Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: FrodeMk3 on January 28, 2007, 02:58:18 AM
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Before posting this, I did a coupla searches on this topic, and found none.
I've seen this phrase being thrown around...But, It would be nice to hear what kind of things actually constituted "Slum Behaviour" and an "Unhealthy environment".
Thank you in advance for replies, It helps bring everyone up to speed on this subject.
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Is "Slum Behavior" anything like vulching?
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Originally posted by crockett
"Slum Behavior" - taking all of TT bases!
:aok :D
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i never felt unhealthy in the old ma!!
i must have been delusional.
but now i guess i would hafta say i feel----------
used.
feelin like a ho,
Boner
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"slum behavior" when i hear that work i think of bombing dweebs killing TT's vh's killing gv's is fune'they will pop back up but bombing TT is as low as u can get besides taking TT bases like skyrock said.Every time i hear bombs near my tiger i start FREEKING OUT MAN :O
all
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you can take the people out of the slum
but you can,t take the slum out of people!!!!
still hangin in da hood,
Boner:cool:
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I think some of the Slum behavior has to do with the "griefing", hordes, bombing TT and FT, just all those stupiud things that were done to tick people off. Yes we still have that to some extent, but old habits are hard to break !
A couple years ago the arenas had more "tactical" minded players. some squads ran missions, some squads did fighter sweeps ( real sweeps, not just lurking over a base vulching). There were country leaders that put up missions and got groups of people to work together for a goal weather it was defence ( porking troops along a whole front to slow a "winning the war" type run) or attack to push the front back. There was any type of fight you wanted. Ground attacks, missions, even the "loner" type could find small furballs to play in.
All that changed when the "Mega-Hordes" showed up. Instead of working a base with a plan, they would just roll in with huge number supiriority and crush the opposition. Trying to defend against the horde wasn't much fun so the defenders would move to "greener pastures" which is what brought the fights where all you see are 3 hordes. one from each county, attacking the next countries undefended flank.
HTC is working to bring back the "old days" style of play. Limiting the numbers in the arenas helps kill the hordes. The new capture system (needing 40% of BOTH opposing countries bases for a win) forces the "two front war" back into the game. Its going to be slow going till the communitty gets its collective heads out of their butts and gets with the program. Too many still have that "gang" mentallity and just keep making runs to a base in a conga line trying to keep up with each other in stead of joining up and going in with a group with a plan....IE you hit this, I hit this then this happens and so on.
Last night it looked like the Knights had it going pretty good against the rooks. They snuck in and grabbed a base on the shore a couple sectors back from the front line. This forced the rooks into a 3 front war spreading the numbers out a bit. It took most of the night and the rooks lost 3 bases and a CV before things started to turn around for the rooks. There were a couple of big fights, but un like the old "horde style" play the battles had 20-30 guys on EACH side fighting it out. Sure the rooks were not very organised in this and were running in to the fight in a conga line type attack, but the sides were fairly even and it was a good fight all around.
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A little game of connect the dots.
Pay attention to the dates please ;)
Below was posted on 1/26/2007
Originally posted by hitech
We now commonly cross 820 people online, and we are continuing to grow at a rapid pace. How do you see 1000 ,2000,5000 people in 1 arena playing let alone the tech problems in doing that.
Since we have made the split arena, every piece of data has been better.
# of deletes per month has been down.
# of new accounts has been up
% of players converting from free accounts to paying is substantial up.
average number of hours player per person is up.
So the answer to your question did the arena split work, I can absolutly state
it has worked exceeding well.
Below was posted BEFORE the above on 9/14/2006
Key words in blue.
Originally posted by pyro 9/14/2006
Why did you make this change?
We made this change because it will allow us to support an unlimited amount of players in a much healthier online environment that gives us better long-term growth. The single MA has grown to the point of being unhealthy. This is not a subjective evaluation, it is quantifiable and they are numbers that we look at every day. It is obvious that we simply cannot keep pumping more players into a single arena without hitting a stagnation point.[/color]
Why are you doing this now?
There is a convergence of factors such as current arena health, player mass, time of year and a couple of things in the pipeline that we believe will provide an influx of players. Taken together, we believe this is the best time to make this transition.
Key Words “time of year”
Finally:
Originally posted by pyro 9/14/2006
Is this being done for technical reasons?
No. While some people on lower end machines may see some performance benefit, it is not for technical reasons that the change is being made.
Originally posted by hitech 1/26/2007
1 question. And one statement.
We now commonly cross 820 people online, and we are continuing to grow at a rapid pace. How do you see 1000 ,2000,5000 people in 1 arena playing let alone the tech problems in doing that.
I think it is very obvious what the “Slum” phrase was meant to accomplish.
(Insert bug in ear)
However I think it has become obvious that the slums now occupy ALL of our arenas.
The KEY word here is “Saturation”
Basically we now have a lower percentile of slumage in each arena.
I used to live in Arizona as a young man. The house my Mom and Dad bought in 1975 was in the Sticks. (10 other houses within a 3- mile radius)
That same house is now surrounded by a 50-mile radius of housing developments that have no vacant lots! That house in now surrounded by shopping centers and of the like. It is basically in the city now
As a result the gang types have sprawled to within a few miles of our old house, which was about 20 miles north of Down Town Phoenix where the gangs originally resided.
Can we eliminate the slums?
Not without eliminating subscriptions.
Can we manage them to an acceptable level?
