Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Catalyst on January 30, 2007, 08:46:04 AM
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Hello folks...
anyone using Vista, if so, can you share some details...ex: driver trouble, graphics etc...
been using it since Nov '06, not too many problems so far, all driver issue's have been corrected...
now practicing using Voice Recognition, pretty cool up too now, speech too text and all that...
averaging 425 on RAM scale, hungry bastige, but not too bad...
soon too test AH (offline of course)...will let ya's knows:aok
Catalyst
aka SlowHand
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I should just shoot myself now and be done with it.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I should just shoot myself now and be done with it.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I should just shoot myself now and be done with it.
if that's not a cry for help, i don't know what is.
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Skuzz, I know how you feel man, but ya gotta...its your job:p
it ain't all that bad up too now Skuzz, not too many issue's.
some pretty cool stuff though....voice recon, slideshow,Flip3d etc
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You have no idea about the problems you are *going* to have. Wait until you have a run-in with DRM.
The overall poorer performance of every single application. The amount of hardware to maintain only a 10% performance loss over XP Pro is staggering.
I am already having to deal with the, "Why does Aces High II run slower under Vista?" "Does Aces High II support Vista?" Sheesh
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MOOK!
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Nvidia released a memo that admits a 20% hit on framerates using current best drivers compared to XP. And there is no quick fix coming, if at all.
Same thing with Creative, they admitted they can't build working drivers to Vista. Directsound support is gone, giving a performance hit and rendering any older Creative hardware practically useless. Sound will have occasional crackling and synch problems according to Creative.
We'll know the real grievances once it really launches. :D
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no DRM issue's whatsoever...
sorry haven't tested AH yet, soon though, will let you know if ya want, DX all that...
If ya got a good PC with nice amount of RAM all is OK, but yes I agree with ya on the performance, RAM is your friend if ya gots lots...
no issues either with Software, I'm very surprised everything works nicely...
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I've got a Creative SB 2 with NO issues at all...
maybe some old cards need to be changed, upgrade sucks sometimes, but ya'll know that right...
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I should just shoot myself now and be done with it.
:rofl now if THAT aint new sig material .....i dunno what is!!
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try and ati card and 64 bit vista ... its even worse
the Aero interface hogs up over 430 mb's of ram when its idling also ...
So for all you dweebs that dont install vista on a spare harddrive ...thats totally seperate from your current drive OS .... HA HA HA HA ... suckers ..
May the Chubb chubbs Get ya ...
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They also killed ASIO in Vista, which is what most high end audio/video packages used for sound due to the low latency.
The only way to get ASIO support is to do the XP to Vista upgrade and already have the ASIO drivers installed for XP.
None of the Audiophile sound cards will run under the native versions of Vista as Audiophile depended on either ASIO or DX Sound. Creative Labs is having a terrible time. EAX is dead in Vista. And Creative cannot get thier drivers to run well at all under Vista. This is per Creative Labs.
None of the DirectX Sound filter plug-ins for the high end audio packages will work under Vista either.
These are not bugs. These are design features of the OS. MS's TechNet forums are covered with things like this.
EDIT: You have DRM issues, you just do have run into them yet. Wait until you try to copy any HD content which has been flagged as copy protected.
Saying that Vista is all peachy-keen is just wrong. The last thing anyone needs is to be misinformed about this.
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I'm using ATI, no issue's either, apart from the hog RAM thing, but what the hell, RAM is cheap, and most new puters have 3 gig available...
RAM RAM RAM as always...
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There is no amount of RAM which will get back the lost performance. None.
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Everything I used to do under XP, I'm still doing them under Vista with no trouble...
still watching movie's(avi, xvid etc), CD's, DVD's, Burning, Torrents all that, WITH NO ISSUES...
no audio troubles at all...damn i'm practicing right now using voice recon with no trouble at all...
stop being so damn scared, its your job too resolve issues, thats why you get the mucho bucks:p
try looking at it like your almost a newbie Skuzz, cause most of your customers ARE newbie's...oh and you got no choice in the matter, say i'm wrong on this:rofl
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so hows AH work ???
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
There is no amount of RAM which will get back the lost performance. None.
its all new, give it time...
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Its not my job to fix operating system troubles. And if you spent 10 minutes at MS's TechNet site, you might get a better understanding of the problems anyone running Vista is going to have.
My job is to help people have the best experience in our game as possible. To that end, I will categorically state, running Vista will cause performance problems with the game, if you can get the game to run at all. Under some ATI drivers the game will work, under NVidia drivers, the game may not work.
Originally posted by Catalyst
its all new, give it time...
You do not get it. The sheer number of background processes and overhead dictated by DRM being imbedded in every single driver and API in the OS has raised the overhead significantly. There is no way this OS will ever be as fast as XP, on the same hardware. That is not an opinion. It is a technical reality.
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
so hows AH work ???
haven't tested yet, errr was this question for skuzz?
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Originally posted by Catalyst
haven't tested yet, errr was this question for skuzz?
well Whats taking you so long ????
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Its not my job to fix operating system troubles. And if you spent 10 minutes at MS's TechNet site, you might get a better understanding of the problems anyone running Vista is going to have.
My job is to help people have the best experience in our game as possible. To that end, I will categorically state, running Vista will cause performance problems with the game, if you can get the game to run at all. Under some ATI drivers the game will work, under NVidia drivers, the game may not work.
I'm Certified SKuzz, I always visit TechNet, but I'm not trying to fix ALL problems, just giving my experiances so far with Vista...
and maybe try to help some folks with issues...unless you prefer that I don't.
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Originally posted by Catalyst
I'm Certified SKuzz, I always visit TechNet, but I'm not trying to fix ALL problems, just giving my experiances so far with Vista...
and maybe try to help some folks with issues...unless you prefer that I don't.
well cmok ... how can ya help anyone here ...If you havent tested it with the game ??? Thats the whole point .
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I have not seen any help forthcoming. All I have seen is a 'peachy-keen' outlook for Vista, which is just wrong.
There are so many issues with various hardware and software packages, it would be irresponsible for anyone to say Vista is a-ok for the masses.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
[B
You do not get it. The sheer number of background processes and overhead dictated by DRM being imbedded in every single driver and API in the OS has raised the overhead significantly. There is no way this OS will ever be as fast as XP, on the same hardware. That is not an opinion. It is a technical reality. [/B]
yes i do 'get it' , sorry skuzz, but ya getting in too deep with tech issues which really doesn't matter to the new user...
I posted my experiances so far without trying to get into those tech issues just functionality...
never liked XP anyways, prefer 2000(but thats gonna go away:cry )
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
well cmok ... how can ya help anyone here ...If you havent tested it with the game ??? Thats the whole point .
:furious
gimme time man
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Good lord, you have to be kidding?
I have several thousand dollars worth of software rendered useless by Vista, if I install this pile-o-poop OS. I know this because some other poor schmuck already made the mistake of trying it.
This is not about tech crap. It is about functionality. If you like less performance than XP, on faster hardware, then go for it. If you want your high end audio/video software to no longer run, then go for it. That is not about tech either. It is about bang-for-the-buck.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I have not seen any help forthcoming. All I have seen is a 'peachy-keen' outlook for Vista, which is just wrong.
There are so many issues with various hardware and software packages, it would be irresponsible for anyone to say Vista is a-ok for the masses.
damn skuzz ya really got a hard on with this don't ya...
All I said is that it works FINE FOR ME, who cares about the masses, crap enough trouble at work as is, dont need the masses...
Already knew most of the issues you're mentioning, doesn't matter what you or I say, all new puters come with Vista, we got no choice friend
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This is why I will not be building another system till next year. It might take MS that long to get it all sorted out. Past history with these guys tells you that it will be about 18 months to a year before you can use their new OS. They didn't even say anything about Vista working for gamers. And it's taken this long for XP to work it's way for gamers. There are still alot of gamers still useing Win98 because of problems with XP.
