would that have been painted over fairly quick, so that folks could tell it was an A?
I'm wondering if I should leave it an "A" on the skin, or mimick this panel.
I, too, noticed the 6-stack exhaust. Notice, also, he's got glare guards on either side of his canopy so he doesn't see any flames from the exhausts when flying at night?
EDIT: Also, is it me or does the canopy framing look like it's a different shade. Red, perhaps?
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I'd leave the roundels off the bottom of the wing. And I do believe you are correct that the windscreen framing was red.
There is a story in a book on the Hurricane written by Quentin Reynolds, where he talks about what I believe is this Hurricane. Now you have to keep in mind that Reynolds was propoganda at it's best, but the story he tells is of a Hurricane that survived the campaign in France but was a bit of a wreck.
The 'fitters' from that particular Hurricane's squadron took it upon themselves to try and improve the performance. To that end, they put a higher powered Merlin (A two stage if the story is to be believed) as well as the multiple exhausts and other refinements that made it a super Hurricane that out performed Spitfires and 109s, climbing like a homesick angel etc.
While the story was certainly embellished by Reynolds, I do believe that is the Hurricane in question.
I'd try and replicate the A on the fuselage as it is to give it that lived in look.
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Changed my mind on the underwing roundels. I found another photo of the bird in the same book that the photo you showed, that I posted earlier was in.
It does show the underwing roundels. They are smaller and further out towards the wing tips.
The Hurri is believed to be serial P2798 and that it did in fact see service in France during 39-40, and later was used in the night fighter role. In the other photo taken at a different time, the A on the fuselage remains broken up like the previous image.
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Same plane, later "style".
Would take care of the problem of the red diamonds on the lower wings -
(http://www.compass.dircon.co.uk/hurri.jpg)
Oops not its not it the Hurri IIc one.
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Kev: Yep, that's definitely a IIC. Also, I kind of like the red. I can stand a spot on the wings if it gets the nose looking right. In fact I had to do this on a C205 skin as well.
Guppy: How much smaller were the underwing roundels? We talking just a hair? Halfway through the blue? On the fuselage roundels I figured out my mistake. I remembered they should have had equal spacing, so I made a circle, reduced it to 66% for the next selection, and then for the center reduced it 33% (from original). What I didn't take into account was that the center should be 1/5th the total, not 1/3rd, as the white and blue on either side make up the other 4/5ths. I'll get those corrected soon (with a larger yellow as well).
Was that square badge under the cockpit supposed to be on both sides?
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Re: Exhaust gaurds - You are correct Krusty, they were there to block the glow from the exhaust, which would affect the pilots night vision.
Weathering - As this is a squadron leaders aircraft, I would think it would be kept in reasonable shape. Note that the picture you posted, shows very little exhaust staining and the lack of chipping around the engine panels.
No doubt the wing surfaces (ammo doors etc) would fare a little worse.
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There is a restored aircraft with these markings. It appears to be well done. It has under wing roundels.
Google Hurricane LK A, and check images.
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Here's the other photo. You can see the roundel under the left wing.
I'd go with the squadron leader's pendant on the right side too.
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Okay I've done some more work on it (slow going due to lack of time). I know the roundels are slightly larger on the real images, but I get into problems with cutting/stretching on the different sides of the fuselage if I go below a certain point, so I made them just a hair smaller to avoid these problems.
I haven't mucked up the "A" code yet. Wanted to find a reference or two about the fabric covering and metal panels. I found some, just need to put them to work now.
Also, it looks like the walkway might be light grey or white (for a nightfighter? probably grey) instead of black. See the first photo in this thread for what I mean.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1170723614_hurr1_6.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1170723625_hurr1_7.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1170723655_hurr1_8.jpg)
EDIT: D'oh! The ratio of the under-wing roundels is still off. Forgot to fix that (sigh). It's on the to-do list.
Edit2: Verdammt! I forgot to make the canopy red, as well.
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Krusty, when did you take that last screenie? THERES A CHUNK MISSING OUT OF THE PROP! lol. Think that MIGHT hinder the flying!
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Originally posted by macleod01
Krusty, when did you take that last screenie? THERES A CHUNK MISSING OUT OF THE PROP! lol. Think that MIGHT hinder the flying!
I noticed that myself after I took it. It's some sort of display bug where part of a tree is showing in front of the prop, instead of the other way around.
Nothing I can do.