Yes, by giving them room to grow. (Urban Sprawl) :D
So: the phrase "Slum environment" is a built in (blame ourselves) tool.
While "Healthy Environment" refers to subscribing customers. ;)
I am evil! :t
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
I think some of the Slum behavior has to do with the "griefing", hordes, bombing TT and FT, just all those stupiud things that were done to tick people off. Yes we still have that to some extent, but old habits are hard to break !
A couple years ago the arenas had more "tactical" minded players. some squads ran missions, some squads did fighter sweeps ( real sweeps, not just lurking over a base vulching). There were country leaders that put up missions and got groups of people to work together for a goal weather it was defence ( porking troops along a whole front to slow a "winning the war" type run) or attack to push the front back. There was any type of fight you wanted. Ground attacks, missions, even the "loner" type could find small furballs to play in.
All that changed when the "Mega-Hordes" showed up. Instead of working a base with a plan, they would just roll in with huge number supiriority and crush the opposition. Trying to defend against the horde wasn't much fun so the defenders would move to "greener pastures" which is what brought the fights where all you see are 3 hordes. one from each county, attacking the next countries undefended flank.
HTC is working to bring back the "old days" style of play. Limiting the numbers in the arenas helps kill the hordes. The new capture system (needing 40% of BOTH opposing countries bases for a win) forces the "two front war" back into the game. Its going to be slow going till the communitty gets its collective heads out of their butts and gets with the program. Too many still have that "gang" mentallity and just keep making runs to a base in a conga line trying to keep up with each other in stead of joining up and going in with a group with a plan....IE you hit this, I hit this then this happens and so on.
Last night it looked like the Knights had it going pretty good against the rooks. They snuck in and grabbed a base on the shore a couple sectors back from the front line. This forced the rooks into a 3 front war spreading the numbers out a bit. It took most of the night and the rooks lost 3 bases and a CV before things started to turn around for the rooks. There were a couple of big fights, but un like the old "horde style" play the battles had 20-30 guys on EACH side fighting it out. Sure the rooks were not very organised in this and were running in to the fight in a conga line type attack, but the sides were fairly even and it was a good fight all around.
so the difference between a "horde" with a plan and a "gang" with a plan
and "20 to 30 guys" with a plan is----??????????
the knights snuck in and took a undefended base?????
how unhealthy.
so with smaller maps , we have smaller hordes????
but they have a plan??
i see no difference in the way people are playing now, compared to the way people played in the old ma.
cept now the sides are ususally off balance.
all those who bomb and or take bases on tt or ft should be banished to the ew and mw arenas for a month!!!!
that will give the regulars in ew and mw some prime targets!!!!
nothing personal here fugitive
just some observations , that i,m sure are way off the mark on my part.
am i healthy yet doc???
Boner
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Originally posted by 1Boner
am i healthy yet doc???
Boner
Not yet...but you do seem to be making a little progress. :D
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None the adjectives, such as "unhealthy" made or make sense to me. That is, when I tried/try to match up those descriptions with things as they were or are (we're healthier now?), I fail to comprehend, undersand, and/or "see" what the problem was and the evident superority of the "fix."
I'm obtuse.
All the Best,
hap
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Hap..."Health" isnt a refrence to our wellbeing. Its rather a refrence to the wealth..cough...to HTCs health.
And NO i am not complaining about that nor do i blame them.
Its really a matter of damage control on their part IMO.
They know it will always have the riffraff...But need to keep it managable as to not run anyone off.
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Originally posted by 1Boner
so the difference between a "horde" with a plan and a "gang" with a plan
and "20 to 30 guys" with a plan is----a horde is 30-50 guys attacking a base with only a few to defend it. There is no plan they just steam roll in and move on to the next base. Now a days the "horde" is smaller and does not have such a number supiriority that it can't be defend against.
the knights snuck in and took a undefended base?????
how unhealthy.not unhealthy at all. They made a plan and excicuted it. The rooks on the other hand were not paying attention and were surprised by the attack, and before they could mount a good defence the Knights had captured a number of bases. good clean fun.
so with smaller maps , we have smaller hordes????
but they have a plan??at this time, not always :) Theres where the problem lies still. Collectively, the community must un learn the horde mentality and re-lean the tactical side with working together... well at least not going out of there way to spoil others fun by bombing TT or FT and such
i see no difference in the way people are playing now, compared to the way people played in the old ma.
cept now the sides are ususally off balance.when was the "old play" for you? Your BBS date is only a year ago so if that was when you started, ya you joined right in the middle of the slum building. I'm talking a 3-4 years ago when max in the MA was 250-300. Is they way we have it now much the same as a year ago? Id say yes, but with the changes made I also see it starting to change again. Like I said, its going to take some time till people get with the program.
all those who bomb and or take bases on tt or ft should be banished to the ew and mw arenas for a month!!!!
that will give the regulars in ew and mw some prime targets!!!!thats who is in the MW and EW already doing the milk running !!
nothing personal here fugitiveno problem. Like I said it will take time. The old days the player base was more WWII buffs looking to live the "glory days" of fighter combat, when ya had to get in close to kill. Now adays it has more of a "game" feel to it and a lot of kids who were brought up "playing to win" at all cost. To most of the new players its just anouter game, to the old timers its a dream they are trying to live even if it is is from behind a computer in stead of a dashboard of a cockpit.
just some observations , that i,m sure are way off the mark on my part.
am i healthy yet doc???