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This is what happens when there is no competition
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Originally posted by Catalyst
damn skuzz ya really got a hard on with this don't ya...
All I said is that it works FINE FOR ME, who cares about the masses, crap enough trouble at work as is, dont need the masses...
Already knew most of the issues you're mentioning, doesn't matter what you or I say, all new puters come with Vista, we got no choice friend
I have to care about the masses. I support the masses all day long. I am telling everyone, if you chose to install Vista, the game will run worse than it did under XP. There is no way around that and it is not something we can change.
In one breath, you claim you want to help, then in another, you say screw everyone else. A bit of a contridiction there.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
This is what happens when there is no competition
there is competition, its sucks sorry...
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I have not seen any help forthcoming. All I have seen is a 'peachy-keen' outlook for Vista, which is just wrong.
There are so many issues with various hardware and software packages, it would be irresponsible for anyone to say Vista is a-ok for the masses.
We are the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
We are the Borg. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
We have analyzed your defensive capabilities as being unable to withstand us. If you defend yourselves, you will be punished.
Their coming to get you skuzzy...
:(
nice knowin ya
:D
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(http://ffmedia.ign.com/filmforce/image/thechubbchubbs1.jpg)
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I have to care about the masses. I support the masses all day long. I am telling everyone, if you chose to install Vista, the game will run worse than it did under XP. There is no way around that and it is not something we can change.
In one breath, you claim you want to help, then in another, you say screw everyone else. A bit of a contridiction there.
help yes to a certain degree, unlike you I don't get paid to help the masses, gettin into piss competition with you over tech issues, not really, I told you what my experiances so far have been, yet you choose to keep sayin Vista sucks because of issue A or B this and that...
at the beginning I ask folks what there experiances are and if we can share them on this here board that is ALL.
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I said Vista is a pile-o-poop, and that is from my experience. Or did you only want to hear the good things about it?
Again, I have several shelves full of very high end software which will never run under Vista. Partially due to lack of driver support (ASIO), or partially due to DRM (forget about HD editing, unless it is your own content created from scratch.).
Aces High II runs worse under Vista.
Now, none of the above is about tech babble. It is about real problems with the OS. But they are not problems, as much as they are design choices. Meaning, they will not be corrected, because they were never meant to be supported.
If you do not want the truth, then just say so, Or better yet, don't ask for experiences when you do not want to hear about them.
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Vista seems to be a solution in search of a problem. I haven't seen anything where vista is a marked improvement for the average home user and or gamer, particularly in view of the issues regarding video and sound drivers / cards.
Other than being a shill for vista, what's your issue here catalyst? It's already been stated that vista is no help for AH, you have not tried it with AH or are unwilling to so far. I can't figure out why you are trying to sell it so hard here in an arena it has no real use.
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Originally posted by Catalyst
there is competition, its sucks sorry...
well im sorry, but if i had more funding, technical support, and the ability to coad, i could make OS88 everything that i had wanted it to be.
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Originally posted by Catalyst
help yes to a certain degree, unlike you I don't get paid to help the masses, gettin into piss competition with you over tech issues, not really, I told you what my experiances so far have been, yet you choose to keep sayin Vista sucks because of issue A or B this and that...
at the beginning I ask folks what there experiances are and if we can share them on this here board that is ALL.
Your thread has NO BEARING at all. Why'd you post in the Aces High forum? You haven't run AH2 on it.
I'm sorry but I'm with Skuzzy on this. Vista is a POS. I'll be in competition with Skuzzy and other's on "who can hold out the longest."
But, you shouldn't have posted ANYTHING until you had installed AH. You knew that question would be answered and tried to skip over it, then when asked again, you tap danced. See a pattern here? We do.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I said Vista is a pile-o-poop, and that is from my experience. Or did you only want to hear the good things about it?
Again, I have several shelves full of very high end software which will never run under Vista. Partially due to lack of driver support (ASIO), or partially due to DRM (forget about HD editing, unless it is your own content created from scratch.).
Aces High II runs worse under Vista.
Now, none of the above is about tech babble. It is about real problems with the OS. But they are not problems, as much as they are design choices. Meaning, they will not be corrected, because they were never meant to be supported.
If you do not want the truth, then just say so, Or better yet, don't ask for experiences when you do not want to hear about them.
Amen Roy!
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is it just me or is happy hour coming just a bit earlier every day?
:confused:
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I will go Linux before I go Vista. :)
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Originally posted by Sandman
I will go Linux before I go Vista. :)
I also feel that Obi Wan Ken-Linux is our only hope!
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I should just shoot myself now and be done with it.
If you haven't shot yourself by now, you may as well just ante up for the long haul.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
They also killed ASIO in Vista, which is what most high end audio/video packages used for sound due to the low latency.
The only way to get ASIO support is to do the XP to Vista upgrade and already have the ASIO drivers installed for XP.
None of the Audiophile sound cards will run under the native versions of Vista as Audiophile depended on either ASIO or DX Sound. Creative Labs is having a terrible time. EAX is dead in Vista. And Creative cannot get thier drivers to run well at all under Vista. This is per Creative Labs.
None of the DirectX Sound filter plug-ins for the high end audio packages will work under Vista either.
These are not bugs. These are design features of the OS. MS's TechNet forums are covered with things like this.
EDIT: You have DRM issues, you just do have run into them yet. Wait until you try to copy any HD content which has been flagged as copy protected.
Saying that Vista is all peachy-keen is just wrong. The last thing anyone needs is to be misinformed about this.
Originally posted by Skuzzy
explaining the same thing again to deaf ears
Originally posted by Skuzzy
explaining the same thing again to deaf ears
Originally posted by Skuzzy
explaining the same thing again to deaf ears
Originally posted by Skuzzy
explaining the same thing again to deaf ears
Originally posted by Skuzzy
explaining the same thing again to deaf ears
Originally posted by Skuzzy
I said Vista is a pile-o-poop, then AGAIN explaining the same thing again to deaf ears
:rofl Skuzzy <> Man you got patience I don;t have and never will lol
I should quote your first post again, but this alone should explain why you said it
:lol :cry :D
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Originally posted by Catalyst
I've got a Creative SB 2 with NO issues at all...
maybe some old cards need to be changed, upgrade sucks sometimes, but ya'll know that right...
Try using EAX sound...Vista doesn't support it.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Toad
I also feel that Obi Wan Ken-Linux is our only hope!
Especially since within 2 years Linux will be standardized and more than competitive with Winblows. Big name computer companies are already putting out machines with Linux pre-installed. Give us a standardized Linux with all its diverse support groups focused in one group and those companies will be falling over themselves to offer cheaper computers that still have bundled software apps and outperform their Windows counterparts.
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I've been gaming with XP pro & home for at least six years & the only thing it was fubar on was certain in particular older games like Home World & Panzer Commander to name two off the top of my head, but that was the game developers fault not the OS.
Anyone who is still clinging to Windows 98 (I know a few too) needs to open their eyes & give XP a fair chance before all that is available is Vista. XP is solid & mine has been crash free & a good performer. I liked 98-SE but it doesn't hold a candle to XP imo It boggles my mind why Microslave is so intent on getting away from XP, it's their best OS since 95 came out.
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wonder y would MS would go from a pretty good OS (XP) to one that could be review in one word (Crap) Vista
maybe microsoft should change their naes to MI(Mega Idiots):noid
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Bill Gates said it cost around 6 billion to develop Vista.
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I used to love Panzer Commander. It is still a far better armor sim than the ground war in AH, even though I still enjoy the AH ground war.
How much longer you guys think XP is going to be viable?
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Originally posted by Sandman
I will go Linux before I go Vista. :)
exactly... or we could try going back to windows 3.11 :D . There are somedays I wish I could just have DOS
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Originally posted by Yeager
I used to love Panzer Commander. It is still a far better armor sim than the ground war in AH, even though I still enjoy the AH ground war.