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lol, thought you were testing how hardy the hurricane is by flying her into the ground
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Originally posted by macleod01
lol, thought you were testing how hardy the hurricane is by flying her into the ground
Very much so. At that angle you could probably land "wheels up" :).
Krusty.... thanks a lot for your sleepless nights, filled with nightmares of me ;).
I cant tell you enough how happy I am you make this skin!
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Ditto that Schatzi. Im just kinda disappolinted that it wont be my name by the side. Oh well, plenty more skins on the net! Good job Krusty. Thanks for taking over
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started a mk2c that was the later of this plane, finished it, and submitted got no responce from hitech, shortly after i took a break from AH. and now that im back i wanna see my baby flying in the sky. anyone mind to do some nitpicking on it?
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/toadflak/ahss1.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/toadflak/ahss2.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/toadflak/ahss3.jpg)
and krusty if you want any of the textures or markings, just ask, dont mind sharing my work. im just here as a way for this bird to get in the air.
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Sure you have the right lower wing roundels on the IIc?
Fuselage and tail are the early type 'A' roundels, the lower ones are type 'C'.
Lower type 'A' are 3 equal sized rings. (like the fuselage one but without the yellow outer ring)
[edit] No lower roundels on this one.
Also codes look too low -see pic (ignore colors they are washed out)
(http://www.strijdbewijs.nl/top/p/HU01.jpg)
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Going by the photos I have of the Mk.I, the "A" would be in front of the roundel on both sides.
Also, you have some white on the port gun barrel shrouds. I'm not sure what's up with that.
As mentioned the roundels
Oh, and your blue/white/red stripes under the cockpit seem a bit long and too far aft. They are crossing the panel line and they should be in front of it
I think the ribs on your ailerons are quite pronounced, and either way, the elevators/rudder/ailerons should all look similar becase they were all fabric-covered. I'd suggest either making the rudder/elevators look like the ailerons, or vice versa, but not mixed.
EDIT: Oh, and you've got white rings around the gear. This was on the hurr1 template as well. You'll need to remove those.
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I've got a problem....
The canopy can be made red, except for one part. The front of it. This uses the inside of the cockpit. If I change the color on that part to red, the inside of the canopy also goes red.
Normally I'd sacrifice a bit elsewhere to get the proper external colors going, but I don't know if folks would like flying with a bright red interior....
You be the judge (image scaled down for size reasons).
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1170904592_hurr1_9.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1170904601_hurr1_10.jpg)
If I leave it default the entire frame around the armored glass is black (but not any of the arms reaching to it).
P.S. Don't ask about the little black squares at the bottom of the armor frame, I can't fix that unless I make huge parts of the instrument panel bright red.
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More, outside of the canopy area.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1170906295_hurr1_11.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1170906306_hurr1_12.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1170906351_hurr1_13.jpg)
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Dang, thats a tough one Krusty.
I guess id accept it either way, but that bright red definitly throws me a bit. Would get used to it probably tho.
How odd would it look if that amor glass frame would be black on the outside? Also, I dont know what HTC acceptance of "altering" the skins exteriour would be.... I guess my point is: how often does someone get close enough in the Arena to actually SEE that the single cockpit frame isnt red on the outside?
Also a question on your screenshots..... on some the headrest is red too, on others it isnt.... whats that mean? Do you plan on making the ENTIRE cockpit inside red, instead of only the one frame?
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When you zoom in close enough, you display the cockpit. The cockpit has the green parts already set up.
However, when you zoom out and the pilot appears you're not viewing the cockpit, you're just viewing the continuation of what's on the fuselage (in this case, the red canopy color). Newer models have fixed this, but the hurr1 is a "Geneation 1" model, and has many flaws.
Schatzi, the enemy won't be the ones appreciating the red canopy, it'll be the person flying it. I'll post a screenshot of what it looks like black.
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Hrm... I've discovered something odd....
The black frame only shows up when zoomed in so far that the pilot disappears. Outside of this it's red. This is very strange.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1170960404_hurr1_14.jpg)
One side shows it just outside the point where the pilot disappears, and the other just past the point where the cockpit kicks in.
I think I might leave the interior untouched, and if folks want to see the red on the outside all they have to do is zoom out a bit.
EDIT: Oh and I've got an idea for minimizing the large red area behind the pilot. I'll post some more screenshots later.
