Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: morfiend on January 28, 2007, 02:20:50 PM
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The Eny restriction may be needed,BUT.... It can cripple 1 side and leave them all but defenceless.
Lastnite, a base was swarmed 7 to 10 enemy A/C, Eny was like 18. So even tho the base was heavily defended the defenders didnt stand a chance, result...frustration sets in and base is left undefended,some even quit,"saying this is :furious :furious :mad: :mad: ..."
So,while we may need eny limits,maybe it can be set to the ratio of players in a sector,or make a 4 sector box ,a quadrent, and adjust the ENY to that.
Seems to me the Idea of Aces High is to have fun and the Eny limiter is interfering with that.
Oh,BTW I did a search,nothing has been suggested or put forth about a sort of rolling Eny
Any others with ideas to solve this....:aok
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Originally posted by morfiend
Oh,BTW I did a search,nothing has been suggested or put forth about a sort of rolling Eny
Any others with ideas to solve this....:aok
didn't search enough obviously:
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150579&highlight=limit+AND+sector
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=163116&highlight=limit+AND+sector
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=163219&highlight=limit+AND+sector
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=187736&highlight=limit+AND+sector
read all those for a start :aok
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Problem isn't ENY restrictions, but plane ENY values, they are all over the place.
For example -
LW Arenas
1942 Hurri IIc = 10 (same as a Tiffy by the way)
1945 190-D9 = 20
Sorry thats just plain nonsense, and there are plenty other examples.
It's time ENY values were based purely on a planes performance and not used as a backdoor way to restrict popular planes. (which has partly led to this ENY value insanity)
A planes popularity has nothing to do with how well or bad it performs.
Neither should it be based on a perceived it's 'easier' to fly than another plane, 'easier' is not quantifyable in any way.
IMO also Ostwinds / 163s (HQ defence) / Panzers should ALWAYS be available.
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ENY sucks... plain and simple.
Why not just let us fly whatever we want? We have perk points to limit rides. Scrap it all together. Mid war is pathetic with ENY lately.
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Originally posted by morfiend
The Eny restriction may be needed,BUT.... It can cripple 1 side and leave them all but defenceless.
Lastnite, a base was swarmed 7 to 10 enemy A/C, Eny was like 18. So even tho the base was heavily defended the defenders didnt stand a chance
Defenders didnīt stand a chance? With a ENY of 18, you still have planes like La-5, Bf 109K & G14, C205, P38G & J & L , Spit IX and V. Add to that the huge numercial advantage one side has before gettin such an ENY restriction and you will find that you are FAR from being "defenseless"
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Originally posted by skernsk
ENY sucks... plain and simple.
Why not just let us fly whatever we want? We have perk points to limit rides. Scrap it all together. Mid war is pathetic with ENY lately.
I suppose you would want to fly "where" you want to fly next? :D
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I personally like the ENY system.
If it didn't exist I might not have ever gotten out of my Spit XVI. Now I fly anything and everything as my XVI only gets occasional rides and I'm now accumulating perks at a rate I couldn't have imagined flying only a Spit XVI.
There are a lot of good planes available with ENY over 20 and even over 30. You only felt defensless because you din't/don't know what the higher ENY planes are capable of nor what their strengths and weaknesses are.
Besides that, ENY was in effect because your country had a numbers advantage. It sounds like most were'nt interested in defending.
As far as rating by performance I agree somewhat but lethality would also have to be part of that equation. I just don't know how you could do it. Which perfomance catagory are you going to use? How do you evaluate T'n'B planes against B'n'Z planes, turning ability against climb rate, etc.? Maybe the best measure would be K/D for a given aircraft directly from the arena stats but it seems to me most of the perk planes are already at the top of that list.
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Originally posted by Lusche
Defenders didnīt stand a chance? With a ENY of 18, you still have planes like La-5, Bf 109K & G14, C205, P38G & J & L , Spit IX and V. Add to that the huge numercial advantage one side has before gettin such an ENY restriction and you will find that you are FAR from being "defenseless"
I duno I normally find at least on the Rook side when we are being hit hard by ENY.. Most of the times the in air numbers are close to what the Nit's have it's just we just have more guys in tower.
So even thought the guys actually fighting numbers are very close we get killed on ENY because of tower dwellers.
Early this mooring was prime example.. There was hardly anyone playing was only like 25-36 guys from each team in the air, but rook had total of 75 and 50 of them weren't in flight. So we were getting hit with ENY meanwhile we really didn't have any player advantage in the air.
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I dont think thats true. Ive been able to get a P51 up when we have an eny by waiting for ghi to post a mission. While everyone is in the tower the eny comes down.