Boner
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Originally posted by 1Boner
cept now the sides are ususally off balance.
Boner
Speaking from the nit view , are you nuts?
In the old ma can count on one hand the number of times nits had numbers. ( During my time of play)
As to the multi MAs, its starting to work.
I pop back and forth between LWMAs. Lately in blue I have heard more than a few "GD ENY. Thats it jumping sides." or "This eny sucks going orange".
IMHO HT need to crank the eny a bit more to get that affect sooner.
Flame away.
Bronk
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Love your sig, Bronk.
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Originally posted by Stang
Love your sig, Bronk.
Hmm which part?
:noid :noid :noid
Bronk
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:noid
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"But, It would be nice to hear what kind of things actually constituted "Slum Behaviour" and an "Unhealthy environment"."
This kind of thing is an inevitable consequence of the kind of people who play online flight simulators. It's like the difference between working somewhere where people are paid a bonus for good performance, and working for charity; the two environments attract a different kind of person.
Then you have to factor in the overwhelmingly male clientele. The game itself is driven by aggression - hunting, "saddling up", the overwhelming desire not to lose face. A lot of people here on these very boards would rather die than admit that they don't know the precise colour scheme of a certain subset of a Luftwaffe fighting group at a certain point in the war at a certain location. A bit of aggro is inevitable.
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Originally posted by KINGcobra
"slum behavior" when i hear that work i think of bombing dweebs killing TT's vh's killing gv's is fune'they will pop back up but bombing TT is as low as u can get besides taking TT bases like skyrock said.Every time i hear bombs near my tiger i start FREEKING OUT MAN :O
all
You know, I was in the MW arena last night, in TT, and was getting spawn camped so bad, that it got pretty frustrating. So I sunk down, and once I finally got up, started doing some camping myself. Well, a pretty well known player decided to up Lancs, and come bomb the snot out of all of us.
I personally didn't think it was a big deal, it's just part of the game. I wasn't mad at this guy, I actually joked with him about it on 200, because it's part of TT. I personally don't bomb the guys in TT, but only because if I'm in an aircraft, I'd rather be dogfighting.
I'm just short of understanding as to why everyone gets so upset. It's not like you have to drive for an hour to get back there. Is it because you lose all of your kills?
I really think that it's threads like these that keep the people doing it. This, and all of the griping on 200 about it.
I've come to learn that there are people who do what they do, just to hear people complain about it, and as long as people complain, they'll keep doing it.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
remember that the registered date is the date we all registered for the
1st time on these boards.
not how long we have been playing the game!!!!!!!!
i,ve been playing in the ma arena for over 2 years.
played in h2h for about a year before that.
yes, i,m still a noob, compared too alot of guys in here
still suckin my thumb,
Boner:aok
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Originally posted by Apeking
"But, It would be nice to hear what kind of things actually constituted "Slum Behaviour" and an "Unhealthy environment"."
This kind of thing is an inevitable consequence of the kind of people who play online flight simulators. It's like the difference between working somewhere where people are paid a bonus for good performance, and working for charity; the two environments attract a different kind of person.
Then you have to factor in the overwhelmingly male clientele. The game itself is driven by aggression - hunting, "saddling up", the overwhelming desire not to lose face. A lot of people here on these very boards would rather die than admit that they don't know the precise colour scheme of a certain subset of a Luftwaffe fighting group at a certain point in the war at a certain location. A bit of aggro is inevitable.
I think you might have answered your own question.
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Originally posted by Apeking
The game itself is driven by aggression - hunting, "saddling up", the overwhelming desire not to lose face.
I would argue the contrary, that the sissified nature in the MA that predominates now is anything but aggressive.
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Originally posted by Helrazr1
You know, I was in the MW arena last night, in TT, and was getting spawn camped so bad, that it got pretty frustrating. So I sunk down, and once I finally got up, started doing some camping myself. Well, a pretty well known player decided to up Lancs, and come bomb the snot out of all of us.
I personally didn't think it was a big deal, it's just part of the game. I wasn't mad at this guy, I actually joked with him about it on 200, because it's part of TT. I personally don't bomb the guys in TT, but only because if I'm in an aircraft, I'd rather be dogfighting.
I'm just short of understanding as to why everyone gets so upset. It's not like you have to drive for an hour to get back there. Is it because you lose all of your kills?
I really think that it's threads like these that keep the people doing it. This, and all of the griping on 200 about it.
I've come to learn that there are people who do what they do, just to hear people complain about it, and as long as people complain, they'll keep doing it.
Simply put. Its all words out frustration.
Also i think making a deal out bombing campers or spawn points is really an effort to get the player to stop shutting down our Camping fun :)
So in short. I don't actually think they are doing wrong...i just want them to stop! :t
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Originally posted by Apeking
This kind of thing is an inevitable consequence of the kind of people who play online flight simulators.
Actually, it's not. It is an inevitable consequence of the expansion of the game to include many people that do NOT play online flight simulators. Had a noob ask last night if this game was Death Match or Capture the Flag. There in lies the problem HT faces, expanding the customer base beyond simple folk that love the concept of simulated combat. The things people are talking about in this thread weren't a problem 4 or 5 years ago, because they weren't the norm. As the customer base expanded, they became the norm and that is what HT is trying to "fix".
