Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: VERTEX on January 23, 2007, 05:20:39 PM
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Why is the AH Mosquito not capable of 400 mph. Aparently even the first models could do 400mph. I took our mosquito to various altitudes up to 36,500 and could not get 400mph in level flight.
Anyone know. Is it undermodelled in AH?
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I made the same mistake with the P-38 about six years ago (and was mocked mercilessly for it). You're probably looking at indicated, not true. At high altitude, the difference can be very great; in this case, perhaps 30%. If I were you, I'd delete this thread, now.
If that's not the case, then I can't help you. Apparently, however, we do not have the fighter variant of the Mosquito in Aces High II.
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Vertex, here's a good writeup for specs of Mossy
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/AARG/mosquito.html
And if you click on Game Info- Planes,Vehicles,Boats and select the Mosquito you will see performance within the game.
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Benny:
I used the E6B flight computer to give me the true airspeed, groundspeed etc.
I cant remember exactly but I think the highest level speed I could get was
about 365mph.
Indicated airspeed was much lower. Cant recall the exact figure.
Recently watch a documentary about the Mosquito and 400mph was given repeatedly as within the airplanes capabilities.m Just curious why ours doesnt go that fast.
When I did my test flight in AH I started with 100% fuel and zero loadout.
Ended up flying for about 45 mins to 1 Hr and covered about 8 sectors.
It was lots of fun coming down. Not something I would do again though anytime soon.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
I made the same mistake with the P-38 about six years ago (and was mocked mercilessly for it). You're probably looking at indicated, not true. At high altitude, the difference can be very great; in this case, perhaps 30%. If I were you, I'd delete this thread, now.
If that's not the case, then I can't help you. Apparently, however, we do not have the fighter variant of the Mosquito in Aces High II.
dunno where you heard that benny...
we have the FB Mk VI, the main fighter variant. unfortunately it is modelled with the flame dampers that were used on some mossies to decrease visibility at night, and they create a lot of drag, decreasing max speed at all alts by about 20 mph. also, the mossie we have never did 400, those were the later war variants with more powerful merlins, such as the B Mk XVI, whch would be a great perk bomber in AH i reckon.
when HTC redo the mossie, i'm sure that if they add new versions, they'll be the B Mk IV and XVI
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Originally posted by VERTEX
Benny:
I used the E6B flight computer to give me the true airspeed, groundspeed etc.
I cant remember exactly but I think the highest level speed I could get was
about 365mph.
Indicated airspeed was much lower. Cant recall the exact figure.
Recently watch a documentary about the Mosquito and 400mph was given repeatedly as within the airplanes capabilities.m Just curious why ours doesnt go that fast.
When I did my test flight in AH I started with 100% fuel and zero loadout.
Ended up flying for about 45 mins to 1 Hr and covered about 8 sectors.
It was lots of fun coming down. Not something I would do again though anytime soon.
the flame dampers included in our mossie flight model (although not actually present on the 3D model :rolleyes: ) decrease the top speed by 15-20 mph.
i'm sure the show you were watching was talking about it easily reaching 400 (it would do it within a few seconds in a shallow dive), or they were talking about a late war version of the mossie (there were dozens of different models)
TV shows are often total garbage, take everything on them witha grain of salt
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
(although not actually present on the 3D model :rolleyes: )
They've always been modeled in AH.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1169597968_moss_flamedamper.jpg)
Air goes in the front, mixes with the exhausts, and comes out the lower back. Been there since the mossie came out, I'd wager.
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lol, really? i never noticed them...
just checked, they are there, can't believe i never noticed before hehe :)
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Our Mossie still being a 1st gen aircraft is another hybrid -
Only the first batch of Mossies of the line had flame dampers fitted as standard.
The second batch had no flame dampers and also had rocket capability added.
So you could argue that its a second batch Mossie with 'optional' dampers, but as there is no night, they need to go.
Also wondering - Is our Mossies rockets the 60lb one, or just a 'generic' one. They don't seem to do a hell of lot for 60lb'ers.