How much longer you guys think XP is going to be viable?
I'm guessing you got about 4-5 years for XP. If you build a really good system now with all the bells and whistles. The only problem I can see is getting drivers for XP in a few years. Games will probably still be created for XP for the next couple of years. There are some things I see that still have driver support for Win2k so I would figure about 5 years, just in time for the next POS MS OS to be released
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Can you play AH on a Linux system?
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Originally posted by Catalyst
there is competition, its sucks sorry...
*whispers* Ohhh Essssss Exxxxx
If only you didn't need a Mac to use it....sigh. Stupid cute yuppy things...though my MacBook Pro is a decidedly manly machine, full of dents and scratches... In fact, one deformed corner practically oozes machismo....either that or I've compromised the battery's lithium ion cells. :confused:
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Originally posted by Elfie
Can you play AH on a Linux system?
That's what you keep your XP box for. :)
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Bill Gates said it cost around 6 billion to develop Vista.
That's nice.
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I can't figure out why you are trying to sell it so hard here in an arena it has no real use.
I'm Certified SKuzz, I always visit TechNet
Certified = Brainwashed. I see the same thing with .NET guys. Even though a lot of .NET is half baked or not there at all, these guys run around like it's gold LOLH.
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Originally posted by Yeager
I used to love Panzer Commander. It is still a far better armor sim than the ground war in AH, even though I still enjoy the AH ground war.
How much longer you guys think XP is going to be viable?
MS has stated XP Pro will be supported for 7 more years.
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Scuzzy, you're going to have to get with the times sooner or later.
Vista is the future.
Build a bridge and get over it. :aok
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The future? LOL! ROFLMBO!!!!!!!! Good one there brendo. I needed the laugh.
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:noid
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Sure Skuzzy, didn't you know? The future is a total lack of user control over any of their everyday devices. We will have Windows 2010 installed on our cars in 2013 & then you will get to be insured against crashes caused by crashes....don't even get me started on the Windows W.I.O.S. (water initiated operating system)...they're going to install that on our electric shavers in 2009 & it will hold us hostage & threaten to slit our throat if we don't let Wife 3.0 install Vista on our dusty XP machines.
:D
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So, how is AH running for anyone on MAC or LINUX? Looking like the better option for me these days.....
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
MS has stated XP Pro will be supported for 7 more years.
Heh... I'm running 64-bit XP Pro on my game system ...... "Supported" is not a word I'd use for it, by MS a little, by everyone else even less.
At least my network between the gamer and the DSL is pretty tight.
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Windows Vista blows more then Monica in the Oval Office
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If you really want to see what a absolute microsoft money grabbing scam is read this article.
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
What microsoft is trying to do is prevent you from using your computer and your accessories as you see fit. This OS will actually prevent you from displaying HD content from a HD source unless it verifies that all the components and the source material have the MS stamp of approval.
If there is a spike in your voltage or some other anomaly this OS thinks you are trying to hack it and reboots the HD display software. Heaven forbid that you actually see HD content on a Vista machine without the approval of at least 3 Hollywood studios.
This POS operating system is not about opening up your computer but about closing it off to all but select MS approved hardware suppliers. If you want to read a HD disk or see some HD content then this OS is all about preventing you from doing so unless you got the content from a MS approved source.
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Originally posted by Airscrew
I'm guessing you got about 4-5 years for XP. If you build a really good system now with all the bells and whistles. The only problem I can see is getting drivers for XP in a few years. Games will probably still be created for XP for the next couple of years. There are some things I see that still have driver support for Win2k so I would figure about 5 years, just in time for the next POS MS OS to be released
At which point the replacement for vista will likely be in the works or ready to be released. Remember xp's predecessor? (no I don't mean SE either)
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Originally posted by tedrbr
So, how is AH running for anyone on MAC or LINUX? Looking like the better option for me these days.....
You're in the wrong forum if you're looking for people that still actually fly. :rofl
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I love it when so-called techs post technical comments like "Works fine for me" LOL
The Tomshardware side-by-side with XP and Vista was a good read. The only thing Vista did better was load up time for applications.
Meanwhile, OpenGL isnt supported.
So far, from all the cNet blogs ive read, the only thing Vista has is a pretty desktop. That's it. DRM galore with interlaced video playback, if it will even READ the video you play (i.e. duped DVDs)
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Originally posted by Sandman
You're in the wrong forum if you're looking for people that still actually fly. :rofl
I guess I better leave then; I still actually fly.
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Originally posted by Toad
I guess I better leave then; I still actually fly.
Well... I'm sure there are a couple. :)
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Hey, when the fights are good, it's still an amazingly cheap thrill. They're just few and far between now.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
MS has stated XP Pro will be supported for 7 more years.
by then Bill will be the Borg and you won't even realize you have been assimilated :)
(http://www.ececs.uc.edu/~mazlack/Bill.Gatus.JPEG)
(I remember that issue :))
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It's a lost cause Skuzzy. You're always gonna have the folks who will fight you till the end saying it's great. In my experience, it's because these people were the first ones to go get it, and they'd rather argue about it's merits, than admit that they made a mistake in buying it.
You've got a long road to hoe my friend. Might as well start a sticky thread under tech support and just post, "Vista's crap, AH won't work as well, don't ask again".
Good luck, and God speed!
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OMG....I havent seen a Boardwatch magazine in years.
Oh those few years before the Internet and after....
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I didn't read this whole thread...I don't have to.
I'm pretty sure Bill Gates is the Anti-Christ.
One of the IT guys at work has Vista on his new system...now hardly anything works. Wonderful.
I think I'll stick with XP until something better comes along.
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sounds like now might be the time to make the leap from Win98SE to XP :cool:
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an article here with comparisons of games running under XP and vista which shows that for DirectX 9 gaming just as skuzzy said your gonna be getting less FPS in vista.
http://uk.gamespot.com/features/6164940/index.html?sid=6164940
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Another article on Vista,
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/23/countdown_to_windows_vista/
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I bet Catalyst's REAL name is Bill, and he lives in a BIG estate near Seattle:lol
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this place hasn't changed at all, read my first post again and please tell me where I gloat about Vista....I said I had issues, they've been corrected, I didn't ask for comparisons, I know em already...still testing stuff out
max res. 55 FPS in XP to about 38 to 40 with Vista, I'm still testing some tweaks
stick to Linux you might go up in the world 20 years from now...wait that was supposed to happen already, open source and all, still, keep the faith, chu chu train 'MIGHT' come along...
The tech issues brought up by you folks have been known for awhile, for myself anyways, yet you bring em up like you just discovered them, fools assume...
I tested MY software Skuzz, some worked some didn't, I worked em all out in the end, If yours didn't, maybe you need to work it some more, or wait till they do(soft upgrade)...but your patience is limited by your frustration with MS products...
I never said you MUST upgrade to Vista...but you'll have no choice cause of your customers.
I've tested Vista on 4 different machines, installation mostly, no tweakin too much, but now I am tweakin and it ain't all that bad, again, yes performance loss but some other stuff compensate for it, like a much better Desktop etc etc.
will I go back to XP or 2000, hmmm not sure yet, still got some more checkin to do...
oh and btw, didn't need to BUY this Vista, was on the open Beta test...
well sorry for gloating if thats what perceived, not my intention...
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Originally posted by Catalyst
I tested MY software Skuzz, some worked some didn't, I worked em all out in the end, If yours didn't, maybe you need to work it some more, or wait till they do(soft upgrade)...but your patience is limited by your frustration with MS products...
I do not believe I am taking the quote out of context. The software I own, which will not work with Vista, will never work with Vista. It is not related to any bugs with the operating system.
It is related to design considerations MS made. The reason ASIO and DirectSound are no longer supported in Vista has to do with DRM. They could not figure out how to insure DRM would be applied to those API's.