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Originally posted by Chalenge
I dont think thats true. Ive been able to get a P51 up when we have an eny by waiting for ghi to post a mission. While everyone is in the tower the eny comes down.
Take a look at this topic..
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197224
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lol... ENY 18... Defenders didnt stand a chance... lol. Like widewing said, La-5, Bf-109K4, P-38, Spitfire IX & V, Fw-190s, Ostwinds, when ENY hits 30, then we will talk. Hell, ENY DID hit 30. What did I do? Flew a Bf-110 C-4b, Spitfire mk I, and Bf-109 E-4. ENY can be a b****, but there is always ONE plane you can still fly. Hell, havnt you heard of the P-40E?!?
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Any others with ideas to solve this
I've got a nutty solution. Quit insisting on being on the side with an overwhelming numbers advantage, and change sides.
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And for my usual reply on the subject of ENY........
Hitler, Yamamoto and Moussalini would have loved it.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I've got a nutty solution. Quit insisting on being on the side with an overwhelming numbers advantage, and change sides.
Heh, I insist on flying with my squad. When we log in and it makes the ENY go from normal to 25 or more... well I'm sorry I don't like it much. I do feel that as a paying customer I should get to fly what I want, when I want and where I want. Excluding perk rides which should be earned.
So hubs, try another solution. And its not what chess piece I fly for, I could give a flying **** what side I am on, but the squaddies are what matters. I aint trying to be difficult, but I do hate the ENY because flying a Hurricane IIc in Mid War is not my idea of a ride that needs to be restricted at ANY time.
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I agree. Hurricane ENY is bulls***. I understand the HO tendency, but that doesnt warant an ENY of 10. Its still so slow a C-47 could outrun it.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I've got a nutty solution. Quit insisting on being on the side with an overwhelming numbers advantage, and change sides.
Or go to the other LWA. Where I'm sure your chess piece doesn't have numbers.
That's just to scary for some hub.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
Or go to the other LWA. Where I'm sure your chess piece doesn't have numbers.
That's just to scary for some hub.
Bronk
A lot of us play during off peak times.. So the other LWA has hardly any players in it.
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Originally posted by Serenity
lLike widewing said, La-5, Bf-109K4, P-38, Spitfire IX & V, Fw-190s,
Widewing????? :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I've got a nutty solution. Quit insisting on being on the side with an overwhelming numbers advantage, and change sides.
Well incentives to change sides -
Perk multiplier - FAILED
ENY restrictions - FAILED
Queues - FAILED
Plus a few more I can't remember - FAILED
0 for (at least) 4
I'll go out a limb here - They DON'T want to change sides.
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Originally posted by skernsk
Heh, I insist on flying with my squad. When we log in and it makes the ENY go from normal to 25 or more... well I'm sorry I don't like it much. I do feel that as a paying customer I should get to fly what I want, when I want and where I want. Excluding perk rides which should be earned.
So hubs, try another solution. And its not what chess piece I fly for, I could give a flying **** what side I am on, but the squaddies are what matters. I aint trying to be difficult, but I do hate the ENY because flying a Hurricane IIc in Mid War is not my idea of a ride that needs to be restricted at ANY time.
..so because you and a bunch of your "buds" want to fly "fly what I want, when I want and where I want" the rest of the player base has to suck it up and eat your bigger numbers as well as fighting you in uber planes. Ya sounds like fun for the rest of us !
ENY works fine, it handycaps the country with the biggest numbers forcing them to work a bit harder to get the job done with infearior equipment.
So you still got a choice... suck it up and fly other planes, or suck it up and switch countries, or suck it up and switch arenas.
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ENY is the best were going to get,
without interfering with players TOO much,
so what you have to fly older planes, its fun, makes a change :p
Just be happy with ENY before we get que's and or even put in the country with less numbers without a choice.
someone HAS to WIN, deal with it
:noid:)
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Originally posted by Kev367th
I'll go out a limb here - They DON'T want to change sides.
So they will have to suffer some ENY restrictions. Sounds fine and fair to me. :)
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I've got a nutty solution. Quit insisting on being on the side with an overwhelming numbers advantage, and change sides.
:aok
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Originally posted by Lusche
Defenders didnīt stand a chance? With a ENY of 18, you still have planes like La-5, Bf 109K & G14, C205, P38G & J & L , Spit IX and V. Add to that the huge numercial advantage one side has before gettin such an ENY restriction and you will find that you are FAR from being "defenseless"
Don't forget the 1-hog!:aok
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Originally posted by Serenity
I agree. Hurricane ENY is bulls***. I understand the HO tendency, but that doesnt warant an ENY of 10. Its still so slow a C-47 could outrun it.