As an info bit - The fastest Mossie ever produced was the prototype.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
As an info bit - The fastest Mossie ever produced was the prototype.
Not surprisingly, this is often the case with most planes, unless there's a very major revision (like 190A to 190D), as the prototype is usually lighter, without military equipment and so forth.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
As an info bit - The fastest Mossie ever produced was the prototype.
Not really true as such.
The Mosquito prototype did about 390mph at a time when the Spitfire topped out at 370mph.
The fastest Mosquito was one of the prototypes reengined with Merlin 61s in 1941 or 1942 (I don't remember exactly), and that one did nearly 440mph.
The fastest Mosquito to see action in WWII was the Mosquito NF.30 with a top speed of 424mph. But that was at altitude, the FB.Mk IV with Merlin 25s and no flame dampers was much faster at low altitude than the NF.30 was.
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Thanks for all the good info guys.
Out of further curiosity, does anyone know what the top speed was withm a full bomb load at alt?
It seems like the AR 234 wasnt much of an improvement over the mosquito, in terms of bomb load and top speed.
Any comments?
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Many sources will confuse knots with MPH, so be wary of what you read. A knot is 15% longer than a mile, i.e., 100 knots = 115 MPH.
I find it very strange that so many sources quote MPH when most of the aviation community uses KIAS.
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Originally posted by VERTEX
Thanks for all the good info guys.
Out of further curiosity, does anyone know what the top speed was withm a full bomb load at alt?
It seems like the AR 234 wasnt much of an improvement over the mosquito, in terms of bomb load and top speed.
Any comments?
Mosquito B.Mk XVI with a 4,000lb cookie is faster than the Ar234 with three 500kg bombs because the Mossie carries it internally. Once the bombs are gone the Ar234 is about 65mph faster.
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Here's a question for you Mosquito experts.
It seems that the Mosquito had a very long range. I'm wondering why the allies didn't use the Mosquito as a bomber escort before P-51's or long-range P-38's became available. Was it that the fighter version of the Mosquito wasn't available in large enough quantities to allow use of them as US bomber escort? Was it just that people didn't think of it? Was it that the command staff thought of the Mosquito only as a bomber?
In my cursory research, it looks like the Mosquito started showing up in Jan, 1943 and that long-range Mustangs started being used for long-range escort in Aug-Oct, 1943. So, perhaps there weren't enough Mosquitos around prior to P-51's showing up.
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The mosquito had range, and it had firepower, but it was NOT a fighter plane. It was never used as a pure fighter [EDIT: as in send up a squadron on a fighter sweep over the channel, as in engage only enemy fighters and clear the skies], and for a good reason. It was not highly manuverable. Oh, to be sure, it could manuver well... for a bomber, but then so could the Ju88 and so could the He111. Neither of those were put into long range fighter duties, even though the Ju88 had heavy fighter variants.
The simple matter is that, aside from pure speed, the Mosquitos would have been totally outclassed by the average 109s and 190s.
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Originally posted by Krusty
The mosquito had range, and it had firepower, but it was NOT a fighter plane. It was never used as a pure fighter [EDIT: as in send up a squadron on a fighter sweep over the channel, as in engage only enemy fighters and clear the skies], and for a good reason. It was not highly manuverable. Oh, to be sure, it could manuver well... for a bomber, but then so could the Ju88 and so could the He111. Neither of those were put into long range fighter duties, even though the Ju88 had heavy fighter variants.
The simple matter is that, aside from pure speed, the Mosquitos would have been totally outclassed by the average 109s and 190s.
Barring the use as a night fighter I'd like to add.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Krusty
The mosquito had range, and it had firepower, but it was NOT a fighter plane. It was never used as a pure fighter [EDIT: as in send up a squadron on a fighter sweep over the channel, as in engage only enemy fighters and clear the skies], and for a good reason. It was not highly manuverable. Oh, to be sure, it could manuver well... for a bomber, but then so could the Ju88 and so could the He111. Neither of those were put into long range fighter duties, even though the Ju88 had heavy fighter variants.