ASIO was all done outside of MS, so they had no control over it (but they did find a way to kill it), and no one at MS understands DirectSound as the engineer who designed it left MS and MS has had zero success in replacing it or coming up with anything that remotely worked better.
So, none of the software I own for doing audio/video work will ever run on Vista unless MS redesigns the OS to allow support of ASIO and DirectSound again.
The problem HD video content is in the DRM of Vista. If the entire chain of hardware in your computer (monitor, video card,...) does not have HDCP support, then Vista will decide you cannot watch HD content in HD resolution.
The upshot of that is, you can no longer edit or convert any content to HD. You cannot copy HD content to another device. These are all design choices. They are not bugs. They will not get fixed, as there is nothing to fix, as far as MS is concerned.
Anyone doing any serious audio or video editing will have to stay away from Vista if they want to continue doing that.
But the real reason to avoid it, for me. It brings absolutely nothing to the table at all. To me it is not an upgrade. It is just something different. XP is the swiss army knife, and Vista is the toothpick. You can do just about anything you want in XP, but there are many things you cannot do in Vista.
I call that a downgrade. A downgrade which forces you to buy more hardware to be able to run it at slightly slower speeds than a current XP system. Sorry, but I do not see any benefit to the consumer here.
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you can't mass market a product that needs tweaking, ordinary people want to turn it on and have it work out of the box.
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Originally posted by soda72
Their coming to get you skuzzy...
:(
Pardon my input as I am in no way a tech expert on these matters
But I think thats pretty much how Skuzzy is going to feel as he is going to have to try to convince player after player after player as to why the game doesnt run as the player thinks it should.
I think he is forseeing many many "I have a brand new mega system with all the bells and whistles. what do you mean My machine cant run AH at XXX settings???"
and plenty of people blaming him, and the game for problems in the operating system.
As for me. It looks like Im gonna haveta build my new mega system within the next few months while I can still get a copy of XP Pro. ;)
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Originally posted by Catalyst
I tested MY software Skuzz, some worked some didn't, I worked em all out in the end, If yours didn't, maybe you need to work it some more, or wait till they do(soft upgrade)...but your patience is limited by your frustration with MS products...
I've tested Vista on 4 different machines, installation mostly, no tweakin too much, but now I am tweakin and it ain't all that bad, again, yes performance loss but some other stuff compensate for it, like a much better Desktop etc etc.
You mention having to tweak it to make some software work AND having performance loss.
The problem is ALL software that worked with XP should work without having to tweak it. I didn't spend all that money on software so MS could come along and make a system that won't run it no matter how pretty the desktop is.
As far as the performance loss goes why would anyone buy it knowing it was going to be slower than XP?
I have over 3000 computers to take care of and there is no way in hell I would even consider putting this crap on any of them. No matter how pretty the desktop is.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
As for me. It looks like Im gonna haveta build my new mega system within the next few months while I can still get a copy of XP Pro. ;)
Seems like you could just go buy XP in whatever version you choose and put it on the shelf until you are ready to build. According to Skuzzy you've got 7 years or so to load it while they still support it.
Now that Vista has debuted, we'll probably see XP's price start to drop too.
Heck, in 7 years they might even have XP running really well. :)
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Actually Toad, MS will continue to support XP Pro for 7 years from yesterday. But, it will more than likely disappear from the shelves over the next 30 days, if not sooner.
It is why I bought 2 more copies of XP Pro last in December. I figure that will last until XP is dead.
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I had hoped my copy would be in today...looking like tomorrow. I'm anxious to see what breaks and what continues to work.
I often archive my favorite dvd's and video games to my hard drive...anxious to see how that goes. The software necessary to do those things are most likely suppost to be broken by Vista.
I do have faith in the anti-DRM community. If I want to rip the dvd I bought, and compress it to a divx and watch it from any pc in my house networked...I should be able to. By 'outlawing' that software because someone COULD use it for evil...is stupid. Almost anything can be used for malcontent. Should my car be taken away because someone COULD go on a rampage...or salt shakers...salt shakers COULD be used as containers of...nuclear material...ya...lets outlaw them too. Oh, and pillows! People can smother people with pillows, outlaw them!
DRM is so out of hand anymore. Starforce for PC games...*shudders*
I also hate the idea that you have to have unique keys to even play in 1v1 multiplayer in most new games. Lots of times I'll get a new game and want to play it vs my dad or something when I go to visit...but I have to have 2 keys...so frustrating. They keys are easy enough to come by but still...
Bah...end rant.
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so skuzzy... if I get a new vista machine will I be able to play AH on it or not?
AH is the only game I play... I may or may not play something else too in the future but for now... I won't buy something that won't play AH.
lazs
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its does play AH, but you get a performance loss...but remember I did my test in full visual mode( AH and desktop set to Ultimate not Basic)...not recommended to play AH in full mode...
as for ripping DVD's, I've done it successfully, torrents etc etc all work...
VISTA is just not for hardcore gamers, damn even XP is not for hardcore gamers either....2000 "is" in my opinion, but others have diff. opinions...
sorry never liked XP never will...
and yes I agree with pretty much everything Skuzzy says, too a certain degree, I prefer testing myself...
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From HP website: We are sorry to inform you that there will be no Windows Vista printer driver available for your HP product. Therefore your product will not work with Windows Vista.
If you are using the Windows Vista operating system on your computer, please consider upgrading to a newer HP product that is supported on Windows Vista.
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I never used Windows 2000 but M.E. S-U-C-K-E-D! XP is problem free & has been for me since day one, seven years ago...home & pro.
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Originally posted by lazs2
so skuzzy... if I get a new vista machine will I be able to play AH on it or not?
AH is the only game I play... I may or may not play something else too in the future but for now... I won't buy something that won't play AH.
lazs
It will be a crap shoot. I already have run into a couple of players who cannot get Aces High II to run on thier Vista machines. Both have NVidia graphics cards in them.
It looks like you will need about 4GB of RAM (if you have Aero enabled) to effectively run Aces High II near the levels of performance a 1GB XP system gets. It will still be slower than XP, regardless.
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so let me get this straight....
I can buy a new machine with the best hardware in it that is made and it will run everything slower than last years machine with xp on it and...
I may not even be able to run AH or my printers and such?
How does it do on hooking up CH controllers?
lazs
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wasn't it the same for some hardware when windows jumped from Win98 to XP?
my father in law has a scanner that does not work under XP but works fine with 98...
it is all a plot by the industry to drive you to upgrade/replace your hardware
if it isn't bloated code, it'll be drivers ... one way or another, we will never reach the point that our computers are "finished".
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Skuzzy, you are spot-on on the assessment of Vista. One of my customers' industry specific software we run will REQUIRE Vista when the new version is released in December 07.
I Did the Beta tests for Vista. I liked a lot of the desktop conveniences but there is no way that the few nice tools added should require the OS to be such a resource hog.
The company i am speaking of is notoriously cheap when it comes to spending money on hardware (Except for the magazine department - all macs there, of course) I dont mind the trouble i see ahead because I already know it will mean more money for me ultimately for troubleshooting and ultimately hardware upgrades.
I have personally found that you should be running a dual-core processor with a MINIMUM of 2 GB of ram just for it to operate at a decent clip.
As a thought Skuzzy... as harsh as the hardware requirements will be for Vista to operate I wonder if we are going to get a new XP type OS as a stop-gap like MS did with WinME when W2K was released? I am no fortune teller but with all of the celeron chips and other single core chips in use now, I can see MS actually needing to do this to help ease many of us into the next level.
I am just glad I only have a pool of 200 or so that call me for support... I dont envy you having a couple thousand. LOL
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Originally posted by lazs2
so let me get this straight....
I can buy a new machine with the best hardware in it that is made and it will run everything slower than last years machine with xp on it and...