Only on extreme occasions do I ever see a hurricaine looking for a 1 vs 1 where it's speed would be a factor. Usually it's some guy who doesn't have good acm, so he jumps in the hurri and slowly makes his way to the cherry tree, on the way there he HO's everything within sight! :aok
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LOL, I had the missfortune of saying something along those line. Got picked up by LTARghst. I got ridiculed for not being a "t-n-b" flyer.
Ever try to "b-n-z" in a spit9?
Sorry, I won't turnfight a hurri. Schatzi abused me of that already.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Well incentives to change sides -
Perk multiplier - FAILED
ENY restrictions - FAILED
Queues - FAILED
Plus a few more I can't remember - FAILED
0 for (at least) 4
I'll go out a limb here - They DON'T want to change sides.
Yes ... whining on the BBS is MUCH EASIER ... ;)
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Don't forget the 1-hog!:aok
And the FM2 !!!
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Originally posted by SlapShot
And the FM2 !!!
Shhhh! FM2 is a secret!..:D
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Originally posted by GooseAW
Shhhh! FM2 is a secret!..:D
(http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/1662/doh4jw.gif)
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Originally posted by TexInVa
LOL, I had the missfortune of saying something along those line. Got picked up by LTARghst. I got ridiculed for not being a "t-n-b" flyer.
Ever try to "b-n-z" in a spit9?
Sorry, I won't turnfight a hurri. Schatzi abused me of that already.
LoL well to a Hurri 90% of the plane set would would appear to be BnZ.
Just because they are that slow.
Bronk
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ENY is fine but I think it should be capped at 15. Sometimes players from a country log when they start to lose and this prolongs a map reset as the other country starts to get a very high ENY. You can still fly decent to good rides with an ENY at 15, just not the best.
Venom
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Originally posted by a4944
ENY is fine but I think it should be capped at 15. Sometimes players from a country log when they start to lose and this prolongs a map reset as the other country starts to get a very high ENY. You can still fly decent to good rides with an ENY at 15, just not the best.
Venom
Good then its working. Thinning out horde monkeys is good thing.
I say make eny kick in harder and sooner. Keeps the win by volume guys down to a minimum.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Kev367th
I'll go out a limb here - They DON'T want to change sides.
So, because people want to be twits, we're obligated to accomodate them?
That's idiotic.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
So, because people want to be twits, we're obligated to accomodate them?
That's idiotic.
lol...
Are people not playing to your satisfaction?
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
..so because you and a bunch of your "buds" want to fly "fly what I want, when I want and where I want" the rest of the player base has to suck it up and eat your bigger numbers as well as fighting you in uber planes. Ya sounds like fun for the rest of us !
Well Fugitive, I am many like me fly this game for the squad aspect of it. I dunno why, but when you do find a squad it makes the game 100 times more fun.
Until the recent changes in the last 6 months I had absolutely no problems. So, I guess I am suffering along with my squad to make lone wolf whiners like you happy.
What is so wrong with paying your subscription and expecting to be able to play the fugging game? I see no problem with being upset that I have 5 planes to choose from at PEAK times on Friday nights in the Mid-War arena.
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One more thing 'Fugitive'
There are members of my squad that for some reason or another cannot get Vox to function in the Late War arenas. This is a problem that HTC is aware of and to date we are still problem solving it. So to ensure we get to fly together we go early war or mid-war.
Can you please tell me what the 'UBER' rides are in those theaters? Why it is necessary to allow one side the entire planeset available in Mid-War while my side has to fly an A20?
Explain to me please why I am such an ******* for expecting my 15 bucks to allow me to fly my Favorite rides (F6f or Hurrican IIc) when I want to, on the same side as my friends and squad mates.
Thanks in advance.....
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
So, because people want to be twits, we're obligated to accomodate them?
That's idiotic.
o yes your majesty........
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
So, because people want to be twits, we're obligated to accomodate them?
That's idiotic.
If you look at my first post I say I have no problem with the idea of ENY restrictions, the problem lies in the planes ENY values, they are to say the least all over the place.
Well as it seems like the majority don't want to change sides I guess it's them who are accomodating you.
Unless of course you feel your little minority are more important than every other player in the game.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Good then its working. Thinning out horde monkeys is good thing.
I say make eny kick in harder and sooner. Keeps the win by volume guys down to a minimum.
Bronk
Yes win by volume...This was a picture from last night at a off peak time.
(http://www.pixelsplat.com/temp/eny.jpg)
Now granted the rooks in flight were 10 more than the Knights but the not in flight players was consistent at about 50 which was causing our eny to be over 15 any many points.
So I don't mind the ENY but I think it should be done by location rather than by the whole map. The nits were kicking our butts at that area, because they had the numbers on us and we were screwed with crappy planes most of the time.