The simple matter is that, aside from pure speed, the Mosquitos would have been totally outclassed by the average 109s and 190s.
Not entirely true. Mosquito FB.Mk VIs were often used as escorts for other Mosquito FB.Mk VIs. The ones assigned as fighter cover wouldn't carry bombs and would flying above the ones assigned to strike. Mustang Mk III and Mustang Mk IVs were also used for this.
Mosquito FB.Mk VIs were also used as escorts for Mosquito FB.Mk XVIIIs.
That said, none of the early fighter Mossies had high blown engines, so they wouldn't have worked at all as fighter escort for the heavies.
Comparing the Mossie's effectivness as a fighter, well, no big aircraft is going to be as nimble as a single engined fighter. The one case I can think of off hand where a squadron of Mosquito Mk VIs had a daylight fight with an Fw190A squadron resulted in 8 lost Mossies and 4 lost Fw190s. This was a strike force of Mossies that was caught from above as it returned from the mission. 8 to 4 when fighting from a disadvantage and in a multirole aircraft isn't too bad.
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The Germans considered the mossie so hard to kill that Goring would credit a pilot with two kills if it was a mossie he shot down.
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Originally posted by VERTEX
The Germans considered the mossie so hard to kill that Goring would credit a pilot with two kills if it was a mossie he shot down.
That is, I am pretty sure, a myth.
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Bronk, of course. Night fighters and zerstorers (bomber interceptors) didn't need to dogfight, they just needed speed and firepower.
Karnak, well that's a slightly different occasion. The Mosquito bombers were already hard to catch. If you *did* catch it, it would only take a slight distraction for it to slip away. Having to break 90 degrees because there's something on your tail, even if that something just kept going and rejoined its friend, would leave you miles behind the target when you turned back toward it. I don't count that as a real "fighter" use for the Mosquito, just because of the nature of the mosquito missions
Vertex: Actually it wasn't hard to kill, it was hard to CATCH. I don't know if he offered to count them as 2 kills, but they were the bane of his existence for a while. They were just too damn fast for the LW planes to stop, most of the time.
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A lot of what they were dealing with the also heavy German fighters. For example, in that documented instance in which an FB.Mk XVIII knocked the engine off of a Ju88 with a 57mm round, the Ju88s there were fighters and in a melee with the escorting FB.Mk VIs while the FB.Mk XVIIIs went after the ships in the fjord.
The Ju88s got their tulips handed to them, FYI.
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I fully believe they would get their arses handed to them :D
I've flown the Ju88 in AH to appreciate that it *could* make a good heavy fighter, but even a typhoon or a mossie or a fw190 would hand it its arse in a dogfight.
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Originally posted by Karnak
This was a strike force of Mossies that was caught from above as it returned from the mission. 8 to 4 when fighting from a disadvantage and in a multirole aircraft isn't too bad.
... and flown by pilots who were not trained in dogfighting as a prime role.
The story of the mosquito always revolves around the same central axis - it was so different and radical idea that the decision makers didn't believe in it. Biggest problem was it was given to bomber command who weren't imaginative enough and didn't know what to do with it - both as a bomber and as a fighter. It was ready for action in summer 1941, after many delays due to skepticism and still it took bomber command a long long time to figure out what it could do.
As stated many times before, it could do what ever the heavy bombers could do - only more accurately, faster, less expensive, and lowering the cost in lives. Potentially, while no ideal, it could also be an escort to itself (fighter escorting bomber variant) in a time when no other fighter could provide escort all the way to Berlin and back.
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Originally posted by bozon
....Potentially, while no ideal, it could also be an escort to itself (fighter escorting bomber variant) in a time when no other fighter could provide escort all the way to Berlin and back.
Much like the Tornado series of modern aircraft :)
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The comment I remember most about the Mossie was: ...."every Commander wished he had more of them" ...