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Actually, it's not. It is an inevitable consequence of the expansion of the game to include many people that do NOT play online flight simulators. Had a noob ask last night if this game was Death Match or Capture the Flag. There in lies the problem HT faces, expanding the customer base beyond simple folk that love the concept of simulated combat. The things people are talking about in this thread weren't a problem 4 or 5 years ago, because they weren't the norm. As the customer base expanded, they became the norm and that is what HT is trying to "fix".
There once was a women that went to the doctor.
Women: Doctor, it hurts when i push here.
Doctor: Then don't push there.
The best way to remove the pain is to eliminate its cause.
Or you could try to train the brain to tell the finger to stop pushing there. (good luck with that) LOL
Ever try to stop rubbing that sore spot on your back?
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Weak analogy, since eliminating the cause of the "pain" would kill the patient. Of course, the patient was dying anyway, so, the choice becomes do nothing and let it die a slow death or try some alternative treatments to deal with it. Personally, I perfer the second.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Weak analogy, since eliminating the cause of the "pain" would kill the patient. Of course, the patient was dying anyway, so, the choice becomes do nothing and let it die a slow death or try some alternative treatments to deal with it. Personally, I perfer the second.
Cutting off a finger kills the patient? Poor surgen.:rolleyes:
"alternative treatments to deal with it. Personally, I perfer the second."
yeah...you and the rest of the pharmaceutical industry.
Not to mention the alternative method causes kidney failure.
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Sure seems to me that things have improved in terms of both game play and community.
It seems like each of the MAs is building it's own community with folks showing more respect for each other and the fights seem to be more even. I've seen more 's back and forth then I ever have. Folks are more apt to interact with each other decently, etc.
And frankly I'm getting to recognize and know more of the people I'm playing with and against.
Last I checked that's how you build an online community, which can only benefit the game overall.
It's still the example we set for the new folks and the effort we put into making the community better.
And if nothing else, HT seemed pretty clear when he said it wasn't going back to the way it was.
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Originally posted by Stang
I would argue the contrary, that the sissified nature in the MA that predominates now is anything but aggressive.
Yep.
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Cutting off a finger kills the patient? Poor surgen.:rolleyes:
"alternative treatments to deal with it. Personally, I perfer the second."
yeah...you and the rest of the pharmaceutical industry.
Not to mention the alternative method causes kidney failure.
...and you would rather just ignore it and let the patient die. Yah...that makes a lot of sense.:eek:
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
...and you would rather just ignore it and let the patient die. Yah...that makes a lot of sense.:eek:
Let em die without wasting 5 years of treatment with endless hours upon hours in the hospital makin some rich bastage of a doctor a million$
Simply to prolong the pain and spend the next 5 years dying while experiencing all the pain of the side effects the treament is causing as opposed to the pain of the desiese?
umm Yes. :P
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Let em die without wasting 5 years of treatment with endless hours upon hours in the hospital makin some rich bastage of a doctor a million$
Simply to prolong the pain and spend the next 5 years dying while experiencing all the pain of the side effects the treament is causing as opposed to the pain of the desiese?
umm Yes. :P
...and if the disease is only terminal if left untreated? Heaven forbid that someone actually get paid for trying to save a life.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
...and if the disease is only terminal if left untreated? Heaven forbid that someone actually get paid for trying to save a life.
Well...thats the clincher in nearly every case isn't it?
My dads cancer was "treatable"
He died a year later.
So the question is, is it treatable?
The answer is much different depending on which side of the fence you are on.
BTW..this is fun Dialouge. ;)
I in no way blame the Doctors/Medical field for my Dads death.
Neither would he.
But I bet they are glad they talked him into the treatment.
I know my Mother regrets it now.
BTW this is bordering getting way off topic and silly...Better end it now..
NB..was interesting.
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Originally posted by 1Boner
remember that the registered date is the date we all registered for the
1st time on these boards.
not how long we have been playing the game!!!!!!!!
i,ve been playing in the ma arena for over 2 years.
played in h2h for about a year before that.
yes, i,m still a noob, compared too alot of guys in here
still suckin my thumb,
Boner:aok
ya I understand that the date is for the BBS. I've been flying here since Oct 01....jeez has it been that long? :confused: So ya you've never seen what the game was really like, back when it was a blast EVERY time you logged on. There was much less crap than there is today. Too many people looking for the short cuts instead of learning to fly and fight. No more "honor" for a better way of saying it.
However, like Guppy said its starting to come back around. Saluting players after a fight, chatting across countries, even meeting up with an enemy at a grid point to fly a little 1 on 1. Its getting there and the fun is coming back more often when I log on. Not so many frustrating night looking at a "no win" fight.
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Well...thats the clincher in nearly every case isn't it?
My dads cancer was "treatable"
He died a year later.
So the question is, is it treatable?
The answer is much different depending on which side of the fence you are on.
BTW..this is fun Dialouge. ;)
I in no way blame the Doctors/Medical field for my Dads death.
Neither would he.
But I bet they are glad they talked him into the treatment.
I know my Mother regrets it now.
BTW this is bordering getting way off topic and silly...Better end it now..
NB..was interesting.
Lost mine to heart problems 2 years ago next month. The last surgery he had was a long shot at best. But, it was the only chance he had. I do know about "desperate measures" and I believe the arena changes were not desperate...just needed. :)
...and bakatcha on the . :D
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Hmmm......
Based upon the replies so far, It seems that we can draw a few conclusions.