Yes.
I may not even be able to run AH or my printers and such?
True.
How does it do on hooking up CH controllers?
No clue.
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I wonder, does MS Vista come with a jar of Vaseline? or do you have to buy that separately?
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Skuzzy, there appears to be NO support of any kind for "gameport" devices with Vista.
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Ah...yes....
Looks like VISTA will be the best thing to have happened to Mac and Open Source in years.
Think I'll take Skuzzy's lead though, and grab an extra copy of XP Pro while still available just in case.
Got 1 XP Pro laptop, 1 64-bit XP game system, and still have Win2K on the old server (sharing space with 7.2 SUSE and APACHE) .... but I think It's time for me to go back to SUSE or one of the SELinux flavors, and try my hand at a Mac Server-grade system for the network.
Nothing I hear about VISTA is encouraging.
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But, but, but...Catalysts says he's having no problems.
And he's not even suffering any performance loss.
And AHII runs beautifully.
And Vista is the bestest, most goodest, uber-est OS out there.
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Ok next question.
What is it about Vista thats "supposed" to make it so much more special and preferable then VP?
What IS MS touting it as thats "supposed" to make it great?
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Ok next question.
What is it about Vista thats "supposed" to make it so much more special and preferable then VP?
What IS MS touting it as thats "supposed" to make it great?
It's new....and shiny.... and the screen looks like a Mac....err...new and shiny.....
...and...it will make you and your data.....safer......so long as you have automatic updates running .... all..... the......time........
... and you get to replace most of your peripherals..... isn't shopping fun?
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And because its new and will have years of problems to figure out, they can charge people out the wazoo for tech support for well into the forseeable future, whereas XP is getting rather stable in comparison. They havent found a new security leak in X in months.
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Originally posted by Mightytboy
The problem is ALL software that worked with XP should work without having to tweak it. I didn't spend all that money on software so MS could come along and make a system that won't run it
May I assume you mean Vista SHOULD but does not run the said software?
if so I totally AGREE. it should, especially considering the amount of money high end video / audio / imaging editing software costs.
Originally posted by Catalyst
...yes performance loss but some other stuff compensate for it, like a much better Desktop...
if you know how to work a PC even remotely above a chimpanzee's ability I can not imagine a "better" desktop than simple Icons for what you personally choose, and is supremely easy to modify like ANY desktop since WIN98
a desktop is a place to easily start frequently used programs that provide content. it is not a place to show content in and of itself IMHO.
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"a desktop is a place to easily start frequently used programs that provide content. "
bingo. i cant remember the last time i spent more than a few seconds looking at my desktop...everything i use has both a desktop icon, and a seat on the initial start menu thingy, so once i get my browserup, its all through that.
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Originally posted by Yknurd
But, but, but...Catalysts says he's having no problems.
And he's not even suffering any performance loss.
And AHII runs beautifully.
And Vista is the bestest, most goodest, uber-est OS out there.
reread, you sound like a child...
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Originally posted by Mustaine
if you know how to work a PC even remotely above a chimpanzee's ability
a desktop is a place to easily start frequently used programs that provide content. it is not a place to show content in and of itself IMHO.
assuming again, I was giving a small example, of course its takin completely out of context to suit your chimpanzee comment...
you don't know **** about my computer knowledge, stick to what you know and never mind the assuming part...
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Originally posted by tedrbr
Ah...yes....
Looks like VISTA will be the best thing to have happened to Mac and Open Source in years.
Nothing I hear about VISTA is encouraging.
1- that has been said many times, but apart from Servers, nothing else was gained(maybe minimal gains at best)...Mac or open source
2- same was said about XP when it came out
short memory for some folks around here...I remember folks biatching about how much XP was taking alot of mem.
well some do have to test this Vista, thats what I'm doing, not just biatching about it, but actually experiancing working with it...you know, walk the walk talk the talk and all that :)
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Just heard a report on the radio talking about Vista.
Seems alot of businesses are taking the wait and see approach rather then rushing out and buying a new OS when they arent unhappy with the old one.
Not to mention from what I see most businesses do with computers they could just as easily, and just as quickly do on an old P100 and Windows 98.
There just simply isnt any need, other then to say they have it to have a new superduper machine with the latest OS on it
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ok.. if you know so much how does it do with CH controllers.. this is an AH forum ya know?
I mean... I don't really care if it makes opening spread sheets look cooler. I don't care if it runs 12 spread sheets at once better than xp does.
I also don't recall taking such a performance hit with xp when it came out... didn't xp run some things faster than 98?
lazs
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XP brought a lot of technical improvements to the operating system. Better memory management was probably the single best improvement over 98 in XP.
MS also maintained a level of backward compatibiity to 98 for a very long time. Every DirectX version, for example, had a counterpart for 98. While DirectX10 is only available in Vista. There is no technical reason for this. It is strictly done to coerce people to migrate to Vista.
Vista breaks hundreds of high end applications, by design.
And best of all, not one person has actually provide a technical reason why Vista is needed. XP was desparately needed due to the poor memory management in 98. That is something that really cannot be changed via a patch as it goes to the core of the operating system.
The only massive changes in Vista has to do with embedding DRM in every aspect of the OS.
A new desktop could have been added to XP. There already was a company who had done a Vista knock-off of the desktop for XP, but MS took care of them.
Everyone who is rooting for Vista has incredibly shallow reasons to do so. In other words, there is not a good reason to switch to this OS. There really isn't.
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Skuzzy, attempts to interject facts and common sense into the marketing side of computer operating systems are futile.:t
I'm sticking with 2000 Pro until I can't get any hardware or software to use with it any more. I guess I'll buy a copy of XP Pro pretty soon, so I can avoid the rest of the crap they're dishing out for a few years after 2000 Pro just can't be used anymore.
Best I can tell, these days computers, for personal use anyway, and for most business use, have reached the point of diminishing returns. Honestly, the new processors and 2 gigs of memory, combined with the SATA hard drives with RAID, and the recent video and sound cards, will do almost anything you could want to do on a computer within reason. From this point on, the OS will be what forces people to continually upgrade at ridiculous cost. Hardware upgrades will be forced by software upgrades that are not really upgrades. And the reverse will probably also be true. I can find much better places to spend my money.
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It took about three years for me to convert to XP..... (98 did what I wanted and what I needed)
I hope I can continue to use XP for at least twice that.....
In the end my stance with VISTA comes from the simple fact that I want to be able to do what I want on my PC, Not what they want.
But to be honest, with the amount of money M$ has to inject into development (Applications, games ect) we are going to find ourselves with no choice...
More and more hardware will "REQUIRE" Vista
More and more Applications will "REQUIRE" Vista
And one day (as someone here put it) "They will pry XP from my cold dead hands"
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Exactly. The only hope is that there will be some groups who just refuse to be assimilated.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
XP brought a lot of technical improvements to the operating system. Better memory management was probably the single best improvement over 98 in XP.
MS also maintained a level of backward compatibiity to 98 for a very long time. Every DirectX version, for example, had a counterpart for 98. While DirectX10 is only available in Vista. There is no technical reason for this. It is strictly done to coerce people to migrate to Vista.
Vista breaks hundreds of high end applications, by design.
And best of all, not one person has actually provide a technical reason why Vista is needed. XP was desparately needed due to the poor memory management in 98. That is something that really cannot be changed via a patch as it goes to the core of the operating system.
The only massive changes in Vista has to do with embedding DRM in every aspect of the OS.
A new desktop could have been added to XP. There already was a company who had done a Vista knock-off of the desktop for XP, but MS took care of them.
Everyone who is rooting for Vista has incredibly shallow reasons to do so. In other words, there is not a good reason to switch to this OS. There really isn't.
Actually you can get an awesome free desktop enhancement from crystalxp.net even today.
(http://crystalxp.net/galerie/img/th_345.jpg)
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't WinXP built on the Free-BSD kernel, or base code?
