Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Mustaine on January 29, 2007, 12:08:57 AM
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this is probably THE most absurd suggestion in the history of the game... but what the Hell...
I was explaining to a good buddy of mine what has been going on in the HTC community lately. He has been following with interest my "flight siim" career for a while now, and would LOVE to play this game we have so much fun at, but his wife will NEVER let him pay to play an online game EVER>...
point being we were talking about HO's and newbies, and all that jazz... and he said
Why don;t they make an Only Veterans Arena
:O
I have been around the community for over 5 years now (AGAIN for those who don't know I was JB73 in the past... anyway, I have never seen or heard of something like this brought up before.
Immediately I said "how do you be a veteran?" he said "points" we talked and he saw how points don;t work. he said "hours logged online" I explained how there are 15 year Vets who sometimes only log 10 hours in a month.
the ONLY thing we could come up with is HTC record data.
now this is not something they will ever give out, but they must have a database of old names registered, in fact I know they do. when I recently re-joined I had to prove I was the old "Mustaine" to get my name back.
some of us "Vets" go back 5 years. many 10 - 15 years.
here's the absolute CRAZY part.... what about an arena where only people playing AH for more than 3+ (or 4) years can go in?
it is the old vets that want and enjoy the "furball" arena anyway...
in a weird way it may entice a player to stay a subscriber longer.
say for example a requirement for access to the arena is 20 tours with logged time in, under various CIPD's as long as it is proven you are the same person.
in said arena, some of the "normal" MA map rules could be a bit different. bases a bit closer, strat much higher to attack, country change limit to 0 like the DA, possibly bombers disabled.... so on and so forth.
Like I said right off this has got to be the most ABSURD suggestion, but it is something I have never seen even talked about, so let's talk about it :aok
one last thing... I KNOW this could be a logistical nightmare for HTC... sorry, but thats the way it is. there is NO automatic inclusion to said arena, you must call them directly long distance, paying your own way, and PROVE you are someone who has been around that long of a time. I'd hope it wouldn't be more than a matter of keystrokes for Carrie or whomever happens to answer to see who you really are, say a CC validation, heck maybe a 1 time processing fee of $20 to offset the difficulties.
If you decide you must "change your name" $5 to keep access to the veterans arena.
I don;t think for a second the old hands would hesitate for a second to pay that extra sum for the good old furballs ;)
sorry LAST EDIT, the last trick is this arena could never have a CAP to hold paying vet's out.
LAST one I swear... we all know there are a ton of vets on ALL the time... and if there's worry about "all" the vets leaving the newbie flock untrained think of this, yes there will be some who go in there with only 10 players or whatever, but the majority I think will hold off until there is a larger number in there.
also there are a lot of vets ingrained into the game who enjoy helping new players out (I know I have done my share trust me) so I don't think this would be a "mass exodus" of all vets from the current main arenas, but a gradual increase of the "furrballers" in there over time... both in the long run, and over the course of a day (as far as arena numbers go)
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Mustaine, I think that this would indicate that the community is split, and it would be almost a rub-your-nose-in-it to newer players.
It would be setting up an "elite" arena, and when it became common knowledge, and known to everyone who had been playing this game for a week, I could see it having the effect of alienating, and eventually driving away, some of the other players. Or worse. It would have the potential of creating a monster( or monsters, as it were) in the other arena's, leaving the "vets" trying to hold on to the last vestiges of the game's original ideals in the 20 tours only arena.
IMHO, We need to have the vets circulating among the newbs, just for the sake of trying to maintain what we currently have.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
...leaving the "vets" trying to hold on to the last vestiges of the game's original ideals in the 20 tours only arena.
IMHO, We need to have the vets circulating among the newbs, just for the sake of trying to maintain what we currently have.
that's part of the problem I see personally. the vets signing off in droves, annoyed by the "newbies" and the lack of discipline in learning the art of dogfighting.
personally I would not log into the "vet's" arena unless the numbers were in the 75+ range at an absolute minimum. others would have their own thresholds, but id really don;t think it would suck "all" of the vets out of the main arenas.
agree to disagree ;)
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I don't know about everyone else, but I wonder if the wife who "...will NEVER let him pay to play an online game EVER>..." knows that he's out there having ideas on his own? :D
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
It would be setting up an "elite" arena
oh cod.. have you seen how some of these vets play? There is nothing "elite" about them at all :D
:p
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True, Nilsen-But it's not the abilities(or lack thereof) that would be the problem, it's the mindset it would instill.