AH, With all of it's different features, appeals to a wide range of players. There are those whose interest lies in Air to Air combat. Then, there are those who like the team-oriented style of play. You have those who have more of an interest in MMOG tank battles(which there are not so many on the Web, believe it or not, at least on the scale of AH). And, you have many who like the Strategic aspects of the game.
We can judge, that do to the conflicts that all the different styles of gameplay, And do to the competive nature of the game, Somebody's always gonna be unhappy.
And the real clincher is, you will have somebody laughing and gloating over someone else's misfortune.
And since this is basic human nature...The only solution that would be "Healthy", is to make everyone a winner.
I agree with Apeking, as to his posted reply. It's proven true by all the "WTG"'s and attaboys that people get when the system message saying what kills landed and when pop up on the buffer.
NoBaddy Hit upon something, that kind of struck a chord in me. An influx of PC gamers, that would'nt know Richard Bong or Gunther Rall from Captain Kangaroo, have started to appear on the scene. True, some become history as the 2-week trial runs out...A few stay on. But does The Unreal Tournament mentality stay as well? What do we do, say, "Sure, come play AH, But before we let you online, answer me these questions three!"
1. What, Is your name?
2. What, is your quest?
3. What, is the airspeed velocity of an unladen Spitfire!?!?!?!?
Of course, the last is, All being individuals, Slum behaviour means different things to different people. The reason that HTC has had to take harsh reproach with some people, To institute these changes, makes me believe that he has been contemplating this for some time. I've Been watching AH grow for close to 3 yrs. now, and used to wonder about how large it would finally get. It's been stated that there wasn't a tech issue, But I've noticed that splitting the arena's seem to help influx larger numbers' of players. Let me put it this way: We started with AH as like being in a Model A Ford Street Rod club: We all had personal taste, and refinements in the way we played, and how we liked our rides, etc. Now, the street rod club has expanded to include other Brands and genres (No, I'm not implying that you will see Rodders hanging with import tuners) But it seems that's what we are trying to do. And, The Rodders are not liking what's happening at the car shows now. But, It's all money to the show promoter, and for him, the bigger, the better.
But, none of us can blame HTC for wanting to expand. Especially if it eventually means more resources( Expanded plane/GV?/Game features).
We would all look back and say, "Wow, we've come a long way...." I know that there's a few that look forward to TOD, but the reality is that many are here because of the MMOG type of MA's that we have now.
Once again, Ty for your replies.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Speaking from the nit view , are you nuts?
In the old ma can count on one hand the number of times nits had numbers. ( During my time of play)
As to the multi MAs, its starting to work.
I pop back and forth between LWMAs. Lately in blue I have heard more than a few "GD ENY. Thats it jumping sides." or "This eny sucks going orange".
IMHO HT need to crank the eny a bit more to get that affect sooner.
Flame away.
Bronk
I dunno about that.. there are certain planes I like to fly. When the eny keeps going up all it does for me is make me log off and do something else. I've never jumped teams but I've thought about it when the ENY gets too high.
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Originally posted by crockett
I dunno about that.. there are certain planes I like to fly. When the eny keeps going up all it does for me is make me log off and do something else. I've never jumped teams but I've thought about it when the ENY gets too high.
You don't have to jump sides, just jump server.
See how easy that is.
Bronk
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Had a noob ask last night if this game was Death Match or Capture the Flag.
:rofl
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
But does The Unreal Tournament mentality stay as well?
I believe the agreed upon metaphor on the BBs has been "Quake Mentality." :aok
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
But, It would be nice to hear what kind of things actually constituted "Slum Behaviour" and an "Unhealthy environment".
Based on watching this BBS over an extended period of time, and a few ventures into the slum, I always interpreted this phrase as code for an observation that the MA was becoming like Baghdad. You had a variety of death squads, intensely loyal to each other and growing in membership, who didn't care much about the rest of the population. The result was hording, ganging, suicide bombing, vulching, and very, very ugly talk on the radio and in the text buffer.
May not have anything to do with what HiTech had in mind, but that's the way I always interpreted it.
- oldman
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I didn't read everything before this but here you go...
I seem to recall that HT said something about a healthy environment has a sense of community; e.g. not being able to squelch the country channel.
I agree. To me, the new arenas remind me of the old days when 120 people flying on a Friday night was a lot and NDisle was a new map.
Also, I think he mentioned things become impersonal when too many people are flying.
I'm going off memory and summarizing from there. I'm probably wrong anyways.
[edit: becuase I r teh t4rd!]
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
crush the opposition.
I agree.
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Originally posted by Stang
I would argue the contrary, that the sissified nature in the MA that predominates now is anything but aggressive.
Feeling sort of agressive are we Stang? :D
hap
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Keep crying girls.
Yours truely,
The Dud
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Wow.... I just don't know where to start. This is where I start rambling, then edit, then post. Here I go.....
I'm 38 yrs old. I have a moral code that differs from a 25 yr old, which differs from a 15 yr old. The three of us see very different things when looking at an object. Perspectives are skewed to our "generation".
I've watched my understanding of "honor" fall to the wayside. A gentleman's agreement has lead to being shot in the face. I've heard my idea of honorable fighting being refered to as "DA rules". I've been ridiculed for my concept of loyalty, which appears to be as antiquated as honor.
I've read 15-20 different peoples ideas about "what's wrong" with the game.