Meanwhile "most" of the rooks were over at some other base ganging up on Bish. So I don't mind the ENY so much but make it dependent on the conditions of that part of the map as was suggested above by someone else.
That or auto kick AFK players after 10 mins or something.
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Well as it seems like the majority don't want to change sides
Right ... most would rather piss and moan about ENY.
I guess it's them who are accomodating you.
How do you figure ? ... they still have the choice to fly with the over-populated side ... they just have to do it with a limited plane set. They are accommodating themselves if you really think about it.
Unless of course you feel your little minority are more important than every other player in the game.
Those who choose to change sides to try and balance arenas are truly a minority, but I doubt most feel they are more important than every other player in the game ... they may feel that they contribute more, but I doubt "importance" enters their mind.
Now, with all of that, I do have to agree with you that the ENY settings do need to be looked at more deeply and reset accordingly for the arena and the offered plane set within the arena.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Now, with all of that, I do have to agree with you that the ENY settings do need to be looked at more deeply and reset accordingly for the arena and the offered plane set within the arena. [/B]
So what would they be based on?
I thought for a long time maybe performance, gun package etc.
But that doesn't tell you how well it does in the arenas.
So
Why not base it on its K/D ratio, that would seem as good a measure as any for a planes effectiveness in the arenas.
Basically (assuming HT has data for individual arenas)
Sort them top to bottom highest, K/D to lowest K/D
ENY values of 5,10,15,20,25,30
Split them into 6 equal numbered groups.
Assign ENY value to each group.
Any plane with K/D better than 2.0-2.5 retains or is given a perk value also.
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Slapshot to say it needs tweaking is indeed a start.
What is important for me is to fly with my squad. If we change sides then .. the ENY switches along with us. To be so limited by the ENY in a sense penalizes squads (larger ones like mine anyway).
If not for my squad I would have been done here long ago, but its the friends I have made here, rather than the game (the past two years anyway) that have kept me paying.
I think a two sided war makes the most sense, but I am sure that has been brought up and rejected for one reason or another.
All I know is that I don't see the need for it, nor do I like ENY as it is now. A mid-war arena has only mid-war planes available. Which ones in that arena are 'Uber'? And why not just perk them rather than force a side to fly goons and A20's?
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Just tried my idea with last months stats.
Bear in mind the stats are for all arenas so it throws up anomalies like the Hurri IIc, P-38J etc.
I would hope HT has stats for indivdual arenas.
ENY 5 (* = perked)
Me 262 *
Tempest *
Me 163B *
F4U-1C *
F4U-4 *
Hurricane Mk IIC
P-47-D25
Ki-84-Ia
Typhoon IB
F4U-1A
Fw 190D-9
P-38J
ENY 10
Bf 109K-4
Ta 152H
Fw 190A-8
N1K2
P-47D-11
Fw 190A-5
Ki-61
P-38G
Spitfire Mk XIV
La-7
Il-2
F4U-1
ENY 15
C.205
Spitfire Mk IX
La-5FN
Bf 109F-4
FM2
Bf 109G-14
Spitfire Mk XVI
Bf 109G-2
P-51D
Yak-9U
P-47N
Yak-9T
ENY 20
A6M5b
P-47-D40
P-51B
SeaFire
F6F-5
F4F-4
Mosquito Mk VI
Fw 190F-8
Spitfire Mk VIII
Bf 110G-2
Bf 109G-6
P-40E
ENY 25
F4U-1D
P-38L
A-20G
Spitfire Mk V
M-16
C.202
A6M2
Ar 234
Bf 110C-4b
Bf 109E-4
Hurricane Mk I
Hurricane Mk IID
ENY 30
B-24J
B-26B
Ju 87D-3
B-17G
LVTA4
LVTA2
Lancaster III
P-40B
Spitfire Mk I
Ki-67
B5N2
TBM-3
D3A1
SBD-5
Ju 88
Boston III
Again please BEAR IN MIND -
These are based on ALL ARENA stats, it would have to be done on an individual arena basis.
Thats why there are anomalies like the P-38J and Hurri IIc and Spit VIII, some of these do better in arenas other than the the LW.
Without access to individual arena stats, it's not possible to get a truly accurate picture.
I would expect the Hurri IIc and P-38J to drop out of the ENY 5 group and they would be replaced by the K-4 and Ta-152 (top two in ENY 10).
You could even do the buffs seperately.
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But your idea assumes that KPD correlates directly with a plane's quality. And that would be an invalid assumption.
Think about a plane like the FM-2. Lets say, just for the sake of argument, that only 10% of sorties was by newbs -- and the aces who love to dogfight make up the difference. The KPD that results would be HEAVILY skewed by player skill -- and while it would still likely end up with a mediocre number, that number would be MUCH MUCH better than the plane deserved..