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ummm, what an interesting idea!!
Looks like kind of a segregation idea to me, YOU the elite of the game!!
Sorry for the lack of discipline wich will not restrain me to shoot you down !
regards to your friend.
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Originally posted by Mustaine
that's part of the problem I see personally. the vets signing off in droves, annoyed by the "newbies" and the lack of discipline in learning the art of dogfighting.
personally I would not log into the "vet's" arena unless the numbers were in the 75+ range at an absolute minimum. others would have their own thresholds, but id really don;t think it would suck "all" of the vets out of the main arenas.
agree to disagree ;)
have said it before, would be solved if we had a game 'tutorial' and lil thing about game 'eticate'
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a man whose "wife would not allow him"?
regarding your idea. people need to be able to roll with the punches. everything in the universe is in a state of flux, the only constant is change and change is always for the better.
anyone who truly wants an all out nothing but furball fight can get that by either logging on to the DA and simply waiting for a like minded players to arrive or set up a pre appointed rendevous.
I'll add that in the Allied vs Axis arena you will find exactly what you are looking for with certain conditions. you may not always find your preferred ride but often you will find a willing opponent that will give you your $14.95's worth for that month.
I suggest to any "vet" truly looking for a fight to log onto the AvA and even if the arena is empty with fifteen minutes you will have your fights.
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I disagree with the assumption that it's a "vet vs. newb" issue anyway.
It's a gameplay style issue. We "vets" have typically become entrenched in our style and I know of many vets that have no desire to furball and much prefer to fly there buffs, escorted by squaddies, to an nme base and try to capture it or just find satisfaction in getting to the target and hitting it.
I came from AW and can't even force myself to take a pure HO shot in KOTH where it is openly acceptable supposedly. There are other "vets" that will take it everytime!
All this to say the dividing line is not vets/newbs...IMO
Maybe if the vets find a way to promote the value of the fight instead of the kill we can better gameplay from our perspective. Heck, I really don't know....
{S} for thinking out of the box! But it ain't ever gonna be what we loved about the "Ole Days".
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Originally posted by Mustaine
it is the old vets that want and enjoy the "furball" arena anyway...
it's not just the old vets who prefer furballing over playing the strat game.
personally I would not log into the "vet's" arena unless the numbers were in the 75+ range at an absolute minimum
if it was an actual furball arena, say a FT island surrounded by nuttin' but water, you wouldn't need a lot of numbers, IMHO...
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Originally posted by storch
I suggest to any "vet" truly looking for a fight to log onto the AvA and even if the arena is empty with fifteen minutes you will have your fights.
:aok
AvA, the red headed stepchild of AH.
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Make a blackout/redout arena and hvy buffeting that has a lower % of HO hits vs an arena that does not.
any1 heard of this before?
:D
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The ho is legit its just that in a game theres no true aspect of life and death to be a countermeasure against it. Watch the history channel and read books it was used quite a bit. The thing that bugs me is newbs that dont break and down you go.
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I think just making the "newbs" do 5 hours in TA before you can even click on the MA would do a world of good. I don't mind helping new guys out but it's those that don't even make an effort to learn anything about the game before they log into the MA that chap my ***.
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I've been flying online since 1994.
I still suck.
Does it make me a veteran, you betcha, does it make me a more skilled pilot, heck no.
I can only fly one plane well.
I personally think the all skill levels grouping of the MA makes it more realistic.
In WWII how many fighter pilots had as much stick time as the average AH pilot that has been on a couple of years?
Almost none....
I rather see an experimental aricraft MA.
Rockdog
a.k.a. Raji
a.k.a. Hayduke
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I came from AW and can't even force myself to take a pure HO shot in KOTH where it is openly acceptable supposedly. There are other "vets" that will take it everytime!
I know what you mean , i have been killed more times trying to avoid a HO just because i'm hoping that the other guy won't take it , just to find out that he lets loose after it's too late for me to avoid . I just cant take that shot and never have been able to.