OK, here it is in a nutshell:
Nothing.
Nothing is wrong. The game is evolving and HTC is evolving with it. I don't like what I see in the MA's any more than the rest of you, but guess what? It's not going to change. We can huff and puff and threaten to leave until we're blue in the face, and all that this is going to do is get you a blue face. The game is being filled with a new generation of player, one that I see get mocked and burned on an almost regular bases by those that have been playing for sometime.
Don't want to be bothered by a noob? Not a problem! He and his horde will run you over. May not happen today, but it will happen. We don't stand a chance. Right now, as far as I can tell, the noobs outnumber the vets by about 3 to 1. That's not counting the hordes of us "intermediate players" who have only been playing for a year or three.
What do the intermediates see? Well, I for one see a "vet" telling pilots that they're bad because the vet says so. That they need to fly "this way", because the vet said so. That everything is going to hell in a hand basket, because the vet said so.
You know what? Vets should take a step back and look at that's happening around them. We are getting left behind. Why? Again, because we're being outnumbered by a different mindset, a different perspective. I just love the "I remember when...." stories.
I guess my whole point is: Adapt. Evolve. Grow along the lines of the game. If you don't, then you'll be left in the dust, whining about "the good old days", which you haven't even begun to realize that you'll never see again.
Or go away.
By the way, some of us "intermediates" have to make the same choices.
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Originally posted by Stang
I would argue the contrary, that the sissified nature in the MA that predominates now is anything but aggressive.
I totally agree! You can find opposing herds of perch birds flying within a 5k distance of each other but none attack. They wait for one plane to venture into their lil space and the whole herd pounces. Whoever misses the shot runs like he11 back to their base so they can climb back up and repeat! It seems that many find the P-51 to be the best at performing this style of tactic. It's all you see sometimes, ponies over the fight, with a couple of Dora's thrown in for variety! :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by TexInVa
Wow.... I just don't know where to start. This is where I start rambling, then edit, then post. Here I go.....
I'm 38 yrs old. I have a moral code that differs from a 25 yr old, which differs from a 15 yr old. The three of us see very different things when looking at an object. Perspectives are skewed to our "generation".
I've watched my understanding of "honor" fall to the wayside. A gentleman's agreement has lead to being shot in the face. I've heard my idea of honorable fighting being refered to as "DA rules". I've been ridiculed for my concept of loyalty, which appears to be as antiquated as honor.
I've read 15-20 different peoples ideas about "what's wrong" with the game.
OK, here it is in a nutshell:
Nothing.
Nothing is wrong. The game is evolving and HTC is evolving with it. I don't like what I see in the MA's any more than the rest of you, but guess what? It's not going to change. We can huff and puff and threaten to leave until we're blue in the face, and all that this is going to do is get you a blue face. The game is being filled with a new generation of player, one that I see get mocked and burned on an almost regular bases by those that have been playing for sometime.
Don't want to be bothered by a noob? Not a problem! He and his horde will run you over. May not happen today, but it will happen. We don't stand a chance. Right now, as far as I can tell, the noobs outnumber the vets by about 3 to 1. That's not counting the hordes of us "intermediate players" who have only been playing for a year or three.
What do the intermediates see? Well, I for one see a "vet" telling pilots that they're bad because the vet says so. That they need to fly "this way", because the vet said so. That everything is going to hell in a hand basket, because the vet said so.
You know what? Vets should take a step back and look at that's happening around them. We are getting left behind. Why? Again, because we're being outnumbered by a different mindset, a different perspective. I just love the "I remember when...." stories.
I guess my whole point is: Adapt. Evolve. Grow along the lines of the game. If you don't, then you'll be left in the dust, whining about "the good old days", which you haven't even begun to realize that you'll never see again.
Or go away.
By the way, some of us "intermediates" have to make the same choices.
great post
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Originally posted by storch
great post
Thank you.
I've been sitting here waiting for the flamethowers and gunfire to start while I work on my resume...
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Originally posted by SkyRock
I totally agree! You can find opposing herds of perch birds flying within a 5k distance of each other but none attack. They wait for one plane to venture into their lil space and the whole herd pounces. Whoever misses the shot runs like he11 back to their base so they can climb back up and repeat! It seems that many find the P-51 to be the best at performing this style of tactic. It's all you see sometimes, ponies over the fight, with a couple of Dora's thrown in for variety! :rolleyes:
Is this really different?
I've been seeing the same thing my whole 3+ years here; shoot, at one time i WAS one of them!
Seems to me that's just a function of experience and skill. There may be more of them right now, yeah, because there HAS been a lot of growth in the last few months.
Remember though -- that growth has apparently happened because of higher RETENTION rates, not from having more 2 week trials. So, whatever those guyr are seeing is apparently better than what their cousins were seeing a while ago.
And for the vets who are frustrated with the perching BnZer's I had this happen yesterday, when after I had finished an extended low 1v1, a pony with 5k alt advantage and E advantage made repeated timid swoops on me. He was very careful to extend 1-2K and rebuild after each time I evaded, and it was VERY annoying. After I died (a lag death -- I lag rolled on my front end, lethal bullets hit while I was lining him up in FRONT of me!), I realised that while HE was timid, the real problem was that I wasn't efficient in killing him. If my lag rolls were better, if I was more aggressive, he would have been long dead.
In short, IF I CAN't KILL A LAMER, IT MEANS I'M AS DEFICIENT AS HE.