So now it gets a lower ENY. It gets filtered out for the high side, and a certain number of aces can't fly it. The KPD drops....do we recalculate?
Or lets look at the argument the other way. Take a great plane flown poorly by newbs. Should it be available to the aces on the high side, when the FM2s of the world are denied?
Come to think of it, look at YOUR numbers!! The "NPE" (newbie pilot effect) clearly has pushed the La-1 and the SPit XVI into almost silly ENY ratings. Can you honestly say, with all the "perk the XVI and La7" threads, that your system is better than HTs?
I dont buy it at all -- since its based on a faulty assumption its conclusions can't be trusted.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
ENY 15
Spitfire Mk XVI
Kev, I love you, I really do, but NO NEIN NEVER. Spitfire XVI should be in the ENY=5 group. Everything else other then the Hurricane (But as you said, those are anomolies) I agree with, but the Spitfire XVI is just ridiculous.
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Oh, and sorry Lusche, by the time I had posted I couldnt remember the name, I just remembered it was a black and white icon and the first that comes to mind with black and white is Widewing. My apologies, I hope you can forgive me.
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Originally posted by Simaril
But your idea assumes that KPD correlates directly with a plane's quality. And that would be an invalid assumption.
Think about a plane like the FM-2. Lets say, just for the sake of argument, that only 10% of sorties was by newbs -- and the aces who love to dogfight make up the difference. The KPD that results would be HEAVILY skewed by player skill -- and while it would still likely end up with a mediocre number, that number would be MUCH MUCH better than the plane deserved..
So now it gets a lower ENY. It gets filtered out for the high side, and a certain number of aces can't fly it. The KPD drops....do we recalculate?
Or lets look at the argument the other way. Take a great plane flown poorly by newbs. Should it be available to the aces on the high side, when the FM2s of the world are denied?
Come to think of it, look at YOUR numbers!! The "NPE" (newbie pilot effect) clearly has pushed the La-1 and the SPit XVI into almost silly ENY ratings. Can you honestly say, with all the "perk the XVI and La7" threads, that your system is better than HTs?
I dont buy it at all -- since its based on a faulty assumption its conclusions can't be trusted.
Barring anything else to base ENY values on, a planes K/D in the INDIVIDUAL arenas should be a reasonable gauge of how successful (effective) it is.
Like I said a planes use or underuse should have nothing to do with it's ENY value, as ENY it is currently being use to limit planes, it makes sense to base it on a planes success in the arenas, not its use.
Under the current 'system' if the Spit I suddenly jumped way up in popularity it could get a silly ENY value also.
I would hazard a guess that if individual arena stats were available, the top ENY group (ENY 5) in my idea would most likely contain the latest planes available in that arena, which if you think about it makes sense.
As they developed through the war planes got better performance and became more and more effective.
Yes it be recalculated as and when was seen fit.
If you look through the tours the basic position of any aircraft in the K/D ratio doesn't change that much.
Anyone know if individual arena stats are available?
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Well as it seems like the majority don't want to change sides
Right ... most would rather piss and moan about ENY.
I guess it's them who are accomodating you.
How do you figure ? ... they still have the choice to fly with the over-populated side ... they just have to do it with a limited plane set. They are accommodating themselves if you really think about it.
Unless of course you feel your little minority are more important than every other player in the game.
Those who choose to change sides to try and balance arenas are truly a minority, but I doubt most feel they are more important than every other player in the game ... they may feel that they contribute more, but I doubt "importance" enters their mind.
Now, with all of that, I do have to agree with you that the ENY settings do need to be looked at more deeply and reset accordingly for the arena and the offered plane set within the arena.
So in the example I posted above from last night.. I could have switched to two sides.. I could go switch to the Nits whom were already out nubering the Rooks in that area of the map and map it even worse.
Or I could have jumped on the Bish and fought at even a worse dis- advantage. The ENY might work not so bad at peak times, but something needs to be done for sure in the off peak hours.
Personally I don't see why something biased on sections of the map wouldn't work.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
As far as rating by performance I agree somewhat but lethality would also have to be part of that equation. I just don't know how you could do it. Which perfomance catagory are you going to use? How do you evaluate T'n'B planes against B'n'Z planes, turning ability against climb rate, etc.? Maybe the best measure would be K/D for a given aircraft directly from the arena stats but it seems to me most of the perk planes are already at the top of that list.
I find it amusing how this became Kev367's idea. Look way up at the top of this thread.
I was thinking about this further last night and whoever said it above is right in that player skill has a lot to do with some of these K/D stats although, while it may take some programming, a player skill adustment could be made using pilot stats in conjunction with overall plane stats.