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Oh, enemies get CLOSE. I was gonna link to a picture but I cannot find it. Suffice to say I spent about 30 seconds straight about 5 feet from a P-51. We were inverted and stalled, and he was about 5 feet below me. When I went back and checked his view I could count the pannel lines and rivets on the bottom of my wing. Recently, especially in the Hurricane, ive been getting VERY close, normally in scissors. And I know a missing bar like that would be unendingly annoying, but since the red appears when you zoom out I can live with it ;)
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Serenity, when youll be meeting a HMk1 in your 2C, youll definitly have other troubles then its canopy frames :).
Krusty, since the black appears only at very close range, Id like to agree on the interior with you. Id rather forego the.... satin red looks of the cockpit .
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I was able to get rid of the red on the sides behind the canopy when zoomed out, but not the red behind the pilot's seat. Oh well, it looks better to me.
I think I'm almost done. I don't have much experience weathering black like this. I tried some new things I've been thinking about since I did that Ki84 a while ago. Let me know what you think.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1171477351_hurr1_15.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1171477364_hurr1_16.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1171477377_hurr1_17.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1171477390_hurr1_18.jpg)
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Looks good krusty!
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*droooooooool*
:)
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(*passes Schatzi a hankerchief*)
At first I wanted to make the weathering and details lighter than the black itself, then I realized I'd go the other way. The skin wasn't black, it was a dark grey. So I'd make the details even darker. When you have a line of rivets or what-not that are painted and you put them in the sun and they fade, usually the space between the rivets holds up the best (not entirely sure why). I don't mean on aircraft, I mean on things I've seen, old rusted drums, paint on walls and on wooden shelves and decks and so forth.
So what I did was I made shadow-like dark spots behind all rivets and all panel lines, as if these were the original colors and the rest had faded, but this was more what it should be like.
As for the areas of the wing where armorers would be, I could have gone two ways. I could have made them lighter or darker. On the Ki84 I did I made them lighter, but this was for several reasons. On this one I was thinking the coat of paint would be much higher quality than the IJA paint. It would also be reapplied if it wore off. So I made the spots the armorers would scuff up darker. Think of it as they're wearing down the surface of the paint into a smoother (more glossy) area by constantly rubbing on it, standing on it, lying on it. They're scraping off the matt coating.
That was my thinking. Like I said: I wanted to try some new things.
Jury's still out on whether they're good things or bad things.
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Krusty, just and FYI. The Hurricane in question was the mount of 87 squadon CO Ian "Widge" Gleed. It had his personal emblem, Disney's "Figaro" cat smashing a swastika under the cockpit rail on the right side.
Best I can do so far is this scan of the marking from a model kit I have.
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Oh, thanks for the heads-up! First I've heard of it.
EDIT: Don't know how well that's gonna show up on a black background. Did it have a white cloud around it or any other background color?
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Restored Hurri in those same markings
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Looks like the darker black shows up against the gray/black of the scheme if the restored bird is any indication.
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Thanks.
Hrm... well I might have to tweak the colors a bit to get it working.
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:noid
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It's often best to start a separate thread. I think this is the case, since both skins are very close to each other and seeing hurr1 and hurr2c screenshots back to back could lead to confusion. If you post a new thread I do have a suggestion or two, and one thing to point out.
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Sorry for the delay. Nose art up.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1171746427_hurr1_19.jpg)
I want to do a few tweaks near the control surfaces, but other than that I think I'm done.
Unless anybody has suggestions after I post some "final" screenshots later.
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1171748573_hurr1_20.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1171748585_hurr1_21.jpg)
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/hurr1_22.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1171748641_hurr1_23.jpg)
Some "action" shots.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1171748662_hurr1_24.jpg)
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/hurr1_25.jpg)
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Actually I've got a question. On the underside and fuselage roundels the roundels had a specific size ratio. That is each "layer" was the same width as the next. However, on the top roundels I just did 50%.
Is it supposed to be 50%? Or should it be 33% (1/3 blue, 1/3 red, then 1/3 blue on the other side again)??
If anybody knows please chime in.
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Never mind! I found a reference on one of the resources I have. It says the entire roundel would be 35 inches, and the center would be 14 inches. That's about 40% of the full diameter. I'll make that change (simple enough).
Since I've not had any other comments I'm going to wait a day or so then submit it.
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Submitted.
Who knows, maybe it'll make this skins pack. Doubt it, but it would be cool.
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beaut job Krusty
put me on the waiting list...
Do you find out release date?
Must be a squad op if you do
repect
Jimmy
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I don't know it'll even make it into the current skin pack. Might have to wait a while for the next one (months down the road).