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Originally posted by Simaril
Is this really different?
I've been seeing the same thing my whole 3+ years here; shoot, at one time i WAS one of them!
Seems to me that's just a function of experience and skill. There may be more of them right now, yeah, because there HAS been a lot of growth in the last few months.
Remember though -- that growth has apparently happened because of higher RETENTION rates, not from having more 2 week trials. So, whatever those guyr are seeing is apparently better than what their cousins were seeing a while ago.
And for the vets who are frustrated with the perching BnZer's I had this happen yesterday, when after I had finished an extended low 1v1, a pony with 5k alt advantage and E advantage made repeated timid swoops on me. He was very careful to extend 1-2K and rebuild after each time I evaded, and it was VERY annoying. After I died (a lag death -- I lag rolled on my front end, lethal bullets hit while I was lining him up in FRONT of me!), I realised that while HE was timid, the real problem was that I wasn't efficient in killing him. If my lag rolls were better, if I was more aggressive, he would have been long dead.
In short, IF I CAN't KILL A LAMER, IT MEANS I'M AS DEFICIENT AS HE.
I find them to be annoying, but I was just making an observation. Yes I believe it is the influx of new players that has seen the rise in numbers of BNZ cherry dweebs, but there are many vets who very much enjoy this style of game play! I understand that the style is a stepping ladder for skills needed to be a good dogfighter, gunnery, E-mngment, a o a, but there are so many of them and they are so timid! lol!:aok
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Yeah, Know what you mean Sky.
I found that 1v1 after several flights in a zone where it was simply Insta-Death (tm) to get low. Position, swoop, turnfight for a rotation or two, get swooped on, evade, 2nd guy gets ya.
Wasnt much fun, so I went someplace else.
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And a side note: had 954 players in the arenas at peek time last night.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
And a side note: had 954 players in the arenas at peek time last night.
HiTech
What? There's "Voyeur's Arena"? How come nobody told me?
:rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Simaril
What? There's "Voyeur's Arena"? How come nobody told me?
:rofl :rofl
You get that along with the B-29 for an extra $2.95 a month.
Didn't they tell you?
:noid :noid
Bronk
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Originally posted by hitech
And a side note: had 954 players in the arenas at peek time last night.
HiTech
I saw close to 900 on when I logged in. Have you hit 1000 yet at any one particular time?:aok
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Not yet SkyRock.
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Originally posted by hitech
Not yet SkyRock.
once you hit that number, is there a "saturation" point you are looking at when there has to be a major upgrade or something to the servers, or arenas?
say 3500 logged in at one time?
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Not really Mustaine, we can just add more servers. And in the overall view of things servers are cheep. Only design limitation we have is a max of around 1000 per arena.
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Originally posted by Mustaine
once you hit that number, is there a "saturation" point you are looking at when there has to be a major upgrade or something to the servers, or arenas?
say 3500 logged in at one time?
Yes. Once he hits a consistent 3500 logged in at a time, he'll upgrade from his own RV-8 to his own P-51D.:t
I'd call that a major upgrade.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Yes. Once he hits a consistent 3500 logged in at a time, he'll upgrade from his own RV-8 to his own P-51D.:t
I'd call that a major upgrade.
lol, and why not! With the cannon package, I might add!:D
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Well...thats the clincher in nearly every case isn't it?
My dads cancer was "treatable"
He died a year later.
So the question is, is it treatable?
The answer is much different depending on which side of the fence you are on.
BTW..this is fun Dialouge. ;)
I in no way blame the Doctors/Medical field for my Dads death.
Neither would he.
But I bet they are glad they talked him into the treatment.
I know my Mother regrets it now.
BTW this is bordering getting way off topic and silly...Better end it now..
NB..was interesting.
My Mother-in-Law spent 10 years in and out of excruciating chemo-therapy for colon cancer. At the end of those 10 years, she died.
When her youngest son was diagnosed with cancer of the pancreas he told the doctors to take their treatment and shove it! He lived another,
10 years!
If I ever get that news I know what My choice will be.
[end hijack]
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Originally posted by hitech
Not really Mustaine, we can just add more servers. And in the overall view of things servers are cheep. Only design limitation we have is a max of around 1000 per arena.
WOOOHOOO
HUGE MAPS [/color][/size]
:aok :aok :aok :D :D :D :aok :aok :aok
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Yes. Once he hits a consistent 3500 logged in at a time, he'll upgrade from his own RV-8 to his own P-51D.:t
I'd call that a major upgrade.
I would never upgraide my RV to a p51d.
.
.
.
Now if we are talking a mans plane like the corsair thats a different story.
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When ya gonna get a(n) AT-28, HTC? Seen 'em online for less than 200 g's...
NORTH AMERICAN T28B $179,000 CA
S/N: 137764, N2207Y, 14863 TT, 282 SMOH, 282 SPOH, APX-72 TXP & NAA ICS Interphone, Darton Clean Kit, Clev W&B
C & J Sales
Phone: (800)828-3597
or (805)484-5840 Details & Photo(s)
Send a Message
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Originally posted by hitech
And a side note: had 954 players in the arenas at peek time last night.
HiTech
within totally unbalanced arenas
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Originally posted by 0verlag
within totally unbalanced arenas
and your point is ?