A simple formula might be overall plane K/D / average pilot K/D = Relative ENY. This rates the planes top to bottom from which ENY could be applied. The most accurate time to do this would be at the end of each camp. The programming difficulty would only come into play if HT doesn't already keep the data on which planes each of us have flown but my guess is they do as some of it is in your expanded stats already.
I also see no reason to keep ENY's in 5 point increments. Range them possibly from 5 to 30 or whatever numbers you want but let them fall where they will. You'de have planes at 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, etc.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
I find it amusing how this became Kev367's idea. Look way up at the top of this thread.
Didn't read the links, was only putting forward an idea, and yes there is no need to keep the 5 step increments.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Barring anything else to base ENY values on, a planes K/D in the INDIVIDUAL arenas should be a reasonable gauge of how successful (effective) it is.
Like I said a planes use or underuse should have nothing to do with it's ENY value, as ENY it is currently being use to limit planes, it makes sense to base it on a planes success in the arenas, not its use.
Under the current 'system' if the Spit I suddenly jumped way up in popularity it could get a silly ENY value also.
I would hazard a guess that if individual arena stats were available, the top ENY group (ENY 5) in my idea would most likely contain the latest planes available in that arena, which if you think about it makes sense.
As they developed through the war planes got better performance and became more and more effective.
Yes it be recalculated as and when was seen fit.
If you look through the tours the basic position of any aircraft in the K/D ratio doesn't change that much.
Anyone know if individual arena stats are available?
But planes like the Spixteen lose their K/D because all the n00bs whod rather auger than land fly them. It doesnt mean they are any less effective. There need to be exceptions such as the Spixteen and the La-7.
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Originally posted by Serenity
But planes like the Spixteen lose their K/D because all the n00bs whod rather auger than land fly them. It doesnt mean they are any less effective. There need to be exceptions such as the Spixteen and the La-7.
Then we get well an exception needs to be for this plane also, oh and this one, and this one etc etc.
Then we end up back exactly were we started, planes with ENY values that mean nothing at all.
I ditch all the time if I see an incoming NOE mission or HQ mission just to get up and intercept it. Hurts the Tiffys overall K/D, that mean an exception should be made to that also?.
Or with the amount of ditching buffs I see now, they need to be made exceptions also?
You can see where it leads.
After a couple of tours with some tweaking at the end of each one you would end up with IMO a fairly good set of ENY values.
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Wow...I opened a can of worms here:noid
I guess I should have mentioned it was MWA , so no K4 ect. and ya we weren't totally defenceless just out numbered and out planed.:mad:
Really it was supposed to be about a sector ENY,or 4 sectors or whatever.
even though our side had superiour numbers they were nowhere near the area,and the few that defended this base just gave up because of the eny.
I had hoped for some constructive input but as usual it turned into a P1$$ing contest.
BTW guess I shoulda seached {eny,sector}.. but thx for the links...........
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Heh, morfiend MWA and EWA are porked because of ENY and your post got me pretty upset thinking about the last squad nite we had there. Luckily we found a plane that we could sort of fight with but it got me to wondering why I can't fly any Mid War plane besides a perk plane.
It is a sore point with me and has been since the start. As I posted previously HTC has made many changes in the past that, at first glance, seemed crazy. In the end they were great changes and helped grow the game.
In this case I still haven't found the silver lining ..... and I am taking the time to let HTC know it. Flame me if you want, but it really don't change the fact that ENY needs some warranty work.
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yup Skernsk ur right.......:aok
Finally someone is sticking to the subject:o :o
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Then base ENY on what it SHOULD be based on, planes ability. K/D has nothing to do with it. You wanna see me bring the F4U1C's K/D down? I have some extra points, I will spend every singel one on augering a C-hog, just to make it cheaper. The point being K/D has NOTHING to do with what a plane can do if people can simply auger.
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I can't imagine there is any way to base ENY on area or base. If your country has numbers but are outnumbered in a given area, that's your problem to be quite frank. Rally the troops, counter attack, whatever. Your countrymen could come to your aide at any moment and even out or swing the numbers in your favor.
I agree that the ENY values are way out of line and that single point increments would seem to be best so that you don't suddenly lose access to 6 planes with a 1 ENY point increase, say from 9 ENY to 10 ENY. These Ideas have great merit and I hope HTC will take action on them.
My 2 cents. But then again I'm a twit who won't jump sides when hubsy thinks I should. :rofl
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Originally posted by Serenity
Then base ENY on what it SHOULD be based on, planes ability. K/D has nothing to do with it. You wanna see me bring the F4U1C's K/D down? I have some extra points, I will spend every singel one on augering a C-hog, just to make it cheaper. The point being K/D has NOTHING to do with what a plane can do if people can simply auger.