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I'd love to see the game have a skillz test before an account is capable of entering any of the MA's. The skillz test would take place in the TA- and youd have to be able to pass the test to open access to the MAs. That way any returning players or quick learners wouldnt have to wait for a specified time to pass, if they gots the skillz- they can access the killz.
I imagine a "Vets Arena" would be very under utilized like so many others we already have.
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Anybody who cant avoid and turn the tables on a HO is a noob no matter how many years he has been flying.
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Originally posted by Bucky73
I think just making the "newbs" do 5 hours in TA before you can even click on the MA would do a world of good. I don't mind helping new guys out but it's those that don't even make an effort to learn anything about the game before they log into the MA that chap my ***.
speaking as a noob I wouldn't have minded that a bit
Mustaine it's an interesting idea even if I wouldn't be allowed in there for a while for thinking outside the box. I'll be watching this thread with interest.
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Ho's, rams, suicide bombing, 4 engined dive bombers, hording, porking, tool shedding, and creating a general nuisance. Thats what it always boils down to. Vet or newbie. Grandpa or pre-pubescent. Makes no difference.
You can eny them, side limit them, squelch them, ignore them. They will still be there.
If you went through the effort to keep track of how many times a player did this (another set of programming for score) you could set a limiter that prevented the high scorers from entering an "elite" arena but then again someone would be on good behavior for a time then say "what the heck" and take the ding in the "elite" arena. Out they go but the ram still happened.
Your only near term solution to the nuisance is 1000 arenas for two people with near to the same philosophy of aerial combat to fight in peace.
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How about just letting us squelch country channel??? ;)
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How would noobs ever learn if they were segregated away from the vets? It would be the blind leading the blind. (As if that isnt the way it is already) Not making any accusations here but if the "vets" would be a lil more patient with the noobs and try to teach them instead of ignoring them and looking upon them with disdain. The "problems" we have now with "gameplay differences" would be almost unnoticeable.
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A vets only arena would only serve to splinter the community, besides, I need the noobs to keep my scores up :)
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ya it was a dumb idea....
remember though "I" didn't come up with it LOL. someone who has never played the game did, though he has watched me play a few times.
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Originally posted by Dace
Not making any accusations here but if the "vets" would be a lil more patient with the noobs and try to teach them instead of ignoring them and looking upon them with disdain. The "problems" we have now with "gameplay differences" would be almost unnoticeable.
Agreed.
- oldman
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Originally posted by seabat
Your only near term solution to the nuisance is 1000 arenas for two people with near to the same philosophy of aerial combat to fight in peace.
This wouldn't work for me because I prefer to fly with at least 3 wingmen and I really like at least 11.
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Vets don't burn out, they always come back. That is what makes them vets.
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Originally posted by GooseAW
{S} for thinking out of the box! But it ain't ever gonna be what we loved about the "Ole Days".
Yep. Dave, good post and original topic. Let the "nay-sayers" yell from atop the highest mountains. They're afraid to address the problem plaguing today's game. My, my what a difference 2 years makes. Damn squeakers. :furious
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I'd much rather see a 2-5 minute time penalty for getting killed. Might make the HO, ram, suicide dweebs think twice about their tactics (or lack there of).
I do agree about all the newbs thoug. I just logged out of LWO because there was a whole host of them in there filling the text buffer with "how do I take off?" "how come my controls don't work?" "Is there any power ups in this game?" (YES I saw that one:rofl ) I couldn't stand it anymore so I logged after I told one guy to go read the help files and go to the TA and he replied back with "Why go through all that effort when I can ask you?":mad:
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Originally posted by storch
a man whose "wife would not allow him"?
Woman must be great in bed.
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I just returned to AH 3 days ago after leaving just 1 week after the split.
And i most definintly am seeing more noobish tactics than before.
Including my own :D
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OK, lots of talk about HO's here so I've got to confess.
As a 10+ year vet I still HO regularily and I'm GOOD at it. I've done it since I started but there weren't collisions then. I read somewhere early on that you should if for no other reason than to give your opponent a scare.
I'm also one of the very few players that set most of my gun convergences to 650 yards (good for both HO shots and bomber hunting and still deadly in close) and usually fly cannon equiped aircraft.
I'm just guessing but my success rate is close to 90% with 5% losses and 5% collision toss-ups.