I'm more hardware and admin than code, so I really don't remember exactly, I just remember a WinXP "not-so-free-BSD" joke.
If it were not for games and the college courses I take, I'd be completely away from Windows OS on a personal level. Their vision of the future where all programs lie in on-line servers, and the customer perpetually "rents" the use of those programs, and their "blackmail" tactics for peripherals to receive Windows Compliance is over the top for me.
I'm wondering if Firefox or Thunderbird work with Vista.
I'll wait for reviews on Vista before venturing to try it myself. I'd rather spend the time, resources and effort getting reacquainted with Mac and a SELinux distro.
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One can only hope vista will go the way of Win ME and ASAP.
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The CEO of MS has already proudly proclaimed there will be many more versions of Vista/Windows coming.
Windows XP was built from the NT/2000 code base. Microsoft owns a UNIX license and they have used quite a bit of UNIX derived code in Windows. Mostly subsets of UNIX.
MrRipley, I had thought MS killed CrystalXP? Good to hear they are still around.
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ok... you guys are out of my depth here but what I need to know is...
How long do I have to wait before they realize they screwed up and start making it work with everything I need to run or... till you bright guys figure out how I can?
I was pretty surprised when I went to XP at how well and easy everything worked... course... I ran 98 for a few years into XP.
In a few years will most of the bad things be worked out?
lazs
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Skuzzy, with the DRM stuff and the inherent problems working with audio / video what do you think about using a MAC for these things?
do you think the industry and casual user will start migrating to MAC's for doing this even more now?
and the big question, would you personally ever get a MAC to do video / audio editing?
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Lazs, a lot of this stuff with Vista is design decisions at MS, not bugs at all. The performance loss is related to the design goals MS implemented. Again, not a bug.
Almost all the design goals center around DRM/HDCP, but effect everything to some degree.
XP wil lbe supported for another seven years. By then, something else will hopefully be available to replace the OS with. I cannot consider the current incarnation of Vista to be a replacement.
Mustaine, I think most of the professionals will simply stay with XP until they get Linux versions of the software. I cannot see them going back to Apple. Some may, some may not. Right now a number of studios are using Linux, so for them this is a non-issue.
I will not be buying an Apple. I cannot stand the interface. I am barely tolerant of Windows. Apple is even more constraining than Windows is as it pertains to actually being able to do what you want.
Linux would be my other personal choice for an OS.
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for Laz...
agree this is a game forum, but still, its the damn O'Club were maybe 1 or 2 people still actually fly...
as for your CH products, sorry man, I don't game much anymore, and I don't have CH products so sorry about that...
this is the way I see it...
if you got a dual-core, lots of RAM and wish to try something different(and don't mind a few bugs) try Vista, thats what I did cause of my work...really had no choice
but if you're not a computer lit. person, I recommend you avoid Vista for at least 1 or 2 years from now, there is no need for you to change...
VISTA is not for business, not yet anyways. I expect alot of negative feedback from that side of the OS distribution, too much IT dep. upgrades$$$ to do on that side, hence the roar we are gonna hear...
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Something to Consider.
Each time MS has come out with a new version of Windows it came out with much hoopla and fanfare. People were standing in line the night before the new Version of Windows was going on the shelf for sale so they could be among the first to purchase it.
Vista however came out with a whimper.......Zero fanfare and no lines eager to purchase Vista the night before. Hmmmmmm if MS decided the fanfare was unwarranted......kinda tells me they don't have much faith in the popularity of their new OS. Maybe....just maybe they know they've botched this one.
XP Pro for me for at least the next 7 years.
Unless......a better OS comes from out of nowhere.
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fluff'n M$... they always let the masses test their products cuz their sooooo anxious to make alot of money $$$$$$!!
Skuzzy knows his sh !t
Vista sux and will continue to sukk, till M$ makes a better program.
I plan on getting a new computer very soon and will not be getting the Vista upgrade.
With the new computer I'll be getting, is a NVidia graphics card a good thing to have w/ the XP?
<<>> Skuzzy & Yknurd :aok
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I installed Vista Business on my second drive a couple of days ago. Still doesn't support my aging Audigy but I like it nonetheless. I'll be replacing my sound card and then I'll likely replace XP. I give it a year, two at the most, and only the diehards will still be running XP.
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Originally posted by lukster
I installed Vista Business on my second drive a couple of days ago. Still doesn't support my aging Audigy but I like it nonetheless. I'll be replacing my sound card and then I'll likely replace XP. I give it a year, two at the most, and only the diehards will still be running XP.
Vista will lead to the fall of the western world. In two years we'll all be using Red Flag Linux. The end is nigh!
:noid
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
so hows AH work ???
Its running fine for me, but I have noticed that my Creative Audigy ZS is a little 'Tinney' sounding on vox... Only vox, not game sounds.
No issues to report. Frames are about the same as I saw on XP Pro
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Originally posted by lazs2
ok.. if you know so much how does it do with CH controllers.. this is an AH forum ya know?
I mean... I don't really care if it makes opening spread sheets look cooler. I don't care if it runs 12 spread sheets at once better than xp does.
I also don't recall taking such a performance hit with xp when it came out... didn't xp run some things faster than 98?
lazs
My CH Control Manager under XP crashes every time the system is locked..
I have the same problem with Control Manger under Vista.
Beyond that, its working fine, my CH controls are functional and behaving as they did under XP Pro.
My only problem has been with my sound card, as mentioned above.
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What about home basic? It looks to me like a modified win xp
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Home Basic lacks a lot of the tools XP has, but is essentially a stripped down XP with all the DRM and .NET drivers attached.
And Kurt, if the game is running the same for you on Vista as it did on XP, then you had a very poor installation of XP. It is technically impossible for any game to run the same under Vista as compared to XP due to the extra layers of software added to all the drivers in Vista to handle DRM.
On every clean installation comparison of XP to Vista, games run anywhere from 10% to 30% slower on Vista. I find that to be a reasonable performance degradation given all the added software layers everything has to go through in Vista.
The sound is going to be worse as MS has pulled support for DirectSound. All games using DirectSound have been routed through the Windows sound API, which is slower and sounds worse. You may even lose 3D sound positioning on some cards.
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Warning!!!!
before you try an upgrade, there's this little program called "Microsoft Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor"
run it, it will show a scale for upgrade, make a decision starting from there....
if ya get a score of 1.5 on all sections justforgetaboutit:aok
question...
How is Red Hat doing these days, is the GUI any better?
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Lazs, a lot of this stuff with Vista is design decisions at MS, not bugs at all. The performance loss is related to the design goals MS implemented. Again, not a bug.
Almost all the design goals center around DRM/HDCP, but effect everything to some degree.
Now I've never been the most uber religeous person in the world but..
" no one should be able to buy or sell save he that had the mark, the name of the beast, or the number of its name." -Revelation 13:17"
(http://www.microsoft.com/library/media/1033/office/images/pctrial/46595_400x348_008_F.gif)
Does seem to kinda fit in the direction this is headed doesnt it?
:noid
FYI my sarcasm is directed at microsoft. NOT Skuzzy
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<--------------- :D
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Nilsen, as avatars are representative of the person they are attached to. Would that mean you are bloated, slow, problematic, unreliable, and just generally irritating? :D
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You forgot buggy and has a lot of patches, its a pirate thing ya know, AAARRrrrr
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Thanks for the answers.. as a computer illiterate I always greet new OS's with trepidation.
When xp came out everyone was having some troubles here and there but someone somewhere always had a way to work around.
I don't think you are correct catalyst about only one or two people in the oclub playing ah... probly closer to 25% or more. Ah is very important to me to play and I have hundreds invested in CH controllers and I like the way they work.