Yes you could do that, but looking at previous tours it would show up as an anomoly.
All the perk planes (apart from the Spit 14) always enjoy a better than 2.2/2.3 K/D.
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Yeah, why should the other paying customers have the same opportunities on a level playing field if a horde of vets doesn't want them to?
That's what amazes me most about you guys and your bull**** country loyalty nonsense. Is it really that important for you to have multiple, pronounced advantages in a cartoon airplane game? Would it really be the end of the world if you didn't?
ENY should be punitive. A horde of spit8s or a horde of spit 16s, what's the difference, really? Make ENY start at 5, and increase by whole numbers at a faster rate than it increments by tenths of a point at present.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Yeah, why should the other paying customers have the same opportunities on a level playing field if a horde of vets doesn't want them to?
That's what amazes me most about you guys and your bull**** country loyalty nonsense. Is it really that important for you to have multiple, pronounced advantages in a cartoon airplane game? Would it really be the end of the world if you didn't?
ENY should be punitive. A horde of spit8s or a horde of spit 16s, what's the difference, really? Make ENY start at 5, and increase by whole numbers at a faster rate than it increments by tenths of a point at present.
Geez hub calm down.
If you read most of the posts we are actually now discussing the ENY values, which are currently messed up.
I personally have no problem with the ENY restrictions, its the totally haphazard ENY values I have a problem with.
Unless of course you think a Hurri IIc is worth an ENY of 10 (equal to a Tiffy incidently) in LW, and thats just one example.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
That's what amazes me most about you guys and your bull**** country loyalty nonsense.
It's the same thing as the loyalty you give your favorite sports team.
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Just make a 4th country for the 2 week guys, can we call them feeder fish?
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I disagree on the sports fan analogy - I've got money on those games, so that's just like being a shareholder. :)
Using the "I've been a XXXX since I started" rationale (or the XXXXs are more organized, or all the XXXX are stupid kids, or whatever canned reply) as an excuse for creating, perpetuating, or increasing a pronounced advantage in numbers just doesn't cut it with me. It's a game, so why wouldn't you want it to be fair and balanced for everyone?
Starting to drift off topic, but the root cause here isn't ENY restrictions, or ENY values for the A/C. It's the players who insist on creating the disparity in numbers. The only way for ENY to work is prevent people from access to anything competitive in a particular arena. The only way to manage that is to make the ENY restriction higher, faster, and disable just about everything. I don't think HT really wants whining on that large a scale, but (since I don't have to answer his phone or deal with his email ;) ), I'd like to see a more restrictive setup tried at least once.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
It's a game, so why wouldn't you want it to be fair and balanced for everyone?
Because that would be boring - I love being outnumbered. Which arena I fly in is mostly determined by the question: In which one are the Knights outnumbered? ;)
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I disagree on the sports fan analogy - I've got money on those games, so that's just like being a shareholder. :)
Using the "I've been a XXXX since I started" rationale (or the XXXXs are more organized, or all the XXXX are stupid kids, or whatever canned reply) as an excuse for creating, perpetuating, or increasing a pronounced advantage in numbers just doesn't cut it with me. It's a game, so why wouldn't you want it to be fair and balanced for everyone?
I'm glad you've aquired those amazing mind reading abilities.
Unfortunatly, they're still wrong. Change the batteries lately?
Where and to whom I post my loyalties is none of your concern, nor should you allow yourself to think that you're superior enough to tell me if I should have them or not.
Like you said, this is a game. I have a loyalty that you can't seem to understand. I find that sad, but only when I think about it, and the only time I think about it is when you start frothing because of it.
You don't like it? Tough. Live with it. It's not going to change and you're just going to blow a vessel freaking about it.
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Real loyalty I can understand. Using some proclaimed sense of loyalty to a cartoon airplane icon in a video game, in order to enjoy a pronounced advantage in that game, I cannot. Perhaps I just hold myself to higher standards than you do.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Real loyalty I can understand. Using some proclaimed sense of loyalty to a cartoon airplane icon in a video game, in order to enjoy a pronounced advantage in that game, I cannot. Perhaps I just hold myself to higher standards than you do.
Really? because you make an assumption and believe in it? That's a higher standard?
Oh, and just to prove my point, you've assumed this was about me.
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My statements apply to everyone who insists that they should be able to fly whatever they want without any limitations, despite the tremendous numerical advantage they enjoy. While you may have been the first to get your skirt in a bunch, I am not referring to you singularly. I thought I made that clear in my earlier posts. Sorry if that confused you.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Real loyalty I can understand. Using some proclaimed sense of loyalty to a cartoon airplane icon in a video game, in order to enjoy a pronounced advantage in that game, I cannot. Perhaps I just hold myself to higher standards than you do.