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Originally posted by SlapShot
and your point is ?
you've seen it every night as well.... so dont put your head in the sand and pretend it isnt a issue.
during the day the sides are balanced within 10 people.... and the gameplay is great. this is when there is 1LW arena, and mostly all players are within this arena.
However by the evening, sides can be out by as much as 80-100 people IN BOTH SERVERS. Add the numbers up cross the LW's and they are BALANCED. The rolling cap system needs to work by country numbers, not arena population.
If orange has 200:120:120 (R:B:K) rooks should only be allowed to join Blue etc. Surely thats simple?
it is also "strange" that we now have <440ish people on small maps, yet this is apparently this is healthy, vs 750 people on large maps? So we have MORE numbers per mile that we did on large maps? 440+ players on a small map is unhealthy, and that is made worse by the totally uneven sides.
How is that ment to be fun?
I dont want 750player arenas back... I was generally gone by those times anyway (4-6am). I just would like the relatively balanced sides, of 500 players on large maps.
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Originally posted by 0verlag
you've seen it every night as well.... so dont put your head in the sand and pretend it isnt a issue.
during the day the sides are balanced within 10 people.... and the gameplay is great. this is when there is 1LW arena, and mostly all players are within this arena.
However by the evening, sides can be out by as much as 80-100 people IN BOTH SERVERS. Add the numbers up cross the LW's and they are BALANCED. The rolling cap system needs to work by country numbers, not arena population.
If orange has 200:120:120 (R:B:K) rooks should only be allowed to join Blue etc. Surely thats simple?
it is also "strange" that we now have <440ish people on small maps, yet this is apparently this is healthy, vs 750 people on large maps? So we have MORE numbers per mile that we did on large maps? 440+ players on a small map is unhealthy, and that is made worse by the totally uneven sides.
How is that ment to be fun?
I dont want 750player arenas back... I was generally gone by those times anyway (4-6am). I just would like the relatively balanced sides, of 500 players on large maps.
Just wanted to make sure what you point was before going any further.
Lots of us (including you) on this BBS have already been thru the grinder on this and what came of it ?
HT implemented many changes trying to address this issue which cause much frothing of the mouths and gnashing of teeth which, eventually, lead to a retraction of the changes.
Now this is not to say that he has abandoned these changes ... maybe he is still working on more eloquent versions that will be implemented in the future ... time will tell.
Since the withdrawl of the balancing/capture changes, the balancing of the arenas have been left up to us ... what a good job we have been doing on own own ... eh ?
Things are MORE lopsided than ever and those who join an arena on the more populated side or leave an arena to join the more populated side in another arena are the cause of the problems and it is they who continue to exacerbate and pick at the open wound.
So we are back to where we were just a few weeks ago ... FUBAR.
So rather than your canned one-liner jabs, what solutions/ideas have you come up with within this time-frame of HT leaving us to our own on trying to balance arenas ?
... or
Are you asking HT to bring back the balancing code or implement some kind of new balancing schema ?
Cause from what I have seen ... we (the players) got part of what we wished for and FUBARed it up totally ... AGAIN.
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While the "WdB" (Whine Decibels) rating matters, I realized not long ago that there's another important factor in balancing.
Too much balancing means stagnation.
Seriously, think about it. Despite the bias of some, there really isnt a significant difference between countries' skill levels. As for style -- every country has seemed to say "No one works together, we have nothing but furballers...etc, etc" when I've flown with them.
We can pretty much expect that from a statistical standpoint there's an essentially even distibution of talent, play style, and aggressiveness. If there were always equal numbers, the arenas wouldnt even BE reset!
With too little imbalance, the capture guys would be enormously frustrated. With too much imbalance, everyone EXCEPT the die-hard landgrabbers would be unhappy.
And I can't think of a simple side balancing system that wouldn't risk threatening the basic social structure of the game, the squad.
HT has a veeeerry fine line to walk.
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Originally posted by hitech
.
.
.
Now if we are talking a mans plane like the corsair thats a different story.
WOOOOOOOOOT! :aok :D
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Originally posted by 0verlag
If orange has 200:120:120 (R:B:K) rooks should only be allowed to join Blue etc. Surely thats simple?
If I had written the above rather than Overlag, and apologies if I get it all wrong, I would be pointing out that for right now the institution of multiple arenas to create "healthy" gameplay isn't working if "healthy" equals balanced. Which I don't know that it does.
1000 players on a map large enough to accomodate them sounds like something I'd like to experience.
But I work in a grocery store, and have a long history of wanting to experience things which in hindsight were much better left alone.
All the Best,
hap
p.s. And since Slap Shot asked the question "well, what do you advise?" I'll offer my worthless free advice:
1) one arena or multiple arenas with no caps. let the customer decide where and when they want to play.
2) eny and perk multipliers to handicap the most numerous countries
3) large maps a la Trinity and Big Isles with 8 interesting, visually eyepoping, quasi historical, maps that have airfield locations named after towns, cities, and hamlets over which WW2 was fought.
4) inclusion of the B29 with no nukes, He111, B25, and any other plane and ground vehicle of which it could be legitimately claimed had a "major/important" role in WW2
5) a vox system that would work intra-arena on demand but not default.
6) unlimited squelch system
7) weather fronts of 5 min duration or so making things interesing espcially in lieu of "uncapturable airfields"
8) porkable fuel
9) strat porking at the manufacuring level that is achievable if properly coordinated and executed. Not a "theoretical" model that you never actually see.
Yup. I guess that covers it.