USB.... Digital... windows... windows 98... XP every one of these things was greeted with some trepidation by me but... so long as I could get my mail and get on the internet and play AH.. who cared? In fact.. it got easier to set up my controllers and keep em running as the new things came out...
No more spikes no more pots... no more complex settings... I am running an AH now that wasn't even dreamed of (by me at least) 10 years ago with a lot better controllers.
This vista... it seems different tho... it seems to want to make things worse not better.. Maybe it is focus... I can't believe that they don't realize how many people use computers for games but... maybe games on computers are not where we are going.. maybe security is the most important thing.
Maybe some x box thingie will be the AH machine of the near future and my vista computer will run my email and internet? Who knows
For now... I will just stick with XP tho.
Should I buy a copy and keep it around for my next computer? Will dell and the rest sell an XP computer in the near future?
When will it be impossible to buy a computer with XP on it new?
lazs
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Nilsen, as avatars are representative of the person they are attached to. Would that mean you are bloated, slow, problematic, unreliable, and just generally irritating? :D
roflol! :rofl
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Originally posted by lazs2
Thanks for the answers.. as a computer illiterate I always greet new OS's with trepidation.
When will it be impossible to buy a computer with XP on it new?
lazs
thats actually a very smart move laz, read about it and let some time go by is just the smart way for peeps less involved in computers...
I had no choice...
I heard most new computers are coming out with the Vista package installed, as for XP, guess that will be up to the computer manufacturers, still lots of "just don't know"
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Nilsen, as avatars are representative of the person they are attached to. Would that mean you are bloated, slow, problematic, unreliable, and just generally irritating? :D
You have no idea how spot on that is :D
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Nilsen, as avatars are representative of the person they are attached to. Would that mean you are bloated, slow, problematic, unreliable, and just generally irritating? :D
Bloated = a little, but thats what happens when you add new stuff...but I tend to agree with Skuzz(little bit)
Slow = really haven't noticed that much, for me, it works just like my XP or close too it...so it all depends what ya gonna do(gaming, editing etc)
Problematic = thats to be expected with ANY new sofware, ya'll should know that...skip this nonsense
unreliable = well, up too now, since Nov'06, I just don't agree with that POV
irritating = as all new softwares are till you just get used too it, just like I felt XP was damn irritating...
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It was meant to be a bit of levity there Catalyst, but now that you have gone there.
There is $15,000.00 worth of software sitting on a shelf which will never run on Vista due to the changes MS has made. I call that problematic and irritating of a company to intentionally kill some very high end software applications.
Unreliable means you really do not know what is going to work and what is not going to work until it is too late. I already have customers who cannot play the game due to the various problems with Vista and the drivers. Yes, those will eventually get solved, but it does make it unreliable right now.
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Skuzzy or Catalyst...
if you buy a box and get force fed Vista is it going to block you from wiping the hard drive and reinstalling XP?
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Shouldn't Dichotomy. You can always ask the OEM you are buying from.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Home Basic lacks a lot of the tools XP has, but is essentially a stripped down XP with all the DRM and .NET drivers attached.
.....
Gah!! :huh What, is this supposed to pay homage to Windows ME and early versions of Lindows? That's gotta be the worst of all worlds there!
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Skuzz, With the new computer I'll be getting, is a NVidia graphics card a good thing to have w/ the XP?
Nilsen, I'd change my avatar; But I have a 1 yr. commetment to the one I have.
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I had your avatar for a few weeks but that was enough :) Did it to show my respect to 68KOs wife and kids but i never had that one year clause to it.
Back on topic.. Id very much like to try Vista Ultimate on a pc that could handle it, but i wont shell out any money on it as XP does what its supposed to do.
I just wish that MS could have made clean start and skipped things like registry and whatnot and sold it as an alternative OS and not something that was supposed to take over from XP... sorta like what apple did when they juped off OS9 to OSX and made everything from scratch.
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Have not read the whole thread so this may already have been said.
If you buy the upgrade for Vista.... it will void your XP serial so that you can no longer use your XP. So going back to XP is not an option if Vista is a problem.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Nilsen, as avatars are representative of the person they are attached to. Would that mean you are bloated, slow, problematic, unreliable, and just generally irritating? :D
Well being Norwegian one thing is clear: He like Vista is expensive.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Well being Norwegian one thing is clear: He like Vista is expensive.
Only if alot of the money goes into taxes for welfare purposes. :p
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Lazs, a lot of this stuff with Vista is design decisions at MS, not bugs at all. The performance loss is related to the design goals MS implemented. Again, not a bug.
Almost all the design goals center around DRM/HDCP, but effect everything to some degree.
XP wil lbe supported for another seven years. By then, something else will hopefully be available to replace the OS with. I cannot consider the current incarnation of Vista to be a replacement.
Mustaine, I think most of the professionals will simply stay with XP until they get Linux versions of the software. I cannot see them going back to Apple. Some may, some may not. Right now a number of studios are using Linux, so for them this is a non-issue.
I will not be buying an Apple. I cannot stand the interface. I am barely tolerant of Windows. Apple is even more constraining than Windows is as it pertains to actually being able to do what you want.
Linux would be my other personal choice for an OS.
Perhaps Hitech will make a Linux version of AH??????????????????????
Is such doable? If so I might very happily switch to Linux!
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I've installed Vista on a 2nd partition. Aces High loads correctly, but my joystick doesn't seem to work (Microsoft Sidewinder 2). In the map controls area I can see the values change as I move the stick around and it 'sees' button presses..but while in plane nothing happens.
For a clean install, the OS is incredibly "fat". Maybe it's the 'super duper prefetching' but there is an incredible amount of hard drive access (even though I have 2gb of ram). To my dismay, much of the 'user' files have changed...took me forever to find the right place to put my Thunderbird/Mozilla/iTunes application data folders from my other partition.
The interface is nice but...coming from OSX...it's just not that impressive. I see a lot of potential once 3rd party people get ahold of it...
Surprisingly, most of my programs work fine. I performed a crucial test to see if Vista would remain on my hard drive...I loaded up DosBox and played Star Trek 25th Anniversary. :) I'm a sucker for old games.
More testing to come. So far only the joystick bug, any ideas Skuzzy?
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Home Basic lacks a lot of the tools XP has, but is essentially a stripped down XP with all the DRM and .NET drivers attached.
And Kurt, if the game is running the same for you on Vista as it did on XP, then you had a very poor installation of XP. It is technically impossible for any game to run the same under Vista as compared to XP due to the extra layers of software added to all the drivers in Vista to handle DRM.
On every clean installation comparison of XP to Vista, games run anywhere from 10% to 30% slower on Vista. I find that to be a reasonable performance degradation given all the added software layers everything has to go through in Vista.
The sound is going to be worse as MS has pulled support for DirectSound. All games using DirectSound have been routed through the Windows sound API, which is slower and sounds worse. You may even lose 3D sound positioning on some cards.
I still haven't put Aces High on here yet, but if I lose game performance, then I have 2 choices, either give up AH, or reload this thing with XP LMAO. I'm still in the process of transferring stuff from the old pos to the new pos
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Originally posted by dmf
give up AH
*GASP* :O
Never! That's the only reason I put Vista on a 2nd partition...so no matter what...Aces High is safe. :)
In time, AH will be made to be all cuddly with Vista...unfortunately it's the way things are. The developers are forced to jump through Billy's hoops again and again...
I was perfectly happy with XP, but as a sysadmin I have to get as familiar with Vista as I can be, as quickly as I can.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Nilsen, as avatars are representative of the person they are attached to. Would that mean you are bloated, slow, problematic, unreliable, and just generally irritating? :D
Man Im glad I just got done swallowing my coffee before I read that one.
I hate when my coffee exits though my nose.
Particularly when its been sweetened with Irish cream :aok
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I'm guessing Vista will be a WinME type fart. A good product shouldn't inspire hate mail:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Mustaine, I think most of the professionals will simply stay with XP until they get Linux versions of the software. I cannot see them going back to Apple. Some may, some may not. Right now a number of studios are using Linux, so for them this is a non-issue.