I was always a AZ in AW and have always been a Bish in AH. Believe me there have been YEARS where we DID NOT have numeric superiority or a "pronounced avantage" in your terms so there goes that argument.
Numbers come and go. If you stay where you are it will eventually turn the other way.
Beyond that, I usually avoid the "pronounced superiority" and go fight where I'm outnumbered.
Somehow I'm missing where thats a lower standard just because I don't jump countries every day.
Besides, I like being a green guy :)
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
My statements apply to everyone who insists that they should be able to fly whatever they want without any limitations, despite the tremendous numerical advantage they enjoy. While you may have been the first to get your skirt in a bunch, I am not referring to you singularly. I thought I made that clear in my earlier posts. Sorry if that confused you.
M'kay, maybe we should slow this down and actually talk, then.
I don't like the way you enter a thread and bandy your opinion around like it's god's knowledge and everybody else is wrong.
I don't like being told by someone who really doesn't have a clue what my motives are.
I don't like listening to people being called wrong because someone else thinks so. The way you do it just smacks of how the religious right gets things done, through guilt and belittlement. That, more than anything you do, is what gets my "skirts in a bunch".
This is wikipedias take on loyalty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalty). This is very simplified, from my point of view, but does convey the basics. Maybe you and I have a different definition of loyalty?
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Starting to drift off topic, but the root cause here isn't ENY restrictions, or ENY values for the A/C. It's the players who insist on creating the disparity in numbers. The only way for ENY to work is prevent people from access to anything competitive in a particular arena. The only way to manage that is to make the ENY restriction higher, faster, and disable just about everything. I don't think HT really wants whining on that large a scale, but (since I don't have to answer his phone or deal with his email ), I'd like to see a more restrictive setup tried at least once.
I disagree. The numbers fluctuate on a regular bases. Most of the time I'm on, it's the rooks that are shorthanded. Sometimes it's the knights, but mostly rooks. I spend most of my time flying for rooks and defending against the bishops, who are defending from the knights, who are defending from the rooks, who are defending from the bishops.... Every now and again the wheel changes direction. I don't see it as a numbers disparity but as more of a "path of least resistance" style of play.
ENY usually won't affect me in my choice of spitfires. Actually, I've only seen ENY affect the country I'm currently fighting for twice. When that happens, I'll go to an earlier arena. But I'll agree on a stricter ENY. Maybe it'll slow the bishops on their quest for world domination. But along with a higher ENY, maybe more of the "core bases" can be un-capturable? Change the capture system to 80%/30%/30% and make 25% of the fields un-capturable. That will stop the hammering and force the horde to turn around every now and again.
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skinny,
you have to excuse hub he is currently being used by a top secret research facility as the test product for a new personal hygiene device intended to replace toilet paper, thus explaining his foul smelling attitude and his matted hairdo.
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I figure I rub people the wrong way at times. You would think that after almost 40 yrs, I would have learned tact. This is what gets me into about half of the arguments I find myself in.
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You're simply taking what I've said far too personally. My opinion is simply that- my opinion. I don't get that upset over the game, or anything said on the bbs. This isn't real life, no one gets hurt. I happen to think gameplay is more important than some make-believe patriotism to a make believe country. You disagree. So what?
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
You're simply taking what I've said far too personally. My opinion is simply that- my opinion. I don't get that upset over the game, or anything said on the bbs. This isn't real life, no one gets hurt. I happen to think gameplay is more important than some make-believe patriotism to a make believe country. You disagree. So what?
You know, that's not true. I responded to you getting upset about something that I disagree with. You came across as insulting. You pretty much said something was BS because you didn't understand it. I took what I saw as the most derogatory thing I've seen you post and tried to actually help you see it from a different perspective. And you continued being insulting and added superior to your repertoire. So I got mad at you. I don't take being insulted lightly. Throughout all of this, you were basing your "opinions" on assumptions that, as far as I can tell, are based on your lack of understanding of "loyalty". OK, so I tried to take this into yet another direction and tried to find out if maybe your definition of loyalty and mine are that different.
I get insulted again.
Damn skippy I'm taking this far too personally.
It's not an allegiance to the chesspiece (not real), but to the people (whom are real) who fly for that chesspiece, any more than your allegiance is to the lines drawn on a map, but the spirit of the country you reside in.
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Hub, I am always a Knight nowadays. I just follow my commanding officers. You wanna see me go somewhere else? Take it up with nonsense or KgBastrd. I just do what im told ;)
I think one big issue it the decimals. There is NOTHING more frustrating than your plane being ruled out because of a .1 eny. such as 20.1 ruling out your Spitfire and Bf-109G-14... THAT is frustrating.