The only time I won't take the shot is if it's a one on one merge with no other enemys nearby or if I can clearly see that my opponent is turning for the merge, not the HO. Then I'll merge clean and fight. If I'm in an outnumbered sector, in a furball or if it's after the merge I have no qualms about taking a HO shot, nor does it seem, do my opponents.
I tried for about 3-4 camps to do the valient thing, never taking a HO but 80% of all merges the other guy was firing at me. Easy enough to avoid but annoying if your trying to be a gentleman and believe it or not you can almost always see it coming.
Now I still sometimes hold fire to see what the other guy will do but if he comes straight at me and opens up he's usually just signed his death warrent. This seems to happen a few times a week and I almost always feel sorry if it's a noob who just doesn't know better (which it usually is).
Before you call me a talentless dweeb I'll fly anyone one on one. I might not win but will hopefully give a good fight.
Let the flames begin.
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Veteran arena ?
Bigger Icons (30 point high)
Slower planes
Ear aid option in the sound configuration (add +50 DB ,shift frequency of any teenager squealing voice)
New .incontinence or .preventleek dot command (pause the whole arena)
Hajo will be happy :)
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:rofl
Straffo,
thats the best suggestion so far!
:D
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Originally posted by Gumbeau
Anybody who cant avoid and turn the tables on a HO is a noob no matter how many years he has been flying.
For the record I have no issue with people HOing (well yes I do but it's the reality I have to adjust to) nor do I have any problem making the HOer pay for his lack of...."honor?" I generally regard it as a sign that this..pilot... will not turn after the merge, or will die quickly if he does turn. :D Then again, the new age of "veterans" do seem to take that shot and still give you a decent fight....but think how many great fights have been ruined before they started just because someone HOed you low and slow just after killing a couple of his countrymen. Now the holier than though crowd can say that's bad SA on my part. Maybe they'd be right. I should have upped an LA7, Spixteen, or P-fiftyrun and I could've just played the pick and run and not gotten HOed. :aok
Sorry this smacks of hijacking the thread 73.
Let's just teach the newbs how to fly and fight!! Then we can all kill in peace!
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European Theater
Pacific Theater.
In these arenas only the planes from that part of the war could enter.
Not to mention only face off against planes from sides of the war?
Kinda like a Historical Arena.
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First off, it takes two pilots to be an ACTUAL head on pass. If one is trying to avoid the potential HO, it isnt a HO anymore.
So if you say someone shot you in a HO then you just admitted your 50% guilt in creating the head on situation.
Now, if you are manuevering to avoid bandits who are flying Kodak style (point and shoot) then you are not participating in the HO and can fly with a clean conscience.
If you are maneuvering to avoid but are not successful 90% of the time then there are some basic flaws in your technique. Most of the time folks that want to maneuver away from the Instamatic Kamikaze but can't have depleted themselves to an energy state so low they no longer can successfully perform a guns defense maneuver.
That is a loss of situational awareness. Anytime you are below the energy state required for successful guns defense you better be within a few feet of the runway. Any other time you just screwed the pooch.
The most likely reason for draining energy down to this pitiful point is greed in pursuing a kill. For some reason most players feel they MUST kill each bandit they see. A much better rule is to engage from an advantage and disengage when the advantage is gone or your energy state is such that further BFM will result in an inability to perform guns defense.
Yanking and banking, bleeding energy like a madman and killing 3 of 4 bandits and letting the fourth fill your windshield with lead while you hang on to your last 2 knots of airspeed with the nose 45 degrees above the horizon doesn't mean you died in the dreaded HO. It means you hung yourself out to dry and number four was just taking in the laundry.
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Id rather have a jet arena. all jets ,all of the time.
But that is another post.
I think a vet arena would be interesting only if they limited the distance between bases so the fights could be more frequent and intense. Channel 200 would be busy with all of the wisdom and knowledge being exchanged at a blistering speed. I do believe the training arena could be promoted more as a easy way to be prepared for the fights. The new guy/gal just logs on and finds an arena and flies in it. I remember flying around for hours until I found out I was in a scenario arena by myself. I got into another arena and destroyed several cartoon planes while trying to figure out the control them. I was too proud(stupid) to ask for help. I then spent hours shooting down natedog and other names on planes circling the airfield in the offline training area.
-SR-:noid <----(some say needs a vet)
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We dont need a veterans arena we need an 0ver 30 years old arena.