[...]
Linux would be my other personal choice for an OS.
[...]
There is $15,000.00 worth of software sitting on a shelf which will never run on Vista due to the changes MS has made. I call that problematic and irritating of a company to intentionally kill some very high end software applications.
So I would like to ask if HTC as any long term plans for an alternate OS with Aces High...It seems many companies have relied on Microsoft systems which seems to be an unstable future and a huge risk for any business.
Linux has made alot of progress in the last several years, and I heard Google is going to take a shot at an OS.
Linux has become as simple as Microsoft products to install, and RPM's are bringing flavors like RedHat near the 'idiot proof' relam of Windows, for installing software.
I would likely never use Windows agin if AH were ported to a Linux platform. It's still not quite as userfreindly as XP, but many window managers look sleek and are full of useful GUI tools and 'wigets' by default.
It's hard to move away from a windows dominated market, but you are putting all your eggs in one basket by doing so, or so it seems to me.
So my simple question would be, is an alternate OS even in the discussion for the future of AcesHigh?
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I posted some first impressions of how AH runs under Vista in the Hardware & Software forum. I'm not gonna repeat it all here other than to say the performance with my setup was acceptable but not as good as running under XP with the same hardware.
I've had few problems. My six year old HP Photosmart P1000 will not work. HP gave the response quoted earlier that they will not be doing a Vista driver for that printer.
I intend to load up a bunch of different apps and games this weekend just to see how it handles them. So far the only thing I tried that has problems is a version of Nero's DVD/CD burning stuff. It installed and the media player part of it works. That's all I've tried. It was listed as software that was known to have problems so whatever part of it doesn't work, it will come as no suprise. The only game I've tried other that AH is Far Cry - not new but I love that game and hadn't played it awhile. With all the graphics settings at max and no tweaking of Vista it was great.
No crashes, no intense HD activity, unlike what someone else stated. No problems with any harware detection and function other than the aforementioned printer.
For the Linux guys - a couple of weeks ago I installed AH on Xandros Pro 4.1 via Codeweavers Crossover. It installed fine but when I ran it it stopped at the supported Nvidia (FX 5500 on that box) drivers and said it didn't like them - get another driver... Looked good for a few minutes!
DISCLAIMER!! None of the above should be construed in any way as an endorsement of Vista, MS, Bill Gates, the Antichrist, the benefits of global warming, Hillary in '08 or whatever else you can think of.
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Originally posted by republic
*GASP* :O
Never! That's the only reason I put Vista on a 2nd partition...so no matter what...Aces High is safe. :)
In time, AH will be made to be all cuddly with Vista...unfortunately it's the way things are. The developers are forced to jump through Billy's hoops again and again...
I was perfectly happy with XP, but as a sysadmin I have to get as familiar with Vista as I can be, as quickly as I can.
Trust me I never said I wanted to give up AH, although my life doesn't revolve around the game I do enjoy it.
As for Ah running in vista, I transfered it from my old computer to this one, and everything works, I think I might have lost about 8-12 fps, and thats all, I should be able to tweak a video setting and fix that :)
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Before anyone installs vista they should read the fine print in the user's agreement. Case in point. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6319845.stm)
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Just as an FYI (from a MS developer)... Microsoft has never come out with a windows operating system that was stable until the 3rd pass thru in it's entire history. I never touch a new version of windows until at least a year has passed and MS has a chance to find and fix some of the more hideous bugs and security holes.
Vista isn't giving me anything that I need. I use removable drive bays, so I have Win 2K Sp4, Win Xp Pro Sp2, and Win 2K3 Server setups for my machine. My Win 98SE setup finally had to be moved to another older machine since it couldn't support my new NVidia graphics card.
Don't jump on that Vista bandwagon yet - make them get it right before you buy.
EagleDNY
$.02
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The kid down the street bought a new computer like I did and wiped vista off of it and put his old copy of xp in it. He said that most of the stuff he has is running with xp, so isn't that a thought if anybody has game problems with vista? I have some fps loss using external in H2H, but over all if I use internal view only I get better fps than ever before, and thats with no video card, just the on board graphics.
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If you are getting better performance with Vista, than with XP, it is only due to you having a poor installation of XP. There is absolutely no way Vista can outperform XP.
This is a common misunderstanding. Most people have trashed installations of XP and most do not even know it. This is simply due to the ludicrous installation options MS defaulted XP to, which over time gauranteed XP to run very poorly.
Vista, by its very design, cannot run faster than XP on the same hardware, even if more RAM is installed.
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Fry's has a sale on Creative Labs x-fi cards and since Vista will not detect my aging Audigy I replaced it. Argh! Vista will not detect the new card either. Tried the usual swap to different pci slot etc... Works fine in XP. Did I say argh!!!?
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
If you are getting better performance with Vista, than with XP, it is only due to you having a poor installation of XP. There is absolutely no way Vista can outperform XP.
This is a common misunderstanding. Most people have trashed installations of XP and most do not even know it. This is simply due to the ludicrous installation options MS defaulted XP to, which over time gauranteed XP to run very poorly.
Vista, by its very design, cannot run faster than XP on the same hardware, even if more RAM is installed.
I dunno, I guess thats why you make the big bucks LOL, I wouldn't know a good install from a bad install as long as it works. And xp worked, so I never questioned it, the only thing I hated about xp that I like about vista is the recovery disk is a actual disk and not some stupid 2 disk image set :)
But as long as it works I guess I'll keep it. This thing is like a million times faster than my old computer anyway.
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Please make OS X version of AH - So I can buy MAC without hesitations.
Yeh, I know it's hopeless. :(
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Originally posted by Wes14
wonder y would MS would go from a pretty good OS (XP) to one that could be review in one word (Crap) Vista
maybe microsoft should change their naes to MI(Mega Idiots):noid
Umm, wait and see how much money vista is going to pry out of your pockets and into MS's. They know exactly what they are doing.
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Originally posted by dmf
The kid down the street bought a new computer like I did and wiped vista off of it and put his old copy of xp in it. He said that most of the stuff he has is running with xp, so isn't that a thought if anybody has game problems with vista? I have some fps loss using external in H2H, but over all if I use internal view only I get better fps than ever before, and thats with no video card, just the on board graphics.
so I guess your Vox is now fixed too
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Originally posted by bozon
Please make OS X version of AH - So I can buy MAC without hesitations.
Yeh, I know it's hopeless. :(
I remember on the General forums about a year or so ago someone else made the same request.
To the best of my recolection hightech said "IOt would be cheaper to buy every player of AH a PC then it would be to write AH for mac."
So yea...I'd say its hopeless LOL
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Originally posted by lukster
Fry's has a sale on Creative Labs x-fi cards and since Vista will not detect my aging Audigy I replaced it. Argh! Vista will not detect the new card either. Tried the usual swap to different pci slot etc... Works fine in XP. Did I say argh!!!?
I too have an old Audigy. There is a beta driver on Creative Labs website, it's working fine for me.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I remember on the General forums about a year or so ago someone else made the same request.
To the best of my recolection hightech said "IOt would be cheaper to buy every player of AH a PC then it would be to write AH for mac."
So yea...I'd say its hopeless LOL
okay:D
i need a better pc:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Irwink!
DISCLAIMER!! None of the above should be construed in any way as an endorsement of Vista, MS, Bill Gates, the Antichrist, the benefits of global warming, Hillary in '08 or whatever else you can think of.
:rofl
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Just bought my last copy of XP Pro today...
Not many left on the shelf....
:)
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
so I guess your Vox is now fixed too
Dunno yet after buying a computer and spending 3 days transferring all the stuff I had on the old one, and trying to think "do I want this file that was there when I bought it" I'm kinda not caring about hooking up a mic right now